S06.E05: Heart and Soul

[Tabbygirl521]

23 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am going to have to take back what I said about needing to see the Nicky/Edie love story.  Those two were hilarious tonight.  Far more enjoyable than Deja and Malik.  I'm going to regret saying this, Randall is right.  What's best for Deja is not quitting school and moving in with Malik.  She is wise beyond her years, but she does not need to sacrifice her youth for a guy and his daughter. Malik needs to set her free not tie her down with his responsibilities. 

I kept wanting Randall to ask Malik if that was the sort of life he would want for his own daughter at 17. 

[qtpye]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:08 PM, Blakeston said:

The message of this week's episode: Don't have children, because they're insufferable.

I have zero sympathy for Kate realizing that she lost a lot of time with her mother. That's what happens when you mistreat a loved one for twenty-something years.

 

On 2/1/2022 at 10:08 PM, Jax7917 said:

Kate called her mom a slut . She should have been slapped ! 

The ending montage at the piano was really nice . 
 

Kevin needs therapy . He has no idea what he wants . 

 

On 2/1/2022 at 10:11 PM, Scarlett45 said:

 

I haven’t seen the episode yet, but Kate has really treated her mother so HORRIBLY for a long time and I never understood it. I’m glad her disrespectful ass got slapped. 

 

On 2/1/2022 at 10:15 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am going to have to take back what I said about needing to see the Nicky/Edie love story.  Those two were hilarious tonight.  Far more enjoyable than Deja and Malik.  I'm going to regret saying this, Randall is right.  What's best for Deja is not quitting school and moving in with Malik.  She is wise beyond her years, but she does not need to sacrifice her youth for a guy and his daughter. Malik needs to set her free not tie her down with his responsibilities. 

 

On 2/1/2022 at 10:30 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Beth assigning Deja and Malik Romeo and Juliet characteristics was not helpful and rather morbid.  I don’t care enough about those characters to be bothered with what they do.   Just wasted space for me.

I was hoping to see more about the main characters and how that will lead to the future. I was disappointed that Kevin seemed so ambivalent.  He really does run hot and cold.  I did love the comment by Kevin to Niki when he said that it’d been a long while since he made love to a living woman…….🤣.  Kevin’s response was hysterical.  
 

Kate has blamed her mom for everything for most of the show…..until she got sick. Maybe that’s why  I’m not  big Kate fan.  
 

 
 

 

 

On 2/1/2022 at 10:32 PM, Rootbeer said:

For a kid who is supposedly 'wise beyond her years', Deja certainly makes immature decisions.  That any 17 year old would think that their parents would be ok with them quitting high school and getting a GED so that they can live with their boyfriend and his young child several hundred miles away is kind of mind boggling.  Like a lot of kids who have had poor parenting and difficult early years, Deja actually seems to be significantly less mature than most kids her age.  She certainly hasn't thought the plan through.  She claims she is taking a 'gap year' during which she will be living with Malik and presumably cooking, cleaning and providing child care while he goes to school.  That's not what a gap year is supposed to be.  If she's going to do that, she should be traveling, doing volunteer work, maybe learning a new skill like baking or painting or basket weaving.  I agree with Beth that there was no point in telling Malik to break up with Deja; he has a lot to gain if she comes to Boston and a lot to lose if she doesn't; Randall isn't going to change his mind.  However, it would've been nice for someone to remember that there is a whole lot of distance between allowing your sexually active 17 year old to live with her boyfriend and his kid several hundred miles away and simply acknowledging that they have made the decision to have a sexual relationship and no objections from her parents are going to change that.

Then again, since Malik/Deja is the least interesting relationship on the show to me; perhaps they should run away to Boston-and stay there.   This isn't 90210, the star crossed teens storyline just doesn't work in this show.

I thought the montage at the end with Kate and her mother at the piano was really sweet.  It was also more than high time that Kate apologized to Rebecca for being so horrible to her for so many years.

 

22 hours ago, Artsda said:

I liked Cassidy telling Kevin about a blonde and he didn't even know which one she was talking about. I really really hope they're not setting up a Sophie return. 

For some reason Harvard with a child and his own apartment Malik I expected more common sense. Really having your highschool girlfriend get her GED and leave her home to come move in with you? I guess he's looking for live in girlfriend to help him cook/clean/look after his daughter so he can study and do his school work.  He needs a nanny or child care, not a 17 year old. 

Deja's just insufferable. She doesn't know how lucky she was to get adopted by a family, who have done and treated her the way they have. She   wants to go at 17 and move with her boyfriend? Randall and Beth should say, "ok." How is she supporting herself? How is she paying for college? Let her go.

Kate deserved the slap, she was not wanting to go to college living at home with mom and calling her a slut for one date?

Kate has said that she resented Rebecca being so beautiful and Jack always backed Kate up with everything she did. because his princess could do no wrong.

However, I am pleased they have given some character growth but I wish it was before the final season. I am happy  that she is finally appreciating her flawed but incredibly loving mother instead of worshiping her long dead father.

I think Malik is a selfish asshole. He should be encouraging Deja to finish school and not base her life around him like she is Ally McBeal.

This is nothing but a win for him. He gets free childcare, probably house cleaning, and sex for absolutely no sacrifice on his part.

I would tell Deja that she will get absolutely no financial support if she goes this route. He also seems to let his baby mama walk all over him. Of course, on this show, Randall will probably put them up in a luxury apartment with a nanny.

[bros402]

With Mailk, I have to imagine that the Russian Lit class is an elective. However, an elective in the first semester? That is just odd.

 

16 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Deja grew up in a very unstable environment.  We can probably assume she went to an underserved school in a poor neighborhood.   In 3 years of living with the Pearson’s, she’s suddenly this brilliant student that can take 3 EXTRA AP courses along with her regular schedule?   AP courses are college level.   They are not easy.    And they don’t help you graduate early.  You still need 4 full years of English, 3 full years of math, etc in order to graduate.  You cannot just eliminate 1.5 years of high school in one semester.  And she would have had to come up with that plan before Malik ever left for school.  Also, what HS Junior has room in their daily schedule to take 3 extra course? 

Before being adopted, Deja went to went to school in Newark - the Newark schools have improved quite a lot in the last decade, so Deja was getting a decent education (and remember, NJ is best in the country for education). Newark is also an Abbott District, so there would've been funding with that - along with McKinney-Vento. I have to imagine that Deja stayed late at afterschool care so her mom could work - so she would have had time to learn.

Also, yeah - I have no idea how Deja would magically be able to graduate early. I know at one point they moved her up a grade, but that still doesn't mean she can graduate a grade early, since you can't just test out of classes. I know in the land of fiction, schools have study hall or whatever, so maybe she'd give up a study hall to take a class? But that still wouldn't get her past a required class, as she would most likely be taking the pre-requisite.

[himela]

7 hours ago, madmax said:

How is Rebecca trying to change her?  

Trying to make her lose the weight. Rebecca never accepted her obese daughter.

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, himela said:

Trying to make her lose the weight. Rebecca never accepted her obese daughter.

It was only in S1 when Rebecca tried to get Kate to lose weight; the storyline was dropped after the negative backlash. Since then Rebecca had been nothing but supportive, even when Kate started gaining weight after Jack's death.

[Kirkydee]

Lots of good one liners in this one.  Plenty have been mentioned.  But the one that had me cracking up was the last speed dater

Speed dater-  " I have a ferrett"

Rebecca-  " Oooooohhh"

Anybody watch The 40 year old Virgin?  That speed dating reminded me of Steve Carrell going around the table at the assortment of women

What year is the fast forward at the cabin. About 10 years from now? Because if so I don't get the 'Kate and Rebecca have little time'.  Ten good years to spend quality time with each other and bonding with grandchildren.  Although we have no idea what year Rebecca will be incapacitated 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Kirkydee

[Marley]

I wish Rebecca would’ve kept slapping Kate. Kate is such a miserable person. Should Rebecca have just laid in bed crying for the rest of her life. I get she was close with her dad but she’s just such a jerk.

I wanted more Miguel and Rebecca. I don’t give a fuck about stupid Deja and Malik and their dumb love story. I’ve never liked Deja and Malik annoys me and he looks like a 12 year old and kind of like a turtle somehow lol.

I also don’t care about Madison and her new guy. What a waste of time.

Kevin calling to talk to him wasn't sweet to me it was weird and overstepping.

8 episodes in and this season has sucked and I feel like nothing is happening.

 

[himela]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It was only in S1 when Rebecca tried to get Kate to lose weight; the storyline was dropped after the negative backlash. Since then Rebecca had been nothing but supportive, even when Kate started gaining weight after Jack's death.

To be honest I don't remember the backlash you are referring to. Still I think that Rebecca used to have a problem with Kate's weight. I think she still has. She is her mother, she must be concerned about her health.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, PRgal said:

Wife #3, huh?  Anyone who married more than twice and NOT due to the death of a spouse has issues…

I think that led to some of his anti Kevin getting with someone his doesn't love, he probably feels a little guilty having his love life in the news (really don't know much about it though) and said Kevin made mistakes but shouldn't sell out because of it. Just like himself....

[Kreegah]

4 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

What year is the fast forward at the cabin. About 10 years from now? Because if so I don't get the 'Kate and Rebecca have little time'.  Ten good years to spend quality time with each other and bonding with grandchildren.  Although we have no idea what year Rebecca will be incapacitated 

We know that, but they don't at that moment. They've said, Rebecca state already started getting a bit worse.
That's just it... it's never too early to start making amends, cause we never know, just how much time we have left, more so with a disease involved.
 

[Crs97]

To me, never accepting your obese daughter and being concerned for her health are two very different things.  I’m not sure why Rebecca is getting criticized for the latter.

 

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

I know in the land of fiction, schools have study hall or whatever, so maybe she'd give up a study hall to take a class? But that still wouldn't get her past a required class, as she would most likely be taking the pre-requisite.

Is regular study hall actually a thing? I had "study hall" twice in high school, for a week each time, because I had a doctor's note to be out of gym class (sprained ankle and ear surgery, respectively), so I got to sit in a room and do homework or read. There were other kids in there but I don't think they were there all year, either.

[marceline]

I'm calling it now. Whatever accident happens to Jack with the barbecue grill, happens when he's with Rebecca. That would explain how it blew up their marriage.

Edited February 3, 2022 by marceline

[smartymarty]

13 hours ago, Empress1 said:

If he was THAT in love with Deja that he couldn't bear to be apart from her, he could have gone to one of the five local schools he got into (I think it was five).

Didn't he choose Boston because his daughter's mother's family moved there? (Though, why did her family move her away from her daughter?).

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Didn't he choose Boston because his daughter's mother's family moved there? (Though, why did her family move her away from her daughter?).

Malik's baby momma (for lack of a better word) gave up custody of Janelle at birth.  She moved to Boston at some point and had a change of heart about Janelle.  She now wants to be in her life, so Malik being the stand up guy the writers want us to believe decides to go to college in the Boston area.  It's incredibly short sighted to give up your support system because Jennifer now wants to be a part of Janelle's life.  I wish we could have seen something with Malik's parents as they lay out all of the reasons not to do what he did.  Because the writers had to make Jennifer the stereotypical baby momma.  With the way they have written her, it's only a matter of time before Jennifer nopes out again from Janelle's life leaving Malik and Deja struggling to pick up the pieces.  

[smartymarty]

8 hours ago, bros402 said:

With Mailk, I have to imagine that the Russian Lit class is an elective. However, an elective in the first semester? That is just odd.

Also, yeah - I have no idea how Deja would magically be able to graduate early.

It was 35 years ago, but I went to a liberal arts college modeled on Harvard's curriculum requirements. I only had one required course my first semester, an English lit course (and I tested out of the "101" one into the "102" one), which my school probably required because it emphasized all students, regardless of major, being able to write effectively.

I could have graduated a semester early in high school. I was put in an advanced math class in junior high so had completed all math requirements by the end of junior year, and I doubled up on English lit class in fall of senior year. So, eligible to graduate and qualified to apply to colleges even without any AP classes.

Yes, Beth is still a mother to Deja, but the amount of authority one should assert over a 17 year old is far different from a 2, 10 or 13 year old. I agree with the poster who said they just should have had a conversation about logistics and scenarios like "what if you break up?" In other words, guide Deja through the realities of her decision. Much better than Randall encouraging Malik to break up with her.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Is regular study hall actually a thing? I had "study hall" twice in high school, for a week each time, because I had a doctor's note to be out of gym class (sprained ankle and ear surgery, respectively), so I got to sit in a room and do homework or read. There were other kids in there but I don't think they were there all year, either.

Yes regular study hall is a thing. In many high schools its an "open" period, where kids can hang out in the lounge or whatever if your grades are high enough and you don't have discipline issues. But for other kids (or freshmen) its study hall. These days I assume kids surf the net on their devices and perhaps do homework. I used it for homework (I graduated HS in 2003)

32 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Didn't he choose Boston because his daughter's mother's family moved there? (Though, why did her family move her away from her daughter?).

 

21 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Malik's baby momma (for lack of a better word) gave up custody of Janelle at birth.  She moved to Boston at some point and had a change of heart about Janelle.  She now wants to be in her life, so Malik being the stand up guy the writers want us to believe decides to go to college in the Boston area.  It's incredibly short sighted to give up your support system because Jennifer now wants to be a part of Janelle's life.  I wish we could have seen something with Malik's parents as they lay out all of the reasons not to do what he did.  Because the writers had to make Jennifer the stereotypical baby momma.  With the way they have written her, it's only a matter of time before Jennifer nopes out again from Janelle's life leaving Malik and Deja struggling to pick up the pieces.  

Exactly what @Ohiopirate02 said. I think it would've been wiser for Malik to come up with a visitation plan for for Jennifer (the mom) to visit with Janelle. She gave up custody and moved away, he is the primary caregiver, he should not have to uproot his life so she can have visitation. She could've come down a weekend a month and seen Janelle, with Malik keeping his support system which was very valuable to him as am 18yrs old single dad.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Is regular study hall actually a thing? I had "study hall" twice in high school, for a week each time, because I had a doctor's note to be out of gym class (sprained ankle and ear surgery, respectively), so I got to sit in a room and do homework or read. There were other kids in there but I don't think they were there all year, either.

I always assumed it was a spare/free period.  We called them “spares” here and you’re technically supposed to be in the library or the senior common room, not loitering in the hall or signing yourself off campus unless you had the final period off 

[kili]

Quote

 I agree with the poster who said they just should have had a conversation about logistics and scenarios like "what if you break up?" In other words, guide Deja through the realities of her decision. Much better than Randall encouraging Malik to break up with her.

Won't Deja's answer to "what if you break up?" be "Why do you keep doubting our relationship? Why don't you trust me?"

Deja and Malik seem so invested in this plan that whatever the parents say, won't they just keep thinking they have this? Their epic love will smooth over all difficulties and they don't need much. Deja has already lived in poverty and a car, she'll believe that she can live through any financial problems. Plus, she will have a job.

This is the girl who wanted to stay with her mother because she loved her and that was enough. The mother that kept putting boyfriends before Deja (using their rent money to bail them out and holding guns for them). The mother who failed to get it together for years and Deja had to try to keep the household running. Deja already expects nothing from her loved ones and to have to sacrifice her everything.

Deja is so determined and Malik is drowning so he's not seeing what he's asking of somebody he supposedly loves.

IDK. If Deja and Malik are go through with this hair-brained scheme, what should Beth and Randall do? Do they cut her off financially and hope the hard realities wake them up? Do they provide minimal financing to keep the channels open and hope the hard realities wake them up? Do they provide maximum financing to avoid Deja having to face realities no 17 year old should face? Sometimes teens are impervious to logic and have to make their own mistakes. And a miracle could occur and this all works out.

[Scarlett45]

Just now, kili said:

DK. If Deja and Malik are go through with this hair-brained scheme, what should Beth and Randall do? Do they cut her off financially and hope the hard realities wake them up? Do they provide minimal financing to keep the channels open and hope the hard realities wake them up? Do they provide maximum financing to avoid Deja having to face realities no 17 year old should face? Sometimes teens are impervious to logic and have to make their own mistakes. And a miracle could occur and this all works out.

I don't think Randall and Beth should let her do this. She is a minor, they are legally responsible for her. Tell her NO. No is a complete sentence. 

If she runs away and tries to get emancipated, I would cross that bridge when they got to it. As far as financial support- I would get Deja an IUD/implanon (or another long term contraceptive) and keep her cell phone on in case she wants to call home. Other than that, no funds and see what happens.

[Mr.Mango]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:43 PM, KaveDweller said:

Deja's plan made no sense. She claimed she would be graduating early, but then talked about taking her GED? If she is graduating early she doesn't need to take the GED? Now if she had actually applied to some college in Boston and gotten in, then maybe she could have convinced Beth and Randall to let her start college early and move to Boston for her own schooling. Just moving to shack up with Malik is such a bad plan.

I liked Kevin and Cassidy, but agree with her that they aren't a good fit. I'd rather he meet someone new, but I don't think we have time for that. 

And doubling up on AP classes doesn't give you more credits or allow you to graduate early (at least where I live).

[Empress1]

47 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't think Randall and Beth should let her do this. She is a minor, they are legally responsible for her. Tell her NO. No is a complete sentence. 

If she runs away and tries to get emancipated, I would cross that bridge when they got to it. As far as financial support- I would get Deja an IUD/implanon (or another long term contraceptive) and keep her cell phone on in case she wants to call home. Other than that, no funds and see what happens.

I agree. “No, you can’t move to Boston to live with your boyfriend. You’re underage.” If they want to keep dating, they can date long-distance and she can look at colleges in Boston (there are a million of them) in her senior year; if the love is that real it’ll survive a year of distance. But I think Randall and Beth should forbid this.

[Mr.Mango]

54 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I always assumed it was a spare/free period.  We called them “spares” here and you’re technically supposed to be in the library or the senior common room, not loitering in the hall or signing yourself off campus unless you had the final period off 

Yes, study hall is a thing. You can sign up for study hall as one of your classes. You go to a class full of other kids in study hall, a teacher is in charge. Some kids do homework, some get a pass to leave and some kids just chat with friends. 

 

[evansmom10]

18 hours ago, jrzy said:

It drives me crazy that no-one ever finishes a meal on television!  so I loved to see Beth eating that danged pie!  

Seriously, I felt bad the girls couldn't finish their gnocchi and I wanted to reach through the screen and finish it all + the wine.

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Malik's baby momma (for lack of a better word) gave up custody of Janelle at birth.  She moved to Boston at some point and had a change of heart about Janelle.  She now wants to be in her life, so Malik being the stand up guy the writers want us to believe decides to go to college in the Boston area.  It's incredibly short sighted to give up your support system because Jennifer now wants to be a part of Janelle's life.  I wish we could have seen something with Malik's parents as they lay out all of the reasons not to do what he did.  Because the writers had to make Jennifer the stereotypical baby momma.  With the way they have written her, it's only a matter of time before Jennifer nopes out again from Janelle's life leaving Malik and Deja struggling to pick up the pieces.  

"Malik's child's mother" "the mother of Malik's child" 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, evansmom10 said:

Seriously, I felt bad the girls couldn't finish their gnocchi and I wanted to reach through the screen and finish it all + the wine.

I don't know why Tess and Annie did not take their plates with them.  I guess Malik's food isn't really that good.  

[JudyObscure]

18 hours ago, jrzy said:

It drives me crazy that no-one ever finishes a meal on television! 

It's not the first time those poor girls have been sent away from the table with their meals just started.  Beth or Randall should have told Deja, "You're too young to know that you're supposed to wait and  drop your bombshells after dinner and you're too young to leave home and go live with your boyfriend. Pass the rolls."

[cameron]

18 minutes ago, evansmom10 said:

Seriously, I felt bad the girls couldn't finish their gnocchi and I wanted to reach through the screen and finish it all + the wine.

"Malik's child's mother" "the mother of Malik's child" 

Definitely Malik's baby momma.

[cameron]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:08 PM, Jax7917 said:

Kate called her mom a slut . She should have been slapped ! 

The ending montage at the piano was really nice . 
 

Kevin needs therapy . He has no idea what he wants . 

Just rewatched the show and I would have gladly slapped Kate also.

[Aloeonatable]

7 hours ago, Marley said:

8 episodes in and this season has sucked and I feel like nothing is happening.

 

This episode is only #5, not 8. There are 13 more episodes to finish any unfinished storylines.

 

I have a dear friend who has dementia and he was diagnosed a few years ago. He still drives. Usually only locally to places near his home, and his wife drives if they have to go to an unfamiliar destination. On the other hand, my mother-in-law also suffered with dementia, & in one instance drove for hours in the wrong direction before turning around to go home. She also had several fender benders before we took her car away.  Rebecca may have a few more years before there is a noticeable decline in her ability to drive. 

 

[ljenkins782]

6 hours ago, himela said:

To be honest I don't remember the backlash you are referring to. Still I think that Rebecca used to have a problem with Kate's weight. I think she still has. She is her mother, she must be concerned about her health.

And in fairness, she should be concerned. This isn't a case of someone who's a little chubby or not fitting a certain beauty ideal, Kate/Chrissy's weight is a genuine health risk.  

That aside, I really liked the Kate/Rebecca stuff in this episode. It all felt extremely realistic, even if it isn't technically "right." Kids struggle with parents dating after divorce, so seeing a parent date after the death of a beloved parent would definitely stir up strong feelings. It doesn't make Rebecca wrong for needing to move on, but I can't fault a teenage girl who's devastated by her father's death for being so upset at the idea of her mom dating.

And Kate having to tell Rebecca that they didn't trust her babysitting alone was wrenching too. They aren't wrong at all and if something had happened, they'd never forgive themselves, but how awful to have to say those words. I don't think I'd be able to do it, I'd probably just find excuses to avoid it or make sure Miguel was always there. Especially when they've finally hit that good place in their relationship. I've had that kind of mellowing later in life (but with siblings) and it always makes me sad that we couldn't have gotten along when we actually lived together.

Deja/Malik...oof.  I can see where Beth is coming from, but they were in college together, in the same place at the same time. And I'm not sure why 1 more year matters so much that Deja would upend her entire life. I mean, I do get that teenagers think their first relationships are the hugest deal ever, but the logistics alone are formidable. and the disapproval of Beth and Randall is yet another hurdle.

I enjoyed the lack of Madison/twins and that there wasn't too much other non-family content. The Rebecca and Miguel stuff was fun, Rebecca utterly blowing it at speed dating was funny. Though TBH, as pretty as Mandy Moore is, IRL, I bet she'd have left with 15 numbers anyway. 

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, cameron said:

Definitely Malik's baby momma.

I went with that term because that is how Jennifer is being written.  

[Janie430]

So I agree Kate spent a lot of time resenting her mother for no reason, but Rebecca and Kate had some issues in Season 1 and 2 that the show backed away from. 

Rebecca's mom had control and weight issues (ordering Rebecca a Tab instead of a coke and insisting she have a salad), and there was a sense from a couple of episodes that Rebecca complained about being "heavy" when she was very thin (I think Jack swung her around and she said 'Don't, I'm too heavy').  Plus, it was clear that instead of feeding all the kids healthy foods, the boys got sugary cereals and Kate didn't.  It's also clear that Jack was sneaking Kate food treats all the time and encouraging her to lie to Rebecca about it.  Which was horrible of him, because it meant that Kate grew up not being able to be open with Rebecca. 

I would say that Randall was Rebecca's favorite, and Kate was the child she was most worried about.  But sometimes in trying to help our troubled children, we do inadvertent damage, if we have our own issues driving it.    

It's interesting that one of the things I see in Kate and Kevin is that they don't seem to trust themselves emotionally, but they also have taken a long time to get to where they trust Rebecca emotionally.  At the point of the flashback, Kate just got out of an abusive relationship and had an abortion and didn't want to tell her mother anything.  Heck, it's not clear she told Kevin about the abortion at the time.

 

[kili]

Quote

Beth or Randall should have told Deja, "You're too young to know that you're supposed to wait and  drop your bombshells after dinner 

Well, in all fairness to Deja, it was her plan to wait until dessert to drop the bombshell. That's what the strategy meeting with Tess and Annie was. They were to jump in and divert the topic during dinner so that the plan could be presented after most of the eating was done. It was Beth who rejected all TACTICS and insisted that Deja spill whatever she was trying to keep secret.

"When are you gonna tell them?

We're thinking right before dessert. Malik's making blueberry pie."

The blueberry pie could be significant. That was a plot of one of the episodes when Randall was campaigning and he had to get a blueberry pie (but they were sold out, so somebody else gave him their blueberry pie). Beth can't start the New Year without a blueberry pie as a family tradition. So, does it signify Deja/Malik wanting to start a new era or do they just know Beth really likes blueberry pie? In any event, blueberry pie did turn out to be comfort food for Beth while waiting for Randall to come back inside.

[cameron]

52 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I went with that term because that is how Jennifer is being written.  

And you are definitely right in using that term.

[Tango64]

I know a lot has been said already about the Malik actor looking way too young, but I have to add that I was shocked by the scene where Randall is sitting on the steps and Malik comes out to join him. Malik looked so small! Guess I'd never realized that in addition to his very youthful face, he's of quite a small stature. It was very obvious next to Randall.

Nothing against guys of smaller stature -- my hound dog, ladies' man dad was quite short -- but in the context of this show and story line, it makes it even harder for me to take the Malik/Deja situation seriously. The actual actor could be in the same situation in real life, of course, so it's not implausible but it just adds another distraction to an already hard-to-believe plot line when the college man looks like he's 12.

Seems like the Malik actor could make a good living playing characters much younger, like on one of those high school shows. But I suppose he's doing alright for himself.

[Gabs66]

14 hours ago, PRgal said:

Wife #3, huh?  Anyone who married more than twice and NOT due to the death of a spouse has issues…

I am my husband's third wife. #1 left him for a woman, #2 choose alcohol and a lover. He is a wonderful, loving, attentive man and I am lucky to have found him at 56 years old. Don't generalize.

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, Gabs66 said:

I am my husband's third wife. #1 left him for a woman, #2 choose alcohol and a lover. He is a wonderful, loving, attentive man and I am lucky to have found him at 56 years old. Don't generalize.

Yup. 100%.  And even if there aren't extenuating circumstances, sometimes love fades and sometimes things just don't work out. Nothing wrong with parting ways and finding happiness with someone else (no matter how many times).

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Janie430 said:

So I agree Kate spent a lot of time resenting her mother for no reason, but Rebecca and Kate had some issues in Season 1 and 2 that the show backed away from. 

Rebecca's mom had control and weight issues (ordering Rebecca a Tab instead of a coke and insisting she have a salad), and there was a sense from a couple of episodes that Rebecca complained about being "heavy" when she was very thin (I think Jack swung her around and she said 'Don't, I'm too heavy').  Plus, it was clear that instead of feeding all the kids healthy foods, the boys got sugary cereals and Kate didn't.  It's also clear that Jack was sneaking Kate food treats all the time and encouraging her to lie to Rebecca about it.  Which was horrible of him, because it meant that Kate grew up not being able to be open with Rebecca. 

I would say that Randall was Rebecca's favorite, and Kate was the child she was most worried about.  But sometimes in trying to help our troubled children, we do inadvertent damage, if we have our own issues driving it.    

It's interesting that one of the things I see in Kate and Kevin is that they don't seem to trust themselves emotionally, but they also have taken a long time to get to where they trust Rebecca emotionally.  At the point of the flashback, Kate just got out of an abusive relationship and had an abortion and didn't want to tell her mother anything.  Heck, it's not clear she told Kevin about the abortion at the time.

 

I have been spending the last year or so reading up on fat activism, and some of the stuff Rebecca did in her attempts to help Kate are actually harmful.  The grapefruit instead of sugary cereal being a prime example.  That is the kind of stuff that sticks with a person even decades later because it came from a good place.  You can brush off the rude responses far easier than the ones that come from a loved one who is trying to help.  

[qtpye]

 

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Malik's baby momma (for lack of a better word) gave up custody of Janelle at birth.  She moved to Boston at some point and had a change of heart about Janelle.  She now wants to be in her life, so Malik being the stand up guy the writers want us to believe decides to go to college in the Boston area.  It's incredibly short sighted to give up your support system because Jennifer now wants to be a part of Janelle's life.  I wish we could have seen something with Malik's parents as they lay out all of the reasons not to do what he did.  Because the writers had to make Jennifer the stereotypical baby momma.  With the way they have written her, it's only a matter of time before Jennifer nopes out again from Janelle's life leaving Malik and Deja struggling to pick up the pieces.  

I feel like the writers want us to see Malik as some sort of hero because he takes care of his child.

To quote Chris Rock (not an exact quote), "What do you want a cookie...you are supposed to take care of your children".

Malik should not have had unprotected sex at a young age. Also, he could have chosen adoption, even if that is hard. I am a person of color and understand that it is harder for black and brown children to get adopted but an adorable little baby like Janelle would probably find a good home fairly easily. Also, transracial adoption (like Randall) is getting more common.

There are also options for open adoptions where the biological parents can still be part of the child's life.

If Malik was really a good guy he would encourage Deja to finish school and focus on her own goals.

Of course, he wants her as a babysitter, sex partner, and housekeeper. Deja also comes from a family with money (at least upper-middle class) which does not hurt. He knows that Janelle's biological mother can bounce at any minute.

Whenever Deja will complain he will call her selfish for not putting Janelle's needs ahead of her own.  A girl Deja's age is not ready for the demands of being a stepmother to his child, no matter how "wise beyond her years" she claims to be.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

On the other hand, my mother-in-law also suffered with dementia, & in one instance drove for hours in the wrong direction before turning around to go home.

This was the incident for someone in my family that caused the rest of the family to be like, OK, no more driving, he can’t be alone (his wife had passed years before), etc. Like, the “this is real and serious” incident.

44 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

Seems like the Malik actor could make a good living playing characters much younger, like on one of those high school shows. But I suppose he's doing alright for himself.

He was in the Netflix series “When They See Us” playing a 14-year-old. He really does look young.

[madmax]

8 hours ago, himela said:

To be honest I don't remember the backlash you are referring to. Still I think that Rebecca used to have a problem with Kate's weight. I think she still has. She is her mother, she must be concerned about her health.

 

6 hours ago, Crs97 said:

To me, never accepting your obese daughter and being concerned for her health are two very different things.  I’m not sure why Rebecca is getting criticized for the latter.

 

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

And in fairness, she should be concerned. This isn't a case of someone who's a little chubby or not fitting a certain beauty ideal, Kate/Chrissy's weight is a genuine health risk.  

I agree 100%.  My youngest son started tipping the scales at 220 when he was only 14 and he wasn't tall enough to carry it.  I started cooking a little healthier and yes, I might have nudged him not to take a second helping a time or two.  But then he realized on his own that he was too heavy and put himself on a diet.  He's now 6'3" and 190 and looks damn good in his dress blues. 😁

There's a difference between overweight and obese and even morbidly obese.  I'm sorry to say, Kate/Chrissy fits in that last category and I think Rebecca would be remiss if she wasn't concerned.

50 minutes ago, Gabs66 said:

I am my husband's third wife. #1 left him for a woman, #2 choose alcohol and a lover. He is a wonderful, loving, attentive man and I am lucky to have found him at 56 years old. Don't generalize.

My mother was married 3 times.  Two divorces (my dad and Asshole step-father #) until she found the love of her life at 54 (who was younger than 3 of her children).  They were together about 20 years before he passed away.  So yeah, no generalizations.

[himela]

9 hours ago, Marley said:

I wish Rebecca would’ve kept slapping Kate. Kate is such a miserable person. Should Rebecca have just laid in bed crying for the rest of her life. I get she was close with her dad but she’s just such a jerk.

That's too cruel for a kid who lost her beloved dad at 17.

[himela]

45 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

You can brush off the rude responses far easier than the ones that come from a loved one who is trying to help.  

The road to hell is paved with good intention.

[marceline]

1 hour ago, kili said:

Well, in all fairness to Deja, it was her plan to wait until dessert to drop the bombshell. That's what the strategy meeting with Tess and Annie was. They were to jump in and divert the topic during dinner so that the plan could be presented after most of the eating was done. It was Beth who rejected all TACTICS and insisted that Deja spill whatever she was trying to keep secret.

I LOVED Beth calling out the tactics. Tess managed to distract Randall but Beth wasn't having it.

[qtpye]

33 minutes ago, madmax said:

 

 

I agree 100%.  My youngest son started tipping the scales at 220 when he was only 14 and he wasn't tall enough to carry it.  I started cooking a little healthier and yes, I might have nudged him not to take a second helping a time or two.  But then he realized on his own that he was too heavy and put himself on a diet.  He's now 6'3" and 190 and looks damn good in his dress blues. 😁

There's a difference between overweight and obese and even morbidly obese.  I'm sorry to say, Kate/Chrissy fits in that last category and I think Rebecca would be remiss if she wasn't concerned.

My mother was married 3 times.  Two divorces (my dad and Asshole step-father #) until she found the love of her life at 54 (who was younger than 3 of her children).  They were together about 20 years before he passed away.  So yeah, no generalizations.

Your son is damn grateful that you helped him learn healthy habits before his weight began to affect his quality of life. Compare this to Jack, who secretly went out for ice cream with Kate every day in the summer so he could come off like a big hero to her.

I like the actress that plays Kate, a lot. I also know that Kate is much more than her weight. However, to pretend that Kate, at her size, would have no mobility issues, particularly with running around after two small children are doing a giant disservice to depicting the realities of those who are morbidly obese.

Edited February 3, 2022 by qtpye

[cameron]

Find it interesting that Kevin and Cassidy just hop in the car to go get ice cream.  Thought that the cabin was quite in a secluded area.

[Tango64]

22 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I like the actress that plays Kate, a lot. I also know that Kate is much more than her weight. However, to pretend that Kate, at her size, would have no mobility issues, particularly with running around after two small children are doing a giant disservice to depicting the realities of those who are morbidly obese.

Agree. It's like this is a part of her story they've just decided to pretend does not exist. Maybe the actress doesn't want that depicted? In reality, it would be a big part of her life and a struggle. Not the entirety of who she is, but to ignore it completely seems false.

I say this as a big person (not as big as Kate) who is lamenting how some things are more difficult and limiting now at my size and as I get older. It's a real part of life they've chosen to conspicuously omit.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Tango64
typo

[marceline]

4 hours ago, Tango64 said:

Agree. It's like this is a part of her story they've just decided to pretend does not exist. Maybe the actress doesn't want that depicted? In reality, it would be a big part of her life and a struggle. Not the entirety of who she is, but to ignore it completely seems false.

Season one made all of Kate's stories about her weight. Frankly I was sick and tired of hearing about it but now they've gone in the complete opposite direction. I'm assuming there's a behind-the-scene reason for that. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by marceline

[PRgal]

I finally finished the episode.  I need to teach my 3 year old how to play piano now.  We haven't really done much music other than singing along with Coco Melon videos (lol).....

p.s. Randall was probably joking about Romeo and Juliet.  Because Kate MUST have forced him (and Kevin) to sit through Leo and Claire...Because every girl (other than yours truly) was OBSESSED.  

[qtpye]

12 minutes ago, marceline said:

Season one made all of Kate's stories about her weight. Frankly I was tired of hearing about her weight but now they've gone in the complete opposite direction. I'm assuming there's a behind-the-scene reason for that. 

Yes, it is like all or nothing with the show's writers. They do not seem to be able to find a happy medium with this issue.

I am happy that adorable little baby Jack is going to grow up to be so handsome and successful in the future, but it strangely gives me no investment in his upbringing.

Whenever they are worried about Jack, I just want to yell out "he's going to be fine" which is a ridiculous thing to say in their timeline. They have no idea about what I, as an audience member, already know.

I am also one of the few that hope Kevin ends up with no one. 

I think it is wonderful if people find a person to share their life with.  However, being single does not have to mean you are destined to be miserable. You can still have a great life, particularly if you are surrounded by loving family and friends.

They even paired Nicky up with someone great.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by qtpye