S09.E15: The Calm Before

[maystone]

36 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

I did like the Highwaymen  and they never got their movie  😞.  But when they first came on scene I wondered why every group had to have a gimmick and a name.  

Now that the Highwaymen are gone I expect to see these guys show up 

I would be up for this. "Whisperers. Come out to playayyyyyy."

[Lamima]

8 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

My DVR stopped after the girl recognized the lady at the movie and I missed the ending (best part?).

DVR the repeat coming up. Be sure to add time on the end.

[mxc90]

2 minutes ago, Lamima said:

DVR the repeat coming up. Be sure to add time on the end.

Thanks. I just did and will be a little late for work tomorrow.

[AngelaHunter]

11 minutes ago, Quilty said:

Will there be a Henry statue next to the Tiger?

My heart aches that I can give this only 1 "like".

[SimoneS]

@raven, on TD they said that they hired a shop that used cranberry juice on the apples.

[Butless]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Okay, can someone explain to me like I'm five years old how Elpha & co. rounded up all these people and killed them so easily?

I don't know who most of the Heads on Sticks were, but recognized Tara and Prince Henry. Good riddance to that LITTLE SHIT. His head was still pouting!

Well don't look to the writers. They can, but they wont. Because this way is much easier for them. 

49 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

Is it wrong that I cheered to see Henry’s head?  Stupid kid.    I really thought it would be Zeke.  That’s how we’d know shit just got real.

Otherwise decent.  But I’m so very tired of speechifying villains.  I would have loved to see Daryl just throw the bitch in the canyon.  Also I need some hard core rage.  If that happened to me I burn down every tree in the tri state area.  My mission would be to kill every last one of the Whisperers.  i’d start with Lydia.

Experiencing horrible trauma, especially the repeated horrific trauma that's displayed on this show, can destroy people. Can bleed them of all hope.

  I know this is all some  bad writers' fantasy, but it's hard to watch characters, who are supposed to be human, go through torture/murder , over and over, and still have any human connection to them. It's too extreme, which makes them even more fantastical, and non-human characters. I liked the very human aspects of this show, when it was still good. Because when it was pretty good in depicting real human behavior and plots, you could ignore all the other stuff. 

I also think it's awful that they are leaning so hard on depicting beheadings for entertainment, when real beheading were happening and being broadcast to traumatize scores of people, not long ago. And probably are still happening, now. I know a lot of people who were legitimately traumatized by seeing those very real, very viral clips, not long ago, at all.

[Butless]

52 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

That's for sure. I wish I hadn't been spoiled about his demise, then I could have felt happiness and surprise instead of just happiness. 

I didn't like that Enid was up there. She was okay, just a happy girl and I never really found her annoying, as I did Tara.

Tara, Enid, Osso Bucco and the Ocean Spray girl who is no longer on the show now?, always have their mouths gaping open. I don't know why, other than bad acting.  But they all deserved their head on a spike.

[Butless]

50 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

I also, for the most part, always liked Enid. And I say that as the owner of a pet turtle, so you know I liked her.

Because she reminded you of a turtle? I guess I see it, a little?

[AngelaHunter]

19 minutes ago, Butless said:

go through torture/murder

I hear Kirkman is a big fan of torture porn. In fact, from what I hear, the show toned down his kinky tortures that were in the comics.

jackjill89 said:

Quote

The lady with the baby too.

The show has gone through so many characters, introducing them and then killing them off we don't even know their names, much less care when they go belly up.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Let this be a lesson: don't hire the sibling of another actor for convenience. Big Henry can join Little Henry and Sophia in preferably trying out something besides acting in their futures. 

Remember when Zombie Sophia walking out of the barn was like the.biggest.shock ever and we cared? That seems like a decade ago. 

Coming up in season 10: Michonne accepts she has a permanent crick in her neck from her hair weighing her down on one side. There will be a whole flashback episode dedicated to how she struggled with that crick. 

Maybe now that Tara's dead, Lydia can borrow her never-ending supply of dry shampoo. Girl is looking greasy AF.

I'm glad there's still a Kinko's operating in the zombie apocalypse that could print out an oversized declaration. And Sharpies that haven't dried out! Nice!

And finally, keep on roller skating, you two.

[rebel2u]

Nobody in the crowd seemed too upset about the heads on the pikes save Saddiq.

My heart sang when I saw the heads of Henry and Tara; two more annoying characters there could not be.  (Too soon?)

How can Lydia stay with the good guys?  She, with the help of that cretin, Henry, is essentially responsible for the head-on-a-stick deaths.

If I were her, I would be sleeping with one eye open.  

[CletusMusashi]

35 minutes ago, Butless said:

Because she reminded you of a turtle? I guess I see it, a little?

No, I meant that I liked her enough to ignore the fact that she eats them. 

Fortunately, the show is on after Quegueg's bedtime.

[heisenberg]

I was more troubled for Nicole Kidman at the beginning than half of the cut-off heads at the end even if they were on the show for a while.

Half way thru the show I was telling myself how bad is the actor playing Henry just by the way he was walking with a crutch...  No more worries!.. 

I thought that I would never say that but...  I can't wait to see Negan go full blast on the whisperers (I hope so) and if Carol and Darryl are in,  even better!

[shanndee]

I enjoyed seeing Daryl and Carol have so many scenes together. They are still close, and have an easy way of being together that really makes me miss the first few seasons of this show. In fact, watching the 2 of them (and Michonne) interacting and fighting together almost made me enjoy the episode.

This was one of the better episodes in recent memory for me. Keep giving me Carol and Daryl scenes (and any of the others who's are from the early seasons) and I might care about this show a little.

Hopefully we get a scene of Carol cutting off that horrible hair and going full Scarol on Alpha's *ss next week.

Edited March 25, 2019 by shanndee
typo!

[AlwaysWatching]

Dang - it was disconcerting coming here and reading all this "heads on pikes" stuff when I had no idea what anyone was talking about. Yep, my DVR cut-off too soon along with some others here. I'm DVRing it again now, but it's really too late.  I had a feeling that last scene I saw with Alpha shushing her daughter wasn't the end of the episode. I even ran it back to make sure.

Those reveals were just too much to be missed and I'm just a bit angry.  I didn't care much for Henry or Tara and wouldn't have missed Enid if she had just simply disappeared from the show.  But I'm twisted and I would have liked to have been at least a little shocked at that scene.  It would have been the most "dayum!" scene in a very long time.  Actually, I have been extremely close to giving up on TWD.  I always think that. Then a new ep comes on and I always watch it.  I hate being owned. grrrr

[mightysparrow]

Why do the Whisperers need their own territory that require borders?  All they do is shuffle around, WHISPERING.  It's not like they're building homes or living any kind of life.  There are too many people who think they're fucking royalty on this show.  King Ezekiel and Queen Carol of The Kingdom, the late Prince Henry and now Queen Alpha of the Walkers.

I guess I just don't GET the Whisperers.  All the other bad guys made some sort of twisted sense.  This group makes no sense at all.  Which makes them a waste of time, in my opinion. 

I would have loved it if we could have spent more time with Jocelyn and her Evil Urchins. 

[Giselle]

I never liked Tara. As time went on I just couldn't with her. I know she was pregnant in real life but a fat Tara when everybody else was starving just didn't fit. This episode it looked like Tara has lost some weight so they must have put a lock on the pantry door.

I liked the Charlie Daniels Band, they became fodder too soon. 

I didn't care about the others. I wasn't disappointed in the ending, because I just didn't care. 

"Game of Thrones." When I first saw the pikes that's what I thought then with the snow flurries "Winter is coming. Great, the WD has become a commercial for another show on another network."

[Shimmergloom]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

especially if they find out that her mother was at The Kingdom AND SHE DIDN'T SAY A WORD.  She's an accessory to murder.

She went straight to Ezekiel and told him in the theater.

[dvil]

TWD would've been shocking if Dog's head had been on a spike. I'm underwhelmed by the ending.

[spiderpig]

Yay - Henry on a stick!  Sorry about the other nine (well, except for Tara)...

I had to come to this forum to verify who the long-haired female heads were, as well as the Highwaymen.  They all kinda sorta looked alike except for Addie and her glasses.

When Daryl intercepted Carol, Mr. pig and I were yelling "Look at the flowers, Carol!"

Our DVR cut off after an hour as well, but fortunately Mr. pig loves Into the Badlands, so we picked up the crucial final 20 minutes without interruption.

Finally, an episode where something actually happened.

[neptunewaves]

I jumped ship when Shane bit it and it was that Governor/Tara episode which convinced me to give the show another chance. She deserved so much better, man. Fuck it, I am out.

[tennisgurl]

We were joking about Game of Thrones earlier, but holy shit, I didnt mean like that!

I admit, this one got me. They really ramped up the tension, and when we saw poor Tara, Enid, all those people we had some fun moments with like the lady with the baby and the highwaymen, and even dumb little idiot Henry, it really did hurt in a way that the show hasn't made me feel in awhile.

Alpha needs to die, they better not give that monster a cell right next to fucking Negan.

[Mu Shu]

7 hours ago, Butless said:

'But she went down fighting!  And that's how I want you all to remember her! She really knew how to tie a kerchief, that old broad. Didn't come off in the fight, nor when she was beheaded and kebabbed.'

I laughed at her, too. And at Hipster Glasses Girl (who looked just as blank and lifeless as she was when she was alive). 

Things are really bad when you elicit a laugh in a scene of beheaded characters.

All the heads. It was a great way for their ageist asses to get rid of the olds. Everyone knows this is a story for tweens, now.  

There was no way that Connie or Kelly was going down that fast. They have some hefty plot armor; for a while, at least.  It's a common criticism now that POC, LGBT and physically challenged characters get killed off pretty quickly.

I'm glad about that, if they can deliver more scenes like the one between them.

It was well-acted, if not well-written.  So Connie also has a dead child in her past.  This is getting to be pretty cheap development for the women characters. Give me a break. Not every fucking woman has a kid in their past. They're using this crutch cheaply, and it's gross.

It's also, again, too close to Michonne's character. They really think that they're going to toss the old characters and set up the new ones in the same mold. These writers need to be publicly ridiculed for being greedy hacks.

Yes, everything.  They think they can kill our people off and casually toss us a bone?  Tweens and their up talking asses can have this show.  The bones , they are picked.  

[mxc90]

After all these seasons, is this the first time we are going to see snow and cold weather?

I give Tara credit for being around for so long. I thought she was passed her expiration when they were at the prison. Though I never found her annoying.

I should have seen the sign with Enid when she stated "the rest of our lives". Too bad! I liked her.

At least Alpha was nice enough to let the one girl keep her glasses on.

Alpha looks a little nice cleaned up. (I missed it) where did she find the soap?

[CletusMusashi]

I'll tell you one thing: love it or hate it, I can't believe this much happened in an episode that was not a finale.

[jackjill89]

This episode really got to me. Between this and last week's when Michonne had to kill all the children. This episode reminded me a bit of TWD of old. I actually felt something. While Henry might not have been the best actor, he was Carol's kid. Carol. You don't mess with Carol. She's original recipe.

I don't get The Whisperers and their whole territory thing. They are nomads. Just wander away. This part is confusing me. I do, however, find them to be a formidable villain. They are better than the stupid Saviors. Scarier, for sure because they aren't all about dick swinging and speechifying. 

Upthread, someone said "a bunch of randos" for the people that were killed -- but save the teens -- I didn't find the killings random at all. They were very intentional. You have the Highwaymen, who I actually liked and wanted to see more of and were trying to save the group -- so they were victims of circumstance, but the ones they gathered from Kingdom were very intentional IMO -- the "doctors" of the group -- Enid and Saddiq -- the lady raising the Whisperers' baby, Henry, Tara and then the teens (the only connection is they hurt Lydia's feelings but how would Alpha had known that?). They all did have a connection and purpose for dying. How in the hell did they round up that specific group? Hmmm. That has bugged me. Nothing in this show has made me think like this in a long time. It's so weird.

Anyway, I'm still really sad about Enid. Enid! 

Also -- been wondering about Maggie. Where in the world did she go with Hershel? How are they surviving?

Another question -- does Beta ever take off his mask? It must be really rank in there. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by jackjill89

[Haleth]

Awwww, man!  I haven't watched yet and now I'm not sure I want to.  Tara and Enid were never favorite characters for me but I don't want to see them killed.  (Henry?  All for it.)  I hate losing characters we've known forever, with them being replaced by new ones that have no personality.  I understand that there are just too many people to keep track of and killing off newbies creates little emotional impact, but the heart of the show was always the relationships, the family created by CDB and the people they picked up on the way to Alexandria.  I expect Danai will leave sooner than later too which really bums me out.  The more old time characters we lose, the less interest I have in continuing to watch.

[SimoneS]

On 3/25/2019 at 7:34 AM, jackjill89 said:

Anyway, I'm still really sad about Enid. Enid! 

I have been thinking about Enid also. I remember the first time that we met her at Alexandria. We got that flashback about her parents' death and how she survived no matter what. She was Carl's first crush and they had that strong friendship. It is sad that they are both gone. At least, Carl got to say goodbye to his family and went out on his own terms. Enid got captured, mutilated, decapitated, and put on a pike.

Then there was Tammy Rose, just last week I was cheering how she was a bad ass saving Earl from those walkers. She and Earl decide to adopt the baby finally coming back to life after losing their son and she is gone just like that.

Kelly was right when she told Connie every goodbye or parting could be the last. 

Alpha needs to be taken down painfully and brutally. I am counting on you, Carol.

Edited March 26, 2019 by SimoneS

[jackjill89]

15 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have been thinking about Enid also. I remember the first time that we met her at Alexandria. We got that flashback about her parents' death and how she survived no matter what. She was Carl's first crush and they had that strong friendship. It is sad that they are both gone. At least, Carl got to say goodbye to his family and went out on his own terms. Enid got captured, mutilated, decapitated, and put on pike.

Then there was Tammy Rose, just last week I was cheering how she was a bad ass saving Earl from those walkers. She and Earl decide to adopt the baby finally coming back to life after losing their son and she is gone just like that.

Kelly was right when she told Connie every goodbye or parting could be the last. 

Alpha needs to be taken down painfully and brutally. I am counting on you, Carol.

The saving grace of The Whisperers will be to have Carol go all "Terminus" on Alpha. We know she has it in her. Alpha will have no idea what hit her. She thinks she's the Alpha? Ha! She hasn't met Carol yet. Not really. All those gross skin-wearing nomads can suck it. They are weird. I don't get why they just don't wander away. It seems like that's what they've been doing for years. Go whisper somewhere else now. The US is a really big place. 

[sigmaforce86]

8 hours ago, maystone said:

. I agree that I don't know how they lured away the people that they did, but Saddiq must have told the rest of them how it went down. I'd like to know how they were chosen, just out of curiosity. Henry was a given, and Tara and Enid from being seen at Hilltop. Tammy because she was cooing at the baby, but the others I don't know.

14 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

Upthread, someone said "a bunch of randos" for the people that were killed -- but save the teens -- I didn't find the killings random at all. They were very intentional. You have the Highwaymen, who I actually liked and wanted to see more of and were trying to save the group -- so they were victims of circumstance, but the ones they gathered from Kingdom were very intentional IMO -- the "doctors" of the group -- Enid and Saddiq -- the lady raising the Whisperers' baby, Henry, Tara and then the teens (the only connection is they hurt Lydia's feelings but how would Alpha had known that?). They all did have a connection and purpose for dying. How in the hell did they round up that specific group? Hmmm. That has bugged me. Nothing in this show has made me think like this in a long time. It's so weird.

We came up with a theory this morning over breakfast (because we have nothing better to do around here).......The people Alpha picked to be killed all seem to be the most non-whisper people she met at the fair.  Going back over her sneaking around the booths Tammy and her husband walked behind her and it was Tammy that was talking pretty loudly about the baby, Alpha walked past the first aid booth and it was Enid being loud about how to do CPR, the random red haired girl gave Alpha directions.  Can't remember where Tara might fit into this theory but there was probably something she said or did that called attention to her.

So we think that everyone but Henry was picked just because they were loud and obvious and just like the baby that Alpha made that women leave in the field to not be quiet breaks her first rule.  The exception was Henry, very sure she picked him because he escaped from her once and to punish Lydia. 

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, maystone said:

I would be up for this. "Whisperers. Come out to playayyyyyy."

I would love for the Baseball Furies to be the next villains, if for no other reason that they were silent.   No dopey, unfunny, endless monologues.  I guess, they were sort of like a gang of mute Neagans.   The Hi-Hats, mime gang would also make nice, quiet villains.  

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, dvil said:

TWD would've been shocking if Dog's head had been on a spike. I'm underwhelmed by the ending.

Dog's head on a pike might have been the only outcome that would have really upset me.  Everyone else can die, at this point, for all I care.  The only piker I cared about even a little bit was Enid.    

[Samwise979]

I didn't really care for Henry but that Carol and Daryl scene made me care a heck of a lot that his head was on that pike. Poor Carol. And great acting from the two of them. Sophia flashbacks!

I am more in shock than upset that Tara and Enid died. At first when they showed the scene of Gabriel asking Eugene "have you seen her" I thought for sure Rosita was dead and I was like, nooooooooo! Not because I care for her all that much but because she is pregnant.

Anyway reading all of your replies about how Alpha really needs to die a terrible horrible bloody death, I think the writers did their job because I'm sure that's exactly how they want us to feel. 

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

We came up with a theory this morning over breakfast (because we have nothing better to do around here).......The people Alpha picked to be killed all seem to be the most non-whisper people she met at the fair.  Going back over her sneaking around the booths Tammy and her husband walked behind her and it was Tammy that was talking pretty loudly about the baby, Alpha walked past the first aid booth and it was Enid being loud about how to do CPR, the random red haired girl gave Alpha directions.  Can't remember where Tara might fit into this theory but there was probably something she said or did that called attention to her.

So we think that everyone but Henry was picked just because they were loud and obvious and just like the baby that Alpha made that women leave in the field to not be quiet breaks her first rule.  The exception was Henry, very sure she picked him because he escaped from her once and to punish Lydia. 

I think Alpha picked her victims randomly. She was walking around the fair, eavesdropping like she did with Jerry and Nabila. She chose people who she had enough info about them to convince them to go with her. She found out  that Enid and Siddiq were doctors so she likely told them that someone was hurt and told Tammy Rose that there was a child in trouble, etc. Also, Tara's last words to Gabriel and Rachael was that she wanted everyone to know they could count on her. If Alpha told her that  people were in trouble, Tara who was already getting ready to leave would have gone with her without a second thought.

Talking about Jerry, he cracked me up with the long complicated name for the fair and the "for reals" when Ezekiel told him they had changed the name to something easier. Glad he and his family were spared the pike.

Edited March 25, 2019 by SimoneS

[Timetoread]

While I find the Whisperers to be the most frightening of the TWD foes, I don’t get them.  What is their purpose?  How do their numbers grow if they kill everyone they encounter.  Why would they follow such an in charismatic leader who gives them nothing?  Why do they need territory?  Alpha is scary because the bitch is cuckoo but I wouldn’t be scared to fight her.  Nobody ever takes a swing.  None of it makes sense.

[Lady Iris]

7 hours ago, AlwaysWatching said:

Dang - it was disconcerting coming here and reading all this "heads on pikes" stuff when I had no idea what anyone was talking about. Yep, my DVR cut-off too soon along with some others here. I'm DVRing it again now, but it's really too late.  I had a feeling that last scene I saw with Alpha shushing her daughter wasn't the end of the episode. I even ran it back to make sure.

Those reveals were just too much to be missed and I'm just a bit angry.  I didn't care much for Henry or Tara and wouldn't have missed Enid if she had just simply disappeared from the show.  But I'm twisted and I would have liked to have been at least a little shocked at that scene.  It would have been the most "dayum!" scene in a very long time.  Actually, I have been extremely close to giving up on TWD.  I always think that. Then a new ep comes on and I always watch it.  I hate being owned. grrrr

YES! Exactly how I feel. I was sad to see Enid and Tara up there. Poor Enid, looking like she finally had stuff to be happy about to boot.

I have a feeling as much as we all want to see Carol go Terminus on Elpha that we'll be disappointed one way or another. It'd be too much to hope for I think.

[theredhead77]

That was sufficiently dark. I'm very glad they didn't show us the murders, just the aftermath (and the fight). I thought for sure the theater was going to be slaughtered because the headlines this week were relating this episode to Red Wedding (while I've never watch GoT I do exist in the world and understand it was visually brutal).

None of them, including the teenage bullies deserved that. The actor who played the boy bully had sufficient fear on his face during the fight flashback. That may have been the first time he ever saw real danger.

Cannot wait to see Carol take down Alpha for murdering Henry (just a guess based upon what we know about Carol).

[TattleTeeny]

I am lost; the last thing my DVR showed me was Alpha shushing Lydia during the movie. 

[Bryce Lynch]

33 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Talking about Jerry, he cracked me up with the long complicated name for the fair and the "for reals" when Ezekiel told him they had changed the name to something easier. Glad he and his family were spared the pike.

That was funny.  For the record it was the "First Annual Inter-Community Reunification Fair".  

I think, Jerry, his family and Dog are the only characters whose deaths would bother me, at this point.   

[gaPeach]

I too only saw the first hour and my DVR cut off.  I assumed that was the end of a Ho-hum episode.  Only to come here this morning and find out there was another 20 minutes!!!  How did they not make sure that was included in the line up for those of us that record episodes???  And it was apparently the best 20 minutes of the night.  I am calling FOWL on this.  I knew something was up when I saw there were 2 pages of comments this early in the morning.  UGH.

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Cannot wait to see Carol take down Alpha for murdering Henry (just a guess based upon what we know about Carol).

I don't get why so many people are hoping for this.  Carol helped create the annoying monster named Henry.  Alpha destroyed it.   Maybe Enid, Tara and the randos are worth of avenging, but Henry and the other obnoxious teen boy are not.  

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, gaPeach said:

I too only saw the first hour and my DVR cut off.  I assumed that was the end of a Ho-hum episode.  Only to come here this morning and find out there was another 20 minutes!!!  How did they not make sure that was included in the line up for those of us that record episodes???  And it was apparently the best 20 minutes of the night.  I am calling FOWL on this.  I knew something was up when I saw there were 2 pages of comments this early in the morning.  UGH.

My DVR also did not record the last 20 minutes, because PS Vue TV thought the episode ended at 10 and "Into the Badlands" had started.  I was watching at the time, so I didn't miss the ending.  

I really hope this screw up wasn't due to AMC playing games with the schedule they feed to the TV providers to try to get more people to watch Into the Badlands.  

[theredhead77]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't get why so many people are hoping for this.  Carol helped create the annoying monster named Henry.  Alpha destroyed it.   Maybe Enid, Tara and the randos are worth of avenging, but Henry and the other obnoxious teen boy are not.  

Not everyone hates Henry.
 

[TattleTeeny]

15 minutes ago, gaPeach said:

I too only saw the first hour and my DVR cut off.  I assumed that was the end of a Ho-hum episode.  Only to come here this morning and find out there was another 20 minutes!!!  How did they not make sure that was included in the line up for those of us that record episodes???  And it was apparently the best 20 minutes of the night.  I am calling FOWL on this.  I knew something was up when I saw there were 2 pages of comments this early in the morning.  UGH.

Right? And for all I knew, Alpha shushing Lydia seemed like a perfectly plausible stopping point! I had no idea until I came here and...

accidentally spoiled myself!

[Lamima]

9 hours ago, rebel2u said:

My heart sang when I saw the heads of Henry and Tara; two more annoying characters there could not be.  (Too soon?) 

Negan and now, Alpha. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lamima

[nodorothyparker]

AMC only slotted an hour for the episode on its official schedule.  While it was likely carelessness or their part, some small part of me wondered if it wasn't some backhanded way of trying to remind people to watch the show live so you make sure you don't miss anything.

I liked this episode quite a lot.  Sure, much of the fair was so treacly over the top happy fun times and because it's this show and we can't ever have nice things, you knew it had to be a setup for something really horrible to follow.  I also get the complaint that it was almost entirely B and C list characters we didn't have huge connections to killed. (Although to be fair, they're running perilously short on A listers these days.)  But to pull off something this big nine seasons in with a show that just last season felt increasing tired and on its last legs after already having survived the upheaval of losing its original lead is an accomplishment.  My one real quibble is that it didn't end with the reveal of the pikes and save Siddaq's telling the "story" until next week as that would have added it to the list of more classic episodes that had great stark enders like Sophia coming out of the barn or Merle's hand.

I never cared that much about Henry himself as the character was never written or acted well as much as I care what his loss represents.  Even the shitty Hilltop teens, as well as Henry, were the future.  And he was Carol and Ezekiel's kid.  He was hope long after she'd given up on that, the first kid she didn't actively push away since The Grove.  It's also the loss of potential.  Hilltop lost its relatively new leader and the closest thing it had to a doctor.  Our cowboy cosplayers were killed before we ever really got to know them or what the backstory might have been for their cowboys of greater NOVA shtick.  You can't leave that unanswered to live peaceably side by side with people who do that sort of thing over nebulous claims to territory.

Rewatching the episode, I'm struck again by how quick all of the leaders were to agree to give Lydia sanctuary when they already knew they were dealing with some seriously murderous nutjobs.  Yes, it's nice that all save initially Tara wanted to be high minded about helping this girl out but Michonne's argument about previous leaders taking chances letting each of them as strangers in fell rather flat with that in mind.  Nobody was actively attacking their communities or marching up to their gates making grandiose threats because Rick didn't immediately hand Michonne or Tara over.  Are they now all going to just pretend that Lydia wasn't the impetus for all of this, even after Beta told them point blank that it could have been avoided had they just given her back?  To her or to themselves?  No, it's not Lydia's fault that her mother is in fact a murderous nutjob leading other murderous nutjobs around, but there's no way she didn't know that there would be blowback to her decision to seek sanctuary among these communities.  Michonne told her as much.

[gaPeach]

Quote

AMC only slotted an hour for the episode on its official schedule.  While it was likely carelessness or their part, some small part of me wondered if it wasn't some backhanded way of trying to remind people to watch the show live so you make sure you don't miss anything.

I totally believe this.  They have gone over the 1 hour time slot before and it was always recorded.  Can you image the outcry back when the series was the hottest thing on TV if it hadn't?   Viewership has fallen and I think maybe this way the can see how much of an outcry they get from those fans of us left that still like the show and watch it every week.  I don't watch live because of all the commercials.  So yeah, I missed ending and only found out this morning.  

There is no other explanation that I can think of.  It was a big ending to this episode so how could they NOT extend episode???

[Lamima]

7 hours ago, Giselle said:

I never liked Tara. As time went on I just couldn't with her. I know she was pregnant in real life but a fat Tara when everybody else was starving just didn't fit. This episode it looked like Tara has lost some weight so they must have put a lock on the pantry door.

The actress playing Alpha needs to get that lock. And Luke. Gerry and his wife. Hmmm. Don't get fluffy people in a ZA, especially many years into it. No more giant cans of pudding laying around.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lamima

[SimoneS]

19 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I never cared that much about Henry himself as the character was never written or acted well as much as I care what his loss represents.  Even the shitty Hilltop teens, as well as Henry, were the future.  And he was Carol and Ezekiel's kid.  He was hope long after she'd given up on that, the first kid she didn't actively push away since The Grove.  

I will never get the Henry hate just like I never got the Carl hate. I was pretty ambivalent about both of them. Whatever I felt for them I consider their deaths to be significant losses for not just their parents, but for these communities and for humanity's survival as a whole. If children who are loved, protected, and trained cannot survive into adulthood, then as a species we have lost to this disease.

19 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Rewatching the episode, I'm struck again by how quick all of the leaders were to agree to give Lydia sanctuary when they already knew they were dealing with some seriously murderous nutjobs.  Yes, it's nice that all save initially Tara wanted to be high minded about helping this girl out but Michonne's argument about previous leaders taking chances letting each of them as strangers in fell rather flat with that in mind.  Nobody was actively attacking their communities or marching up to their gates making grandiose threats because Rick didn't immediately hand Michonne or Tara over.  Are they now all going to just pretend that Lydia wasn't the impetus for all of this, even after Beta told them point blank that it could have been avoided had they just given her back?  To her or to themselves?  No, it's not Lydia's fault that her mother is in fact a murderous nutjob leading other murderous nutjobs around, but there's no way she didn't know that there would be blowback to her decision to seek sanctuary among these communities.  Michonne told her as much.

I agree with this. Lydia is an abused child so I am fine with them giving her sanctuary, but it should have been a far more difficult decision. Tara's concerns were real and should not have been so easily dismissed because like you pointed out, these were different situations. I think the weather will prevent them from taking action, but I hope they intend to come up with a plan to take out that massive herd and those lunatics with it.  

Edited March 25, 2019 by SimoneS

[TWOPrefugee]

39 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

My DVR also did not record the last 20 minutes, because PS Vue TV thought the episode ended at 10 and "Into the Badlands" had started.  I was watching at the time, so I didn't miss the ending.  

I really hope this screw up wasn't due to AMC playing games with the schedule they feed to the TV providers to try to get more people to watch Into the Badlands.  

You know this is true don't you? It's not the first time that AMC has pulled this crap trying to goad viewers into watching some new program.