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S08.E04: The Last of the Starks


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3 minutes ago, seawind said:

100%. The double Ds totally forced this, and it sucks big time. I'm so intensely disappointed right now I have a huge pit in my stomach. They just blew it. Completely. 😞

No wonder D&D have talked about being off the grid during the finale. They maybe should go now.

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Did anyone else's breath catch when Arya said she had no intentions of returning to Winterfell? Not that I'm predicting she'll die, but damm, she's not going to see her family again? 

Wouldn't you think Sansa's time with Littlefinger would've made her smarter? Lord Baelish was the master of sitting on information until he could best use it to his advantage. Sansa blabbing Jon's secret two seconds after he told her was not very prudent. Especially when it was clear the Dragon Queen's sanity was hanging by a thread. 

My prediction is on Varys selling Dany out. There's no way Euron just happened upon her fleet. He was definitely tipped off. 

Arya and the Hound, back on the road again? I'm here for it. 

I'm heartbroken for Greyworm. 

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The cheese factor on this episode was ridiculous. The only thing that made sense to me was Arya turning down Gendry hopefully to kill Cersei while the Hound takes out his brother and completes her list. 

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13 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

At this point the line of people who want to murder Cersie is getting REALY long, but right at this moment I hope Grey Worm gets to do the honors.

Actually, Cersei's death belongs to Sansa.  I'm ready for someone to take Euron out of the game.

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(edited)
11 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

So who set Dany up? How did Euron know exactly when they’d be headed back to Dragonstone? 

Also, tonight’s episode totally proved that Dany is smart - she knew exactly what would happen when Jon told the Starks about his heritage. Dany deserves better, but strong women must be broken. 

I didn't think she was set up. Cersei would have heard the White Walkers were defeated and was just lying in wait for Dany. What I don't understand is why Dany's team was so ill prepared.

Edited by ferjy
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6 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Tyrion, when will you fucking get it?

I expected little, spiny porcupinetyrion to be lying on the sand.  You know Cersei showed rare restraint. 

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14 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

At this point the line of people who want to murder Cersie is getting REALY long, but right at this moment I hope Grey Worm gets to do the honors.

I’m in that line.

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2 minutes ago, Leroux said:

What is perplexing about this rightful heir to the IT to me is that not for one second did it cross Daenerys mind the idea of asking Jon to rule with her, to make him understand that they will be stronger together as co-rulers. A marriage of equals would be the best but that is obviously not what she wants, she wants him to not ever say a word and act just like her consort. 

Why? 

Why she is so hell-bent on being the only ruler? Jon definitely will let her do all the ruling and only make her consider her most drastic decisions. I am sure she loves him and wants to marry him but she doesn't want to share power with him? 

She should have never asked him to keep his identity a secret just so she can claim the throne alone. That was awfully selfish. 

Because it makes sense and doesn’t serve the Dany is Mad nonsense that it appears we are about to get in the final two episodes of an eight year series. 

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1 minute ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Actually, Cersei's death belongs to Sansa.  I'm ready for someone to take Euron out of the game.

They're really making us hate him so we'll really cheer on his demise.

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The bad:

1. Brienne and Jamie sleeping together

2. Rhagel dying

3. Jon telling his sisters 

4. Them not showing us tell his sisters 

5. Drogon not setting fire to the ships after his brother was killed

6. Drogon not responding to missendei’s dracarys and burning stuff

7. Varys turning on Dany

8. Arya not realizing she can still be with Gendy even if she’s not a lady 

The good: 

1. It’s game of thrones 

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Tyrion is definitely not as clever as he think he is, if he keep on believing his sister has a heart. I know they talk about Dany being mad, Cersei is worse. At this point I don't care if Dany goes Mad Queen, Cersei needs to be taken out even Dany dies doing it. 

I guess Missandei was telling Dany to burn it to the ground. She doesn't care this isn't her land. Maybe Dany should just go back to Essos and be their Queen, she was well on her way. That was more her home than Westeros. 

Jon was dumb to think anyone in the North would keep that secret. Especially Sansa who only cares about the North. Of course she'd run and tell anyone she could. 

They are really saving their money by getting rid of Ghost and Rhaegel. Dany better hide Drogon or he's going to die too. 

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(edited)

Actually come to think of it Dany's more like Mary Queen of Scots. Mary Queen of Scots also went to her death convinced she was the rightful heir. Mary Queen of Scots was beloved by people who knew her. But she was felled by the fact that she would not give up her claim to the throne (and Elizabeth I was a lot more humane than Cersei which ... isn't saying much, but still). 

Edited by Growsonwalls
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In 8x02 Tyrion told Jaime that he always knew what Cersei was but he loved her anyway. Tyrion is doing the exact same thing with Daenerys. Sansa, Tyrion, Varys, Arya, Bran, Sam and even Jon to some degree can all see it, but Tyrion and Jon are closing their eyes to the truth. And thousands of innocent people will suffer for it. 

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6 minutes ago, phoenix780 said:

Um...I'm impressed that this turned out to be as intense as last week's battle with the undead army. I really wish this weren't my late Sunday show, though. Another dragon down, and Missandei (which I bet I spelled wrong). That was a lot. 

Much as I love the show, I can't go with them to a place where I'm rooting for Jon over Dany. I've been rooting for her for years, no amount of talking is going to change that now, and I haven't seen them show me anything to make me waver. In a world with people like Cersei, I think you kinda have to want to rule, otherwise you'll lose it in a second. 

I am fine with Dany ruling. I do think they would be stronger TOGETHER, I think Jon has shown he has more administrative skills. And heirs are a good thing. All of this turning against Dany feels like a plot device. I think Ayra was being more fair to her while Sansa still has so much PTSD from her time in the south she is projecting a lot of things onto Dany that have nothing to do with Dany. 

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3 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

No, she really hasn’t. There’s nothing in the lead up that she suggests that she’s mad. Also, Sansa is just spiteful. 

And shouldn’t everyone be worried about Jon going mad? He is after all a Targ. This show. 

Not mad... just ruthess

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5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Did anyone else's breath catch when Arya said she had no intentions of returning to Winterfell? Not that I'm predicting she'll die, but damm, she's not going to see her family again? 

Wouldn't you think Sansa's time with Littlefinger would've made her smarter? Lord Baelish was the master of sitting on information until he could best use it to his advantage. Sansa blabbing Jon's secret two seconds after he told her was not very prudent. Especially when it was clear the Dragon Queen's sanity was hanging by a thread. 

My prediction is on Varys selling Dany out. There's no way Euron just happened upon her fleet. He was definitely tipped off. 

Arya and the Hound, back on the road again? I'm here for it. 

I'm heartbroken for Greyworm. 

I'm hopeful that she may go to Storm's End to be with Gendry...

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1 minute ago, Drogo said:

Otherwise, how would Tyrion have known? 

Does Euron think Cersei posted her ultrasound photo on her Instagram story?

That was my first thought. I wish they'd given a reaction shot of Euron. Then again his epression only goes between smug asshole or grinning sadist so it's hard to tell anything. 

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I totally forgot to say the opening just broke me. Seeing everyone saying goodbye to the people that died for them, just really gut wrenching. And then the fires, leading to the wake, so well done.

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2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Dany's whole life has just been too wrapped around the idea that only she is the rightful heir. She just can't course correct. For all her warmth and humanity she definitely has a Marie Antoinette side to her.

This is a lie. She grew up believing that her brother was the rightful heir to the throne. He sold her to Drogo to help get an army for himself. Dany really didn’t care until after Viserys died and Robert kept sending assasins to try and kill her. 

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14 minutes ago, seawind said:

I am so profoundly disappointed in the show, I can't even process what I'm feeling right now. Everything that happened the second after Dany flew the dragons DIRECTLY OVER KING'S LANDING IN BROAD DAYLIGHT WHEN THEY KNOW THAT CERSEI HAS WEAPONS THAT FUCKING KILL DRAGONS and everything that happened AFTER THEY SAILED RIGHT UP TO KING'S LANDING IN BROAD DAYLIGHT was a complete waste. There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL, NOT IN ANY UNIVERSE, that that would have been something that Dany or Tyrion or any of them would have done. This was just the show forcing things in order to kill another dragon and then Missandei, two more things Dany loves, so that we could get the "mad queen Dany." I can't even be sad about Rhaegal and Missandei, because THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DIED BECAUSE THE WAY THEY CAME UPON THE CAPITAL WAS ASININE.

Show, you did something far, far worse than anything you may have done in The Long Night. You broke my heart. 😞

They weren't going to Kings Landing, they were going to Dragonstone. Euron somehow knew that and was waiting for them. 

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20 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

And can I say, Goddamn you, Jaime, for hurting our sweet Brienne. 

When Missandei said "Dracarys" before she was executed, was that her pledging her final loyalty to Dany, or telling Dany to burn the city to the ground?

I think a little of both

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(edited)

Im just going to say that I absolutely loved this episode!

That I think everything that Varys said was right.  Now that Sansa knows, she won't stop till Jon is on the throne or the North is free. So the only way for the Kingdom to remain whole is for Jon and Dany to marry, or for Jon to take the throne.

I actually think they set it up nicely, not for Dany to go crazy, but to do something stupid.  The problem is, that if that stupid thing is right in front of thousands of people who've known nothing of her except what Cersei said......it may inflame the 'Mad Queen' propaganda that Cersei is floating. 

Edited by LadyChaos
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4 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

it didn't occur to Daenerys to circle around Euron's fleet and burn the ships from the rear (all the dragon killer harpoons were facing front)

That's sure the way the harpoons looked, and the sails weren't set for maneuvering.

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6 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I never thought I'd be so disappointed by this show. The descent into cartoonish "Mad Queen" territory for Daenerys does not really feel earned, nor do I buy into the idea that Jon wouldn't want revenge under the same circumstances. This idea that she is too strong for him to rule together but that somehow makes him the better leader seems a little confusing and the whole thing reeks of "Telling" not "Showing" for me. 

Dany didn't really work for me this episode either. She's hellbent on rushing to KL ASAP, when Sansa clearly has a point - all of the armies need some rest and reinforcements. Cersei isn't going to go anywhere, so take a week or two and then go at it. 

But it isn't really unearned, they've hinted at this stuff for seasons now - at least it doesn't come out of left field. But it did feel a bit rushed, it just should've been more gradual. There was plenty enough stuff in this episode for two regular sized ones, maybe that would've given them more time. 

3 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

So who set Dany up? How did Euron know exactly when they’d be headed back to Dragonstone?

A fleet shouldn't be too hard to find and it's not like he has anywhere else to go, so they can just camp out there, wait for signals from their scouts and then get in position. 

The only problem I have is that they've now gone twice to the Euron surprise attack well. But I guess there just isn't any other way he can be used if not for these kinds of attack. 

2 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I don't even know what to think right now..woah!!

But Kings Landing is going to burn based on the look of Dany's face..

KL is going to burn no matter what, that was pretty much inevitable. The only question has always been, who's going to light it up? Cersei or Dany? Looks like the answer could be both. 

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