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Umbelina

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  1. I'd like to rewrite or imagine better endings for most of them, not all. Peggy with Stan, a best friend guy who doesn't object to her working, and accepts her? Good ending, no idea if it will last, but it might. Ken eventually, after exacting enough revenge, retires early with a huge parachute, and continues writing, back in the country with wife and kiddos. Don gets his kids back, Sally will stay in school, but visit. He hires a hell of a nanny, who is in no way attractive to him, and without sacrificing his work obsessions completely, does raise his boys. BS on them staying with Henry or that odious brother in law. Trudy and Pete? PERFECT ending, I wouldn't change a thing. Roger and Marie stay together until one of them, probably Roger, dies. They globe trot and have fun. Ginsberg (aw damn I really want a happy ending for him, maybe his father fights for him, new drugs to help him are discovered, but most of those might mute his genius at creating. I just want him to have a happy life...but can't see how.) Joan makes a fortune in producing, is respected, never marries again, raises a great son, employs a lot of women, and enjoys occasional love affairs. Megan eventually marries a rich producer from France, she travels there and does art films, some of them eventually are respected work, but she enjoys living in France, and her husband, though he has girls on the side, is loving and well respected in the industry. As she gets older, she's rich, well cared for, accepted in the best circles, and probably uses a lot of pills. Harry is rich and powerful and finds a new wife, cheats all the time, which is expected by his new friends, the jerks at McCann. They respect him because of all his tales about banging new actresses. Paul gets a job in the industry eventually, after working his way up in menial jobs, Harry might even help out a little there after Paul gets his foot in the door. Maybe he eventually becomes and editor in TV work. Anyone else want to play?
  2. Could be. I wouldn't have taken a person who was broken down into a shadow of himself and told him something negative though. I honestly think getting away from that woman and the krishnas alone would give him a huge boost. He was never super talented, but he was easy to get along with "he could really close" and after what he's lived through, even a job as a waiter would have probably seemed like heaven. Lots of people never make it in Hollywood, Paul probably won't. Still he has sunshine, the beach and ocean, and enough to make a fresh start. I doubt he would consider any semi decent job beneath him, it's gotta be better than begging on the street. He'll fit in there, and I think he will be happy.
  3. It doesn't sound like it would go that far for someone without an income. At most that would have given him two or three months of rent, but no car, and he would have had to buy groceries, and a television. And bell-bottoms. Yeah, but the prices I gave were for pretty cool places. At that time, especially with a roommate, (pretty common there to see ads for a roommate) he could have gotten by long enough to find a job. He didn't have to have a place with a pool. 😉 LA is huge, there were many cheaper areas to rent. He did need clothes though, he probably stopped at a thrift store to pick up stuff for the trip, and in LA the thrift stores can be pretty amazing. I do agree that not having a car could be problematic, but again, back then? My first car was $100 and it was huge, but solid mechanically. Food was cheap too, especially if you like Mexican food. We used to pick a different little mom and pop place and order the special ($2, TONS of great food.) Honestly his shaved head (assuming he took of that weird ponytail) could have worked for him as well, or against him. Shaved head usually meant "just out of the service." Unfortunately it could also mean "just out of prison." In a month or two that wouldn't matter anyway.
  4. We did though. He, for one example, sold that Broadway with Namath show special to clean up Dow's image. There were others. He may not have come up with computers, but he saw their worth, when no one else at his company did. He kept his eye on the competition, and made them keep up. In other words, $500 in 1968 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3,683.82 in 2020, a difference of $3,183.82 over 52 years. The 1968 inflation rate was 4.19%. Also, I lived in LA in 1970, our house, 3 BR, nice area, big yard, was about $400 a month. Cool apts with pools and townhouse style 2 story were around $300. That money would have gone far. I didn't really see cartoonist exaggerations in any of them though, then again, I lived through those years. Ha. Midge going from mild druggie, free spirit to heroin addict? I know people JUST like her. People taken in by the Hari Krishnas? Knew them too. I loved all of Ken's stories as well, and believed in them. I was sad he didn't retire to write, and instead got even with people who were assholes to him (McCann, Pete, Roger.) However, that too is not uncommon, revenge is a huge motivator for people. Pete was all over the board, but I loved every minute of his journey, and bought it every step of the way. Although I still think he should have threatened his daddy-in-law with telling his WIFE about the prostitute, rather than just telling Trudy without saving that business? Not very Pete like, but he was floundering at that point, so...
  5. I still say that Joan was a feminist, and there are many ways to be a feminist. She didn't know it, but she was. Peggy, Bobbie, Rachel, and the most stereotypical, Faye are more easily defined as feminists. Megan thought she was, but her actions, completely dependent on a man's money after she married, kind of fuck that up for her. Anyway, back to all the Harry comments which I will address at once. I think Harry definitely had a defined roll on the show, and I think it was a very good one. @sistermagpie pointed out a lot of it in her post. I think I will just do a list from start to finish, I'm sure I will miss some. Harry was the "average guy." He wasn't as good looking, he was married, had a kid, was in a job that could disappear at any moment, and wasn't making much money. He tried and failed to pal around with others, but aside from crude jokes (such as the stuff about Megan after her song/dance) he was just there, never earned much respect. His shining moment was to realize that he better figure out a new job and fast. He did his research, realized that other companies had a dedicated Media Department, pitched it, had it approved, and starting with a one man operation built it up. Computers came in, he noticed, wanted more power, and pushed for that as well. Those things all helped the company, but his concern was helping HIMSELF to have a secure/respected position. (nothing wrong with that) Hollywood and California happened. He'd already cheated on his wife once, regretted it, but now all kinds of women were suddenly available to him. Why? Media. He might get them a gig in a commercial! In addition, he now had all kinds of powerful connections with the Hollywood elite. He could have any babe he wanted, or most of them. It was the sixties, sex, drugs, rock and roll, parties. He started eating salads without dressing and getting a tan. In the middle of all of this he does two very kind things. He saves Don's ass, in spite of Don hating his guts (which Harry didn't really know.) He thought it was unfair what they were doing to Don, and risked quite a bit to warn him. That resulted in Don saving himself, but without that head's up from Harry? Don was over. He also saved Paul. They had also been "friends" (Harry thought all the original guys were his friends.) He saw Paul drowning, and threw him a lifeline. So, Harry is not all bad, actually he has some very good qualities mixed in with the odious, sexist, oblivious qualities. In short, he is a "whole" human being, not perfect, not evil, a mix of qualities, like most of us. While others are unhappy with the move to McCann's, Harry is content. He is getting yet another promotion, will have the huge department he always wanted, more power, and now, he knows all the players on both coasts and can really shine. He's also surrounded now with a bunch of neanderthal men. He's found his tribe. Still, he tries to maintain his (to him) previous work-friends. He's rebuffed a bit, but who cares? He's finally in a place where he fits in and is appreciated, with more money, more power, and more respect. I don't think Harry was an add on at all, at least no more than others out of the core Peggy/Don, and sub core Roger/Joan/Pete group. The Harry character could actually easily be considered part of the sub-core group really. He did quite a bit on this show, moving the times along, and to me, he was a very well written character. EDITED TO ADD: Through Harry's character's actions we moved from the fifties in NY, to the new decade of computers, and also to California. Don, of course, also helped with the California POV to contrast with the NYC lifestyles. So, for story, his character was very useful in both introducing interesting new things, social commentary, and how advertising evolved as well.
  6. I think Joan was always a feminist. She wouldn't call herself that at certain points, but she always, within the rules and mores of the times, coped and supported herself, even though she still had the starry eyed dreams of a happy marriage to a perfect man (for her.) Still, Joan got herself a client and became an "account man" in spite of it all. As for Harry? He would have slept with a client ANYTIME to get ahead, but no one wanted him. Furthermore, he EXPECTED women to sleep with HIM to "get ahead. (Megan certainly wasn't the only one he tried that with.) So fuck him and his finger pointing and Joan. What I mean by Joan couldn't be a Peggy? With that figure, through no fault of her own, she would always be a bigger target for men to abuse. She couldn't and didn't blend into the wallpaper. Joan's advantage, which she used to good effect, was, in part, her looks. Peggy's was her sensibilities and skill at copy writing. Joan was a master at running things, and knowing how the sausage was made, and managing people and situations, from Don's secretary dying in the office, to getting everything read to start a new company. When Joan told Peggy to put a bag over her head and assess herself, I didn't take it as anything more than Joan trying to be helpful for those times. Would it be appropriate today? Oh hell no, but laws to protect women hadn't been passed when she said it, and I think she was honestly trying to help another woman learn and advance. Another feminist on the show was Bobbie Barrrett. She also gave Peggy good advice, from "call him Don" to "Don't try to be a man....being a woman is powerful stuff when done correctly." I learned the hard way that men used everything they had to get ahead, tools I, a woman, didn't and wouldn't ever have, from private clubs to filthy jokes to golf dates where I would never be welcome but business was done. I decided eventually that I would also use what I had, something the guys did not, whether it was being the mother-like listener, or being someone pleasant to look at, or arm candy at lunch. I could never be their buddy, but I could (along with doing outstanding work and outshining the men) use "being a woman" in the ways they used "being a man." Should Harry have been made partner? No. He was an ass, and not one of the partners liked him. Partners would prefer to have someone the can get along with. If Harry left? They could have hired another media person to more than adequately do what he did, without the stink of dealing with Harry.
  7. Yes. Harry was offered the partnership soon after, he tried to screw them out of more, they refused. He waited too long and lost out on the bonus money when they sold. Also, unlike Joan, NONE of the partners liked Harry. He was an asshole. They didn't want him as a partner because he was, and remained a jerk. There are many ways to be a feminist. I think Joan was, and she was ahead of her time. There was no hiding that body though, and as she says to Peggy in that elevator after that disgusting meeting at McCann's? She had to do it her way, she was not a "Peggy" and never would be, and indeed, couldn't be. She could be just as professional, just as smart, but men would react to her differently. I think she did a hell of a job earning respect from sexist assholes, and she did it for a long time. We still judge women so differently. Men can sleep with anyone and it's "Oh, good for them." A woman does it? "Gold-digger, slut, easy lay, etc." Joan made the sexism work for her whenever she could. Joan was good at a lot of things. She had been at SCDP, and it's subsequent names long enough that most of the men recognized more than her looks, indeed, knew how valuable she was. Thrown into a new, larger company? She basically had to try to start from "go" all over again, and try to cope with sexism and inequality in the work place, as most of us did in those days. ====== About her partnership and what she did to get there? I don't blame her at all. At the time she was an "office manager" and had she not decided to do that? She would have been fired with all the others when they sold the company to McCann. She had a child, she wasn't making much money, and she was getting older. She did the prudent thing. I once turned down $5000 in Vegas from some asshole, (probably $25K today) but would I have turned down a partnership which would earn me millions, AND position and power and safety and financial security for my child? I seriously doubt it. One night? Who cares? Where is the judgement for the asshole that insisted/blackmailed the company, OR for the execs in that company that decided to get Joan to accept it? Nah, once again, it's all on the woman. The more things change? The more they stay the same.
  8. That was a great character played by a great actor. I wish we had at least learned more about his concentration camp experience. I'm still not sure if his "father" simply adopted him as one of the orphans/victims OR if he was really his father. All around, I would have loved much more Ginsberg, before and after. I just watched the scene last night when he comes into Don's office with the "At last, something beautiful you can truly own" pitch for jaguar. There is no way that entire scene could have been played better, by either actor, it was perfection.
  9. Umbelina

    Alias

    You mean the polymer "sun" that had the map? Marshall actually TALKS about Rambaldi knowing how to make that way back when, so I was OK with it. They did that quite a bit to justify various Rambaldi things, talked about it.
  10. There were episodes about it on THE CROWN.
  11. She's not stupid. It's over, or will be VERY soon. Her plan to save it was derailed by Elizabeth. She WILL make her pay, and I seriously doubt that in Claudia's mind, that will be as simple as death for Elizabeth.
  12. I think Claudia will make it her life's goal to kill Elizabeth for ruining her plans to save the USSR. Perhaps she will kill her kids and Philip first, to watch Elizabeth suffer before her death.
  13. Not much. A Sally spinoff maybe? Possibly something to do with Peggy, or with Joan and her son. Honestly, the only thing that might me interesting to me is Pete and Trudy jet-setting around the world, with their precocious daughter. The eighties and nineties might be interesting.
  14. Yeah, and whatever clothing they managed to arrive in? Was quickly stolen, especially good boots. It reminded me of Philip's dad showing up with bloody boots. Some were taken and killed immediately, and it made me think Philip's dad was one of those guys, the ones that gunned down the prisoners in a field just a little ways from the prison barracks. The boots were bloody because he took them off someone he'd just killed. In that documentary, they have been given permission to dig up the mass graves in those killing fields to rebury them properly. I may have to go find it. What the men went through was horrific, but it pales to what the women endured. I wish we had a LOT more of Philip's backstory and a lot less of Elizabeth's.
  15. Maybe, but I think Weiner just wanted Don single so he could live out his sexual fantasies through his character of Don, and keep the handsome tall guy miserable too. More and more, as the show went on, I felt it was kind of a creepy traipse through Weiner's mind.
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