S02.E04: She Knows

[Haleth]

5 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

The gun is in the season 1 credits too. A gun that never showed up.

The gun was Jane's.  She kept it under her pillow and at one point fantasized about shooting her rapist.  That's where the flash in the opening credits comes from.  Maybe it will show up again.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Haleth

[jeansheridan]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Of course, I could also see Mary Louise paying the bartender to roofie her.

I know this show is soapy but this would be too much for me. I am okay with Mary Louise being a passive aggressive evil. The kind of woman who does serious damage because she means well. I think her take on Jane's rape is bizarre and wrong headed but not out of the realm of a woman who just can't believe her son is a creep.

I also like Bonnie's mom's stroke because that is a totally realistic healthcare scare for a woman of her age. That sort of extra tension, Bonnie jumping to the wrong conclusion when the cop was at the hospital, Bonnie trying to smooth things over with Ed at the party and show the kids that there is no trouble here, just grown ups being silly, those are the details I love. 

I really want Jane's fellow to just be ordinary. I loved Renata's reaction of delight when she saw him and her joke to Bonnie that she can't be cool. Laura Dern was so on in this ep. Same director and writer too. Maybe she prefers doing crowd scenes? 

[lala2]

I am 100% Team Ed. While I agree that he will eventually have to decide if he wants to salvage his marriage or not, I don't think he needs to do that now. From what I can tell, not much time has passed since he learned of Madeline's infidelity. It's been what ..... a couple of weeks?! Maybe a month? It hasn't been several months or years. This wound is still fresh for him. I think it's crazy for Madeline to expect him to know exactly what he wants to do in 2-3 weeks from learning she cheated on him. Ed has a right to take some time and figure things out, and Madeline has to give him that time. She has to allow him space to be distant or snarky. To me, her line to him would have made more sense if 6-7 months had passed. I honestly think it's been about 2 weeks. 

I also think her need for him to get over this within a couple of weeks or so speaks volumes about her true feelings for him. Why isn't she fighting for him by giving him the time he needs? You broke the trust in your marriage, but since your husband didn't immediately forgive you, you want him to just divorce you?!? Do you care about this man at all? I believe if Nathan had come back to her, she would have tried to make it work because she loved him deeply. Again, if several months had passed, I would understand Madeline, but it hasn't been that long. I just don't think Madeline feels any deep love for Ed. Trust me, I understand she, alone, can't save their marriage and Ed has to be a willing participant, but expecting your spouse to get over your infidelity in a few weeks is ridiculous. 

As someone else pointed out, Ed told Maddy last year that he knew he wasn't "the one" for her, and I think the cheating just confirmed it for him. I've never felt Maddy truly loved Ed. I think Ed is trying to figure out what he wants to do. In all honesty, they should be living apart for now. That would probably be best.

Ed is a good guy, IMO, and deserves to be with someone who truly loves him. I hope he gets that at the end of the series. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Mary Louise bum-rushed a kids' pumpkin-carving party. No shame.

Seems like Amabella's birthday party was more for the adults than the kids. Their costumes were great though. Was Renata's husband supposed to be channeling Saturday Night Fever or Miami Vice?

Bonnie's mother is creepy, IMO. Was she going to do some voodoo stuff on Bonnie right in the middle of the party?

Remind me again why ML has her own key to Celeste's house? That was trouble waiting to happen.

Quote

Celeste told Maddie she took an Ambien

I don't get why would she have done that if she was spending the night sexing up some guy. I think she lied to try to cover for what actually happened but telling ML she voluntarily took a drug was exactly the wrong thing to do.

Quote

Renata : "I'm self-made."

Parthenogenesis, lol? Renata is a trip.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[LibertarianSlut]

6 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Re: the Ambien - I think the idea is that Celeste invited the bartender home, and had sex with him, and then took Ambien when she couldn't sleep (and then when she woke up, she was in such a daze that she forgot about the bartender).

I could see someone finding it especially difficult to fall asleep when they have a stranger in their bed. 

This discription of Ambien use is the one that rings true with me as a longtime (prescribed) Ambien user.  I can't personally relate to eating or driving while on it (though I have read the reports and believe them), this description above is the one that resonates with me.  Most people--well, I'll just speak for myself--carry their prescription meds around in their purse, just in case their plans change at the last minute and they need to sleep somewhere else.  Then, even if you've been drinking, if you can't fall asleep, you take your Ambien, and--boom--this happens.  

As far as the bankruptcy trustee taking Renata's jewelry, that absolutely happens IRL.  I am sure they would confiscate a vehicle too, as long as the petitioner has a ride home.  What Renata and Gordon are doing are throwing themselves upon the mercy of the court, because they can not pay their bills.  That means they have to list every single one of their assets in the petition.  Many people are too arrogant to bother to list their assets--they think they are entitled to this or that--and they go to federal prison (think Abby Lee Miller, Teresa Guidice).  I mean, if you think about it, it's really fucked up to omit something from your bankruptcy petition.  Depending on what chapter they're filing, Renata and Gordon want their debt wiped out or "reorganized."  That means that people--like blue-collar contractors and doctors that rendered them service--don't get paid.  That's not a little deal, that's a big deal to me. You did marry poorly, Renata, because you married a dishonest man, and for that reason, you must hand over your jewelry and explain the nature of your "medical" (let's just make that cosmetic) treatments, so that the little people can get paid.  So sad, too bad, Renata.

 If Renata is humiliated, she should take it up with her husband (whom I think she should divorce; it's the only way to ensure his desire to have a Gulfstream doesn't fuck with her money), but that bankruptcy trustee wasn't being an asshole, he was doing his job IMO.

[jeansheridan]

12 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

If Renata is humiliated, she should take it up with her husband (whom I think she should divorce; it's the only way to ensure his desire to have a Gulfstream doesn't fuck with her money), but that bankruptcy trustee wasn't being an asshole, he was doing his job IMO.

I don't disagree that it's her husband's fault but the fact that she got her rings back in the end means that the trustee was making a point and he wasn't gentle about it. The other stuff didn't bother me. Just admit to the Botox. No shame there. They don't need a Tesla or a Rolex (although if it had been a family heirloom...) But he made her surrender her rings because she was too arrogant in my opinion. He took her down a notch. He didn't appreciate her self made comment. 

The scene is great. The dynamics of this public servant coming in on a Saturday so they can have privacy (gross privilege) and her husband's resigned listing of assets and her emotion barely in check...Laura Dern should have this on her Emmy reel. Compared to how shallow she played the scene with the ER doctor last week...night & day.

[LuvMyShows]

23 hours ago, debbie311 said:

One thing that I learned last night was when Mary Louise's lawyer told her to call every good family law attorney in the Bay Area, Peninsula and Monterey.  Because once she contacted them, presumably with the objective of possibly hiring them, they could not represent Celeste.  Wow!  I wonder if that is something that is done all the time?

22 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Will ML be required to keep paying these "best lawyers in the area" to prevent them from getting hired by Celeste? That would get expensive. 

I got curious about this, and did some Internet 'research'.  It appears that it would need to be more than just contact them superficially, which is how it was portrayed in the show.  It looks like she would have needed to meet/consult with a lawyer and pay for it, to move into the conflict of interest territory.  And apparently, Heidi Klum actually did this in her divorce!  But it doesn't look like Mary Louise would need to be paying for the lawyers in an ongoing manner...just the one consult would do it.

On 6/30/2019 at 10:14 PM, peggy06 said:

Maybe just a nitpick, but that scene where Chloe shows Madeline her project: That is just so over the top, even for a kid who's supposed to be old for her years. Unhinged, really?

Yeah, it really takes me out of a show when something so unrealistic is done.  It's like the comics (Dennis the Menace and Family Circus come to mind) where the kid says something that is like a pun or an unintended/embarrassing-to-the-parents funny, but there is no way that a kid at that age even knows that word.

On 6/30/2019 at 10:25 PM, CatWarmer said:

I wonder why if the bankruptcy court judge questioned the payment for Botox, he had no questions about the expenses for the disco party.  I can’t imagine anyone in town would not make them pay upfront.

I doubt that everyone in town knows about Gordon's situation, but there would still be hefty deposits for the services for the party (especially to hire the Trammps), and there would have been a lot of them.  No way the judge wouldn't have seen and asked about them, and then lost his sh*t when he found out that people with impending bankruptcy are spending that kind of money on a party for their kid!

On 7/1/2019 at 12:50 AM, tennisgurl said:

No wonder Celeste slapped the glasses right off of her judgmental face! 

No offense, but we accept/support things on TV, that we would never accept in real life.  If we said something that was judgmental, I don't think any of us would accept being slapped as an OK response.  All of us act terribly at times, but I just can't imagine being fine with being on the receiving end of a slap for what someone else determines is a slap-worthy offense.

On 7/1/2019 at 5:03 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Renata has tended to be a one note character so I liked when she told Gordon that her anger was about what he had taken away from their daughter, all the opportunities that Renata wanted to give her that she hadn't had as a child. 

This did not ring true to me in terms of how just last week Celeste said so forcefully, "I will not not be rich!"  That wasn't about lovingly giving her child opportunities she never had...it was about money and status.  This feels a little like a retcon job.

On 7/1/2019 at 1:11 PM, sashayshante said:

Celeste is a mess. The other women are over looking her current emotional state, her recklessness,  her use of medications, AND the fact that she has hit both ML and her child because they dislike ML and because Perry was a monster. Home girl needs some time to work her shit out. Her kids are at risk.

While there is no way that a judge would take the children away permanently based on what we've seen so far, I absolutely believe that a judge might do something temporarily and require that Celeste meet some requirements for a set amount of time before letting her have them back.  I would actually support that, given that she truly is endangering the kids with the Ambien behavior, especially with driving being involved.

On 7/1/2019 at 8:23 AM, NeenerNeener said:

Really, Mary Louise should be wondering if she's at least partially responsible for how Perry turned out, not trying to take his kids away from their mother. I wonder if her marriage was as twisted as Celeste's.

But that would be too painful, so she does the exact opposite, because deep down she actually does know that it's true.  My ex-inlaws were like that when their son and I divorced regarding some of the things he did...turn it all against me (easy and feels good), rather than looking inward (hard and feels bad).

21 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And, as far as we know, Maddie still hasn't shared with him what she told Celeste so she still likely hasn't been straight with him....just vague "it's me" platitudes.

What did Maddie tell Celeste?

21 hours ago, scrb said:

On shows and various websites though, there's a lot of content about couples trying to reestablish trust, trying to keep things together, etc.

May not be a realistic depiction.

One of the only realistic depictions I've seen on TV was on Will and Grace, after Grace married Harry Connick Jr's character, and he cheated on her.  They tried to make it work afterward, but she couldn't trust him again, and knew they couldn't have a marriage like that, so they divorced.

[Irlandesa]

54 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

What did Maddie tell Celeste?

She told Celeste about catching her father cheating on her mother.

[shockermolar]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:53 PM, Blissfool said:

I am so removed from beauty enhancement procedures that I had no idea what Renata's gesture towards her forehead meant. Doh!

I didn't understand at first because of the outrageous cost of it. I assumed it was some kind of fertility thing like they had frozen embryos or something. I mean $4500? That's a crap ton of botox.

[teddysmom]

10 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

didn't understand at first because of the outrageous cost of it. I assumed it was some kind of fertility thing like they had frozen embryos or something. I mean $4500? That's a crap ton of botox.

I think my sister spent $3000. My BiL called me to tell me about it, he found the charge on their credit card.   I think she did it in the forehead. 

My father took Ambien and the stories I could tell you.  

Someone who works in Child Services posted on AV Club or Jezebel that there is no way in hell ML would get the kids.  Celeste hasn't endangered them at all, she is allowed to have men over, the boys weren't there, and everyone has car accidents.   Also hasn't ML admitted responsibility in the death of her son Raymond?  So how is that safer. 

[chenoa333]

22 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

No, I think that once she's had an initial consultation with any lawyers, they couldn't take on Celeste as a client due to "conflict of interest".

Thanks for clarifying that! I thought the lawyer meant that all ML had to do was CALL the attorneys to make it a conflict of interest!

And just a friendly warning to anyone thinking of using Ambien...be careful. The horror stories are true. If you plan on taking it make sure a friend is there to handcuff you to your bed for the night. Ambien should be taken off the market forever. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by chenoa333

[Umbelina]

I thought bankruptcy allowed you to keep your house, and at least one car for each adult?

I know there are different kinds of bankruptcy, but???

[Razzberry]

As a former small business owner who got bent over plenty by suddenly bankrupt customers I have zero sympathy for them.  Sometimes things happen beyond your control, like a natural disaster or hospitalization, that I can understand.  But in every case it involved living beyond their means and poor money management.  The little guys who extended them credit and can least afford the loss are at the bottom and will never see a dime.  Don't even get me started.. 

re: Maddy and Ed

I like Ed a lot, but I also like Maddy.  It seems to me in most relation ships there's one who loves the other more, the one who does the heavy lifting to hold them together.   After getting dumped by that goofy ratbag Nathan, Maddy's self-esteem had to be at an all-time low.  I mean, how bad is that?  Ed must have seemed like Prince Charming.  Now he's like comfortable shoes and she takes him for granted. I think she loves him, but maybe more like a brother at this point? I doubt she ever felt consuming passion for him, and never will. It sucks but I can't condemn her.

[peggy06]

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

   On 7/1/2019 at 4:03 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Renata has tended to be a one note character so I liked when she told Gordon that her anger was about what he had taken away from their daughter, all the opportunities that Renata wanted to give her that she hadn't had as a child. 

This did not ring true to me in terms of how just last week Celeste said so forcefully, "I will not not be rich!"  That wasn't about lovingly giving her child opportunities she never had...it was about money and status.  This feels a little like a retcon job.

I agree. Besides which, the things Amabella really needs don't require being rich: Maybe some stability in the home, maybe Mom dialing it back from 11 sometimes. You can have a birthday party without all those trappings. I like Renata as a character; any scene she's in is immediately more interesting to me than one without her. But the pity ploy regarding Amabella just wasn't working for me. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I want to know the actor who played the guy who Celeste slept with.

He reminded me of someone..... The first person that came to mind was Christopher Backus.

Edit:

Oh my god; IMDb confirms that it IS him.

Dammit!  I wish I had a job getting paid identifying Z-list actors.  I'm fucking amazing.  I know the guy from exactly -ONE- episode of "Will and Grace".  He's Mira Sorvino's much younger hot-ass husband.  From what she went through with Weinstein, her new life being married to this delicious man seems much deserved.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Jennabelle88]

As far as Bonnie's mother goes, I don't think she's having flashbacks. How can she have a flashback of her child drowning? Would not her child be... Gone? I think she's having visions, which is why she cupped Bonnie's face the way she did when they were dancing at Renata's party. That's the way her visions come about - physical contact (or how I perceive it anyway), the stress of which caused her stroke. Not that I'm saying BONNIE caused it! Shame on Dad for insinuating such! 

As far as Maddie and Ed go, I really like them both and can see both sides to the story. I just hope they find a way to salvage what's left of their marriage because I selfishly like them together. 

I read somewhere that Reese is the one who wanted Meryl on season 2, and because of Nicole's Emmy (nom or win?), Reese was making sure SHE got all the Emmy-worthy scenes with Emmy-winning Meryl. I don't see that though. I see Nicole as having the best interactions with Meryl. 

As Gordon and Renata were heading to their bankruptcy "hearing", it was their lawyer (or whatever man was with them) that advised them not to bring up the party. That's how it was never an issue. It was omitted. 

I don't see Bonnie and Ed getting together romantically, but I do see them growing closer. They both seem like loners and mesh really well together, which will not go over well with Maddie or Nathan. 

[sasha206]

On 6/30/2019 at 9:04 PM, stagmania said:

The biggest tell that these ladies are way off their games is that none of them saw what Mary Louise was obviously up to. I can’t believe they kept inviting her into their homes - I fully expected Maddie to slam the door in her face and was astonished when she let her in. 

First off, I was a little meh about last season, but I'm enjoying this season.  I feel like they all are providing Mary Louise access and not shutting her out b/c they need to do everything to act like they haven nothing to hide and her son's death was an accident.  Then there could also be the guilt factor.  

 

17 hours ago, shockermolar said:

I didn't understand at first because of the outrageous cost of it. I assumed it was some kind of fertility thing like they had frozen embryos or something. I mean $4500? That's a crap ton of botox.

Oh my Lord, yes.  I get botox 2x a year from my dentist.  (Yes dentist).  I don't get a lot -- between the brows, crow feet, and a little on my forehead and the cost for me is $300 per visit.  

[Inquisitionist]

After that protracted scene with the bankruptcy trustee, I kept waiting for a "raid" on that party, seizing the kids' gift bags.  I supposed many of the party services might have been paid for before Renata and Gordon declared bankruptcy, but geez, that party still had to involve a ton of avoidable expenditures that the bankruptcy trustee would NOT have OK'd. 

Not sure where to discuss characters more broadly, so I'll put this here.  I find the conception of Mary Louise to be odd.  I would have expected Perry's mother to be elegant, not frumpy -- more Miranda Priestly than Kate Gulden.                                                          

[jeansheridan]

50 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

find the conception of Mary Louise to be odd.  I would have expected Perry's mother to be elegant, not frumpy -- more Miranda Priestly than Kate Gulden.                                                 

I get your point given we know Perry had the money but Meryl nailed the Northern Californian grandma look. And I never knew if Perry had old money or if he was self made as well. He didn't have Renata's hustle and his name sounds like inherited wealth. Maybe the money is from Dad's side. 

Honestly Renata is the most over the top fancy in her outfits but Laura Dern is just naturally plain (Not ugly but not glamorous even in gowns, in my opinion.) Central California is pretty chill. I think that's why the end of the year fundraiser was fun for them all. A chance to wear gowns and feel fancy.

[sashayshante]

12 hours ago, Jennabelle88 said:

I read somewhere that Reese is the one who wanted Meryl on season 2, and because of Nicole's Emmy (nom or win?), Reese was making sure SHE got all the Emmy-worthy scenes with Emmy-winning Meryl. I don't see that though. I see Nicole as having the best interactions with Meryl.  

I hate to say it, but I could totally see this being true. Witherspoon gives off major Tracy Flick vibes, so I could see her wanting a second shot at out shining Kidman.  I've never bought Witherspoon's "I just want to produce great stories for women" act. Gone Girl, Wild, BLL, The Luckiest Girl Alive, Eleanor Olyphant, etc.  She keeps optioning books with the same messy layered thirty/forty-something lead protagonist so she can play the role and win awards.

[formerlyfreedom]

Talk about the show and the cast, please. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and criticizing the opinions of others violates the Be Civil rule. This will get you warned. Thank you.

[bybrandy]

I think Maddie feels that she is unworthy of Ed and sabotages it.  I think she's waiting for him to leave and does things to push that.  I'm not defending such self destructive behavior, but I don't think the problem is that she doesn't love him.  I think she loves him deeply and doesn't trust it.  

I think Celeste is just taking Ambien but I don't think I'd take it a second time after what happened the first time.  And still, the person who was at fault in this, is the bartender.  Who doesn't hide in the bedroom when he hears major awkward going down?   Not cool bartender, not cool at all.

If I was Jane I wouldn't let my kids in the car with Celeste lest she be having one of her Ambien episodes, but I also would be very, very, very wary that Mary Louise was coming after Ziggy next.   

Is it because of the ostentatious of the house and car?  I thought in bankruptcy you got to keep a house and a car.   

[msrachelj]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:30 AM, JoeyCrown said:

I've never watched Desperate Housewives or any similar trash found on network TV, but this show is starting to feel like that.

Also, I keep wondering if Ed, Bonnie or Celeste work and if so, what do they do?

I did watch DH, and this IS starting to feel like that!

20 hours ago, sashayshante said:

I hate to say it, but I could totally see this being true. Witherspoon gives off major Tracy Flick vibes, so I could see her wanting a second shot at out shining Kidman.  I've never bought Witherspoon's "I just want to produce great stories for women" act. Gone Girl, Wild, BLL, The Luckiest Girl Alive, Eleanor Olyphant, etc.  She keeps optioning books with the same messy layered thirty/forty-something lead protagonist so she can play the role and win awards.

I agree, IRL she is quite entitled, her daughter even had a coming out party? Who does that shit in 2019?!

[DrSpaceman]

I don't know how bankruptcy hearing usually go, but that seemed over the top. 

ALso I thought you were able to keep one car. 

The Sopranos did the same bit about Tony calling all the lawyers around town when he was going through his divorce.  Or near divorce.  I don't think they ever officially split up.

I treat patients with botox all the time, mostly for migraines.  If she is paying $4500+ for injections, she needs to find a new doctor.  Way overpriced.  That would be more than a year's worth. 

That ML is a bitch, hope she ends up dad by the end of the year.  I can actually see how her son turned into such a heartless and controlling asshole from dealing with her for so many years. 

Don't really care much for Jane's boyfriend.  Not getting much out of that story.  But then I have never been a big Shailene Woodley fan, she is the weak spot in the female cast, IMO. 

[Razzberry]

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

That ML is a bitch, hope she ends up dad by the end of the year.  I can actually see how her son turned into such a heartless and controlling asshole from dealing with her for so many years. 

Hmm.  Maybe, but I got the impression she thought Perry could do no wrong and spoiled him rotten.  I really wish they would delve into that can of worms.

[Crs97]

On 7/3/2019 at 12:35 AM, Jennabelle88 said:

I read somewhere that Reese is the one who wanted Meryl on season 2, and because of Nicole's Emmy (nom or win?), Reese was making sure SHE got all the Emmy-worthy scenes with Emmy-winning Meryl. I don't see that though. I see Nicole as having the best interactions with Meryl. 

That sounds like a typical “women can’t support each other; there always has to be a cat fight” piece of gossip that comes up every time women work together.

[gibasi]

Since Jane never knew the identity of her rapist there would not be anybody listed on Ziggy’s birth certificate as the father. So Mary Louise has no rights as a grandparent. And there has been no DNA test. Ziggy’s father is still unknown as far as the courts are concerned. I am not a lawyer or anything but that just seems like common sense  

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, gibasi said:

Since Jane never knew the identity of her rapist there would not be anybody listed on Ziggy’s birth certificate as the father. So Mary Louise has no rights as a grandparent. And there has been no DNA test. Ziggy’s father is still unknown as far as the courts are concerned. I am not a lawyer or anything but that just seems like common sense  

Well, technically, ML could do a blood test with her own DNA and Ziggy's, but none of this would work (custody of any of the 3 boys) unless their moms were in jail.  Even then?  Jane's parents would take temporary custody of Ziggy, not ML. 

If this whole thing really is about custody (not sure at all about that) then ML's only move is getting them all convicted of murder, with long jail terms, and that is very doubtful. 

[Chelz]

I laughed out loud when Maddie and Celeste were talking about Celeste not remembering that the bartender was still at the house when ML returned... Maddie said that ML should have called or texted first because who just barges in? As ML barges in to their conversation.

[scatteroflight]

On 7/1/2019 at 9:44 AM, angelamh66 said:

Not to nitpick,  but the person at the court that Renata met with is not a judge. It was the bankruptcy trustee. The trustee's job is to step in and take control over the bankruptcy estate (i.e. all of their assets) and preserve the assets for the benefit of the creditors. The trustee will make all decisions about settlements etc... for the duration of the bankruptcy.  The distinction might not have been meaningful in last night's episode,  but it could be going forward so I thought it was worth pointing out.  

AngelaMH66, are you in the US? I work for a trustee in Canada. I've been doing this work (on and off) for 10 years and I've never known a trustee to behave like Renata's and Gordon's did. For one thing, we never seize assets at the first meeting. We do an accounting of the assets clients have and then determine their realizable value, etc., but generally speaking, we give clients the chance to repurchase their assets from their estates. So, we'd never force someone to just hand over their wedding ring, for example. I'm not overly familiar with the US system, but this whole scene seemed OTT to me, and took me out of the story a bit. 

[Anela]

My parents had to declare bankruptcy. They didn't take the house or the car/van. 

[Razzberry]

On 7/4/2019 at 6:44 AM, msrachelj said:

I agree, IRL she is quite entitled, her daughter even had a coming out party? Who does that shit in 2019?!

I don't know, so I googled it.  Apparently this is a thing, like a debutante ball, put on by some guy in Paris for daughters of "notable families".  Other than Kyra Kennedy, the families are notable in the entertainment industry only.   Daughters of Sylvester Stallone, Larry David, Bruce Willis and Demi Moore, etc.

[skotnikov]

10 hours ago, gibasi said:

Since Jane never knew the identity of her rapist there would not be anybody listed on Ziggy’s birth certificate as the father. So Mary Louise has no rights as a grandparent. And there has been no DNA test. Ziggy’s father is still unknown as far as the courts are concerned. I am not a lawyer or anything but that just seems like common sense  

Common sense and an overhyped expensive soap don't go together well.

Anyway, I love how HBO's youtube channel savours all the "Emmy-worthy" moments of BLL. Like one can re-watch "The Slap" or "Renata and Gordon fight in the car". They really go OTT with the 2nd season. 

[sioux21]

On 7/1/2019 at 8:23 AM, zobot81 said:

The show is stressing me out so much that I simply would not watch if I found it both incredibly upsetting AND incredible (beyond belief).  My advice is genuine - stop watching if you think it's silly or ridiculous.  Why would you stick with it, if you are not also entertained?

I mean, right??

I realized last night that about 50% of the time I spend watching a S2 episode, it's with my jaw wide open.  Like, holy crap...whoa...no....wtfffuuu-....o.....my...........gawwwd!! When Celeste slapped Marie Louise I almost fell off the couch.  When Marie Louise came back with, "What do we call that?  Foreplay?" my eyes nearly jumped out of their sockets and ran away screaming.

She's too much.  ML is toooooo much for me.

I'm enjoying it too. I have realized I can't watch it right before bed though because I take on their stress and have trouble sleeping, like their problems are real to me. 

 

On 7/2/2019 at 2:48 PM, teddysmom said:

I think my sister spent $3000. My BiL called me to tell me about it, he found the charge on their credit card.   I think she did it in the forehead. 

There's no way. Botox on the forehead would cost her about $100. She lied about what she spent that $3000 on.

[TheGourmez]

8 hours ago, sioux21 said:

There's no way. Botox on the forehead would cost her about $100. She lied about what she spent that $3000 on.

I'm going to believe y'all, because I've never had it, but Northern California costs more than pretty much anywhere else in the US for pretty much anything. So if you guys aren't from out here...it's possible. Or maybe it's just a tech exec surcharge.

On 7/4/2019 at 9:43 AM, DrSpaceman said:

Don't really care much for Jane's boyfriend.  Not getting much out of that story.  But then I have never been a big Shailene Woodley fan, she is the weak spot in the female cast, IMO. 

The boyfriend storyline is the least interesting, for sure, but Shailene's honestly been a revelation for me in this role. I find her work here very understated and believable. It helps that the character seems very laidback Californian believable to me.

[Razzberry]

9 hours ago, TheGourmez said:

The boyfriend storyline is the least interesting, for sure, but Shailene's honestly been a revelation for me in this role. I find her work here very understated and believable. It helps that the character seems very laidback Californian believable to me.

Totally agree with this.  Jane could be my neighbor or friend, she's the most realistic and relatable character for me.  I think she's attractive and likeable in a natural non-Hollywood way and casting her was brilliant.  First time I've seen her.

[MamaMax]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:44 AM, msrachelj said:

I did watch DH, and this IS starting to feel like that!

I agree, IRL she is quite entitled, her daughter even had a coming out party? Who does that shit in 2019?!

True story: a friend of mine was an "honorary mom" to a young Debutante who needed her help because she has 2 dads.  Large city, down south.  Times are changing...and some traditions are hanging in there. 

On 7/7/2019 at 3:54 AM, TheGourmez said:

I'm going to believe y'all, because I've never had it, but Northern California costs more than pretty much anywhere else in the US for pretty much anything. So if you guys aren't from out here...it's possible. Or maybe it's just a tech exec surcharge.

The boyfriend storyline is the least interesting, for sure, but Shailene's honestly been a revelation for me in this role. I find her work here very understated and believable. It helps that the character seems very laidback Californian believable to me.

I doubt Botox costs $100 when you go to the plastic surgeons to the elite. Also, she may have more than Botox done (fillers, etc) but doesn't want people to think she "needs" a lot of work.

[lucindabelle]

On 6/30/2019 at 10:25 PM, CatWarmer said:

I wonder why if the bankruptcy court judge questioned the payment for Botox, he had no questions about the expenses for the disco party.  I can’t imagine anyone in town would not make them pay upfront.

Interesting question about who Corey is - Celeste certainly looked at him oddly.  If he is Perry’s half brother, he might have heard some dirt on Mary Louise from his father.

Did I hear right? $4200 for Botox? Because,,, that’s not what it costs, even in Monterey. Unless that was over the past... year?

[Crs97]

I think the bankruptcy trustee didn’t like her attitude and wanted to take her down a peg, which is why he forced her to admit the medical expense was Botox (frankly, I was surprised he didn’t make her say the word) and he took her wedding ring.

[CatWarmer]

Well, she pointed at her forehead so I suppose it could have been brain surgery.  (I have no concept what Botox costs.)

[deirdra]

She probably had Botox plus a bunch of fillers in the vertical creases between her brows and skin resurfacing treatments.

Edited July 10, 2019 by deirdra

[humbleopinion]

Laura Dern gave the universal sign for Botox injections.....

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Laura Dern gave the universal sign for Botox injections.....

I'm so glad I have these forums to help me fill in the blank spots, because I seriously had no clue what her gesticulating was supposed to mean in that scene!

[Nordly Beaumont]

I've had fillers and laser treatments (no botox... yet) so if someone asked me what's this charge and why wasn't it submitted to insurance, I'd just use my words and say it was cosmetic. But Renata couldn't bring herself to say it out loud, so she made the "universal sign for botox" -🙂 She summed up "it was cosmetic and not something to submit to insurance" with that gesture. The gesture didn't necessarily have to mean botox was the only charge.

[BetyBee]

I've been thinking about this puzzling and unsatisfying (to me) season and here is one more thing that has been bothering me.  I think we are supposed to take Madelyn at her word that she made a mistake and that she loves Ed and will be faithful going forward.  But she's always fantasizing about smarmy Joseph.  I don't think she even likes that guy, so why is she thinking about him all the time., when supposedly her biggest fear is losing her marriage to the man she "loves"?  If Ed really is just a meal ticket to her, then why should we care about Madelyn?  

[izabella]

5 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I've been thinking about this puzzling and unsatisfying (to me) season and here is one more thing that has been bothering me.  I think we are supposed to take Madelyn at her word that she made a mistake and that she loves Ed and will be faithful going forward.  But she's always fantasizing about smarmy Joseph.  I don't think she even likes that guy, so why is she thinking about him all the time., when supposedly her biggest fear is losing her marriage to the man she "loves"?  If Ed really is just a meal ticket to her, then why should we care about Madelyn?  

Is she fantasizing about Joseph, or is she thinking about her mistake?  I know when I make mistakes, I go over and over them in my mind, usually beating myself up for being such an idiot in the process.  Eventually, I have to let it go and either forgive myself or just move on, but not until after I've tortured myself with it for a while first.

[lucindabelle]

On 7/10/2019 at 7:34 PM, deirdra said:

She probably had Botox plus a bunch of fillers in the vertical creases between her brows and skin resurfacing treatments.

So yeah I’m 54 .. Botox would be at most $800 for that area. Nobody gets fillers in their forehead you’d look like Frankenstein but even if you did, $1500 tops. I live in NJ and have gone to park avenue doctors and overspent so it wouldn’t be MORE in Monterey.

maybe a brow lift? Even so... 

lasers could definitely add up. If she’d just pointed to her face, sure. 

A small thing but it threw me out of the scene.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 7/7/2019 at 2:54 AM, TheGourmez said:

The boyfriend storyline is the least interesting, for sure, but Shailene's honestly been a revelation for me in this role. I find her work here very understated and believable. It helps that the character seems very laidback Californian believable to me.

I'm joining in this apparent UO too.  Shailene is my favorite in this show, but then I've always liked her.  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/30/2019 at 10:14 PM, peggy06 said:

Maybe just a nitpick, but that scene where Chloe shows Madeline her project: That is just so over the top, even for a kid who's supposed to be old for her years. Unhinged, really?

I am so glad the kids are being used less this season, because Madeline's impossibly cool younger daughter has to be one of the most annoying kid characters on tv.

On 7/1/2019 at 11:07 PM, Melina22 said:

I didn't find this unbelievable at all. As much as none of them wanted her there, they just couldn't bring themselves to commit the unforgivable breach of etiquette required to slam the door in the face of an uninvited guest bearing gifts, especially when the guest was the grandmother of children who were present.

I think Mary Louise gets away with a lot because she looks like a sweet old granny lady. So even if she is saying horrible things your brain still processes it as grandma talking. And on top of that she baked a cake.

For a serious show they really do a lot lf good comedy. But it is kind of like the UK version of The Office where the shit that happens or that people say is so shocking all you can do is laugh. Speaking of which, I did laugh at how even though Jane is many economic levels lower than Madeline and Renata her and her son still had pretty kick ass 70's costumes. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Kel Varnsen

[Rahul]

This thought ran through my head during the first few minutes of this episode, far before ML served Celeste with petition for custody papers; the only way I will find this season even somewhat justified is if ML meets her untimely end in a very violent way--perhaps after being pushed down a flight of stairs. Good lord, that woman is heinous. She's not even a villain I love to hate--I just outright loathe her. Even her mousy mannerisms make me stabby.