Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[GeeGolly]

12 minutes ago, quarks said:

1. We don't know how narrow Jill's testimony might or might not be. Bobye Holt's testimony was fairly broad. 

2. But if she testifies - and we don't know that she will - any testimony related to whether or not Josh molested her is going to have to include an explanation of what Josh did. She can't just say, "Yep, he molested me," full stop. She has to explain what he did so that the jury can determine whether or not this was molestation and if this was the sort of molestation that might indicate a propensity for downloading CSA material - thus increasing the chances that he'll be found guilty and punished for that crime.

3. We do know that she will be facing her predator. She'll be in the witness stand. He'll be at the defense table.

4. We also know that she is a plaintiff in the civil case that starts up in less than two weeks, with the same presiding judge, and that as a plaintiff, she will probably have to testify about the effects of the In Touch article on her - but without facing Josh, who is the entire reason why In Touch had anything to report in the first place.

And if Jill has unresolved trauma do you think the points you bring up will empower Jill?

[CountryGirl]

While it will not be remotely easy for Jill to testify, given the circumstances, I think there could be something very empowering for her to face her abuser (molester is somehow too light a word IMO) and look him in the eye and go on the legal record as to what he did.

I never got the chance as my abuser died when I was still in my teens. But I wish I had been afforded the opportunity. It would have been very healing for me. 

[cmr2014]

27 minutes ago, quarks said:

1. We don't know how narrow Jill's testimony might or might not be. Bobye Holt's testimony was fairly broad. 

2. But if she testifies - and we don't know that she will - any testimony related to whether or not Josh molested her is going to have to include an explanation of what Josh did. She can't just say, "Yep, he molested me," full stop. She has to explain what he did so that the jury can determine whether or not this was molestation and if this was the sort of molestation that might indicate a propensity for downloading CSA material - thus increasing the chances that he'll be found guilty and punished for that crime.

3. We do know that she will be facing her predator. She'll be in the witness stand. He'll be at the defense table.

4. We also know that she is a plaintiff in the civil case that starts up in less than two weeks, with the same presiding judge, and that as a plaintiff, she will probably have to testify about the effects of the In Touch article on her - but without facing Josh, who is the entire reason why In Touch had anything to report in the first place.

 

 

I think it's very likely -- or almost certain -- that JB has made every effort to prep Jill's testimony.

Even if he's been expressly forbidden to do so by the judge, or warned to stay away by the defense lawyers. JB is way too controlling to allow Jill to appear as a witness without scripting her story (as told to him by Jesus). I would also bet that he's dangled a whole host of prizes in front of her: return to unsupervised visits to the TTH, cars, money, etc.

[SMama]

8 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think it's very likely -- or almost certain -- that JB has made every effort to prep Jill's testimony.

Even if he's been expressly forbidden to do so by the judge, or warned to stay away by the defense lawyers. JB is way too controlling to allow Jill to appear as a witness without scripting her story (as told to him by Jesus). I would also bet that he's dangled a whole host of prizes in front of her: return to unsupervised visits to the TTH, cars, money, etc.

Jill has Derick, Cathy, Amy, and Deanna as emotional support. I seriously doubt JB will get anywhere near Jill, she won’t permit it. Then there’s that pesky witness tampering thing. We tend to give JB powers he’s never possessed. He did get bitch slapped by the judge yesterday. Some people were predicting JB was running the defense. He is an insignificant, ignorant, arrogant nobody.

Edited December 2, 2021 by SMama

[CouchTater]

16 minutes ago, SMama said:

Jill has Derick, Cathy, Amy, and Deanna as emotional support. I seriously doubt JB will get anywhere near Jill, she won’t permit it. Then there’s that pesky jury tampering thing. We tend to give JB powers he’s never possessed. He did get bitch slapped by the judge yesterday. Some people were predicting JB was running the defense. He is an insignificant, ignorant, arrogant nobody.

I hope Deanna is serving in a role that aunties serve in my family.  Many of them were like 2nd mothers to me, and I serve in that role to some of my nieces currently.  I'm sure Jill could use some motherly love, support, and wisdom right now, and Lord knows she isn't receiving from her actual...you know...mother.  Ugh.

[Boston]

16 hours ago, Trillium said:

Jill dyed her hair today. I’m glad she did something nice for herself. 

Good for HER!

[quarks]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

And if Jill has unresolved trauma do you think the points you bring up will empower Jill?

This is shifting the goalposts, since that wasn't the argument I was making or the argument I was responding to.

But since the goalposts have been shifted, rather than retyping my points yet again, I'll instead note that thanks to her terrible parents and Arkansas law, this is the first time Jill has had a chance to face her predator in court, and ask this:

How empowering or traumatizing will it be for Jill if she doesn't testify - and Josh is found not guilty, and released back into society?

[quarks]

I do want to add that regardless of whether Jill has unresolved trauma/PTSD or not, this situation has got to suck massively for her, and she does have all my sympathy here for what is not going to be a fun few weeks.

 

 

[Nysha]

17 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

She needs to cut 2 feet off to complete the look.  Then she would look great.

I think the length is fine. She has cut it much shorter, so she knows what it looks like on her and apparently prefers the longer hair. This length is really popular, not just with fundy xtians, but with a lot of SM personalities and even young women attending my college. 

[CountryGirl]

11 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I think the length is fine. She has cut it much shorter, so she knows what it looks like on her and apparently prefers the longer hair. This length is really popular, not just with fundy xtians, but with a lot of SM personalities and even young women attending my college. 

Agreed. My hair is the same length and I'm in my mid-40s. It's the longest it's been since I was a teenager and I absolutely love it. And this is said with someone who's had everything from a pixie to hair so long I could sit on it.

It's so easy and versatile - ponytails, messy buns, a cute braid, or letting it air dry with a slight wave or air dry with a braid or bun overnight and get more waves come the morning. So long as the hair is well-cared-for (trimmed as needed, conditioned, etc.), which Jill's hair in these "after" photos appears to me, it can be as long as the wearer prefers. 

Not all of us want a bob or lob haircut after all and Jill is clearly thrilled with her hair. And hers is the only opinion that really matters in the end.

[Suzn]

I have to add my two cents.  Jill's hair just looks messy to me and the color makes her complexion look florid - and there is that big gummy smile.

Most important of all, Jill is the same old Jill and no matter what she does superficially, she remains the same.  She gets lots of praise for the superficial changes.

[Nysha]

I think Jill's 'big gummy smile' is beautiful because it is genuine and lights up her face. Besides, what the hell is she supposed to do about it? Never smile? Stitch the skin below her bottom lip to her gum line so it doesn't offend people?

As for Jill's changes, I don't think all of them are superficial. While Jill's religious beliefs haven't changed, many of her personal beliefs have such as public school is evil, anyone not of her family or faith is evil, non-xtian media content is evil, therapy equals the sin of not trusting God...

[CountryGirl]

8 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I think Jill's 'big gummy smile' is beautiful because it is genuine and lights up her face. Besides, what the hell is she supposed to do about it? Never smile? Stitch the skin below her bottom lip to her gum line so it doesn't offend people?

As for Jill's changes, I don't think all of them are superficial. While Jill's religious beliefs haven't changed, many of her personal beliefs have such as public school is evil, anyone not of her family or faith is evil, non-xtian media content is evil, therapy equals the sin of not trusting God...

Yes, to all of this. Does Jill have some problematic beliefs and viewpoints? Of course. No one is disputing that.

But to look at the environment in which she came from, in which women and children, particularly female children, were to be seen and not heard, where abuse of all kinds was swept under the rug, never to be spoken of again, where anyone with a penis was always in the right, and everything from the color and length of one's hair, one's attire, one's ability to spend time alone with someone not blood-related to them, one's right to get a decent education, I think she has made some incredible strides, most especially with her sending Izzy to public school so he can get a proper education, knowing he will be exposed to all different points of view and perspectives, and even her willingness to venture outside of what was browbeaten into her head was her "box." 

For someone who has been treated like she was for most of her entire life - and she is still treated like crap by her FOO (family of original origin), including Jim-Boob's recent "testimony" that has basically handwaved her and her sisters abuse and (thank you, judge, for calling his selective absence of memory not credible!) - I don't see a lot of her changes as superficial in the slightest and not having lived in her shoes, save being a fellow survivor of CSA, I'm not about to dismiss progress as anything but. 

[Suzn]

As I said, lots of praise...  I hope this doesn't become a place where criticism is squelched.

[CountryGirl]

Civil disagreement is not criticism being squelched. 

[Kiss my mutt]

I’d love to see a tape of Jessa standing in front of the bathroom mirror pointing to herself saying “I’m the pretty one, but I’m the pretty one” after seeing Jill’s picture. 
 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Kiss my mutt

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’d love to see a tape of Jessa standing in front of the bathroom mirror pointing to herself saying “I’m the pretty one, but I’m the pretty one” after seeing Jill’s picture. 
 

 

Haha, Jessa was the HOT one. Emphasis on WAS. 😁

[Gemma Violet]

Jill posted this video of her new hair on her Instagram.  I think it's significant that she chose the song It's Magic.  Aren't the Duggars (and many fundies) against anything being considered "magic?"  Maybe this is another FU to JB. 😊

https://www.instagram.com/p/CW83WG4t2qC/

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

This is shifting the goalposts, since that wasn't the argument I was making or the argument I was responding to.

But since the goalposts have been shifted, rather than retyping my points yet again, I'll instead note that thanks to her terrible parents and Arkansas law, this is the first time Jill has had a chance to face her predator in court, and ask this:

How empowering or traumatizing will it be for Jill if she doesn't testify - and Josh is found not guilty, and released back into society?

This is from my original post -

With that said, if Jill does have any residual or compartmentalized feelings from the molestations, testifying has the potential to cause more harm than good. Being a witness in this trial to say yes, Josh molested me and my sisters is not putting Jill in control of her narrative. Jill will not be asked any questions on how the molestations affected her or her sisters. She will only be asked if it happened.

This is from my follow-up post -

As far as control of her narrative, your right she has none now. But it has been speculated that by testifying Jill will then be in control. That her testimony will be a powerful and therapeutic move. Its my opinion, if Jill does have unresolved trauma, her testimony will possibly open a place she's not ready to open. She could experience emotional flooding/shock.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Haha, Jessa was the HOT one. Emphasis on WAS. 😁

Well, maybe she was the “hot” one in her own mind…

[SnapHappy]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

As I said, lots of praise...  I hope this doesn't become a place where criticism is squelched.

Those of us who don't think Jill has changed her true nature, simply her public, documented behavior, aren't going anywhere.  And will continue to politely say what we think.  

True personal evolution takes a lot longer than the time Jill's been wearing jeans and had a nose ring.  If Derrick wanted Israel out of public school, he'd be gone.  If Derrick wanted to move to Oklahoma, they'd be gone.  If Derrick wanted her to dye her hair pink, get a buzz cut and a tattoo of The Rock on her ass, that's what she'd do. 

She continues to do what she's told.  By whatever man is there to take charge.  

[ranchgirl]

54 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Jill posted this video of her new hair on her Instagram.  I think it's significant that she chose the song It's Magic.  Aren't the Duggars (and many fundies) against anything being considered "magic?"  Maybe this is another FU to JB. 😊

https://www.instagram.com/p/CW83WG4t2qC/

I noticed and thought the same thing.  I wondered if she asked her hair stylist for song recommendations. 

[NoThyme]

I am a lurker and trying to understand what in the world is happening right now. I was always a bit jealous that there were so many siblings and some of them appeared to be so close, something I do not have in my life. am I to understand that at this time Jill does not have a relationship with any of her siblings? No matter how crazy I think the family is if true that must be hard. Does she have a relationship with her parents or have they just basically disowned her? Why is she the only sister on the witness list, anyone have any idea? 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, NoThyme said:

I am a lurker and trying to understand what in the world is happening right now. I was always a bit jealous that there were so many siblings and some of them appeared to be so close, something I do not have in my life. am I to understand that at this time Jill does not have a relationship with any of her siblings? No matter how crazy I think the family is if true that must be hard. Does she have a relationship with her parents or have they just basically disowned her? Why is she the only sister on the witness list, anyone have any idea? 

Unfortunately we all have ideas on what happened, but they vary widely. The truth is, no one knows anything other than JB is pissed at Derick and Derick was/is pissed at JB.

Jill has been seen with all her sisters, here and there, over the last few years. She has also been seen with Michelle and some SsIL. Her buddy brother (James?) seems close to both of them. I have no idea about the other brothers.

[Nysha]

13 minutes ago, NoThyme said:

am I to understand that at this time Jill does not have a relationship with any of her siblings? No matter how crazy I think the family is if true that must be hard. Does she have a relationship with her parents or have they just basically disowned her? Why is she the only sister on the witness list, anyone have any idea? 

It's hard to tell what kind of relationship she has with her siblings b/c none of them tell the whole truth about anything. What we do know is she is not allowed to be at the TTH unless JB is present, she hasn't shown in picture evidence that she's seen her father in several years or her mother since last spring (I think), but she has been present at her siblings recent weddings. She is also close enough to Jessa that Jessa requested her presence as she was laboring with Fern Ivy.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Nysha
To name the correct baby.

[CountryGirl]

I think the nose-ring, the different hairstyles, the jeans, the two-piece bathing suit, et al, are Jill's decisions as I doubt that Derrick would care all that much, either way. And I think Izzy going to public school was a joint decision. Obviously, none of us will ever know for certain but I don't see Derrick dictating her hair or fashion choices anymore than most husbands who aren't controlling Jim-Boobs would.

For me, one of the biggest tells was when I watched some of their more recent videos and how it is Jill doing most of the talking, not Derrick, and no adoring headship zombie stare AND!!! a number of occasions where she interrupted him, not disrespectfully or anything, but just to interject her points. Just like any other married couple. It's the seemingly small non-physical things like that that give me more insight into how Jill has grown than any of the other physical changes. 

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, Nysha said:

It's hard to tell what kind of relationship she has with her siblings b/c none of them tell the whole truth about anything. What we do know is she is not allowed to be at the TTH unless JB is present, she hasn't shown in picture evidence that she's seen her father in several years or her mother since last spring (I think), but she has been present at her siblings recent weddings. She is also close enough to Jessa that Jessa requested her presence as she was laboring with Fern.

No, that was Ivy's labor. Jessa had Fern in a hospital. 

[Gemma Violet]

25 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

 

For me, one of the biggest tells was when I watched some of their more recent videos and how it is Jill doing most of the talking, not Derrick, and no adoring headship zombie stare AND!!! a number of occasions where she interrupted him, not disrespectfully or anything, but just to interject her points. Just like any other married couple. It's the seemingly small non-physical things like that that give me more insight into how Jill has grown than any of the other physical changes. 

Yes!  I was just about to make this point.  It's noticeable how Jill leads the question-answer sessions and Derick simply sits there and lets her do 75-80% of the talking.   No way would that happen with JB/Michelle.  And, can you imagine Jeremy sitting quietly while Jinger speaks?  Jinger can't say three words without him interrupting her.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Gemma Violet

[Panopticon]

Derick: Jill, while you're getting your hair colored, I'm going to make sure I have a commuter cup to match my new tie.

(I think they both look great. Good for them.)

[CalicoKitty]

He actually looks good.  Has anyone heard about any plans to retake the bar?  Or if he is working somewhere?  I would doubt he is getting very much study time right now.  I wish the best to them.  This can't be an easy time.

[BigBingerBro]

Deertick is certainly serving a power-lawyer vibe....

[sixlets]

As much as I loathe Derick, I truly believe he's been Jill's biggest cheerleader and will be vital in helping her heal.  He also has a perspective none of the Duggars have from going to law school.  While this side of law was not his chosen area, he has some knowledge of what will occur.  Regardless of what changes Jill has made (or hasn't made), she is still a victim of her parents and brother.  

[wait.what]

Maybe Jill testifying is empowering her. 
Maybe being able to say what happened to her and her sisters WASN’T normal or common and have others validate her pain will give her power. 
Maybe being able to say in public to people who believe how it actually happened, not what her parents/cult told her what happened will give her power. 
Maybe the mere fact that HER testimony will assist in a guilty verdict of a pedophile (I know he’s not being tried for pedophilia) and will prevent her abuser from abusing other children will make her feel power. 
Maybe dyeing her hair and piercing her nose makes her feel power. 

I support Jill. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that Jill or any other Duggar sister DESERVED to be abused, simply because they might hold some prejudiced beliefs. It's less "blame the victim" but "I don't like the victim anyway so I don't care." That is not how abuse works -- abuse victims are not perfect people, and sometimes have gaping flaws and problems. The J'slaves could be the worst people in the world and they did not deserve to be abused by their brother and then ignored by their parents.

As long as the conversation becomes "oh she's fundie so I'm sure she didn't mind" I'm going to respectfully disagree because that's veering dangerously close to "blame the victim."

[Absolom]

I think one of the biggest changes Jill has made is rarely acknowledged or maybe it isn't fully understood.  She left the IFB and Gothard systems and is now in a mainline although still conservative denomination.  The difference between those two is a definite division in theology.  Basically it's from a cult or near cult to mainline religion. Although people may disagree with conservative beliefs overall, she made a leap.  

[Lady Whistleup]

5 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Those of us who don't think Jill has changed her true nature, simply her public, documented behavior, aren't going anywhere.  And will continue to politely say what we think.  

True personal evolution takes a lot longer than the time Jill's been wearing jeans and had a nose ring.  If Derrick wanted Israel out of public school, he'd be gone.  If Derrick wanted to move to Oklahoma, they'd be gone.  If Derrick wanted her to dye her hair pink, get a buzz cut and a tattoo of The Rock on her ass, that's what she'd do. 

She continues to do what she's told.  By whatever man is there to take charge.  

So you think it's okay she was abused because she thought that was her role?

Edited December 2, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[mynextmistake]

14 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think it's very likely -- or almost certain -- that JB has made every effort to prep Jill's testimony.

Even if he's been expressly forbidden to do so by the judge, or warned to stay away by the defense lawyers. JB is way too controlling to allow Jill to appear as a witness without scripting her story (as told to him by Jesus). I would also bet that he's dangled a whole host of prizes in front of her: return to unsupervised visits to the TTH, cars, money, etc.

If Jill is on the prosecution’s witness list, it is because they have met with her, probably several times, and know exactly what she is going to say. There is no way a federal prosecutor is going to call an unprepared witness at trial. If they had concerns about JB’s influence on her, those would have been addressed in pretrial meetings and the consequences of untruthful testimony would have been explained to Jill. I’m sure Derick has also discussed her obligation to testify truthfully with her at length — as someone who presumably has hopes of becoming a licensed attorney, he can’t afford to be married to a perjurer. I don’t think Jill is willing to risk her liberty, her marriage, and her reputation for the promise of family monopoly nights and frito pie. 

More importantly, I think that Jill has reached a place that none of her sisters have. I think she now understands that, no matter what JB and Michelle said about Jesus and forgiveness and whatever, what Josh did to her and her sisters was WRONG. I think she knows that downloading CSAM is wrong too. I think that Jill has a moral compass, and while it might be calibrated differently from mine, I think it does matter to her. I don’t think Jill wants to testify. I think it’s going to be very hard for her. But if she has to do it, I think she’s going to tell the truth, because that’s the right thing to do, and I think there’s nothing JB can offer her that’s going to change that. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by mynextmistake

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, Suzn said:

As I said, lots of praise...  I hope this doesn't become a place where criticism is squelched.

No one is squelching any criticism here IMHO.

9 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

Well, maybe she was the “hot” one in her own mind…

Ha! I was just about to write the exact same thing.

[SnapHappy]

9 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

So you think it's okay she was abused because she thought that was her role?

Never.  And it's a GIGANTIC stretch to take that meaning from what I wrote.  

 

 

[Minivanessa]

9 hours ago, Absolom said:

I think one of the biggest changes Jill has made is rarely acknowledged or maybe it isn't fully understood.  She left the IFB and Gothard systems and is now in a mainline although still conservative denomination.  The difference between those two is a definite division in theology.  Basically it's from a cult or near cult to mainline religion. Although people may disagree with conservative beliefs overall, she made a leap.  

^^This. Wish I could "like" it more than once. I have a busload (seriously, they could probably fill one) of cousins in a state next door to Arkansas, who are almost all Southern Baptists. Some of them are more devout than others but they are all out in mainstream lives, from big cities through small towns and even still a few living on farms. Almost everyone has at least one college degree; there are [active or retired] nurses [male and female], social workers, teachers, bankers, farmers, small biz owners, and oh yeah one CPA (and SHE's a married mother of two). They don't live apart from their neighbors, dress strangely, or shun the world. These are, I'm sure, the kind of people Derick grew up with in his neighborhood, public schools, and church.

I've always thought that while he was sitting at his laptop in Nepal getting acquainted with JB and then Jill, Derick projected onto Jill the attributes he'd observed in his contemporaries at church. Young women who lived mainstream lives, went out shopping alone or with friends, held jobs, dated, got educations, weren't sequestered onto a family compound where they were taught to despise and fear the big bad outside world. Of course, Jill's life experience was quite different from the lives those young women led.

Jill has indeed made a leap. A leap in religion and a leap into a much more mainstream kind of life.

[GeeGolly]

For me what is frustrating in this thread, more than others, is when shit gets real. Like this court case.  All the speculation is fun, most of the snark is hilarious and all the different lenses are so interesting, but when they're applied to real situations as fact, it feels much less fun to me.

No one knows what Jill is thinking. No one knows if Jill still loves Josh but is devastated that he has serious issues. No one knows if Jill has had open communication with her family about testifying. No one knows if she was traumatized by the molestations. When push comes to shove, we don't know a lot.

Like Derick's behavior in court yesterday was very surprising to me. It seems he was being more than cordial in a public place, because he certainly could have avoided contact with Josh and Anna. I'm guessing he could have sat on the other side if he wanted to. But he didn't. The big question is, why?

I would love for Jill to be on solid ground, with her eyes wide open, ready to take on her brother and feel confident and powerful. But I would also understand if that's not where she's at. If she's not there, acknowledging it isn't an insult to Jill, its an observation. There is no wrong way for Jill to feel about Josh or this court case. So, IMO, hating Josh and wanting to "get justice" is not a given in regard to Jill (or her sisters).

[CountryGirl]

Would that be tea in your cup, Derrick?

[Minivanessa]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Like Derick's behavior in court yesterday was very surprising to me. It seems he was being more than cordial in a public place, because he certainly could have avoided contact with Josh and Anna.

I like your whole post, but want to address that. I've read descriptions that when returning to the courtroom after a break Anna and Josh came up to Derick, and Josh held out his hand. Under those circs I wouldn't find it puzzling if Derick's response, perhaps automatic, would be to accept the handshake. Derick's just out of law school and I suspect he'd be more than usually circumspect in his behavior in a courtroom even while court was in recess. If he were inclined to freeze out Josh (at a minimum) or make some kind of scene, IMO he wouldn't act like that there. 

If Derick sought out Josh to be all friendly? Yeah, that would puzzle me too.

[Trillium]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Like Derick's behavior in court yesterday was very surprising to me. It seems he was being more than cordial in a public place, because he certainly could have avoided contact with Josh and Anna. I'm guessing he could have sat on the other side if he wanted to. But he didn't. The big question is, why?

 

There might not be another side of the courtroom to sit on. I was on a jury and that particular court room didn’t have the traditional two sides with an aisle down the middle. Up front there were a prosecution table and a defense table, but the gallery behind was just single rows of long benches. And with COVID they seem to be limiting numbers and seating may be restricted. He’s technically family of the defendant, so it may or less be his options for where to sit are limited. None of us really know, so I’m not reading anything into it either way. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Trillium

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Jeeves said:

I like your whole post, but want to address that. I've read descriptions that when returning to the courtroom after a break Anna and Josh came up to Derick, and Josh held out his hand. Under those circs I wouldn't find it puzzling if Derick's response, perhaps automatic, would be to accept the handshake. Derick's just out of law school and I suspect he'd be more than usually circumspect in his behavior in a courtroom even while court was in recess. If he were inclined to freeze out Josh (at a minimum) or make some kind of scene, IMO he wouldn't act like that there. 

If Derick sought out Josh to be all friendly? Yeah, that would puzzle me too.

I agree, but I feel less sure about Derick being unable to make himself unavailable for a handshake from Josh. And as smarmy and arrogant that Josh is, I don't seeing him approaching the 'enemy' for a handshake. Folks like Josh and JB don't like rejection and are pretty savvy at heading it off in the pass.

[Suzn]

10 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

So you think it's okay she was abused because she thought that was her role?

That post does not say anything of the kind.

[CountryGirl]

My understanding is that there is one family section in the courtroom and that Derek was sitting there, alone, when Anna came up to him. While I am sure he hates SexPest with the fire of a thousand suns, I would be willing to believe he views Anna as another victim. As far as the interaction with Josh, what was he supposed to do? Hit him or yell at him? That is not going to happen because if he made any sort of scene, he could jeopardize being in that courtroom for his wife when she testifies. There have even been occasions where outbursts in the gallery have been grounds for a mistrial as they can be seen as being influential or even prejudicial on the jury. 

I'm not reading anything into his brief interaction with SexPest either for the same reasons and we have all had occasions in our own lives where we've been cordial with individuals, problematic family members included, wanting to avoid a scene. 

Derek's number one reason for being there is to support his wife and he's going to conduct himself with that goal in mind. 

ETA: He was also seen talking briefly to SexPest's defense team and I highly doubt that was so he could lend them his newly-acquired knowledge but to get a little bit of a feel for them.

ETA2: He also put his head down when they were showing the obviously graphic CSAM and I can only imagine that he was thinking of Jill as a little girl and the abuse she suffered.

[skatelady]

6 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

If Jill is on the prosecution’s witness list, it is because they have met with her, probably several times, and know exactly what she is going to say....... I don’t think Jill is willing to risk her liberty, her marriage, and her reputation for the promise of family monopoly nights and frito pie. 

 

Whoa. WHOA. Back the f*** up.

Frito pie is a thing? Whaaaaat?

Edited December 2, 2021 by skatelady

[MargeGunderson]

11 minutes ago, skatelady said:

Whoa. WHOA. Back the f*** up.

Frito pie is a thing? Whaaaaat?

It is, and it is delicious (especially made with Trader Joe’s Corn Dippers, which are bigger and thicker than regular Fritos). 

Count me with the people that are puzzled that Derick attended the trial yesterday. I’m assuming that he can’t tell Jill anything now, since she is on the witness list, but perhaps I’m wrong.

[CountryGirl]

I think Derek went to get the lay of the land ahead of time so even if he is not at liberty to discuss anything with Jill since she is a witness, he's not going in cold and has some time to process the obviously horrific proceedings so he can put on a supportive front for Jill. This has probably been stated in other threads but Austin was also there yesterday and he sat in the very back row of the family section, ignoring everyone, Derek included.