S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[LanceM]

1 minute ago, ulkis said:

Varys and Dany said it. He could say "this is my queen/I bend the knee" a billion times but people would still look to him, because he was raised in Westeros, because he's a man, because he has the better claim, even if they were married.

Dany restrained herself from burning Euron and the ships, so it shows she does have self-control.

It's bittersweet, but I got what I wanted with Jaime and Brienne.

It is not that Dany restrianed herself it is more like she looked at her watch and saw there was only 5 minutes left in the episode so she postponed burning his ships until next week. lol

[Law Mom]

30 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

Even Ned knew some secrets need to be kept. Look at what's already happening. It doesn't matter what Jon wants. 

When Ned left for KL, he told Jon he would tel him the truth about his parentage the next time they saw each other. Which of course never happened. I wonder what the purpose of telling him would have been.

[TobinAlbers]

9 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Dany restrained herself from burning Euron and the ships, so it shows she does have self-control.

If there was ever a time for Dany to have lost her shit and burned through those ships, it was then. Open war combat with armed forces and not civilians. I wouldn't have blamed her. I figured the only reason why she didn't risk it was because she wouldn't rashly put Drogon at risk. Although all she had to do was circle around to their backs and Dracarys them into oblivion.

But there brings up a good point- if Dany lost Drogon what would happen? How would she lead and gain her claim to the IT? These are the things she should be realizing - that she's a Queen and leader without her dragons or she should be and what does that look like for her?

Edited May 6, 2019 by TobinAlbers

[Drogo]

5 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Thank you.. I've been reading posts like the north would be dead if it wasn't for Dany... Like the wildlings and northern weren't fighting and dying too.. And if she went and subjugated KL while the north had to fight the NK... Everyone would die because they wouldn't have the tools to kill the wights or the NK... After he was done decimating the North

If my neighbor helped me extinguish the flames on my burning house, should I be grateful? Or should I say he had to do it, else the flames would have eventually reached his house too? 

Because honestly my neighbors would hop into their respective SUVs and say "Fuck your problems."

[Soup333]

2 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Guys, I am just really sad about Missandei. I can be all "such and such was right and such and such is an idiot" later, I am just super sad. Not only did Missandei die, she died as one of the only really decent people left on this show, who just wanted to go back to her nice island home to be with Grey Worm, and now she cant even have that, because she was cruelly executed by some asshole on a power trip all so that her bestie/queen can pushed further towards the edge. 

She and Grey Worm deserved better. 

I’m right here with you. She was a treasure. 

Sansa didn’t know Dany asked Jon not to tell so she was *almost immediately* betraying his trust by telling Tyrion. Her line to the Hound about Little Finger and Ramsey struck me. I could never fully trust her motives and honestly I’m over her ENTIRE character. 

Bran seems rather pointless. Just a human history book now? 

Ghost, Rhaegal and Missandei deserved better. Rhaegal at least got some love from his mother before the fatal flight. Jon couldn’t take the time to pet his wolf for the last time?  

If I lost almost everyone who cared for me and half my armies and my claim to the throne I’d be Mad Queen Bitch too. 

[Ambrosefolly]

4 minutes ago, Law Mom said:

When Ned left for KL, he told Jon he would tel him the truth about his parentage the next time they saw each other. Which of course never happened. I wonder what the purpose of telling him would have been.

That Jon would know his true mother.

[Lemuria]

4 minutes ago, Law Mom said:

When Ned left for KL, he told Jon he would tel him the truth about his parentage the next time they saw each other. Which of course never happened. I wonder what the purpose of telling him would have been.

He would have told Jon, since it was obvious that Jon really wanted to know (especially if his mother cared for him at all), because by then Jon would have taken the Black and thus was no longer a threat or a candidate for the throne.  So the secret could come out.  (And it certainly would have changed Jon's relationship with Thorne!)

[MissL]

7 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Dany restrained herself from burning Euron and the ships, so it shows she does have self-control.

I don’t think she restrained herself. I think she retreated because it was too dangerous for Drogon. I guess...she had enough restraint to protect him.  The ships were metal plated on top of having the dragon spears weren’t they? Unless I saw that wrong?

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Drogo said:

If my neighbor helped me extinguish the flames on my burning house, should I be grateful? Or should I say he had to do it, else the flames would have eventually reached his house too? 

True, but in this case "being grateful" seems to mean you have to give them ownership of your house because they helped you save it.

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, Law Mom said:

When Ned left for KL, he told Jon he would tel him the truth about his parentage the next time they saw each other. Which of course never happened. I wonder what the purpose of telling him would have been.

None at that point, with Jon a sworn brother of the Night’s Watch. But it might have meant something to Jon knowing that his mother and father loved each other and it was not kidnapping and rape, and that his mother loved Jon and her last act was to protect him.

Edited May 6, 2019 by MarySNJ

[Drogo]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

True, but in this case "being grateful" seems to mean you have to give them ownership of your house because they helped you save it.

If that's what I promised him after he'd started helping me, yes- as the KiTN did with Daenerys.

[UNOSEZ]

53 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Why wont anyone just say "hey Jon and Dany, you are both clearly like each other, arent too upset by the incest thing, have temperaments that balance each other, and between the two of you have a massive ass army and tons of loyal advisers and people to follow you, and both have claims, so maybe you should, gee I dont know, get married and rule as co rulers!?! Its not that complicated guys! Just make another stupid uncomfortable chair and stick it next to the other one, anything to end this game of musical chairs from Hell!!!"?!?

Davros, we need you and your common sense right the fuck now! 

In theory that makes sense.. But in all honesty he would still be pushed forward... He's a battle tested war hero... She burns ppl alive with dragons... He was raised in the north she was raised "somewhere out there" he's a HE... The other lords wouldnt chafe as much under him as a woman... Ppl are naturally drawn to him as a leader.. She's positioned herself as a savior... So he's much more relatable.. He's got the better backstory... Secret love child of two great houses raised as a bastard ( so he's less arrogant than those raised thinking they were nobles)  man of the night's watch who was killed and brought back to life... Hes someone the north would have no problem bending the knee for.. She saw it all in the food hall so add all that plus by the laws and customs of the land that she herself has brought up.. He has a better claim... So it would never be equal... 

[Soup333]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

True, but in this case "being grateful" seems to mean you have to give them ownership of your house because they helped you save it.

Those are the rules of the HOA though. 

[Lady Iris]

I hate Sansa soooo much. That, flames, flames from the sides of my face, breathless, heaving breaths. 

[MarySNJ]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

True, but in this case "being grateful" seems to mean you have to give them ownership of your house because they helped you save it.

Did Dany demand Winterfell for herself? I didn’t hear that part. 

I think it’s more like, you need to pay your taxes to pay for the services you’re receiving. 

[UNOSEZ]

6 minutes ago, Drogo said:

If my neighbor helped me extinguish the flames on my burning house, should I be grateful? Or should I say he had to do it, else the flames would have eventually reached his house too? 

Because honestly my neighbors would hop into their respective SUVs and say "Fuck your problems."

But ppl did thank her.. She's yet to say thank you to the other ppl who fought other than giving Gendry storm's end( which was  political albeit gracious move)  she talks about her losses as if only her ppl died

[Vella]

1 minute ago, UNOSEZ said:

But ppl did thank her.. She's yet to say thank you to the other ppl who fought other than giving Gendry storm's end( which was  political albeit gracious move)  she talks about her losses as if only her ppl died

She publicly toasted to Arya and called her the hero of Winterfell at the celebration. That's a pretty good thank you.

[Drogo]

Just now, UNOSEZ said:

But ppl did thank her.. She's yet to say thank you to the other ppl who fought other than giving Gendry storm's end( which was  political albeit gracious move)  she talks about her losses as if only her ppl died

Thank her while plotting to reneg on their brother/King's promise to bend the knee to her, a promise made in the midst of receiving her very necessary assistance.

[FishyJoe]

So noone is smart enough to suggest that the dragons grab a big bag of rocks and drop them from high altitude? Or are the dragons too stupid to do this?

[Drogo]

 I'm not recalling a time where Daenerys acted as if only her people had died. 

[Leroux]

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

37 minutes ago, GraceK said:

She doesn’t trust SANSA. That’s the issue. Sansa has been a bitch to her from the beginning, and based in this episode? Danys right. Dany asked Jon to hide his parentage because she knows that SANSA will try to use it to foster discord and conflict. She knows that SANSA will use this information to try to put Jon on the throne against his will and forment rebellion and conflict between them. And she was right. After all Dany has done for the realm, Sansa still hates her. She even knows it’s irrational, she just hates her. She doesn’t want to help, she doesn’t want to be allies, and she doesn’t want Jon to honor his promise to her. She looks  at her  dragons and says “ why her” petulantly. When Dany makes Gendry a lord, Sansa is pissed. She’s even mad that Arya respects the fact that Jon needed her dragons and armies. Sansa just hates her, and it’s irrational, and as soon as she finds out about Jon, she tells Tyrion, and According to the writers, she knows the consequences. She knows it’s gonna get around. She has no respect for Jon’s feelings, or what he wants or anything. Honestly? It’s like she doesn’t love him at all, because if she did, she wouldn’t treat him like he doesn’t matter. And Dany KNOWS all this. She sees right through Sansa. She tells Jon that Sansa is not the innocent little sister he thinks she is. Everyone calls Sansa out  on her bullshit this episode and STILL Dany is the bad guy?

Dany should have never asked Jon to hide the truth of his birth to anyone, let alone his sisters. Period. 

The only who benefits from hiding the truth is Daenerys, this lie would make her claim uncontested. Why does Jon have to lie, if she loves him truly, why would she wanted him to lie? 

Wouldn't it be better for the whole Targaryen line to let everybody know that Rhaegal was not a rapist who kidnapped Lyanna, but hat he truly loved her and married her? Wouldn't it be best for the realm to know that Robert's rebellion was based on a lie? Wouldn't it be better for Jon that he acknowledges his real parents but still gets to call himself Ned Stark son? That Jon and she get to be the new face of the Targaryen line together? 

The only reason why Daenerys wanted Jon to swear everyone to secrecy was so she could be the only ruler, Jon loves her blindly so he, of course, can't see how mess up this is, the woman you love is asking you to live the rest of your life hiding your true identity because she can't share the power. The woman who says she loves you wants to base the future of your relationship based on a lie.

That to me is the real tragedy of this episode. 

[ulkis]

14 minutes ago, MissL said:

I don’t think she restrained herself. I think she retreated because it was too dangerous for Drogon. I guess...she had enough restraint to protect him.  The ships were metal plated on top of having the dragon spears weren’t they? Unless I saw that wrong?

i don't know, but if that was what was stopping her why was she even flying towards the boat in the first place? I thought she was gonna tell the dragon to shoot fire but then she turned around. I don't get why they didn't shoot at her then as well.

[Bryce Lynch]

While Cersei, once again, outwitted her enemies, I think she made a mistake by killing Missandei.  She was a valuable hostage.  Would Grey Worm and Dany be prepared to burn down KL with her as a captive?

Now, Dany and Grey Worm are both going to be in kill Cersei suicide mission mode.  

It is similar to Joffrey killing Ned. 

[Soup333]

2 minutes ago, Leroux said:

Dany should have never asked Jon to hide the truth of his birth to anyone, let alone his sisters. Period. 

This actually doesn’t matter as far as Sansa is concerned because she didn’t know that Dany asked Jon not to tell her. All she knows is that her brother swore her to secrecy and she agreed to it and then went back on that within 24 hours, probably less. 

Dany’s reasons are irrelevant as far as the conversation between the siblings. 

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, onyxrose81 said:

Dany has listened to her advisors and that’s the problem. She would already be sitting her ass on the throne if she went with her gut or listened to Yara and Olenna.  But she listened to men and has paid the price. 

And then the Night king would rolled up at the red keep with a few million ppl and no one would had a clue how to stop him... And do you wanna fight zombie Arya or Zombie Tormund?? 

[BitterApple]

One thing I'm confused on is when Varys and Tyrion did an about-face and decided Dany isn't the right leader for the Kingdoms?

Up until this point, she's listened to her advisors, refrained from burning KL for the sake of sparing innocents, gave the Tarlys several chances to surrender before roasting them, lost a dragon to bail Jon out, helped the North defeat the NK, actively fought in that battle and sat by quietly while Tormund gave Jon credit for the win. It was also Dany who reminded everyone that Arya won the war.

They act like they're relieved to have Jon as a replacement and I can't figure out where it's coming from. Or is it just poorly rushed writing?

[TobinAlbers]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It is similar to Joffrey killing Ned. 

Yup, totally shades of Joffrey and Ned. Back then Cersei knew what a blunder test was. Now, she's so far gone she's fine with lighting the match and watching the world burn. 

[quarks]

HBO! SOME OF US ARE ONLY WATCHING THIS SHOW FOR THE DRAGONS! STOP KILLING THEM OFF!

(sobs)

[ulkis]

40 minutes ago, Vella said:

I don't think so. I think Sansa is flat out done being ruled by an outsider. To her, Jon is family, she'll bend the knee to him, as will other Northerners, but they are DONE letting outsiders rule them.

Dany was right. All this does is sow discontent and division. Why does he contribute to it? Is it because that perhaps he DOES want something for himself?

He knows his rightful name, he knows he's the rightful heir. I think that knowledge changed him in ways that he could ignore before "I don't want to rule" but is finding harder now.

Look at how Gendry physically changed when Dany legitimized him, gave him the Baratheon name and Storm's End. The effect of being given something you didn't know you wanted until it was in your hands. It's a powerful thing, especially when someone else has something that is rightfully YOURS.

I think Jon is the same. He might be fighting it and trying to deny it, but I think he told Sansa precisely because he does want the news out. And he knew of Sansa and Arya that Sansa would spill before the sun set.

I just want the show to stop dicking around and admit it.

I don't think Jon wants it though. The North, yes. All of the seven kingdoms, no.

[hypnotoad]

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she was instantly more loyal to her golden lion Joffrey.

I hated that Sansa stuff but to be fair she was a girl with girlish ideas about marrying a prince or at least a lord. Ya know? She was raised to believe in that stuff. She immediately had this romantic view - stars in her eyes - childish ideals about Joffrey. She was a kid.

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While Cersei, once again, outwitted her enemies, I think she made a mistake by killing Missandei.  She was a valuable hostage.

And I am over Cersei winning. Way over it. I'd love to know how Urine managed to find Missandei in the water. Though I knew either she or Grey Worm would die the minute they talked about what would happen after Dany took the IT. Never talk about retirement that early when there is a lot more bloodshed to come!

I just wasn't terribly impressed with this episode.

It cracks me up that I care so much about CGI creatures. HATED losing another dragon. Hated. Especially to that iron born Captain Jack wannabe. Uggghh.

[Scaeva]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

Sam shouldn't even be alive...he's not homicidal and evil, just weak. So Sam, who has literally done nothing but ride to town with dividing news and be a BFF gets the wife and happy ending, and Greyworm who has been tortured all his life and turned into a weapon does not?!   O.k....I get everyone will not get a happy ending, but he certainly earned one.

Sam is the one who learned how to defeat the White Walkers. 

Greyworm could have cut down 10,000 zombies in battle single-handed and Sam still has contributed more. Sam, like John, has also been dealing with the real threat to the Seven Kingdoms for years. Greyworm, by virtue of being from Essos, has not.

That isn't to say that Greyworm doesn't deserve a happy ending, just that you're being very unfair to Sam. 

This also has never been a series where characters necessarily get what they deserve. Thank the Seven for that, because it would be dull otherwise.

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Actually, Cersei's death belongs to Sansa.  I'm ready for someone to take Euron out of the game.

No, it doesn’t. It always belonged to Jaime and/or Tyrion.

[Constantinople]

32 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

If there was ever a time for Dany to have lost her shit and burned through those ships, it was then. Open war combat with armed forces and not civilians. I wouldn't have blamed her. I figured the only reason why she didn't risk it was because she wouldn't rashly put Drogon at risk. Although all she had to do was circle around to their backs and Dracarys them into oblivion.

Between that and Euron's cloak of invisibility -- he must be a secret Romulan -- I'm really getting sick of this show.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Vella said:

There is NO way Jon does not want to be King.

He does. He cannot admit it to himself or anyone else, but Dany was 100% right when she said that it didn't matter, once it got out, it would go a certain way.

Yet he STILL tells Sansa and Arya, mere MOMENTS after both have sniffed their noses and said "she's not from here, you are".  Especially knowing the fractious relationship between Sansa and Dany and yet he still tells them. He knows Sansa will fight tooth and nail to keep the North free. He KNOWS this and still tells her. Sansa will do what she believes is best for herself and the North, and that's not letting an outsider rule. Period. She has always been clear about the end goal.

But he STILL told her.  Why? This HUGE revelation.  Once again, Dany knew better. After everything Sansa had lived through, there was NO WAY she'd keep quiet.

And Jon must know that the person who loses is Dany. Each time, it's her. Not him. They both know that.

So he wants to be King. He does. If he didn't, he'd keep his fucking trap shut. Simple as that.

And I want for SOMEONE to fucking call him out on that.

Whatever the ramifications... I'm not sitting on that secret to my siblings.. Especially when I know someone else has that info and it could find its way out... Somehow Dany knew Gendry was Robert's bastard... Someone could eventually blab about him.. So I'm not saying ur wrong.. But the show has been pretty consistent with hoisting leadership on Jon.. Not him chasing it.. Forget DNA... He's Ned Stark's son... No way he wasn't telling them

[lmsweb]

I want Cersei's wardrobe. And Sansa's.

I have a feeling Arya is not headed to KL to kill Cersei. I think she has a new target now. She seemed resigned to not returning to Winterfell when she left with the Hound. And I'm not sure that is because she plans on running off with Gendry at the end of the show. She did a LOT of face watching in that war council scene - most of it directed at Daeny. And we all know how good she is at the Game of Faces.

While I do feel Sansa's....snarkiness, is over the top at times, in theory, she is not wrong in her views. Resting the troops was reasonable (never mind giving one of the two dragons you have left a little time to heal the gaping holes in his wings), as was her response of checking with the officers. Last time I checked, some of those troops still left are Dany's - there were still some Dothraki and Unsullied left over.

Loved the interaction with Sansa and Tyrion. I don't think she intended to blurt out the news about Jon. It was when she realized that even Tyrion is afraid of Dany that she made the decision. She is still loyal to Jon.

Rhagel dying killed me. Worse than most of the deaths last week. I did NOT see that coming at all. We are now down to one dragon facing down a shit ton of ballistics that are clearly very effective. I predict Drogon to bite it before the end. Glad that Ghost got to head north for some well deserved retirement. And as much as I see people complaining about Jon's interaction with Ghost, Ghost has interacted with or fought beside most of the main characters over the last few seasons. I am going fan wank that he and Tormund will have many adventures in the North for years to come.

[LittleIggy]

Vomiting is celebrating! Thanks, Tormund. Good to know! 😆

[Vella]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

One thing I'm confused on is when Varys and Tyrion did an about-face and decided Dany isn't the right leader for the Kingdoms?

Up until this point, she's listened to her advisors, refrained from burning KL for the sake of sparing innocents, gave the Tarlys several chances to surrender before roasting them, lost a dragon to bail Jon out, helped the North defeat the NK, actively fought in that battle and sat by quietly while Tormund gave Jon credit for the win. It was also Dany who reminded everyone that Arya won the war.

They act like they're relieved to have Jon as a replacement and I can't figure out where it's coming from. Or is it just poorly rushed writing?

YES. All of this.  The look on her face when Tormund bragged about Jon doing things that Dany had been doing all along. Oof. What woman didn't feel that gut punch?  Watching a man get praised and cheered for things she did long before him. And Jon only got on the dragon because Dany offered it to him.

It reminds me of when Sam told Jon he read about Jon's true lineage at the Citadel, when it was GILLY who read about it. Sam ignored it and stomped off.  Suddenly it was "I read about it" when it wasn't him. It was Gilly.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Tipsy Brienne looking at Jaime like he was a snack.

Tormund solidly cockblocked by Jaime. Oh well.

Lol, one night with Arya and Gendry was sprung. Sounds like maybe Arya has realized she doesn't really swing that way.

OMG, why didn't they send scouts/spies ahead? How could they not have seen that attack coming? (Or why didn't Bran see it? 🤔)

Poor Brienne. Jaime was going to ghost her to get back to his one true love. Maybe she can still catch Tormund if he hasn't gotten too far away already

I feel like Dany's going to get Julius Caesared, Ides of March-style.

Okay, Arya, any time now. Cersei desperately needs killing. Bring the pain, please.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Whatever the ramifications... I'm not sitting on that secret to my siblings.. Especially when I know someone else has that info and it could find its way out... Somehow Dany knew Gendry was Robert's bastard... Someone could eventually blab about him.. So I'm not saying ur wrong.. But the show has been pretty consistent with hoisting leadership on Jon.. Not him chasing it.. Forget DNA... He's Ned Stark's son... No way he wasn't telling them

But, they were not Jon's siblings.  They are his cousins and he should know Sansa could not be trusted with that information.

Gendry didn't hide his lineage.  When Davos told him to tell Jon his name was Clovis, he instead introduced himself as Gendry, Robert Baratheon's bastard.

[KatWay]

I think this is heading down a more bitter than sweet path if this continues.

Sansa can't be trusted. She's been shaped and molded in her way of thinking and acting by Littlefinger and Cersei, two of the worst people on this show. And she never had the Stark code of honor in the first place. It's an interesting parallel to the first season, Sansa not being able to keep a secret. I'm sure she's thinking a few steps ahead...but for what outcome? Sansa is looking out for herself/her own and nobody else at this point. Dany hasn't done anything to her (yet) but Sansa dislikes her cause she's threatening them in a way and she's already plotting to get rid of her.

If I were Tyrion I wouldn't be so sure to trust her either. Sansa cares about the North and he's not a part of that.

Dany has always had an impulsive streak and she's always been capable of committing atrocities in the name of conquest, so I wouldn't be surprised to see her burn down KL in the next episode. Which will put her in direct conflict with Jon. I don't know if it'll feel earned...she's done awful stuff before on the show but it was always glossed over or painted as a badass hero moment. There's a bit of a disconnect here if we're meant to now see it lead up to mad queen Dany (if that's happening).

[Minneapple]

41 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

If there was ever a time for Dany to have lost her shit and burned through those ships, it was then. Open war combat with armed forces and not civilians. I wouldn't have blamed her. I figured the only reason why she didn't risk it was because she wouldn't rashly put Drogon at risk. Although all she had to do was circle around to their backs and Dracarys them into oblivion.

It was a bit puzzling that she didn't go all Fire and Blood right there. I mean all the arrows were missing Drogon, one good dracarys would have finished them off and then we could all cheer the death of Euron with no civilian casualties and no one wondering if Dany is losing her sanity.

[lmsweb]

Almost forgot - those wondering about a mole? Qyburn has already proven his little birds are just as if not more effective than Varys's were. I don't think one of the main characters is a mole, I think it's just the same secret spy service they've been using for the entire series.

[CatWarmer]

In general I found the episode to be disappointing, especially after last week.

But one thought did cross my mind. If Jamie takes out Cersei and dies in the process, and Tyrion dies or has sworn off women anyway, there still could be a new little Lannister brewing in Winterfell.  All the chat a couple of weeks ago about Arya being pregnant with Gendry’s baby...how about Brienne?

[Bali]

Well, I don't buy the Mad Queen shit they've tried to sell me. Well, at least Mad as in Crazy. But I am fully onboard with Pissed Off Queen now. She is going to have to burn KL to get rid of Cersei. She could have done that 2 Seasons ago. I get Don't expect a Happy Ending. I did expect a logical one. And this one isn't panning out.

[Scaeva]

1 hour ago, CletusMusashi said:

Euron is... interesting. But his ability to target and kidnap whichever individual he specifically targets is pretty ridiculous. Does he have some kind of supernatural bounty-hunter training or something?

The show, the further it has deviated from it's inspiration, the more it has given villains unearned wins for the sake of drama.

The demise of both Ned & Robb, though shocking, were not completely out of left field. Both characters had previously made key mistakes that directly led to their deaths.

Dany not being able to see Euron's fleet - from the air of all things - before it fired a surprise killshot was complete nonsense. It's the sort of aggravating hand-waving the show writers keep doing just for the sake of a twist. It's Ramsay and his 20 good men all over again.

The difference is Ned & Robb's deaths were penned by Martin, who is evidently a lot more skilled then the people writing this TV show.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, MarySNJ said:

And one more thing, what does Sansa think will happen to the North if Cersei defeats Dany? Will Cersei let the rebellious Northerners remain independent? Will she let the Starks keep Winterfell and let Sansa keep her head? Not likely. If she has to accept a southern Queen, at least Dany has shown that she gives a damn and actually has a connection with Jon. It’s in Sansa’s interest to see Cersei deposed and a friendly Queen in KL. 

And up until she found out Jon's parentage she was.. She still sent ppl to help.. This has never not been about getting rid of cersei.. If anything those two given the option would've liked to kill cersei before any of this AOTD stuff.. But couldn't because the NK pressed them

[rmontro]

Who was the dead person at the beginning that Arya was mourning?

Daenerys lost Jorah and numerous Unsullied and Dothraki last episode, and this week she loses Rhaegel and Missandei.  Everything is crashing down around her.  I hope she roasts Euron at least.

[ulkis]

3 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

 I think he said the hateful line because he wants Brienne to think he's siding with Cersei. He wants to avoid Brienne going after Cersei with him.  He's worried Cersei would have Brienne killed.

I thought he was telling her that he was no better than Cersei. That's why she knew immediately where he was going and why she told him he was an honorable man and better than his sister; she knew he was going because he didn't think he was any better than Cersei, that's why she said, no you are. And Jaime telling her the things he did and that he was hateful too was him telling her that she was wrong.

Although I don't know why Jaime doesn't think that Cersei won't just have him shot on sight.

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Dany is right that what Jon wants won't matter.  If enough people want him to rule they will fight regardless of what Jon wants.  I don't know why Dany doesn't suggest marriage but I think she's resistant to co-ruling.  Marrying Jon would help win the support of people who are wary of her.  It's a mistake for her not to try to use Jon's linage and popularity among his people through marriage to solidify her position.

I think Dany is worried, and rightfully so, that she would become a mere figurehead even if she married Jon, maybe even especially if she married Jon. Like she said, it doesn't matter what he wants; he could say, "yes, Dany are I are co-rulers"; people would see him as being the true ruler. I think it would only work if Jon stayed in the North.

Edited May 6, 2019 by ulkis

[childeroland]

3 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Who was the dead person at the beginning that Arya was mourning?

Beric Dondarion

[voiceover]

Hilarious (to me) that Jon swears Sansa to secrecy, then he leaves & she jumps on groupchat.

I've watched Gwendoline & Nikolaj do interviews together, and even though I dug the kiss, I wondered how many takes they needed to get through that scene without cracking up.