S06.E05: Heart and Soul

[Eyes High]

Why is it that fictional TV children are so unspeakably awful to their parents? I'm not that old, but I can't even conceive of ever calling my mother a slut.

Yeah, Deja, I was "wise beyond my years" in my teens too, and I still didn't know shit. Take a seat.

That Malik is even willing to consider Deja blowing up her own prospects and moving away from her family and support system because it will help him with his parenting situation lowers my opinion of him considerably. No person worth having as a partner would even entertain the suggestion.

Nicky and Edie are so cute together.

I did like Randall dragging Kevin over his serial monogamy. "Try not to propose to this one."

Randall trying to manipulate Malik into breaking up with Deja was dumb--how did he think that was going to go, seriously?--but nothing he said was inaccurate.

It's kind of annoying that the writers are milking so much suspense from the Kevin romance storyline when they've straight-up acknowledged that it consists of a series of interchangeable blondes. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Eyes High

[greekmom]

3 hours ago, kili said:

Malik had and has a lot of options. He was accepted at five schools in the Philly area, but chose to go to Harvard to study Russian Lit as the  foundation to becoming a Michelin Chef. Nobody will argue that Harvard is not prestigious, but it does not seem to closely align with his target career.

Agreed. It doesn't make sense at all.  Why would you study Russian lit if you want to become a Michelin Chef??

First, he could have saved some cash, gone to a local school (stayed at home, had help with his daughter, stayed local for Deja) to get a business degree since a Michelin Chef usually owns their own restaurant.  Next he would have spent the bulk of his educational money on a top notch culinary school which he would have gone away - to Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts, Culinary Institute of America, or Institute of Culinary Education.  All in the States.

Going to Harvard and studying Russian Lit is plot contrivance for the writers.

Plus, an 18 year old who wants to become a chef would make something  better than noodles in brown butter.

[Crs97]

1 minute ago, greekmom said:

Plus, an 18 year old who wants to become a chef would make something  better than noodles in brown butter.

Thank you!  Between the “I took extra AP classes to graduate early and I will still need to get a GED” and the Pearsons apparently never tasting browned butter before - the dinner writing whiffed pretty badly.

 

[BusyOctober]

Did Deja and Malik just assume Randall and Beth would foot the bills for the costs of moving, living and attending school in Boston?  Malik may have a scholarship and maybe even a stipend for housing, but as much money Harvard has in endowments, I doubt they have grant money earmarked for their students’ significant others to attend or live there. 
 

Add me to the confusion of Deja’s education plan.  First of all, she said she picked up 3 additional AP classes to earn more graduation credits.  Um, how did helicopter parents like Randall and Beth not know their daughter added more classes?  Then she says she has enough credits to graduate at the end of the semester, but will also earn her GED awhile in Boston.  Deja maybe bright, but that is a stupid statement.  A GED is not necessary if you earned your HS diploma.  Still don’t get how Malik’s ultimate life goal is to be a world class chef, but is studying Russian lit at an Ivy League school.  What the what? 

But this show, very much like “Parenthood” did, looks the other way when it comes to reality based careers.  Kate is a prime example.  She has a moderately decent singing voice and played a few paying gigs, so therefore Kate would make an aaaahMAZE-ing teacher.  No credentials in education, not to mention no certifications in Special Ed to teach blind kids, but she can sing and play piano, so she’s hired.  That school is private and probably not cheap to enroll in, so if I’m a paying parent, I would want a little more vetting than knowing my son’s teacher can do awesome covers of Stevie Nicks songs.

Edited February 2, 2022 by BusyOctober

[Eyes High]

27 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Agreed. It doesn't make sense at all.  Why would you study Russian lit if you want to become a Michelin Chef??

Why would you study Russian literature at all unless you were either interested in an academic career specializing in Russian literature or unconcerned about your future career prospects? It seems like a great way to specialize yourself out of a job, unless said job is in Russia I guess.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

I wish Randall and Beth would have pointed out the logistics of Deja and Malik's plan:

So Malik, how do you plan on supporting another person on top of your daughter and school supplies?

Oh, Deja, you're planning to work? What viable skills do you have in that department?

Deja, have you thought about the fact that you're going to have to interact with Jennifer on a regular basis?

Between school, work, and taking care of Janelle, do you honestly think you'll have enough time for each other? Because its not going to be like the weekend you have.

What if you break up? Now, now, I know you're committed to each other now, but what would you do if you break up? Would you still together or would one of you move out? Deja, how would you support yourself on your own?

Be careful what you wish for, Deja.  Her parents should let her go and let her see that life would not be the romantic dream she thinks it is.  Work, school, taking care of the baby... not hearts and roses.

7 hours ago, Crs97 said:

 If the show ends with Sophie being Kevin’s wife and walking in to say goodbye to Rebecca, someone might owe me a new television.

Ugh.  They tried to be together twice.  They broke up twice.  Sophie would be a fool to waste any more of her life on Kevin.

I never hit my children but if my daughter had called me a slut for going on a date years after being widowed I would have made an exception.  I cannot stand Kate at any age.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Haleth

[Katie111]

Deja grew up in a very unstable environment.  We can probably assume she went to an underserved school in a poor neighborhood.   In 3 years of living with the Pearson’s, she’s suddenly this brilliant student that can take 3 EXTRA AP courses along with her regular schedule?   AP courses are college level.   They are not easy.    And they don’t help you graduate early.  You still need 4 full years of English, 3 full years of math, etc in order to graduate.  You cannot just eliminate 1.5 years of high school in one semester.  And she would have had to come up with that plan before Malik ever left for school.  Also, what HS Junior has room in their daily schedule to take 3 extra course? 
 

I think Malik and Deja deserved a slap more than Kate did.  I wish for once Beth and Randall would just explode on Deja.  Randall always just walks away which would infuriate me if I was Beth.  And I love Beth but she lets her kids do whatever they want.  The middle girl is allowed to have a romantic partner in her room at the age of 12.  I don’t care if she’s straight or gay, not happening.  And now she going to let Deja move?  Deja is still a child and you are her parents. Sometimes parents have to say NO.  I think from the beginning they always encouraged this relationship way too much.  She had just gotten adopted and she was dating a boy two years older with a baby.  That’s when they should have said no.  
 

I think exploring more about how Deja fits into the family would have been much more interesting than adding Malik into the mix.  Show her doing normal teen things, pushing boundaries with curfews, drinking, etc and how that ties into her past life, rather than this stupid storyline with an 18 year old single dad raising a  baby and attending Harvard.  Makes no sense from a show with such usually great storytelling. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Katie111

[Eureka]

33 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Why would you study Russian literature at all unless you were either interested in an academic career specializing in Russian literature or unconcerned about your future career prospects? It seems like a great way to specialize yourself out of a job, unless said job is in Russia I guess.

I took some Russian lit and language classes in college because I love languages and had the space in my schedule. I was a French major back then. I do nothing related for my job now. That said, it would not be something the typical college freshman could fit into his schedule especially if he’s in a culinary arts program with test kitchen/lab components etc.

[BC4ME]

There were a lot of funny moments in the show but "worst case scenario" is just hilarious. I love me some Beth. 

[AzraeltheCat]

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

The only thing I didn’t like about Cassidy’s speech was my inner cynical voice telling me the writers are trying to manipulate me into thinking Sophie is his one true love when I think they are a toxic pairing.  If it can’t be Madison, then right now I can only hope that Cassidy takes the job helping oversee the house construction and they come together organically over the course of several years.  If the show ends with Sophie being Kevin’s wife and walking in to say goodbye to Rebecca, someone might owe me a new television.

I second this wholeheartedly.  I really hate the Kevin/Sophie relationship.  

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

Did Deja and Malik just assume Randall and Beth would foot the bills for the costs of moving, living and attending school in Boston?  Malik may have a scholarship and maybe even a stipend for housing, but as much money Harvard has in endowments, I doubt they have grant money earmarked for their students’ significant others to attend or live there. 
 

Add me to the confusion of Deja’s education plan.  First of all, she said she picked up 3 additional AP classes to earn more graduation credits.  Um, how did helicopter parents like Randall and Beth not know their daughter added more classes?  Then she says she has enough credits to graduate at the end of the semester, but will also earn her GED awhile in Boston.  Deja maybe bright, but that is a stupid statement.  A GED is not necessary if you earned your HS diploma.  Still don’t get how Malik’s ultimate life goal is to be a world class chef, but is studying Russian lit at an Ivy League school.  What the what? 

But this show, very much like “Parenthood” did, looks the other way when it comes to reality based careers.  Kate is a prime example.  She has a moderately decent singing voice and played a few paying gigs, so therefore Kate would make an aaaahMAZE-ing teacher.  No credentials in education, not to mention no certifications in Special Ed to teach blind kids, but she can sing and play piano, so she’s hired.  That school is private and probably not cheap to enroll in, so if I’m a paying parent, I would want a little more vetting than knowing my son’s teacher can do awesome covers of Stevie Nicks songs.

I blame this solely on the writers, its as if they threw some ideas together that made no sense, with a bunch of "buzz words" to indicate Deja wants to be with Malik before her senior year of HS is over.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Eureka said:

I took some Russian lit and language classes in college because I love languages and had the space in my schedule. I was a French major back then. I do nothing related for my job now. That said, it would not be something the typical college freshman could fit into his schedule especially if he’s in a culinary arts program with test kitchen/lab components etc.

I can see taking it as an elective just because you like the subject...but not in your first semester.

[Cancun]

When Kevin said, “I’m not even sure which blonde you’re talking about, to be honest”…thank you, writers, for reading my mind in real time! At first I thought I was missing the obvious point toward Madison? Sophie? Nope, Kevin was just as confused as I was. 

[CountryGirl]

I liked this episode a lot, except for the Deja/Malik nonsense and the Annie tease (she DOES exist!) to go absolutely nowhere.

Deja is right that she did have to grow up way too fast, having to parent herself and her own mother at times. Which is exactly why her thought process of moving to Boston with Malik to parent yet another child when she is only 17 is ridiculous. She has the rest of her life to move in with someone and be a parent. Let her have her youth. If Malik truly loved her like he says he does, he would take Randall's advice (as bumbling as it was) and let her go. His choices do not need to be her choices. Or, at minimum, if they think they are so meant to be, they can stay long-distance and see what the future holds. If their relationship cannot survive the distance, then it wasn't all that strong to begin with. If Deja is as wise beyond her years as she claims to be, she would get that. But let her have what is left of her teenage years.

This gap year that she keeps talking about should be for her to explore all kinds of opportunities to see what she wants to do with the next phase of her young life. Maybe traveling, gaining some skills, picking up a hobby. She's already had to parent herself so I see little to be gained by her spending her gap year cooking, cleaning, and taking care of Janelle. Or why does she need to hold off on going to college. Malik didn't, so again, why is her future put on hold for his? I also can't help but think this is being triggered by Jennifer being in close proximity and Deja feeling threatened. 

They are both so young. Who they are now is not who they are going to be at 25, particularly when they have the benefit of a fully-developed frontal cortex. Let them both grow up and see whom they become. Again, if their relationship is "all that," it will survive the time and distance apart.

It also grates that Deja's dreams would take a significant back seat to his and no, I will not buy that being his live-in cook, housekeeper, and nanny are Deja's actual dreams. She would be giving up everything to be with him and for what? The things I just mentioned? Not good enough by a million miles. Let Malik transfer to a school in Philly and reestablish his previous support system instead of expecting all of that to to rest on a young girl's shoulders. As someone said upthread, ask Malik how he would feel if a teenaged Janelle came home one day and pitched this to him. 

Finally, they are both still teenagers and don't know shit about shit.

I did appreciate getting at least a few minutes of the three sisters interacting as that has been sorely missing in the Deja storyline. 

Cassidy telling Kevin that they're both too broken to be with anyone right now was spot-on, although dare I say I wouldn't mind seeing them together further down the road. I saw more shades to Cassidy than her typical grumpy cat persona and I would be fine if she remained good friends with Kevin as opposite-gender friends are such a rarity. I seriously hope that the Kadison door is firmly shut and that Madison and Elijah keep progressing in their relationship. While I still hold out a sliver of hope for Sophie if Kevin can finally grow up and figure out what he truly wants (I know, I'm at a table for one here). But I would also be fine if Kevin focused on his kids and dated here and there - he doesn't need a relationship to define him after all.

I did have to laugh at Randall telling Kevin "You tried to have a one night stand...and ended up with twins." That is Kevin, in a nutshell.

Nicky and Edie were adorable and I would love to see more of them. 

Also, this exchange between Nicky and Kevin slayed me:

I loved seeing the little beginnings of Rebecca/Miguel. Him encouraging her to get back out there with dating and being her wing man of sorts for speed dating. Her complimenting his hair and him beaming. Them enjoying Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? show (I was sucked into that in the Regis days, too). And his face when he saw Rebecca hitting it off with PTA guy. John Huertas had such a great display of emotions - equal parts happy for her and realizing yup, he's fallen for his best friend's widow. Him being the first person she called after the fight with Kate. While I was hoping to get more of them, I like that they are taking their time vs just slapping everything into one episode. Their love story deserves more room to grow and be told.

I would have slapped the taste out of Kate's mouth, too, if I had been Rebecca and I am normally anti-violence. I can guarantee that slap hurt Rebecca far worse than it did Kate, considering her immediate breakdown on the phone to Miguel afterwards. She was also the first to apologize to Kate when it should have been the other way around. Also, Kate is an adult at this point and if she deems herself adult enough to put words like "slut" in her mouth and direct them at her mother, she's old enough to face the consequences. 

Here Rebecca is, trying to pick up the pieces of her shattered life and make choices she certainly wishes she didn't have to make, like agreeing to try speed dating or dating, period, when she thought she had found her lifelong love already. What does Kate expect her to do? Lie down and die alongside Jack?

I have a glimmer of sympathy for present-day Kate as it's only now that the sand is running out of the hourglass that she gets how very precious Rebecca is to her when she should have known all along, but it is on Kate that their relationship was strained for so long. 

That final montage of the two of them at the piano was so beautiful.

[BoogieBurns]

11 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I liked Kevin giving Madison's boyfriend advice although it's kind of weird to order for food for someone without asking. I'm no expert on eating disorders though so maybe he was right.

I have a strangely high amount in common with Madison. Including being in recovery from an eating disorder (we're also the same age and have the same jobs) and yes. This is correct. I never ask for food. But if extra shows up, that's usually the only time I'll eat in front of people. I'd say this was a great tip.

[Crs97]

15 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

What does Kate expect her to do? Lie down and die alongside Jack?

I think teenage Kate was hoping to wake up and find that Rebecca had died instead of Jack.  She was the worst.

Worst case scenario is hilarious, though I would never play it.  I also love Kevin and Nicky’s conversations.  More of them please.

[Jeddah]

37 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

would have slapped the taste out of Kate's mouth, too, if I had been Rebecca and I am normally anti-violence. I can guarantee that slap hurt Rebecca far worse than it did Kate, considering her immediate breakdown on the phone to Miguel afterwards. She was also the first to apologize to Kate when it should have been the other way around. Also, Kate is an adult at this point and if she deems herself adult enough to put words like "slut" in her mouth and direct them at her mother, she's old enough to face the consequences. 

You think there are circumstances where a woman deserves to be hit for talking back. That’s what abusers think. That’s the “she made me do it” justification wife-beaters use. I don’t think you should consider yourself “normally anti-violence” if you think there are times a grown woman, or anyone, deserves to be slapped in the face for being disrespectful.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jeddah

[Aloeonatable]

11 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Then again, since Malik/Deja is the least interesting relationship on the show to me; perhaps they should run away to Boston-and stay there.   This isn't 90210, the star crossed teens storyline just doesn't work in this show.

I'm with you. 

[Jeddah]

17 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jeddah

[GeorgiaRai]

This definitely foreshadowed a return of Sophie, which ... ugh.  Of Kevin's possibilites, my preferences are:
1. Madison
2. Cassidy
3. Random stranger
4. Sophie

[CountryGirl]

25 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I think teenage Kate was hoping to wake up and find that Rebecca had died instead of Jack.  She was the worst.

Worst case scenario is hilarious, though I would never play it.  I also love Kevin and Nicky’s conversations.  More of them please.

I honestly feel as if Rebecca's only sin in Kate's eyes is that she isn't Jack.

[BoogieBurns]

2 hours ago, Katie111 said:

In 3 years of living with the Pearson’s, she’s suddenly this brilliant student that can take 3 EXTRA AP courses along with her regular schedule?   AP courses are college level.   They are not easy.    And they don’t help you graduate early.  You still need 4 full years of English, 3 full years of math, etc in order to graduate.  You cannot just eliminate 1.5 years of high school in one semester.  

Deja was always bright. She just didn't have structure before. The teacher even said she should skip a grade a few seasons back. Intelligence isn't determined by social status. She was smart the whole time.

My aunt let my cousin quit school at 17 to go be with her boyfriend (a decision made right after losing her virginity to him... so this storyline is very realistic to me!) and now that cousin is divorced from her crazy abusive husband (the high school boyfriend) AND she has no work experience or education. She is now 35 applying at Chick Fil A because her mom let her think with her hormones at 17. Bad bad parenting.

Edited February 2, 2022 by BoogieBurns

[CountryGirl]

25 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

You think there are circumstances where a woman deserves to be hit for talking back. That’s what abusers think. That’s the “she made me do it” justification wife-beaters use. I don’t think you should consider yourself “normally anti-violence” if you think there are times a grown woman, or anyone, deserves to be slapped in the face for being disrespectful.

I grew up in a household with spousal and child abuse.

Please do not presume to speak for me how I feel about any of that or how I should consider myself or equate me, a victim of abuse, with being an abuser or pro-abuse.

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

Deja was always bright. She just didn't have structure before. The teacher even said she should skip a grade a few seasons back. Intelligence isn't determined by social status. She was smart the whole time.

Yes. It would be hard to excel academically when you’re parenting your parent, living in your car, and navigating the foster system, including some abusive foster parents.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Empress1

[BoogieBurns]

33 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

You think there are circumstances where a woman deserves to be hit for talking back. That’s what abusers think. That’s the “she made me do it” justification wife-beaters use. I don’t think you should consider yourself “normally anti-violence” if you think there are times a grown woman deserves to be slapped in the face for being disrespectful.

My mama slapped me once. I was fourteen and shouted at her in the car "I hate you!"

I EARNED that slap. My mother is not abusive and has never hit me before or after that. The point of the slap was that parents aren't perfect either. It wasn't a start of Rebecca (or my Ma) becoming abusive. It's the heat of the moment and both mother and daughter acting out of character. 

I consider both me and my mother to be non-violent or anti-violent. Doesn't mean we are perfect. Also, it didn't hurt. It just snapped me out of entitled bitchy teen mode.

[LADreamr]

30 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

You think there are circumstances where a woman deserves to be hit for talking back. That’s what abusers think. That’s the “she made me do it” justification wife-beaters use. I don’t think you should consider yourself “normally anti-violence” if you think there are times a grown woman deserves to be slapped in the face for being disrespectful.

Amen.  The normalization of controlling women through violence and degradation is bullshit on its own, but it's also the foundation of so many issues for women, individually and collectively.  And there's rarely, if ever, a scene where the girl gets to fight back.  She just has to take it.

This scene had the opportunity to be much more productive.  Rebecca could have said, "you're not allowed to talk to me like that, but I do want to know what's causing you to feel this way.  You have some anger that we need to deal with, or it's going to do both of us harm."  It could have been a discussion that got to the bottom of a lot of what we've seen between them.  Not solved it necessarily, but as it's coming to the end of the series, it would have been illuminating on a subject that hasn't been explored very much - that they had clashes, but no real exploration of why.  

[CountryGirl]

6 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

My mama slapped me once. I was fourteen and shouted at her in the car "I hate you!"

I EARNED that slap. My mother is not abusive and has never hit me before or after that. The point of the slap was that parents aren't perfect either. It wasn't a start of Rebecca (or my Ma) becoming abusive. It's the heat of the moment and both mother and daughter acting out of character. 

I consider both me and my mother to be non-violent or anti-violent. Doesn't mean we are perfect. Also, it didn't hurt. It just snapped me out of entitled bitchy teen mode.

It was extremely heat of the moment and an adult Kate was also being very verbally abusive to her mother in the lead up to that exchange. We have seen zero evidence of Rebecca ever doing that before or after so I am not willing to call her an abuser for one incident where, clearly emotional and still very much in a state of grieving, she had a lapse in judgment, which she immediately acknowledged and apologized for and took to heart by never, ever repeating it with Kate or anyone else.

[Cancun]

Congrats to Hannah Ziele for her impressive study of Chrissy’s expressions. Below is Hannah from this week’s episode and Chrissy from the episode where she first saw Toby with his shirt off.

[ifionlyknew]

35 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

It could have been a discussion that got to the bottom of a lot of what we've seen between them.  Not solved it necessarily, but as it's coming to the end of the series, it would have been illuminating on a subject that hasn't been explored very much - that they had clashes, but no real exploration of why.  

Oh I think we know why.  Kate wishes Jack was there rather than Rebecca.

26 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

It was extremely heat of the moment and an adult Kate was also being very verbally abusive to her mother in the lead up to that exchange. We have seen zero evidence of Rebecca ever doing that before or after so I am not willing to call her an abuser for one incident where, clearly emotional and still very much in a state of grieving, she had a lapse in judgment, which she immediately acknowledged and apologized for and took to heart by never, ever repeating it with Kate or anyone else.

Totally agree.  Kate was not a child.  It's not like Rebecca smacked a six year old.

[Blakeston]

12 hours ago, LADreamr said:

Thank you.  I'm so sick of that being expected.  Anytime a daughter is angry and speaks her mind, it's obvious they are going to be slapped.  And the BS about all teenage girls being difficult.  A lot of them are also amazing.  We've seen Kevin be an awful teenager on many occasions, but he would never get that treatment (not that I want any of them to).  It's long past time for these stereotypes to be retired.

I think Rebecca would have slapped Kevin if, as an adult, he'd called her a slut.

Precious Randall is the one she wouldn't have slapped.

[CountryGirl]

33 minutes ago, Cancun said:

Congrats to Hannah Ziele for her impressive study of Chrissy’s expressions. Below is Hannah from this week’s episode and Chrissy from the episode where she first saw Toby with his shirt off.

It really is uncanny and made me do some double-takes.

[RedDelicious]

Come on show. They presented Deja and Malik's plan like it was so earth shattering. What teenager didn't at some point envision what their life would be like if they could move out from under their parents and go live somewhere with their teenage partner? Beth and Randall adopted Deja to give her a better chance at life, and hatching a plan to throw it all away is how she thanks them? I feel that if parents are providing children with resources, and how fortunate, it is the child's job to make the most of those resources and do something with it, until they are old enough to fully support themselves. That's the deal.

And unfortunately, gap years in the true sense of the word (meaning to go "find" yourself, I don't mean when it's for gaining work experience and saving up) are for wealthy people who can afford to take them. If your goal is higher education, the longer you wait to do it, the harder it becomes. It's never impossible, but it does become harder to accomplish the longer you wait. I can't recall exactly what Deja said when she talked about taking a gap year. 

I never cease to be amazed by people who pursue degrees at Ivy League schools that are not commensurate with their earning potential in their field upon graduation. Again, something that very wealthy people are able to do. It reminded me of the Pierces on Succession and their parade of PhD toting family members who were in school for fun. Now that to me is an amazing luxury.

Help me out though - I don't understand the connection between Russian Literature and becoming a Michelin Chef. What am I missing? Or is that a disconnect on the show?

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, RedDelicious said:

Help me out though - I don't understand the connection between Russian Literature and becoming a Michelin Chef. What am I missing? Or is that a disconnect on the show?

In the episode where Deja visits Malik at Harvard, he has an assignment in his Russian Literature class he has to finish before spending time with Deja.  Which makes zero sense as a class a freshman would take in his first semester let alone why Malik would choose that as an elective when his career plan is to major in both business and culinary arts.  The writers just had to enroll the character in Harvard and name drop a "difficult" class.  They want us to see Malik as a bright young man with a plan who is going places, but they are laying it on a bit too thick to the point that he is straight up comical.  

[RedDelicious]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

In the episode where Deja visits Malik at Harvard, he has an assignment in his Russian Literature class he has to finish before spending time with Deja.  Which makes zero sense as a class a freshman would take in his first semester let alone why Malik would choose that as an elective when his career plan is to major in both business and culinary arts.  The writers just had to enroll the character in Harvard and name drop a "difficult" class.  They want us to see Malik as a bright young man with a plan who is going places, but they are laying it on a bit too thick to the point that he is straight up comical.  

Oh!! Oh lord, I thought Malik was majoring in Russian Literature. Which honestly wouldn't surprise me.

[izabella]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The writers just had to enroll the character in Harvard and name drop a "difficult" class.  They want us to see Malik as a bright young man with a plan who is going places, but they are laying it on a bit too thick to the point that he is straight up comical.  

And this is ridiculous anyway.  Russian lit is no harder than English lit or the classics like Aristotle and Plato.  The names are just longer and more difficult to pronounce.  Russian lit is novels!  Anna Karenina and Crime and Punishment are a lot easier to read than the Iliad, for example. It isn't like he is reading the books in Russian.

[CarpeFelis]

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am going to have to take back what I said about needing to see the Nicky/Edie love story.  Those two were hilarious tonight.  Far more enjoyable than Deja and Malik.  I'm going to regret saying this, Randall is right.  What's best for Deja is not quitting school and moving in with Malik.  She is wise beyond her years, but she does not need to sacrifice her youth for a guy and his daughter. Malik needs to set her free not tie her down with his responsibilities. 

It always cracks me up when teenagers claim to be “wise beyond their years” since it usually seems to be code for “I know everything, you can’t tell me what to do” like a toddler having a tantrum. If she was really as wise as she claims to be, she’d know better than to think this is a good plan. If she had early admission to Harvard it might make more sense, but still, becoming a de facto stepmom at 17?! 

I guessed correctly when Beth and Randall were playing the worst case scenario game!

This episode was disappointing. I thought we’d get the story of how Rebecca ended up marrying Miguel, but nope. Just hanging out on the couch watching Regis and going to one speed dating event. Geez, writers, you could have given us a little more than that!

Looks like they’re setting it up so Kevin ends up back with Sophie, but it could be a fakeout. Maybe he’ll meet a flight attendant, too. (Kidding, but who knows…)

Oh, and completely agree Kate deserved that slap.

[Pallas]

While attending a liberal arts college, Malik is taking a literature course. One course (so far as we know), in his freshman year. It's not unheard of. After he takes advantage of his chance to gain a good humanities or sciences education -- and a baccalaureate respected on sight -- there is plenty of time for him to pursue a career or professional training.

[txhorns79]

30 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Precious Randall is the one she wouldn't have slapped.

If Randall had said that, Rebecca probably would have cried, then agreed with him and never dated again. 

1 hour ago, BoogieBurns said:

 

My aunt let my cousin quit school at 17 to go be with her boyfriend (a decision made right after losing her virginity to him... so this storyline is very realistic to me!) and now that cousin is divorced from her crazy abusive husband (the high school boyfriend) AND she has no work experience or education. She is now 35 applying at Chick Fil A because her mom let her think with her hormones at 17. Bad bad parenting.

Even if we saw a flashforward to show Deja and Malik were a future power couple, I would still think what they are proposing is a terrible idea.  I hate to say it, but I was in complete agreement with Randall that these two need time apart.

[greekmom]

I need a future scene with future Deja thanks future Randall and Beth for not allowing her to follow through on her stupid plan and she's engaged to some other guy (in her medical class).

I rather see them agreeing for her to be allowed to go up and visit him on the occasional weekend and on birth control as long as she kept her grades up (and having them both get it that they can't manage school and a long distance relationship) than their stupid plan.

Edited February 2, 2022 by greekmom

[ifionlyknew]

The Deja Malik story might be more believable to me if Malik didn't look like he was 12.  It really takes me out of the story. And since it's a story I'm not enjoying it makes me really not care about it.

How many episodes are left?  Because it seems like we have a lot of ground to cover and they haven't moved the stories too much.  

[kitkat343]

 

11 hours ago, project90 said:

I thought it was her finishing high school early. Is there any difference to graduating and the GED? does it affect what you can do after school?

 

A GED can be used for admission into a community college or bachelor's degree program.  If a student graduates from community college or a bachelor's degree program, then it doesn't matter if they had a GED or a high school diploma because all employers will look at is their college degree.  If they drop out or don't attend community college, then the fact that they have a GED makes it a little harder to find employment than if they had a high school diploma, since most jobs consider graduating from high school to be a sign of a more reliable worker because you need to be persistent and attend school to graduate from high school (or you did before they allowed online credit recovery).  

What this really could affect is her college admission prospects.  A highly selective college would wonder why a student would leave school early without graduating, and "to follow my boyfriend" is not a good answer.  She can absolutely get into a community college, and possibly a less selective 4 year school with a GED, but it would certainly lessen her chances of admission to a selective college straight after high school unless she was doing something more impressive than taking care of her boyfriend's kid.  But it certainly is possible for a student to enroll in a community college, do well, transfer to a 4 year school and then apply to med school.  In California there is a pathway for automatic transfer into UC Davis, Irvine, Merced, Riverside, Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz for students who do well in community college (You need to apply for admission now to UC Berkeley and UCLA).  

I taught in the NYC public school system, and had a student once drop out because she got rejected by all her top choice schools.  At the time  she figured that since the best college she was accepted to was City College, she might as well drop out, get her GED, work for the spring semester of her high school senior year because she'd get into City College with a GED anyway.  This was 20 years ago, and I don't know if City College has changed their admissions requirements, but back then her plan worked and she enrolled the following fall at City College with her GED and savings from her spring and summer employment.  I told her she'd be fine as long as she graduated from college.  She's in trouble if she doesn't, because statistically employers consider GED recipients to be closer to high school dropouts in terms of hiring.  I know she enrolled in college, but don't know if she finished.

 

[himela]

14 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

Kevin needs therapy . He has no idea what he wants . 

He knows what he wants; to have a family like his parents. He just doesn't know how to get there.

[Jax7917]

4 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Deja grew up in a very unstable environment.  We can probably assume she went to an underserved school in a poor neighborhood.   In 3 years of living with the Pearson’s, she’s suddenly this brilliant student that can take 3 EXTRA AP courses along with her regular schedule?   AP courses are college level.   They are not easy.    And they don’t help you graduate early.  You still need 4 full years of English, 3 full years of math, etc in order to graduate.  You cannot just eliminate 1.5 years of high school in one semester.  And she would have had to come up with that plan before Malik ever left for school.  Also, what HS Junior has room in their daily schedule to take 3 extra course? 
 

I think Malik and Deja deserved a slap more than Kate did.  I wish for once Beth and Randall would just explode on Deja.  Randall always just walks away which would infuriate me if I was Beth.  And I love Beth but she lets her kids do whatever they want.  The middle girl is allowed to have a romantic partner in her room at the age of 12.  I don’t care if she’s straight or gay, not happening.  And now she going to let Deja move?  Deja is still a child and you are her parents. Sometimes parents have to say NO.  I think from the beginning they always encouraged this relationship way too much.  She had just gotten adopted and she was dating a boy two years older with a baby.  That’s when they should have said no.  
 

I think exploring more about how Deja fits into the family would have been much more interesting than adding Malik into the mix.  Show her doing normal teen things, pushing boundaries with curfews, drinking, etc and how that ties into her past life, rather than this stupid storyline with an 18 year old single dad raising a  baby and attending Harvard.  Makes no sense from a show with such usually great storytelling. 

I agree that Deja needed a slap except not instead of Kate, but in addition to her. One thing I hate about this show is how all the parents are constantly apologizing to their kids when their kids are acting like terrors. I notice this mostly with Rebecca but with Randall and Beth too. Kate calls her mom a slut , and Rebecca feels guilty for slapping her? Deja is lying and sneaking around and her parents tip toe around her and her feelings. This happens often with all of the parent/child dynamics on this show and it annoys me to no end.

The who will Kevin choose is getting kind of tiresome, but I am still curious about it. I feel that he's going to end up with Madison. It's not that he didn't love her, he just didn't really know her at the time they got engaged. I think he could have gotten there with her if they just got to hang out and get to know each other. But she got pregnant so the focus was all on the twins rather than each other. I feel like he's just now getting to know who she is, which I took from his phone call with her boyfriend at the end of the show. He knows her little quirks, things she likes, doesn't like, etc. I think the show is trying to show us that he's slowly falling in love with her

3 minutes ago, himela said:

He knows what he wants; to have a family like his parents. He just doesn't know how to get there.

But does he want a wife or does he just want somebody to fill the role? Jack and Rebecca loved each other. Kevin doesn't seem to care who the girl is, as long as he has a wife. 

[3 is enough]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

Help me out though - I don't understand the connection between Russian Literature and becoming a Michelin Chef. What am I missing? Or is that a disconnect on the show?

Maybe he wants to open a Russian-Soul Food fusion restaurant?  (Sorry, my husband has been watching a lot of Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives lately and I am amazed by some of the fusion options out there). 

My question is is he majoring in Russian Lit or was it just an elective course?  Because being a freshman I am guessing his choices for electives are pretty limited to whatever is open and fits in his schedule.

But yes, bad, bad, bad idea Deja and Malik.  

Kate is insufferable.  It's really hard for me to find any redeeming qualities in her.  Why not talk to Miguel and ask him to come along for babysitting duty so he can keep an eye on Rebecca and still let her feel like she is helping?

Tick tock.  We got the beginnings of Miguel-Rebecca, but time is running out and I need more.  If they end the show without telling that story I will be beyond angry.

Edited February 2, 2022 by 3 is enough

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

It reminded me of the Pierces on Succession and their parade of PhD toting family members who were in school for fun. Now that to me is an amazing luxury.

I don’t watch Succession but I’ve always said that if I had unlimited wealth, I’d get degrees for sheer love of learning. I love school, I love learning new things, and I would love to be able to pursue further  higher education without worrying about how it affects my employment prospects, or about incurring student loan debt.

I don’t know about Harvard’s requirements but my alma mater (also an Ivy) required us to take a bunch of stuff freshman and sophomore years that didn’t have anything to do with what I majored in. My friend majored in astrophysics and took Ancient History of Mesopotamia to fulfill her history requirement (and loved it). If Harvard has a lit requirement (and I’d guess so), Malik could be taking Russian lit to fill it. As someone said, Russian lit is just novels. And college is a time to explore subjects you might be interested in.

(Having said that, Malik should have gone to Penn and lived at home. Or if they had to have him leave, send him to Cornell because of their hospitality program, or send him to the Culinary Institute of America.)

Edited February 2, 2022 by Empress1

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, Malik taking a Russian Lit class as an elective isn't that weird. A lot of schools encourage freshman to take a lot of general studies classes for their first few semesters, they want them to get a broad education even outside of their major, and students will take more classes pertaining to their major once they have been in school for longer. Plus a lot of schools require students to take a certain amount of general classes and classes in areas like the arts, math, science, etc to make sure they are getting a complete education. My freshman year I was taking film studies, geology, archeology, kick boxing, a bunch of classes that I just found interesting, and focused more on classes pertaining to my major going into the second year. They encouraged students to take a lot of classes just for the love of learning and broadening students horizons. I am not sure about Harvard, but that's common at a lot of schools. Even ones focusing on things like the culinary arts.

Of course the real problem isn't Malik's interest in War and Peace or how it pertains to cooking, its that this show clearly has no clue how college works and are just trying to find easy ways to tell us how smart Malik is throwing things at him that we associate with smart people. If Malik wants to be a top chef, he shouldn't even be at Harvard, he should be at a top culinary academy, but the writers think that their audience isn't smart enough to understand that different careers are better served at different schools, so they stuck him at Harvard, which has a solid but not extremely well known cooking program, because the audience associates Harvard with smart people. They throw out that he's studying Russian Lit because we associate that with smart people. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Jillybean]

Re: Kevin, I don't see any way that Sophie would not be in the "getting ready" room with Kate, Madison and Beth at Kate's wedding if she were Kevin's partner at that point. My money is still on Madison, especially with her "I told you 12 times this morning!" comment.

I really don't like the whole Cassidy overseeing house construction plot though. That's an excuse for her to still be around. I also don't understand Nicky's qualifications to oversee construction.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jillybean

[Medicine Crow]

I've never been the kind to question the casting in my "shows", BUT Malik SO does not "fit the script".  Seeing him takes me right out of the scene.  He & Dega (sp?) are definitely NOT a match!!  (He's a short man who looks like a child.)

[Jax7917]

15 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Re: Kevin, I don't see any way that Sophie would not be in the "getting ready" room with Kate, Madison and Beth at Kate's wedding if she were Kevin's partner at that point. My money is still on Madison, especially with her "I told you 12 times this morning!" comment.

I really don't like the whole Cassidy overseeing house construction plot though. That's an excuse for her to still be around. I also don't understand Nicky's qualifications to oversee construction.

I thought about that too. But knowing this show, when they eventually show the full scene of the wedding, Sophie will pop out and just say she was in the bathroom. I do for the record think he will end up with Madison though.

[Tango64]

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Speaking for myself, I hate when people do that because that only leaves me with the options of either eating something I don't want or risk being perceived as an ungrateful jerk. And I would find it creepy and controlling if a man I was dating did that on a regular basis. When I say I don't want a smoothie, that means I don't want a smoothie.

I thought it was odd advice and that someone dealing with an eating disorder would specifically not want you to get them food when they say no. Especially something like a smoothie, just a big sugar bomb.

Anyone else think maybe Kevin understands this and was misleading the boyfriend to sabotage his relationship with Madison?

Edited February 2, 2022 by Tango64