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Umbelina

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Everything posted by Umbelina

  1. Umbelina

    S02.E06: Vergangenheit

    I loved this episode! I'm so impressed by the acting of everyone on this show. Foy's emotional changes during this episode were simply perfection. Actually, everyone on screen really brought it. There is so much out there about Edward, and much of it is on Youtube. I watched one the other day that had pretty significant implications that Edward was maneuvered into abdicating by a horrified government well aware of his treason. I'm glad the show focused on this side of his relationship, rather than all the kinkier stuff that is out there about the two of them, but at least showed her bitchiness and closeness to the Nazi's. I grew up on the "great romance" bullshit being sold full force, so it's refreshing to see the two of them exposed in pop culture for what they really were. I remember even then, watching some special or other about them and the greatest love of the century spin on television, and taking an instant dislike to both of them, especially her. It shattered the romance stories for me to actually see them, and listen to them. I wonder if the publication of that report cause many waves in Great Britain at the time? Was it a bombshell? How long did it take for more things to come out? Did the tabloids explode with the (limited) revelations there? Off to that thread here to see if it's already been asked and answered! Sex is a powerful thing.
  2. Umbelina

    S02.E08: Dear Mrs. Kennedy

    I'm so torn about this episode. As many others have said, the portrayal of the Kennedy's was beyond problematic. Was Dexter doing a 'southie" accent there? Good God. Oh, and for the first time I can ever remember doing so, I'm going to really criticize the person in charge of hair. Jackie had fantastic hair, full, glossy, iconic (although it was interesting to read about her chemically straightening it earlier in this thread.) In public, her hair was always perfection, inspired many "Jackie" hair styles, probably as many as Princess Diana's did years later. If the actresses hair was that incapable of looking good, then bring out the wigs. That blowsy look was so not "Jackie," let alone at a formal dinner! I have no problem with no curtsy, the first lady of the USA should not publicly curtsy to a King or Queen of our former sovereigns. The idea that the Kennedy's wouldn't know the rest of the protocol, greetings and such, is horrendous writing though, and all for the enjoyable laughs from the courtiers side comments. I think the cost of those jokes was too high, and lessened the impact of what was for me, a very enjoyable episode. I could and did fan wank the rest away happily. The country bumpkins at court though was completely over the top and stupid. Moving past that, the awful casting, the horrific hair, the ridiculous bumbles at greetings? My fan wanking ran free and relatively unhindered through the "relationship" scenes with the Queen, Philip, and Jackie. Why? Because I was loving it all, and because Foy made me believe in the emotions of it all. Two of the most famous women in the world, both constantly in the public eye, both representatives of their countries was heady stuff to mine, and the avoided the "cat fight" tropes, and instead of diminishing either woman, in the end, that rivalry elevated both women in most ways. Caroline Siede of AV Club says it better. Also, I loved the episode because it was a ride, I was riveted from scene to scene, and delighted with the humor and the pathos of it all, and in the end, the strength shown by both women. I think there is evidence that Jacki gossiped at that dinner (can't remember where, but I saw it in a couple of places, including I believe, in the DVD extras.) Did she gossip because of Dr. Feelgood's meds? Honestly, being under the influence does seem the most likely reason to dis the Queen in public, so again, my fan wanking didn't need all that much wanking. As for the two scenes with the women, while I doubt anything of the sort happened, at least not that blatantly an openly, I could easily see both of them happening, so I could let it go as far as annoyances. It served the story, and "opening up" to perhaps the only other woman in the world that might understand, and would keep it to herself made a certain kind of sense to me. The Queen failing to reciprocate Jackie's openness during the apology tea was a wise choice as well, and her regretting that later was a powerful scene. I adored the Queen heading off to Ghana, and the dancing, and actually all of the African scenes. To me, it is completely logically possible for Jackie's great success in France, and everyone gushing over her, might have been enough to spur the Queen into a bit of daring herself. In spite of it's faults, I loved this episode though. I felt they captured believable emotions and mixed well with some historic events, and I was able to forgive the contrivances for what I felt, in the end, was touching. The person in charge of hair has a lot to answer for though. Oh, and the casting director can suck eggs as well. The writer of introduction scene traded jokes for sense. Pity all of those.
  3. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    10 Undeniable Facts About the Michael Jackson Sexual-Abuse Allegations The author, who spent more than a decade covering the scandal for V.F., shares the key revelations and insights that viewers of the new HBO documentary Leaving Neverland need to know. by Maureen Orth (The links to the previous articles she's written about MJ and various abuse, including Wade's and James' are below the article. Oh, and WOW.)
  4. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    They won't have to try very hard. If you type in "Leaving Neverland" on YouTube there are already hundreds of fan/family videos that come up "debunking" the documentary. As a matter of fact, clicking on any link with "leaving neverland" in the title? Will bring up almost exclusively videos "proving" that Reeds is a lying monster, and James and Wade are worse.
  5. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    I think minds are already made up, and would be even if 10 more people risked telling the truth about their sleepovers with MJ.
  6. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    https://mjandboys.wordpress.com/2018/09/02/why-michael-jacksons-victims-may-stay-silent/ Very good link on that page about why victims don't tell, and specifically why boys don't tell.
  7. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    I think he did tell the truth, but only in the song. He's already been attacked for that song by the MJ fanatical fans, well before Leaving Neverland came out. That baby bottle. Wasn't that story in Leaving Neverland as well, drinking out of baby bottles with MJ? I've read so much lately, I'm not sure where I heard that, the documentary, a deposition, or where... That video was extremely well done, and pairing the baby bottle with (to me) obvious semen imagery, especially combined with the rest of it? There is no doubt in my mind that, at the very least, whether Sean was personally abused or not? He knows the truth about MJ.
  8. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    https://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2016/06/03/480451184/all-songs-1-sean-lennons-surreal-ode-to-michael-jacksons-pet-chimp-bubbles It's a good article, I wanted to quote the entire thing. I can believe that Sean wasn't molested, among other things, he was very close to his dad and mother, who adored, protected, and doted on him, and there is no way that MJ could "groom" Ono or John with the usual tricks, fame, glamor, or buying them things. Sean would have told, and MJ was very careful in the selection of families/children to groom. Even if MJ wanted to, I think Sean would have been too big a risk for him to take. Also, I can't in any universe imagine John Lennon allowing Sean being left alone with MJ, let alone spending nights in his bed. He did seem to realize the creepiness even as a child, and he really captured it all well in this song, and in this video. Well done. ETA: Hmm, I just realized that Sean was 5 when John Lennon died, and that he didn't visit Neverland until much later. I need coffee. I know how protective John was about Sean, but I don't know much about Yoko as a mom. Found this article: https://mjandboys.wordpress.com/2016/05/11/michael-jackson-sean-lennon-1984-unknown/ Um, holy shit. He spent many nights at Neverland. I honestly do not think that would have happened in John Lennon was still alive. Wow. It's still very possible Sean wasn't molested though, it could go either way really. I can see motivations for MJ to not do it (the whole fatherless child thing, the power of Yoko) and I can see why Sean would keep it to himself if it did, even now. Damn. He didn't spend time at Neverland until he was a teenager, probably too old for MJ then.
  9. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    The thing is, your child can be molested by, for example, your husband who lives with all of you. It happens all the time. Also, there really are men out there like John Ray Jr., PhD, better known as his pseudonym for the novel Lolita, Humbert Humbert. There was case, very like the Lolita novel recently in the news. Man marries divorced or widowed woman who has an attractive child (attractive to them) or even more than one child. That man has specifically targeted a woman, "groomed" her in today's language, specifically so he has handy and ready made children to molest. The friendly guy from your church who is taking his boys camping and offers to take your son along as well, after all, they are the same age, or school mates, does that really raise any warning signals? After all, you've known him and his wife for years, he leads the choir, he coaches little league, are you really going to object to a boys camping trip? These guys hone their craft, much as MJ did, he had more toys in his toybox to make that happen, but this kind of thing is going on every single day with relative nobodies. They don't look threatening at all, you usually know them well, because they have made that happen and put themselves in the places where there is prey. It's almost never "stranger danger" at all, it's your neighbor who babysits for you, or the Priest who hears your confession, or maybe it's even closer to home than that. I've been thinking about what a parent can/could do here, you obviously can't keep your child in a bubble, and you don't want them to fear everyone either. I think that maybe, from a very early age, you just start talking about private parts and let them know that they will NEVER be in trouble with you, but that anyone else touching those should not be, so no matter what that person may say to them, they need to come to you and tell you right away. Ditto removing clothing, or touching them. Keep adjusting that training for age. ??? The other problem is, sometimes the parent will simply not believe it. It can't be her husband! It can't be his younger brother! It can't be the scout leader from church! It can't be grandpa! So before that step of talking with the children, I guess the real first step is educating the parents, that yes, it CAN be, and most importantly, you need to listen and believe at least enough to investigate it. There may be an explanation in some cases, maybe the child had an accident, and the neighbor helped him out of wet pants and into something else, or something like that. The child should not have to be the one to make a decision about whether something adults are doing is OK, that's your job. In that recent case, the divorced woman refused to believe her children (all of them were being molested) because "he loves me." They told her, she slapped them for lying. From training at school, the oldest one then told another adult at her school, and that's how it all finally stopped. The mother blamed the children completely. What I'm really hoping is that this special and especially the Oprah follow up, have educated a few more parents about how seductive pedophiles can be, not just to the child, but to the parent. If the take away from this is just all about MJ's actions and not the process, we will have lost a huge opportunity.
  10. Umbelina

    Small Talk: The Welcome Mat

    I'm so excited that this show is coming back! https://www.ecochallenge.com/ I loved it too, all the challenges, only real life challenges, and very little of the backstabbing. I wonder if they will air the episodes all at once, or just one per week? I hope we get a great thread going. Their FAQ thread https://www.ecochallenge.com/faq/ doesn't mention when it will start, only that it will air in September (at least as far as I can see it doesn't.) So cool! In Figi though, so I wonder if spoilers will be around? Probably, they always are.
  11. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Just so you know @CeeBeeGee, my post wasn't specifically directed at yours. For those interested in the Polanski rape? This is a must read recent interview with his victim, in the general Hollywood sexual thread. I do think both pedophilia and old dude being attracted to young girls has been around for a very long time, possibly forever, and one decade didn't make a damn's worth of difference in that. (off topic a bit) I think the two things that did influence sex with young girls were the discovery of the pill, and AIDS, one to make things simpler, and the other to either encourage finding a virgin or alternately, to keep it in their pants, or get or stay married, depending on the guy and culture. MJ wasn't special. His tactics weren't unique. He used the same basic ideas of all pedophiles who wanted an on going sexual relationship with children. He just had more money and fame to throw at it, and hide behind. Do I think his "childlike personae" was a deliberate part of his methods? Yes, I think it's highly likely it was. The whole "I just love children and being around them!" crap though? Your local scout master could be saying the same thing, and people send their kids on overnight camping trips with those men. So could the "funny uncle" or the local priest, or the concerned teacher willing to give private tutoring, or the guy who coaches sports, and just wants to take little Jimmy out to practice his catching.
  12. https://quillette.com/2018/01/31/nobodys-victim-interview-samantha-geimer/ This article is fascinating and since Roman Polanski's name keeps coming up, I thought I would post it here. It's by his rape victim, and it's so well done, also has a link to her blog.
  13. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    I think the draft was a big part of seeming or feeling "older." Friends our age were dying, or being maimed, other friends were still being horribly discriminated against, and women were quite literally, fighting their way into having rights, to their body, to jobs and education previously refused or heavily discouraged, to all of it, and certainly to 18 year olds being allowed to vote as well. The issues were mature, and real, and most of us hadn't had helicopter parenting, grew up not even being allowed in the room during adult conversations, so we had our own. Sex was a small part of that, not the focus of it. Exactly! It bothers me that equating a time with all kinds of social revolution, and sexual revolution could possibly, in any way, have either encouraged, empowered, or condoned MJ's pedophilia. It had nothing whatsoever to do with it. More permissive or open sex never meant sex with children, especially prepubescent children. When I was 16 I had a crush on a guy who was 20, and I think, looking back, it was mutual. At the time I really didn't "get" why he pulled away from me, citing my age as the only reason. Now, if I could, I would thank and applaud him. Yes, and I'll add Oprah's special to that awakening. I think the documentary opened eyes in many ways, far beyond MJ and his behavior, and hopefully, it will do a great deal of good. Even some people who may not give a crap about MJ or even have HBO, but Oprah put her entire show on Youtube for free, and I think people will watch that. Eyes were opened, and hopefully that means more children will be protected, and more parents wary. Celebrity pedophilia may be easier, but honestly, the methods are the same, whether bishop or rock star. I wonder. At 17 or 18, and certainly by 19 perhaps, but most people would have raised eyebrows at anyone 16 and under marrying, even in "the olden days." I don't feel like researching, but marriages at 16 and still happen in many states now, I do wonder if the stats are all that different. There is just a vast difference for me between discussing children and those a few years past puberty. Both are creepy, but in significantly different ways.
  14. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    You know, at first I kind of wondered if BS had also been abused by the "industry" in that way, her statement that they had married, and enjoyed it, and were fine now? So, I googled. She denies any personal abuse, but her reasoning/words might give some clue, other than just "perhaps she was drunk when she said that." https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/21/barbra-streisand-like-mayim-bialik-says-her-nose-spared-her-from-sexual-harassment/ This is about "me too" but it's this part that sparked something, for me at least. and this: italics mine. Blaming the victims, or excusing predatory behavior seems to be a habit of hers, as is referencing looks. It feels way too much like resentment towards those born or altered into conventionally pretty. Perhaps that is her main issue with having any empathy for victims, certainly when she speaks off the cuff anyway. I always kind of admired her for not getting her nose "done" or blowing up her boobs with silicone. Props for that, but apparently, not being "a perfect 10" may still bother her.
  15. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    That Baby Soft perfume ad was effective though. A huge number of girls in my high school started wearing it, as did I. None of us thought, at the time, that there was anything weird about it, probably because we were about the age of the model, and didn't think of ourselves as children. When it came on The Americans so effectively, since the lead male spy was being ordered to seduce someone that age, it was extremely powerful on many levels, and one of those levels was "OH WOW, it looks completely different to me now, what the hell were they thinking?" I think for me at least, I wore it was because I really loved the smell. I still do like the "baby powder" smell, I have a perfume oil with that smell right now. (Also vanilla scents, but also Joy, and Ysatis, so...) Also, that scene with Carrie Fisher in Shampoo was from real life as I recall, possibly her life? I don't feel like googling, but it wasn't simply a Hollywood movie fantasy. There were, as I recall, significant objections about Brooke Shield's being used in the prostitution film Pretty Baby at twelve years old, people and the press did not just accept it as OK. I specifically remember articles about her mother being on set the entire time, and blah blah. How Brooke feels about it as an adult: Teens were rebelling against a lot of stuff, and some of it was very good stuff, a corrupt war, friends dying in Vietnam who couldn't even vote, political corruption, segregation and prejudice, and the standards of the older generation lost respect among quite of few of us. The sexual revolution was part of that, the pill brought freedom to woman (and yes, girls) that had never been available before. Marriage itself was examined, and "relationships" evolved, not all necessarily led to sunshine and roses, but frankly, closely examined, neither did those from the past. Women's rights were fought for, frankly, just as much as during suffrage. In huge part, part of those rights had to do, not only with jobs, but also with sexual rights. Did we teens think of themselves as "women?" In many cases yes. Was that exploited by some? Of course. Neither Taxi Driver, nor Pretty Baby bothered me at the time, and frankly, still don't. Sue Lyon was 14 in LOLITA from 1962 and that one? Did bother me, even though I didn't see it until years later, and had already secretly read the book at about 14. James Mason was in another kind of creepy film in 1969, Age of Consent with a nude Helen Mirren, then 22, a film which bothered me more, mostly because of the creepy ending, the rest of the film was not terrible, but the ending, to me anyway, made the whole film become pot bellied aging men's fantasy, and not in a good way. Sorry for veering a little bit, but all the talk of the big bad seventies at all excusing or explaining MJ's behavior simply doesn't add up for me. It was an interesting time, a revolutionary, perhaps naive, and certainly controversial time, and yes, that included reexamining sexuality and "norms." Was there more hedonism then than in the so called "good old days" of the Mad Men or other eras? Of course not. The real difference in that generation was that women stopped being simply the wife and mother, and that time had growing pains, and those certainly included some exploitation. More than before? I honestly don't think so, but women started talking about options, about orgasms, about choosing paths closed or restricted in previous generations, from employment, to sex, and beyond. Still, even the so-called wild seventies didn't condone or imply that 7 or 10 year old children were sexual fair game, the "standards" (such as they were) at least seemed to hold until a child hit puberty. That was NEVER OK, except among pedophiles, and frankly, pedophilia was around long before the seventies came around, or frankly, long before Columbus set sail.
  16. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    italics and bolds mine
  17. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    In the article she says she believed both then and now that MJ was molesting male children. Robson and Culkin testified, which is why she mentioned them in this article. She didn't even contest the sole custody ruling, she's never tried to see the kids. She made a business arrangement, and I'm sure she was very well paid, which is what she was after, the money. Certainly not the kids, and probably not even the rest of MJ's money, she took her cash, and split. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think motherhood, let alone being a wife was ever part of her plan.
  18. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Who knows, but she did NOT do her duty as a juror, and neither did the other one who caved into the majority. You are not there for consensus, you are there to follow the judges orders, to discuss, and to vote your conscience. If she was that firm about believing him guilty, she should have stuck to her guns with the other person. It would have been a hung jury and a retrial, and at retrial, Jackson may well have been convicted, since the prosecution knew where it's main weakness was. I don't think she was hurt. The "marriage" was only there so the kids could be legitimate and/or so MJ could have decent press. She was never going to be "their mother" except by birth. She sold them to him as soon as seemed decent, and I'd be astounded if that was not the plan all along. As for Barbra? She may have been tipsy when she said that first statement, hell, that may even be what she thinks, or what she's told herself for years about how she became a "star." Either way, the people who handle her, or perhaps her husband, made her clean up that disaster as soon as possible.
  19. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    https://variety.com/2019/film/news/barbra-streisand-michael-jackson-remarks-backlash-1203170857/
  20. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    I think it's also a matter of name recognition, and familiarity with the abusers.. Bill Cosby, and Michael Jackson were two of the most famous people in the world. Many people grew up watching MJ grow up, and grew up watching Cosby as a comic and then the great "everydad" that broke a significant race barrier on television. Weinstein? Super movie buffs knew who he was, the "industry" certainly knew who he was, and sure, most of us heard his name (if we were paying attention) during various Oscar acceptance speeches or nominations, but there is no way, outside of that relative handful of people, anyone KNEW him, or had any reason to feel they knew him. That group of men from the interview above? I still don't even know all their names, and I certainly didn't know who any of them are, let alone feel any connection to them. Hell, from the end of that video, a few are still working in Hollywood, and most were never even named, nobodies who knew this dude who rounded up attractive kids for an entire group of men, all for sexual gratification.
  21. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    What's most interesting about that Illuminati video, is the similarities between MJ's methods, and the trauma that hit these young boys mostly when they were older, and of course the drugs and the sex. What's different is the way the public handled it (hello! first I'm hearing of it! no protests, etc.) Also these guys were, at least in several cases, convicted, even though they didn't serve much, if any, time. MJ kept it between him and the children though, where these guys had an organized ring of men participating.
  22. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Holy crap to that first video. Odd, that even as a child I overheard stories about young female stars, but I don't remember anything about young boys and show biz, honestly until Michael. I think Judy Garland was one, by LB Mayer I think, and some of the "munchkins" in WoO as well. My mom and dad knew a lot of Hollywood people, so anything I heard was by eavesdropping on the grownups.
  23. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

  24. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    If you google his name, Prince Michael, and vitiligo a few photos come up. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/michael-jacksons-son-suffer-loss-pigment/story?id=11064783
  25. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    When both families met MJ, both mother and father were working parents. I can't link to that, but read it or maybe it was even in the documentary, neither mother was a stay at home mom at that time. Just FYI. The Australian dad did try to stop them from returning to the USA, was obviously a mess, he's the one who took his own life, right? Sorry, I still get the moms and dads confused.
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