S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[Drogo]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

He has the better claim because his father was born before Daenrys' father, not because he has a cock.

His father was Daenerys' father's son.

His claim is considered stronger due to his being the eldest trueborn male offspring (of the King's eldest trueborn male offspring.) 

So actually there is quite a bit of penis-favoring involved. 

[cambridgeguy]

Just now, JennyMominFL said:

I thought Varys was totally wrong and was even wrong about the reason Jon had the better claim.  He has the better claim because his father was born before Daenrys' father, not because he has a cock. 

Well that would be quite the miracle since Dany's father is Jon's grandfather.  Jon's claim is better because he's the son of the crown prince.  Of course that doesn't really mean anything - Cersei had no claim to the throne but she grabbed it anyway.

I think Dany might have listened to Sansa's very good point about the tired soldiers IF she hadn't spent the past few episodes treating her with poorly disguised disdain.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Yes, I agree. She's like her direwolf now. She can have a home, but she doesn't see herself domesticated. She even kept herself out of the celebrations.

8 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Exactly. Having their soldiers recuperate from the battle makes sense. Dany made a false equivalency when stating that her soldiers came immediately to the North - they hadn't just been decimated by a huge battle. Sansa's point wasn't that the North wasn't going to reciprocate - but that some recuperation was necessary for them to fight the next "last" battle.

Yes, even taking into consideration that Sansa's got a thing against Dany--everybody kept announcing it in this ep even--she still doesn't seem actively hostile to me the way Dany was to her at times. Her suggestions in that meeting more than made sense and Dany did act like they were insulting or proof that Sansa was going to keep the North in the North instead of fighting for her so Jon had to overcompensate. Even her telling Tyrion the truth, while a betrayal of the oath she just took, didn't seem like so much scheming as her really not thinking it was fair to have to keep that a secret.

3 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

I feel for Dany.  She has no family; particularly without Jorah and Missandei. I do not understand Sansa’s reasoning for being so opposed to Dany.  Dany has done nothing to Sansa.

I felt bad for Dany too--she keeps seeing signs that she doesn't really belong here, that it isn't "her land" the way she sees herself. But I don't think Sansa's behavior is that strange.

3 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

On the flip side; while Danny is right to want revenge against Cersei...she shouldn’t discount the feelings of the Starks.  Christ, the Lannisters killed their father, mother, brother, etc...  

I have a sense that Jon is not going to die, but instead will head north at the end of this story.  It was nice to see Jon actually happy for a few scenes for once.

Jaime is not returning to Cersei for love.  He knows she wanted Bronn to off him.

[Popples]

1 minute ago, Jenesis said:

Very quick comment right now.

Am I going crazy? Why does Dany and everyone act like her helping against the NK is some favor? If she wants people to bow, she needs to protect them.

I know, when she kept calling it "Jon's War", she seemed to not understand that if she didn't help fight against the Night King then, she'd have to do it eventually if they actually got to march farther south.

[Luckylyn]

Just now, Jenesis said:

Very quick comment right now.

Am I going crazy? Why does Dany and everyone act like her helping against the NK is some favor? If she wants people to bow, she needs to protect them.

The Night King was a threat to everyone.  He wasn't just a danger to the people of the North Dany helping with the battle in The Long Night was about everyone's survival.   It was in Dany's best interests to try to stop the invasion of the dead.  So it's not something she should feel owed for. 

[LadyChaos]

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

Two things:

1) I desperately wanted Missandei to grab Cersei and kamikaze them both off the ledge once she knew she was dead.

2) I’d now like to see Bronn dead right behind Cersei. Jamie can take them both out. His “pragmatic mercenary” schtick ain’t cute anymore. 

Oh and 3) Not looking forward to the inevitable “wah Sansa broke her word right away” complaints even though it was absurd for Dany to ask Jon to keep such a huge secret (and pretend it was out of love for him), and absurd for Jon to ask his sisters to keep such a huge secret and make them swear without knowing what they were swearing to. Arya doesn’t give a shit because all she cares about now is her list. Sansa is still looking at the bigger picture when almost no one else (except Varys) is. 

I wish 1 would have happened.

Yeah, I think Tyrion knows that is even a promise he cant honor, so Bronn just needs to be done.  Unless Bronn says, yeah I knew you couldn't really give me High garden....I just like you too much to kill you.

3)Honestly, I think Sansa did the right thing.  Everything Varys said is true.  For the North to remain in the 7 kingdoms, Jon either has to be on the throne or married to Dany.   I think Sansa will not stop until Jon is on the throne, or the North is free.  

[Traveller519]

I do have to hand it to the survivors of Winterfell. Mass funeral for your friends in in the morning, mass frat party/courtyard orgy in the evening.

The tone on that didn't take long to shift. Well for everyone but our two favourite lone canines.

[TobinAlbers]

40 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

All that said, I thought Sansa had a point about the soldiers needing rest after "The Great War."  And that's why she's been so adverse to Jon's love for Dany, she knows Dany's word will be law for Jon no matter what she says.  Jon made it very clear Sansa was to shut up in the war planning meeting.

Which is why I loved that it was Arya that cut him off and said we need to talk and laid it out that none of them trusted his Queen. Yes, the North needed Dany and her dragons but now that the war with NK was over and Dany was back on her goal of the IT and there was an after to talk about, Team Stark was up front again about their issues. 

I don't think Dany is a Mad Queen but I think the perfect storm of things getting away from her and everyone else kicked up with a little help of her still feeling like an outsider in the North combined with the adulation that Jon was being shown while she sat alone and the fact that all her blood, sweat, tears, pain, and losses could be for nothing since Jon has a good claim for the throne. That The North still wasn't 100% kissing the ring was pissing her off. So she's feeling vulnerable but trying to rally and take the IT and not listening to Sansa's not bad advice of resting and regrouping. Dany seemed as much hellbent to get away from The North as she was to get to the IT because she knew she wasn't accepted there and sick of it to the point she pushed a still recovering Rhaegal to travel. Not that he still wouldn't have been lost to ambush, but Dany's urgency felt a bit rash in light of their losses. She's making mistakes but then so is everyone. 

Meanwhile everyone is also playing the game, protecting themselves, going for power or security and like I said, a perfect storm is brewing that's testing, pushing, and pulling at Dany that's potentially leading her down a dark path and proving everyone's  fears about her true.

Anyway, wish Varys and Tyrion had acknowledged how Ned Stark actually had gotten one over on everyone. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by TobinAlbers

[Popples]

If Bronn was offered Riverrun, does that mean Edmure Tully is dead? Arya killed all of the Frey men when he was back in the dungeons at The Twins. Did the women not know he was down there and he just starved to death?

[TiredMe]

Jesus I thought this episode was a mess. I hated Gendry proposing. What is this? the Bachelor?  And I was never a fan of Brienne and Jamie so I was screaming no during their cringy ass hook up. 

The true low point was Tyrion asking what she was like down there. Good god show! 

I expect death so frankly Missandei was no surprise but I’m upset we lost another dragon. And don’t get me started on Jon sending Ghost away. 

[catrice2]

This whole episode made little sense.  I am glad I came to the series late because I do not want to understand Sansa.....

It is obvious now they are just pandering to fans and doing things for shock value. It made no sense for Missandei to be the one that was captured, and how would Cersei know how much she valued what she would essentially see as a servant?   They did if for shock value, just like having Lyanna fight and be killed...and yet the much worse characters are still around.  The writing this season has just been bonkers. It is almost like they did not know what else to do.  i can't wait for some White Walker/night King crap to show up in the last episode.  

I hope Arya and Jon find out that Sansa cannot be trusted...this "family" bond is only when it i convenient. 

What is Bran good for if he could not have foreseen and forewarned of the ambush?  Can Jaimie come back and push him out of another window, or better, off a cliff? 

I really hate that they sort of played the scene with Brienne and Jaimie for comedy.  I think regardless of who she is that it should have been much more romantic because of who she is...

[WaltersHair]

Who bedazzled Cercei's bodice? Love it.

Are we ever going to find out who the NK was as a human?

Should Cercei have just gone ahead and arrowed Tyrion to death?

Bald snake man should go first next week during Cleagan bowl

[Drogo]

3 minutes ago, Popples said:

I know, when she kept calling it "Jon's War", she seemed to not understand that if she didn't help fight against the Night King then, she'd have to do it eventually if they actually got to march farther south.

Among so many other things, that's what separates Dany from Cersei.

[Bali]

I am so heartbroken. This episode was so much harder than I thought it would be. 

Jaime has said it all along, he loves the vile bitch.

Poor Tormund.

Jon, you are a cold heartless jerk. Can't even spare a pat on the head for poor Ghost.

I don't care who kills Cersei, just as long as she does dead. Euron, you moron, you die too. You hurt my eyes with your icky presence on my screen. 

This was an emotional roller coaster tonight. From the funeral to happiness and laughter to sorrow. 

But as far as the Mad Queen shit, bullshit. At this point, even if Daenerys doesn't destroy the city, Greyworm will.

[tennisgurl]

Why wont anyone just say "hey Jon and Dany, you are both clearly like each other, arent too upset by the incest thing, have temperaments that balance each other, and between the two of you have a massive ass army and tons of loyal advisers and people to follow you, and both have claims, so maybe you should, gee I dont know, get married and rule as co rulers!?! Its not that complicated guys! Just make another stupid uncomfortable chair and stick it next to the other one, anything to end this game of musical chairs from Hell!!!"?!?

Davros, we need you and your common sense right the fuck now! 

[LadyChaos]

3 minutes ago, TiredMe said:

Jesus I thought this episode was a mess. I hated Gendry proposing. What is this? the Bachelor?

I think he was high off of this legimaticy. I think when he thinks later, he knows that Arya would have never accepted. Personally, I don't know if anyone ever read the Graceling series....but Arya and Gendry remind of the lead male and female.  Being in love, but not getting married.  Only coming together and being together in passing, but each living life on their own terms.

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Why wont anyone just say "hey Jon and Dany, you are both clearly like each other, arent too upset by the incest thing, have temperaments that balance each other, and between the two of you have a massive ass army and tons of loyal advisers and people to follow you, and both have claims, so maybe you should, gee I dont know, get married and rule as co rulers!?! Its not that complicated guys! Just make another stupid uncomfortable chair and stick it next to the other one, anything to end this game of musical chairs from Hell!!!"?!?

Davros, we need you and your common sense right the fuck now! 

As Varys pointed out....Jon had an issue with incest, and Dany won't share power.

Edited May 6, 2019 by LadyChaos

[dizzyd]

Btw, the title was "The last of the Starks". And that doesn't make any sense either. This episode really bombed. ☹️

[Bryce Lynch]

33 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Actually, Cersei's death belongs to Sansa.  I'm ready for someone to take Euron out of the game.

Why should it belong to Sansa?  She was Cersei's little dove and has expressed admiration for Cersei.  She is a liar and schemer just like Cersei.  If she had Cersei's balls, she would be a monster like her.  

She has never had any loyalty to her family.  She hated Jon and Arya growing up and she was instantly more loyal to her golden lion Joffrey.  It was only after she personally started being abused that she turned against the Lannisters. 

Later she covered for Littlefinger in the murder of her aunt, when she would have been perfectly safe telling the truth.  

She doesn't care about House Stark or the North, only about herself and her petty jealousies.

[tennisgurl]

24 minutes ago, Drogo said:

House of Payne.

He came to get down, he came to get down 😉 

[ShellsandCheese]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Why wont anyone just say "hey Jon and Dany, you are both clearly like each other, arent too upset by the incest thing, have temperaments that balance each other, and between the two of you have a massive ass army and tons of loyal advisers and people to follow you, and both have claims, so maybe you should, gee I dont know, get married and rule as co rulers!?! Its not that complicated guys! Just make another stupid uncomfortable chair and stick it next to the other one, anything to end this game of musical chairs from Hell!!!"?!?

Davros, we need you and your common sense right the fuck now! 

Because that would actually make sense and would have forced the showrunners to wrap up the show in a way that honored the past seven seasons and not just go for shocks and wows. LOTR it clearly ain’t. 

[LanceM]

Dany should burn Kings Landing to the ground. Everytime she listens to Tyrion and Varys she loses power.  Every single time. However when she takes things into her own hands she gets shit done whther it was destroying the Lannister army that had taken HIghgarden last year or saving Jon and everyone ass up beyond the Wall.  Olenna was right last season. You're a dragon be a dragon. Dracarys.

[rozen]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Why wont anyone just say "hey Jon and Dany, you are both clearly like each other, arent too upset by the incest thing, have temperaments that balance each other, and between the two of you have a massive ass army and tons of loyal advisers and people to follow you, and both have claims, so maybe you should, gee I dont know, get married and rule as co rulers!?! Its not that complicated guys! Just make another stupid uncomfortable chair and stick it next to the other one, anything to end this game of musical chairs from Hell!!!"?!?

Davros, we need you and your common sense right the fuck now! 

Wouldn't work. Dany feels like she's put more skin in the game to claim the throne in the first place and Jon always feel justified making unilateral decisions. After the honeymoon lovebug period wears off they would be at loggerheads with one another.

2 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Dany should burn Kings Landing to the ground. Everytime she listens to Tyrion and Varys she loses power.  Every single time. However when she takes things into her own hands she gets shit done whther it was destroying the Lannister army that had taken HIghgarden last year or saving Jon and everyone ass up beyond the Wall.  Olenna was right last season. You're a dragon be a dragon. Dracarys.

Honestly, I think that's what they both want, deep down. They fear her because if she wins she'll have too much firepower and too much willpower to be easily manipulated. Varys especially doesn't want a great ruler, he wants a non-psychopath that is malleable and easily manipulated. Hence his immediate switch to Team Jon.

Edited May 6, 2019 by rozen

[LadyChaos]

1 minute ago, LanceM said:

Dany should burn Kings Landing to the ground. Everytime she listens to Tyrion and Varys she loses power.  Every single time. However when she takes things into her own hands she gets shit done whther it was destroying the Lannister army that had taken HIghgarden last year or saving Jon and everyone ass up beyond the Wall.  Olenna was right last season. You're a dragon be a dragon. Dracarys.

So burning millions of innocent people alive....will totally give her the vote of confidence and instill trust in her as a ruler that she is not her father.....

[Smad]

6 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Well, maybe if Dany actually mentioned that to Jon, or if she seemed amenable to co-ruling. But it seems her desire for the throne doesn't work that way.

That's not it though. Dany and Jon should have happened as a political marriage in S7 once Dany lost all her other allies. They freaking ended S6 with Dany dumping Daario for exactly this reason. D/J can still fall in love while already being married. The whole point is that all this drama that comes with them not marrying when that's literally how it works in Westeros, could have been avoided. It would have smoothed things over in the North. And once the two were in love it would have given Jon every opportunity to smooth things over, like suggesting to Dany to give the North a certain amount of autonomy and freedom. It also would have smoothed things over with the parentage reveal and the claims that follow. Literally every problem would have been solved if this show followed the rules of the verse.

And it dragged other characters into this mess. Namely Sansa, the Northern Lords and Varys/Tyrion/Davos (who actually talk about freaking marriage proposals as if they hailed from the 21st century). It's just such stupid drama/plot because everyone watching knows the obvious solution to this utter nonsense...

[onyxrose81]

18 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

For the last time, she wasn’t headed to take on Cersei. She was headed to Dragonstone and Euron ambushed her. It wasn’t a shit plan because there was no plan. She was headed “home” not to attack Cersei or King’s Landing.

Thank you!  People acting like Dany was going to KL right away.  They were arriving at DS to come up with a plan.  

[dramachick]

Poor Missandei! 😰 But she went out with her dignity: Dracarys!

I knew Sansa wasn't going to keep that secret, and I'm glad she told Tyrion. Of course, he had to tell Varys because we need intelligent people to game-theory this shit out.

Edited May 6, 2019 by dramachick

[Scaeva]

22 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Why does everyone continually overestimate Cersei's humanity and underestimate her cunning? Especially Tyrion.  Yes, Tyrion, she IS a monster and an extremely dangerous one.  She has proven this over and over.  So what if she loved her children (and has good cheekbones).

Because the people writing the show are not as skilled with their pens as George RR Martin.

Tyrion started being daft right around the time the he was being written by the TV writers, and not adapted from something Martin had already written.

It is also why we get nonsense like Bronn materializing out of thin air to deliver demands with a crossbow. How did he get into Winterfell? How does Tyrion - the hand of a Queen - not have security within a city filled to the brim with Daenerys' soldiers?  Or Euron's ship getting off a surprise kill shot on a dragon, as if an entire fleet wouldn't have been seen before getting within firing range.

Stop hand-waiving things for unearned drama, show.

[GraceK]

I don’t get why Dany didn’t fight back when Rhaegal died. Wth? Since when is Drogon passive? Why didn’t she light shit up? Dragons are supposed to be outrageously powerful and Drogon didn’t even react for plot purposes. No way Euron should have made it out alive. That’s whats annoying, is that the villains get plot armor at ridiculous level and “ wins” that  aren’t  earned .

[UNOSEZ]

Poor tyrion fighting all episode to defend Dany... Convince Sansa and implore his sister to seemingly no avail... No idea how Bronn got in... I don't see Dany being "Mad Queen" but she did say some problematic things this episode.. But she also showed a ton of self-awareness... Tho when your bestie gets beheaded and your kid gets killed can't really blame her for wanting to do damage... Lol at Arya.. Shutting down even the possibility of getting to know Dany... I imagine Sansa and her had different reactions to Jon's news... Sansa probably immediately started thinking about the IT ( which we all expected)  Arya probably just repeated what she had just said... Ur my brother.. Not my half brother not a bastard.. My brother.. Whatever it was she seems done with Winterfell... Bran isn't bran.. He's the raven and Sansa is a politician now and she's off to KL... Rhaegal getting hit surprised me.. Was not ready for  that... They shouldve waited before heading off.. Rested the men and dragons got more info.. But Jon couldn't say no because he was trying to prove to Dany's insecure self that he was loyal... Both of them have faults.. Both have good qualities that are similar.. The diff to me is even tho both tend to jump before looking at times... Dany has a destructive streak in her( created from her hard life I'd wager) where Jon is a bit more self-sacrificing.. And if she burns KL to the ground..( which she kinds wanted to do from the jump more or less)  Well then in the end she didn't deserve the throne whether she gets it or not

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Drogo said:

His father was Daenerys' father's son.

His claim is considered stronger due to his being the eldest trueborn male offspring (of the King's eldest trueborn male offspring.) 

So actually there is quite a bit of penis-favoring involved. 

Yes, you are right, I messed that up. 

But, it comes down to Rhaegar being born before her.  If Jon were a woman, she would still be ahead of Dany in the line of succession.  Likewise, if Dany were a man, he would still be behind Jon

[Soup333]

I normally don’t post here but I have a question. Did Jon tell Dany he loved her or it was just him saying he’s her queen. 

Also, fuck Sansa. 

[MarySNJ]

22 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. They loathe each other so much they're going to be antagonistic even when one of them is making reasonable requests. 

I really don’t understand Sansa’s antipathy. After ALL of what they faced, how could she doubt that Dany was trying to do the right thing for the whole of Westeros?  As much as I have sympathized with the character I don’t think what she’s doing in regard to Dany is reasonable. Okay, yes, the soldiers are battle weary, but the way she said she would have to ask the commanders sounded more like “never” to me and I would guess to Dany as well. Jon seemed to pick up on it as well which is why he made an executive decision to prepare the troops to go South. 

And Arya: “ She not one of us.” Yeesh. Nevertheless, Dany came to the aid of the North. 

[Kanner]

I may feel differently when I see them burning but at this moment I want Dany to burn it all. Hence why I am not the ruler of anything. 

Wow. They couldn't have Jon touch Ghost once?

Dany part of the reason you fell in love with Jon was that he was honest and didn't play games. You can't ask that of him. 

At least marriage was mentioned again. The reason why it wouldn't work was not convincing.

I understand the Starks got a rude awaking about playing the game but to have basically Cersei words to Joffrey come out of their mouths doesn't seem like something good.  Everyone who is not us is an enemy - she is one of us.

I felt really bad for Dany sitting by herself but then I thought why doesn't she try to mingle.

I am reserving judgement about Jaime for now. Though, I do agree with someone up thread who mentioned he doesn't feel he deserves happiness and definitely not Brienne.

Jon is my favorite but I am not crazy about how the show is portraying women in power. 

It looks like at the moment Cersei and Euron have the strongest relationship. How depressing. I forgot Sam and Gilly. Thanks MARYSNJ

Edited May 6, 2019 by Kanner
Other couples exist

[Growsonwalls]

You know not for nothing but if anyone's been following the recent press about the British Royal Family the rumor is that the rift between William and Harry is that William has started to "act like a king" and wants Harry to defer to him and Harry is having a hard time adjusting. 

For the same reasons apparently Charles has always been quite distant from his siblings.

Dany wants Jon to defer to her but it's sort of impossible now that everyone knows about the true birth order and thinks Dany should defer to Jon. True love is not really possible among royalty ... Status and power always get in the way. 

[Leroux]

35 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

No, she really hasn’t. There’s nothing in the lead up that she suggests that she’s mad. Also, Sansa is just spiteful. 

And shouldn’t everyone be worried about Jon going mad? He is after all a Targ. This show. 

Jon may be a half-Targaryen but he has been raised by Ned Stark and IMO that is what makes the whole difference. 

In that celebration scene I originally thought that Daenerys finally was coming to the realization that the people around Jon loves him and that he would be a wonderful king right along her, but in reality what she was thinking probably was "why can't they love me" 

Here we are trying to pass the blame on Jon, Sansa, Sam, Tyrion, Varys, Bran, everyone but the one who can make all this go away: Daenerys. 

Let it be no secret, proclaim loud and proud Jon's heritage and your willingness to share with him and rule together, problem solved. Daenerys blind ambition is nobody's fault but hers and hers alone, 

[cambridgeguy]

For all of their faults Tyrion and Jaime actually have a strong sibling relationship and you believe they won't sell each other out.  The Starks should take notes. 

I hear that there's this novel military tactic called scouting ahead.  Dragonstone is the most obvious place for Dany to go and it's very close to KL - why wouldn't you suspect a trap, especially when you apparently left no one behind to watch it when you went North?

[Soup333]

Shouldn’t Euron be putting two and two together about Cersei’s pregnancy? How would Tyrion know she’s pregnant if the child was really his? 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Soup333

[tennisgurl]

I just dont know what is going to happen with Dany at this point, and I dont think I will like it. Yeah Dany can be ruthless and smug about her victories, but she is also a character I've rooted for since the first season, even when she got on my nerves. Now they seem to be deliberately manipulating things so we can be the final boss, by taking away everything she loves and having her be betrayed over and over? The fuck? I know this show has never been about traditional narratives, but what was the point of all our time with Dany off in her own plot in a different location with her whole own cast if it ends like this?!

Danys big problem now seems to be that she dislikes the idea of sharing power, which will end up being her downfall. I think they could use that and make it work for her character (having been used and abused by her brother and dealing with so many awful people who tried to control her and her dragon babies, she desperately holds onto power and struggles to trust people after being betrayed many times), but its really not. They are just moving things together to make her snap and go all "burn them all!" or something. I hope I am wrong and they have another plan for her though, even if its not the Iron Throne. 

Jon, give your wolf a pat on the head damn it! Poor poor Ghost and his sad little whimpers. Someone give that direworlf a treat and a tummy run you monsters!

Brienne and Jaimie finally get together, and he runs off on a suicidal charge to probably kill his crazy sister. Freaking typical. I get that he is all angsty and feels like he probably has to stop her and he supported her for too long and he has made awful life choices and cant deserve happiness, but...Brienne was crying! Crying!

[GodsBeloved]

18 minutes ago, Jenesis said:

Very quick comment right now.

Am I going crazy? Why does Dany and everyone act like her helping against the NK is some favor? If she wants people to bow, she needs to protect them.

That’s what I kept saying. The NK was a common enemy. He was as much an enemy to Winterfell/the North as he was to the realm that Danny says is hers, which means he’s her enemy too.

[JennyMominFL]

2 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I normally don’t post here but I have a question. Did Jon tell Dany he loved her or it was just him saying she’s his queen?

Also, shouldn’t Euron be putting two and two together about Cersei’s pregnancy? How would Tyrion know she’s pregnant if the child was really his? 

He has more to gain by pretending its his than by calling her out.

[lvbalgurl]

Sigh...RIP Missandei and Rhaegal.

I don't know what more Cersei has to do to convince Tyrion that she is, in fact, a monster.  The Cersei who "loved her kids" has been dead for quite some time.  I sure hope the point has been driven home now.

That said, if the choice to rule is between the megalomaniac who rides a dragon and the one who doesn't, yeah, I'll pass on both.  I think Daenerys lost me for good when she asked Jon to deny who he was so that she could rule unchallenged, when Jon continues to tell her that he doesn't even want the IT, nor did he want King in the North.

Sansa was completely reasonable about postponing things til the soldiers had time to recuperate and the wounded had time to get healthy.  That's basic common sense which Daenerys chose to ignore b/c she HAS to take the IT NOWNOWNOW and also b/c it came from Sansa.  And she wonders why she, and now Arya, don't trust her.

I love that Sansa told Tyrion about Jon.  Sansa's loyalty is to the North first, just as Varys' is to the realm.  Both have been really clear about that, and they each have come to the conclusion that Jon would be a better ruler than Daenerys or Cersei.  And they're right.  Mostly b/c he's not a megalomaniac.  

As an aside, I really, really want Sansa/Tyrion.  I have no idea if this is where the show is headed but I'd friggin love it.

Edited May 6, 2019 by lvbalgurl

[Law Mom]

I thought he was pretty brave of Tyrion to walk up to the gate to talk to Cersei directly. I doubt he meant it when he told Cersei she’s not a monster. It’s called diplomacy. No chance it would work, but at least he tried. On the other hand, his question to Brienne about being a virgin was pretty rude, if you ask me.

I thought Dany was clever to name Gendry a lord at that moment. The people needed something uplifting and she gave it to them. I do think her descent into madness has been a long time coming. In the beginning when she walked out of the flames, she gave people a choice—follow her or leave. That evolved into follow her or burn. Her increasing threats to everyone that they better not betray her or else make her seem unhinged. And now ordering Jon to lie to his family? That’s not within the authority of a ruler. Also, remember that even though she did not claim the throne until after Viserys died, she was told since she was little that he was the rightful heir, so the family claim really has been there for her whole life. Her sense of entitlement grows stronger by the minute and that means she won’t win.

Sansa seems to be the only one who actually listens to her advisors. I respect someone who says “I don’t know but I’ll find out.” Maybe she should be queen.

I’m in the camp that Jaime left to stop Cersei, not join her. He can’t be ok with the Bronn hit.

The funeral scene at the beginning had me sobbing. The drunken sex scenes had me smiling. The dragon death had me gasping. Every scene evoked some kind of emotion. Great job, show.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, MarySNJ said:

I really don’t understand Sansa’s antipathy. After ALL of what they faced, how could she doubt that Dany was trying to do the right thing for the whole of Westeros?  As much as I have sympathized with the character I don’t think what she’s doing in regard to Dany is reasonable. Okay, yes, the soldiers are battle weary, but the way she said she would have to ask the commanders sounded more like “never” to me and I would guess to Dany as well. Jon seemed to pick up on it as well which is why he made an executive decision to prepare the troops to go South. 

And Arya: “ She not one of us.” Yeesh. Nevertheless, Dany came to the aid of the North. 

Sansa is all about Sansa.  Always has been.  When did she ever make a sacrifice for anybody or anything? 

She brought on her own suffering through her own vanity and lies.  If she told the truth on the Kings road about Joffrey and Arya, her betrothal to that monster would he been dissolved and they would have sent her back to Winterfell.

If she told the truth about Littlefinger to the nobles in the Vale, she wouldn't have ended up being tortured by Ramsay.

She is devious and selfish, just like LF, Cersei and Ramsay.  She is just not as strong as them.

[Lemuria]

10 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Oh and 3) Not looking forward to the inevitable “wah Sansa broke her word right away” complaints even though it was absurd for Dany to ask Jon to keep such a huge secret (and pretend it was out of love for him), and absurd for Jon to ask his sisters (cousins) to keep such a huge secret and make them swear without knowing what they were swearing to. Arya doesn’t give a shit because all she cares about now is her list. Sansa is still looking at the bigger picture when almost no one else (except Varys) is. 

Well, she did, didn't she?  D&D may thing that being honorable is stupid but they're wrong.  Being Machiavellian with your enemies is one thing, but playing that game with family, friends, supporters and people you want as allies ends up being self-defeating.  No one will ally with you or make a treaty with you if they cannot count on you to honor your word.  And they will be more likely to betray you if they think you wouldn't hesitate to betray them.

Sansa has never looked at the bigger picture and she still isn't.  She doesn't care if the North is independent if the Northern lords decide to acclaim Manderley as King.  She was thinking of getting what she wants:  to rule in the North.  And she didn't care if she lied and betrayed Jon's trust to do it.

It was not absurd for Jon to ask Sansa and Arya to keep the secret.  He doesn't want the Iron Throne and so, for him, there is no point in making it public.  And look, both Arya and Bran, as well as Sam, have been able to keep the secret so far.  Only Sansa, with her "irrepressible ambition and desire to rule," (and her dislike of Dany) promised to keep it and then couldn't break it fast enough.

Proving also that Jon doesn't really mean anything to her. 

[seawind]

48 minutes ago, mikal768 said:

Small FYI the ambush happened off dragonstone not at Kings landing 

AAAGGHHH see I'm so mad I can't even get my castles right!

[MarySNJ]

5 minutes ago, Kanner said:

It looks like at the moment Cersei and Euron have the strongest relationship. How depressing.

Sam and Gilly have a strong relationship and aren’t homicidal and evil, so there’s that. 

[UNOSEZ]

43 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Did anyone else's breath catch when Arya said she had no intentions of returning to Winterfell? Not that I'm predicting she'll die, but damm, she's not going to see her family again? 

Wouldn't you think Sansa's time with Littlefinger would've made her smarter? Lord Baelish was the master of sitting on information until he could best use it to his advantage. Sansa blabbing Jon's secret two seconds after he told her was not very prudent. Especially when it was clear the Dragon Queen's sanity was hanging by a thread. 

My prediction is on Varys selling Dany out. There's no way Euron just happened upon her fleet. He was definitely tipped off. 

Arya and the Hound, back on the road again? I'm here for it. 

I'm heartbroken for Greyworm. 

I dunno how vary would tipped off euron.. Besides Dany's army is Jon's army.. So if he wanted Jon to win he'd still need the army intact... So I think it was just sound strategy... They knew she'd go back there before making way to KL so they waited... 

As for Sansa.. Of course she blabbed she doesn't trust Dany.. Also the info is time sensitive.. Everyone was about to leave to take KL once she wins.. That's it she's on the throne ppl aren't gonna wanna fight another war for the IT... Also Jon doesn't want it and has been going out of his way to side with Dany.. Which means The North doesn't stay independent.. Also. I think Sansa knows tyrion has feelings for her( she may have for him now)  so she was appealing to a man  who cares for her and finally she's noticed Dany being at odds with tyrion and his fear of her.. So she pressed that button as well.. All in all Sansa was right all the way around this week

[onyxrose81]

Just now, Law Mom said:

Sansa seems to be the only one who actually listens to her advisors. I respect someone who says “I don’t know but I’ll find out.” Maybe she should be queen.

Dany has listened to her advisors and that’s the problem. She would already be sitting her ass on the throne if she went with her gut or listened to Yara and Olenna.  But she listened to men and has paid the price. 

[Growsonwalls]

Just now, MarySNJ said:

Sam and Gilly have a strong relationship and aren’t homicidal and evil, so there’s that. 

Tormund seems pretty happy with the chick he picked up too.

[QuantumMechanic]

58 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

Dany being judged and convicted anyway might as well fuck shit up. Jon has a penis so he should rule is bullshit. 

Rheagar was older than Dany so Rheagar and his children would always be ahead of Dany in the line of succession regardless of their gender.