S05.E01: Forty: Part One/S05.E02: Forty: Part Two

[marceline]

57 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I would love to see Randall have a real conversation with his daughters (and his daughter's boyfriend) about this that was less about how unfair life is and more about how to act if the police pull you over.

I just want to mention something here. It isn't just about how to act when the police pull you over. Tamir Rice was a child playing in the park and was shot within two seconds. Botham Jean, Atatiana Jefferson, and Breonna Taylor were killed in their own homes. It's about way more than when you get pulled over.

[After7Only]

Nor picking on this particular post, but it's a good one to summarize my feelings about various posts I've seen in this thread.

First 

14 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I may be a privileged white person, but I too am exhausted by all this, I just think it's more complicated than just race and also has to do with gun culture, crime culture, lack of mental health facilities, and poverty.

I completely agree with this statement.   Sounds like most agree race is a factor as well.

 

15 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Well then I'll get defensive for her. Are you saying Kate is a bad person?   Or just that Randall saying, "Thank you for being sorry, Kate, I know you're a good person who cares, and I love you," is too exhausting for him?  People go to funerals and tell the grieving widow they are sorry and she usually has the bandwidth to say thank you.  Kate simply is not responsible for any of this and yet some people seem to think she should be, at least partially, blamed for it.  Kate is not "white people" she is Randall's sister and if he can't bring himself  to reassure her a little because of the color of her skin, then he's the one who needs to sit and think about it a while.

 I took Kate's reaction after the conversation was her processing what Randall said about putting her needs for comfort in front of his own discomfort regarding race.   It was something that never occurred to her and she was coming to terms of the implications of that.   That makes Kate a very good person actually.   

 In your example if the grieving widow did not have the bandwidth to say thank you, most  people would understand and not take it personally.   It doesn't make the grieving widow mean or awful, it means that person is grieving, processing, and not their normal self.  Once they have processed the grief (or in Randal's case trauma) they are better equipped to have conversations.   Although I thought Randall was pretty measured in his conversation with Kate.  He didn't yell, or make accusations.  And he ended the conversation letting her know he loved her.  

 

38 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Is law abiding Randall really  that close to being shot by police?  Is he planning on resisting arrest?   If the toll of watching people who look like him get shot is too much for him he might feel better if he went to Youtube and searched on "white people shot by police."  So far this year 721 people were shot by police, 142 were black. That percentage may be high compared to population percentage but it doesn't change the fact that quite a few white people were shot by police and they could all  sit with their children and watch videos of white people being shot all day long if they chose to.

 Yes he is.  Statistically more likely than a white male in a similar educational and socio economic position.  Philando Castile was a law abiding citizen who did not resist arrest.  But still killed.   Also on YouTube are plenty of successful Black males (businessmen, athletes, entertainers, the Senator of SC) telling similar stories of being pulled over repeatedly by police for minor infractions or nothing at all.   They are not all lying.   

No one disputes that it doesn't happen to other races of people.  But it happens disproportionately to POC and discussion should be had about why that is AND general use of lethal force by police.   The consequence of running from police or having a mental health episode, or not doing exactly what a police person says is not DEATH.   Somewhere society has gotten the notion that it is an acceptable punishment and that is sad.    There are ways to keep police safe AND decrease lethal force (there's been police department's that have done it).   

 

 

[Cementhead]

16 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

I'm seeing a lot of comments about how Randall was the wrong character for this racism issue...to me that underscore the fact that Randall was the perfect subject for this issue.

It is easy to have empathy for a young innocent child. It is easy to sympathize with a character you already like. It might be easier to see the point view of a character you don't consider to have privileged. When it comes to racism and a lot of other issues these factors bring in the temporary allies

But Randall is not any off those things. He is a man, whose personality might make him unlikeable. He is a man, raised and love by a white family. He is a man who was gifted enough to attend schools that most POC and white wouldn't be able to attend. He is a man who is lucky enough to be upper middle class unlike most of us. He is a character who the fandom seems to think have been shoved down their throats with his man pain and drama. 

Can the inhumanity, pain and danger of racism still be seen in this imperfect person?  Does the person have to be likable/perfect for people to understand how painful it must be for this Black person to experience and witness his humanity being debated, question and legalized ALL the time.

For people to believe him when he say he is exhausted emotionally from seeing violence be done to people like him and have media/society prosecute those people in death because they were not the perfect Black person. And imagine them using his anxiety, his "I know better than everyone else" attitude, his break-downs, his drug addicted  bio-parents, all the little things wrong with him to justified his life being taken, like those things warranted a violent death.  Because like all human beings they might have made some mistakes, done some things that were wrong and those things are used to justified them being kill like they were insects. 

The writers are challenging and revealing who are temporary and conditional allies and people who really sees and truly understand that racism is painful, exhausting and dangerous for all Black people, because it takes away the humanity of all Black people, no matter whether they're good, bad, rich or poor.

As for the "tone" of Randall's statement, I think if people were able to truly understand where Randall was coming from, like they do Kate, and listen to him, without preconceived notions or ideas about how he should feel, we wouldn't be talking about his tone.  

As one of the people who commented on this just a few hours ago, I want to explain where I was coming from when I said it.  We are all here at this fabulous place that is Primetimer and we are discussing a television show about a family made up of fictional characters, so when I post a comment about something here it is usually just based on the tv show I am watching and on the fictional characters that I am watching for entertainment purposes, nothing more, nothing less.

So when I said that I wished that story was seen from another one of the show's characters POV, be it Beth or one of the daughters, it wasn't because I think that Randall was the wrong character to choose to focus on as my real life self named Michelle who knows that the character of Randall was representing the feelings of countless real life people in the real world.  My 'ugh, Randall again' reaction was 100% based on being a regular viewer of this show who recalls what feels like the entirety of last season's shows to have revolved around Randall and Randall's feelings and Randall's grievances and Randall's wims and Randall's dreams and oh look, Randall becomes a politician! Randall moves the Fam!  Randall buys a building!  It was just A LOT of Randall.  A lot of Sterling K. Brown is never a bad thing, but a lot of Randall is a lot.

And then here's the new season and we all settle in and the show opens up yet again with 2 heavy Randall stories.  BLM through the eyes of Randall and Holy Crap, Randall (maybe) has a Mom!  And some of the other characters are yet again relegated to bounce off Randall. How to talk to Randall, tiptoe around Randall, how to not upset Randall, how to make Randall feel better, and so on.  That's all my comment was based on.  Tv character fatigue.  Randall Fatigue.  Apparently it's a thing after all.  A lot of people caught it last season and I got a wee case of it last night. 

The other thing I said in my comment was that I was really appreciating all of the very thoughtful responses people are sharing here.  A lot of thought provoking replies, including yours.  A lot of you are delving much deeper into this than I certainly did and I just wanted to point out that some thoughts expressed here, such as mine, are based simply on this being a discussion about a tv show, which is where I personally was coming from.  From an entertainment value perspective.   Cementhead doesn't tend to go too deep.  😏

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

So when I said that I wished that story was seen from another one of the show's characters POV, be it Beth or one of the daughters, it wasn't because I think that Randall was the wrong character to choose to focus on as my real life self named Michelle who knows that the character of Randall was representing the feelings of countless real life people in the real world.  My 'ugh, Randall again' reaction was 100% based on being a regular viewer of this show who recalls what feels like the entirety of last season's shows to have revolved around Randall and Randall's feelings and Randall's grievances and Randall's wims and Randall's dreams and oh look, Randall becomes a politician! Randall moves the Fam!  Randall buys a building!  It was just A LOT of Randall.  A lot of Sterling K. Brown is never a bad thing, but a lot of Randall is a lot.

This is me. Only my name is Cindy.

It is not the issue I don't want to see, not BLM and not Covid. I'm just over Randall, the character, so it makes it harder to invest in his pain(s).

[Cementhead]

32 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is me. Only my name is Cindy.

It is not the issue I don't want to see, not BLM and not Covid. I'm just over Randall, the character, so it makes it harder to invest in his pain(s).

Oh, Cindy!  So you mean my post made sense?  I tried so hard!  Hey thanks.  Nice to meet you. 

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

What Randall also is is a character who has been heavily featured for several years. The show runs the risk of the impact of the message being lessened because of the constant focus on Randall. If it's important for the story to be from an adult perspective, have Beth tell it.

Yes to this.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Cementhead
spelling

[bybrandy]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

his may be a difference in personalities and communication styles, but I in no way saw Randall be dismissive to Kate, or lash out at Kate. From what I saw its clear that Randall knows Kate loves him, (and he loves her) but he just couldn't deal with her feelings at that moment- which I think was fair. Randall is Kate's peer, not her Dad, he doesnt have to deal with her feelings first all of the time.

This is exactly how I saw this as well.  And I liked Kate's reaction to it.  She heard what Randall had to say and clearly it was hard to hear but I like that she was taking some time to sit with it.  She wasn't raging against it.  She wasn't defensive.  She wasn't dismissive and maybe she'll be some of those things later on but I really felt like she was taking some time to internalize the things that he said and it felt like the right reaction.   I'm willing to change my mind going forward but I thought both of these things were good as was the acknowledgement in the middle of the worst of it that they loved each other.  

[PRgal]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is me. Only my name is Cindy.

It is not the issue I don't want to see, not BLM and not Covid. I'm just over Randall, the character, so it makes it harder to invest in his pain(s).

NAME TWIN!!!  Except I'm Cynthia.  

 

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[MissLucas]

This is such a great discussion - thanks to everybody who contributes.

I'd just like to add that I also think exhaustion by Randall the character from previous seasons has somewhat blurred the picture here. And I really think the writers dropped the ball with the preceding scene about Rebecca's meds. The moment Randall walked into the room and demanded the phone from Miguel I felt annoyed because 'here we go again - Randall saves the day'. And that can easily taint how you perceive the next scene - I could almost feel my brain switch gears during his scene with Kate. It was whiplash-inducing. And it was also completely unnecessary. 

Why could they not have Randall coming over because the family had a crisis but without him being the one who resolves said crisis? And then once it was over (because Miguel might be perfectly capable to keep an eye on his wife's meds and possible problems caused by them) they could all take a deep breath and have whatever conversations they thought were necessary? 

Also: this subplot was another reinforcement of Randall's view of him being the one who keeps the family from falling apart. It's almost as if the writers believe that too.

Edited October 29, 2020 by MissLucas

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, sara416 said:

I would have loved to see a discussion with the kids about this. And I feel like it would be well within character for Beth to head out to a protest and bring the girls with her. Maybe the show didn't want to get too into the whole protest thing because there are still people out there who can't see anything but the bad in those and it didn't want to alienate those viewers. Or maybe it was too fast of a turnaround production wise. Beth Pearson would be protesting or going to vigils or doing something other than watching things on television. 

Speaking of protests... I have nothing against protests per se. But why, in the time of COVID, did Randall allow Malik into the house when Malik told him he’d been out to a protest aka superspreader event?

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, CarpeFelis said:

protest aka superspreader event?

Protests were not linked to increased cases. 

[cheewhiz]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:48 PM, MrsWitter said:

IU really stabbed me in the heart using John Prine’s last song (“I Remember Everything”) towards the end of the second episode. I still feel so much sadness about his death, but it was an excellent and appropriate choice for this episode, both because of the topic of the song and the context of his passing.

That one got me too!  So did "keep me kn your heart for a while" by Warren Zevon, I'm still not over either one's death

[marceline]

13 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I'd just like to add that I also think exhaustion by Randall the character from previous seasons has somewhat blurred the picture here. And I really think the writers dropped the ball with the preceding scene about Rebecca's meds. The moment Randall walked into the room and demanded the phone from Miguel I felt annoyed because 'here we go again - Randall saves the day'. And that can easily taint how you perceive the next scene - I could almost feel my brain switch gears during his scene with Kate. It was whiplash-inducing. And it was also completely unnecessary. 

Getting away from Randall for a little bit, you reminded me of something that I really did enjoy in this episode: the conversation between Miguel and Toby. When Toby talked about the realization that he might have to be on anti-depressants for the rest of his life, I felt that in my bones. I liked how Toby admitted upfront that he was making a point but he's was going to take a while to get there. I liked how Miguel felt like he could open up to Toby and how Toby listened to him and supported him. I really want to see more scenes of the Pearson spouses/significant others interacting. It's a very different vibe. Hopefully Madison gets to be part of that action.

And I LOVED the reference to "One Day at a Time." "Who cancels Rita Moreno?! Right?" I especially liked it because ODAAT isn't on NBC so the shout-out was extra cool.

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, marceline said:

And I LOVED the reference to "One Day at a Time." "Who cancels Rita Moreno?! Right?"

I fell out. I think I said something similar (either "who cancels Rita Moreno?" or "how dare they cancel Rita Moreno?") when One Day at a Time was canceled.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

He's not less at risk because he obeys the law.

That simply is not true.  He is far less likely to be shot by the police if he obeys the law and if he complies with the police.  Just because you can find some rare examples of something doesn't make it the norm.    There's a video on line of a white woman who called the police because she heard screaming coming from next door.  When the police drove up she went out in her pajamas to tell them why she called and they shot her to death.  That doesn't mean unarmed white women are constantly gunned down by the police.  

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

That simply is not true.  He is far less likely to be shot by the police if he obeys the law and if he complies with the police.  Just because you can find some rare examples of something doesn't make it the norm.    There's a video on line of a white woman who called the police because she heard screaming coming from next door.  When the police drove up she went out in her pajamas to tell them why she called and they shot her to death.  That doesn't mean unarmed white women are constantly gunned down by the police.  

It appears that we fundamentally disagree about the way the police interact with Black people, so I will leave it at that.

[After7Only]

2 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

That simply is not true.  He is far less likely to be shot by the police if he obeys the law and if he complies with the police.  Just because you can find some rare examples of something doesn't make it the norm.    There's a video on line of a white woman who called the police because she heard screaming coming from next door.  When the police drove up she went out in her pajamas to tell them why she called and they shot her to death.  That doesn't mean unarmed white women are constantly gunned down by the police.  

And that police officer was one of the very few to be convicted and jailed...oh and he happens to be Black......  

No one said police shootings are the norm.   They are rare across the board, but disproportionately happen to POC.   

[JudyObscure]

49 minutes ago, After7Only said:

And that police officer was one of the very few to be convicted and jailed...oh and he happens to be Black......  

 

That was my point.  Just because something happened doesn't make it typical.  Philando Castile and this white Australian woman were both unusual cases. Most people, white or black, who are shot by police are involved in some sort of criminal activity or resisting arrest.  Most.  Not all.  Just because you can find exceptions does not make that statement untrue.  

[MissL]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

This is such a great discussion - thanks to everybody who contributes.

I'd just like to add that I also think exhaustion by Randall the character from previous seasons has somewhat blurred the picture here. And I really think the writers dropped the ball with the preceding scene about Rebecca's meds. The moment Randall walked into the room and demanded the phone from Miguel I felt annoyed because 'here we go again - Randall saves the day'. And that can easily taint how you perceive the next scene - I could almost feel my brain switch gears during his scene with Kate. It was whiplash-inducing. And it was also completely unnecessary. 

Why could they not have Randall coming over because the family had a crisis but without him being the one who resolves said crisis? And then once it was over (because Miguel might be perfectly capable to keep an eye on his wife's meds and possible problems caused by them) they could all take a deep breath and have whatever conversations they thought were necessary? 

Also: this subplot was another reinforcement of Randall's view of him being the one who keeps the family from falling apart. It's almost as if the writers believe that too.

Yes and something I’ve noticed in the “previously On” and the ads they’ve been playing to death is they KEEP showing Kevin telling Randall his worst day was the day they brought him home and NEVER show Randall telling Kevin that His father died ashamed of him. Thus making Randall look like the victim when they both said some heinous shit And Randall is the one who fought dirty first.  Plus Kevin actually had a look on his face after he said it like he knew it was wrong And went too far but I don’t recall the same from Randall.

I think Randall fatigue is really fueling a lot of this Discussion. I mean look how defensive they all got when Randall Figured out the medicine thing. It’s like they were al flinching and ready to be verbally slapped.
 

On that note I also have Kate fatigue and I was just WAITING For her to go all pissy and self involved when Kevin told her about the babies so that was a shock. Maybe they realized she was getting pretty damn annoying last year too. Cannot believe Kevin became my favorite last year and I never would have seen that coming when I started the show.

 

[Tabbygirl521]

On 10/28/2020 at 1:26 PM, KLovestoShop said:

I have the feeling this young girl is going to take every cent they give her and then she’ll run away with the baby and con another couple.  I bet she’s a grifter.  I know I would think three times before considering Kate and Toby.  Just his mental health alone sends red flags. 

Madison will die and Kevin will relapse and Kate and Toby will adopt the twins.

Kidding.

i think this is the perfect show to explore and illustrate some of the complexities of race in the US. I’m looking forward to seeing how things develop with Randall and his diverse family. 

[marceline]

14 minutes ago, MissL said:

On that note I also have Kate fatigue 

That's interesting. I had Kate fatigue so much in the earlier seasons. I wanted so much for the show to stop focusing on her and her weight. I feel like they did exactly that. When was the last time the show focused on Kate's weight? The last few seasons have been about Kate as a new mom and her relationship with Gregory which I thought was a good pivot.

If we're going to deal with Randall's experience as a Black man, I think it's more than fair - and even overdue - to revisit Kate and her weight issues. Which I think is going to happen.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, Cementhead said:

And then here's the new season and we all settle in and the show opens up yet again with 2 heavy Randall stories.  BLM through the eyes of Randall and Holy Crap, Randall (maybe) has a Mom!  And some of the other characters are yet again relegated to bounce off Randall. How to talk to Randall, tiptoe around Randall, how to not upset Randall, how to make Randall feel better, and so on.  That's all my comment was based on.  Tv character fatigue.  Randall Fatigue.  Apparently it's a thing after all.  A lot of people caught it last season and I got a wee case of it last night. 

Especially now that Beth and Randall have moved to Philly, there isn't a need to do a Black Lives Matter story where the focus is Randall. There's Tess or Beth or Malik.  Malik is a young Black man raising a child.  The show has created a Black community that surrounds Beth, Randall, and the girls.  We've seen the apartment building and Beth's dance studio. We've met Malik's parents.  There are so many avenues to tell a BLM story that it doesn't HAVE to be Randall's voice and Randall's search for his place in the world yet again.  That's been done.  Fogelman's built this community.  He needs to use more of it and stop channeling Rebecca by always making Randall the frickin' center of everything.  We see him, and we've seen him. Let us have the chance to see someone else and hear another Black voice besides Randall.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, MissL said:

On that note I also have Kate fatigue

I've had Kate fatigue in the past, but I liked the writing for her in these two episodes.

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I want to know, knowing what we do now, how a private eye could've figured this out.  We know William was never identified by anyone in authority.  We also know that he never went looking for Randall, Randall found him.   Since Randall was born at home with no medical personnel present and was dropped off at the fire station within a day or so of his birth, there is presumably no birth certificate done until the time of his adoption.  Most adoptees have a paper trail connecting them to their birth parents; Randall had nothing of the sort.  Did the private eye somehow magically find a police report of the OD, which wouldn't have said Laurel died, which also mentioned she had recently given birth and given the name of the baby's father and the fact that there was a newborn present?  And, if he did, why did he think Laurel was dead?  If she was dead, how was he able to link her to William and baby Randall? Some amazing coincidences that make no sense. storywise.  

My assumption was always that Randall's PI did exactly that...there would be a death certificate from a woman being found dead near the firehouse and I would think a good PI could easily get access to records like that. It doesn't seem unreasonable that an ME would notice she had recently given birth and include that in some kind of report.  And now that we know William was there with baby Randall when the paramedics arrived and that they mentioned the police, there would be a report that mentioned that the father disappeared with the baby. It would be pretty easy for a PI to tie that to a baby left at a fire station nearby. 

But if Laurel didn't actually die, then it makes less sense. Was there another drug addict that died nearby and somehow linked back to William?

[Racj82]

I do find it funny that people may not like the show now because this show is supposed to be there escape, it's too real, I don't want to think about these things.

A show that deals with ptsd, death, Vietnam ear, alcoholism, abuse and so many other things.

This is Us. This is our world now. I personally don't need shows to be an escape for me anyway. Like I've never been the type to say things like I can't watch this show. It's too heavy and I had a bad day, I need to watch something light. It's just a show for me. I don't let it effect my day.

I love this family and I'm still invested in them. That's all that's important to me.

Also if they just went with the world as usual it wouldnt make sense. They are in our world. Covid is in their world too. And if they just ignored it a whole bunch of other people would just be distracted by them hugging and going as they please. It's also just as much of a reminder. Just in a different way. What you wish you could do but can't.

[betha]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:49 PM, phalange said:

I understand his annoyance that Kevin was basically asking for advice without making any attempt at an apology

I didn’t read it that way. Kevin was reaching out, saying thank you for helping Rebecca, sharing something personal, trying to find common ground. Asking for advice is an acknowledgement that he loves and cares about what his brother says; an extension of the olive branch. Randall said some pretty terrible things in their fight too. I don’t think that his annoyance was that Kevin was asking for advice or not apologizing first thing- I think he just isn’t quite ready to reconcile yet. 

[Racj82]

6 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

Does anyone else find the character of Randall both badly written and racist?

He was abandoned by his black birth parents and raised by white parents. He had a much better life with the Pearson's than he would have with his black parents who were both messed up and very poor. Everything he has now is due to the Pearson's. 

I get he wants to connect with his culture/race and probably always felt like the odd one out in the Pearson's but he is 40 now! 

The way he spoke to Kate and his general state of anger (even before this BLM ep) he is just so ungrateful. 

Many people have covered this but where he ended up has nothing to do with anything else he's feeling that none of his feelings make him ungrateful. He's a man caught between two worlds. It's a weird place to be but half of his identity, for him, is missing because of where and who he grew up with. He loves his family. He appreciates his family. That has nothing to do with wanting to connect with another part of himself. 

And, in general, no amount of money, fame or privilege makes any struggles or issues you have any less significant. Life is easier if you are well off but it's still life. Living is hard. You are also constantly growing and changing. Things don't magically heal or become easier just because you are older.

I have my problems with Randall but at least he's trying to figure himself out. It will take time and he should have seemed help long ago but here we are.

[SunnyBeBe]

Is this the last season or next to the last season?

[kili]

Quote

 But if Laurel didn't actually die, then it makes less sense. Was there another drug addict that died nearby and somehow linked back to William?

I'm also having trouble figuring out how Rebecca found William. In "Kyle", Rebecca gets lucky and the bus driver recognizes her description of "Shakespeare".  Presumably, the helpful bus driver drops Rebecca off at "Shakespeare's" usual stop and she asks around for more info. People remember either the guy called "Shakespeare" or the guy who was with an obviously pregnant woman and Rebecca eventually finds him. A long shot, but possible.

In this episode, we see the same bus driver remind "Shakespeare" that they are at his stop and he decides not to get off the bus. Presumably, he never goes back to his apartment where either Laurel is waiting or neighbours are quick to tell him about how Laurel was saved by the paramedics, but for some reason, isn't at home and isn't interested in her child anymore.  If William goes back and Laurel is there, he knows she's not dead and she will want her baby back. What does William tell her? He mistook him for the book he was writing and left him in a handbag in a train station's checked luggage?

If William does not go back to the apartment, how does Rebecca so easily find him? Did the friendly bus driver notice that Shakespeare moved and people in the new neighbourhood recognize that the sad, skinny man who just moved in might be the person the quirky woman is looking for? It had to have been soon after birth because earlier Rebecca was worried that Randall wasn't latching and they should consider bottle feeding him. Babies usually can't go more than a few days without eating. So, in a couple of days the bus driver notices that Shakespeare moved and the new neighbours know him well enough for Rebecca to find him settled in his new home. Seems like a super long shot.

[bros402]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:20 PM, topanga said:

Agreed. Randall never researched his mother?

Genealogy nerd here.

Randall was born at home and dropped off at a fire station - so no birth record listing Laurel as his mother (or William as his father).

Now, if she had died, the paramedics or cops would've probably learned her name - but there most likely wouldn't have been an obit or a death notice in the paper, given their economic & friend situation.

PA also has varying death records - there's some deaths through 1999 indexed by the Mormons, but the publicly available death certificates from the state ends at 1969, with their death index ending at 1964 (for some reason??).

He might've been able to find her through a social security death index entry - but it isn't guaranteed that she would've been listed if she had died (might've not been reported to the SSA - might've not been known). She would have had one, however - but the SSA stopped their letter forwarding service in the 2000s.

This has been a genealogy spiel.

[pennben]

1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Does anyone else find the character of Randall both badly written and racist?

No. 

[MrsWitter]

3 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I do find it funny that people may not like the show now because this show is supposed to be there escape, it's too real, I don't want to think about these things.

A show that deals with ptsd, death, Vietnam ear, alcoholism, abuse and so many other things.

This is Us. This is our world now. I personally don't need shows to be an escape for me anyway. Like I've never been the type to say things like I can't watch this show. It's too heavy and I had a bad day, I need to watch something light. It's just a show for me. I don't let it effect my day.

I love this family and I'm still invested in them. That's all that's important to me.

Also if they just went with the world as usual it wouldnt make sense. They are in our world. Covid is in their world too. And if they just ignored it a whole bunch of other people would just be distracted by them hugging and going as they please. It's also just as much of a reminder. Just in a different way. What you wish you could do but can't.

I am the type who is affected by heavy topics in shows. But, as you mentioned, TIU has always been a heavy AF show so I don’t look to it as my escape. I enjoy the show, but I also know it can be emotionally grueling. I sometimes can’t watch This Is Us if I’ve had a bad day, but  I have a DVR full of Bravo and E! crap that I watch when I want to escape. And reruns of Friends. I’ve watched SO MANY reruns of Friends during lockdown!!!

On another note, as a White woman, I do want to thank the Black posters who took the time and emotional energy to share how they viewed this episode. I am heartened that a number of viewers felt seen and accurately represented in the exchange between Randall and Kate and I hope that this portrayal helps the rest of us see a perspective that, historically, has been marginalized in mainstream media. Even though I’m active in social justice movements, aspects of this episode and the ensuing discussion have been quite educational and caused me to grapple with some new thoughts and feelings. This is a good thing, IMO!

[cameron]

Please wash Jack's greasy, dirty hair.

[Joana]

I did NOT sign up for This is Randall. Either make it a spin-off or make a real effort to integrate the entire cast, inluding his most adorable family who I'd love to see way more of, and not just a prop for him.

Also, I'm so so so incredibly over Randall's hang-ups about being an outsider growing up. He could have had it so much more worse. In fact, chances were 99.99% he WOULD have had it infinitely more worse. I'd say growing up with in a relatively wealthy home with incredibly loving parents who showered him with attention and affection and made it possible for him to get a good education and carreer more than makes up for the fact that they didn't really know how to talk to him about being black, Yeah, I get why he might have some qualms about it, but for God's sake, try to see the bigger picture here. Everyone has something.

The COVID and BLM stuff was quite heavy-handed, but that was to be expected, sadly, once they decided to include it, I can only imagine what it's going to look like on Grey's Anatomy, 

Also, Rebecca is about to give birth? ZOMG I CAN'T WAIT to see what happens next!

Edited October 30, 2020 by Joana

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I felt that a long time ago with this show. I get that the show started with a heavy emphasis on flashbacks and I will admit it was novel (at the time time) and it worked well enough. But then they started doing it all the time, every character no matter how small or briefly involved in the show got a flashback! 

I don't mind the flashbacks, but I wish they would stop flashing back to the same scenes. How many times have we seen various views of the day they were born? They add details each time but the overall scene gets repetitive.

9 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

Is mom going to get a flashback ep too?

Cant there be any doubt?

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Is this the last season or next to the last season?

IIRC, they had a 6-year plan from the beginning.

[Enigma X]

I honestly do not believe this episode was overly "Randallized." There were many scenes with Kevin and Madison and Rebecca. I think some people are genuinely annoyed by the character Randall for legitimate show reasons (which I don't share all of), and others are using Randall to mask annoyance for other real-life topics and Randall is an easy euphemism to express that without coming out and saying where the real discomfort is coming from. I think some of that began way before this premiere episode. I also feel that is the same with the character Kate at times.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I honestly do not believe this episode was overly "Randallized." There were many scenes with Kevin and Madison and Rebecca. I think some people are genuinely annoyed by the character Randall for legitimate show reasons (which I don't share all of), and others are using Randall to mask annoyance for other real-life topics and Randall is an easy euphemism to express that without coming out and saying where the real discomfort is coming from. I think some of that began way before this premiere episode. I also feel that is the same with the character Kate at times.

The tipping point for me in this episode was Randall swooping on in to save the day with regards to Rebecca and her medications.  Take that scene out and it did feel pretty balanced.  Honestly, Toby should have been the one to figure out what happened since he is the one who has taken daily medications for years and would have experience with OTC medications and contraindications.  Or Miguel because he is Rebecca's husband and he would be there for Rebecca's appointments.  

[madmax]

28 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The tipping point for me in this episode was Randall swooping on in to save the day with regards to Rebecca and her medications.  Take that scene out and it did feel pretty balanced.  Honestly, Toby should have been the one to figure out what happened since he is the one who has taken daily medications for years and would have experience with OTC medications and contraindications.  Or Miguel because he is Rebecca's husband and he would be there for Rebecca's appointments.  

Yeah, I think that pushed it over the edge for me to, from a good balance to very Randall-centric.

I'm very surprised that Miguel wasn't given shit because he said "yeah, I remember that from the list" when he was talking to the doctor.

[Racj82]

54 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The tipping point for me in this episode was Randall swooping on in to save the day with regards to Rebecca and her medications.  Take that scene out and it did feel pretty balanced.  Honestly, Toby should have been the one to figure out what happened since he is the one who has taken daily medications for years and would have experience with OTC medications and contraindications.  Or Miguel because he is Rebecca's husband and he would be there for Rebecca's appointments.  

There is no storyline purpose to having Toby figure it out. Having Randall figure it out is for thematic purposes. He's the one that didn't think they could deal with the issue without professional help. So, this just strengthens his resolve. He will still want to do the trial later and this will be the main reason why. And do believe he's not mad about it. Her going lost just won't make things better in that regard 

I get the too much Randall thing but every sibling got their stories set up for the season. But, Kate and Kevin partially had theirs set up already. Randall dealing with BLM on top of his established issues means it would take more time to develop throughout the episode.

Also, Randall is the one with mysteries outside of the family, so there is more to explore there.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I honestly do not believe this episode was overly "Randallized."

For me, it's not specifically this episode.  It's what this episode foretells.  Laurel and William = Randall.  Randall and his current therapist part ways. Randall shows up at cabin and is involved with figuring out the meds.  William and Laurel are not going to be a one-off.  We're likely going to get Randall finding a new therapist and several sessions there.  More William and Laurel.  The show is becoming imbalanced, and there are other stories to tell that involve other characters and other ways to tell stories (Black Lives Matter) that need to be told.  Randall, however, isn't the sole Black character nor the sole storyteller on this show.

[Ohiopirate02]

53 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

There is no storyline purpose to having Toby figure it out. Having Randall figure it out is for thematic purposes. He's the one that didn't think they could deal with the issue without professional help. So, this just strengthens his resolve. He will still want to do the trial later and this will be the main reason why. And do believe he's not mad about it. Her going lost just won't make things better in that regard 

I get the too much Randall thing but every sibling got their stories set up for the season. But, Kate and Kevin partially had theirs set up already. Randall dealing with BLM on top of his established issues means it would take more time to develop throughout the episode.

Also, Randall is the one with mysteries outside of the family, so there is more to explore there.

Having Randall figure it out is the show adding truth to Randall's delusions that the rest of the Pearsons would be dead if not for him.  It's another example of the show saying Randall is right instead of this being his issue to deal with.  

[topanga]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:36 PM, txhorns79 said:

I think Randall told Kevin that Jack died ashamed of him. 

Funny, they didn't show that in the season flashback--I'd forgotten myself. But they played what Kevin said to Randall. 

 

On 10/28/2020 at 5:15 PM, BoogieBurns said:

I posted, "Y'all were ALL Kate in this scene this summer," on social media. Because yeah, they really wanted me comforting them that this stuff finally hurt their feelings. I like to remind them I've been upset since Rodney King and I was four when that happened. This ain't new. You don't get a "woke cookie," Kate.

This made me laugh so hard.

On 10/28/2020 at 5:27 PM, nixgirl28 said:

I agree, i found her comment to be very insensitive. This couple thought one of their babies might have died, calling that any type of "excitement" was so bad. I've been there too, also with bad endings unfortunately, and it's scary and painful, it was almost like the ob was making a joke since it turned out ok. That scene was triggering for me too and I'm glad they didn't lose a baby, the episode was already such a downer, it would've been hard to keep watching the season.

And I didn't find it insensitive. Maybe because I'm the medical field, but I interpreted the OBs words to mean, "Phew. We were all worried there. Turns out everything's fine." She sounded happy. I didn't think she was discounting Madison and Kevin's concerns. They were all concerned, so she performed another test and alleviated everyone's fears. 

[Blakeston]

I've never begrudged Randall his right to be angry about racism, or the pain he felt as a child feeling out of place in his own family. And there were a lot of things I liked about his conversation with Kate. I think it's perfectly reasonable for him to express that he wished he'd been talking about racism with his siblings all along.

But at the same time, I think he was somewhat accusatory. When Kate told him how bad she felt about the amount of racism in society, his response was something like, "This isn't the first time a Black person was killed. Why didn't you say something before?" There's something accusatory about that - as in, "Were the deaths of people like Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice and Sandra Bland not sad enough for you?"

And if he wants to be accusatory, that's his right. He doesn't have to tiptoe around her feelings. But I kind of wish she had responded by saying, "For the same reason you've never talked to me about #MeToo, or told me how sorry you were whenever there were stories in the news about women being raped and murdered."

It says a lot about Randall that Malik reached out to him, rather than him reaching out to Malik. And it says a lot that he was too busy dealing with his own feelings to respond to his daughter's obvious trauma about watching the news.

In the early seasons, it seemed like Kate and Kevin never matured beyond 17 (the age when they experienced extreme trauma), and Randall was the one who had become a full adult. But the more recent seasons have shown that Randall has never gotten past being the little boy who feels abandoned and out of place. He has no appreciation for the many ways that he's privileged, as a straight, able-bodied, tall handsome man, with tons of resources and a powerful job that he got by committing electoral fraud (by pretending he lived in William's building) . HIs concern is only in how racism affects him, to the point that he's oblivious to how it's affecting his own child.

[Ohmo]

10 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

But at the same time, I think he was somewhat accusatory. When Kate told him how bad she felt about the amount of racism in society, his response was something like, "This isn't the first time a Black person was killed. Why didn't you say something before?" There's something accusatory about that - as in, "Were the deaths of people like Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice and Sandra Bland not sad enough for you?"

And if he wants to be accusatory, that's his right. He doesn't have to tiptoe around her feelings. But I kind of wish she had responded by saying, "For the same reason you've never talked to me about #MeToo, or told me how sorry you were whenever there were stories in the news about women being raped and murdered."

It says a lot about Randall that Malik reached out to him, rather than him reaching out to Malik. And it says a lot that he was too busy dealing with his own feelings to respond to his daughter's obvious trauma about watching the news.

In the early seasons, it seemed like Kate and Kevin never matured beyond 17 (the age when they experienced extreme trauma), and Randall was the one who had become a full adult. But the more recent seasons have shown that Randall has never gotten past being the little boy who feels abandoned and out of place. He has no appreciation for the many ways that he's privileged, as a straight, able-bodied, tall handsome man, with tons of resources and a powerful job that he got by committing electoral fraud (by pretending he lived in William's building) . HIs concern is only in how racism affects him, to the point that he's oblivious to how it's affecting his own child.

All of this. +1

Edited October 30, 2020 by Ohmo

[kili]

Quote

Having Randall figure it out is the show adding truth to Randall's delusions that the rest of the Pearsons would be dead if not for him.  It's another example of the show saying Randall is right instead of this being his issue to deal with. 

I'm beginning to think that is what the show is telling us. Randall isn't delusional, the rest of the family and viewers just haven't come around that he is always right and questioning him is just standing in the way of his all-knowing greatness. He's not being obsessive, the other characters are being careless and stupid.

Randall isn't wrong to obsess over Deja during the bachelor party - Beth is a heartless being for having fun at the strip club and challenging Randall when he abruptly demand they leave Las Vegas. Of course, Deja was really in trouble. Hope you enjoyed your dance Beth - it meant Deja had to spend longer living homeless. But, then she was also wrong to question Randall's adoption plan, so what do we expect?

Randall isn't wrong to go run for election in a city where he is never lived and doesn't know the people or issues. Randall isn't wrong for not quitting the election when he promised he would if Beth thought it was harming the family. Randall isn't wrong for thinking he could win when all the polls were saying he would lose. Nope. Beth is just a shrew and Jae Won and the preacher just have to learn to accept Randall is always right.

Randall isn't wrong when he thinks Rebecca has memory problems. Rebecca and Miguel are in denial. Randall is right and tries to get her help, but stupid Kevin tries to let Rebecca choose and careless Miguel doesn't track her medicine so Rebecca gets lost. Randall has to drive all the way to the cabin, sort out the issue in 15 minutes and drive home. 

The show: None of the family would last 5 minutes if Randall wasn't there to save them. Don't question him. Accept it!

 

 

[jenifaohjenny]

People are over Randall being upset about having no support as a person of color raised in an all white family? It might feel uncomfortable, but that is because it should feel uncomfortable. There is no just getting over it.

He was lucky for the great family he has, but no one can discount his feelings of how it was. I know it is a TV show but the writing for me was super on-point. I actually cried at the end when he said he was sad and Beth said...we have to press on. Because basically everything right now feels so unsettled, unsure, terrifying about the virus and the election. I found it comforting actually. 

[CountryCrazy]

I’m tired of the Randall Hour because this is show is no longer This Is Us is all All About   Randall ! His insecurities, His history , His feelings ! His Problems , etc etc etc !! And yes I’m tired of hearing about George Floyd and BLM ( ALL LIVES MATTER ) No wonder this show dropped in the rating ! Sterling Brown is not the be all and end of this show but has become the most Prominent Actor in this series and if the season premiere is any indication of what’s coming up I’ll gladly leave ! I loved this series but while I always liked Randall before I cannot stand him now he is now the most sanctimonious and whiny and needy character ever on the show and he acts like he is God which he is not by any means ! 

1 hour ago, kili said:

I'm beginning to think that is what the show is telling us. Randall isn't delusional, the rest of the family and viewers just haven't come around that he is always right and questioning him is just standing in the way of his all-knowing greatness. He's not being obsessive, the other characters are being careless and stupid.

Randall isn't wrong to obsess over Deja during the bachelor party - Beth is a heartless being for having fun at the strip club and challenging Randall when he abruptly demand they leave Las Vegas. Of course, Deja was really in trouble. Hope you enjoyed your dance Beth - it meant Deja had to spend longer living homeless. But, then she was also wrong to question Randall's adoption plan, so what do we expect?

Randall isn't wrong to go run for election in a city where he is never lived and doesn't know the people or issues. Randall isn't wrong for not quitting the election when he promised he would if Beth thought it was harming the family. Randall isn't wrong for thinking he could win when all the polls were saying he would lose. Nope. Beth is just a shrew and Jae Won and the preacher just have to learn to accept Randall is always right.

Randall isn't wrong when he thinks Rebecca has memory problems. Rebecca and Miguel are in denial. Randall is right and tries to get her help, but stupid Kevin tries to let Rebecca choose and careless Miguel doesn't track her medicine so Rebecca gets lost. Randall has to drive all the way to the cabin, sort out the issue in 15 minutes and drive home. 

The show: None of the family would last 5 minutes if Randall wasn't there to save them. Don't question him. Accept it!

 

 

No I won’t accept it Randall really sucks ! 

[meep.meep]

On 10/29/2020 at 12:24 AM, bybrandy said:

I'd also say that if I had a family history of depression I would be more apt to pick adoptive parents who disclosed treatment for depression.  It can be hereditary and I would want my child to have somebody in their corner whose mind might go their quicker when they saw their kid experiencing the same symptoms and who would be able to talk to the kid about their own experience with depression so the child felt less alone as they began treatment.   

 

Similarly, maybe the birth mother is overweight and wants a couple like her.

[doodlebug]

16 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

My assumption was always that Randall's PI did exactly that...there would be a death certificate from a woman being found dead near the firehouse and I would think a good PI could easily get access to records like that. It doesn't seem unreasonable that an ME would notice she had recently given birth and include that in some kind of report.  And now that we know William was there with baby Randall when the paramedics arrived and that they mentioned the police, there would be a report that mentioned that the father disappeared with the baby. It would be pretty easy for a PI to tie that to a baby left at a fire station nearby. 

But if Laurel didn't actually die, then it makes less sense. Was there another drug addict that died nearby and somehow linked back to William?

All of this is true, but the authorities, who would've been notified of the abandoned baby left at the firehouse; should've been able to link Randall to his mother way back when he was born.  The police always investigate infant abandonment, the paramedics saw William holding a newborn before they both disappeared.  The fire station was seemingly in their neighborhood. Everyone should've been able to put 2+2 together way back when and done so far more easily that a PI 30+ years later.

We also didn't hear William give his name to the paramedics or tell them he was the baby's father.  As far as we know, the paramedics wouldn't have been able to report his name because they didn't know it.  We don't even know that his name was on the lease or that any of the neighbors could identify him or knew his name or that he and his girlfriend were expecting.  Perhaps his name was in a police report as the tenant or as Laurel's boyfriend; but it would be a ridiculously huge leap for a PI to then report to Randall 30 + years after the fact that he had definitely found his father.  Even the link to Laurel was completely circumstantial at that point.

Of course, the most realistic answer is that Laurel didn't die of the OD the day after Randall was born but recovered, only to die of an overdose a short time later.  So, the PI's report that Laurel died of an OD would be true, it just wasn't the OD that William witnessed.  However, having watched this show from the start and knowing how TPTB have placed Randall as the center of the show's universe, I think it is most likely that she is still alive which makes the whole story illogical.

ETA: Randall's father was named William Hill and there are probably thousands with that same name in the US.  Even if the paramedics had the name, the odds that a PI was going to figure out exactly which William Hill was the one he was looking for were astronomical.

Edited October 30, 2020 by doodlebug

[himela]

It's funny though that a good percentage of people in this forum are tired and upset with Randall being shown too much but Randall gets the majority of the posts. 😛

I'm tired of Randall as well. I am way more interested to see what his relationship with Beth and the girls is than all this drama with his siblings and his dad and his bio dad and so on. I want to see his everyday life with his family, how the girls are growing up etc.

[CountryCrazy]

16 minutes ago, himela said:

It's funny though that a good percentage of people in this forum are tired and upset with Randall being shown too much but Randall gets the majority of the posts. 😛

I'm tired of Randall as well. I am way more interested to see what his relationship with Beth and the girls is than all this drama with his siblings and his dad and his bio dad and so on. I want to see his everyday life with his family, how the girls are growing up etc.

Great post and may I add I agree ! I liked it better when the show focused more in Randall and his Family issues so thank you for putting into words my overall feelings about Randall ! I appreciate it 😀