S17.E05: High Fashion to High Street

[heavysnaxx]

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Ha! I was just searching for images for this very thing!

I had one of those!

I confess my own strongest Dapper Dan association is with George Clooney's beloved pomade in O Brother Where Art Thou.

About Rakan (and Kovi): I, too, at first thought they were just at a cultural disadvantage in this challenge that's being judged by American streetwear folks. But doesn't have every culture have some subset of fashion that's youth-centric, that pushes boundaries in what's beautiful and "proper"? Rakan chose to tap into the women of farms, in for the market day. But what do the young people wear to impress reach other?

It may be me but: Brandon's repeatedly calling a Syrian contestant's look genie-like struck me as...not optimal. But then, he seems like he always seems revved up for his Weekly Zinger, to me. The George Costanza is strong with that one.

About the Christian/food comment: My reaction was, "Scolding at least one larger, older guy ON TV for eating is your idea of coaching?! You blew it - your point was time management and you made it into Real Designers Don't Eat by bragging about not eating for 3 days?" C'mon, show. That's a terrible message.

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Edited April 13, 2019 by heavysnaxx
Because accuracy is important.

[shksabelle]

“18th Century Elizabethan”

these people are talented, but not bright. And then when they try to spout all the SJW nonsense, they really show their lack of education. 

Just sketch and sew, please 

[jackjill89]

I don't even think the mistake was that they were eating...but that they were eating during the model fitting! What a waste of time. You have limited time with them. Use it!  If I were Christian I would have been pissed at them too. If it's a one day challenge -- it's grab and go, not sit and chat, and certainly while you're models are there. I'm not fans of either Rakan or Jamal, and this didn't help. 

[Kdel1079]

I’m glad that Christian didn’t co-design this week and also pointed it out when Jamal ran out of time, as he had tried to warn him. I don’t get all the love for Hester. Tessa is so bossy and it’s uncalled for. And I wish this show had a more engaging host than karlie. I’m also waiting for a plus size models designer to have a win too. I don’t really get street wear. And I felt bad when the designers said they hadn’t eaten all day and there was hardly time to use the restroom. But if you are given the amazing opportunity to compete on a show like this and your dream is fashion design, I’d imagine you’d be happy to make some sacrifices and suffer a bit for your chance and your art

[kirklandia]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

If you go to the Bravo Project Runway website you can see all of the looks from the runway.

I had done that, but the photo left a lot to be desired.  I guess I am a "safe" person, always left wanting to see more of those looks.

[Wandering Snark]

Rakan in this episode reminded me of Swapnil who was always seen taking numerous smoke breaks and had a terrible attitude about actually trying in the competition.

[Corgi-ears]

2 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

About the Christian/food comment: My reaction was, "Scolding at least one larger, older guy ON TV for eating is your idea of coaching?!

FWIW Rakan is 30. Christian is 33. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Corgi-ears

[heavysnaxx]

36 minutes ago, Corgi-ears said:

FWIW Rakan is 30. Christian is 33. 

Thank you for that correction! I never would have guessed that.

[mightysparrow]

I think it's really interesting that so many people feel the need to mock a 74 year old man who is considered a legend in his industry.  Throw in that he was kind and supportive to all the designers, even the ones that had so clearly messed up.

Maybe there's something about Dapper Dan that makes him such an easy target.

[Corgi-ears]

41 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

Thank you for that correction! I never would have guessed that.

I think it's fair to say that most people wouldn't 😁. Rakan's 30 years look like they were...rough, though that's probably because they were. I mean: Syrian refugee. (Rougher than Christian's, at the very least, even if listening to Rakan's Syrian farmer explanation appears to have aged Christian right in front of our eyes.)

[heyjupiter]

Sometimes I think they should be given references or mood boards to better understand the context of the challenge. That way those that are not familiar with street wear could get context as long as the designers don't lift ideas straight from it. 

I was actually interested in the concept of Rakan's look but he didn't do enough with it. They were right to point out the pants needed pockets and should have been slouchy. The shrug should have been exaggerated and embellished. They had that whole table of extras. 

As for Jamal, it's a one day challenge, who has time for all this work in muslin? Get sewing! 

I wonder if Hester's hats have sayings on two sides so that she just has to turn it 180 degrees and a new phrase is there and the other is hidden on her neck. 

Many of the safe looks were safe because they boring but well made. Multiple didn't seem to hit the mark either but weren't offensive. 

[HappyDancex2]

Hester is exhausting in her own way.  With their late nights and early mornings I feel bad that she has to devote so much time to doll up her schtick instead of sleep LOL.  She is the polar opposite of someone who is effortless.  I don’t trust someone who spends so much time putting on a character in life.  What’s she hiding?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, shksabelle said:

“18th Century Elizabethan”

these people are talented, but not bright. And then when they try to spout all the SJW nonsense, they really show their lack of education. 

Just sketch and sew, please 

How is making an inaccurate historical reference indicative that Jamall (or anyone) is a SJW?

10 hours ago, Ashforth said:

Hi @jmcd44! Just for the sake of clarity, I didn't post the comment you quoted, @mightysparrow did. The quote function here leaves something to be desired (or at least I don't know how to use it properly, because I wasn't able to quote your whole post). Like you, I had to google Dapper Dan. 😊

If you use the multi-quote button at the bottom of the original post (see below), you can quote the entire original post. You can click this button on multiple posts and then when you're ready to post, click on the box at the bottom of your screen that says "quote [#] posts." It will only quote what the user typed. For example, if you clicked the quote button for the post below, what will show up in your post is ONLY what Pepper Mostly wrote. It will not include what she quoted from Snewtsie.

[sunshine23]

Just hearing Nina accuse a look of being "suburban" in the previ, with the disdain dripping, irritates me to no end.  We are sorry that some of us live in the suburbs rather than NYC. If we dressed editorial, we'd be mocked, but I guess we are mocked regardless, based on Nioa's attitude.

Thoughts after watching the show...

Is a designer producing a finished look that fits their interpretation of the challenge worse than producing a non-finished look?  Both bottom looks were bad but one was finished and one wasn't. I think they were just looking for a way to get rid of Kovid. 

Also, anyone else thing Jamal looks like Webster? 

Edited April 13, 2019 by sunshine23

[Beden]

1 hour ago, sunshine23 said:

Just hearing Nina accuse a look of being "suburban" in the previ, with the disdain dripping, irritates me to no end.  We are sorry that some of us live in the suburbs rather than NYC. If we dressed editorial, we'd be mocked, but I guess we are mocked regardless, based on Nioa's attitude.

I'm guessing that 'suburban' ranks just slightly below 'mumsy' on Nina's hit list.

Elitist snob much? I'm just saying that if her demographic is limited to young urban women, fine and dandy. For me? To each his/her own but she's locking me out and gives me no reason to buy what she's selling.

[Ellaria]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:47 PM, Straycat80 said:

Who elected Tessa as workroom judge...

On 4/12/2019 at 8:41 AM, VintageJ said:

And Tessa, shut the hell up about who you think will be gone or needs to go.  She can go too, as far as I’m concerned.  Just because I agreed with you doesn’t make it okay in the stew room.

Agree. I dislike her dismissive attitudes towards the other designers. Her early win and positive feedback have made her a legend in her own mind. And yet she doesn't seem to be a pariah in the workroom. Maybe they see something that we do not.

On 4/12/2019 at 12:02 AM, mightysparrow said:

Dapper Dan is one of the most influential designers alive.  He combined designer and hip-hop fashion and is STILL being copied. 

If you don't know Dapper Dan, you don't know fashion.

I did not know who Dapper Dan was. If that means that I don't know fashion...that's fine. I'm not here claiming to be a fashion expert. Like the rest of us, I'm here offering an opinion on a reality TV show that I enjoy.

I'm also not getting the impression that anyone here is actually mocking Dapper Dan himself.

Despite not knowing who he was, I appreciated his interaction with the designers and wish that we could have seen more of it (and a little less of Jamal's indecision about his look).

Bishme and Venny were tied for the win, IMO. Garo's look...while probably well constructed didn't thrill me. Hester's look was a bit silly, just like Hester herself. Jamal should have been sent packing because that was hideous (fabric choice, construction, etc.) Nothing else was memorable, good or bad.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Ellaria Sand

[Sarnia]

9 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I think it's really interesting that so many people feel the need to mock a 74 year old man who is considered a legend in his industry.  Throw in that he was kind and supportive to all the designers, even the ones that had so clearly messed up.

I have read the whole discussion and don't feel anyone was mocking the man himself. I had no idea who he was, but as you I found him very genuine and supportive. I think most of the snark and fun I read was actually in reaction to the comment that "if you don't know Dapper Dan you don't know fashion" (which I hope was also made with a bit of humor).

[Kdel1079]

On a random note, can you imagine cavanaugh ‘s reaction to the camping in the woods challenge?? lol 😆

[carrps]

On 4/12/2019 at 9:54 AM, mightysparrow said:

I would definitely recommend his book; it's great!

Are you an advance reviewer? Because I just went to Amazon on your recommendation, and according to them it can only be pre-ordered (not available until July 9th). In any case, I'm happy to add it to my small collection of design books.

12 hours ago, heyjupiter said:

I wonder if Hester's hats have sayings on two sides so that she just has to turn it 180 degrees and a new phrase is there and the other is hidden on her neck. 

Like the Hedda Get Bedda doll!

[hookedontv]

Buh-bye Kovid. You were exhausting to watch.

Swatch looks more street with his naked self than Kovid’s creation or the ridiculous puffy Elizabethan disaster. 

[ML89]

Happy to see Kovid  gone - he got so exhausting, and those kulottes were hideous. Although I'm on team "the whole bottom 3 could have gone." Jamal's dress was horrible - it wasn't street unless street is defined as a housedress I threw on to get the newspaper. Rakan's was at least competently made but while I absolutely agree with eating, your model is standing there and you go traipse off to get a snack? Wait until they're gone and then go.

Not that the winners were much better - Vennie's dress barely covered his model's butt - seriously, have any of these guys tried to sit in a dress like that? Would they like their bare butt on, say, a subway seat? Bishme's bomber jacket - I had one in the 70s, but at least his outfit looked good and was a pretty color. Garo's corset looked like it was made out of an Ace bandage and I was floored at the love for that outfit - it was aggressively ugly. Hester's conglomeration must have been fourth from the bottom.

I've never seen such ugly fabric - I guess they hit the Mood end of season clearance sale for it.

I hate to tell PR that street wear in my part of Florida is jeans or jean shorts, flip flops and tee shirts. Or leggings, sneakers, and a top. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by ML89

[Sesquipedalia]

On 4/11/2019 at 11:34 PM, Kimmykun said:

"18th Century Elizabethan".

And also Victorian!

I have been really liking the guests so far this season. Even though I may not have previously heard of them, they are clearly relevant to the fashion world and seem to inspire the designers. Dapper Dan is also adorable and so nice! He seemed to really enjoy interacting with the younger designers.

The kerfuffle in the break room was interesting to me. I could see a scenario in which Christian was over-reacting and Jamal's "drama" comment turned out to be true. But, low and behold, the two designers lollygagging in the break room during the model fitting were both in the bottom. Everyone has their own creative process and way of working, but the kind of focus and drive Christian has--the kind where you get so engrossed in your work you forget to eat or go to the bathroom--may be what it takes to actually win.

I disagreed with the decision to send Kovid home. It's fine to use a three-strikes type policy when all the bottom three are roughly equally bad. But when there is one look that is way way worse than the other two, I think that person should go home.

[Ilovepie]

7 hours ago, Beden said:

I'm guessing that 'suburban' ranks just slightly below 'mumsy' on Nina's hit list.

You can add “old lady” from Christian to the list of disdain. I think when Nina says something is suburban she just means it’s not fashionable. And I think this was accurate in describing Kovid’s look which to me was the antithesis of fashionable.

26 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Garo's corset looked like it was made out of an Ace bandage and I was floored at the love for that outfit - it was aggressively ugly. 

I completely agree. I didn’t understand it at all- either as a “street” look or any kind of look really. My friend and I were discussing it yesterday and we came to the realization that between the corset and neck brace, coupled with the orthopedic shoes, it just looked like someone who had recently gotten out of the hospital after breaking their back/neck. I thought it was just ugly and weird for the sake of being weird, and his fabrics didn’t go together any better than Jamall’s. Nothing about it said urban street wear to me.

I really think Rakan could have benefited from Marni’s styling help this week. If he had made that pant a slouchy jogger (it was juuuussst shy of that to me) with a different shoe and overall styling I think it would have been one of the better looks that actually met the challenge. He does seem resistant to listening to anyone’s advice though.......

[izabella]

Apparently, there is Elizabethan streetwear, according to Louis Vuitton and Lily Aldridge.  If Jamal had made pants, blouse and jacket with neck and wrist riffles and puffy sleeves, or even just pants and a blouse and vest, his inspiration would have been fine, and likely the fabric, too.  But he couldn't even finish the dress because Elizabethan is a lot of work, too much for a one day challenge.

https://nowfashion.com/elizabethan-meets-the-eighties-at-louis-vuitton-25992

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/647462883903672840/

[Ashforth]

58 minutes ago, izabella said:

Apparently, there is Elizabethan streetwear, according to Louis Vuitton and Lily Aldridge.  If Jamal had made pants, blouse and jacket with neck and wrist riffles and puffy sleeves, or even just pants and a blouse and vest, his inspiration would have been fine, and likely the fabric, too.  But he couldn't even finish the dress because Elizabethan is a lot of work, too much for a one day challenge.

https://nowfashion.com/elizabethan-meets-the-eighties-at-louis-vuitton-25992

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/647462883903672840/

WOW, that is some seriously ugly stuff. 

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

WOW, that is some seriously ugly stuff. 

Truth!  Just because you can make Elizabethan street wear does not mean that you should make Elizabethan street wear.

[violet and green]

I'm sure there is "Elizabethan streetwear" - why not! - but the Elizabethan period was not in the 18th century, as he somehow managed to imply! It was a hideous dowdy frock, and unfinished in every aspect, anyway. I would happily have seen a double auf.

I felt sad for Kovid. Christian really tried to steer him in the right direction, reminding him of the charming look he presented in the opening runway of the season. Nothing he did after that had that elegance, simplicity and charm, which is odd, but I found Kovid a very endearing and sincere contestant and will miss hearing his idiosyncratic little exclamations in the background as they run here and there, and his deep, melodic voice.

Good to hear I am but a humble hayseed, as I've never heard of DD, either. I really enjoyed his responses to their work and his interactions with the contestants. 

[dleighg]

6 minutes ago, violet and green said:

Good to hear I am but a humble hayseed, as I've never heard of DD, either. I really enjoyed his responses to their work and his interactions with the contestants. 

ITA. And I agree that I don't recall anyone being snarky to him at all here, just "I've never heard of him." I imagine there are many important and influential people all over the world that I've never heard of. It doesn't mean I'm dissing them.

[Calamity Jane]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:34 PM, Kimmykun said:

"18th Century Elizabethan".

Had me shrieking at the TV.

[Calamity Jane]

On 4/11/2019 at 10:34 PM, Kitty Redstone said:

Poor Jamall.  He is struggling not just with the constraints of the challenges, but with who he is as a man and a designer.  I didn't realize he was only 23!

I'm an old white lady, so I can't pretend to understand fully, but to me it felt as if Jamal was (and has been) struggling with a perception that people don't think he's immersed enough in his "own" culture because he was in fact not brought up in it.  My heart kind of hurt for him when it seemed he felt that from the judges. He did produce a pretty horrible garment, but I was reacting to the human emotion, not his fashion.  I hope his path will smooth out, he seems like a pretty good guy, just young.  

[auntlada]

4 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

You can add “old lady” from Christian to the list of disdain. I think when Nina says something is suburban she just means it’s not fashionable. And I think this was accurate in describing Kovid’s look which to me was the antithesis of fashionable.

I think the word she's looking for is "frumpy." That would be a much better description than "old lady," "mumsy" or "suburban."

[Fellaway]

1 hour ago, auntlada said:

I think the word she's looking for is "frumpy." That would be a much better description than "old lady," "mumsy" or "suburban."

Indeed.  It would describe the garment in question, without insulting a whole class of people based on stereotypes.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Fellaway

[meowmommy]

On 4/12/2019 at 2:53 PM, auntlada said:

I don't think ladies who lunch would have been caught dead in that mess.

And Peach Carr wouldn't be caught dead making a dress like that.

I don't know fashion, and I don't know Dapper Dan, but I do know that designers putting their names on the outside of their product brought an eyeroll in the 80s and it brings one now.  Like Lorraine McFly thinking Marty's name was Calvin Klein by assuming his mother sewed his name on his clothes.  Then and now, it reeks of conspicuous consumption.

Garo's "corset" looked to me exactly like an abdominal binder--the thing the hospital gives you to put around your gut to hold everything together after open abdominal surgery.  If it had been even in a light shade of color, it wouldn't have looked so medical to me.

When Heidi had the designers create an outfit for her line, she gave them a sample book so they could see what the line was supposed to look like.  Perhaps it would have been kind for PR to provide a sample book so the designers, especially the non-Americans, could see examples of the genre.

But then, a one-day challenge is not kind.  It's positively Bunim-Murray.

[HappyDancex2]

When I hear Nina say suburban I assume she means comfortable LOL.  What her haughty self should say is that they look very American comfort chic!  And Christian knows that Old Ladies in Europe look quite dashing as a generalized group.  But what should I expect from someone who spent an entire season saying the word “fierce” 10 times an episode!

Maybe this trend of making everyone tell an elaborate story is what leads to these bizzare descriptives of odd fashion choices.  When peddling farm to war to urban street wear and we get fancy shrugs over pajama pants I’m kind of at a loss as to what to pick on first too lol.  Do I hate the fabric?  Do I hate the fit?   Would I not wear this on a farm?  Could I see my grandma in it?  Do Serbian suburbs have Costcos?

[morakot]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:34 PM, Kimmykun said:

"18th Century Elizabethan".

And, as  mentioned above, Victorian Elizabethan as well. 

I did actually like the ruff collar  - it was definitely the core of something interesting and it was a shame he didn't have time to finish it (or even think it through). I liked that he used quilting and puffing to make the collar stand up instead of boning or starch. It would definitely frame the face (and hide the chin). 

I also liked the way the winning jacket also took on an Edwardian look with the leg of mutton sleeves and then translated it into a modern bomber jacket.  Loved it. 

In reference to the history of dress, I know the Victoria & Albert museum in London opens its costume vaults to designers for reference. (Vivienne Westwood visited frequently to look at the structure of historical clothing.) In return, they accept donations from runway collections for their collection and create exhibits on newer designers too.

I know the Met in NYC has a huge vault - do they do the same thing? They do regular exhibitions but I don't know enough of their relationship with new designers - particularly after they've graduated from design school.

There's basically nothing new under the sun, but it helps to look at what's old and know how to recreate it.

[Kaiju Ballet]

13 hours ago, ML89 said:

I was floored at the love for that outfit - it was aggressively ugly.

I'm going to steal the phrase"aggressively ugly" lol. I fear it will come into play if/when they do the avant-garde challenge.

[Pepper Mostly]

10 hours ago, auntlada said:

I think the word she's looking for is "frumpy." That would be a much better description than "old lady," "mumsy" or "suburban."

Tim Gunn would have said "dowdy". He used it often with Wendy Pepper, who veered toward looks for Ladies who Lunch. 

[novhappy]

I guess I don’t know what a corset is. PRAS has the corset challenge in which, I didn’t see many garments I believed to be corsets. And in this episode Garonsaid he was making a corset but, appeared to me to make a belt. 

[auntlada]

3 minutes ago, novhappy said:

I guess I don’t know what a corset is. PRAS has the corset challenge in which, I didn’t see many garments I believed to be corsets. And in this episode Garonsaid he was making a corset but, appeared to me to make a belt. 

A corset can go over or under the breasts or just around the waist. The latter is a particular kind of corset called a waist cincher.

A corset generally cinches in the waist to make it look smaller. In the PRAS corset challenge, the designers didn't all end up with corsets.

[novhappy]

Thanks for that. All those times I pulled my wide belt tight I had no idea I was fashioning a corset!

[SuprSuprElevated]

The K-people et al call them waist trainers, gastroenterologists call them next year's European vacation.

do-waist-trainers-work

Note - This page unavailable if you ad block.

[carrps]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

The K-people et al call them waist trainers, gastroenterologists call them next year's European vacation.

do-waist-trainers-work

Note - This page unavailable if you ad block.

Are "K-people" the Keeping Up With Those Who Shall Not Be Named?

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Are "K-people" the Keeping Up With Those Who Shall Not Be Named?

Affirmative

[leocadia]

While his execution was highly unsuccessful, I understood where Jamall was coming from with his concept.  DD mentioned taking luxury items like diamonds and fur and bringing it to streetwear.  I think Jamall zeroed in on that idea and thought "What could be more opulent than bringing Elizabethan couture to the street."  That being said, even he knew that the (un)finished result was awful.  I think with a lot more time and serious editing he could have done something awesome.  Unfortunately it was a bad decision for a one-day challenge.

[Vermicious Knid]

Hester got away with making a costume again, and will probably stick around through next week when the challenge is an actual costume.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

As much as I hate to "defend" Rakan, because I'm just not a fan and he seems like such a slobby schlub that it amazes me he's in design, when he first explained his concept, if I understood it correctly, it actually not only made sense to me but sounded like it could have potential ...

If I'm misremembering or misunderstood, then totally my bad, but I thought he was saying that at the Syrian "street markets," people bring their goods to sell them ... I imagined, when he was describing it, peasant women dressed in their native garb with their wares, how they'd dress on THAT street, the one with the local markets. I thought it sounded really cool, honestly.

It got shorthanded to "farmer's wife" which seemed more like the woman still on the farm milking the cow.

 

[kirklandia]

I could really get into a Project Runway International (NOT that  last bogus "international" season of AllStars).  

Samoan survival wear!  Syrian street wear!  Bring it on...

[PamelaMaeSnap]

22 minutes ago, kirklandia said:

I could really get into a Project Runway International (NOT that  last bogus "international" season of AllStars).  

Samoan survival wear!  Syrian street wear!  Bring it on...

If only to bring Afa back I'd be all in. But seriously it sounds fantastic! The last pseudo-international All-Stars season was BS because they may as well have all been from Peoria. I'd love to see an emphasis on "show your culture in your designs"! 

[Lemons]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:24 AM, Beden said:

I'm guessing that 'suburban' ranks just slightly below 'mumsy' on Nina's hit list.

Elitist snob much? I'm just saying that if her demographic is limited to young urban women, fine and dandy. For me? To each his/her own but she's locking me out and gives me no reason to buy what she's selling.

I just looked Nina up because I don't know much about her.  She's in her mid-50's, officially old by Project Runway standards.  And she just might be an elitist snob.  She grew up in a wealthy Colombian family and went to boarding high school in Massachusetts before going to BU.  After that she went to FIT and started in fashion.  You would think at her age she would be a little more tolerant towards the fact that not everyone is 25 years old with a six figure wardrobe budget.  

[marinite]

On 4/11/2019 at 10:00 PM, buttersister said:

Apparently my Xfinity package includes being heard by the judges when I yell at the TV. Bye, Kovid. Congrats on leaving with style. 

Really?  Then I need to get me that package too !  😉. I had no idea who Dapper Don  was either but then I am not that demographic at all. 

35 minutes ago, marinite said:

Edited April 15, 2019 by marinite
Typo