Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[cmr2014]

17 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

The Pearls (yes, THOSE Pearls) are speaking at a retreat at the Family Camp this summer. In response to a text by a woman who said she wouldn't be attending, Austin arrogantly replied with this: 

Of course they will use the Pearl methods -- and so do Josh/Anna, Jill/Derick and Jessa/Ben -- Austin is just dumb enough to post it publicly. They all think that their parents did a great job raising them (I got beat all the time, and I turned out just fine!).

[madpsych78]

So Austin, what does abuse LOOK like to you if beating is not abuse?

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, drafan said:

Because of the bad grammar. Duh.

It really was appalling.

[Mojitogirl]

21 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

The Pearls (yes, THOSE Pearls) are speaking at a retreat at the Family Camp this summer. In response to a text by a woman who said she wouldn't be attending, Austin arrogantly replied with this: 

This is so sad. This isn’t just swatting your kid on the butt, it’s planning to beat them till they are too scared to act. I’m not a perfect parent - never, no how, no way - but the idea of PLANNING to inflict pain on my children is horrifying. I know that’s what they understand from their interpretation of the Bible, but I’m pretty sure that’s not the answer to WWJD. 

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Didn't a child die from Pearl's "training" methods? Austin's really a first-class asshole, isn't he? It's both sad and scary that these morons are about to become parents and don't recognize the difference between discipline and abuse. 

The Pearls attempt to maintain plausible deniability about the several children (mostly adoptees, and mostly from abroad, mainly Africa, I think) who've succumbed over the years. They basically deny that any of the people who did these things were actually following their precise instructions. And they say stuff on the order of, "We never said to kill anybody!"

But though their deniability is not very plausible to anybody who cares to think about the question for a minute, the Pearl devotees find it completely plausible and just go on embracing the evil pair. 

The whole ugly thing reveals so much about this whole hideous subculture, including its implicit racism, of course. 

5 hours ago, ThinkerBell said:

Neither of these two look ready to be parents. In fact, Joy's maturity level makes her better suited to be the neighbourhood kid who takes on a few babysitting gigs so she can buy a cute top and some makeup at the mall.

I think that'd be Kendra. Joy seems more likely to, oh, I don't know -- maybe save up for an assault weapon?

Edited February 3, 2018 by Churchhoney

[jcbrown]

3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

So Austin, what does abuse LOOK like to you if beating is not abuse?

Well, from MEchelle and Boob, we know that sexual abuse does not count because Jesus.

Seriously, these misguided children should not be reproducing in their evil cult.

[Fuzzysox]

Joy reminds me of any teenage girl that doesn't believe they can get pregnant first time out. I think she is left completely shocked and somewhat sad that got pregnant so fast. Now her life will be all about birthing babies. It was all fun in her head but the reality  not so much.

[Sew Sumi]

Eh, her first couple will be a novelty, but that novelty will wear thin when she has six before she's 30. 

[Barb23]

6 hours ago, ThinkerBell said:

Neither of these two look ready to be parents. In fact, Joy's maturity level makes her better suited to be the neighbourhood kid who takes on a few babysitting gigs so she can buy a cute top and some makeup at the mall.

I was watching a rerun of The Middle. Sue, almost 18 and a senior in school, was surprisingly proposed to by her  20 yr old boyfriend. She was shocked. His mother was funny & had already pulled out the family wedding gown & told Sue that she would be having babies soon after marriage. Sound familiar? She did so No at end and her list of reasons not to were the ones we name for the Duggar kidults:  "I want to go to Prom,  i want to go to college to get a job, I want to meet new friends at college, I may travel", etc. And her best reason "I'm not old enough and ready for this."

1 hour ago, Fuzzysox said:

Joy reminds me of any teenage girl that doesn't believe they can get pregnant first time out. I think she is left completely shocked and somewhat sad that got pregnant so fast. Now her life will be all about birthing babies. It was all fun in her head but the reality  not so much.

I agree. When i worked at a doctor's office, a teenage girl was giving the medical assistant a hard time whining & crying when being given the Depo Provera shot.  Finally the assustant had it & reminded her that childbirth is much more painful than a single shot. That shut her up. 

I'm predicting Joy will end up at the hospital (without any prenatal records) after complications from  a difficult home labor and/or birth with a large baby. Reality may sink in then. 

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Eh, her first couple will be a novelty, but that novelty will wear thin when she has six before she's 30. 

That's if they're rather slow in reproducing.  more like 8 or 10. 

[Sew Sumi]

53 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I was watching a rerun of The Middle. Sue, almost 18 and a senior in school, was surprisingly proposed to by her  20 yr old boyfriend. She was shocked. His mother was funny & had already pulled out the family wedding gown & told Sue that she would be having babies soon after marriage. Sound familiar? She did so No at end and her list of reasons not to were the ones we name for the Duggar kidults:  "I want to go to Prom,  i want to go to college to get a job, I want to meet new friends at college, I may travel", etc. And her best reason "I'm not old enough and ready for this."

I agree. When i worked at a doctor's office, a teenage girl was giving the medical assistant a hard time whining & crying when being given the Depo Provera shot.  Finally the assustant had it & reminded her that childbirth is much more painful than a single shot. That shut her up. 

I'm predicting Joy will end up at the hospital (without any prenatal records) after complications from  a difficult home labor and/or birth with a large baby. Reality may sink in then. 

Don't count on it. Look at her sister-mom's track record. The same sister-mom who is likely in charge of her pregnancy now. 

[DragonFaerie]

1 hour ago, Barb23 said:

I'm predicting Joy will end up at the hospital (without any prenatal records) after complications from  a difficult home labor and/or birth with a large baby. Reality may sink in then. 

I doubt it.  I'm waiting until they get the bill for the ambulance and the hospital delivery since none of them seem to have insurance.  Then maybe it'll start to sink in.   Which makes me wonder how did Jill and Derrick pay for 2 c-sections and hospital stays????

[floridamom]

Let's see....I don't recall any account of Jesus beating anyone in to submission to follow Him or believe what He had to say.....so, how do the Pearl's and the like justify what they do to their children?

[toodles]

On 2/1/2018 at 9:13 PM, Sew Sumi said:

The Pearls (yes, THOSE Pearls) are speaking at a retreat at the Family Camp this summer. In response to a text by a woman who said she wouldn't be attending, Austin arrogantly replied with this: 

This just breaks my heart.  That poor unborn baby.

Edited February 3, 2018 by toodles

[Caracoa1]

I have a sick feeling Joy has gone this entire pregnancy with no prenatal care from an actual obstetrician who is licensed to practice medicine in Arkansas.  With the Duggar Family procreating like rabbits...tragedy will eventually strike...it's just a matter of time.  I hope for a safe delivery and outcome for Joy and her baby but I have a feeling she will suffer horribly.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Caracoa1
Grammar

[Lady Edith]

Those poor kids.

Correcting a child’s behavior does not take corporal punishment to the extent these abusers take it. The “rod” is a parent’s will and training. It’s not a literal rod!  Only the weak can’t correct their children and train them to be responsible people without hurting them.  Again with these literal interpretations of the Bible.  ?

[GeeGolly]

Every time I come to this thread I find myself thinking of Joy's and her siblings' personal hygiene. I just hope that they know to shower before making blessings. Okay I said it. Now I hope the thought goes away.

[Farmfam]

Why is it so believed they have no healthcare? CHM has great maternity care for reasonable prices. My husband and I have looked into it...wouldn't they have something similar? It's more like large scale "Amish Aid". 

[GeeGolly]

We've had the insurance-no insurance discussion more than a few times. Insurance is mandatory for anyone who files taxes. I'm guessing they're insured.

[Farmfam]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

We've had the insurance-no insurance discussion more than a few times. Insurance is mandatory for anyone who files taxes. I'm guessing they're insured.

That's what I've assumed too. There are options that aren't the Marketplace. They have have insurance or CHM and still not get any prenatal care. 

[lookeyloo]

Or they think it is cheaper to pay the penalty.  I know people who do this.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, lookeyloo said:

Or they think it is cheaper to pay the penalty.  I know people who do this.

A few years ago, I was working in a public library and overheard one of our patrons, a fundamentalist Christian homeschooler with 6 children, telling one of her friends how much she and her husband paid in fines for not having insurance. It was definitely a point of pride for both of them, though I privately did wonder what they would do if they encountered a medical emergency, seeing as the husband was self-employed and was the only source of income. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Dillards were the same way. 

[lookeyloo]

Yep @Zella - the people I know aren't buying that Obamacare; they will pay the penalty.  Ask them what will happen if they get sick.  Either won't get sick (great confidence) or ER (not realizing that ER won't give them long term treatment).  I guess they will have to find out the hard way.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Yep @Zella - the people I know aren't buying that Obamacare; they will pay the penalty.  Ask them what will happen if they get sick.  Either won't get sick (great confidence) or ER (not realizing that ER won't give them long term treatment).  I guess they will have to find out the hard way.

I find it so frustrating too, especially when it's not an issue of cost. After I finished college, I spent nearly 2 years working multiple part-time jobs with no benefits. It was a struggle, but I still paid for crappy insurance the whole time because I did not want to be stuck footing a bill for, say, an emergency appendectomy. Fortunately, I didn't have any major health issues until after I got better insurance, but I just did not want to chance it. I can kind of see single people making up their mind and eating the fine because if it comes back on them, it is just on them. But for people with children, it just seems so irresponsible to me.

[Arwen Evenstar]

ACA is so much more affordable at 22 than 52. Premiums are set by age.

The Duggars and their ilk don’t seem to understand that. No doubt Boob had to buy individual insurance when he was self employed.

[Rabbittron]

6 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

Derick was still employed by Walmart when Jill had Izzy, so that was probably somewhat covered. For Sam, though, it's doubtful they had any insurance and it seems like Sam also needed a NICU stay, which is not cheap. 

NICU Medicaid automatically to babies who have been in there .

[Farmfam]

Ok thanks for the insight on insurance! I live in an area thats very conservative, mostly evangelical Christians. I haven't heard of anyone taking the penalty, so this is a new perspective for me! 

 

Long story short- my (self employed) husband had minor outpatient surgery last March and we maxed out his part of our deductible and I was diagnosed in May with a benign brain tumor that needed surgery. Maxed out my deductive too...we had looked into other alternatives to healthcare because of the outrageous ACA premiums. So glad we didn't go with something else. My surgery and hospital stay alone was well into the $400,000 range...and I'm in my early 30s, no other heath problems to date. (Besides a high risk pregnancy. Baby had issues/ health problems, not me!) I couldn't imagine taking the risk, even without children. 

[Heathen]

On 2/2/2018 at 4:19 PM, riverblue22 said:

That is one dreary home.  Maybe if they have a girl a bunch of pink stuff with brighten it up.

NOOOOOO! No girls born to Duggars or Duggarlings ever again, except the Vuolos. 

[Loves2Dance]

On 2/2/2018 at 11:38 AM, BitterApple said:

Didn't a child die from Pearl's "training" methods? Austin's really a first-class asshole, isn't he? It's both sad and scary that these morons are about to become parents and don't recognize the difference between discipline and abuse. 

More than one. 

It's depressing to know this child will be abused for the sake of the Bible all before they're even born. Sigh. 

[Absolom]

21 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

NICU Medicaid automatically to babies who have been in there .

This is a story that goes around a lot.  It's only the babies who meet the disability standards who qualify.

[Loves2Dance]

On 1/15/2018 at 7:06 PM, Spencer Hastings said:

1. Austin looks like one of the douchebags from my days as an educational assistant in a behavior support classroom.  He’s totally the kid who would turn on the charm for the lead teacher and his girlfriend’s parents but in reality is a borderline sociopath.

2. Joy, you are carrying his child.  You are sacrificing your little teenaged body for the heir to his Jesus throne.  He is giving and sacrificing because it’s his duty as your husband to do so. Or you know, as a decent human being.  I wonder what he is giving her?  Food and shelter? Attention?

Joy reminds me of my friends who praise their husbands for babysitting their own kid or changing a couple of diapers.  I once had a friend who posted a sappy Facebook post because her husband was thoughtful enough to pack a healthy breakfast for her—a vine of grapes and a granola bar.  I lost my everloving mind on that one. 

#winning 

[Caracoa1]

If the Married Duggers have no income then there is no need to file a tax return....no fine for not having insurance.  Or possibly Boob pays any medical bills.

[cmr2014]

I 100% believe that none of them (except Derick) have health insurance. He had insurance at WalMart, and he mentioned the cost of health insurance when he was grifting for his "mission." Given his experience with his mother, and the fact that it is probably considered normal in his family, I think he has some form of insurance.

For the rest, though, health insurance is just so against everything that they talk about (let God decide!). JB is so cheap that I can't imagine him being okay with anything that he might put $1 more in than what he received back in services. JB might have had insurance on J'chelle when she was of child-bearing age since he would have gotten more back in services than he would have paid in premiums, but there was never any indication that the children were insured, or received and well-child care. JB specifically mentioned taking one child to the doctor when they were sick and then getting the medicine for all of the children.

All of the adult men are "self-employed" and it's expensive to get insurance when you're self-employed. I think that ALL of the Duggars would go in for recreational abortions before they signed on to any program with "Obama" in the name. They receive in "salary" what JB chooses to give them, and I doubt that there is enough for insurance.

I think that's (at least part of) the reason that both Jill and Jessa waited until the 11th hour to go to the emergency room when they experienced complications. 

[GeeGolly]

Paying fines on not having insurance only works if you don't seek medical care often. ER visits are costly. Even with insurance having a baby is costly with some plans. I believe they're insured, even if through the Christian plan many posters have mentioned.

Michelle had most of her 19 kids in the hospital. They're insured somehow.

Edited February 4, 2018 by GeeGolly

[Catlyn]

As for the Pearls, why do these "Christians" keep going back to the old Testament? Supposedly, that covenant was broken when they accepted Jesus. 

 

Also, who is the Duggar son with hair in the picture?

[Barb23]

1 hour ago, Loves2Dance said:

More than one. 

It's depressing to know this child will be abused for the sake of the Bible all before they're even born. Sigh. 

I remember seeing on 20/20  or Dateline a long time ago about the kids that were suffocated in a sleeping bag thing. I think the person in charge was trying to get the devil out of the kids as they were misbehaving children.  I don't think this group was the Pearls but another wacky religious group. Does anyone else recall this? How did the children die under the Pearl' s rules?

[Absolom]

46 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

but there was never any indication that the children were insured, or received and well-child care.

At one point early in the history of the specials and the shows, Jim Bob said that he carried a family plan because with as many children as they had it would be foolish not to carry insurance.

[Mollie]

On 2/2/2018 at 6:38 PM, BitterApple said:

Didn't a child die from Pearl's "training" methods? Austin's really a first-class asshole, isn't he? It's both sad and scary that these morons are about to become parents and don't recognize the difference between discipline and abuse. 

"The content of Pearl's book has been cited as advocating child abuse and its teachings were linked to the deaths of Sean Paddock, Lydia Schatz, and Hana Grace-Rose Williams. In all three cases the parents were homeschooling their children and are believed to have read Pearl's book. Michael Ramsey, a Butte County, California District Attorney who prosecuted the Schatz case, investigated the Pearls' teachings and called To Train Up A Child, 'an extraordinarily dangerous book for those who take it literally. It's truly an evil book,' he said. Dr. Frances Chalmers, the pediatrician who examined Hana's death, said 'My fear is that this book, while perhaps well intended, could easily be misinterpreted and could lead to what I consider significant abuse.'

"The parents of Hana Grace-Rose Williams, Larry and Carri Williams, were found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to 28 and 37 years in jail, respectively.

"A witness in the trial reported that the Williamses followed the book's recommendations 'to use a switch, cold baths, withhold food and force children outside in cold weather as punishment,' all of which were used on Hana before her death."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pearl

[queenanne]

19 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I remember seeing on 20/20  or Dateline a long time ago about the kids that were suffocated in a sleeping bag thing. I think the person in charge was trying to get the devil out of the kids as they were misbehaving children.  I don't think this group was the Pearls but another wacky religious group. Does anyone else recall this? How did the children die under the Pearl' s rules?

Because it's here, I think:

The authors advise beginning a child's training when he or she is 'under one year old'.

The purpose of this beating is to 'condition the child's mind' and make them surrender completely to their parents' authority.

'If you have to sit on him to spank him then do not hesitate,' says the book. 'And hold him there until he is surrendered. . . Defeat him totally.'

(Bolding mine).  The "sleeping bag" thing is an outcropping of the restraint inherent in the "if you have to sit on him" quote, IIRC.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2522770/Inside-extreme-child-rearing-guide-advocates-whipping-children-belts-branches---linked-deaths-seven-years.html

[Loves2Dance]

29 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I remember seeing on 20/20  or Dateline a long time ago about the kids that were suffocated in a sleeping bag thing. I think the person in charge was trying to get the devil out of the kids as they were misbehaving children.  I don't think this group was the Pearls but another wacky religious group. Does anyone else recall this? How did the children die under the Pearl' s rules?

That also sounds like rebirthing which is basically outlawed, but still practiced. It's supposed to treat RAD, but has caused deaths and really does nothing to help RAD kiddos. 

30 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I remember seeing on 20/20  or Dateline a long time ago about the kids that were suffocated in a sleeping bag thing. I think the person in charge was trying to get the devil out of the kids as they were misbehaving children.  I don't think this group was the Pearls but another wacky religious group. Does anyone else recall this? How did the children die under the Pearl' s rules?

Here is another article. I am horrible about multi-quoting, my apologies. 

https://www.babble.com/mom/to-train-up-a-child-teaches-punishment-that-kills-kids/

[Ohiopirate02]

57 minutes ago, Catlyn said:

As for the Pearls, why do these "Christians" keep going back to the old Testament? Supposedly, that covenant was broken when they accepted Jesus. 

 

Also, who is the Duggar son with hair in the picture?

I've noticed that these "Christians" tend to focus on the Old Testament and skip right onto Paul with their cherrypicking of the bible.  

[Temperance]

I like blogger Libby Anne and she has done several posts on Michael Pearl. You can read it if you want to know more, but it is graphic and discusses abuse done to children.

20 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I've noticed that these "Christians" tend to focus on the Old Testament and skip right onto Paul with their cherrypicking of the bible.  

If I could like this 100 times, I would. 

In season 5 of Archer,  Ray (who used to be a preacher) says during an argument about the bible "I can't say for sure, because my church didn't really do the new testament".

I didn't get that line the first time I heard, but I do now. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Temperance

[irisheyes]

1 hour ago, PoshSprinkles said:

That only applies for babies that are there long-term (30 days+, like Josie Duggar). Full-term NICU babies like Sam usually don't stay long, thus they don't qualify for automatic or secondary medicaid (if you have insurance) unless they have special needs. There are other programs available on a state-by-state basis to help defray NICU costs, but I have no idea what programs Arkansas has. 

Yep, my son was in the NICU for hypoglycemia for three days. I (and my insurance company) had to foot that bill. 

I doubt we’ll know if Joy has any serious problems. The Duggars have become masters at subterfuge. The only way they’ll say anything if it’s a major complication requiring an extensive hospital stay that they can get a VSE out of, or if, God forbid, one of them dies. (Which I am NOT wishing on either of them, even if they do plan to be terrible parents)

[PikaScrewChu]

On 2/2/2018 at 11:38 AM, BitterApple said:

Didn't a child die from Pearl's "training" methods? Austin's really a first-class asshole, isn't he? It's both sad and scary that these morons are about to become parents and don't recognize the difference between discipline and abuse. 

I'm pretty sure they'll be farming out the "parenting" duties to one of the Lost Girls while they continue to make an army for Jesus. Joyless Joy strikes me as the type that will be overwhelmed with a baby from the get-go. Austin also seems like the type that would make the entire situation worse.

[dargosmydaddy]

4 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I'm pretty sure they'll be farming out the "parenting" duties to one of the Lost Girls

Presumably Jenni, since she was on Team Jill with Joy...

[Sew Sumi]

I don't see Austin doing much to help Joy with the baby at all. If it's a boy, he'll take some interest once it is old enough to impart strict gender roles with toys and behavior.

IOW, another deadbeat who will make Ben look like a super dad. 

[PikaScrewChu]

Austin will probably bark at Joy to make the baby stop doing this, stop doing that. Ugh.

[HELPME]

Austin scares me.  I don't know exactly why.  He has shifty eyes, as my grandmother would say.

on another note, I work in healthcare, and a lot of "selfpay" patients are given charity care, and the hospital uses it as write offs.  If an uninsured Duggar came to the ER, they very likely would not get billed. 

[GeeGolly]

Many hospitals do forgive bills, the first time. Most won't hesitate to send the bills to collection for frequent flyers though.

[doodlebug]

12 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

NICU Medicaid automatically to babies who have been in there .

No, only for extremely premature babies and certain congenital birth defects.  Virtually all hospitals provide ‘rating’ for people without insurance, though. They take a look at income and assets and give discounted or free care based on that.  Derick and Jill don’t own a home and their TLC income stream ended before Samuel’s birth. They may well have gotten all thei hospital care for free.

if you’re not insured and end up in the hospital, ask to see a social worker or go down to the business office and ask. Them that don’t ask, don’t get.

Edited February 4, 2018 by doodlebug