S02.E13: We Have Manners. We're Polite.

[NeelyO]

I still can't reconcile big-boned Russian sounding Rosa with medium boned Spanish sounding Rosa

Can someone remind me what Rosa's flashback was about? I just can't recall seeing her back story. We didn't see what Poussey actually did to land in jail, right? And speaking of Poussey, the actress playing that character is the only one out the entire cast that doesn't do it for me. With all the others, I only see the characters and totally buy into them but with not with Poussey. 

 

 

[Mindymoo]

Rosa was the bank robber.

[AmosTupper]

Just finished. Absolutely fucking satisfying from a storytelling perspective.

It will take me a while to ever root for Taystee or Crazy Eyes again.

Rosa freaking rocks! In fact I love all the older inmates so much . . . Red, Norma, Boo, Sister, etc.

Edited June 18, 2014 by AmosTupper

[Boton]

Finally finished the season.  I loved the end of the Rosa arc, even if "Don't Fear the Reaper" was a little on the nose.  I'm with her -- better to be taken down in a rain of gunfire after a high speed chase than to die a slow death looking at cinderblock walls.

 

My big problem was with Suzanne.  I know that we've seen throughout the series that she has episodes of psychotic or near-psychotic breakdowns, such as when she overreacted at the birth of her sister.  I also understand that her parents have struggled with this mental illness throughout her life, trying to grapple with something they probably didn't understand and may not have anticipated at the adoption.  I also know that she has become more violent over time, as witnessed by her beating of Piper at the end of last season.

 

But the final episode has Suzanne really breaking with reality in a way that I found too quick, in a way.  It seemed like all of a sudden she was calling her lock "Lady Locksley" and speaking in rhymes and not answering the investigators' questions in a way that seemed like her medication had been discontinued or something.  Prior to this, I've always found Suzanne to be on the edge, but at least lucid.  This seemed to be a little too far out of character for me.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Boton

[natyxg]

But the final episode has Suzanne really breaking with reality in a way that I found too quick, in a way.  It seemed like all of a sudden she was calling her lock "Lady Locksley" and speaking in rhymes and not answering the investigators' questions in a way that seemed like her medication had been discontinued or something.  Prior to this, I've always found Suzanne to be on the edge, but at least lucid.  This seemed to be a little too far out of character for me.

 

I thought it was because of the pressure she was under.

[questionfear]

I thought it was because of the pressure she was under.

Agreed. And she was trying to be honest, that she didn't know anything, while also trying to figure out if she was helping Vee, who had tried to convince her she (crazy eyes) did in fact do it. The multilayered manipulation combined with potentially disappointing a mother figure could easily drive Suzanne over the edge.

[Tara Ariano]

Stephanie Cangro's got some harsh words for Larry!

[Misstify]

We saw in an earlier episode that Suzanne had conversations with the mop, whom she named Moppet.

I think the whole Red situation really confused her.

[Blinkoshuman]

Oh, Suzanne...nobody cries like that unless their heart has been broken into a million pieces, or their dog has just died.  Turned me inside out, the weeping and clutching her Uno cards. Yep, she's back to being Uno, alright.  I disagree with the poster who said that the "crazy" could have been toned down a bit during the interrogation scene.  I think it was spot on if, as I assume, Suzanne is on the autism spectrum. The "crazy" gets intensified when she's under stress or involved in a confrontation. I'm actually kind of surprised she didn't smack herself in the head like she usually does when she's confused and stressed out.  I love that character so much.  If there's no Emmy involved here, there is no justice. 

 

I think we're going to see Nicki revisiting the stash of heroin in season 3.

 

Add me to the small list of people who didn't miss Alex one bit. 

 

So Vee Shawshanked her way out of Lichtfield and got run over by Rosa driving a stolen prison van with "Don't Fear the Reaper" cranking on the radio.  Yeah, bitch!

[CleoCaesar]

Great ending - and a good song to go with it (Rose speeds away to Blue Oyster Cult's "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" - but a big part of me thinks that Vee got off way, way too easily. She was a poison who thrived on spreading injury and misery and death. She really deserved something juicier than a quick, painless death.

 

I lost all sympathy for Crazy Eyes this season, especially after how savagely she attacked poor Poussey, so her crocodile tears made me roll my eyes. She's fucking insane and needs to be locked up in a maximum security psych ward. No sympathy anymore for Taystee or Cindy or Janae (the runner). It's weird - last season I really empathized with their situations, but this season turned them into violent, backstabbing, nasty thugs. Poussey was and is completely awesome though. Too bad she forgave Taystee so easily for her betrayal.

[stopeslite]

 

But the final episode has Suzanne really breaking with reality in a way that I found too quick, in a way.  It seemed like all of a sudden she was calling her lock "Lady Locksley" and speaking in rhymes and not answering the investigators' questions in a way that seemed like her medication had been discontinued or something.  Prior to this, I've always found Suzanne to be on the edge, but at least lucid.  This seemed to be a little too far out of character for me.

 

That part broke my heart, because I thought that what she was doing was trying to act more "crazy" to go along with what Vee wanted. Vee told her that she had done it and not remembered it, Vee told her that she was crazy and needed to take responsibility for it, so Suzanne thought it was now her job to convince the investigators that she had done it so acted as insane as she could to get the investigators to believe her. 

 

I am so glad I'm not the only one who thought Old Rosa was Eastern European and Young Rosa was Latina. That is the worst mismatch for flashbacks the show has had. 

I did love that Vee was a cardboard villain; as mentioned a few times already, sometimes people are just bad. I also saw the death coming, but thought I was kidding myself: "Wouldn't it be fantastic if Rosa hits Vee? They'd never do that"... boom. I also thought at first that it was going to be that Vee got stuck in the tunnel after the older woman put the cover back on. But this was so, so satisfying.

 

Daya and John can leave the show any minute now, as far as I'm concerned. Most boring storyline. Even more boring than Polly and Larry. I do like that Pornstache is trying to take responsibility, in his own twisted stupid way. Poor guy. 

[DearEvette]

Really good season.  Upon reflection it felt darker and meatier than the first.

 

Interesting how we got deeper looks and more character development for some last season favorites (Piper, Taystee, Poussey, Morello, Suzanne and Gloria)  while getting bigger glimpses of earlier peripheral characters that went  a long way to explaining them (Fig, Black Cindy, Caputo, Sister Ingalls) , while still giving other characters meaty plot arcs to work through (Healy, Pennsatucky, Larry, Alex, Red, Daya/Bennett), while still managing to give key screen space to other characters (Boo, Nicky, Sofia, Watson, Miss Rosa) all the while introducing a couple of brand new characters that stamped their personailty indelibly on the season (Vee, Soso).  Plus they fleshed out the guards more so that they weren't these faceless day players.

 

If you think about it, it was a master class in how to keep a lot of character & plot balls in the air without letting them drop.

 

Regards Suzanne -- my overwhelming feeling is one of immense sadness for her and anger on her behalf.  If nothing else, the fact that those two inspectors who clearly saw that she was not mentally of sound mind, were willing for her to take the rap just so they could go home, goes to illustrate how profoundly she is being underserved by a system that either is not equipped to or is unwilling to deal with criminals with mental issues.   Suzanne was nothing more to Vee than that mop Vee broke to threaten Cindy with.  She was nothing but a weapon for Vee who used her till Suzanne was broken and then she threw her away.  And If schemers like Red and Gloria can be easily taken in by Vee, someone like Suzanne had no chance.

 

The only dud the whole season for me, was the Daya/Bennett story.  To me those two have no chemistry whatsoever and every thing that came out of both their mouths just annoyed the heck out of me.

 

Last observation:  They did a fantastic job of casting all the younger aged actresses in the flashbacks.  Not only did they look like the other actresses, a lot of them captured the mannerisms of the older ones really well.  I was especially struck by the resemblance between young Rosa and older Rosa.

 

Final bit of trivia:  I was tickled to learn that Miss Rosa was protrayed by Barbara Rosenblat who is one of my very favorite audiobook narrators.  She is a fantastic voice performer.

[Athena]

To be completely honest, I didn't even realize I was paying all that much attention to the stealth Ruiz storyline. (I didn't even know her name until I came here)  Not until that last scene with the Baby Daddy.  That was probably the sweetest moment in the whole season for me and I didn't even know I cared.

 

What I loved about this storyline was that the Baby Daddy/BF looked tough and somewhat indifferent, but he never was. In the visitation where Ruiz told him how to deal with this woman asking for money, he nodded proudly and listened intently to her indicating they were a team. When she tells her baby that Daddy must talk to her every day, Baby Daddy is clearly verklempt. The actors sold it really well. I've seen the BD in other things, but he made it. I wonder if we'll get a backstory on them next season.

 

On the surface, their relationship seemed to have been one of the most healthiest romantic relationships on the show.

[carsonfan]

Loved the ending with Miss Rosa! While I did enjoy this season and getting to know more about the other characters I still preferred season one as a whole. I already knew going in that LP would only be in 4 episodes so I tried to prepare myself for the lack of Alex and Piper/Alex but boy did I miss her terribly. Thankfully by binge watching she appeared again much sooner than on a normal once a week show so that part was good at least. I can't wait to see Alex back at Litchfield and back in Piper's orbit again with the ticking time bomb of Piper getting her sent back to prison hanging over their heads. These two are completely dysfunctional but it makes for fascinating tv and I can't get enough. They both have their screwed up ways of doing things and doing things for the wrong reasons sometimes but underneath it all they love each other. I do believe Piper's main reason for getting her sent back there was a combination of safety/not wanting to lose her forever/just plain wanting her close to her again based on the loving look while reading all the letters. Looking forward to Alex being back with the other inmates too. Cannot wait for season 3!

[DangerousMinds]

Alex could very well be in a lot more danger in prison than out, so I don't buy that Piper reported her for "safety" in any way, shape, or form.

[DrLar]

As soon as Rosa drove off in the van, I thought "She's gonna run over Vee with that van!" and that scene from The Crying Game was exactly what I pictured. haha

 

I was afraid she would kill or injure several nuns.. but nice heads up by the guard and he got them to safety, after she busted out then I thought of Vee... 

 

So Alex broke what part of her parole before the officer got there? she bought tickets out of the city of something? but having a gun would certainly do it, back to prison you go!

[Athena]

I was afraid she would kill or injure several nuns.. but nice heads up by the guard and he got them to safety, after she busted out then I thought of Vee... 

 

So Alex broke what part of her parole before the officer got there? she bought tickets out of the city of something? but having a gun would certainly do it, back to prison you go!

 

Piper submitted the tip via Polly about Alex leaving town. This prompted Crocket to check on Alex. Maybe she could have weaseled out by lying, but that gun sealed her fate.  

[Xena]

"Run nuns, run!"

 

I could not stop laughing.  And singing to the nuns to make them go away!  I'm loving the extra time with the guards this season.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Xena

[Kristen]

"Run nuns, run!"

 

I could not stop laughing.  And singing to the nuns to make them go away!  I'm loving the extra time with the guards this season.

O'Neill is so great. He steals every scene he's in even when he's only standing (or walking place!) in the background. His improv banjolele songs were such a hoot.

[CleoCaesar]

To be completely honest, I didn't even realize I was paying all that much attention to the stealth Ruiz storyline. (I didn't even know her name until I came here)  Not until that last scene with the Baby Daddy.  That was probably the sweetest moment in the whole season for me and I didn't even know I cared.

 

Same here. In their other scenes, I thought the Baby Daddy was cold, uninterested in parenting, resenting that Ruiz is in prison and leaving him to care for a baby he doesn't want. But no! He's actually a good dad and cares a lot about the baby and Ruiz as well. It was a stealthy heartwarming scene. Loved it.

[configdotsys]

I had never seen this show. People at work were talking about it and since I was off this past week, I figured I'd give it a watch and see what all the fuss was about.

 

I just now turned off the Roku after watching the finale of S2 and my head is a whirlwind of emotion. I have seen every single episode of this show and I can say with certainty, that never has a show consumed me so. I found myself thinking about the characters when I was not even home. Some events over the course of the 2 seasons stayed with me for days afterward.

 

My thoughts:

 

The Bennett/Daya thing is so 'whatever' to me and I just don't really get it. I don't remember if I saw why Daya is in prison but since it is such low security, I would guess that the people there are not serving tremendously lengthy sentences. There hasn't been anything said about when Daya would get out. Their storyline is just boring and the same thing over and over again.

 

Suzanne: This is the character in the show that has affected me the most. I started off loving her but at the end, I cannot stand her. It seemed to me that before Vee came along, she was a wacky person with issues and Vee took advantage of that. What I did not understand was why they went the full on out crazy lunatic when SIS showed up. She came across as an out of control babbling maniac and it seemed way over the top. It was not clear to me if she was putting on the lunacy to take the fall for Vee; I did not get that impression. That she zoned out in a rage during Poussey's beating in the bathroom because she was doing it for Vee is understandable but talking to her lock, and the whole British accent sounding babble in the SIS interview was very strange to me. If she was full on crazy throughout the series, I could totally get it, but she wasn't.  

 

I was a little confused by the kitchen lady's concoction with the dog hair. What was that supposed to do? It looked like the lady that does not speak blew the stuff into the air way too late for it to have hit Vee, but Vee brushed her hair with her hand on that side so maybe it did hit her? It was difficult to figure that out.

 

For days, I had a lump in my stomach because the prison threw Jimmy into the streets. I still think about that scene and it breaks my heart.

 

Piper is probably one of least likable people I have ever seen on a television show. She is a narcissistic bitch that does nothing for the benefit of others. I have not read the book because the many friends I have that read it say that you can't go more than a few pages without hearing how pretty and smart she is and that she went to Smith college.

 

I thought her getting Vause busted was for one reason only: she has nothing now. Protection be damned, I am lonely and there's nothing else available so I'm going to get her back in here. I hope Vause never speaks to her again.

 

I cannot wait to watch these two seasons again because I'm sure that looking back, I will notice things I missed the first time around.

 

My thoughts are probably jumbled here. For that, I apologize but I am still reeling from watching 26 episodes of this show over five days. 

 

The choice of Don't Fear the Reaper with Rosa driving that van was fantastic.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Config

[Linnee]

But I'm also not going to think she's dead until I see the funeral.

I agree. Maybe I watched too many soap operas in the 80s...

[charming]

This episode felt too much wrapped up in a bow for my taste but I was still satisfied.

 

It's a shame to me that some viewers will only accept black characters if they're "magical" or "sassy"-- Suzanne, Taystee and Cindy are more than cute gifset opportunities.

 

This entire season I was dreading what would happen to Suzanne once Vee dropped her. Suzanne's been fighting for acceptance her entire life. She's alone in prison with no friends or support. She's mocked, insulted, and degraded. Here comes Vee who treats her with respect and kindness. Vee invites her into a group, builds her up, makes her believe she's loved. Of course Suzanne is going to be loyal to Vee. She will protect Vee if she thinks she's in danger by attacking Poussey.  She was willing to confess to a crime just because Vee told her to do it.  Those tears got to me. She's right back to where she started. Nobody caring about her. After all, it's not like Red will ask her to join her family. Bravo to Uzo Aduba. I hope she's recognized by her peers in the industry for her work this season.

 

Also kudos to Lorraine Toussaint. It's not often an actress has the opportunity for this type of role. She manipulated everyone to get what she wanted. Hell, she even managed to make Red believe there was a truce. I don't blame Taystee, Cindy and Watson for falling under her spell. She gave them hope, love, stability, status, power and money. They didn't think far enough ahead to realize that everything has a price. Poussey was able to stand her ground and I loved that she never gave up on Taystee. I adore their friendship and I was happy to see them makeup.

 

The other tie ups felt a little rushed to me. The reporter is still out there. There's thousands of dollars still missing. So Fig resigning wouldn't be the end of an inquiry. I would imagine that there would be a DNA test done on the baby if Mendez is prosecuted for rape.

Edited June 28, 2014 by charming

[TheGourmez]

 

To be completely honest, I didn't even realize I was paying all that much attention to the stealth Ruiz storyline. (I didn't even know her name until I came here)  Not until that last scene with the Baby Daddy.  That was probably the sweetest moment in the whole season for me and I didn't even know I cared.

 

I told my husband two episodes earlier that Ruiz's husband was my favorite because of how he said barely anything in response to her motor-mouthing speed visits. But I always thought he was probably a good guy, just quiet, which was such a fun contrast. I was SO worried that the cancelled transfer was a bait-and-switch and that Figueroa wouldn't be out after all, so when she was really, truly out, that scene of the husband gushing was just beautiful.

[Tara Ariano]

Alex pitted O'Neill's little ditty against one by Doug from Weeds. Who will win?!

[MMLEsq]

I would imagine that there would be a DNA test done on the baby if Mendez is prosecuted for rape.

I don't think there would need to be.  It's not a question as to whether they had sex -- Mendez has admitted they did.  The way I understand it, prisoners can't legally consent, so I can't see what kind of defense he would have.  Mendez is publicly acknowledging the baby as his, so unless that changes and he decides he wants to fight a requirement that he pay child support, I don't see why a DNA test would be done.  I'm not sure how the birth certificate would be handled however -- would Daya be able to list Bennett on the birth certificate without it causing problems for him?

[BabyMo]

I think I watched 3 episodes today, so things are blending together but Suzanne was definitely very frantic when her lock was missing. I'm another one who was very moved by the scene of her sobbing with her Uno cards.

There are no words to describe the degree of completely appalling deception from Vee that she got Suzanne to confess to attempts murder by giving her a deck of cards and promising to play with her later.

Suzanne is my favorite character. I'm not convinced she's on the spectrum; someone mentioned that possibility on this thread, and I can see why they would think that. I do think that Suzanne shows signs of dependent personality disorder.

Lady Locksley was just such a whimsical thing to say. It shows that she's living in a fantasy world.

[Iseut]

Emmy voters have a tough choice ahead of them. Uzo Aduba was so amazing. Those huge, trusting eyes when she was trying to believe Vee's story that Suzanne had slocked Red just broke my heart. (As did her full-on sobbing in the aftermath, but the actress was able to show Suzanne struggling to mentally process all of these false memories and it was astounding to watch.) I also loved her going on about Red as the Heat Miser in front of the investigators, and you could see the moment where she started thinking "But wait, yeah, I do like Red! She's the Heat Miser! Why would I attack the Heat Miser?" and getting more and more visibly mentally distressed from that point on.

 

Aduba and Toussaint are so brilliantly expressive that they would still have stolen the show even if their characters had no dialogue. 

 

Vee had what was coming to her, but I still felt that the ending, though superficially satisfying, was a leeeetle cheap. Vee is a master manipulator and there are many other women in that prison. Yes, she had many sides against her, but I don't believe for a second that she wouldn't have weaseled her way into position as the head of another "family" and just continued to mentally/physically torture those that had turned her out. Going on the run didn't match what we knew of her character.

 

Other than that, the finale was beautifully done and tied up the storylines neatly, but not too neatly. Can't wait for S3!

[DangerousMinds]

The Heat Miser comment may have been my favorite part of this season!

[Advance35]

Also kudos to Lorraine Toussaint. It's not often an actress has the opportunity for this type of role. She manipulated everyone to get what she wanted. Hell, she even managed to make Red believe there was a truce. I don't blame Taystee, Cindy and Watson for falling under her spell. She gave them hope, love, stability, status, power and money.

 

This is why I understood why Taystee, Cindy and Watson joined up with Vee and stayed with her through  it all.   Thier circle was at the bottom of the power totem poll in the beginning of the season (and they probably are again now that Vee is gone),  they didn't have anyone running the kitchen, they didn't have a forward thinker (to an extent) like Red/Gloria.   Than along comes Vee who doesn't just give them direction but helps them rise in the power structure of Litchfield.   Gloria and her girls came crashing into the other bathroom because they were confident they could get away with it, but Vee made it so messing with their clique (Suzanne, Taste, Cindy, Watson) came with consequences.

 

When Nicky and Morrillo were looking at Cindy and Watson like "How can you pal around with her?"  I was thinking, "Cause they like not being on the losing side for a change.",  What's Red ever done for them.   When Vee asked for an extra toothbrush, we saw how Morrillo treated her (when Vee was an unknown), I have know doubt that's how Cindy and Watson were treated upon their arrival.

 

Vee was a really good villain because she could have very easily been a positive force for her girls all the time (instead of when it was just to her benefit).

[Desperately Random]

.Vee had what was coming to her, but I still felt that the ending, though superficially satisfying, was a leeeetle cheap. Vee is a master manipulator and there are many other women in that prison. Yes, she had many sides against her, but I don't believe for a second that she wouldn't have weaseled her way into position as the head of another "family" and just continued to mentally/physically torture those that had turned her out. Going on the run didn't match what we knew of her character.

 

I didn't think that Vee ran because she lost her "family" I thought she ran because she realized that she was going to be held accountable for the assault/attempted murder of Red. She thought she had Suzanne set up to take the fall but then Black Cindy and Janae said they were going to tell the SIS the truth. Vee had to know at that point there was a good chance she was going to be convicted and sent to Max. I think that is why she decided to run while she still could.

[questionfear]

I didn't think that Vee ran because she lost her "family" I thought she ran because she realized that she was going to be held accountable for the assault/attempted murder of Red. She thought she had Suzanne set up to take the fall but then Black Cindy and Janae said they were going to tell the SIS the truth. Vee had to know at that point there was a good chance she was going to be convicted and sent to Max. I think that is why she decided to run while she still could.

Agreed. Vee's power came from influencing her fellow prisoners, she had no real power over the guards. Even Red, who had influence over Caputo and Healey, couldn't regain her power easily by leveraging her relationships with them. Vee knew she'd head right to max, because SIS wasn't going to be manipulated easily.

[GreekGeek]

I was a little confused by the kitchen lady's concoction with the dog hair. What was that supposed to do?

 

I wondered the same thing. I thought it was some weird sort of magic, intended to kill Vee. There seemed to be quite a lot of teasers as to how Vee would meet her end. When I saw the gardening lady out in the greenhouse boarding up the tunnel, I thought she had killed Vee and stuffed her body down there. Then I thought her former followers would surround and beat her to death. Having her run over by Rosa was a little pat, but satisfying. Loved that final dissolve of old dying Rosa back into young beautiful Rosa.

 

I hope Caputo makes a go of it in Fig's place. He seems a genuinely decent fellow. I'm glad he didn't back down on blowing the whistle on Fig after she gave him that blow job. Fig wondered whether he could go forty eight hours without fouling up, and he had two prisoners escape in what seemed like a lot less time.

 

I hope Suzanne can find some real friends, but it seemed to me that her weirdness was ramped up a lot compared to last season. Previously she had that bug-eyed stare, but seemed pretty normal when she wasn't under major stress. This season she seemed to have a lot more odd mannerisms, like that scrunched up way of sitting and those strange gestures.

 

I'm not especially looking forward to Piper and Alex's Strange Romance, The Sequel.

[mansonlamps]

I don't know about Crazy Eyes being somewhat normal before, she did pee outside Piper's bunk after all. That's pretty out there.

[bravelittletoaster]

Piper to Suzanne in the season 1 finale: "You have to admit, you do come on a bit strong."

[eXiled]

I never, not for one second, believed that Suzanne was ever normal. Shit, when Alex talked to Piper briefly, Suzanne threw pie at her. Nothing stressful about that. The peeing incident has been mentioned. She's full on crazy whether she's swirling with Dandelion, beating Poussey down for Vee, or telling her mommy how she likes to wear her hair. And I love her for it. I don't ever want her disappearing into psych.

[GreekGeek]

I know that Suzanne was never "normal." My comment was about her mannerisms--they seemed much more pronounced this season. She can't say anything without contorting her face and body.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I chalked it up to her stress levels. Suzanne seems to get worse when she's upset, and Vee had a tendency to keep everyone on edge. 

 

I hope she goes back to her Bantu knots. They were pretty on her. 

Edited July 12, 2014 by Mrs OldManBalls

[nodorothyparker]

Emmy voters have a tough choice ahead of them. Uzo Aduba was so amazing. Those huge, trusting eyes when she was trying to believe Vee's story that Suzanne had slocked Red just broke my heart. (As did her full-on sobbing in the aftermath, but the actress was able to show Suzanne struggling to mentally process all of these false memories and it was astounding to watch.) I also loved her going on about Red as the Heat Miser in front of the investigators, and you could see the moment where she started thinking "But wait, yeah, I do like Red! She's the Heat Miser! Why would I attack the Heat Miser?" and getting more and more visibly mentally distressed from that point on.

 

 

This.  They've never told us specifically what Suzanne's diagnosis is, and it's entirely possible that it's a cluster of things or even that she managed to reach adulthood without one.  A lot of people who are now adults were never properly treated and with parents who were apparently in denial about just how deep her issues were, it's possible.  Whatever it is, it seems pretty obvious she's not being treated appropriately in the prison now.  The utter casualness and indifference with which that the SIS agents and even Healy initially were willing to let her take the fall for Red's attack were appalling and yet pretty indicative of how mental illness tends to be handled.

 

As a parent of a child with autism and related behavorial/mental issues, the story of Suzanne and Vee this season has been both mesmerizing and incredibly difficult and painful to watch. So much of it has been familiar, from rages and acting out that she couldn't clearly explain or even fully remember later, to self injury and confusion when stressed, to just general weirdness that other people find offputting, to the terrible vulnerability people like this have in wanting to be loved and accepted and knowing that they're often not going to get it.  Aduba is doing such an incredible job with this role in making this feel so real that at times I've had to look away.

[Hanahope]

Haha, “the black one, the one with the hair” so descriptive.

 

Wtg Caputo, letting Fig blow you after you already gave the files to the warden.  Beer can, lol.  Gotta think Caputo will do something better, since he might actually spend the money on the prison rather than himself or a political campaign.  But poor Caputo, his second day, lol.  Loved how Bennett tried to “man up” and Caputo told him to forget it.

 

I understand that Vee had to blame someone, to try and finish the investigation quickly, but that was a bad move using Janae and Cindy (and perhaps others) to blame Suzanne. All that did was, as shown, turn them against her because if Vee would turn on Suzanne, it was just a matter of time before she turned on them, as she started to show with Cindy, so why show any loyalty.  Vee should have blamed someone else that all of them would be on board with, like perhaps say Boo, since there was now bad blood between Boo and Red.  I guess it was easy to blame Suzanne because of her mental issues.  Does Suzanne realize that completely, or does she just miss Vee?

 

I know we’re not shown exactly what Suzanne did, but there was a mention of her doing ‘something’ to an older neighbor lady that she wanted to forget, but couldn’t.  I’m going to guess it was some sort of assault, but not sure why that would be a federal crime.

I have to wonder why Red hugged Vee when she came back, considering Vee had Red beat up the first time they worked together.  I presume they came to some sort of working arrangement, but Vee still used her threat of another beat down to keep Red in line, so its hard to believe Red would subsequently embrace her. 

 

I forgot why the Ingalls was still not eating?  Just to improve prison conditions in general?  All the original demands were met, so what did she want?

 

Not sure why people didn’t show up to Healy’s Safe Place.  He brought cookies!  Tucky sure made a turn around in the attitude dept. so at least Healy has done some good. 

 

Didn’t think Vee would cop to what happened to RJ.  Or was Taystee just seeing if V would confirm her suspicions.

 

Lol Piper wanted Vaus parole violated to bring her back to her, to save her from the drug king pin, or just a little bit of payback?  Maybe all three.  Of course Larry the douche wouldn’t do it, but at least Polly remembered Piper is her friend.

 

Go Rosa go!!!  What a great ending.  Thank you Rosa!  Go die with your boots on. And apparently, don’t mess with voodoo either.

[janie jones]

I have to wonder why Red hugged Vee when she came back, considering Vee had Red beat up the first time they worked together.  I presume they came to some sort of working arrangement, but Vee still used her threat of another beat down to keep Red in line, so its hard to believe Red would subsequently embrace her.

I got the impression that they're the kind of frenemies where they prefer to pretend they don't hate each other's guts.

[mledawn]

I think that's how Red views their relationship, and Vee just mimics it back to her because she's a sociopath. Vee is a master manipulator.

[kelslamu]

I'm glad it was Rosa who did Vee in.  I couldn't stand Suzanne as her little minion.  I don't understand the draw of Daya either.  Daya, John, Larry, and Polly are story lines I could do without.  I'm hoping Polly dumps Larry.  She just had a baby, was feeling overwhelmed, no doubt hormonal when she falls for him and they think she's not going to possibly have a change of heart in a few months?  Also, I think Larry's a real douche.  Piper seems happy with whatever or whomever is glittery in front of her at the moment.  The guard's songs in front of the nuns were just extra special!

[ganesh]

 

Add me to the small list of people who didn't miss Alex one bit.

I'm interested in how their story ends, but I certainly don't need their story to be front and center, and I don't think the show needs that either to be compelling and successful.

 

I know Caputo is into self-promotion, but I do think he actually thought he could do a better job than Fig. Unfortunately, he's pretty fucked with two escaped prisoners. 

 

Bennett is an idiot and I have no idea why confessing to Caputo about the baby was a good idea. So, Caputo pretty much could throw you in jail for sexual assault, which, you [bennett] said yourself to Daya could happen if you did say anything. Honestly, I'd rather Caputo force him to transfer to another facility and just kill this storyline.

 

Had I not been someone who watch Weeds, I'd say the ending was kind of ludicrous. But I have watched Weeds, so I wasn't surprised, and I was actually hoping that would happen, and I laughed when it did. I kind of like that Vee had an ignominious ending. And there was something to it because she was all forceful about politeness and all that, so the one time she wasn't polite to someone else, it bit her in the ass. And by bit, I mean Rosa plowed her over. And by ass, I mean her ass was broken. This wasn't a great storyline for me because it only involved a few characters on the show, and to what end? By E9, E10, Vee was more one-note and it was trying for me to watch. 

[Hanahope]

I know Caputo is into self-promotion, but I do think he actually thought he could do a better job than Fig. Unfortunately, he's pretty fucked with two escaped prisoners.

 

Yes, but at least one prisoner died right away, and the other is going to die from cancer is a few weeks.  So at least there's not too much harm.

 

And he can always claim (especially to the warden), that the escapes were caused because of too little money for guards because of Fig's embezzlement.  Not like he could magically increase security in one day.

[jonesingjay]

I'd rather Caputo force him to transfer to another facility and just kill this storyline.

 

From your lips to the writer's ears. I never liked this storyline, and it's just dragging along. I don't care how it's resolved. Just wrap it up. 

[ganesh]

And he can always claim (especially to the warden), that the escapes were caused because of too little money for guards because of Fig's embezzlement.

 

Unless they can put a lid on it quickly, "escaped prisoner" in the news is just bad all around. Throwing Fig under the bus for it, is the typical PR move, but still could be effective. 

 

I like Caputo so I just don't want to see him in hot water all next season.

[Nilo]

I wondered the same thing. I thought it was some weird sort of magic, intended to kill Vee. 

 

 

 

 

I think it's more like a hex or curse.  That they're inviting some sort of bad karma/spirit to come and take action - just like Gloria's sister did with Gloria's boyfriend.  And once it's cast, who really knows what form that curse will take?  I mean, no one really could have predicted that Gloria's boyfriend would end up trapped in the closet with the stolen monies and set it (and himself) on fire.  

 

I'm not into hoo-doo or voo-doo or santeria or whatever it was they might have been doing, but that's what I think that was.  But I liken it almost to an audit - a way of getting the gods (or whomever) to take a second look at someone and then kind of see what unfolds after that.

[Athena]

I think it's more like a hex or curse.  That they're inviting some sort of bad karma/spirit to come and take action - just like Gloria's sister did with Gloria's boyfriend.  And once it's cast, who really knows what form that curse will take?  I mean, no one really could have predicted that Gloria's boyfriend would end up trapped in the closet with the stolen monies and set it (and himself) on fire.  

 

I'm not into hoo-doo or voo-doo or santeria or whatever it was they might have been doing, but that's what I think that was.  But I liken it almost to an audit - a way of getting the gods (or whomever) to take a second look at someone and then kind of see what unfolds after that.

 

Yeah, I thought the same. Whether it was true or not, I actually like that Gloria had this aspect to her life. Some of the stuff she learned are traditional methods and home remedies that work. It may not always work though. 

 

I also think the curse and hex gave a placebo therapy for those two. Neither of them could kill Vee, but this was a good way of hoping she would die and get her just desserts. 

[ChicksDigScars]

A season with almost no Laura Prepon was the best. gift. ever.  I don't know if it's the actress or character that bugs so much, but I enjoyed this season so much more than last season because she was hardly in it. And really, the same goes for Piper, who was sidelined for a lot of this season, and the show was all the better for it. Her self-involved character just grates on me so much. Now I'm bummed to read in this thread that Prepon will be a regular again in Season 3, which means Piper's story will be coming to the forefront again. Ugh. I'm already anticipating a lot of fast-forwarding every time those two are on screen together.

 

WOW. THANK YOU! I'll join you on the Prepon Hate Train and bring a bottle of hooch (but something a bit more tasty than the shit brown stuff that Poussey makes). 

 

I would rather watch a season with just the prison characters and NOT whiny puss boy Larry and Khaki Carrie Bradshaw AT ALL. And by extension, without Khaki Carrie on the show, her weird brother, psycho sister-in-law, neurotic best friend, and best of all, ALEX, would also be gone.  Having a show without those self-involved assholes is like getting a bowl of Lucky Charms, and having someone remove all the sucktastic cereal pieces, leaving just the yummy marshmallow treats.