Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Marigold]

32 minutes ago, LilJen said:

 

Yes, this happens all the time! And yes, one big cause of birth injuries is a baby not getting out quick enough, so to speak (lack of oxygen, usually). Seems like this stuff happens plenty often (my kid's heart rate kept slowing to nearly nothing; they couldn't figure out what was wrong but they knew if that kept happening there would be problems so they did a c-section).

 

My first child was a 10 pounder. Scanned smaller. 

He got stuck and the OB broke his arm to get him out of my pelvis.  Two dislocated hips also. I was torn to shreds. I posted this a few pages back. A top NYC hospital and a good OB.  It happens.  I believe with my entire heart and soul that if I was in a crappy hospital with a less skilled OB, my son would've been very damaged. 

He is 19, a good student and 6'6". 

Jill fucking labored at home with a big baby, for 40 hours, hoping for a VBAC  in her living room??????  IS SHE FUCKING CRAZY??????????????????

I'm a large baby mama, a survivor of a rough vaginal birth and a subsequent multiple C-section mama. Jill is reckless. 

[McManda]

IF they hadn't posted it online and IF they everyone didn't do it for every occasion, Jinger and Jeremy's congrats video makes sense, given they live out of state. Someone like Jessa posing a video is dumb considering she was likely around when Jill was laboring and probably has seen at least Jill and Derek since the birth.

I do think it's telling that the Vuolo's haven't rushed to Arkansas:

1- Samuel and Jill are likely fine (at least, Jill didn't have life-threatening childbirth injuries), and 

2- Jinger has disassociated herself from the family enough to be comfortable saying "eh, a baby, cool, see you when we see you". I admire that, but for a family that worships infants it's gotta sting that Jinger doesn't care as much as they do.

Edited July 10, 2017 by McManda
spelling is hard

[saylubee]

13 minutes ago, Annabel11 said:

Poor crying baby. He should be skin to skin and being comforted as he begins life not held up like a trophy screaming for someone to help him and being ignored. Poor thing. 

He may not be allowed to be picked up.  I wasn't allowed to hold my daughter for roughly the first 48 hours in NICU.  The cords were too delicate and monitoring too serious.  Her dad was able to hold her into a quasi-sitting position to give her a bottle with the assistance of nurses.  That was the only contact she could have.  It killed me.  

[Genevrier]

1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

Sorry, skipped some posts :)

My son had that weight and lenght when he was one month old..

My daughter had that weight when she was ten months old!

As in everything with children, there's a lot of variation. 

[asuwur]

We are all making some awful (yet fully possible) assumptions.  Do we know for sure she was working for a homebirth for 40 hours before Mullet sang into the 911 operators ear (ala,"Mother is bleeeeeeding") or are we working off the safe bet?

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, asuwur said:

We are all making some awful (yet fully possible) assumptions.  Do we know for sure she was working for a homebirth for 40 hours before Mullet sang into the 911 operators ear (ala,"Mother is bleeeeeeding") or arhe we working off the safe bet?

We don't, but it's a fairly safe assumption given that Jill was hell bent on doing a vbac. It'll be interesting to see what the "official" story is once the People spread comes out.

[Fostersmom]

2 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I took a special ed class in college, and the professor said that once she went and looked up her students' medical files...and every single one of them had some sort of traumatic birth!  Every. Single. One. Just a few minutes of trauma can deprive a kid of oxygen and damage it forever. People in the past who had traumatic births usually didn't live through them, but today they have to live with horrible disabilities. If Jill has a kid like this where the situation could have been easily prevented, it will make me so mad!

I have 2 special ed degrees and I've never once heard something along those lines. I'd throw a massive side eye to any professor who claimed they had access to a child's medical record from birth. That is not something a school has or can get access to without consent. Going by that theory, your professor had access to your medical records. I was taught there is an increasing number of students with severe disabilities due to constant medical advancements, children who would have died 5, 10, 20 years ago are living when they wouldn't have in the past. 

 

1 hour ago, truthtalk2014 said:

Oh, and the photo a few pages back of IZ in the little carseat (with a new price tag BTW) was Jill's attempt at making him look as cute as Spurg did in the baby swing.  Not going to happen.  Spurg is a happy baby.  I am hoping that Jill and Derelict made up a special index card with a  bible verse about jealousy for this delivery.  They are going to need it after Jessa's delivery.  

Izzy is probably still using his, so the baby would need a new one. It seems most car seats go birth to fucking 16 years old these days and they just keep transforming into something new. Its pretty much illegal for anyone to accept used ones for consignment or donation so it's garage sales or hand me downs or new. God knows no one the know doesn't have plans for one they might have. You can't even try to give them to Salvation Army or Goodwill. 

[88Keys]

50 minutes ago, asuwur said:

We are all making some awful (yet fully possible) assumptions.  Do we know for sure she was working for a homebirth for 40 hours before Mullet sang into the 911 operators ear (ala,"Mother is bleeeeeeding") or are we working off the safe bet?

Thank you.  The amount of assumptions and mommy-shaming on this and Jessa's threads makes me really uncomfortable.

[Annb67]

53 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

We don't, but it's a fairly safe assumption given that Jill was hell bent on doing a vbac. It'll be interesting to see what the "official" story is once the People spread comes out.

Well I can't imagine a hospital or doctor allowing a 40 hour labor for a VBAC.

[Jellybeans]

Does anyone think Jill had a hysterectomy?

[Mojitogirl]

I empathize with Jill's probable disappointment at having a 2nd C-section. My main source of anxiety as my first delivery approached was that I would have a csection and not be able to have all the kids I wanted. For her, where having an extremely large family is defining of her as a person, and as (her type) a Christian, this has to be a very bitter pill to swallow. I hope she has support and someone who knows her well enough that that, if she's exhibiting symptoms of post partum depression, will ensure that she gets help. 

[ariel]

Pass go, collect big bucks from People Mag for giving birth or getting married, rinse & repeat.  

[PradaKitty]

It's entirely that Jill has had a hysterectomy.  If so,, that  is really going to send her into s tailspin...

[Minivanessa]

21 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Does anyone think Jill had a hysterectomy?

I don't. I mean, Derick's a weird eejit, but I don't think that he would have posted on social media that mother and baby are fine if Jill had a hysterectomy. And he posted that mother and baby are doing fine, or doing well, or similar words.

[RazzleberryPie]

Why would Jill have needed a hysterectomy?

[Jellybeans]

Because she had complications.  You can be fine without your uterus.

[sheshark]

I just think Jill is an idiot to put herself and Samuel in danger.  Plus the pain, for someone who freaked out about giving blood or having teeth pulled.  I had an emergency C-Section after 12 hours of water-broken hard back labor, the baby was breech and doctor knew it but she could not be turned.  I was the dope who stayed home for 12 hours thinking she would turn.  I was rushed into surgery, and had a perfect baby girl.  But the pain and exhaustion took quite awhile to go away.  Next baby, I was to be given a trial of labor for VBAC, but the ultrasound showed placenta previa.  A scheduled section with no labor, and I felt 100 times better.  I had no problem regaining my energy.  She really is a fool.

[doodlebug]

48 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Why would Jill have needed a hysterectomy?

Due to complications in her delivery, complications we don't even know she experienced.  I think it is highly unlikely that she needed a hysterectomy.  Antibiotics?  For sure, 100%.  Blood transfusion?  Maybe.  Hysterectomy?  Very uncommon.  I've practiced OB for 35 years, delivered 8000 kids and never done a peripartum hysterectomy.

As for the speculation that birth trauma is responsible for the majority of intellectual/developmental disabilities seen in children; there is ample evidence that it is not the case.  There are multiple ongoing longitudinal studies of kids who had difficult deliveries and the vast majority of them have no such problems.  The causes of these disabilities are many and varied and most are not due to birth trauma.

The instructor who claimed that she had personally investigated the childbirth histories of all the disabled children in her care and discovered that every single one was caused by a birth injury is a liar.  A complete and total fiction.

As for Rosemary Kennedy and the cause of her disability; there is no evidence that delaying pushing causes this problem.  Not saying that she might not have experienced a lack of oxygen at some point during the delivery process, just that I doubt it was due to the circumstances described.

I don't mind speculating based on information we've actually received (ie the birth announcement and photos), but I feel like things have gotten pretty far afield here.

Edited July 10, 2017 by doodlebug

[Jellybeans]

Thanks doodlebug!

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, asuwur said:

We are all making some awful (yet fully possible) assumptions.  Do we know for sure she was working for a homebirth for 40 hours before Mullet sang into the 911 operators ear (ala,"Mother is bleeeeeeding") or are we working off the safe bet?

For me, the "40 hour labor" for an attempted VBAC at home is just really poor judgment. I have a hard time believing that a hospital would allow that.  40 hours of labor is a lot with a previous vaginal! With a VBAC?  Yikes!!!!!!!  The picture of Samuel all wired up makes us think the poor guy had a rough delivery. 

I can draw on my own experience, which is very similar to JIll's and from life experience.  

I feel that Jill has exhibited poor judgment in the past and her "midwife", that Fedosky woman had her license taken away.  All these things don't add up to a good scenario. 

[bigskygirl]

Rosemary Kennedy had a serious form of depression, not a developmental disability. She acted out because she was in a lot of mental and physical pain due to no proper diagnosis and treatment. Her father thought she was an embarrassment to the family and decided lobotomy would get her under control. The sad fact she ended up with the mind set of a child after she was sent to the one doctor due to the fact her father was more concerned about the family name. Does this sound familiar? The Duggar clan including Derick are in deep denial when it comes to the safety and well being of Jill and Samuel. The idea of getting proper treatment and exams while pregnant is a foreign concept to these people. The sad thing is if someone was seriously wrong with Samuel the whole clan would use it to spread their anti-abortion spiel to the universe just like they did with using Josie as a prop. Makes me angry, sad and sick at the same time.

[Temperance]

Rosemary Kennedy, was as far as I know mentally challenged, and not merely depressed. 

[Absolom]

12 minutes ago, Marigold said:

hat Fedosky woman had her license taken away.  All these things don't add up to a good scenario. 

Theresa Fedosky doesn't appear to have ever obtained a midwifery license in AR.  She held her apprentice paperwork for a couple of years.  Venessa Giron was the midwife Jill apprenticed with who lost her license before Israel came along.  She apparently has moved to Oklahoma.

[bigskygirl]

http://www.newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/Rosemary-Kennedy/2008/06/17/id/324146/

Like I said, the Kennedys especially the father was in denial and labeled her as a trouble maker and loser instead of getting the treatment she needed. The sad thing is the Duggars especially JB plays by the same rules. Denial, embarrassment to the family name, and no proper treatment and diagnosis. Jill and Derick do the same thing when it comes to the health and well being of their own children.

[GeeGolly]

I've read a few books about the Kennedys and one that was focused on Rosemary. From everything they describe I'm guessing Rosemary was on the Autism spectrum, closer to what most would describe, until recently, as Asperger's. They often mentioned the delayed delivery when discussing her problems but no definitive diagnosis or reason has ever been given as far as I know.

Edited July 10, 2017 by GeeGolly

[leighdear]

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I really hope that tomorrow we see the People exclusive story and exclusive photos, with Jill holding Samuel and both of them recovered/recovering from the birth trauma drama. 

I really hope that I never EVER.EVER.EVER. see another Dugger face on any magazine cover again.  But I hope they're both ok. 

[bigskygirl]

I may not like Jill and Derick at all, but I do wish the best for Izzy and Sammy because they should not be paying the price for their parent's mistakes.

[Jellybeans]

I hope Jill and her new son are doing well.

[sleepysuzy]

I had a 44 hour labor for my second vbac, with midwives in a hospital.  The baby was 11 lbs. I did not have GD, and I had great prenatal care. All four of my children have been large. The neonatologist who saw them all said that some women just have a genetic propensity to have large babies.

Also, all of my children spent time in the NICU, ranging from 5 days to four weeks. None of them were premature,  their problems were not caused by mode of delivery, and nothing could have been done to prevent their complications, all of which were breathing related. I had people literally messaging me while I was in the hospital suggesting that my children's problems were caused by everything from vaccines to undiagnosed gd to lack of invasive prenatal testing. Truly appalling.  

 I don't agree with the Duggars  on much, but I hope that Jill and Sammy recover quickly. 

[Ljohnson1987]

I think we got a video of Izzy the day after birth. I hope Jill and Sam are okay. Please stop putting yourself and your children at risk, One of you will lose your life. 

[BitterApple]

I've been watching the Duggars since 14 & Pregnant Again, and given their track record of ignorance, recklessness, cheapness and disdain for all things science, I don't feel mean for assuming Jill did something colossally stupid with regards to this delivery. Logic and common sense just isn't in her nature. If it turns out she labored 40 hours in the hospital with a CNM at her side, I will eat crow and post an apology. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by BitterApple

[answerphone]

I hate to say this, but I am surprised the Duggars allow a newborn to be photographed without being covered by a little shirt or swaddled. "Baby Nike" ?

[Christina87]

I thought that was interesting about Rosemary Kennedy, so I did some research, and several sources do say that she could never do schoolwork beyond a fourth-grade level. She probably had a learning disability that they didn't know how to treat back then. Whether it was caused by the birth or not is anyone's guess. She reverted to a two-year-old's brain after the lobotomy. 

Anyway, @BitterApple I agree with you about Jill. There is really no reason we have to think she used good judgment. This is the girl who thought it was a good idea to post pictures of her swaddled son freaking out, and asked us to pray for her seasonal allergies before people who were getting murdered. She and Derick regularly show a serious lack of judgment, more so than any other duggar. They also fully believe that their dogma is always 100% correct, so I'm betting they would do anything to increase the likelihood of having 10+ kids over doing the sensible thing and go to a hospital. 

[Pinke]

On 2017-07-09 at 0:19 AM, Lunera said:

I wonder if they'll pass her laboring at home during the birth episode or just pass the hospital parts. She's gonna get judged severely if she did try birthing a 10lb baby with a shitty midwife. It'll also show she had no medical advice beforehand because any professional would have advised her against a VBAC.

That would imply listening and taking into account a professional opinion, but this is Jill we're talking about. Evil science and doctors are only right when she absolutely needs them to be.

[lianau]

14 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

They claim they leave the number of children they have up to God, so what if he decides on just 3?

Well, God is wrong then  and needs to change his opinion  about this very important fact .

[GeeGolly]

We have no idea how Jill's labor went or how Sammy's delivery was other than, "40 hours of labor and a c-section" and then a picture of Sammy with a host of medical interventions. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Duggars would do themselves a favor at this point to just tell it like it is. The show is called Counting On, it focuses on the births of their children. They should either say - This was a difficult birth for both Jill & Samuel, please respect our privacy at this time - or share the details. Having one foot it privacy and the other foot in publicity breeds speculation.

Edited July 10, 2017 by GeeGolly

[sATL]

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Due dates are calculated from the first day of your last period. You don't even need to do math because there are a zillion websites and tons of apps for that (not like before where nurses and OBs used a sliding wheel). From what I understand with the accuracy of pregnancy tests and the availability of prenatal vitamins OBs don't even schedule first visits until 8 weeks these days. Back in my day 1st visits were scheduled around the 6th week and the initial visit included a pregnancy test and if I'm remembering correctly prenatal vitamins were by prescription.

I thought prenatal vitamins are available over the counter now - like in large supply at places like Sams/Costo ? Granted they might not be as "strong" as the ones you get via a script, but they can tide you over while you wait until the first OB appt. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by sATL

[sATL]

13 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Speaking of c-sections, my neighbour (who is also a nurse) had 4, and they said she shouldn't get pregnant again, too high risk. Even the 4th was riskier.

Someone mentioned the Kennedy Family a few post back. Didn't Ethel Kennedy have all (or most) of her 11 kiddos via c-sect? Or is true or  just a bad rumor?

[Snow Fairy]

The number of c-sections probably depends on a woman, her body, uterus, medical condition. But if it was me, I wouldn't want to risk it just to have xy children

[floridamom]

Although Meredith's birth wasn't a spectacle, for obvious reasons, we know just about all there was to know about Anna's other labors and deliveries. She received no privacy whatsoever. It's telling to me how the Duggar daughters received so much privacy about theirs.

Since this family accepts a great deal of money FOR PUTTING THE EVENTS OF THEIR LIVES OUT THERE, they should release information about major life events they experience too. They should release the truth and all of the truth to keep the speculation away. After all, they can't have it both ways. Izzy's road to being born is still sketchy to me. They aired a heavily chopped up episode about that, if I remember. Time to earn that paycheck, Dillards. Come forward with the facts here. Jill needs to be accountable for her decisions and actions about Samuel. Everyone really cares about these children and we hope that they will be well. No one wants anything tragic to happen to Jill, either. We are all human.

[Nysha]

17 hours ago, JoanArc said:

That might be a good long term outcome...but she'd hate Sammy forever. I'm thinking we'd see a funeral for the uterus, and all the kids Jill wouldn't be having.

1

At least he and Israel will be on equal footing for their childhood experiences. And, if she has to stop at 2, it will be easier for Grandma Cathy to have extended visits and give them the love and quality attention that Jill & Derick can't even provide for 1 kid.

"...all the kids Jill wouldn't be having"  - This made me laugh & think of Meri, from Sister Wives, who had to have the biggest house even though she only had one child because of all the babies she meant/wanted to have.

[tabloidlover]

People does have a new Duggar story up this morning, but it's nothing to do with the Dillards.   Something about Austin's anxious moments before proposing to Joy. 

Something isn't right.  I think Jill is having a rough recovery.  I hope and pray that Samuel is ok.

[Whyyouneedaname]

On 7/8/2017 at 7:48 PM, Sew Sumi said:

Something didn't go right (?), given all the monitoring that Sammy is undergoing. 

probably fetal distress if she labored for 40 hrs. I labored for about 12 then had to have emergency section because of that, was in the hospital the whole time & the minute they detected distress away we went. He ended up in NICU for about 12 hours because of fluid in his lungs, scary time for all of us, he's a healthy young man now, but  why would you intentionally put yourself and baby in danger?  So many things can go wrong.

[Annb67]

28 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

People does have a new Duggar story up this morning, but it's nothing to do with the Dillards.   Something about Austin's anxious moments before proposing to Joy. 

Something isn't right.  I think Jill is having a rough recovery.  I hope and pray that Samuel is ok.

Well I hope Samuel is ok. I also hope that if Jill is able to have more kids she got the crap scared out of her and will actually be responsible with her prenatal care and births. As in...Have them in a damn hospital! 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Annb67

[Jellybeans]

I agree, something is off.  I hope Jill is ok.  I think Sam's fine.  Hope she will be happy with two sons.  Many couples struggle to have ONE.

[toodles]

I'm the mother of GWB.  My son was 8.8lbs.  He was born with pneumonia and some stomach issues.  I had great prenatal care, but I also had the flu (and a two year old) for about 3 weeks prior to delivery.  Did that cause the pneumonia?  Who knows.  I had to beg my Dr. to look at my ears after he finished with my bottom half.  He couldn't give me anything because I was too close to delivery.

My GWB is 35 and 6'5".  He was in the hospital for six days after his birth and he was the biggest baby in the nursery.  It was a really scary time. 

My point is sometimes things happen with a new baby.  We don't know why little Sammy is in the Nicu.  However the dullards ended up in a hospital, Sammy ended up where he needs to be. All of us worried about idiot Jill and her baby.  At the end of the day, Jill and her baby received the PROFESSIONAL medical attention they needed.  Will she learn from this experience?  Oh hell no.  It's not in her DNA.  

Anyway, I wish little Sammy all the best.  If he turns out to be half the sweet, wonderful man that my GWB is, Jill will be truly blessed.

[AUgirl]

12 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Like I said, the Kennedys especially the father was in denial and labeled her as a trouble maker and loser instead of getting the treatment she needed.

I just finished a book on this: Rosemary had significant learning delays starting in elementary school.  Unfortunately at that time learning problems, austism, and how to educate people with these was in its infancy. Rose Kennedy tried everything to help her.  Joe wasn't much help and wantd a quick fix (he thought the ill-advised lobotomy would be a miracle cure).  Rosemary responded well in a Montessori school setting, but had to leave it due to World War II.  However, all this was carefully hidden from the public.

On topic: I could see the Duggars keeping anything not "perfect" from the public, vaguely glossing over "learning problems", etc.  I could also see a "problem" Duggar disappearing from the public.

[Guest]

I was only 6 something pounds and I ended up 5'9, I asked my mother how long I was yesterday but she didn't remember. Probably somewhere around 15-19 inches?

[QuinnInND]

Holy crap that's a huge baby. I had twins 14 months ago, and together they didn't weigh that much! Yikes!! Hopefully he will be OK. Jill and Derick are playing with fire here, but are too stupid to realize it. 

[BitterApple]

Regarding Jill, I think she's probably doing fine in the physical sense, but mentally I don't think she's doing well at all. She was already talking VBAC when the doctor was stitching her up from Izzy. She seemed disappointed to find out she was having a boy and likely just had another failed homebirth. She was also probably told at the hospital that pumping out fifteen Giant White Babies for Christ isn't going to happen. Since getting married, nothing in Jill's life has gone her way and I think she's going to become a seething powder keg of resentment.