Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Patriarchy aside I don't think Michelle would stand for that.  I think she'd stay in control of finances and the TTH.  I expect there would be a lot of rebellion if Josh tried. 

Until both parents are gone, the point is kinda moot.  Whichever parent dies first, the other will step in and handle the finances and very little will be distributed to the kids until after he/she dies.  At that point, I would not be surprised to discover that Josh is made executor of the estate and has quite a bit of control over how the assets are distributed and no doubt will keep the best for himself.  JB and M are too invested in their patriarchal faith to let someone step ahead of their firstborn.

[Albanyguy]

6 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Until both parents are gone, the point is kinda moot.  Whichever parent dies first, the other will step in and handle the finances and very little will be distributed to the kids until after he/she dies. 

I also suspect that if Michelle goes first, Jim Bob won't even wait a year before he gets married again to a girl young enough to enable him to start begetting a new quiverfull. The rationale will be that, even though Michelle was the love of his life and he will always mourn her, the Lord laid it on his heart to continue his mission of providing the world with an army of little Duggars.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Albanyguy

[Dianaofthehunt]

“…the lord laid it on his heart….”
oh, I just shat myself. Why do these fundies use phraseology that no intellengent person would ever use? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.
I’m doing the Dance of Bad Knees over their fawning tv show being cancelled. TLC, what took you so damn long?!
And, from the Beating a Dead Horse Department:
Did Josh’s judge have the option of leaving him in jail, rather than releasing him to the custody of the Rebers? If so, why the hell didn’t she? I’m so mad he’s living in a house and not in a jail cell!
(Yes; I’m not over my *mad* about this issue, and won’t be, until he’s locked up and gotten his first beating.)

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Patriarchy aside I don't think Michelle would stand for that. 

 Bitch used to beat little infants with a wooden spoon. God help the person that gets in the way of ‘the real Michelle’, and what she wants.

[Kellyee]

Quote

I think all the siblings hate Josh to varying degrees. Even on the original show, they were standoffish towards him, and JD used to pal around with Joe rather than his older brother. The siblings tolerated him because it's what Boob demanded and he controlled the purse strings.

Even with 19 siblings several of the kids never seemed to have a real best friend. I noticed both Josh and Jana seemed to be set apart from their siblings. Jessa and Jinger were always together, and maybe Jill and Joy Anna? But honestly I never noticed a real close bond between most of the siblings with each other or their parents. Even in the adult episodes, they always seem to be just hanging out at family gatherings, but there never seemed to be a real emotional bond or closeness between any of them.

When Joy realized her unborn baby had died, she called Carlin to come help her. That says a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rabbittron]

I wonder how and what Anna is doing ? None of this shit is her doing but guarantee 100% that she is getting blamed for it  because that is the way it is the fundie tradition. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Rabbittron

[Hockey Addict]

If I were in that family I'd advise Anna to seek a psychiatrist for herself and the kids but that probably won't happen.

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

I wonder how and what Anna is doing ? None of this shit is her doing but guarantee 100% that she is getting blamed for it  because that is the way it is the fundie tradition. 

She isn’t to blame for Josh’s actions, but she IS to blame for not protecting her kids from all of it.

[JustRosie]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

That old four letter word called work is going to be entering a lot of vocabularies in that family soon.

Yep, probably think work is a nasty four letter work ending in “k”.  

[WinnieWinkle]

11 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

I agree with you and it makes me wonder did he ever do anything to his kids?

I wonder if he ever did anything for his kids.  He barely supported them financially but I guess that could be said for a lot of father's out there.  But I am betting he never changed a diaper, fed a hungry child or read to his kids.  He won't be missed.

Edited June 30, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[farmgal4]

6 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I wonder if he ever did anything for his kids.  He barely supported them financially but I guess that could be said for a lot of father's out there.  But I am betting he never changed a diaper, fed a hungry child or read to his kids.  He won't be missed.

I certainly hope the perverted POS never changed a diaper, but I’m betting that he did.

[JoanArc]

8 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I certainly hope the perverted POS never changed a diaper, but I’m betting that he did.

Anna repeatedly mentioned that she breast-fed them and he changed diapers but who knows what the truth really was.

[Heathen]

50 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I wonder if he ever did anything for his kids.  He barely supported them financially but I guess that could be said for a lot of father's out there.  But I am betting he never changed a diaper, fed a hungry child or read to his kids.  He won't be missed.

He's still their dad, and they will most likely miss him. My dad is an emotionally and physically abusive narcissistic drunk, and I still missed him. 

[ginger90]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

At that point, I would not be surprised to discover that Josh is made executor of the estate

I’m betting the executor or executrix (ha!) of the estate is not a family member at all.

[WinnieWinkle]

58 minutes ago, Heathen said:

He's still their dad, and they will most likely miss him. My dad is an emotionally and physically abusive narcissistic drunk, and I still missed him. 

Fair enough but I do believe that in terms of their day to day care him not being around has made little to no difference.

[BradandJanet]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Until both parents are gone, the point is kinda moot.  Whichever parent dies first, the other will step in and handle the finances and very little will be distributed to the kids until after he/she dies.  At that point, I would not be surprised to discover that Josh is made executor of the estate and has quite a bit of control over how the assets are distributed and no doubt will keep the best for himself.  JB and M are too invested in their patriarchal faith to let someone step ahead of their firstborn.

Making Josh the executor would be the final fuck you to the rest of the Duggar kids. 

[Enya Face]

3 hours ago, Heathen said:

He's still their dad, and they will most likely miss him. My dad is an emotionally and physically abusive narcissistic drunk, and I still missed him. 

I think you are, sadly, totally correct @Heathen . My dad was pretty much the same as you described yours, and as much as I hated his guts sometimes, I still cried when he died (and for a good while before and after).

These poor lil kiddos are kinda fucked (for lack of a better term) as far as dear ole Daddy is concerned. Great job, Josh! The ONE job you had is the one you failed the hardest at. 

[Quilt Fairy]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I’m betting the executor or executrix (ha!) of the estate is not a family member at all.

ITA.  JB's estate is probably large enough and complex enough that he would be foolish to appoint a family member as executor, and JB is smart enough to realize that.  He's had no hesitation to involve lawyers when needed. 

 

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I wonder if JB is so patriarchal that he would leave the pedo son as executor, or in charge of distributing money, because he thinks it's a man's place to run everything, and wouldn't have a woman in control.  

[Gemma Violet]

Interesting item in Blind Gossip today:

https://blindgossip.com/not-all-in-the-family/#more-102645

Quote

 

This family has earned a living off of having their drama play out on TV.

While they present a unified front for the TV audience, that is not the way things are playing out in private!

When one of their family members got into trouble, all in the family pretended to rally around and support that person.

Behind the scenes, however, it was a completely different story!

While some family members want to see his name cleared, not all of them feel that way.

[Sister 1] and [Sister 2] will never say this in public, but they believe that Brother 1 is evil. They do everything they can to avoid him in real life. This has been going on for a long time. If he is at a relative’s house, they refuse to go over there.

They do not like him and they do not support him. They are completely repulsed by him and they never want to see him again. They both hope he goes to prison for a long time.

So all that family unity you saw on TV? Fake. But it was the only way to stay on the air.

Is there a lawyer in the family who could help either side get what they want?

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Gemma Violet

[emmawoodhouse]

4 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

ITA.  JB's estate is probably large enough and complex enough that he would be foolish to appoint a family member as executor, and JB is smart enough to realize that.  He's had no hesitation to involve lawyers when needed. 

 

 

Please let that lawyer be the chronically inept Travis Story! 😂

[Scarlett45]

Reminder- it’s against forum guidelines to speculate on Josh’s potential victims. (minor or adult).

You may discuss anything an adult victim has made public or alleged. 

[Showthyme]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:27 PM, MargeGunderson said:

And he’ll have to go to therapy. He’s going to hate that.

No, narcissists love therapy. All about them. 

[GeeGolly]

44 minutes ago, Showthyme said:

No, narcissists love therapy. All about them. 

Not if their therapist is any good.

[Showthyme]

39 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Not if their therapist is any good.

True, but I think he will be receiving prison therapy. I would like TLC to tape his group therapy sessions so I can watch the other members of the group hand Josh's ass to him. 

Not to put down prison therapists. I just don't know that the environment really lends to getting into the mental and emotional weeds.

I feel bad for the Duggar sisters. They have been brought up to have babies without any consideration for finances or without having a skillset in the event that they would be a single parent someday for whatever reason. All they know is media. The field is flooded with influencers. I just don't see any of them being able to support themselves over the long haul with this medium. The TV show was going to end at some point even without the horrible circumstances surrounding Josh. They are repeatedly being victimized by him. 

One of them should do a tell-all book or series right away to capitalize on this situation. They can pray on it as they are sitting next to their ghost writer. 

 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Showthyme said:

I would like TLC to tape his group therapy sessions so I can watch the other members of the group hand Josh's ass to him. 

That would be such a terrible violation of the privacy of everyone else in that group. In my opinion, nothing about Josh needs to ever be filmed again. He needs to just go away and wither in anonymity and disgrace. 

[Future Cat Lady]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

That would be such a terrible violation of the privacy of everyone else in that group. In my opinion, nothing about Josh needs to ever be filmed again. He needs to just go away and wither in anonymity and disgrace. 

True. Also, why would the other members of the group hand Josh's ass to him? They all would be pedophiles/sex offenders and may have the same attitudes he has. 

However, if he does get evaluated for the trial by a therapist for the prosecution, I would like to hear her/his testimony.

[Edith bluth]

52 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

True. Also, why would the other members of the group hand Josh's ass to him? They all would be pedophiles/sex offenders and may have the same attitudes he has. 

However, if he does get evaluated for the trial by a therapist for the prosecution, I would like to hear her/his testimony.

I attended college in a prison town. I took a human sexuality class, and my professor's wife worked at the local prisons. Apparently there was a big divide between the sexual offenders who molested others and who molested within the family. Basically the family ones were like "at least we kept it in the family and didn't hurt others" and the other ones were like "who would mess with family, at least we hurt others." It blew my mind that even the bottom of the barrel people were trying to find ways to justify their actions so they were better than others. So I could absolutely see other sexual offenders looking down on Josh. 

[Spazamanaz]

And a child molester is at the very bottom of the barrel. Other sex offenders look down at child molesters.

[Fosca]

1 hour ago, Edith bluth said:

Apparently there was a big divide between the sexual offenders who molested others and who molested within the family. Basically the family ones were like "at least we kept it in the family and didn't hurt others" and the other ones were like "who would mess with family, at least we hurt others." It blew my mind that even the bottom of the barrel people were trying to find ways to justify their actions so they were better than others. So I could absolutely see other sexual offenders looking down on Josh. 

And Josh hurt both families and others, plus downloaded/watched/presumably enjoyed violent child porn.  Everybody is going to hate him.  Hope he's ready for solitary.

[CouchTater]

16 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Interesting item in Blind Gossip today:

https://blindgossip.com/not-all-in-the-family/#more-102645

 

This blind item is so very specific and not very blind.  😄

[libgirl2]

43 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

This blind item is so very specific and not very blind.  😄

Nope, that one has it's eyes wide open! I can see the sisters being Jill and Jinger. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by libgirl2

[graefin]

14 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Nope, that one has it's eyes wide open! I can see the sisters being Jill and Jinger. 

That's the most interesting aspect of this blind item--which sisters hate Josh and refuse to be in the same space with him? It's obvs not Jessa, since she's pictured at the "Big House" all the time. Clearly it's referencing one of the married ones, since they have the ability to choose to avoid him. That would leave Jill, Jinger, and Joy. Joy's kids have been seen at the house too, haven't they?

So by process of elimination, it would have to be Jill and Jinger. Given what we know about them, they make the most sense too, since Jinger and Jeremy were the ones who released that statement, and Jill has been going to therapy, which has probably helped her have a healthier perspective on things.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, graefin said:

That's the most interesting aspect of this blind item--which sisters hate Josh and refuse to be in the same space with him? It's obvs not Jessa, since she's pictured at the "Big House" all the time. Clearly it's referencing one of the married ones, since they have the ability to choose to avoid him. That would leave Jill, Jinger, and Joy. Joy's kids have been seen at the house too, haven't they?

So by process of elimination, it would have to be Jill and Jinger. Given what we know about them, they make the most sense too, since Jinger and Jeremy were the ones who released that statement, and Jill has been going to therapy, which has probably helped her have a healthier perspective on things.

that is why those two stick out for me. Both live away from TTH and don't seem to go there very often.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by libgirl2

[SMama]

The thing about Jinger is that Volderjosh parked his RV on her driveway when the family of vermin visited the Vuolos. Jinger also went on outings with the family, like the one where one of the little Ms was missing and Anna lost her shit with the young Duggar slaves. However, Jeremy did not make himself available for the outings. 

[Scarlett45]

12 minutes ago, SMama said:

The thing about Jinger is that Volderjosh parked his RV on her driveway when the family of vermin visited the Vuolos. Jinger also went on outings with the family, like the one where one of the little Ms was missing and Anna lost her shit with the young Duggar slaves. However, Jeremy did not make himself available for the outings. 

That is true, but other people also went. I could see Jinger and Jill putting up with Josh in a group setting (not having any animosity towards Anna or their nieces/nephews) but would not want to sit next to, or be around Josh one on one.

I could also see Jana as one of the sisters. Jana was pretty upset with Josh after what he did to the other girls (rightly so of course), and Jana has a great bit of authority in the family. Josh may go to the TTH but I could see Jana not speaking to him or being in the same room with him if she didnt want to be. She may conveniently "disappear" from the TTH when Josh is due to arrive. 

[libgirl2]

21 minutes ago, SMama said:

The thing about Jinger is that Volderjosh parked his RV on her driveway when the family of vermin visited the Vuolos. Jinger also went on outings with the family, like the one where one of the little Ms was missing and Anna lost her shit with the young Duggar slaves. However, Jeremy did not make himself available for the outings. 

It makes me wonder if Jeremy told her, you can entertain them but I'm not going along with it. 

[KitKat]

3 hours ago, Fosca said:

And Josh hurt both families and others, plus downloaded/watched/presumably enjoyed violent child porn.  Everybody is going to hate him.  Hope he's ready for solitary.

His parents flaunting sex in front of a then child reaching puberty is a crime in and of itself, the only people he saw was family, no chance to develop a natural progression of being 12 year old crushing on the girl in school.  Talking to other boys about sex, sneaking a peek at Playboy.  First hug, kiss, broken heart, breaking hearts.  His parents put the girls on a platter.

He had normal needs to explore and given his upbringing it is a wonder nothing else happened in that fucked up hell hole of a house.  Hell he couldn't have alone time to masturbate.

I do think as an adult he should have known NOT to look at children being abused. 

None of us really know the reality of how sexual his parents displayed themselves in the open.

 

 

 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, KitKat said:

His parents flaunting sex in front of a then child reaching puberty is a crime in and of itself, the only people he saw was family, no chance to develop a natural progression of being 12 year old crushing on the girl in school.  Talking to other boys about sex, sneaking a peek at Playboy.  First hug, kiss, broken heart, breaking hearts.  His parents put the girls on a platter.

He had normal needs to explore and given his upbringing it is a wonder nothing else happened in that fucked up hell hole of a house.  Hell he couldn't have alone time to masturbate.

I do think as an adult he should have known NOT to look at children being abused. 

None of us really know the reality of how sexual his parents displayed themselves in the open.

 

 

 

I think Josh had a predatory nature from early on. Yes he was living a pretty insular life, but this was not a case of close in age siblings not understanding proper boundaries, and experimenting consentually. He PREYED on his little sisters while they were sleeping. He CHASED Jinger in the laundry room. He assaulted five year old Joy during story time. Josh admitted to assaulting the babysitter while she was napping.

I am sure there are tons of people who don't have romantic or sexual contact with another person until their late teens/adulthood- most of them do not assault their younger siblings. Many young people are told masturbation is wrong, most of them do not assault their younger siblings (or other smaller children they have access to, or ANYONE), they sneak and masturbate anyway.

Based on everything happened, I think Josh in a typical upbringing would've been "that guy" slipping girls drugs without their consent, assaulting them, and saying they "deserved it" because he paid for dinner. He would've been the guy spreading rumors that so and so was a "tease", he would've been the guy in college where by women told each other "don't be alone with him, he is a creep".

How much of that is nature vs nurture- I think Josh knew what he was doing was wrong and chose to do it anyway, with no concern for whom he was hurting, only for getting caught and possibly ruining his parents "reputation". That type of arrogance was likely taught, but the rest, I don't know.

 

[KitKat]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Josh had a predatory nature from early on. Yes he was living a pretty insular life, but this was not a case of close in age siblings not understanding proper boundaries, and experimenting consentually. He PREYED on his little sisters while they were sleeping. He CHASED Jinger in the laundry room. He assaulted five year old Joy during story time. Josh admitted to assaulting the babysitter while she was napping.

I am sure there are tons of people who don't have romantic or sexual contact with another person until their late teens/adulthood- most of them do not assault their younger siblings. Many young people are told masturbation is wrong, most of them do not assault their younger siblings (or other smaller children they have access to, or ANYONE), they sneak and masturbate anyway.

Based on everything happened, I think Josh in a typical upbringing would've been "that guy" slipping girls drugs without their consent, assaulting them, and saying they "deserved it" because he paid for dinner. He would've been the guy spreading rumors that so and so was a "tease", he would've been the guy in college where by women told each other "don't be alone with him, he is a creep".

How much of that is nature vs nurture- I think Josh knew what he was doing was wrong and chose to do it anyway, with no concern for whom he was hurting, only for getting caught and possibly ruining his parents "reputation". That type of arrogance was likely taught, but the rest, I don't know.

 

I agree to an extent, Old Testament Bible teaching pretty much has a lot of incest, imagine having that drilled in your head for years...please remember, I think after marriage and moving to DC and being exposed to life he should have had a WTF moment, like maybe "my parents are creepy, Anna lets move to Alaska...."  not "YES, OH HELL, YES"  free internet and let me buy sex"  The child had the no choice.... the man did, so let me change my thought a bit, I forgot Anna and he moved and he did have opportunities to talk to other men, women and experience life, the money TLC Train has moved the hobo is lying on the track

Edited July 1, 2021 by KitKat

[awaken]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

The thing about Jinger is that Volderjosh parked his RV on her driveway when the family of vermin visited the Vuolos. Jinger also went on outings with the family, like the one where one of the little Ms was missing and Anna lost her shit with the young Duggar slaves. However, Jeremy did not make himself available for the outings. 

How many years ago was it that Josh and Anna + fam visited the Vuolos?  

I'd also be curious to go back and look at family photos of holidays and other events they've posted in the past couple years to see which of the sisters are consistently absent.  I have a feeling Jana might be one who can't stand Josh- she must be absolutely disgusted by each of the scandals for different reasons.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

That is true, but other people also went. I could see Jinger and Jill putting up with Josh in a group setting (not having any animosity towards Anna or their nieces/nephews) but would not want to sit next to, or be around Josh one on one

That was my take as well. Since Smuggar and his brood tagged along on the trip, if Jinger wanted to see her parents and siblings, she had to put up with Josh. FWIW, I think Jeremy, Derick, Bin and Austin loathe him. I've never seen any of them say one word to him.

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Nope, that one has it's eyes wide open! I can see the sisters being Jill and Jinger. 

Jinger welcomed Josh and family to their home in LA last year (or the year before, I’ve lost all track of time!) 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Cinnabon

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

FWIW, I think Jeremy, Derick, Bin and Austin loathe him. I've never seen any of them say one word to him.

Jill and Derrick went on a double date with Josh and Anna at one point, I believe (after J&D were married, after the molestations were revealed... not sure if it was post-Ashley Madison...).

Edited July 2, 2021 by dargosmydaddy

[awaken]

54 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Jinger welcomed Josh and family to their home in LA last year (or the year before, I’ve lost all track of time!) 

I also imagine Jinger and the other family members have some warm feelings and relationships with Anna and their nieces and nephews, and put up with Josh as part of the package deal.

[KitKat]

21 minutes ago, awaken said:

I also imagine Jinger and the other family members have some warm feelings and relationships with Anna and their nieces and nephews, and put up with Josh as part of the package deal.

The family has never come off as loving....no hugs and kisses....I think they are are cold because the emotion to have empathy and giving a damn was suppressed.

My brother molested me when I was 12 and he 15....we worked through it later in life....molestation doesn't mean you become A JOSH....Josh had many opportunities....my brother is happily married and NOT a pedophile

...sometimes life is what it is and you say WTF and move on, this idiot, Josh decisions are sad

Edited July 2, 2021 by KitKat

[Scarlett45]

35 minutes ago, KitKat said:

The family has never come off as loving....no hugs and kisses....I think they are are cold because the emotion to have empathy and giving a damn was suppressed.

My brother molested me when I was 12 and he 15....we worked through it later in life....molestation doesn't mean you become A JOSH....Josh had many opportunities....my brother is happily married and NOT a pedophile

...sometimes life is what it is and you say WTF and move on, this idiot, Josh decisions are sad

I am very sorry that happened to you. 
 

I think there are some genuine family relationships. Jill was obviously very loving towards her buddies. And some people are more physically affectionate than others. I’m not a hugger at all, but I have deep loving relationships with my family members. 
 

Even during the early specials I could see all the older kids couldn’t STAND Josh. I thought he was just a sanctimonious asshole who lorded his power over the kids. He got the “Smuggar” moniker when the molestations were just rumors. He’s an awful person. 

[emmawoodhouse]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Jinger welcomed Josh and family to their home in LA last year (or the year before, I’ve lost all track of time!) 

It was Fall 2019. 

I'm not sure how "welcome" Smuggar was. He was part of the package deal, including parents and many younger siblings.

[woodscommaelle]

On 6/28/2021 at 9:59 AM, Rabbittron said:

They have been housing a lot of sex criminals in the Englewood Colorado country club prison. 

Where in Englewood is this? 

[emmawoodhouse]

Prison in Englewood, CO.