S05.E12: Both Things Can Be True

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Jack and Miguel bond. Kevin and Madison navigate challenges. Randall seeks out a new kind of support network.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/6/21

[bros402]

This episode is airing April 6th.

[greekmom]

UGH!!! First Tess is a little brat.  Beth's look was "oh my god, my kid is going there" (meaning sex).  There was no look about Tess being with them.  Absolute brat.
I think Tess is having a much harder time of dealing with her sexuality than her mom of having a lesbian daughter. 
I have no comment on the support group.

I am not surprised at the ending showing the 3 ladies reading the magazine. I wonder if it's going to come into play or let it go.

Loved the Miguel and Nicky back and forth and glad they resolved the issue. Nicky has yet to meet Rebecca.  I can't wait for that.

[Spartan Girl]

Loved the moment with Toby and little Jack: “I wanna rock!” “No.” “Okay...” LMAO.

Hoo boy Nicky and Miguel did not get off on a good start. I get Nicky’s hostility but that was really out of line to accuse Miguel of “swooping in” on Rebecca without even knowing the full story. Sheesh.

Lived the flashback of Jack going full Pearson with proposing to Rebecca with a recreation of their carnival date. Miguel standing up to Rebecca’s father after saying he’d “tolerate” their marriage? Pure awesomeness.

I appreciate that Randall spent most of his group session listening to other people’s experience with adoption rather than take the spotlight.

And Beth is clearly trying, even if she has some hang ups about Tess’ love life—Tess was being kind of bratty though. Good thing her mother is there to give good advice. I was amazed she was so worldly and open minded, but in hindsight, she is trying to compensate for not being as accepting of Beth and her life.

The last part of Kevin’s exes reading about his upcoming wedding makes me nervous.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[ams1001]

God, I can't deal with the Pearson speechifying tonight. Apparently it rubbed off on Miguel, too.

Miguel's 70s hair, on the other hand... 🤣

Can't with Nicky being all mad at Miguel, either. 

I know just how British Teacher Guy feels. I'd have zero patience with Kate, too. (He's about the only one who didn't get on my nerves this episode.)

Kate: "Can I just say one thing, real quick?" Quick?...I doubt it.

Gee, Tess, maybe you and your mom would be closer if you weren't a huge brat to her every time she opens her mouth.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, greekmom said:

UGH!!! First Tess is a little brat.  Beth's look was "oh my god, my kid is going there" (meaning sex).  There was no look about Tess being with them.  Absolute brat.
I think Tess is having a much harder time of dealing with her sexuality than her mom of having a lesbian daughter. 
I have no comment on the support group.

I am not surprised at the ending showing the 3 ladies reading the magazine. I wonder if it's going to come into play or let it go.

Loved the Miguel and Nicky back and forth and glad they resolved the issue. Nicky has yet to meet Rebecca.  I can't wait for that.

Rebecca and Nicky have already met.   So have Nicky and Miguel at the last Pearson Family Thanksgiving.  

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I knew that ring was going to end up stuck on Miguel's finger! So gross that Jack used butter to grease it up instead of you know, dish soap, like a normal person.

Whenever Beth was running down the list of things she had to "let go of" in regards to Tess, I was thinking you can still do all those things! She can still talk about Tess' crushes, help her get ready for dates and watch her walk down the aisle. It's just a different gender than she was imagining. I felt bad for Tess when she said that Beth didn't have to try with Annie and Deja but at least she has a mom who tries. That's worth something, IMO.

Toby is going to end up blowing up again if he doesn't share his feelings with Kate.

I am nervous about the upcoming discussion between Kevin and Randall. I hope it goes well for them and doesn't end badly.

[Blakeston]

As a queer person who knows all about people's awkward reactions to queerness, I don't think they did a very good job of showing us that Beth was displaying discomfort in front of Tess.

Are we supposed to believe that she wouldn't make a similar face if she had walked in on Deja making out with a boy in bed when she was 13?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Blakeston

[Ohiopirate02]

Ugh.  They had to end the episode with Sophie looking wistful after reading about Kevin's engagement. 

[greekmom]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Rebecca and Nicky have already met.   So have Nicky and Miguel at the last Pearson Family Thanksgiving.  

Pearson size memory lapse?!?!? 😂

[funnygirl]

Yessss Sophie! I really hope Kevin doesn't actually marry Madison. Bleh 

I'm not mad at Nicky for going off on Miguel. I felt the same way when it was revealed that he married his best friend's girl. lol

Tess, you're mom isn't going to be happy walking in on any of her daughters making out on a bed. Tess is hyper-sensitive about her sexuality and that's her own issue. Beth is trying, and Tess is lucky to have a loving home with two loving and supportive parents and supportive siblings and extended family. Little girl, you are not a victim. And, no, your mother doesn't have to knock on a door in a house that you pay no bills for. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by funnygirl

[BuckeyeLou]

I liked that Madison finally opened up to Kevin about the kind of wedding she wanted(and not what the Wedding Planner Lady wanted for them), and we are finding out some more about Madison's family life.  Yikes, I dont know what to think about seeing Kevin's Ex-Girlfriends and each of them reading about his upcoming wedding in a Tabloid magazine!  Sophie looked wistful, the other 2 looked like they were fine with it.

[mtlchick]

First season: ugh, Miguel.

Now, YES, MIGUEL! 
Nicky put a lot of bad energy into something that 1) he knew nothing about and 2) he had ample opportunity to make amends with Jack but didn’t. At least they made up at the end. 
 

I had to chuckle that Kate thinking that she got through to the blind girl would magically fix her issues with the teacher but clearly didn’t. Though I am a bit confused as to what was up with Toby at the end.

As for Tess and Beth...eesh.  I think Tess is expecting her mom to be accepting with everything quickly, and Beth is stressing out about pronouns. I don’t doubt that Beth doesn’t love her,  but it takes time and I think Tess is bugged that Beth is not doing it fast enough.

Kevin is going to have a Ghosts of Girlfriends Past moment, isn’t he?

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, funnygirl said:

And, no, your mother doesn't have to knock on a door in a house that you pay no bills for. 

I don't totally agree with that (kids need some privacy) but I assume Deja is not allowed to be in her bedroom with Malik with the door closed (wasn't Beth all hovering mom the first time he came over, too? and that was in the living room). Tess shouldn't expect different rules just because her romantic partner is not male.

[tennisgurl]

Madison really has been hanging with the Pearson's a lot, she got her wedding venue changed via a very classic Pearson speech. Of course, no one in this universe just does things or wants things because of taste, they always have to have some big dramatic story to go with it. So its not just Madison wanting a different venue, its a long story about her parents taking her on a random trip to Japan before they got divorced and how she wants to recreate it at her wedding. Obviously Kevin is going to say yes to that, how can you say no to a Pearson speech, especially when your a Pearson? All of Kevin's ex's seeing the news makes me worried that we will get some drama when an ex crashes the wedding. The first two looked happy, while Sophie looked wistful, like she's composing her own Pearson speech..

Loved having a Miguel centric episode, with special guest star Miguel's 70s hair. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Two good eps in a row.  I'll have to watch again though because I kind of went rage blind over that woe-is-me adoptee group. I don't know what this show has against adoption, but I wish they'd get over it. 

[Madding crowd]

I liked most of the episode but really hate the anti adoption message that has been shown  several episodes now. The woman who wishes she would have been raised by her bipolar mother needs to understand she may have been placed in the foster system and be with people who are far worse than people who don’t speak Spanish. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Madding crowd

[3 is enough]

I would worry about a 13 year old not being emotionally ready for sex regardless of the gender of their partner.  Tess is hypersensitive and quite honestly a brat.  Pretty sure Deja and Malik are not allowed to be alone in her room either. 

[KaveDweller]

8 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I don't totally agree with that (kids need some privacy) but I assume Deja is not allowed to be in her bedroom with Malik with the door closed (wasn't Beth all hovering mom the first time he came over, too? and that was in the living room). Tess shouldn't expect different rules just because her romantic partner is not male.

Deja even said to Beth, "hey, I'm not allowed to be in my bedroom with Malik, why is it okay for Tess?" But, Beth should have made this clear to Tess before Alex came over, rather than just interrupting them to announce it.

But maybe the reason Beth doesn't have to try with Annie and Deja is because they aren't total brats to her? Annie is always super sweet and Deja hasn't been showing any attitude, at least not in the past couple seasons. But Tess seems to yell at Beth for anything she says/does. I think Beth would be having a similar reaction if Tess was acting like this and was dating a boy.

[ByaNose]

I love Uncle Nicky. That is all. 

[BuckeyeLou]

21 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

First season: ugh, Miguel.

Now, YES, MIGUEL! 
Nicky put a lot of bad energy into something that 1) he knew nothing about and 2) he had ample opportunity to make amends with Jack but didn’t. At least they made up at the end. 
 

I had to chuckle that Kate thinking that she got through to the blind girl would magically fix her issues with the teacher but clearly didn’t. Though I am a bit confused as to what was up with Toby at the end.

As for Tess and Beth...eesh.  I think Tess is expecting her mom to be accepting with everything quickly, and Beth is stressing out about pronouns. I don’t doubt that Beth doesn’t love her,  but it takes time and I think Tess is bugged that Beth is not doing it fast enough.

Kevin is going to have a Ghosts of Girlfriends Past moment, isn’t he?

I did like that Uncle Nicky called Miguel to apologize...Miguel realized Jack would have wanted Nicky there if things had been different between them.  And now, Kevin wants to make sure Randall will be his Best Man & not leave a rift between them like there was between Jack & Nicky.

[PRgal]

4 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Deja even said to Beth, "hey, I'm not allowed to be in my bedroom with Malik, why is it okay for Tess?" But, Beth should have made this clear to Tess before Alex came over, rather than just interrupting them to announce it.

But maybe the reason Beth doesn't have to try with Annie and Deja is because they aren't total brats to her? Annie is always super sweet and Deja hasn't been showing any attitude, at least not in the past couple seasons. But Tess seems to yell at Beth for anything she says/does. I think Beth would be having a similar reaction if Tess was acting like this and was dating a boy.

To be honest, I’d have a problem with Tess dating, period.  She’s not quite 13 yet (I realize the actress is 15 or so, which is why she seems “older”).  My son is 2 1/2, but if 10 years from now, he comes home and announces that he’s seeing someone then I would definitely not be amused. 

[Jax7917]

I had the same conversation with my husband today that Toby had with Madison . I’m in a position this year where I’m able to be home with my toddler part time and I feel so guilty that I can’t wait until he goes to day care the next day . Being a stay at home parent is no joke . I always thought they had it easy . 
 

I can’t imagine why they’d throw in Kevin’s exes at the end other than to show the comparison between how the other two reacted vs . Sophie but even Sophie seemed to laugh it off for a second before making a face . Wonder if they’ll drag them on for the will they won’t they scenario or if the show will have him stick with Madison . I don’t mind Madison and Kevin as much as I did but they’re just eh to me . They feel very forced . 

[LexieLily]

9 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

 And now, Kevin wants to make sure Randall will be his Best Man & not leave a rift between them like there was between Jack & Nicky.

Beth didn't even make it a week before her comment about Randall treating their house like a Ramada Inn became prophetic. (I know Kevin invited himself, but still :p:)

Edited April 7, 2021 by LexieLily

[Blakeston]

21 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I liked most of the episode but really hate the anti adoption message that has been shown  several episodes now. The woman who wishes she would have been raised by her bipolar mother needs to understand she may have been placed in the foster system and be with people who are far worse than people who don’t speak Spanish. 

I have zero sympathy for someone who tells their family that she wishes she never met them, and is now disappointed that they don't want to be in her life.

Would it kill the show to feature one person who was raised by people who didn't look like them, and yet doesn't consider their childhood a disaster? They are out there!

[Jax7917]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

It cracks me up that we barely made it a week before Beth's comment about Randall treating their house like a Ramada Inn became prophetic. (I know Kevin invited himself, but still :p:)

😂😂 Randall looked so annoyed that Kevin would be staying at his house yet again . 

[memememe76]

I really liked the trans racial adoptee support group. I don’t think the show is saying trans racial adoption is bad. If the people attend such a group, it would mean they have issues to deal with, and a lot of issues come from childhood. And they are all adopted where their adoptive parents come from a different cultural background. If the group consisted of people raised by their biological birth parents, would the show be accused of being anti birth families? 
 

And having the adoptees be from different backgrounds allow for the experience to be similar to Randall’s but slightly different. I mean, has there been a tv show or movie featuring a birth parent and child reuniting but don’t share the same language? That is an interesting perspective I never considered. 

 That said, why would the name confuse Harry Potter fans?

Loved the playground chat between Madison and Toby. I find Toby’s situation really emotionally affecting. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by memememe76

[SunnyBeBe]

I found this episode disappointing.  Just about all these characters irritate me in some way.....let’s see, Beth seems scared of her children.  Jumping around all nervous just because your daughter’s friend/crush was coming over.  Caught the way the friend pulls off her mask as she walks into the house. Lol  And Beth’s mom gets me with her haughty self. She’s so pleased with herself.  What a turnoff.  Then there’s Nicky being so rude to Miguel.....thanks for the apology, man.  So unnecessary.  And Kate calling home while on the clock....there should be a landline at the facility where urgent calls from home can be received in case of emergency.  (Maybe, she was on a break.)  And watching Jack plan his proposal........ugh...I’m really over his romantic endeavors.  

[phalange]

I knew as soon as Miguel and Jack started rehearsing the proposal that the ring was going to get stuck. Miguel was a good friend, sticking up for Jack to Rebecca's father, though words cannot express how much I hate the whole sexist "get the father's blessing/permission" crap. That "tradition" truly needs to die. 

Nicky taking his issues out on Miguel wasn't cool, but I'm glad Nicky apologized and they talked it out. I'm hoping this means we get some actual Miguel and Rebecca backstory soon.

Toby really needs to talk to Kate about how he's feeling.

I'm thinking the end with Sophie looking at the magazine article is just to throw people off, but who knows. I hope nothing comes of it, since I like Kevin and Madison together. 

[Kremit]

How old is Tess?  I thought in the Halloween episode a few years ago it set her birthdate as October 31, 2008.  That makes her a few weeks older than my 12 year old son, but I’ve always thought they write her character like she’s older than that.  

[KaveDweller]

11 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

That said, why would the name confuse Harry Potter fans?

I was trying to figure that out, and could not. I thought maybe it was an anagram, but I can't find the Harry Potter connection.

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And Kate calling home while on the clock....there should be a landline at the facility where urgent calls from home can be received in case of emergency.  (Maybe, she was on a break.) 

I couldn't believe Kate just blatantly making calls like that on her first day. It would be one thing if she was in an office and could sneak a call while she was working on the computer or something. But she was meant to be helping work with the kids, right? She must have seen the teacher was not impressed with her.  

If I started a new job, I'd wait a few days to get the lay of the land about things like personal calls during working hours. She could still keep the phone on her in case of an emergency.

[txhorns79]

48 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Miguel's 70s hair, on the other hand... 🤣

I swear they have him in a woman's wig.  He looks just like Janet did early in Three's Company's run.

I do feel like the show plays a little fast and loose with Kevin's celebrity.  His proposal is big enough news to make the corner of US Weekly's cover, but he lives in a house where anyone can walk up unencumbered and Madison can go off to the park with the twins by herself.  (Yes, Toby was there this time, but she made it sound like she has been there on her own as well.) 

28 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

But maybe the reason Beth doesn't have to try with Annie and Deja is because they aren't total brats to her? Annie is always super sweet and Deja hasn't been showing any attitude, at least not in the past couple seasons. But Tess seems to yell at Beth for anything she says/does. I think Beth would be having a similar reaction if Tess was acting like this and was dating a boy.

I wish Beth had simply called out Tess for her bs, instead of going into a self doubting mode.  Maybe Tess was off screen, but we saw a whole season of Beth and Randall having to try very hard with Deja before things got to a nice point between all of them.  And maybe you and your mom would be closer if you just weren't so nasty to her all the freaking time!  Maybe Tess should read the news or look outside her bubble to see how lucky she is to have a mother who loves her and is trying, as opposed to parents who would send her packing because she is a lesbian.  Just a thought.

I did find Randall's group therapy interesting, but yeah, sorry lady, telling your adoptive family you wished you had never met them is probably not going to be a welcome comment.   

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, Kremit said:

How old is Tess?  I thought in the Halloween episode a few years ago it set her birthdate as October 31, 2008.  That makes her a few weeks older than my 12 year old son, but I’ve always thought they write her character like she’s older than that.  

The actress is about 2 years older than the character; maybe they forgot how old she's supposed to be.

[tennisgurl]

I was hoping that we could take a break from Randall's trans racial adoption angst after Randall got closure skinny dipping with his ghost mom, but apparently not. At least Randall just listened for once, and managed to find people that have even more adoption angst then he does. Not even Randall has gotten to the point where he told his family he wished they never adopted him and would have been happier with his drug addict parents, like damn lady are you surprised that some of your family aren't speaking to you after that? I don't think this show is trying to be anti adoption, but its easy to get that vibe sometimes with Randall's constant angst about it and how much he romanticizes his biological family. Maybe its only against trans racial adoption? Its an interesting topic to explore, and I'm not adopted so I cant speak to peoples experiences, but the handling can feel a bit questionable. 

Nicky was out of line with Miguel, but I did like their whole story and I loved having a focus on Miguel. I could imagine right away what Nicky's issue with Miguel would be, that he's jealous at the years that Miguel had with Jack and that he "replaced" him with Miguel, and I am glad that Nicky apologized and that they had a nice moment. The flashbacks were fun too, loved Miguel standing up for Jack, and while I find the whole "ask my daughters hand" thing to be ridiculous, I can cut them a bit of slack, being in the 70s. Its not like Jack even really cared, he was clearly asking Rebecca no matter what, he just wanted to get along with his snobby in laws as much as possible. I really like that we got an episode focused on Jack and Miguel's friendship and touched on Miguel's feelings about marrying his dead best friends widow and his own grief. It gets a bit lost in all of the Pearson's grief over losing Jack, but Miguel lost his best friend and that must have been devastating for him as well. Also, it was great that Kevin stood up for Miguel and his marriage with Rebecca, he has sure come a long way from spending all Thanksgiving glaring at him for wearing the pilgrim hat. 

I hope that Toby tells Kate how he feels soon, or else he is going to explode. Chris Geere (the British teacher) is freaking everywhere lately, I see him on my TV more now than when he was the co- lead of Your The Worst. If Kate wants to be a teacher she really is going to need to take it seriously and not spend the whole time on the phone looking at pictures of her kids and dealing with her many issues, especially when, as the other teacher pointed out, she has no experience whatsoever and is only here because their boss "likes her energy." Kate is on her phone and running late on her first day, acting like she doesent want to be there and ignoring the students, you would think she would be trying a bit harder on this job she got by basically magic. 

Tess is being a brat and Beth is being needlessly dramatic about all of this. I get that Beth needs to take a second to reimagine her life with Tess being into girls, but her going on about how she imagined talking to Tess about crushes and watching her walking down the aisle, come on Beth you can still do all of that, just substitute boy for girl and husband for wife. If she really is fine with Tess being gay, then she should be able to adjust that. I guess I just don't get it, especially as Tess has been out for awhile now, you would think she would have the time to deal with the fact that Tess's future will look different now, and it probably wont even change that much. I don’t know why the gender of the person on the date that Beth imagines her helping her get ready for is the big existential crisis that Beth's treating it as. Does Beth really want her daughter to marry a man just like her father anyway? Kinda weird. She also needs to stop being so nervous and to stop walking on eggshells around Tess, if she starts just treating Tess's relationships the way that she treats Deja's, Tess might feel better and more accepted by her. That being said, Tess is being a real brat and is clearly still very sensitive about her sexuality and is reading things into her moms reactions that I don't think are there as much as she thinks they are. I feel bad that she is still struggling with her sexuality, but she is just being so crappy to her mom, its hard to deal with. I don't think any mom would be thrilled to walk in to see her twelve year old making out in her bedroom, regardless of the genders involved, I don't think it was because of gender at all. Beth is making mistakes, but she really is working on it, and part of her worry is probably that Tess is always biting her head off for everything so she cant feel like they can talk. "Tess can you leave the door open with your new partner the way your sister does?" "YOUR SUCH A HOMOPHOBE PSYCHO MOM GOD!" The two of them are both just being exhausting. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by tennisgurl

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, Kremit said:

How old is Tess?  I thought in the Halloween episode a few years ago it set her birthdate as October 31, 2008.  That makes her a few weeks older than my 12 year old son, but I’ve always thought they write her character like she’s older than that.  

Yep. She was born Halloween 2008. The Obama Biden 08 button in that episode always helps me remember. Assuming they are where we are, she's 12. (Oh, the vaccine is available, so this is supposed to be "real time." Million Little Things is a year behind on covid and I confuse the shows. They shared the British actor this week)

[30 Helens]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Whenever Beth was running down the list of things she had to "let go of" in regards to Tess, I was thinking you can still do all those things! She can still talk about Tess' crushes, help her get ready for dates and watch her walk down the aisle. It's just a different gender than she was imagining.

My thoughts exactly. And I was surprised her pronoun-enlightened mother didn’t point this out.

So Jack’s kids aren’t the only ones who think of him every day, every waking moment? Even poor Miguel is endlessly haunted by daily fears of Jack judging him from beyond the grave? Forget adoption therapy. All of these people need Jack Therapy, immediately, starting with lessons on how to let him go and live their own damn lives.

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Loved the moment with Toby and little Jack: “I wanna rock!” “No.” “Okay...” LMAO.

Me too. I assume this was an unexpected baby ad lib/ outtake that they decided to leave in, just for the fun of it. Hilarious.

Hotshot teacher guy, if you want your new assistant to show up at 8am, don’t tell her to be there at 9. She can’t read your mind. You’re definitely (as expected) The Worst.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, Nicky was so out of line. First of all, it is none of his fucking business who Rebecca married after Jack died. This isn't the Middle Ages so please take your patriarchal bullshit and GTFO. He never even met Rebecca yet he was practically peeing all over her on Jack's behalf. If you have an issue with your dead brother's wife remarrying over a decade after your brother died, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. There's no need to be petty and passive aggressively argue about how you don't like small crusty food. Besides, the rehearsal dinner food should reflect the couple getting married and I can guarantee you that Kevin would rather have crostini than pigs in a blanket.

The only good thing to come out of that storyline was seeing Kevin, who only a few seasons ago was hell bent on Miguel never wearing that stupid pilgrim hat, calmly pointing out to Nicky that Miguel is the guy who has been married to Rebecca for over a decade (as opposed to "the guy who's been banging my brother's wife").

Tess is just being a brat. She is using any excuse to lash out at Beth. I can tell you that at the age of 12, I was not allowed to have my crush in my bedroom, let alone with the door closed. If my parents had caught me making out in the house with someone, they would have grounded me forever.

All those things that Beth said she had to let go are not things she has to actually let go of. She can still talk to her daughter about her crushes and help her get ready for dates. Who her daughter dates and has crushes on has nothing to do with that.

How long before Madison gets added to the Pierson spouse text chain? Are Toby, Beth, and Miguel waiting until she and Kevin are officially married?

Edited April 7, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[chocolatine]

I thought Nicky's outburst towards Miguel was out of character, but I guess he was projecting all of his unexpressed anger with Jack. I'm glad that Miguel told him how much Jack had missed him.

I loved when Kate's boss wasn't impressed with her and pointed out how unqualified she was, but of course the show can never have anyone who insults a Pearson be right, so Kate's "energy" had to win in the end.

In the 70s flashback, I wanted Rebecca to come home early and ruin the surprise, because I'm that tired of the Jack Pearson Grand Romantic Gestures(tm). But Mandy Moore must have already gone on maternity leave when this episode was shot, since she was neither in flashback nor in the present day scenes.

Tess's love life interests me just as much as Deja's, which is to say not at all. I didn't care for angsty Beth, and even less for Mama C's smug commentary from the couch while pretending to read Toni Morrison's latest book.

I like to think that Randall was rendered speechless at the transracial adoption support group meeting because he realized how whiny and self-pitying all of those stories sounded.

2 hours ago, phalange said:

I'm thinking the end with Sophie looking at the magazine article is just to throw people off, but who knows. I hope nothing comes of it, since I like Kevin and Madison together. 

I hope so too. The show has been there, done that with Sophie multiple times already. Trying to get them back together would be the definition of insanity.

On a shallow note, I wish the show had put someone else on the fake Us Weekly cover because I'm tired of seeing Meghan Markle's face everywhere.

[Racj82]

I feel bad for saying this but the whole call a person them/they thing is just never something I can wrap head around. I respect it. But, it's just a step too far for me.

I really don't think Madison is a good match for Kevin. I just don't think they work together. 

[bros402]

Kate just doing all of that stuff with her new job was out of line - telling him it was important family stuff, then crying at the photo and waiting before saying "oh no it's fine my kid is just cute" is just like... no

At least he was forthright with "yeah, you weren't at the top of my list, but the principal makes the final call so yeah" and luckily he wasn't converted to being a Pearson Lover the second after she helped the student.

 

28 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Wow, Nicky was so out of line. First of all, it is none of his fucking business who Rebecca married after Jack died. This isn't the Middle Ages so please take your patriarchal bullshit and GTFO. He never even met Rebecca yet he was practically peeing all over her on Jack's behalf. If you have an issue with your dead brother's wife remarrying over a decade after your brother died, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. There's no need to be petty and passive aggressively argue about how you don't like small crusty food. Besides, the rehearsal dinner food should reflect the couple getting married and I can guarantee you that Kevin would rather have crostini than pigs in a blanket.

 

Tess is just being a brat. She is using any excuse to lash out at Beth. I can tell you that at the age of 12, I was not allowed to have my crush in my bedroom, let alone with the door closed. If my parents had caught me making out in the house with someone, they would have grounded me forever.

All those things that Beth said she had to let go are not things she has to actually let go of. She can still talk to her daughter about her crushes and help her get ready for dates. Who her daughter dates and has crushes on has nothing to do with that.

How long before Madison gets added to the Pierson spouse text chain? Are Toby, Beth, and Miguel waiting until she and Kevin are officially married?

I think Nicky's outburst was less him butting into Rebecca's business but more him trying to process his issues with Jack, which he hasn't processed 50 years later.

I could see Kevin wanting both crostini and pigs in a blanket - or at least an upscale pigs in a blanket.

Yeah, Tess is expecting her parents to be okay with her, a 13 (or 12?) year old to be allowed to be alone in her room with her romantic partner - that should've been what Beth led with - that Deja is older and isn't allowed to have the door to her room closed when Malik is over, so Tess can't have the door closed when Alex is over.

I have to imagine as soon as Madison's pregnancy was announced she was added to the "Pearson Orbit" text chain.

[MsJamieDornan]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I like to think that Randall was rendered speechless at the transracial adoption support group meeting because he realized how whiny and self-pitying all of those stories sounded.

Let's hope so.

[MadyGirl1987]

I’m with those saying Tess was being a brat. I’m not a parent, but I doubt many parents would be pleased with their pre-teen/teen making out in a closed bedroom no mater who they were attracted to.

The Trans-racial support group... Does TV want us to see adoption as bad, because with the biology over all else slant of Little Fires Everywhere last year to Randal’s Adoption Angst and the woman telling her adopted family she would rather have grown up with her bipolar mom then them, I am not seeing many positive depictions of adoptions. As someone who knows many people who’ve adopted, including one of my mother’s best friends who adopted two sons and had one cut off contact for a while after he met his birth mom, I know its complicated but I hate how TV portrays adoption as something that messes a person up, no matter how loving and stable the adopted family is. Sometimes the best family to raise you ISN’T your biological family, sad as that is. That type of thinking gets kids put back into abusive homes in the name of keeping the family together.

[MBayGal]

18 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

 

I feel bad for saying this but the whole call a person them/they thing is just never something I can wrap head around. I respect it. But, it's just a step too far for me.

 

Thank you!!  I was going to post that I can not wrap my head around using a plural pronoun for an individual.  Who just one day decided this?  

On another note, I love that top Beth wore.  I'm sure it was mega-pricey, but I would love to know the brand or store it came from. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

29 minutes ago, bros402 said:

I think Nicky's outburst was less him butting into Rebecca's business but more him trying to process his issues with Jack, which he hasn't processed 50 years later.

The reason for his outburst doesn't excuse his behavior or the shitty way he treated Miguel who he had never met before.

29 minutes ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

The Trans-racial support group... Does TV want us to see adoption as bad, because with the biology over all else slant of Little Fires Everywhere last year to Randal’s Adoption Angst and the woman telling her adopted family she would rather have grown up with her bipolar mom then them, I am not seeing many positive depictions of adoptions. As someone who knows many people who’ve adopted, including one of my mother’s best friends who adopted two sons and had one cut off contact for a while after he met his birth mom, I know its complicated but I hate how TV portrays adoption as something that messes a person up, no matter how loving and stable the adopted family is. Sometimes the best family to raise you ISN’T your biological family, sad as that is. That type of thinking gets kids put back into abusive homes in the name of keeping the family together.

I don't think this show is trying to portray transracial adoption as inherently bad but they are pointing out all the things that well intentioned people do not think about that can affect these children and how those things can have psychological effects for years. Just because you have good intentions and you love your kids doesn't mean that you will avoid giving them issues that they might be dealing with decades later.

I don't think that the people in the group sounded whiny. When you are the only person of your race in your family, at your school, and in your town, it DOES make a difference even if you never verbalize it. What one of them said is common among adopted kids: they want to find their bio parents but then they feel guilty because their adoptive parents clearly love them.

[Marley]

I still don’t buy Kevin and Madison. Them showing his exes at the end just reminded me how lame Madison and Kevin are.

Randall is always going thru something. Like I know he’s had a lot of shit going on in his life but can he ever just be chill.

Tess was being a brat. I doubt Beth would be happy with Malik and Déjà making out on the bed. The show did a bad job with that SL.

Not a fan of this episode. Nicky was being dumb but at least that was fixed in the end.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Marley

[Adgirl]

Squee! Baby Jack said he didn't wanna rock! 

[Leeds]

 

 

4 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I really liked the trans racial adoptee support group. I don’t think the show is saying trans racial adoption is bad. If the people attend such a group, it would mean they have issues to deal with, and a lot of issues come from childhood. And they are all adopted where their adoptive parents come from a different cultural background. If the group consisted of people raised by their biological birth parents, would the show be accused of being anti birth families? 
 

And having the adoptees be from different backgrounds allow for the experience to be similar to Randall’s but slightly different. I mean, has there been a tv show or movie featuring a birth parent and child reuniting but don’t share the same language? That is an interesting perspective I never considered. 

 That said, why would the name confuse Harry Potter fans?

 

I once went to a support group, and one woman barely said anything.  At the end of the meeting she piped up - she thought she was at a weight watchers' meeting, but even when she realized she wasn't, she found ours so helpful and informative that she stayed 'til the end!

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, Leeds said:

I mean, has there been a tv show or movie featuring a birth parent and child reuniting but don’t share the same language? That is an interesting perspective I never considered. 

A fictional show?  I can't think of one but it happens with some frequency on Long Lost Family in the UK.  That show always though stops pretty soon after the emotional reunion and I always wonder how things go later on when the paid transalter is no longer with them.   

 

[debraran]

I think the adoption group was to show Randall he had a similar experience to others but also not as bad as others. I am glad they had him listen and absorb. I haven't known too many adoptees from different backgrounds but they are all different in how they adapt. Some parents like the Pearson's try to pretend everyone is the same and not see how the world will see them and talk about it. One mom who had a child in my neighborhood, has a Korean son in a Conservative Jewish family and is shocked when he wants to know more about his family, visit Korea, etc. It isn't an affront to you, it's a natural curiosity some adoptees have . They see the differences, how people treat them differently, it's not about love, it's about wanting to understand all about yourself.

I have a feeling Kevin is gong to apologize for how he felt years ago and jealousy but time will tell. I'm sure Randall will tell Kevin things too but I'm sure they will tie it up in a bow and not drag it out anymore. Seeing someone else as much as you can in their shoes can only help someone be closer.

I think showing all Kevin's ex's was a tease but only Sophie knows he left her then this happened. She knows on some level it probably was sudden since he never mentioned dating anyone. I don't think she married her fiance and I still feel something will happen later in the show. The wedding is a nice vehicle to get everyone working together, Kevin gets to talk to Randall, Nicky and Miguel get to bond, Kate, IDK. I don't look forward to the speeches myself and you know something will go wrong but I know fans like weddings and it will be a build up for a while.  Writers said yesterday "

Could they complicate things for Kevin? After Sophie laughed, that last, lingering look on her face was a bit contemplative. There was something what-iffy about that moment…

STEINBERG: Buckle your seatbelts is all I'm going to say.

BAUMAN: Yeah, hold on. Deep breaths. Everything's going to be okay. But also, we've had a plan for Kevin for a long, long time. So you'll just have to watch.

I also LOVED how TIU is more understanding of time lately and not dragging shows out. Nicky had an argument with Miguel and it ended and resolved in one show! Well done! I also didn't know why they were making him a jerk about Jack and Rebecca but then the "best man" speech brought the first tear of the show. : )  One of my favorite parts.

Edited April 7, 2021 by debraran

[debraran]

3 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I’m with those saying Tess was being a brat. I’m not a parent, but I doubt many parents would be pleased with their pre-teen/teen making out in a closed bedroom no mater who they were attracted to.

The Trans-racial support group... Does TV want us to see adoption as bad, because with the biology over all else slant of Little Fires Everywhere last year to Randal’s Adoption Angst and the woman telling her adopted family she would rather have grown up with her bipolar mom then them, I am not seeing many positive depictions of adoptions. As someone who knows many people who’ve adopted, including one of my mother’s best friends who adopted two sons and had one cut off contact for a while after he met his birth mom, I know its complicated but I hate how TV portrays adoption as something that messes a person up, no matter how loving and stable the adopted family is. Sometimes the best family to raise you ISN’T your biological family, sad as that is. That type of thinking gets kids put back into abusive homes in the name of keeping the family together.

I think Tess is a normal teen, mine weren't that bad but they were more introverted and didn't date in high school . ; ) Beth treated her the same as Deja and realized she wasn't at first.   I feel the adoption group isn't so much to make it wrong but to show some people have a hard time with it. I have a feeling the slant will be that the families weren't prepared to deal with it, that they took a class but really didn't understand it. I also feel Randall knows his feelings weren't as bad as some of theirs and that hopefully parents are more conscious of an adoptee feeling things they can't discuss and that treating someone the same isn't the same as others will treat them. I find it beyond odd if Rebecca never talked to Randall in a white, preppy neighborhood, how others treated him, making it easier from a young age to discuss it. Being jealous of a teacher who is black, what is that about? Step back and see it in your sons eyes. My children are mixed biologically but still see and hear things I never had to deal with and we have had tons of discussions. I do feel for Randall, white viewers saying how grateful he should be in his Pearson household and not caring about any one his questions or regret in not knowing his bio dad.  Some bio parents are not acceptable parents but your race still doesn't change when adopted. Honor that and teach them to be proud within your family of their origins.