Umbelina

OfMathew got Hannah sent away and that sympathetic Martha killed. Of course her tattling turned June against her. She later realized OfMathew was just another victim. She didn't kill Mrs. Lawrence, she killed herself because she knew she was jeopardizing the mission to rescue 86 kids and 9 Martha's. She failed to SAVE her (or try to, it may not have worked) for the same reason Mrs. Lawrence took the pills. It was 95 people or one person, and June made that call. Which was not at all an easy choice, save one or save nearly 100?

As I said, they can still introduce the pedophile murderer as Hannah's intended husband, but not make him Lydia's only confederate conspirator as Lawrence is. Lydia had more than one, they could BOTH be. However, I think Lawrence, for show purposed, would be much more interesting/effective as the main guy. It changes NOTHING of importance in the story. At all.

Hannah had no idea the guy was murdering his wives, did she? Lydia knew, but Hannah just thought he was old and icky, and she was terrified of sex from the school and from her abuse.

and that terrified her FLDS girls are raised in that same kind of world, and many of them try to escape when that is about to happen as well.

Oh I think there are plenty of other reasons a 14 year old doesn't want to be married to a stranger. That said, having Lawrence be Lydia's main contact wouldn't prevent a murdering pedophile from also being on screen, and chosen for Hannah.

No, they aren't. Handmaids are only assigned to Commanders who DO have infertile wives as well. If they have tried for a child for a long time, and failed, they are given a handmaid. It's not a wedding gift, it's only AFTER their own wife cannot conceive. Also, the show aged down many of the wives of the original story, most of whom were well beyond child bearing years.

I think so. For example, the tenderness shown to Janine, and frankly, never killing June, I think it's because she does see June as a natural foe/leader and is seeing if she can use that for her ultimate goal of getting even with and destroying all those who set up Gilead. More though? We saw the whole blackmail thing happening already, with Commander Lawrence. The secrets Lydia collects are her main power, and now she's actually used some to survive. I think Lawrence may replace the murdering pedophile in the book, which would be an acceptable change to me.

I disagree that June's action are not war. I vehemently disagree that June's actions have not been effective. I completely disagree that June is responsible for people who were killed by Gilead. This is guerilla war, it's happening all over Gilead. June is a small piece of that, an inspirational piece to those still imprisoned, to be sure, but still a small but rather flashy piece of the war on Gilead. Honestly, it was Emily who buoyed her up when she was wondering what to do. Emily is a huge force, and I don't think she's done yet. She didn't tell June what to do or how to feel, she asked the questions needed to get June's fighting spirit back. This is not a conventional war, the Mayday people don't have uniformed troops. This war is hand to hand, rescuing when you can, killing the leaders whenever possible, disruption of Gilead's sense of security, blowing up a train, providing a safe house at risk of personal safety, it's down and dirty and up close and personal, and that includes all that's been said, as well as subversion tactics, and basically anything that helps ruin Gilead. Dismissing June's actions as unimportant is an error, and yes, that includes the example she made of Fred. People DO talk, we've watched them talk for four years, whispering over vegetables, "My Commander hasn't been home for a week, his wife is crying, I think I might be reassigned!" "I heard he was poisoned at some kind of men's club where they drink and have women!" "I heard June poisoned him!" "Mine's gone too, and there are lot's of closed door conversations happening all over!" OR, for another example, Lydia questioning Joseph since she has to assign handmaids, "So, when do we expect Commander Williams back, or do we?" Joseph responding, "We don't." Whispers always happen, and the Mayday Marthas are just part of that. Word will get around.

They ALL had their revenge, or as I prefer to see it, their JUSTICE. They forced the man who helped devise and maintain Gilead justice to die by the same sword he helped create. Had they let Gilead kill him? It would have been a quiet private hanging, sending no message of hope to those still trapped in Gilead, or fighting in the various wars all over Gilead. They sent a message, a huge message, to all those who have lost hope, especially to those still trapped in Gilead. Word will get around, about his death, about the poisoning deaths. That kind of thing is powerful, the leaders themselves are no longer safe, help is out there, hang on, or do what you can from where you are. June's saved far more people than have died because they CHOSE to follow June. She didn't force anyone. She didn't kill any of them. GILEAD did, and still does. They have agency and made their own choices. I'm curious about what your solution is to the Gilead horrors?

Not at all. People make choices based on what they are able to do. Moira helped many refugees adjust to life out of Gilead, helped them get medical cards, and housing. Where I think she overstepped was thinking she was qualified to lead group therapy, and instead of letting people talk, tell their truths, she clamped down on that and instead tried to force HER truths on them. They were not ready, which is why they responded to June. Most people do not fight in wars, they stay home and stay safe. However, some MUST fight, or horrendous regimes, like Hitler's, or Gilead's? Go unchecked and continue to murder, to enslave, to oppress, to rape. Moira killed to save herself. Mayday kills to save others, or save their country. People are different. They contribute what they can. Exactly, and as I said earlier, I would probably choose something similar to Moira's plan, but I would get the hell out of Canada, which is within a breath of an unstable regime that is capable of anything. I'd probably run and hide far far away from all of it. Not at all. Where Moira was selfish was in expecting other refugees to do it HER WAY. She was clamping down on their ability to speak, one reason why Emily was such a mess, and some others in that group were a mess. It's not all peace love and relax. Moira's been gone and safe for a LONG time, and she was never a handmaid. Her way is not the way these people needed at that time. What's to compliment? They are keeping themselves safe. Woo. No judgement, but they are doing absolutely nothing to help the others still in hell in Gilead, and at the very least, need to recognize that not all share their feelings, and those that don't are not "bad" or "wrong." Yes, and thank God for those people who are willing to put their lives on the line for others, for justice, for equality, for the end of rape and murder, and child breeding facilities. Thank God for people who want to end a system that kills all educated people, gays, and cut's women's eye's out for standing up for themselves. This is war. Some will want to fight. Some won't. June wants to, and obviously is inspirational to others as well, those who have that same desire. Think about Gilead right now, all those Commanders who never came home from that Jezebels! The Martha and Handmaid networks, and Mayday realizing, in a very direct way, that the war IS being fought, that hope DOES exist, that there are people out there willing to take down Gilead. How many more will that inspire? Who else inside Gilead will take out their Commander? How at ease are Commanders now at their Jezebel's rape clubs? I think this is changing everything for them, they know children are now out of Gilead, and safe, as well as resistance fighters, safe, and their Commanders? Are dying. It's HUGE.

Who was called weak or selfish, and by whom?

I agree. Remember that other group of Commanders that was poisoned by June as well. She's taking out the leaders of Gilead. Warring forces, rebels, Mayday are taking out troops and wasting Gilead resources all over the country as well. This is a multi-pronged attack that has been going on for years, ever since the coup that murdered the congressional, judicial, and executive branch of the US government, eliminated the constitution, and subjugated all women (and others.) June's done a couple of remarkable things, but none have been out of the blue, her experiences helped prepare her. Her near escapes showed her more of how the rebels work, safe houses work. She learned about Mayday initially from Emily, and volunteered, carried out a pretty dangerous mission at Jezebels, where she also gave Moira a pep talk about escaping, and not giving up. She knew about Jezebel's from her creep of a commander, Fred, she learned about black markets from Nick (someone she was forced to know by Serena) and was told he was an Eye, which he confirmed. Fred's ego, as we saw clearly in the scenes in this episode (and before) deceived him into believing June really did secretly desire/care for him. That's why that kiss with Nick was so powerful this time. Fred knew, at that moment, just what a fool he was. Lawrence liked smart women, he preferred Emily because she was brilliant and thus "not boring." Emily had to go after that attack on Lydia though. June didn't exactly charm Lawrence, she wasn't as clever or brilliant as Emily, but she learned how to work with him, initially through his wife, and eventually got him to open up to her a bit. Her sheer audacity at the plan to save both Joseph, his wife, and doing that by having Joseph show up with a bunch of kids to ensure his forgiveness rather than immediate execution in Canada, and be able to get his wife some help? Worked. That fell apart, with his wife losing it and nearly exposing all of them. June REFUSED to give up on the plan, and many more children showed up than she expected. She risked her life getting into Jezebel's to arrange for a bigger plane. At Lawrence's place she also got up close and personal with the main "Mayday" group in Boston, those Martha's, and insisted on learning their ways and helping where she could. The resisted but finally allowed her in, where she learned about bomb makers etc. Then Lawrence forced her to choose who would live and who would die at the detention center. At first, horrified, she broke and couldn't. Later she realized she needed to save the women who would be of most use to the resistance, so she did. When the plane was about to be attacked, she created a distraction, herself, and began to run to lead the guardians away from the airstrip and allow the plane to take off. She fully expected to be shot or captured, she had no idea the handmaids followed her rather than get on the plane and escape themselves. Along her bumpy path, she's learned quite a bit, including from the Aunts. If Lydia hadn't punished her so harshly by making her pray for months at the bed of the brain dead Handmaid who had betrayed Hannah? She probably would never have come to the conclusion that getting Hannah out wasn't enough, that all the children were just as important as Hannah. Since Hannah was out of reach, even Lawrence didn't know where she'd been sent? She hatched the plan of rescuing other children. Each step of June's path has prepared her for all of this. She is certainly NOT the only one fighting, but in many ways she's uniquely qualified to do quite a few vital things, from killing Commanders (with Esther's safe house poison and her knowledge of Jezebels) to how supply planes work, and how to bargain for one from the underground profiteers at Jezebels. Now she just negotiated for 22 more resistance fighter's freedom. So what's that total of rescues now? Well over 100 people. How many Commanders has she killed? More than most, although Moira killed one too. People in Gilead ARE fighting back, all over, and June is one of them. Killing Fred that way sent a huge message as well. Emily was all in from the beginning, without Emily? Who knows which choice June would have made there? That little talk, close ups on both of them, called that decision. As far as the others who participated in classic Gilead justice? Does anyone obviously think they were forced somehow? They looked pretty enthusiastic to me, and I doubt that was a one time thing, for some, maybe that tiny bit of justice was enough and they can go live their lives. For others, probably most? They just got a small bit of power back, and hopefully, realize they CAN make a difference, and fight to overthrow the monsters that stole their country, their freedoms, and their bodies.

Maybe. So you think they should all just give up, write off all the stolen children, and subjugated slaves still being beaten and raped and not allowed to read, their daughters old enough to be married off to whomever, and just be happy they escaped? OK then.

That they executed a Commander, using the same methods that Commander helped initiate in Gilead, and they didn't do it because he betrayed Gilead, but because he's a war criminal. Oh, and by the way, we also executed a bunch of Commanders at one of your Jezebel clubs. The message? Keep it up dudes, and you will be next. ETA Oh, and guess what boys? WOMEN did that, watch your backs.

You fight with what you have. You don't think that sent a message to Gilead?

No. I specifically mentioned it was about who Emily WAS, and was from the beginning, before she ever met June. I'm saying that petitions will not bring down Gilead. The goals are different. Moira just wants peace and happiness and safety, and that's fine for Moira. What's not fine is trying to force those beliefs on others when you've made yourself a leader of a support group. June, and I think Emily? Want more. They want Gilead gone, and everyone imprisoned in hell there free. That will not, IMO, happen peacefully. That's why Emily joined Mayday, to fight. That's why Emily recruited June. To fight. They win? They are heroes. They lose? They are terrorists. Victors write history. ETA Which type do I admire? Probably those who fight for justice, and for others, not just for themselves, and their own personal safety.

Maybe so. I don't think she's thinking clearly though. A clear and present danger is one footstep away from the country where she's hiding out and thinking she's safe. ETA I don't know how much she's helping now. She certainly did help in the beginning. That group seemed to turn on her pretty fast, they wouldn't have done that if she was meeting their needs or helping them.

I used that as an example of who Emily really is. I didn't mention applause or criticism for that. She was part of the regime, she held women down so they could be raped. For Emily? That was enough.

BTW, Maybe it's that I'm older, but I'm not really the June type either, not that fearless, not that willing to give up my life for a cause, no matter how great. I know one thing though, I'd be long gone from Canada if I were the pacifist type. Hawaii maybe, but more likely someplace in Europe that I could be sure wouldn't extradite me, or that would allow me to become a full fledged citizen. At the very least, some place further away than a short car or boat ride from Gilead. If I was going to flee rather than fight? I'd flee further away.

I didn't say Moira was worse, or better for that matter. I'm saying that Moira is settling for a false security, trying to do as much good as she can, she's worked hard with refugees for a long time. Is that valueless? Absolutely not, except when she tries to direct their feelings instead of listening to them, and what THEY need. What Moira won't do though? Is stop Gilead. That's June's goal and she will continue to fight it until she dies or helps bring it down. Moira thinks she's safe now, but really? She's a refugee living in a rather powerless country VERY close to Gilead. As long as Gilead exists, and she is still a citizen of that country, based on her being a US citizen and them taking it over? She's not really safe. No one is while Gilead exists. I think June gets that. I think Emily gets that. I think a lot of the refugees, especially those that were handmaids get that. False security is no security at all. I'm so sorry. I've had a similar experience, and it's kind of on going, since it's my best friend's husband and my God children's dad. ETA Ex husband now thank God. Oh, and no, I don't forgive him, I don't forget, I think he should be grateful he's not dead.

From the photo, it looked like part of an old bridge. Nick would have known June wanted him on the wall, she certainly made it clear to everyone else, so he could pick the right place.

Fred's the daddy of Serena's child. Ooops! Will fix! THANK YOU!

Maybe if June was a man people would applaud her, especially if she was a handsome man, imagine the support if you just switch genders and cast a hunk.

Well, Emily is not timid anymore, and she looks much happier. ETA Gilead beat Emily down, but even when they did? She fought. She joined Mayday before June knew what it was. She stole a car and ran over two soldiers. She tried, and nearly succeeded in beating Lydia to death. She personally killed a "wife" in the colonies. She started out a powerful college professor, ended up in Moira's support group listening to clap trap about forgiveness and moving on. Then June arrives, and Emily remembered who she was before. A strong woman who takes crap from no one. She's ready to fight, and fighting is what it's going to take. This wasn't her first step into fighting, but it was a well needed reminder of who she is.

The showrunner confirmed Fred is the daddy of Serena's baby. In the EW article. Fantastic post! Thank you! I agree with every single word. June is the person who fights for freedom, for justice, for the rights and dignity of everyone, doesn't simply accept her own lucky escape and sit back on her ass and say, "so is there some kind of fund I should contribute to?" No. She knows what must be done, and is willing to do it. She never expected to live when she drew fire away from the kids, the Martha's, and the other handmaid's that were supposed to be on that plane to Canada, she just did it. People blame her for those deaths, but rarely ever credit her for how very many she's helped escape, for how many commander's she's eliminated, for wanting to join the rebels in the fight, not just hide or escape. People can unexpectedly become leaders, especially in times of great peril, or war. Audie Murphy was just a kid who lied about his age to join the forces in WWII, and became a medal of honor winner back before medals were handed out like candy, why? Because there was something inside him that made him not give up, made him not give in, made him protect what may now seem to be obscure values about right and wrong, and his country. I don't know why some have such a hard time picturing a woman in the hero role, a woman who is not the most attractive thing out there, or strong looking. Murphy was only 5'5" tall by the way, not your typical he-man hero, but hero he was, and he had much less reason to be that brave. June has all the reasons, and her ability to win people over, Lawrence (I think he mostly appreciates her sheer audacity, and that she's not the same-ol' same ol',) and Nick, a jaded man who has done horrible things, and has no way out, but will still do what he can for this unusual woman he admires, is a huge asset for the resistance cause. June speaks truth to power, at this point, after all she's been through, she speaks truth to all power, even her best friend that would just prefer to hide in Canada and rejoice in the fact that she's out, and maybe march or sign a petition to help all those left behind. June KNOWS it will take much more than that to bring Gilead down, to "save all the children" not just her own, and to eventually free everyone still stuck in Gilead. She will do whatever it takes. She gets responses for that, from Lawrence, from Nick, from the other women in that support group, from the handmaids that gave up their own chance at freedom to follow her when she acted as bait to ensure that plane full of kids, Marthas, and (she thought) handmaids were escaping. Now, she even has Tuello's respect. She's building a power base, because of who she is, not what she says, but what she has done, and will do. But sure, let's talk about her close ups some more, and ignore that we are watching an incredible female force of nature defy incredible obscenity and horror to do what is right, no matter the cost. Let's blame her for deaths, even though she coerced no one. Let's ignore her accomplishments and want her dead because other characters are more palatable. June isn't supposed to be palatable. True heroes are best viewed from the future. In the present, they may not be all that likable. Bringing down repressive, horrific regimes isn't tidy or clean or nice, it's messy. June's a mess, a needed, vital mess. She's the kind of mess that makes things happen, that does NOT say "that can't be done" and instead says "Why not?" She uses whatever she has, including her experience with the black market in Jezebels, risks her life to make that contact, and trade for that plane, talks Joseph into bailing for his wife's sake, is willing to let that wife take her own life to protect the project, the goal of rescuing 86 kids and 9 Martha's in spite of her affection and feelings. Fred was going to skate, she couldn't have that. It was wrong. Many former slaves of Gilead agreed with that, and they gave him Gilead justice for his crimes, didn't allow Gilead secret justice for spilling secrets. Many women got justice that night, Fred represented all of their abusers, the people who stole their children, raped them, used them, treated them as nothing. Right now I can see a few on screen who will continue to fight for their former country, but mostly for justice and simple decency. June, Emily, perhaps Janine, and a few of the other women in that Canadian support group. I think Emily will be a force. Moira and Luke? Happy to be safe themselves, would rather write letters and sign petitions, maybe lead a march, but will they ever get their hands dirty? Doubt it. ETA fixed baby daddy response.