S05.E12: Both Things Can Be True

[cameron]

I'm so over Uncle Nicky and all his issues.  Showing up unannounced on Kevin's doorstep and now living somewhere in the LA area and trying to takeover the reversal dinner.

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Loved the moment with Toby and little Jack: “I wanna rock!” “No.”

Best part of the show.  Gotta love toddlers' honesty.

Worst thing?  The totally cliche ring stuck on the finger thing.  Oh, writers.  At least they made up for it by having Miguel give a great speech in defense of Jack to his FIL.  And not even a Pearson at that.  On the other hand, another Pearson (Randall) declines to speechify at his support group.  Baby steps.

Love Nicky (although he was being a brat this episode, but thankfully apologized) and love Miguel.  And every week I love Madison more.  Love Beth too but am not interested in her drama with Tess.  (Eek!  Tess is only 12??)

Ha!  The Pearson mojo did not work on Kate's boss.  I may come to love him too but he was being a jerk.

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Ugh.  They had to end the episode with Sophie looking wistful after reading about Kevin's engagement. 

I thought all his exes looked happy for him.  I was surprised they got Alex Breckenridge to do a cameo since she's busy with her own show.

Wow.  There was a lot going on in this episode.  Everyone got a bit of screentime.

[greekmom]

8 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I have zero sympathy for someone who tells their family that she wishes she never met them, and is now disappointed that they don't want to be in her life.

Would it kill the show to feature one person who was raised by people who didn't look like them, and yet doesn't consider their childhood a disaster? They are out there!

This.  Her comments really bothered me.  I mean say hypothetically she got to stay with her bi-polar mom.  She would have essentially been her mom's caretaker until social services stepped in, taking her from her home and putting her up in foster care which she would have gone through the system until either a) aged out or b) adopted.   So that would have been better than the loving home she ended up in?  Same with Randall.  If the Pearsons had not adopted him, he would have either gone through the system till he aged out or was adopted. Or if William did come back, he would have grown up with a drug addicted dad (William didn't clean up right away).  

I do read alot of foster books such as Cathy Glass, Maggie Hartley, Angela Hart, etc.  Yes the bond even of an abusive parent is still very strong despite what bio parent does to the child. I also saw a great documentary on fostering.  The one that stuck out was a single POC female who had fostered a few children, a couple with special needs and one with a non POC little girl.  The little girl seemed very happy and well adjusted being in a home with people who didn't look like her. So I don't know if show is being unrealistic or portraying a small fraction of a group.

[Trillian]

9 hours ago, memememe76 said:

And having the adoptees be from different backgrounds allow for the experience to be similar to Randall’s but slightly different. I mean, has there been a tv show or movie featuring a birth parent and child reuniting but don’t share the same language? That is an interesting perspective I never considered. 

Not the main plot of the movie, but Lion came to mind immediately. Beautiful, heart wrenching  and true.  

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, mtlchick said:

First season: ugh, Miguel.

Now, YES, MIGUEL! 
Nicky put a lot of bad energy into something that 1) he knew nothing about and 2) he had ample opportunity to make amends with Jack but didn’t. At least they made up at the end. 
 

Nicky did reach out to Jack.  He sent Jack dozens of postcards to Jack's office that went unanswered.  Nicky may have chickened out back in 197whatever, but Nicky obviously kept some tabs on Jack.  Finding someone's home address is far easier than finding out where they worked.  Finally around 1990, he sent one to the Pearson family residence.  That's when Jack went to visit him and cut Nicky off completely.  

[mostlylurking]

I am So Over the Jack flashbacks, I’m sorry I just don’t care anymore but this one was almost worth it to see Miguel’s helmet hair!  The only other flashback I would like to see would be one about Miguel and Rebecca and how that all started. 

I saw the ending differently and I think all the women looked happy for Kevin. Sophie did look wistful but she probably will always have that little piece of her that still loves Kevin. It didn’t look like any of them were going to crash the wedding. I like Madison and Kevin so I hope they get to have their day. 

The support group woo boy....the woman who said she wished she had never been adopted....I don’t think Randall feels the same way at all. I hope things go well with him and Kevin. I did love how he accepted being Kevin’s best man immediately and unconditionally. That was nice. 

Obviously Nicky was projecting his own feelings over Jack onto Miguel, although I wouldn’t feel quite so protective over a brother who decided to let everyone believe I was dead.  I’m glad Miguel stuck up for himself and Nicky apologized. I also loved Nicky walking outside with the baby monitor clipped to his shirt, hee!

The whole Tess thing, ugh, that’s rough. They shouldn’t be allowed to be alone in her room with the door shut. If it’s not ok for Deja and Malik it’s not ok for Tess and her girlfriend/partner.   Beth should have discussed that with Tess prior to the friend’s arrival but that doesn’t excuse  Tess treating her mom like shit.  Also, and I’m seriously asking here, is it ok to call them a girlfriend?  I’m thinking not but not sure. 

While I get music teacher guy being pissed his top candidates didn’t get hired, that’s not Kate’s fault. Take it up with the person who did the hiring. Kate didn’t seem to be slacking to me just because she didn’t arrive an hour early and took a two minute break, plus she actually helped that one girl. I get his irritation because Pearsons are irritating at times, but he was kind of a dick. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by mostlylurking

[Lady Calypso]

I do agree that Tess was overreacting with Beth's reaction to her and Alex with the door closed. I also think that Beth can be right in that she's also going through an adjustment period. I think both things can be true (hence the name of the episode, heh), and I do think both Tess and Beth are figuring things out with Tess' sexuality. Alex was pretty cool with Beth's response as well. I love that they told Tess that it was cool and they were absolutely fine with being asked to leave. That's a good partner to have, Tess! I do think Beth needed to explain why she was going to ask them to keep the door open, and I wish Tess was more open to listening. But Tess is a typical teenager; she may be a brat, but it's completely realistic. So it's frustrating to watch, but also realistic.

I adore Madison/Kevin so much. I LOVE that we finally got some info on her family after five seasons. I love that Kevin listened and was immediately in agreeance with her choice in venue, and he sounded excited by it. Kevin's growth has been amazing to watch. 

I also have loved seeing Randall's growth this season. Him just listening to the stories of the other trans-racial adoptees was such a stepping stone for him. Him getting to hear other similar experiences was an important thing for him to do. And he didn't interrupt or get judgey on anyone! This season has done wonders for Randall. Even if some of the things said in the support group were uncomfortable to hear, people can't help how they feel (although, lady who told her family that she wished she wasn't adopted, maybe that's a reason why half of them stopped talking to you?) 

Nicky was way  out of line. I love Nicky, but Miguel was 100% in the right. I think that Nicky spoke for the season 1 audience, for sure. I remember we all made similar comments. But we have also seen more of Miguel since then, even if we haven't seen much backstory, and we've seen how much he cares for Rebecca and now we know how long it was until they got together/got married. Plus, both have memories of Jack that they can bond over so I'm glad they made up.

I will say, Toby's struggle with being a stay at home dad (and him and Madison getting to share a scene together! Hooray!) and Kate struggling to go to work was semi-interesting. And I also laughed at Baby Jack's hard "no" at Toby wanting to rock.

I'm gonna pretend Sophie's look at the end was acceptance with Kevin moving on. Though I get why she might be having some feelings (she was married to Kevin and now he's getting remarried), I enjoy Kevin/Madison way too much now.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

The support group woo boy....the woman who said she wished she had never been adopted....I don’t think Randall feels the same way at all. I hope things go well with him and Kevin. I did love how he accepted being Kevin’s best man immediately and unconditionally. That was nice. 

Not caught up yet, but this... yes. I got the sense from Randall's uncharacteristic reticence in the group session, and the little smile and 'Manny says whaaaat' at the end means that maybe he's giving his head a shake. Maybe hearing this woman's IMO over-the-top declaration that she wished she'd never been adopted (and her dismay that some of said family was now not speaking to her) made him realize that yes, he missed out on some things by being adopted, he was also very fortunate to have been raised by and with people who loved him so much.

My mom is long-since passed, but if she wasn't I would have felt the need to call her up and say 'I love you and thank you for loving me' after this episode. Thank goodness we both knew this while she was alive. I guess they are showing the other, more successful side of adoption with Kate & Toby and baby girl, but even then they had that awful scene with Kate shaming the birth mom for not wanting to keep in touch (at least right away). I love this show, but IMO they do no favours to adoption, from any perspective.

[pianogirl73]

I hope the point of the support group was to make Randall understand that he is glad the Pearsons adopted him. I would hate for him to tell Kevin thathe wishes he was never adopted.

[TV Diva Queen]

I  liked when 70's Miguel was talking to Rebecca's dad - he was also talking to HIS future father in law.  It was kind of cool and is Rebecca's dad alive and did Miguel ever meet him as a son in law? 

[Jax7917]

Is Rebecca not on the show because she’s on maternity leave ? Wonder when she’s coming back . 

[PRgal]

6 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I  liked when 70's Miguel was talking to Rebecca's dad - he was also talking to HIS future father in law.  It was kind of cool and is Rebecca's dad alive and did Miguel ever meet him as a son in law? 

If Rebecca’s dad is still alive, he’d be around 100 or so!  
 

As I (and many other fans) have said, I wonder what Miguel’s ex and their kids think of Rebecca and the Big 3.  We probably won’t meet the kids until we get a Rebecca and Miguel get married episode.  If then.  They might have refused to go...or Miguel and Rebecca got it taken care of in, I dunno, Vegas. 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

If Rebecca’s dad is still alive, he’d be around 100 or so!  
 

As I (and many other fans) have said, I wonder what Miguel’s ex and their kids think of Rebecca and the Big 3.  We probably won’t meet the kids until we get a Rebecca and Miguel get married episode.  If then.  They might have refused to go...or Miguel and Rebecca got it taken care of in, I dunno, Vegas. 

Miguel's kids do not like him with Rebecca.  There was an episode (possibly a Thanksgiving one) where they had dinner with his kids and they were hostile to Rebecca.  

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

(and not what the Wedding Planner Lady wanted for them)

I think this is exactly what was going on for Kevin. He was just going along with the wedding planner...big celebrity wedding, of course we'll have it at Big Hard-To-Get Place. I don't think he had any strong feelings one way or the other on where. He's more interested in having a family than in having a wedding; even without Madison's Big Childhood Memory speech I don't think he would have objected to having it wherever she wanted, even if her reason was simply "they have pretty flowers there." But I'm glad she finally made her wishes clear. It's her wedding, too.

[TV Diva Queen]

20 minutes ago, PRgal said:

If Rebecca’s dad is still alive, he’d be around 100 or so!  
 

As I (and many other fans) have said, I wonder what Miguel’s ex and their kids think of Rebecca and the Big 3.  We probably won’t meet the kids until we get a Rebecca and Miguel get married episode.  If then.  They might have refused to go...or Miguel and Rebecca got it taken care of in, I dunno, Vegas. 

Ha!  I always forget that part.  🙂

[txhorns79]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Miguel's kids do not like him with Rebecca.  There was an episode (possibly a Thanksgiving one) where they had dinner with his kids and they were hostile to Rebecca.  

Yes, I vaguely recall his children nastily insinuating that Rebecca had some role in Miguel and his wife's divorce from years before.   (I think, in reality, they divorced before Jack died.)  They were very hostile. 

 

56 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

 

While I get music teacher guy being pissed his top candidates didn’t get hired, that’s not Kate’s fault. Take it up with the person who did the hiring. Kate didn’t seem to be slacking to me just because she didn’t arrive an hour early and took a two minute break, plus she actually helped that one girl. I get his irritation because Pearsons are irritating at times, but he was kind of a dick. 

What is Kate's actual job again?  The way she talked, I thought she was actually teaching classes, but the show made it seem more like she was a teacher's aide.

 

40 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I got the sense from Randall's uncharacteristic reticence in the group session, and the little smile and 'Manny says whaaaat' at the end means that maybe he's giving his head a shake

I appreciated that Randall kept quiet.  It served a dual purpose in that it allowed him to seem introspective and it saved us (the audience) from having to sit through the Randall Pearson origin story for the 8000th time.   

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

But we have also seen more of Miguel since then, even if we haven't seen much backstory, and we've seen how much he cares for Rebecca and now we know how long it was until they got together/got married.

We did already know that because Rebecca posted on Facebook when Tess was born "my new granddaughter" and Miguel responded (or sent her a private message) and that's how they reconnected.  

I would love a whole episode devoted to when they first met up and their courtship, though.  

I assume Mandy was on maternity leave when this episode was filmed.

The scene between Beth and Carol really got to me.  Carol's line about "you blink and they're all grown up" (or something like that) was delivered so wistfully by Phylicia Rashad.  And then Beth putting her head on her mom's shoulder--is someone slicing onions in here?

[mtlchick]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Nicky did reach out to Jack.  He sent Jack dozens of postcards to Jack's office that went unanswered.  Nicky may have chickened out back in 197whatever, but Nicky obviously kept some tabs on Jack.  Finding someone's home address is far easier than finding out where they worked.  Finally around 1990, he sent one to the Pearson family residence.  That's when Jack went to visit him and cut Nicky off completely.  

Thanks for the reminder.  This season and the long breaks isn't making it easy to remember details!

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Is Rebecca not on the show because she’s on maternity leave ? Wonder when she’s coming back . 

Mandy was on maternity leave.  I believe she went back last week?

[BoogieBurns]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

On a shallow note, I wish the show had put someone else on the fake Us Weekly cover because I'm tired of seeing Meghan Markle's face everywhere.

Well, she's very beautiful and was on basically every magazine cover about a month ago. So it was pretty spot on. On a shallow note, I want to see her face more.

Edit: can't find who asked, but Alex would be Tess' partner, not girlfriend. Tess would be Alex's girlfriend or partner. Hope that clears it up.

Last note, no need to be fully adjusted to using they/them pronouns. But don't misgender, go ahead and call them by their name "Alex needs to leave" if you refuse "they need to head home." 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by BoogieBurns

[callmebetty]

12 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

I had the same conversation with my husband today that Toby had with Madison . I’m in a position this year where I’m able to be home with my toddler part time and I feel so guilty that I can’t wait until he goes to day care the next day . Being a stay at home parent is no joke . I always thought they had it easy . 

I ended up being a SAHM for 10 years. Wasn't planning on it.

There were parts I loved and other times I was ripping my hair out.  I always felt guilty like Toby but then realized not every one is cut put for it. It's like any other job some people really like it and are good at it and some aren't. I love my kids but found I was a much better parent when I go to a job and then be with them afterwards.

I hate that you have to fell guilty and that it seems like your a bad parent.

 

Otherwise, I love Miguel and Nicky and I'm glad both worked it out. Nicky realizing and apologizing and Miguel accepting and telling him that he didn't replace Nicky. 

I hated the adoption group storyline.  What a way to further cement Randall's feelings about being adopted. I'm sure people feel this way but man how depressing. 

[kili]

Quote

Yes, I vaguely recall his children nastily insinuating that Rebecca had some role in Miguel and his wife's divorce from years before.   (I think, in reality, they divorced before Jack died.)  They were very hostile. 

Yes, they were very obnoxious and it was Thanksgiving ("Six Thanksgivings"). When Rebecca apologized for accidentally bringing a dish with nuts in it (one of the dinner guests asked because he "gets a little allergic"), one of Miguel's kids said "First you steal my father from my mother, and now you're trying to kill my brother-in-law". Then Miguel gives one of his better speeches about how they can be rude to him, but not to her. In it he says  that they reconnected 10 years after Jack's death (and after Miguel's wife had remarried - they were definitely divorced by the time Jack died - Jack got sober at Miguel's bachelor place). 

It was nice to see that Nicky and Miguel bonded at the end. Miguel is such an understanding guy and realized that Nicky was more upset about being replaced. The Pearsons don't deserve Miguel.

If you think too much about it, why is Miguel planning the dinner without Rebecca being part of the planning? Is she getting the cups and ice? Of course, it's because the actress is on mat leave.

I can see why they need a trans-relational support group because I admit that it is hard understanding why somebody would rather have been raised by a bipolar mother she's never really communicated with (who either decided that she couldn't be a mother or had her child removed from her by social services for probably a good reason) rather than her adopted family who her only complaint against is that they are not the same race as her.  

Transracial adoptee support group - TAS Group? Maybe Harry Potter fans who wanted to do tool-assisted speed runs of the Harry Potter game? Maybe they they confused "Transracial" with "Transfiguration"? Maybe somebody just advertised the wrong time and place for a Quidditch game?

The big question is - did Alex and Tess save any poppers for Grandma?

Since Tess has her own room and Deja has her own room and Grandma is still there, either Annie sleeps in a cupboard under the stairs or that is a five bedroom house. Maybe six once Kelvin comes to stay. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by kili

[Bliss]

53 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

We did already know that because Rebecca posted on Facebook when Tess was born "my new granddaughter" and Miguel responded (or sent her a private message) and that's how they reconnected.  

I would love a whole episode devoted to when they first met up and their courtship, though.  

I assume Mandy was on maternity leave when this episode was filmed.

The scene between Beth and Carol really got to me.  Carol's line about "you blink and they're all grown up" (or something like that) was delivered so wistfully by Phylicia Rashad.  And then Beth putting her head on her mom's shoulder--is someone slicing onions in here?

This is us! LOL (I have an affection for this show, especially when it touches on topics that are sooooo close to my heart.)

There were lots of moments in this episode that I enjoyed, and the one that made my eyes (really) wet was this one between Beth and her mom. Beth, putting her head on her mom's shoulder, and Carol's admission she "took too long" to accept her daughter's choices were both powerful demonstrations of vulnerability (and the courage it takes to tear down stupid walls that cause separation). Well done, writers and actors!

Although I used to say I could never love anyone more than my kids, I was wrong. My realization happened when my grandkids were born! I never knew I had these places in my heart that would burst open... and rather than get overly dramatic, I'll just say that my lesson was simple: the capacity to love is infinite. When both my daughters made choices to move (far) away for work reasons, it took me some deep work to accept that it had absolutely nothing to do with the love we shared. It isn't an overnight fix. Grief is a multi-faceted emotion and missing those I love is something I struggle with often (at least it isn't every single day)! I can't just pop over to babysit or have them for Sunday dinner. It's a constant distinction to make between agreement and acceptance for me, and the Covid pandemic just intensified the fact that we can't always have get-togethers whenever we want. So, thank you, show, for putting my situation right in my face. I've come a long way, and I'm grateful it didn't take me 2 decades.

[OdinO.]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Tess's love life interests me just as much as Deja's, which is to say not at all. I didn't care for angsty Beth, and even less for Mama C's smug commentary from the couch while pretending to read Toni Morrison's latest book.

Yeah, that was some stereotypical crap. 

[buttersister]

I like Madison, which is 180-degrees from where I started.

Kevin’s easy acceptance of Madison’s venue choice reminded me of his father. It’s all about the girl.

[tennisgurl]

Beth's mom is getting on my nerves when it comes to Tess. She acts so smug about how woke she is and how she's "beating" Beth at being cool and up to date on the lingo, like she's happy that Tess is confiding in her instead of Beth. I did like some of her talk with Beth, like the wistful way she talked about watching Beth grow up, but while she acted like she was going to stop being so critical of her, it seems like she still is, just she's being more passive aggressive. 

Beth and Tess seem to in this whole cycle of self fulfilling worries and misunderstandings. Tess is still struggling with her sexuality and that makes her really sensitive about it, and that causes her to lash out at her mom for any perceived lack of acceptance, and that makes Beth really nervous and neurotic about saying or doing the wrong thing and offending Tess, and her obvious nerves just makes Tess even more self conscious about her sexuality because she interprets it as Beth being uncomfortable with her being gay, then Tess lashes out again and Beth gets even more nervous around her, over and over again. 

Meanwhile, Annie is presumably making her own entertainment and wondering if she is going to have to find some drugs to abuse to finally get some attention one of these days. 

[madmax]

I didn't notice any "EWWW" look on Beth's face.  I even rewound the recording and nope, nothing like that.  More of an "OMG, are they kissing" type face.  Which is totally OK, but Beth should have set out the ground rules before Alex came over - open doors, at least one foot on the floor, etc.  But there was no disgust at Tess being gay, or Alex being they.  I totally related to Beth's discussion with her mother.  I had suspected my son was gay for some time and was totally cool with it, but when he came out to me, I still had to make some adjustments to my thinking. 

I don't know how Randall restrained himself from the epic Pearson speech at group therapy.  Damn, his tongue must be bleeding in fifty places.  Hope his and Kevin's talk goes well.  At least he's waiting until they're vaccinated and not just flying across country on a whim, unless that's just for skinny dipping with your dead mom.

I get that Kate was all weepy after leaving her kids for the first time, but you have a job now.  Do it.  Put your phone away and check it at lunch.  The music director was spot on when he was talking to her.

Gonna be some big problems ahead if Toby doesn't fess up.  Staying at home with the kids isn't for everyone.  I know I wasn't able to do it.

Best parts of the episode were Toby and Madison in the park and of course, baby Jack not wanting to rock. 😂

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Tess's love life interests me just as much as Deja's, which is to say not at all. I didn't care for angsty Beth, and even less for Mama C's smug commentary from the couch while pretending to read Toni Morrison's latest book.

 

Hah!  I noticed the book, too. I grind my teeth every time she starts to pontificate.

Well darn I love the show, but we almost broke up this week.  The way they (and by they I mean the showrunners) play fast and loose with our devotion, confident they can lay off for  holidays, basketball season or just because it's taking them a while to make an episode, and we'll still be here, waiting on the sofa, reminds me of the type of boyfriend that feels sure you'll still be there when he gets done with all his guy things.

[TV Diva Queen]

16 minutes ago, madmax said:

I didn't notice any "EWWW" look on Beth's face.  I even rewound the recording and nope, nothing like that.  More of an "OMG, are they kissing" type face.  Which is totally OK, but Beth should have set out the ground rules before Alex came over - open doors, at least one foot on the floor, etc.  But there was no disgust at Tess being gay, or Alex being they.  I totally related to Beth's discussion with her mother.  I had suspected my son was gay for some time and was totally cool with it, but when he came out to me, I still had to make some adjustments to my thinking. 

I don't know how Randall restrained himself from the epic Pearson speech at group therapy.  Damn, his tongue must be bleeding in fifty places.  Hope his and Kevin's talk goes well.  At least he's waiting until they're vaccinated and not just flying across country on a whim, unless that's just for skinny dipping with your dead mom.

I get that Kate was all weepy after leaving her kids for the first time, but you have a job now.  Do it.  Put your phone away and check it at lunch.  The music director was spot on when he was talking to her.

Gonna be some big problems ahead if Toby doesn't fess up.  Staying at home with the kids isn't for everyone.  I know I wasn't able to do it.

Best parts of the episode were Toby and Madison in the park and of course, baby Jack not wanting to rock. 😂

this got in my crawl for some reason.  So Madison has been to every park within 5 mile radius and has determined that this was the best park.  for newborns.  in a stroller?  Yes - I get that do take kids out to get them air but really - 5 miles is alot of parks to cover.  

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't understand why Beth didn't just say, "I don't care who you are 'with' but you aren't going to be 'with' anybody in your room, with the door closed, at 12 years old. The 'look' on her face should have been about her 12 year old possibly making out on the bed, not who her choice of partner was.

 

ETA: or, what @madmax said. I need to read everything before I post. Sorry!

Edited April 7, 2021 by gonzosgirrl

[Blakeston]

My take on the Harry Potter reference was that it was about how they looked, spread out in a circle facing each other in a park. I don't know much about Harry Potter fandom, but I could see someone confusing them for a bunch of nerdy people doing some sort of "magical" role playing kind of activity.

Speaking of which, having a group talking about super-sensitive personal trauma in a public park seems like a horrible idea. I get that it's more dramatic to see the characters interacting in-person instead of online, but if they can give us episodes set in cars, they could show Randall's group on Zoom.

Beth's mother being so adamant about treading lightly is all the more galling considering that she appointed herself the Queen of Strictness. She probably would have given Beth a smug speech about how lenient she is to let such a young child be alone in a bedroom with her significant other, if the situation hadn't granted her the opportunity to rub her wokeness in Beth's face.

But hey, Beth is the one who wanted her to live with them!

[MadyGirl1987]

2 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Speaking of which, having a group talking about super-sensitive personal trauma in a public park seems like a horrible idea. I get that it's more dramatic to see the characters interacting in-person instead of online, but if they can give us episodes set in cars, they could show Randall's group on Zoom.

I didn’t think of this at first, but ITA. I’m in library work, and we are big on privacy in large part due to how, psychologically, when people feel they are being monitored or watched or could be seen doing something, it has a chilling effect. For example, someone who wants to check out a book on a sensitive medical issue might not if they have reason to believe people might find out about it. This would definitely apply to group therapy in a public park. I’m guessing IRL the people would not be so candid due to fear of being overheard.

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, kili said:

Since Tess has her own room and Deja has her own room and Grandma is still there, either Annie sleeps in a cupboard under the stairs or that is a five bedroom house. Maybe six once Kelvin comes to stay. 

Maybe they sent Annie off to boarding school, since they have no time or energy to spend on her.  She really needs to cause some trouble if she is ever going to be noticed....or at least get a line here and there.

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Maybe they sent Annie off to boarding school, since they have no time or energy to spend on her.  She really needs to cause some trouble if she is ever going to be noticed....or at least get a line here and there.

I think she's happy to stay out of everyone's way as long as she gets to use Randall's iPad.

[perkie1968]

16 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Gee, Tess, maybe you and your mom would be closer if you weren't a huge brat to her every time she opens her mouth.

This.  This.  Infinity this.

  When they showed us the Tess birth episode in season 1 or 2 (or 3?!) they said she was born in 2008 which I remembered because my own daughter is born the same year.  Which would make Tess 13 at some point this year.  And all I'm thinking while watching this episode is that my own child better not be giving me this kind of attitude at any time or there will be hell to pay!!!  I despise shows that have mouthy teenagers being disrespectful to their parents (Equalizer, I'm looking at you), because there is no way that I would allow that nonsense from my own child.  

 The actress playing Tess is actually 15, so maybe they forgot how old Tess is supposed to be, since she acts older than the age she should be.  

[Josiemae]

Ugh. The virtue-signaling in this episode was over the top. Take it down a notch, show. We get it - you're woke! 

Beth's mom gets smugger and smugger every episode. Smug, smugger, smuggest. She's unbearable - lighten up, judgy-face!

Seeing Sophie again made me realize that Kevin has a type: skinny needle-nosed blondes. Just like him!

Also, who subscribes to print fan rags anymore? I'm guessing just the characters in this show. So what ... six people? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Josiemae

[roughing it]

6 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I saw the ending differently and I think all the women looked happy for Kevin.

I missed that part.  Who were the ex-girlfriends?

[mostlylurking]

4 minutes ago, roughing it said:

 

6 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I saw the ending differently and I think all the women looked happy for Kevin.

I missed that part.  Who were the ex-girlfriends?

 

Zoe, Cassidy from Pittsburgh, and Sophie. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, perkie1968 said:

This.  This.  Infinity this.

  When they showed us the Tess birth episode in season 1 or 2 (or 3?!) they said she was born in 2008 which I remembered because my own daughter is born the same year.  Which would make Tess 13 at some point this year.  And all I'm thinking while watching this episode is that my own child better not be giving me this kind of attitude at any time or there will be hell to pay!!!  I despise shows that have mouthy teenagers being disrespectful to their parents (Equalizer, I'm looking at you), because there is no way that I would allow that nonsense from my own child.  

 The actress playing Tess is actually 15, so maybe they forgot how old Tess is supposed to be, since she acts older than the age she should be.  

Yeah.  15 and LOOKS 15.  The writers quietly aged her and now Tess was born in 2004 or 2005.  The future timeline works for this age too.  No way would a 23 year old Tess be working as a social worker (since you need a master's).  Tess's birthday is on Halloween, I think.  So she's still 12 using the original timeline.

As for Kevin having a "big celebrity wedding,"  I think a small one would actually give him more press and make him see more "cool" and "with it" (as in "with the normal people").  I suppose he has to go through the motions of a "proper Hollywood wedding."  

@Ohiopirate02: Since Miguel's kids don't like Rebecca, they might not like the Big 3 either.  It would be funny if one of them ran an "I Hate the Manny" (or Kevin Pearson) social account...LOL 

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, PRgal said:

@Ohiopirate02: Since Miguel's kids don't like Rebecca, they might not like the Big 3 either.  It would be funny if one of them ran an "I Hate the Manny" (or Kevin Pearson) social account...LOL 

Or they bonded with Kevin over their shared disgust of the Rebecca-Miguel nuptials.  It would have also been funny if we found out back in Season 1 or 2 that Miguel's kids travelled to LA for Manny tapings using the tickets Rebecca and Miguel refused to use.

[Quickbeam]

When I saw Sophie my first thought was: “hey get back to Virgin River, you had your shot at Kevin!”. Because I watch too much TV.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the reasons that group therapy is often suggested in addition to one on one therapy is what we saw from Randall in this episode:

(1) you get to see that you are not the only one who went through this

(2) you can see the range of similar experiences (some people had it easier than you and some people had it harder than you, which helps you put your experience in perspective) and well as the spectrum of healing (some people are going to be more hurt/angry/damaged than you are and some people are going to be more at peace/happy than you are which helps you see that you won't always feel stuck in the place where you are now)

(3) you don't have to explain yourself and your feelings over and over because the other people who have had a similar experience already get how you feel in a way that the other people in your life don't

And for people who think transracial adoption is not a big deal, it can be really difficult, especially if the adoptive parents never address it or recognize that you ARE different. The color blind approach doesn't work when the rest of the world sees that you're different and people point it out. I know a few people who were transracial adoptees and the way they were brought up varies widely. One girl I know was adopted from Korea by a white family. She grew up in a town where she was the only Asian person. Her extended family said they "don't see her as Asian." A few weeks ago after the Atlanta shooting, she told one of her favorite aunts how shook up she was and that she was afraid of what could happen to her, and this aunt blew it off and said it was no big deal. The complete lack of empathy is just astounding.

[OdinO.]

3 hours ago, Josiemae said:

Ugh. The virtue-signaling in this episode was over the top. Take it down a notch, show. We get it - you're woke! 

Beth's mom gets smugger and smugger every episode. Smug, smugger, smuggest. She's unbearable - lighten up, judgy-face!

Seeing Sophie again made me realize that Kevin has a type: skinny needle-nosed blondes. Just like him!

Also, who subscribes to print fan rags anymore? I'm guessing just the characters in this show. So what ... six people? 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, NBC is getting unwatchable with their constant agenda TV.

[Eureka]

1 hour ago, Quickbeam said:

When I saw Sophie my first thought was: “hey get back to Virgin River, you had your shot at Kevin!”. Because I watch too much TV.

Along with Rebecca’s father! Lol. I forget his character’s name there. Doc something.

[Leeds]

 

  4 HOURS AGO, BLAKESTON SAID:

Speaking of which, having a group talking about super-sensitive personal trauma in a public park seems like a horrible idea. I get that it's more dramatic to see the characters interacting in-person instead of online, but if they can give us episodes set in cars, they could show Randall's group on Zoom.

There's a lot to be said about meeting up personally for a support group/therapy, in part because a lot of people are more likely to be open and more vulnerable, even if it's difficult.  It's also harder to lie when you're sitting with people, even if it's at 6' apart.  (If my memory serves, they were in a big open space at the park.)

6 hours ago, madmax said:

 

I get that Kate was all weepy after leaving her kids for the first time, but you have a job now.  Do it.  Put your phone away and check it at lunch.  The music director was spot on when he was talking to her.

 

The first day my best friend went back to work after her child was born, she drove round the corner and cried for a few minutes, then went to work and behaved as a professional.  (Me, I just drove to work gleefully, but then I'm a bad Mum and was fortunate enough to be able to have a part-time job.)

 

[bybrandy]

3 hours ago, Josiemae said:

 

Also, who subscribes to print fan rags anymore? I'm guessing just the characters in this show. So what ... six people? 

They still publish them so I guess enough to make it profitable and I got the impression that Sophie sawa it at the hospital and grabbedd it and Beth's cousin saw it someplace and picked it up...

I'm sure different hospitals have different rules but the hospital I'm affiliated no longer has all those magazine subscriptions to send out to patients because  of fear of infection being spread as they go around and around the hospital.

But Randall pulled his out of a pile of mail so Randall totally subscribes.

[Trillian]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I also have loved seeing Randall's growth this season. Him just listening to the stories of the other trans-racial adoptees was such a stepping stone for him. Him getting to hear other similar experiences was an important thing for him to do. And he didn't interrupt or get judgey on anyone! This season has done wonders for Randall. Even if some of the things said in the support group were uncomfortable to hear, people can't help how they feel (although, lady who told her family that she wished she wasn't adopted, maybe that's a reason why half of them stopped talking to you?) 

I’ve come to hate Randall so much that I can’t cut him any slack for “not being as obnoxious as usual

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And for people who think transracial adoption is not a big deal, it can be really difficult, especially if the adoptive parents never address it or recognize that you ARE different. The color blind approach doesn't work when the rest of the world sees that you're different and people point it out. I know a few people who were transracial adoptees and the way they were brought up varies widely. One girl I know was adopted from Korea by a white family. She grew up in a town where she was the only Asian person. Her extended family said they "don't see her as Asian." A few weeks ago after the Atlanta shooting, she told one of her favorite aunts how shook up she was and that she was afraid of what could happen to her, and this aunt blew it off and said it was no big deal. The complete lack of empathy is just astounding.

Absolutely agree about this.  How transracial adoption is handled within families varries incredibly from family to family and also what a kid needs to honor their heratige from family to family.  I have one set of friends who have adopted multiple children from China and they put the kids in chinese school and took mandarin themselves and they go to all the adoption picnics in the area so their kids can see and experience things and people like them.  I have another set of friends who planned to have their chinese twins take mandarin and when the mandarin teacher came for their first lesson the girls wigged out and went an hid in a storage closet until the teacher had gone.  After talking to them they were both terrified that the woman was there to bring them back.  Even after explaining what the purpose was the girls weren't interested.  They also haven't been interested in some other cultural activities planned for them by the parents.  They may grow out of this and seek more answers about their asian herratige but they are in colllege now and haven't so far... but they also have never had the experience of ever being the only person who looks like them or who has shared experience with them as they have always had an identical twin.  Maybe they get what they need of that from each other.

[LeighLeigh]

I forgot how beautiful Beth’s cousin is. Was her name Zoe?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

44 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Absolutely agree about this.  How transracial adoption is handled within families varries incredibly from family to family and also what a kid needs to honor their heratige from family to family.  I have one set of friends who have adopted multiple children from China and they put the kids in chinese school and took mandarin themselves and they go to all the adoption picnics in the area so their kids can see and experience things and people like them.  I have another set of friends who planned to have their chinese twins take mandarin and when the mandarin teacher came for their first lesson the girls wigged out and went an hid in a storage closet until the teacher had gone.  After talking to them they were both terrified that the woman was there to bring them back.  Even after explaining what the purpose was the girls weren't interested.  They also haven't been interested in some other cultural activities planned for them by the parents.  They may grow out of this and seek more answers about their asian herratige but they are in colllege now and haven't so far... but they also have never had the experience of ever being the only person who looks like them or who has shared experience with them as they have always had an identical twin.  Maybe they get what they need of that from each other.

Not only do the parents handle it differently but kids will respond differently, as seen by your two examples. I think the important thing is (1) acknowledging the obvious, which is that the kids have a different racial background (2) giving them ample opportunities to explore their heritage and be around people who look like them (3) making it clear that they can always talk about any issues that arise from being different, even if that means initiating difficult/uncomfortable conversations. As much as Jack and Rebecca loved Randall, they were sorely lacking in some of these areas. I get that it was mostly out of ignorance rather than malice but intentions are secondary to actions. They didn't mean to make Randall feel XYZ, but he still felt XYZ due to their ignorance.

[Runningwild]

I’m really tired of the “adoption is bad and transracial adoption is the worst” story. That does seem to be how the show wants us to see it.