MarySNJ

I just binged season 1 after being nagged by my kids to give it a try. I enjoyed it but was confused about geography and timeline. While trying to get more information about what happens when, someone pointed out this interactive map on Netflix with a timeline, that I found really helpful. @Sakura12 I don't think those Mages were given a choice or necessarily willing. They're conscripts (slaves?) under the control of a religious fanatic, and judging by the expression of the one Mage's face as she looked down on steaming pile of her fellow conscript's robe and ashes, it was something they were forced to do rather than being willing true believers.

We do know what Grey Worm thinks, at least. He made it clear to Missandei that he wanted to leave “this place” after they helped Daenerys win her throne. Since Grey Worm was named the leader of Daenerys’ forces, I would think he’s calling the shots about where those forces would go next. There’s some question about what would happen to the Dothraki if someone kills their khal. Some say they would seek revenge, while others have say they will follow the victor as the new Khal. That would make Jon their Khal but I don’t think they would be heading North to follow him. Just spitballing, but Daenerys rode Drogon who might be seen as “the Stallion who mounts the world” of prophesy. Since Drogon destroyed the Iron Throne and flew East after Daenerys’ death, maybe the Dothraki figure the iron throne is moot and they should go East too. What I wonder is if the Unsullied and Dothraki learned that Jon had a better claim to the throne than Daenerys. How many of the Lords got the word from Varys before he died? Not that it matters because he’s an admitted regicide and kinslayer, and being the painfully honorable man he is, Jon probably feels like he deserves to be punished. But I wonder what would have happened if Jon had told everyone that he was willing to disclaim the throne for Daenerys when he believed she would be protector of the realm, but had to take action to stop her when she started targeting the innocent and burning cities and basically doing the opposite of protecting the realm. It bothers me that no one at the Lords council ever even considered Jon’s claim and that his parentage never amounted to anything except a wedge between him and Dany and maybe the ability to ride Rhaegal for a brief time.

I think Grey Worm was just ready to fuck off back to Essos, or Naath, or somewhere NOT cold, shitty, backward Westeros. Having to fight a war with the remaining Northmen and their allies would mean sticking around a place they don’t care to be, so let Westerosi justice take care of Jon so the Unsullied can move on to more welcoming and warmer environments. Just my 2 cents...

Oh, I would imagine that Lord Gendry Baratheon of Storms End would head to his family castle to find out what’s there, and how he’s going to convince anyone who owes fealty to the Lord of Storms End will feel about Robert’s no-longer bastard being their liege Lord. I don’t think his first priority would be to his former Flea Bottom denizens when he had a whole kingdom to lord over. From there, it’s a short trip to Kings Landing, after all the damage has been done and the clean up begun and wouldn’t have actually even seen what Daenerys did to the smallfolk there. Also, I would have assumed that Lord Gendry or whoever was castellan of Storms End would have received one of Varys’ dispatches that Jon is actual Aegon Targaryen the true heir to the Seven Kingdoms, and that complicated Daenerys’ position. Jon would not have had any problem with Gendry being Lord of Storms End. And I never saw any animosity between Jon and Gendry when they went ranging beyond the Wall. I like Gendry and really would have hated him turning against Jon in that way.

This. The character turns were poorly developed and almost whiplash inducing in Dany's case. I feel you. I had a long conversation with my daughter and her friends at a camping trip this weekend and went on and on and on about all the things that I think went wrong this season...Even though they agreed with much of it I’m sure they’re sorry they brought it up. I am still salty.

As much as I would have been poetic to see Jorah follow in his father’s footsteps to the Nights Watch, I think the idea that Jorah would have doubts about his Khaleesi and actively conspire against her would just add one more hard-to-swallow turn to the too-rushed resolution of this season. They would have needed to set up something earlier, maybe after the burning of the Tarleys in season 7 to get him to that point by 804. I think they made the right choice to have him die defending Dany, because that increases Dany’s sense of loss and removes his tempering influence at a time when she badly needs it. Plus, if he had survived it gives Jon and Jorah basically the same character arcs and the show runners already reduced Jon to a pathetic yes-man for most of the season as it was. I honestly can’t buy Gendry being so anti-Jon in the council. So Dany gave him his title and lands, but it’s not like King Bran isn’t going to honor that claim and Gendry wasn’t in King Landing to see the carnage. I’m glad they didn’t use that alternative scene.

I don’t know. The fact that Ellaria murdered the ruling prince of Dorne, his heir and a princess of the seven kingdoms to get revenge on the Lannisters for Oberon’s death (which HE could have avoided if he hadn’t offered to be Tyrion’s champion and flitted around when he had an opportunity to take the Mountain out) probably sealed her fate as far as Dorne was concerned, regardless of her alliance with Daenerys.

Because reasons, of course. /s Because George R.R. Martin plans that outcome for his character arcs for Jon and Dany and D&D had to contrive (poorly) some reason to get them to that point. In my opinion, very little about these characters makes any sense in this season and they were checking off bullet points to get the characters in the GRRM-assigned outcomes in the course of a few episodes. Logic, what’s that?

Brian Cogman has written some episodes, has read and understands the original source material and is careful about the characterizations. He could have written more than just one episode for the final season, in my opinion.

I think you’re both right. The problem, in my opinion, was the wording in the script. I think Sansa was saying she survived because of all the experiences and traumas she endured, and what she learned from them. But the response to the Hound’s very blunt and crude comment which related to her being raped does sort of draw the connection to that particular traumatic event.

I don’t understand this. Are you saying that a general who is in charge of an army in which a few of its enlisted men commit crimes should be hanged as a war criminal because of those men’s crimes? Or, that Jon should be hanged because the ally he and his troops supported, committed war crimes that he did not know about in advance? Jon didn’t enable Dany to commit war crimes. He tried to stop Grey Worm from executing the surrendered Lannister soldiers. Dany’s heel turn was a shock to everyone and Jon dispensed “justice” on the Northern soldier who was raping the woman. He ultimately committed murder to prevent further war crimes. I don’t disagree about how the “brown” people are treated in GoT by the writers, although I in this case took it more as, they weren’t happy hanging around in racist Westeros and wanted to complete Dany’s mission somewhere else.

This is a good point. Yara made a promise to Daenerys to not allow any more raping and plundering. Dany's dead so I can see Yara being off the hook, and if she's pissed off enough about how things ended up, just letting her fleet go back to their pre-Dany ways. Plus, her brother died at Winterfell and what did that give to the Iron Islands? Not a damn thing, except maybe some platitudes from the QitN.

I'm honestly confused about this. Yes, I think that Bran sentenced Jon to a life sentence in the Nights Watch as a way of keeping the Unsullied from executing Jon or making war over Jon being let off without punishment. But, there were 2 Nights Watch guards/escorts/ whatever with Jon from Kings Landing to Castle Black and someone at Castle Black opened the gates to let the wildlings go North... was it other wildlings manning the castle or the few NW that were sentenced there for some crime or other? Jon was wearing his Lord Commander IKEA rug cloak, so maybe he's the Lord Commander and elected King beyond the Wall. The Freefolk seemed to like him well enough. But I digress. The Sam thing makes no sense. Maybe King Brandon absolved him from his NW oath as well as his duty to complete his training at the Citadel so that he could serve on the King's council. That's my headcanon. That still doesn't answer what happens to Gilly and their baby.

This confuses me. Sam: (a) is representing Horn Hill as Lord at the election of Bran, not acting as a Maester. His mother could have represented the castle if Sam was remaining a Maester. I assumed he would resume his place as Lord of Horn Hill after his father and brother were killed, he effectively dropped out and therefore, should be allowed to marry Gilly and raise his child as legitimate. But no. (b) took a vow to the Nights Watch, which apparently is still is a thing. Why isn't he returning to take his place as Maester at Castle Black? (c) is not even a full-fledged Maester and I thought it was the Maesters that got to decide who sits on the King's council, not just who is buddies with the King. Makes zero sense, and D&D had to twist the story into a pretzel to squeeze in a slap-dash conclusion for every fan favorite.

I think they want to imply that that big book that Sam brought from Maester Ebrose contains some of the recent histories and that there could be another such book recounting the long-ago history of Westeros as memorized by "Bran the Broken" (eyeroll). That way the 3ER won't need to sentence another unfortunate person to a lifetime of robotic wikipediaizing after he dies.