S39.E13: Mama, Look at Me Now

[Whimsy]

This is the episode thread for the season finale, including the announcement of the winner. Do not come here unless you are prepared to see who won. 

[Whimsy]

The live threads are closed. You can resume discussing the episode here. 

[cooksdelight]

As soon as Tommy was announced as the winner I changed the channel. He did nothing, brought nothing, was boring as hell. Noura needs to have her lips duct taped to shut her up. I thought Dean was the better of the three but with this cast there were very few to pick from as deserving. 

This goes down as the most boring season ever, in my opinion. Hearing people say they’ve been watching since they were 7 made me feel old.

[TVFan1]

I have to admit I was really rooting for Dean to win. It seemed like it was going that way for a bit. Overall, it was a boring final 3 and congratulations to Tommy. He's boring, but a decent winner to this season.

[Lantern7]

*sigh* Well, this was a bad season. Like, a different kind of bad than last time. Instead of the winner being some putz who was only in the recognized game (for lack of a better term) for one-third of his season, we slogged through flawed people and nice ones getting knocked out of the game in tearjerking fashion.

As much as the Nullifier is a nice twist, it just feels too . . . mean? It's one thing when the Mayor of Slamtown got impeached last season . . . but seeing Janet hang onto her idol, play it, and then get it negated? That's sad. She left for the jury, and most of my interest went with her. We managed to get a Final Tribal Council full of yelling, thunder and Noura being Noura . . . but who cares?

I don't like Noura. But she presents herself as an outcast overcoming the odds, and I wonder how I'd react if a guy was in her place. I'd say that I'd hate him as well, but I'm not sure . . . and that's troubling. Watching her yammer at Lauren as she held a machete . . . Noura comes from another planet.

In the end, the teacher that had to remind us that he was a teacher so that we wouldn't forget he was a teacher defeated a space cadet and a guy with "Dan" in his name. Oh, and we found out one of the guys is color-blind. Has that ever come up in past seasons?

Who got the title quote? I'm guessing Noura.

[Alice Mudgarden]

13 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Who got the title quote? I'm guessing Noura.

It was Dean.

I wish Noura won, tbh.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Noura defied all odds making it to the end.  People can crow that she's just a goat but we saw so many people talking about wanting to vote her out - DYING to vote her out. But she made it.  I feel like Dean was dragged to the end more than her.  Unfortunately she probably annoyed everyone on the jury way too much.  Even as a viewer I can't imagine how difficult it was to live with that.

[Eolivet]

And this season gets a mediocre white dude winner who was in the majority, had people falling all over themselves to protect him, was taken to the end by a woman, bragged about how doing nothing was his strategy, and was rewarded for it.

Well, this season certainly got the winner it deserved.

[BK1978]

41 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

And this season gets a mediocre white dude winner who was in the majority, had people falling all over themselves to protect him, was taken to the end by a woman, bragged about how doing nothing was his strategy, and was rewarded for it.

Well, this season certainly got the winner it deserved.

What does his race or sex have to do with anything?  You could say mediocre winner and you could still get your point across.

That being said I agree he was a very boring mediocre winner.  I had Lauren slated as my winner since the first episode, she came close but no cigar.  I was trying to think when the last time I actually picked the correct winner at the beginning of a season and I want to say I picked Earl but it was so long ago I am not sure if that is true.

I am not sure what was more lackluster, the end of last week's the Challenge or this episode. 

[Rachel RSL]

I’m so glad that my office’s Christmas dinner was tonight so I could record the show and fast forward through most of it. What a crappy end to an exhausting season.  Out of the final 3, I think Tommy deserved to win the least. Like, what did he actually do?! It’s bull that Noura didn’t get a single vote when she actually, in my opinion, played a better game and won more challenges than Tommy. But I’m going to chalk that up to her personality just being too....Noura. 

I was so glad to see Lauren go. What an entitled brat, sobbing about how Noura said she was her #1 but didn’t choose her. Please...was Noura ever your #1? No? Then take a seat.

I’m just glad it’s over. This season has been emotionally draining and, while I genuinely appreciate all the intelligent, mature discussions we’ve had here, I really hope next season returns us to our usual light-hearted snark.

 

[Steph Sometimes]

This is the first time in history when we got to the Final 3 were and I spoiled myself who won. I hate spoilers, but I hated Tommy and Dean for so much of this game and of course they were in the final 3. I was so excited when this season started and I saw these cool, strong, strategic women and felt we were getting a woman winner for the first time since...Sarah? I knew Janet was going to be out immediately because of the stupid Nullifier, but then Lauren went right after. And I don't even like Lauren that much. But I was rooting for her. And we end up with these two bozos. Tommy was either whiny or smirky and Dean was either dumb or smirky.

Well, at least it wasn't Dan.

Also, the Nullifier is the absolute worst.

This season had so much potential. And it went to hell so quickly.  I feel kind of letdown in a weird way, in a different way than I was with last season's cluster.

[BK1978]

24 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I’m so glad that my office’s Christmas dinner was tonight so I could record the show and fast forward through most of it. What a crappy end to an exhausting season.  Out of the final 3, I think Tommy deserved to win the least. Like, what did he actually do?! It’s bull that Noura didn’t get a single vote when she actually, in my opinion, played a better game and won more challenges than Tommy. But I’m going to chalk that up to her personality just being too....Noura. 

I was so glad to see Lauren go. What an entitled brat, sobbing about how Noura said she was her #1 but didn’t choose her. Please...was Noura ever your #1? No? Then take a seat.

I’m just glad it’s over. This season has been emotionally draining and, while I genuinely appreciate all the intelligent, mature discussions we’ve had here, I really hope next season returns us to our usual light-hearted snark.

 

I read the spoilers so I knew what was going to happen, but then again you are never 100% sure the spoilers are correct.  Out of the final five I would have liked Janet to win.  I always like to see the older players do good, in particular the older women because they are usually the first to be voted out.

Out of the final three it would have honestly been a toss-up for me between Dean and Noura.  Noura more for the WTF factor.  But I can honestly say I like her and found her oddness very entertaining.  Not on the level of Tarzan, Jimmy T, or Shambo mind you but still very few can get to that special level.

As much as I would have liked Lauren to win, simply because I picked her to win.  I am glad she did not.  The comments she made (was it during or after?) the family visit was the nail in the coffin for me.

Edited December 19, 2019 by BK1978

[txvoodoo]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Noura defied all odds making it to the end.  People can crow that she's just a goat but we saw so many people talking about wanting to vote her out - DYING to vote her out. But she made it.

Noura was the goat that walks behind everyone else going "baaaa look at me baaaa" and no one notices, or if they do, they say "no skin off my back."

She was never a threat. She made it to the end because whoever got to the final 3 knew she made it a final 2, between the other 2 contestants.

She had NO. GAME.

eta: totally forgot Jack existed. Seriously I had to go to the cast page to remind myself who he was. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by txvoodoo
forgot something.

[ByaNose]

24 minutes ago, txvoodoo said:

Noura was the goat that walks behind everyone else going "baaaa look at me baaaa" and no one notices, or if they do, they say "no skin off my back."

She was never a threat. She made it to the end because whoever got to the final 3 knew she made it a final 2, between the other 2 contestants.

She had NO. GAME.

eta: totally forgot Jack existed. Seriously I had to go to the cast page to remind myself who he was. 

She was never a threat and won 3 immunities. Did anyone else do that? I think they all wanted to go to the end with her and they also couldn’t get rid of her either. I guess it’s lucky the whole jury thought she was crazy, too. LOL!!!

All in all, the Dan debacle aside it was a good Finale episode. I still knew Tommy would out of the Final 3? I was just torn if Dean would get 2 or 3 votes. I knew Noura would get none as is the case with woman in a Final 3 with men. It’s crazy how that is still a thing after all this time. 

[30 Helens]

I was hoping Tommy would find the idol so Dean could nullify that one and Janet could be spared.

Then I was hoping Dean would give the idol he found to Tommy and then nullify it as some convoluted Big Move, and Janet could be spared.

Then Janet was voted out and I no longer cared about any of it.  First time ever I was rooting for absolutely no one in the final 3.

I did find myself amused by all the show-off camera work, though.  It’s as if the editors were bored, too.  The only thing missing was a star wipe!

[simplyme]

3 hours ago, BK1978 said:

What does his race or sex have to do with anything?  You could say mediocre winner and you could still get your point across.

For me, the following is why it's significant. This is taken from EW's latest recap at https://ew.com/recap/survivor-season-39-episode-14/

Quote

...

Of course, one thing has become clear, and maybe this was part of my problem all along: If you want to bet on a Survivor winner these days, you better bet on a man.

Yep, Survivor’s unfortunate recent trend of male winners only continued. As I pointed out in a recent article, the gender disparity on Survivor in terms of winners has gotten out of control. Tommy became the fifth consecutive man to win Survivor and the 11th male winner out of the last 14 seasons.

That’s… not good. Updating the equally disturbing stats I put together a few months ago, there have now been 130 votes cast at the final Tribal Councils over the past 14 seasons, and 104 of those votes have gone to men and only 26 to women. And the past five seasons have been a horror show in the gender disparity department. Not only have men won five straight times, and not only has each of those five seasons featured two male finalists and only one female finalist, but check out the breakdown of jury votes. Including Laurel’s tiebreaker vote, 52 votes for a winner have been cast at the past five final Tribal Councils. Of those 52 votes, 50 have gone to men.

The author does go on to give Tommy his due. The problem is not with any individual winner but rather the overall trend (which imo has been either caused or influenced by changes to the show. More HIIs, the fire-making challenge, even going back to the change from primarily an F2 to an F3 seems to have had an effect.)

The one thing that really amused me? The person who won was the person who never made it to IotI to get "mentored" by BRob and Sandra. Clearly they were a huge help. 😂😂

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

As soon as Tommy was announced as the winner I changed the channel. He did nothing, brought nothing, was boring as hell. Noura needs to have her lips duct taped to shut her up. I thought Dean was the better of the three but with this cast there were very few to pick from as deserving. 

This goes down as the most boring season ever, in my opinion. Hearing people say they’ve been watching since they were 7 made me feel old.

This was one of the worst Final 3s (and Final 4s) ever.  I was actively rooting for Dean to beat the other 3 turds, and I hate Dean.

Lauren really disgusted me.  She was angry at Noura for having her make fire and had such an entitled attitude.  Then she votes for "loyal Tommy" who taught Dean how to make fire to eliminate her.

The cast was horrible this season.  There were maybe 3 or 4 likable players.

Dean having 18 advantages at 5 is microcosm of what is wrong with Survivor.  That, horrific casting and the ethics and culture that has developed among players.

If season 40 is another EOE fiasco, I won't watch a minute and I might be done for good.

 

[ProfCrash]

Noura should have had a good case for winning because of her immunity wins and challenge performance. She should not have been a goat.

But she is Noura and has no filter and made herself into a goat. It was crazy to watch. Seriously crazy. One of the worst players ever to play. Who takes three challenge wins into final tribal and loses?

Noura.

Dean is a close second to Noura for awful game play. He oooooooooozes slime. He took two immunity wins, a crappy earned advantage, and a hidden idol to tribal and manages to lose.

seriously.

This season sucked so badly that two of the final three were goats due to piss poor play when they had resumes that should win them the game on any other season.

Tommy’s main argument at final tribal was “I wasn’t awful at the social game and they were.”

Honestly, I wanted Noura to win because she struck me as the right winner for this craptatic season.

[ProfCrash]

6 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

It was Dean.

I wish Noura won, tbh.

Me too. She was the winner this season deserved. She won immunity and did a lot around camp but couldn’t hide her lack of understanding the game.

[JudyObscure]

I became a Never-Deaner when he seemed to have trouble understanding the concept of a line you might not cross.  Clearly he would have outdone the Elizabeth/Missy lies if he had the energy to think of it. I thought back  to all the times he double crossed and lied to people without hesitation and without even seeming to know anyone might be angry at him for it. Then he seemed to excuse all that by saying he always kept an optimistic attitude.  Sort of like saying, "I'm a sociopath and don't care a bit  about other people,  but I'm also a narcissist and always want the best for myself!" 

Also people who pronounce jewelry, "jew-la-ry" shouldn't get to have any.

There should be a few rules in the game that you can depend on, like when you're voted out you don't show up at camp the next morning, and when you play an idol it nullifies all votes against you.   An idol that nullifies the nullifying  is just wrong and Big Brother level stupid twisty.  I hate it.

Tommy telling Dean about the clues to the last idol was just maddening.  He said he couldn't tell pink from orange and he didn't need to because the coconut lining was pink and the board in the walk was orange.  I almost wouldn't have voted for Tommy for that reason alone. 

 

[plurie]

Dean talked himself out of the win. I don't believe he HAS any moral "lines" that he wouldn't cross in the game, so he really had no idea how to answer this question. But he should have come up with a better lie. He was immediately called out by the multiple jurors he had promised a final two alliance to. This is what lost him the game.

Noura also talked herself out of a possible win, but, honestly, what else could we have expected. She wasn't suddenly going to become rational and concise in her arguments. Nor was she NOT going to annoy the jurors.

Tommy was the only one who gave a somewhat coherent response without outright lying or alienating the jury. I don't particularly like him, but he played a decent under the radar, but nice to everyone, game and won on jury management and he totally played Noura (which further endeared him to the jury), getting her to believe he couldn't make fire and thus taking him to the final while keeping his hands clean on the Lauren boot.

[Haleth]

Thank God our long national nightmare is over.  Well, this one anyway.  I didn't care for the final 3 (or the final 5 for that matter, or most of the entire cast), but it surprised me that Tommy's "nice guy" image with the jury overrode Dean's strategy in the last few episodes.  I thought for sure he'd won when he started listing all the "toys" he'd won or found, plus winning a bunch of immunities when it counted most.  I guess the boundaries question tripped him up, which is hilarious to me given that some of the women exploited an assault to further their game.  I don't like Dean but his betrayals were nothing egregious.  Hopefully next season will take the bad taste away from this one.

[laurakaye]

I turned this off after the sequence of what I can only describe as "manic" idol hunting.

To me it was the most weirdly random series of clues and events I can ever think of on this show - the buff has a machete on it?  So look for a machete - in a coconut, which when broken apart is pink but the color-blind guy isn't sure about that, so - oh wait, here's an orange board?  With an "H" on it, I guess?  Which represents a swing?  I mean, it was like watching the gang from Scooby Doo solve a crime using Mad Libs.  It made me very tired and angry, so I went to sleep.

THEN I expected to wake up and watch the rest of this horrible season on CBS All Access, which is why I pay for it.  Episode 13 wasn't even listed.  But the reunion was.  Which also makes no sense.  So I watched the reunion and decided that I don't really care to see how it all went down.

Good heavens, bring on Season 40, please.

Edited December 19, 2019 by laurakaye

[cooksdelight]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Dean having 18 advantages at 5 is microcosm of what is wrong with Survivor.

I’ve been saying for a long time they should get rid of idols, advantages, notes, etc.

Only, don’t tell the castaways. Let them think there are idols hidden somewhere. Then we can sit back and laugh as we watch them all scouring the bushes. That might pump some juice back into this show. Otherwise, I may not watch anymore.

[Julia67]

4 hours ago, simplyme said:

The author does go on to give Tommy his due. The problem is not with any individual winner but rather the overall trend (which imo has been either caused or influenced by changes to the show. More HIIs, the fire-making challenge, even going back to the change from primarily an F2 to an F3 seems to have had an effect.)

Oh good grief.  So how do you propose "fixing" this??  And wouldn't it be just as sexist to make this same statement if there had been 11/14 female winners???  I'm sorry but a quote from EW doesn't make ANYTHING "significant".

[peachmangosteen]

18 posts. Wow lol. 

What a shitty season with a boring winner who did next to nothing and a F3 where a woman who did the same amount if not more than the 2 men is shit on and shut out of the vote. Classic.

The show is just going down the tubes and I wish I could let it go.

[Special K]

18 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

The show is just going down the tubes and I wish I could let it go.

Survivor, I wish I knew how to quit you.  😂

[SuburbanHangSuite]

10 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

 

I was so glad to see Lauren go. What an entitled brat, sobbing about how Noura said she was her #1 but didn’t choose her. Please...was Noura ever your #1? No? Then take a seat.

 

1000x this.  I haven't been able to stomach her for weeks now.  So I was savoring her little tantrum about having to make fire.  Noura draaaagggging out the suspense and savoring her moment in power was deliciously mean.

He was a tool but I found myself pulling for Dean at the very end up against those other 2.  Oh well.

And Noura having that weird, giddy crush on Dean seemingly out of nowhere?  SO much cringe.

[Porkchop]

The Idol Nullifier is a mean trick. For years, finding an idol was a blessing ... now that is iffy. Just knowing Dean had the nullifier has ruined the recent episodes for me. I really hope the next season is wonderful, because I think my enthusiasm for Survivor is waning.

 

[watchingtvaddict]

4 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

And Noura having that weird, giddy crush on Dean seemingly out of nowhere?  SO much cringe.

All of a sudden Noura needed to get laid. At that moment, it became clear Noyra would take two men to the final. It’s amazing she didn’t get any votes with 3 immunity challenge wins. She must have been extremely unlikeable at camp. 

[AZChristian]

Maybe they should issue each contestant identical setups of clothing, etc. They could all have a bathing suit, a couple of t-shirts, a pair of sweatpants, and a blanket. 

[Fallacy]

2 hours ago, Julia67 said:

Oh good grief.  So how do you propose "fixing" this??  And wouldn't it be just as sexist to make this same statement if there had been 11/14 female winners???  I'm sorry but a quote from EW doesn't make ANYTHING "significant".

You can’t deny the facts. Men are getting way, way, way more votes to win than women. And yes if 11 out of 14 winners were women, I would also question that gender disparity. 

I think future Survivor juries need to consider if their perceptions of the final three have anything to do with their existing ideas and beliefs about gender. Just a little critical thinking about why they believe what they believe would help.

[treeofdreams]

Highlight of the final tribal council:

Noura babbling on and the entire jury starts yelling at her to stop talking.

I wonder how long they had that bottled up.

[sara416]

I knew I wanted Janet to win, but I didn't realize how much until she was voted out. 

If I were on the jury I would have voted for Noura, just out of spite and to annoy the boys. 

[tvgoddess]

18 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

Is there anyone more slimy than Dean?

I didn't really have as much of a problem with Dean as everyone else did, UNTIL the last couple of episodes, and especially the finale. The smugness came off him in waves. And that DK Chillin' stuff was embarrassing and cringeworthy. The bling at Final 5, and him constantly referring to himself as so great was beyond annoying.

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

At the end of the day Sandra and Rob contributed fuck all to the game. 

They contributed an enjoyment for me of their general snark/observations and a cleansing factor of all the grossness and disgusting ick residue left from Dan.

[Josh371982]

12 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I’m so glad that my office’s Christmas dinner was tonight so I could record the show and fast forward through most of it. What a crappy end to an exhausting season.  Out of the final 3, I think Tommy deserved to win the least. Like, what did he actually do?! It’s bull that Noura didn’t get a single vote when she actually, in my opinion, played a better game and won more challenges than Tommy. But I’m going to chalk that up to her personality just being too....Noura. 

I was so glad to see Lauren go. What an entitled brat, sobbing about how Noura said she was her #1 but didn’t choose her. Please...was Noura ever your #1? No? Then take a seat.

I’m just glad it’s over. This season has been emotionally draining and, while I genuinely appreciate all the intelligent, mature discussions we’ve had here, I really hope next season returns us to our usual light-hearted snark.

 

A better game is pissing everyone off? And there is more to the game than Challenge wins. Everyone thought like a moron that Tommy was with them. He outwitted them all. 

[Rachel RSL]

19 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

Highlight of the final tribal council:

Noura babbling on and the entire jury starts yelling at her to stop talking.

That part infuriated me and caused me to hit the fast forward button again.  I didn't find it amusing at all.  If they don't like her or find her annoying, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that she outplayed all of their asses so maybe don't be such bitter assholes.

 

3 hours ago, Julia67 said:

Oh good grief.  So how do you propose "fixing" this??  And wouldn't it be just as sexist to make this same statement if there had been 11/14 female winners???  I'm sorry but a quote from EW doesn't make ANYTHING "significant".

The numbers don't lie.  The bottom line is that we, as viewers, have seen this scenario over and over: When there are men and women in the final 3, and the woman has made just as many good game moves as the men, almost all the votes go to the men and the woman's game play is completely discounted.  The men are almost always seen as ones who played the game whereas the woman just road coattails to get there.  There isn't an easy way to fix this but a good start would be people acknowledging that there is an underlying bias in favour of the male players and trying to be aware of that when they're deciding who deserves to win.

7 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

A better game is pissing everyone off? And there is more to the game than Challenge wins. Everyone thought like a moron that Tommy was with them. He outwitted them all. 

I believe I very clearly said that the reason she lost was her personality.

[Josh371982]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:04 PM, truthaboutluv said:

All of this so much. And I think what bugged me the most about Tommy's winning, is that he like Lauren had that smug entitlement about him. So to see him actually win, was just ugh. 

Funny I saw more smug entitlement from Dean then Tommy. Arrogantly saying he had this. His constant smirking with his punchable Douchebag face. Dean lost cause of stupid moves like not voting Tommy and voting out Karishma. Noura lost being herself and bonehead decisions like not putting Tommy against Lauren for the fire making challenge. 

[ladymon]

Anyone else wonder if Noura was going to show up at Final Tribal Council and be completely calm and logical and explain that her strategy was to be the goat everyone wanted to bring to FTC?  Then point to her physical prowess at challenges, her complete ZEN-LIKE win on that final challenge and her contributions to helping with the necessities of survival?  

[watch2much]

if someone is on an island with lots of down time for 39 days, and know there's a possibility that the ability to build a fire might seal their fate--wouldn't you think they'd spend some of that time learning to build a fire?

[truthaboutluv]

25 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

Funny I saw more smug entitlement from Dean then Tommy. Arrogantly saying he had this. His constant smirking with his punchable Douchebag face. Dean lost cause of stupid moves like not voting Tommy and voting out Karishma. Noura lost being herself and bonehead decisions like not putting Tommy against Lauren for the fire making challenge. 

In no way do I think Dean played an amazing game and I blame Kellee and her dumb play for helping him get as far as he did. And I was the one mocking Dean's calling others Goats earlier in the season when he seemed a massive one to me. So just so it's clear, in no way was I, "Dean, the amazing Survivor player". 

That said, while Dean had his own toolish ways with his never ending flexing, he just made me roll my eyes versus Tommy who just incited a visceral dislike from me. YMMV of course, but for me, it was something about Tommy's tone, the way he spoke about how he was controlling votes even when he actually WASN'T, hell just his face, etc. that just turned me off from about mid-season.

There was just something inherently annoying and unlikeable about him, for me. And I'm sure he may be a perfectly nice guy in his everyday life. But on this show, I wanted anyone in that Final 3 to win but him. Yes Noura was annoying and nutty but her annoying didn't bug me. Yes, Dean spent a lot of time flexing and flipping his hair, but it still didn't make me actively root against him. Of course to be fair, mid-season I never expected Noura or Dean to make it that far.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, it would help if they provided them with adequate clothes/coverings so they don't have to huddle together at night just to not get hypothermia, which can result in not only misunderstanding of actions/intentions but also a cover (no pun intended) for unwanted touching. 

The producers still have a juvenile obsession with having the players wear as little clothing as possible, especially the women. They may have given up on the mud wrestling challenges but they are still invested in making the show "titillating." 

[meep.meep]

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Also people who pronounce jewelry, "jew-la-ry" shouldn't get to have any.

?

I think people who pronounce it "jury" are much much worse.

So what happened to all the swimming challenges, that Janet would have aced?  Almost all challenges this season were of the run, dig, balance, make a ladder, climb up, then puzzle.

Worst final 3 ever!  Weren't all 3 of them goats?

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The producers still have a juvenile obsession with having the players wear as little clothing as possible, especially the women. They may have given up on the mud wrestling challenges but they are still invested in making the show "titillating." 

They could at least give them bathing suits.  That would provide the same level of sex appeal with a much lower sleaze level.    I think eye candy wrapped in relatively clean swim suits is more appealing than in dirty underwear.  

[iMonrey]

I was initially inclined to give the final TC a side eye because it seemed somewhat scripted in terms of format. Jack, the very first juror, stood up and told the finalists the jury really hadn't decided on a winner and asked them all to be clear etc., which is exactly the same thing that happened last season with the very first juror. And then neither ever asked a question. That said, there was a good amount of interaction that followed between the jurors and the finalists, so that was fun. None of the finalists came across very well.

I'm still pissed off about this final four fire making thing. They introduced that "twist" a few seasons ago to save a perceived fan favorite from getting voted out at F4, and tried to sell it as an "advantage." (Someone with a better memory can specify which season this was, but far from being an "advantage" to the F4 Immunity winner, it was a disadvantage because it prevented her from voting out the person she knew would beat her.) The show has been obliged to retain this stupid gimmick ever since just to legitimize what was obviously producer interference in the game in favor of one contestant.

Quote

The numbers don't lie.  The bottom line is that we, as viewers, have seen this scenario over and over: When there are men and women in the final 3, and the woman has made just as many good game moves as the men, almost all the votes go to the men and the woman's game play is completely discounted.  The men are almost always seen as ones who played the game whereas the woman just road coattails to get there.  

Ironically Noura was in the best position to make a case for herself versus the two men on either side of her in terms of game, but she is just so incoherent and manic she's incapable of threading together a simple argument without going off on a million tangents and ending up saying nothing that makes any sense.

[Ellee]

42 minutes ago, albinerhawk said:

I don't know if this applies to other seasons, but it seems like the women were too good in this season to be kept around.

Which begs the age-old question - why didn’t the women unite and target the men?  They had the numbers, didn’t they?  

Brigaded them.  

[Trigger]

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The producers still have a juvenile obsession with having the players wear as little clothing as possible, especially the women. They may have given up on the mud wrestling challenges but they are still invested in making the show "titillating." 

Survivors on the early seasons had plenty of clothing - long pants, long-sleeved shirts, hoodies, heck they were even provided raincoats on the inaugural season.  I don't really recall when Production began dictating their outfits and limiting them to underwear and swimwear, but I don't think it's done anything for the game.  I'd rather they be able to wear practical clothing and cover up when appropriate.

[RoxiP]

16 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Which begs the age-old question - why didn’t the women unite and target the men?  They had the numbers, didn’t they?  

Brigaded them.  

Honestly I think Noura had gotten on their very last nerves throughout the game so they didn't want to vote for her.

[sara416]

6 minutes ago, Trigger said:

Survivors on the early seasons had plenty of clothing - long pants, long-sleeved shirts, hoodies, heck they were even provided raincoats on the inaugural season.  I don't really recall when Production began dictating their outfits and limiting them to underwear and swimwear, but I don't think it's done anything for the game.  I'd rather they be able to wear practical clothing and cover up when appropriate.

I have a vague memory of the China season being the season where they all showed up for what they were told was going to be a photo shoot and then whicksed off immediately to the game, so all they had was what was on their person, even if it was inappropriate. I don't know when they started pre-selecting the colors though. I just found all of the old seasons on Hulu so I am going through a rewatch and there are so many things that are better in those first few seasons, clothing being one of them. 

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, sara416 said:

I have a vague memory of the China season being the season where they all showed up for what they were told was going to be a photo shoot and then whicksed off immediately to the game, so all they had was what was on their person, even if it was inappropriate. I don't know when they started pre-selecting the colors though. I just found all of the old seasons on Hulu so I am going through a rewatch and there are so many things that are better in those first few seasons, clothing being one of them. 

Since I just started my binge watch, this was actually season 7, Pearl Islands (though I haven't seen the China season so maybe it was done here too). The only thing they allowed them to take were the proper footwear.