S16.E03: Week 3

[DEL901]

4 hours ago, nutty1 said:

I watched last night. My takeaways....

I thought Clare was 39, not 15!

She was in love with Dale after spending what? 3 total hours talking to him?

I can look at Bennett and Jordan all day.  

What? Why? What happened with her when she went in to kiss that guy (I already forget his name)??!! 

I want to know why Jordan was holding a stuffed animal.

 

3 hours?   Maybe, but I don’t think they spent much of that time talking.  

As for the aborted kiss and associated drama.... it didn’t look like he pulled back to me (ew.com posted a gif in their recap), it was more like he was startled.  Then she pulled away and he realized this might be his only chance and he panicked.  

Btw, I think Clare froze and aborted the kiss when she realized he wasn’t Dale, but even she realized that wouldn’t go over well.   

[saber5055]

19 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Btw, I think Clare froze and aborted the kiss when she realized he wasn’t Dale, but even she realized that wouldn’t go over well.   

LOL! So much this. Instead she had to come up with some I'm A Traumatized Woman excuse. Sorry folks, but that was crap. She should have just said "Oh, no, I thought there for a minute that you were Dale, but you're not, so get your grubs off me, creep. And GO HOME."

At the very least, she should have just said she wasn't ready to kiss him then. For some crazy reason, I doubt Zach would have jumped her and raped her or hit her or knocked her down or even called her a school-yard bad name. My take is he would have just said, "Oh, ees okay." End of drama.

But "end of drama" is not Clare's mission.

[archer1267]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

From The Office.

It's not just the physical resemblance, but the way the character becomes self-destructive.

Jan started the series as a competent, structured boss, if a bit tightly-wound. She went through a divorce (her husband hadn't wanted kids) and then after a romance with Michael (her subordinate) started unraveling on different fronts, mostly blowing off her job. She wound up getting fired, awkwardly hit up former colleagues to invest in her handmade candle company. She eventually decides to use a sperm bank to get pregnant, since time's running out, and maybe Clare will go that route herself, who knows. (I know this is already OT, but I hate what the writers did with Jan's character - not that she should have wound up with Michael at all, but they made her into a shrewish hot mess.) 

[saber5055]

I haven't heard Clare talking about or dwelling on wanting kids. She just uses that when she's dumping some guy: "I'd never want anyone like you to be the father of my kids." That's her burn to insult some guy who's "wronged" her. In her mind anyway. If she's ever talked about wanting to have children as a pressing point in her life, I either missed it or wasn't paying attention.

Women also don't have to be married to have kids, so there's that, too.

[TiredMe]

Overall I am discouraged reading some of the remarks on here. She's an asshole so she can't be telling the truth about being in an abusive relationship (I guess she has to have bruise pics). Or she's over reacting to Zach or her response is not believable. I can say from personal experience, I probably would have hauled off and slugged Zach for a neck grab like that. 

That being said, I don't think Claire was a good pick for Bachelorette and I'm glad she's being replaced. She is tiresome. 

 

[OnTime]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

I watched last night. My takeaways....

I thought Clare was 39, not 15!

She was in love with Dale after spending what? 3 total hours talking to him?

No, she was in love with Dale after stalking his instagram page so she didn't even need to talk to him.  He was her husband when he walked out of the limo.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by OnTime

[tinkerbell]

10 hours ago, EllenB said:

Clare does look a lot like Jan... and matches her emotional instability. And the way she treats men.

thank you!   yes, Jan from The Office -  pretty, seems like a strong, independent woman -  and then you see the batshit crazy side.  

[Wandering Snark]

33 minutes ago, OnTime said:

No, she was in love with Dale after stalking his instagram page so she didn't even need to talk to him.  He was her husband when he walked out of the limo.

It must have been the Mr. Taco picture that did it for her. He was her husband when he walked out of the limo and apparently is her fiancé now!!

[tinkerbell]

8 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

So a woman is old if she wants kids, but may struggle to have them?  Wow... 

There are many women in their 20s who are struggling to become pregnant naturally.  Then they have the added difficulty of carrying the pregnancy to full term.  Are these women in their 20s "old" because they have low fertility?  A woman's fertility sharply decreases after 25, so would a 28 year old woman be too old in your eyes since she is significantly less fertile (statistically speaking) than a 24 year old? Many of these 20-something year old women will never marry as most men refuse to marry these days.  Are they old because their chances of marriage are next to nothing? 

A person is young (or old) regardless of their fertility status or marital status.  At 39, Clare is batshit insane, but she is definitely young.  I'm younger than Clare, but I've taken care of people of all ages.  By having this experience, I've realized that in the grand scheme of things, 39 (or even those in their 40s) is really young and don't have nearly has much knowledge about life as you would think. People think they know so much when they reach their 30s and 40s, but they actually know very little.  They are "kids" in comparison to older adults.  

Rant over.

Is THAT what you got from my post?    WOW, way to misinterpret.  

My post was just to point out that for the majority of women, fertility is decreasing at this age.  Clare indicates that she wants marriage and children.   she is at the age where she better get going on that goal.  It's not instantaneous.  she has to date exclusively, get engaged, married, figure out if they want kids right away or wait a year or two - and at that point might run into fertility problems.  I NEVER said women with low fertility are "old."  I stated that at 39, if you want marriage and kids, you have to act fast.  I know women who started menopause at age 40.  As you get to your 40's the CHANCE of having fertility problems gets bigger each year.  Additionally, the risk for other medical problems which could interfere with pregnancy also goes up.  Breast cancer, heart attack, stroke, any medical condition requiring medication, can all impact a woman's ability to get pregnant, or to carry a baby to term.   So, yeah, I stand by what I said which is  -  Clare, at 39 is "old"  for the stage of life she is at - dating, looking for a husband, wanting children.  

I never said women wth fertility problems are old.  

[tinkerbell]

Actually, to be more accurate -  Clare is like Jan when Jan came back with NEW BOOBS! 

As someone posted, it's not just the physical resemblance and haircut.  It's a woman who at first glance looks like a smart, strong, independent professional woman - then shows her crazy narcissistic, attention-seeking personality disorder.  A crazy combination of  insecurity and inflated self-worth.  

If they TRIED to cast a "jan from the office"  type on Bachelorette, they couldn't have picked a more perfect  person than Clare.  

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, TiredMe said:

Overall I am discouraged reading some of the remarks on here. She's an asshole so she can't be telling the truth about being in an abusive relationship (I guess she has to have bruise pics). Or she's over reacting to Zach or her response is not believable. I can say from personal experience, I probably would have hauled off and slugged Zach for a neck grab like that. 

That being said, I don't think Claire was a good pick for Bachelorette and I'm glad she's being replaced. She is tiresome. 

 

Why automatically believe only her side? She treats men like shit. Maybe she was abused, but a lot of abused people become abusers. I just don’t want to see it play out on the Bachelorette. She needs therapy, not ass kissing. She’s had plenty of stans whining about how it’s always the big bad man’s fault, and is still bitching about a guy from seven damn years ago. I’ve seen every manipulation game out there. She’s a manipulator, and not an amusing one. 

[nittany cougar]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I haven't heard Clare talking about or dwelling on wanting kids. She just uses that when she's dumping some guy: "I'd never want anyone like you to be the father of my kids." That's her burn to insult some guy who's "wronged" her. In her mind anyway. If she's ever talked about wanting to have children as a pressing point in her life, I either missed it or wasn't paying attention.

Women also don't have to be married to have kids, so there's that, too.

The only reason that I thought she wanted kids is her use of "the father of my kids" in her arguments with Juan Pablo and the other guy.  It seemed like that is what she hoped for herself.

With all of the producer involvement on this show, it is possible that someone told her to say "the father of my children."  It is a strange and overdramatic way to insult someone.  

I also can't believe that no guy has said, "Why the hell would I want to have children with you?"  Maybe they did and it was cut out.

Edited October 29, 2020 by nittany cougar

[greeneyedscorpio]

5 hours ago, OnTime said:

Who is Jan?

A character on The Office

Edited October 29, 2020 by greeneyedscorpio
sorry didn't read the rest of the thread before i answered

[the-grey-lady]

Mr. Grey at the end of this episode: Wait, are they bringing on a new Bachelorette?

Me: Yep and stay there for a second. Wait 'til you see her boobs.

[Kiss my mutt]

At least they look real from what I can tell, though I’m no expert. I should be after watching so much reality tv. 

[nlkm9]

23 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

During the ATFR of Andi's season Nick asked Andi, "If you weren't going to pick me why did we do fiance things in the Fantasy Suite?"  Andi was furious that he would "kiss and tell" like that.  That was all back in the olden days before proud declarations about the number of times in windmills while the man's parents cheer in the audience.  

andi was pissed and embarassed because she almost certainly told Josh nothing happened. honestly, what an awkward moment and you could see Josh was livid.

[PhysNerd]

12 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

It’s biology. A woman at 39 looking for a spouse is going to have trouble if she wants a baby, because she’s going to want it now. The spouse person is going to balk at her determination. The spouse person is also going to weight the cost of things like IVF, the stress involved, and being tied down almost immediately. 
Men don’t have that problem. Sorry if it’s not fair, it’s nature. I knew at 39 my time had passed. It was either younger guys who wanted to play, or older guys with kids. 
 

Clare is single because she’s an asshole. She plays out her issues and runs men off. Your SO isn’t a therapist. Even an ugly guy would tire of hearing about her abusive relationship. Frankly, I’m not sure she was the abused. 

Obviously you didn't read my post.  I said after 25, fertility already decreases significantly. That is biology.  Many women in their 20s already have fertility issues and cannot have children naturally.  Would you consider a 28 year old woman to be old and undesirable since her fertility has dropped significantly?

If a man is serious and wants kids, they are not going to shy away from a woman who wants kids immediately.  The problem is when a woman in her late 30s pursues men who are in their early 30s or younger (i.e. what Clare is doing). These men usually do not want to commit immediately and have kids, which is understandble.  They are better off dating 21 year old women who  are more willing to waste their youth dating the same guy for 10 years waiting for a ring when the man has zero intention of marriage. A woman in her 30s is less likely to put up with nonsense and will walk after 2 years if there isn't even an engagement. 

 

[Mu Shu]

52 minutes ago, PhysNerd said:

Obviously you didn't read my post.  I said after 25, fertility already decreases significantly. That is biology.  Many women in their 20s already have fertility issues and cannot have children naturally.  Would you consider a 28 year old woman to be old and undesirable since her fertility has dropped significantly?

If a man is serious and wants kids, they are not going to shy away from a woman who wants kids immediately.  The problem is when a woman in her late 30s pursues men who are in their early 30s or younger (i.e. what Clare is doing). These men usually do not want to commit immediately and have kids, which is understandble.  They are better off dating 21 year old women who  are more willing to waste their youth dating the same guy for 10 years waiting for a ring when the man has zero intention of marriage. A woman in her 30s is less likely to put up with nonsense and will walk after 2 years if there isn't even an engagement. 

 

You know, I’m commenting on a TV show. It’s not that serious. You seem to be taking this personally. 

[TiredMe]

7 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Why automatically believe only her side? She treats men like shit. Maybe she was abused, but a lot of abused people become abusers. I just don’t want to see it play out on the Bachelorette. She needs therapy, not ass kissing. She’s had plenty of stans whining about how it’s always the big bad man’s fault, and is still bitching about a guy from seven damn years ago. I’ve seen every manipulation game out there. She’s a manipulator, and not an amusing one. 

I never said I believe her side. I cannot comment on the truthfulness because I have no idea. My point was because she’s not the most likable person and has been a terrible Bachelorette  people have said that she’s over reacted or that tool Yosef was right in treating her that way, etc etc No one deserves that kind of treatment. I think we can prob both agree we will be glad to see the end of her Bachelorette run. 

[huahaha]

So many judgy comments about fertility that aren’t even true. The average age of last baby (in a world without birth control) is 39-42. That means half of women’s youngest babies were born even later than that.

Anyway. Clare is much too unstable and immature to be the lead of a show. It was painful to watch her mistreating all of those guys. With the exception of Yosef, she seems to have the best group of guys I’ve seen on this show, and she’s so insecure and narcissistic that she can’t even be kind or polite. 

[Mu Shu]

8 hours ago, TiredMe said:

I never said I believe her side. I cannot comment on the truthfulness because I have no idea. My point was because she’s not the most likable person and has been a terrible Bachelorette  people have said that she’s over reacted or that tool Yosef was right in treating her that way, etc etc No one deserves that kind of treatment. I think we can prob both agree we will be glad to see the end of her Bachelorette run. 

She doesn’t deserve that treatment, but she seeks it. She shouldn’t be on TV, but there she is, seven years later, still sobbing like a high school freshman. People are saying she overreacted, and she did, because at 39 she should have some maturity, and she doesn’t. That Yosef guy is an asshole. She should have seen that and blown him off and went back to do the job she was paid to do. But she didn’t. She cried on the shoulder of a man almost a decade younger. Most of us by 39 have dealt with a Yosef without crying and going home from work. She’s a hairdresser. She meets all types of people, and should be more socially adept. She isn’t, and it’s irritating to watch. I don’t want to hear about her traumas. I don’t have a PhD or MD. I’m just trying to watch a reality show.

[nittany cougar]

8 hours ago, huahaha said:

So many judgy comments about fertility that aren’t even true. The average age of last baby (in a world without birth control) is 39-42. That means half of women’s youngest babies were born even later than that.

Anyway. Clare is much too unstable and immature to be the lead of a show. It was painful to watch her mistreating all of those guys. With the exception of Yosef, she seems to have the best group of guys I’ve seen on this show, and she’s so insecure and narcissistic that she can’t even be kind or polite. 

I did not mean to judge.  My comments are only based on my personal experience of getting married and trying to get pregnant at the age of 40.  

I think Clare has the mental maturity of a teen to early 20's individual and she is extremely vain.  I get the feeling that she was considered beautiful as a younger person and thinks her beauty should get her what she wants with men.

Edited October 30, 2020 by nittany cougar

[Bluesky]

On 10/28/2020 at 8:10 AM, nlkm9 said:

The cancelling of the dinner is one of the meanest things i have ever seen, also the refusal to hand out the group rose to anyone . Mean. And I’ve been watching this show from day one . I do wonder if Clare and dale are sneaking out every night. But to be stood up at dinner ?? After she went to kiss him? Not nice . These guys quarantined for you - suck it up and have dinner . I can’t wait for the men tell all!!

Also you could feel her rage when she kicked that poor guy out because he didn’t research her enough to compliment her on her great personality.  That was not normal. 

[huahaha]

13 minutes ago, Bluesky said:

Also you could feel her rage when she kicked that poor guy out because he didn’t research her enough to compliment her on her great personality.  That was not normal. 

She’s appears to be a fragile/vulnerable “covert” narcissist. I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, but this is painful to watch. 

[CindyBee]

11 hours ago, huahaha said:

 

Anyway. Clare is much too unstable and immature to be the lead of a show. It was painful to watch her mistreating all of those guys. With the exception of Yosef, she seems to have the best group of guys I’ve seen on this show, and she’s so insecure and narcissistic that she can’t even be kind or polite. 

I know so many great guys:  Ivan, Dr. Joe, Ben, Bennett, Riley, Zac, Demar, Brendan.  Evan Jason and his baggage and boy band Kenny seem okay when compared to past seasons.   

These guys are going to very, very, very, popular in bachelor reject land.   Hannah B has been instagram flirting with Bennett and you know she and all the other single ladies are sliding into the DMs.

[waving feather]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:26 AM, Sheenieb said:

I also didn't bat an eye when she called Dale her fiance. It's early, yes, but is it crazier than getting engaged after 9 weeks?

Yes, because first of all he hasn't even asked her yet or she hasn't gotten a yes from him yet. So, definitely crazier.

[Sheenieb]

2 hours ago, waving feather said:

Yes, because first of all he hasn't even asked her yet or she hasn't gotten a yes from him yet. So, definitely crazier.

The whole concept of this show is crazy. What's one more thing? 

[TVMovieBuff]

Clare is a Pisces, and they're all nuts. I love them; I have had a lot of Pisces friends. But they are crazy.

[peachmangosteen]

Let's move on from the fertility convo. I think everyone has gotten their point across and it was largely off topic in the first place.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 10/28/2020 at 6:59 PM, Dottie D said:

I just finished watching last night's episode, and Clare comes off completely unlikeable.  There's so much to say, but everyone has already said it.

Only upon watching Clare in this episode did I realize that I never had strong feelings one way or the other about any previous bachelorette.  But I'm finding her very unlikable. 

Also, I noticed that in some scenes, she had her face pointing a little bit to the camera's right, but her mouth seemed like it was facing straight into the camera.  It looked like her mouth was photoshopped on or something.  So I'm reading the US magazine article linked to upthread, and there's a photo that sure enough shows her mouth is definitely on the right side of her face.  The shadows are a little weird, but if you draw a line down from each nostril, they're not equidistant from the edges of her mouth.

[PhysNerd]

What I don't understand is why Clare previously had a history of being attracted to abusive men.  Many psychologists claim the these type of women had a poor relationship or nonexistent relationship with their father.  However, it seems Clare had a loving relationship with her father before he passed away and speaks very highly of him.  Despite having a positive male role model, she is attracted to toxic men.  Why is that? It's not just Clare.  I've seen this play out in real life.  I've seen countless women with amazing fathers ending up with toxic men and they choose to stay with their abusers even when every resource is offered to help them leave and get back on their feet.  

[saber5055]

14 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm reading the US magazine article linked to upthread, and there's a photo that sure enough shows her mouth is definitely on the right side of her face.  The shadows are a little weird, but if you draw a line down from each nostril, they're not equidistant from the edges of her mouth.

Sloppy botox job.

[Dehumidifier]

On 10/29/2020 at 7:46 PM, PhysNerd said:

A woman in her 30s is less likely to put up with nonsense and will walk after 2 years if there isn't even an engagement. 
 

Two years is too long to wait for an engagement in your thirties.

[PhysNerd]

12 hours ago, Dehumidifier said:

Two years is too long to wait for an engagement in your thirties.

Lol, no it isn't.  There are people in their 50s who date for a couple of years before getting married and you think it is too long too wait for someone in their 30s??  Most people are not going to feel comfortable getting engaged and married within their first year of dating.  It's fantastic if that happens, but it is not the norm.  Men, in particular, are very conscious of the financial consequences of divorce, so many of them are reluctant to marry in the first place.  Insisting on being married in the first year of dating will scare away most sane men.  Two years is a bit more palatable for both men and women.  If someone wants to be married within a couple of months of dating, then their best bet is date someone who is very religious.....or become a bachelor/bachelorette contestant.

 

[readster]

23 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

What I don't understand is why Clare previously had a history of being attracted to abusive men.  Many psychologists claim the these type of women had a poor relationship or nonexistent relationship with their father.  However, it seems Clare had a loving relationship with her father before he passed away and speaks very highly of him.  Despite having a positive male role model, she is attracted to toxic men.  Why is that? It's not just Clare.  I've seen this play out in real life.  I've seen countless women with amazing fathers ending up with toxic men and they choose to stay with their abusers even when every resource is offered to help them leave and get back on their feet.  

Same here, even dated a woman who was still stuck on the toxicity of her ex just because "we were together for three years". I was like: "And he screwed you over and basically revealed he probably never loved you." We broke up and then she got over her ex, and found out later since I had a great relationship with her parents. The said ex of her's got married and ended having a baby and that's when she realized she had been wasting her time and I moved on. Never knew where she is now, but ran into her brother a few years ago and she is still can't stay with the good men everyone likes and keeps going out with guys who used her or treated her like crap. She broke off ties with her parents because they suggested she get help for her toxic relationships and she decided to break off communication with them. Sometimes it just boggles the mind why people do that to themselves. 

[Lemons]

On 10/30/2020 at 10:37 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Only upon watching Clare in this episode did I realize that I never had strong feelings one way or the other about any previous bachelorette.  But I'm finding her very unlikable. 

Also, I noticed that in some scenes, she had her face pointing a little bit to the camera's right, but her mouth seemed like it was facing straight into the camera.  It looked like her mouth was photoshopped on or something.  So I'm reading the US magazine article linked to upthread, and there's a photo that sure enough shows her mouth is definitely on the right side of her face.  The shadows are a little weird, but if you draw a line down from each nostril, they're not equidistant from the edges of her mouth.

She is not nearly attractive enough for the men to be instantly attracted to her and that includes Dale.  If she had a great personality and appeal, the men would start to be very interested and start to find themselves very attracted to her.  But all I saw is men starting to retreat away from her.  The few who still claimed interest would have to be great actors to keep that up.  I don't think the program had a choice but to dump her.

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

If someone wants to be married within a couple of months of dating, then their best bet is date someone who is very religious.....or become a bachelor/bachelorette contestant.

And it's shocking to me how often those two intersect.

[PhysNerd]

14 minutes ago, Lemons said:

She is not nearly attractive enough for the men to be instantly attracted to her and that includes Dale.  If she had a great personality and appeal, the men would start to be very interested and start to find themselves very attracted to her.  But all I saw is men starting to retreat away from her.  The few who still claimed interest would have to be great actors to keep that up.  I don't think the program had a choice but to dump her.

Clare may look even better in person.  Who knows?  I've seen very handsome men married to downright homely women who had nasty personalities to boot, so I don't see why these men wouldn't be instantly attracted to Clare.  She is definitely beautiful and she is in good physical shape.  Many women her age and even those in their 20s don't have nearly as good of a body.  Her issue is her personality, but a bad personality won't stop a man from marrying her.  

[Bluesky]

5 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

Clare may look even better in person.  Who knows?  I've seen very handsome men married to downright homely women who had nasty personalities to boot, so I don't see why these men wouldn't be instantly attracted to Clare.  She is definitely beautiful and she is in good physical shape.  Many women her age and even those in their 20s don't have nearly as good of a body.  Her issue is her personality, but a bad personality won't stop a man from marrying her.  

I wouldn’t call her beautiful.  She’s in good shape but so are a lot of very nice, normal women.  But I’m not sure why anyone would want to marry a person with a nasty personality.  

[Kerri Johnson]

On 10/29/2020 at 7:31 AM, phlebas said:

It looks like we're split on Tayshia.  Personally, I love her, but different strokes...

I am curious, though.  Given that they would possibly need a replacement Bachelorette -- not just because Clare is a lunatic flight risk, but because of the pandemic -- who should they have brought in?

There wasn't anyone on Peter's season both suitable and available. Especially not for a cast built with a 39 year old in mind. Hannah Ann and Madi are, what, 24 now?  Kelly is unavailable. Victoria Fuller would have caused a huge backlash and I think was with Chris Soules at the time anyhow. Kelsey?

Looking farther back to some of Tayshia's castmates: Hannah G is involved. So is Caelynn. Hannah B already turned them down, apparently (and thank Jesus for that). Demi would be entertaining, but... I dunno... kinda young for this group, sort of a mess, and I think a lot of people are sort of over Demi by now.

So I don't know who else besides Tayshia they could pick.  Plus having a second Black lead would have gone over well during these racially charges days. (Given that, maybe they should have skipped Clare completely and had Tayshia from the start.)

I only started watching with Arie's season, so there might be others I don't know about. 

(I did hear Tia's name come up, but I don't know.  I think they'd go with Kendall before dealing with Tia.)

I think Alayah would have been great. Former Miss Texas, the guys would have loved her.

Tia was one of the 3 considered. Clare, Tayshia, and Tia all signed contracts.

I’m thrilled Tia is no where near this.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Kerri Johnson

[phlebas]

10 hours ago, Kerri Johnson said:

I think Alayah would have been great. Former Miss Texas, the guys would have loved her.

Tia was one of the 3 considered. Clare, Tayshia, and Tia all signed contracts.

I’m thrilled Tia is no where near this.

I forgot about Alayah.  She did get sort of a bum rush with Peter and his inability to grow a spine. I think they were going for a bigger splash than a 25-year-old who basically fits the same mold as everyone else. (Does she identify as Hispanic? We didn't really get to know her.)  But at least she's not a Hannah.

[RealHousewife]

I think Clare is very attractive. She has a classically pretty face, and her body is both fit and curvy. Even if she weren't pretty, most of us know lots of men see blonde hair and big boobs and think "smoking hot."

[LuvMyShows]

On 10/28/2020 at 4:14 PM, TVMovieBuff said:

I don't think the plan was for Clare to screw up the show. 

On 10/29/2020 at 2:00 AM, Back Atcha said:

I agree for these reasons:

• She's not smart enough.
• She's not savvy* enough.
• She's not stable enough.
• She's so self-centered she can't see the forest for the trees.

I'll add this:

• She's not that good of an actress

Seriously, she's not.  She wears her emotions on her sleeve, and that makes it hysterical to watch when she starts getting mad as someone is talking but she's trying to keep it in check.  

[LuvMyShows]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:06 PM, rebel2u said:

I kind of feel bad for these guys.  They were behind the eight ball from day one.  

On 11/1/2020 at 2:57 PM, Lemons said:

If she had a great personality and appeal, the men would start to be very interested and start to find themselves very attracted to her.  But all I saw is men starting to retreat away from her.  The few who still claimed interest would have to be great actors to keep that up.  

So I started feeling bad for them too until I remembered that the vast majority are not here to genuinely find love, and have far more selfish reasons for being here.  

And if the guy who she sent home early (Brandon?) is any indication, the guys are terrible actors.  Before the one-on-one scene with him and Clare, they showed his TH as he was saying the usual crap about being here to find love, etc., etc.,  and he sounded/looked as convincing as those hostages when they are forced by their captors to read a statement. 

[EllenB]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:37 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Only upon watching Clare in this episode did I realize that I never had strong feelings one way or the other about any previous bachelorette.  But I'm finding her very unlikable. 

Also, I noticed that in some scenes, she had her face pointing a little bit to the camera's right, but her mouth seemed like it was facing straight into the camera.  It looked like her mouth was photoshopped on or something.  So I'm reading the US magazine article linked to upthread, and there's a photo that sure enough shows her mouth is definitely on the right side of her face.  The shadows are a little weird, but if you draw a line down from each nostril, they're not equidistant from the edges of her mouth.

My mouth is a little off to one side. I guess I'd better tell my husband that he's a real schmuck for marrying someone with such a dreadful defect. And yeah, I'm a little self-conscious about how it looks in pictures. Are only absolutely perfect people allowed to seek love? Damn.

[Back Atcha]

On 11/1/2020 at 6:34 PM, Bluesky said:

 But I’m not sure why anyone would want to marry a person with a nasty personality.  

I know so many who have...both men and women.  I always wonder if their opposite-sex parent had that same nastiness and they're just drawn to it.

[TVMovieBuff]

4 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

I know so many who have...both men and women.  I always wonder if their opposite-sex parent had that same nastiness and they're just drawn to it.

For a great many guys, they want a hot woman, no matter what her personality is. We have all seen it.

[StatisticalOutlier]

9 hours ago, EllenB said:

My mouth is a little off to one side. I guess I'd better tell my husband that he's a real schmuck for marrying someone with such a dreadful defect. And yeah, I'm a little self-conscious about how it looks in pictures. Are only absolutely perfect people allowed to seek love? Damn.

You quoted me, but I didn't say anything about only absolutely perfect people being allowed to seek love.  Damn. 

I was just making an observation about what I saw in the footage from a very specific angle.  I actually called Mr. Outlier over and asked if her mouth looked wonky in that scene to him, and he said yes, and we both realized it reminded us of when he Photoshopped a different mouth on a photo of his in order to get rid of an unfortunate mustache.  There was something not quite right about it.  Or, actually, very very wrong in the case of his "improved" photo.  For Clare, it's just not quite right.

Anyway, I wouldn't have given it any more thought except I happened to see the photo that explained why her mouth looked somewhat out of place in that scene from the show.  And I figured I'd share it in case anybody else had noticed but hadn't been able to put their finger on it.

 

 

[JudyObscure]

22 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

And I figured I'd share it in case anybody else had noticed but hadn't been able to put their finger on it.

Ees okay by me, Statistical!  I've always liked to think we had an unwritten rule here.  So long as a B'ette is in favor, nice to the other women, considerate to the men, we only notice her good features, but once she proves to be self-centered or mean -- then we get to pick her apart!

Take Oliva.  We all thought that she was stunning in the first episode of Ben Higgin's season.  Then she started bragging about being a front runner and  suddenly we noticed her cankles.

I say this as someone whose mouth is definitely off center according to my dentist.