Jeopardy! Tournament of Champions

[secnarf]

I really hope Amy is able to win tomorrow. As much as I like Sam (and I don’t dislike Andrew either), I want Amy to win. And with each game that passes, I am more and more nervous for her. I have started checking the winner of the game before I watch because I can’t take the suspense. 
 

For FJ, for some reason my brain associates Paul with the Church readings that were so often “from the first letter of Paul to the Corinthians”. I haven’t been to church in a long long time, but I was unable to get away from that association. 

[possibilities]

I wanted them each to win at least one game, not only because I like all of them, but also because it will make the tournament last longer. 

I didn't have a sense of Andrew's personality at all in his original run, but his stories make me like him. His desire for more quiet really endeared him to me, as I also like silence.

[Grizzly]

Had to laugh at their attempt to coordinate for their intros. Everyone pointed a little early.

[SomeTameGazelle]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

Am I the only one who was a little hazy on the definition of assonance?  They actually explained it in the top clue, which of course was the last in the category to be revealed. I mean, I can remember alliteration and onomatopoeia and homophones and homonyms, but I think I ran out of brain space for assonance. 

I was apparently paying so little attention that I heard Saul Bellow after Wedding Bells and assumed that I was missing some aspect of the assonance category that also required "bell" as part of the response.

Andrew's all-in wagers have me rooting for him even though I like both Amy and Sam.

[Bliss]

I really don't care (a lot) who wins this TOC. They are ALL champions in my opinion. They're all brilliant, all 'real' (authentic), and all are interesting people with remarkable recall. I give Sam the extra credit, being a senior. For you young whipper-snappers, you'll know what I mean when you get there... although Mr Bliss seems to be impressed with my hollering the question before Ken finishes reading the answer. Like, "What's Regina!" Yes, I've adopted Matt's WHAT - hope he doesn't trademark that.

Personally, I was pleased Amy pulled "Regina" out of her memory bank. It was my home for 13 years and although I have no desire to return, I enjoyed life in that city - very family-friendly and affordable. It's also one of the sunniest places in Canada (which is appreciated during the cold, dry winters).

Damn it, Sam, I've been hoping you'll pull it off - at least one game?! - and today, I thought you'd bagged a win... right up to the moment of the FJ disappointment. The fact that he'd have won if he'd bet 0 is annoying. I'd love them to announce tomorrow that they've decided to accept Romans as an acceptable 'answer'... and then each contestant would have 1 win each. I know... in my dreams.

[30 Helens]

Damn. I was sure this was going to Sam’s turn. I will be rooting very hard against Andrew tomorrow, not because I don’t want him to win, but because I’m not ready to say goodbye to the others yet. As previously noted, Amy, Andrew and Sam are winning no awards for choreography, but they are clearly having a blast, and it’s infectious.

4 hours ago, ABay said:

I meant Nelson said "England expects every man to do his duty" as well as "Kiss me, Hardy," I think it was Farragut who said "Damn the torpedoes."

I thought it was Tom Petty. 😉

[bankerchick]

Ken's Humphrey Bogart impression was so bad that I didn't realize he was trying to do one, but I did know Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

I have really enjoyed this final.  Mattea not being in it is a big part of the reason, but all of the players seem to be having fun.  I would love to have a drink with the three of them.  I also find the questions are pretty good for wiping the smug off my face.

[3 is enough]

I was hoping Sam would get a win.  Oh well.  I also said Romans.

On a shallow note, I found Amy’s glasses to be very distracting.  I think the pair she wore yesterday suited her better.  But that's just me- just not a fan of busy frames.

Edited November 17, 2022 by 3 is enough

[TakomaSnark]

Welp, unless Sam comes back to win three or Thursday's show opens with a mea culpa that a major game-affecting error was made in FJ judging and Sam won game three after all (highly doubtful), I am done. I like Andrew but a win for him now will always have an asterisk. 

I don't know what is going on in the Jeopardy writers room lately but the clue writing itself has gotten glib and too cutesy, never mind the questionable content of the clues (tonight's FJ, Laundrie.)

I'm glad Mayim wasn't hosting this, because the fandom would have blamed her for Sam's loss and insisted that can-do-no-wrong Ken would have caught that error and awarded Sam the win.

The buck, of course, stops with Michael Davies. Less making Jeopardy! a sport, bloated tournaments and other riff raff and get back to what Trebek and Harry Friedman knew the show was about for decades: Facts and information. 

[Runningwild]

10 hours ago, Katy M said:

I got FJ, but I was beginning to second guess myself as the author of Hebrews isn't really known, though often attributed to Paul.

I got the missed clues of Nicki (sp?) Minaj, Men who Stare at Goats (saw the movie, thought it was stupid), and sleepwalking.

Did much better tonight.  But, still not good.

I think that FJ was a very poor question. It’s possible Paul wrote Hebrews but certainly not definitive enough for FJ. I just think the producers want Amy to win. It seems Amy gets longer to answer questions, especially DJ questions. And then to give her FJ. 
 

Nope. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Runningwild

[stonehaven]

Yeah as a Bible College grad, I had to think exactly which book they meant.  Sometimes it's not about what is correct but what the writers have in mind...I said Romans...Hebrews is a bit of am uddy answer.

I was hoping Sam would win. I love this group of contestants. I will say that I am getting some clues in this TOC which makes me feel good. I was stunned that I knew three rappers in the rap category. I guess I know more than I thought. Now, if only I had automatic recall of ALL my passwords....sigh...

[TakomaSnark]

22 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

I think that FJ was a very poor question. It’s possible Paul wrote Hebrews but certainly not definitive enough for FJ. I just think the producers want Amy to win. It seems Amy gets longer to answer questions, especially DJ questions. And then to give her FJ. 
 

Nope. 

11 hours ago, 853fisher said:

Comments are swarming elsewhere about the FJ clue.

The Epistle to the Hebrews has indeed been traditionally attributed to Paul, but most modern scholars believe it was written by an unconfirmed other person, in imitation of Paul's style.  In fact, questions about the attribution to Paul go back to the third century.  Interestingly, it has been pointed out that the LDS Church, of which Ken is a member, is one group which holds that Paul did write it.  I bring this up because some have asked, "even if the writers missed this, why didn't Ken catch it when he looked over the clues before the game?"

Meanwhile, the Epistle to the Romans, the answer given by Sam and ruled incorrect, is uncontroversially attributed to Paul.  It would also apparently be the correct response to the clue if Hebrews is discounted.

This is what I've gathered from some light research.  Perhaps others here are more knowledgeable.  I'm curious to learn more.  It really would be disappointing if this was the error it seems it might be, especially because it couldn't easily be mitigated, depending on how it might affect the eventual result of the tournament.

Jeopardy itself acknowledged the authorship was disputed just last year! From the June 2, 2021 show:

Quote

Not to be confused with Barabbas, this companion of Paul has sometimes been credited with writing the epistle to the Hebrews

Absolutely no consistency coming from the writers. If you know the authorship is disputed, you can't put up a later clue suggesting that it isn't.

Wednesday's clue never should have made it to any Jeopardy! board, never mind the TOC, never mind as an FJ in the biggest TOC finals in recent memory.

Theology Twitter has been tearing the show to shreds.

ETA: Runningwild, your comment got put in the wrong place but as far as the show seeming to want Amy to win (even though she still lost last night)... eeyup.

Edited November 17, 2022 by TakomaSnark

[blueray]

As for FJ, I had no idea, so just guest Roman. But apparently that was actually correct or at least non-incorrect. Sam deserved the win then! And I doubt they corrected it as it is previously taped. Unless they start today's episode with this announcement. Which would be an interesting way to start drama lol. I imagine they filmed them back to back.

Edited November 17, 2022 by blueray

[TakomaSnark]

14 minutes ago, blueray said:

As for FJ, I had no idea, so just guest Roman. But apparently that was actually correct or at least non-incorrect. Sam deserved the win then! And I doubt they corrected it as it is previously taped. Unless they start today's episode with this announcement. Which would be an interesting way to start drama lol. I imagine they filmed them back to back.

Was looking for any audience feedback in r/Jeopardy to see if filming stopped while judges debated Sam and Amy's responses (there often are people/ex-contestants at the tapings who provide on-the-ground details once the episode has aired). So far, nothing. Radio silence from Jeopardy and Michael Davies as well (neither has responded to media inquiries about the CJ debacle on  Sunday, either).

I hold out hope that Sam objected strenously and between episodes three and four, the judges had to reconsider the situation but... I am probably chasing windmills.

Thought this was an interesting bit of history.

Edited November 17, 2022 by TakomaSnark

[PaulaO]

No clue as to FJ!  I said Romans, then changed to Corinthians, then maybe Acts, then time was called.  I thought Hebrews was OT.  I hope Sam wins today just so each player will have won at least one game.

[BitterApple]

I'm with all of you hoping Sam can win one game. 

I can believe Andrew wouldn't get Better Off Dead, but I'm surprised the clue stumped Amy and Sam. I'm the same age as Amy and loved that movie during my childhood. 

[Prevailing Wind]

I'm just freakin' tired of all the religion clues.

[Runningwild]

TOC Controversy

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I'm with all of you hoping Sam can win one game. 

I can believe Andrew wouldn't get Better Off Dead, but I'm surprised the clue stumped Amy and Sam. I'm the same age as Amy and loved that movie during my childhood. 

I'm 50.  I never heard of it.

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

As for FJ, I had no idea, so just guest Roman. But apparently that was actually correct or at least non-incorrect. Sam deserved the win then! And I doubt they corrected it as it is previously taped. Unless they start today's episode with this announcement. Which would be an interesting way to start drama lol. I imagine they filmed them back to back.

They were taped in September; I'd think if they were going to fix it they'd have just done it and edited it so the questionable clue didn't air at all. (They have an extra clue for each category so they can replace one if there's an issue; do they ever just redo FJ with a different question?) Unless they're just leaning into all the drama they can now because reality-TV-type drama has ruined us all.

24 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'm 50.  I never heard of it.

I'm 47; I've heard of it but never seen it. I couldn't have even told you what it was about or who was in it.

Edited November 17, 2022 by ams1001

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Damn, Sam!  I was rooting for you!  I also said Romans for FJ.  

The only TS I got were LL Cool J, Better Off Dead, and sleepwalking.  Better Off Dead is absurdly hilarious.  I love that movie.  It's a bit dated, and a little problematic (there are two minor characters, one of whom speaks no English, and the other of whom learned English from watching the Wide World of Sports, so speaks like Howard Cosell), but I laugh so much when I watch it. 

Out of all the movies I watched on HBO as a kid, the paperboy and his 2 dollars from Better Off Dead live rent free in my mind after all these years.  Intaget for me.  LL Cool J was also rather easy.

[Conotocarious]

3 hours ago, Runningwild said:

TOC Controversy

JUSTICE FOR SAM.

I seriously hope its corrected.  Sam deserved the win.

[cinsays]

17 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

JUSTICE FOR SAM.

I seriously hope its corrected.  Sam deserved the win.

or throw the whole game result out and add another episode to replace it

[alias1]

Unfortunately the episode was filmed weeks ago.   The controversy now would not have made them change the game back then.

Now that there is this outcry, I wonder if this gets addressed by Jeopardy management somehow.

[Leeds]

15 hours ago, Bastet said:

 I was also a bit surprised no one went ahead and guessed sleepwalking for "an often nocturnal affliction".

Maybe they were all afraid of buzzing in with an inappropriate name for male morning affliction.

10 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

On a shallow note, I found Amy’s glasses to be very distracting.  I think the pair she wore yesterday suited her better.  But that's just me- just not a fan of busy frames.

I love Amy's Dame Edna glasses.

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Maybe they were all afraid of buzzing in with an inappropriate name for male morning affliction.

The character was a woman, so I don't think so.

4 minutes ago, Leeds said:

I love Amy's Dame Edna glasses.

Same here; I meant to mention last night that I loved her glasses.

[shapeshifter]

50+ years ago an optician uncle had glasses even more elaborate than Amy's that he let us try on, so I loved hers and related to wanting get a pair for the TOC. 

 

The Romans vs. Hebrews authorship debacle sounds like they hired NY Times crossword puzzle clue writers for Jeopardy!, which isn't the same, I don't think? 
When puzzlers complain about the NY Times clues not being accurate, someone has to point out that they are "clues," not definitions. 
I thought Jeopardy! clues are supposed to be more definitive, but maybe not?

[30 Helens]

I am far from a biblical scholar and would have gotten FJ wrong either way (the closest I got was Corinthians), but just to play Devil’s Advocate, I think there’s a case to be made for this being a proper ruling.

“Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations.” If you take that sentence apart, you can see that they are looking for 1) a letter written by Paul, AND 2) the epistle with the most quotations. Given that Hebrews had the most quotations, and that Paul has traditionally been seen as the author, knowing that modern scholars dispute his role does not change the fact that Hebrews is the only answer that potentially satisfies both parts of the clue. So even if Sam was aware of the authorship dispute, that’s the answer he should have landed on.

To look at it another way, imagine if Sam had answered “Hebrews” and been told “no, that’s incorrect, because Paul’s authorship of that letter is in question”. Imagine the outcry then!

I do agree that the clue should have been tossed in favor of one with a more definitive response, because why risk this kind of controversy. I also wonder if Sam was aware of the Paul debate, and if that’s why he answered as he did. (And if he questioned the verdict at the time.) 

[seacliffsal]

I am 68 and have always been told/have read/have researched that the authorship of Hebrews was not certain, so it is not a new idea.  In fact, when I answered FJ I answered Romans while acknowledging that there are more references/quotations in Hebrews but Paul may not have written it (am currently reading in Hebrews so it is currently in my mind).  

I hope that the producers are able to come up with a way (after the fact) to make it "right" with Sam.

[dgpolo]

11 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I'm just freakin' tired of all the religion clues.

Thought of you when I saw the religion category today!

Sam is going to be the death of me, that's twice I thought he would win and he didn't. But I am glad Amy won, I think I want her to win the most but I want Sam to get at least one win, he's doing so well.

[stonehaven]

If anything , bring Sam back for next year's TOC....or as a returning champion. Damn it! I need more Sam on my TV. Glad for the result tonight...I found myself knowing some answers and yelling out wrong answers at the same time. 

If they just had an all banjo category, I would rule....

[Katy M]

I said HP Lovecraft for final.  No idea why but I would have never guessed Joseph conrad.

I got the missed clue of serval.

And I got the entire category of miscellany right.

[Browncoat]

I went to Westerns for FJ tonight and said Louis L'Amour.  Oh well!  

The only TS I got was serval cat. 

I really wanted Sam to win tonight, but if not him, then Amy for sure.  I don't have anything against Andrew, I just would rather one of the others win the whole thing.

[Bastet]

Yes - go, Amy!  Whew.  Archive game for me; I was so nervous about the possibility of Andrew winning his third game, I had to peek and find out, and then decided to go ahead and "play" the whole game.  I may still take a break from football tonight to watch, though, because the game dynamics chart makes the second half of DJ look quite interesting.

I was back much closer to form in this game.  I missed three each in Bible* and hills in the first round, but I got all but one in dates and ran the rest.  In DJ, I ran Native American and silent films and got all but one in miscellany (being able to see the picture wouldn't have helped me; for some reason, I can never remember serval in anything resembling a timely fashion whenever it's the subject of a clue).  I missed two each in far out and double letters and three in memoirs (I would have come up with Brain on Fire if I'd cheated and given myself more time).

I had no idea for FJ, though.  Ask me anything about Thelma & Louise and I can tell you in detail, but any other film Ridley Scott directed, I got nothin'.  Like the contestants, I thought it would be a sci-fi author, and, unlike them, I don't really know any of those, so I didn't even hazard a guess.

*That's the second Bible category in this ToC.  Not just religion (there was one of those, too), but specifically the Bible.  Plus a Bible FJ.  I hope we're done for the tournament.

[annzeepark914]

Grrr...Sam! 1906 was the SF earthquake, not 1912 (& I'm not even from CA). He did it again when they showed a map with the two islands off the coast of Cape Cod. Martha's Vineyard is closer to the cape. 😟 I wanted him to win so badly. He's such a fun & delightful contestant. There aren't many Jeopardy contestants like him.

[SoMuchTV]

A King James Bible category? Are they just messing with us now?

Also, can Sam please win the next two games? And make this an actual best of seven?

Edited November 18, 2022 by SoMuchTV

[Conotocarious]

I want a win for Sam so badly. He is so funny and adorable! And he has played consistently good games but has come up just a tad short in every one. Come on Sam! 
 

that said I am very happy Amy won. She really had a no nonsense game and basically crushed it.

Also I was absolutely certain that was an ocelot. 

[zoey1996]

I so hoped Sam would win today!

The authors I thought of were all sci-fi - Bradbury, Heinlein, Asimov, Le Guin. I'd not heard of The Duellists.

[Bastet]

9 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

He did it again when they showed a map with the two islands off the coast of Cape Cod. Martha's Vineyard is closer to the cape. 😟

It also doesn't have a Native American name, so even if he didn't know which one is which on a map, paying attention to the category would have eliminated that problem.

(The category is how I got it; unable to see the map, "island south of Cape Cod" made me immediately think of Martha's Vineyard, but I knew it was "the other one, the one I haven't been to" based on the category and took a second to pull Nantucket out of my brain.  And then a few seconds to get dirty limericks out of my brain.)

[dgpolo]

1 minute ago, zoey1996 said:

I'd not heard of The Duellists.

For some reason I had the thought that it was a French author so I was going French like Dumas.🤦‍♀️

[chessiegal]

Go Amy! She really had her game face on today. Both Amy and Sam know they need to keep the DDs away from Andrew., 

[annzeepark914]

I'm so very weary of one contestant quirk: the long hesitation. I don't recall these long hesitations until this past year. Can't remember all the contestants who do this other than Matt and Andrew, but there have been several. They always seem to have the correct response too.

[Irlandesa]

On 11/16/2022 at 12:57 PM, Conotocarious said:

I really like Amy and Sam. I just can’t warm up to Andrew, sorry buddy. I’m sure he’s a really nice person though.

I think the beginning of the episode is why I'm in the same boat.  I know double jeopardies are part of the game but Amy had the most correct responses and Sam was only one behind.  Andrew was close too but you'd think he'd have more being up two games. 

This is the Amy I've wanted to see.  She was terrific in this game.  I just love how she attacked the Jeopardy round. 

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

If anything , bring Sam back for next year's TOC....or as a returning champion.

Seems like Sam would be a candidate for next year's Second Chancers, unless he turns this whole TOC around.

[ams1001]

70% / 77% / 72%

Watched earlier on youtube because it's my dad's birthday and we went out for dinner, so my comment has been sitting here waiting to be posted. Was rooting for Sam because I want everyone to win at least one game.

I did pretty well tonight! (By which I mean more in line with my normal-game performance.) In J! I ran Word of Warning, missed one in Bible Saith (wasn't someone just commenting last night about the plethora of religion questions...?), and two in everything else. Did even better in DJ - ran Far Out and Double Letters in the Middle, missed one in Native American Place Names and two in everything else. Did not get FJ. Haven't seen either of the movies in the clue, and have read and hated exactly one Conrad work. I guessed Clarke, also, just to guess something. At least I wasn't the only one to think it might be a SciFi author.

If I counted right, there were only four TSes in the game; the only one I got was serval.

[Back Atcha]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

*That's the second Bible category in this ToC.  Not just religion (there was one of those, too), but specifically the Bible.  Plus a Bible FJ.

And "specifically" a Bible that not every Christian religion uses.  Maybe THIS answer should be the basis for a Final Jeopardy question.

"In 1604, England's King James I authorized a new translation of the Bible aimed at settling some thorny religious differences in his kingdom—and solidifying his own power. But in seeking to prove his own supremacy, King James ended up democratizing the Bible instead."

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

This is the Amy I've wanted to see.  She was terrific in this game.  I just love how she attacked the Jeopardy round. 

I'm glad I took a break from football to watch the game, even though I'd already read through the archive -- I think she got hella motivated by blowing the DD in DJ and knocking herself out of contention in the last game.  Either she or Sam had to win this (I think Ken described this as a must-win for Amy, but, no, she just needed Andrew not to win), and they both had that little extra oomph accordingly.  Fun.

I quite liked tonight's glasses, too, but last night's are still my favorite so far.

I'm usually making a drink during the interviews, but I've wound up watching most of those segments so far in these finals, and have always liked all three.

[annzeepark914]

They really are three very nice people. I kinda feel guilty rooting for Sam & Amy. 

[30 Helens]

I, too, said Louis L’Amour. It sounded like a western to me. 🤷🏼‍♀️

3 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Go Amy! She really had her game face on today. Both Amy and Sam know they need to keep the DDs away from Andrew., 

Yes, and if they didn’t know, Ken certainly reminded them!

So, the way Andrew gets motivated is to think of someone berating and throwing things at him? I don’t know whether to be horrified or give him a hug.

Crossing all of my fingers and toes for a Sam win tomorrow.
 

[bad things are bad]

For FJ I immediately thought Conrad, but I didn't know why. Then I remembered the Nostromo. Must have been one of those useless trivia bits lodged in my subconscious mind