S02.E13: We Have Manners. We're Polite.

[David T. Cole]

Several futures hang in the balance as the inmates face and confront their worst nightmares: Life will never be the same again.

Who will be first to post in here? Who will demonstrate their ability to get to the end the fastest?

 

Winner winner, mythical chicken dinner!

[Ms Lark]

Well, since I semi-binge-watched over the past two days, I gotta say the ending was perfect, especially for Rosa! I loved it! I think I enjoyed the last half of S2 more than the first half of S2 and S1 in total. Love it when the bad guys don't win, but don't want to spoil too much until others catch up and start posting.

[bluebonnet]

Whew so glad someone posted in here because I was feeling embarrassed with how fast I finished this season.  

 

I definitely bawled along with Suzanne.  It was heart-wrenching.  I agree, Ms Lark, that the second half of the season was easily the best.  

[ND22]

Me too. I was up until 4 am watching it. Loved Rosa running down Vee. Omg, all the nuns at the gate and what's his face singing them songs. Overall great season and I'm glad I'm not the only one that binged. Confession, I ate a boatload of gluten yesterday morning so I could have an excuse to stay indoors yesterday and last night so I could watch it...I, ummm, sort of self poisoned.

[Dusty]

Well...I guess they're even now.

[MizStaken]

Great season, problem is, it's over. But there's really not any sort of cliffhanger which is kind of a bummer. Glad Piper was able to get a little revenge on Alex.

Fitting ending for Vee.

[90PercentGravity]

I didn't feel like Piper was trying to get revenge. I thought she was trying to protect Alex, assuming she would be safer in prison.

 

To my ear, it felt like Young Rosa's accent didn't match Old Rosa's accent, and it was kind of distracting me the whole season, but I still loved the storyline.

 

Healy's misogyny is so disturbing, especially in the wake of the Elliot Rodger stuff. The way he constantly tells people he's the good guy and he cares is so creepy.

 

The solution to the Daya situation seems so obvious to me. Why can't she just put the baby up for adoption and John adopts it? Isn't that a thing? Being able to designate who adopts your baby?

[bluebonnet]

I agree.  I'm constantly surprised how terrible Daya and John are, especially with figuring out what to do with this baby.  Adoption should be something to consider, even if TV has to fib a bit to make it believable because I don't think John can just easily adopt without going through a lengthy process.  But I'd suspend disbelief for that plot.  They are just two really stupid people and drive me crazy.  I find it difficult to understand why everyone is always doting and fawning over Daya.  One reason for not understanding is completely shallow, but the other reason is just that she's so stupid and useless.  What is it about her that makes mommies and men fight over her? Not that John is any better.

[FreakyBunny]

That was almost a satisfying ending. Loved Rosa running down V and the look on her face just before she went for it. 

 

I really wanted to see Fig go down for fraud and embezzlement...but it could still happen during the "off season". I think she would look good in orange. 

 

Does Piper want Alex back in Litchfield for a) to not be alone b) Alex's safety c) revenge? d) all of the above? 

 

V was a great character who really knew how to work people. You could really see how she did a number on Mendoza to get what she wanted. V was a woman among girls. You could see her downfall coming, but it only made it sweeter in the end. I loved the look Mendoza gave Norma like "see, I told you it would work". 

[meatball77]

I finished a couple hours ago.  I got through all but two episodes last night.  The ending was satisfying.  Loved the songs the guard was singing for the nuns.

[Ms Lark]

I definitely bawled along with Suzanne.

Lord yes! If that scene alone doesn't get Suzanne/Crazy Eyes an Emmy nod, I don't know what could. I wasn't loving her this season until she was betrayed, but Aduba definitely puts in a solid performance.

 

Speaking of betrayal, I could not believe Vee's heinous behavior. Then to find out she was also responsible for JT's murder. Rosa running her down (for rudeness! Shades of Hannibal.) was just the best ever. I laughed so hard at that it was embarrassing! Old Rosa was a real gem.

Omg, all the nuns at the gate and what's his face singing them songs.

The songs themselves were priceless. I share no love for nuns (there are some good ones, but the evil ones really outweigh them)

 

The thing that most bugged me about Daya/John and Pornstash is the lack of a paternity test! They can be done before the baby is born. Not the best choice, but if someone is going down for it... Pornstash is going to be demanding visitation rights, I'm sure. I can't see it playing out well, but John and Daya are both very sweet and dumb and I still hope for the best for them in the end.

[bluebonnet]

 

 

Does Piper want Alex back in Litchfield for a) to not be alone b) Alex's safety c) revenge? d) all of the above? 

 

I would say all of the above.  And I would also say that Piper will give a different reason depending on the situation or moment.  All of those reasons are so intertwined with one another that it's hard to separate them anyway.  

[ApathyMonger]

The thing that most bugged me about Daya/John and Pornstash is the lack of a paternity test! They can be done before the baby is born. Not the best choice, but if someone is going down for it... Pornstash is going to be demanding visitation rights, I'm sure.

 

Well, it'll be hard for him to get visitation rights if he's in prison, but I could see him slipping through the cracks. I'm guessing once it's time for the baby to actually be born someone will do some calculations and see it doesn't work out, but they don't have much reason to suspect Pornstache isn't the father right now.

 

I knew Alex was going to end up back in prison at some point due to the announcement that Prepon would be a regular next season, but I thought they might leave that setup for then.

[FreakyBunny]

I would say all of the above.  And I would also say that Piper will give a different reason depending on the situation or moment.  All of those reasons are so intertwined with one another that it's hard to separate them anyway.  

I think at this point Piper can be manipulative enough to get whatever she wants from Alex. Does Alex know it was Piper who set the wheels in motion for Davey Crocket's bust? 

Well, it'll be hard for him to get visitation rights if he's in prison, but I could see him slipping through the cracks. I'm guessing once it's time for the baby to actually be born someone will do some calculations and see it doesn't work out, but they don't have much reason to suspect Pornstache isn't the father right now.

 

I knew Alex was going to end up back in prison at some point due to the announcement that Prepon would be a regular next season, but I thought they might leave that setup for then.

How does it not work out? All she has to say is she hasn't been with anyone else. Besides, medically, the clock doesn't start ticking until the missed period. That gives them lots of wiggle room to say it was Pornstache. But yeah, I would think a paternity test would be pretty standard here. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Personally, I think having Alex come back seems like a step backwards in a way.  I think Alex screwing Piper in the first episode should have been the wake up call to Piper.  I also think the show could survive without Alex, and maybe even Piper. 

 

The Vee story played so well with very little involvement from Piper that I think that the show could survive without her.  She's my least favorite part of the show.

[Sakura12]

I finished this at 1am. First time I ever binged watched a show. 

 

I loved when Rosa just stepped on the gas and ran over Vee, especially since it wasn't because Vee's a psychopath it was because she's rude. I kind of hope Piper did it a little bit for revenge and little bit to protect Alex. I was so happy that they didn't let Suzanne take the fall for beating up Red. Vee messed up that poor girl even more. She deserved to die for that. 

 

Still don't care about Larry and Piper's friend, I hope we don't see much of them next season. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Sakura12

[ApathyMonger]

Was anyone else surprised that Fig didn't know her husband was into dudes? I'd figured they had some arrangement, but I guess not.

[Dusty]

 

Does Alex know it was Piper who set the wheels in motion for Davey Crocket's bust?

She doesn't know right now but I'm pretty sure she'll figure it out.  Season 3 conflict ahead!

 

 

Does Piper want Alex back in Litchfield for a) to not be alone b) Alex's safety c) revenge? d) all of the above?

I'm going with all of the above.  I don't know if she's aware that it's all of the above. She'll probably rationalize it to herself that it was for Alex's safety, but I definitely believe that it was for all three of those reasons.

 

I don't understand how Alex is allowed to visit Piper. I thought while ex-cons are still under supervision they aren't allowed to visit prisons.  Piper's sister-in-law wasn't allowed in.  I mean I understand that it was for storyline purposes only, turn a blind eye to reality thing, but they shouldn't have had someone who isn't a convicted felon (as far as I know) be rejected from visiting and then have Alex visit.

 

If there was one part of this show that I could definitely do without it's the Daya/John storyline.  I care absolutely nothing about it.  They have zero chemistry and I don't even understand why she likes John much less loves him.  I could do without Larry too.  Now that I think about it I don't know which one I would choose to get rid of if I had the chance.  It's like the Sophie's Choice of storylines/characters I care the least about.

[KraftEasyMac]

Fuck. Yes. Rosa.

 

::Pumps fist in the air::

 

That is all I can muster for now.

 

ETA: I agree with all of this:

 

If there was one part of this show that I could definitely do without it's the Daya/John storyline.  I care absolutely nothing about it.  They have zero chemistry and I don't even understand why she likes John much less loves him.  I could do without Larry too.  Now that I think about it I don't know which one I would choose to get rid of if I had the chance.  It's like the Sophie's Choice of storylines/characters I care the least about.

Edited June 8, 2014 by KraftEasyMac

[FreakyBunny]

Another thing that bugged. Why is Nicky suddenly over her heroine temptation? Here she is with the mother load and it seemed as though she wasn't at all interested in using it. Maybe they'll bring it up next season as it was left in it's reasonably good hiding space. 

[90PercentGravity]

The way that she was laying there staring at it didn't suggest to me that she wasn't tempted.

[Happy to be here]

Wow just wow  That was wonderful.  I love Rosa escaping and Vee getting run over.  Susanne crying was heartbreaking.  She was the only one to remain loyal to Vee to the bitter bitter end because she had no one else.  Vee gave her a purpose and a sense of self worth that she never had before that is a hard thing to break.  All her other followers had figured out what a user Vee was.

 

Not sure how I feel about the Larry/Polly plot.  Not sure I really care except for how it affects Piper.   Larry had a point about Piper cheating on him with Alex but Piper had a bigger point about Larry moving on with her best friend....her married best friend...her married best friend with an infant baby.  Not cool Larry.

 

Don't care about the Daya/John stuff.  That storyline does nothing for me at all.  Wouldn't care if it went away for good.

 

Anything else of note?  Oh yeah Caputo is large and in charge.    Should I feel sorry for  Fig?....nah.  

 

Hey.....didn't expect to like Healy after last season but somewhere along the way I kinda started to...weird huh?  

Edited June 8, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[bentley]

 

I also think the show could survive without Alex, and maybe even Piper.

 

A season with almost no Laura Prepon was the best. gift. ever.  I don't know if it's the actress or character that bugs so much, but I enjoyed this season so much more than last season because she was hardly in it. And really, the same goes for Piper, who was sidelined for a lot of this season, and the show was all the better for it. Her self-involved character just grates on me so much. Now I'm bummed to read in this thread that Prepon will be a regular again in Season 3, which means Piper's story will be coming to the forefront again. Ugh. I'm already anticipating a lot of fast-forwarding every time those two are on screen together.

 

Two or three days in, and Caputo is already dealing with how many major scandals? Fig is somewhere laughing her ass off.

 

 

To my ear, it felt like Young Rosa's accent didn't match Old Rosa's accent,

 

So it's not just me. I kept wondering why young Rosa appeared to be Hispanic but old Rosa seemed to be of Eastern European descent.

[Clare]

That whole part with the big guard and the nuns was the funniest.  The at the end "Run Nuns, Run".  It killed me.  What a great end the season.  Loved seeing Rosa take off in the van.

 

I liked that Piper was just another character this season.  I think it works better with her just part of the ensemble.

 

I was so worried that Taystee and Poussey would end badly.  So happy to see their friendship restored at the end. 

[purplemouth]

When that Golden Girl started covering up the hole with boards, I was convinced that somehow the other entrance would get blocked and Vee would get stuck there. Not sure if I would have preferred that to Rosa running her down or not. Either way, I'm glad she's gone. A lot of characters have done terrible things on this show, but they always had a reason, no matter how stupid it was. Vee was just evil for evil's sake.

Edited June 8, 2014 by purplemouth

[Happy to be here]

I also think the show could survive without Alex, and maybe even Piper.

 

 

As and Piper/Alex shipper I was surprised at how much I didn't miss Alex.  Maybe because I enjoyed the friendship between Piper and Nicky and the snide comments about their relationship she made that was oh so true (Spy vs Spy but sexual etc)    Yes the show could survive without Piper or Alex but I am hoping it won't do that for at least another season or two because I like Piper and I think she makes a good protagonist.   The show does need someone to circle around and a center of gravity and Piper is the sun after all.  You will burn if you get to close but that is half the fun.

Edited June 8, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[smrou]

Was anyone else surprised that Fig didn't know her husband was into dudes? I'd figured they had some arrangement, but I guess not.

I thought the same thing.  When she caught him kissing the other dude and had that look of shock I said (because I talk to the TV when I'm watching things), "Wait, you didn't know?!"  

 

I definitely bawled along with Suzanne.  It was heart-wrenching.

I think if Crazy-Eyes cries, I cry.  That just broke my heart.  Actually, all the scenes of her being interrogated were heartbreaking too.  The fact that she trusted Vee more than she trusted herself.  So sad.

 

Another thing that bugged. Why is Nicky suddenly over her heroine temptation? Here she is with the mother load and it seemed as though she wasn't at all interested in using it.

Except that scene ended with her gazing at it like a lost friend.  I am very worried about Nicky's storyline next season if that scene was a sign of things to come.  

 

I also think the show could survive without Alex, and maybe even Piper.

I think you could take pretty much any individual character out and the show could survive.  But I don't want any of them to go, including Alex or Piper.  I did like that this season was less Piper-centric and more of an ensemble show, not because I have a problem with Piper but because I so enjoy the ensemble.  Though to be honest I thought it became a little overly Vee-centric.  Not that that whole storyline wasn't interesting, but just introducing a Big Bad--one who is quite obviously a Big Bad from the word "go"--and then dealing with her took up a bit more of the focus than I would have liked.  

 

Maybe if some of the other ongoing storylines had been really captivating I wouldn't have felt that way, though.  I mean, the whole hunger strike stuff wasn't very interesting to me.  I've never had any patience for the Daya/Bennett plot.  

[egavasc]

Either way, I'm glad she's gone. A lot of characters have done terrible things on this show, but they always had a reason, no matter how stupid it was. Vee was just evil for evil's sake.

I thought it was strange that the show didn't make an effort to explain Vee's motivations better. We only ever see her as manipulative and evil. With last season's baddies Pennsatucky and Healy, we got background info that explained why they were how they were. It didn't forgive their behavior but at least we understood their motivations a little better. Vee just wanted control and power and I would have liked to have a better rationale for why.

[CheekyBrat]

I am not invested in Larry and Polly's relationship, and I don't think I'd mind if I never saw them again, but I think they are better together than Larry and Piper were.  Piper was out of Larry's league (in my opinion).  Piper takes risks, has travelled (with a drug smuggler/distributor/dealer/whatever).  She's prepared to stand on the edge of reason for love or her values.  Mean while, Larry is too safe.  Boring.  I feel as though he is tethered to his parents.  Polly suits him in that sense.  She's safe and boring too.  

[leighdear]

That was a magnificent ending.  I really wanted Red to take out Vee personally, but putting soon-to-be-dead Rosa behind the wheel of that van was  awesome.

 

I like Susanne as a character, and the actress is wonderful.  I just wish they'd dial the crazy back just a tad on notWhoopie.  The scenery chewing got a little excessive for me in her interview with the investigators, but YMMV.

 

I can do without Larry next season, but I really like Polly.  I so much loved her reaction to finding flaming poop on her doorstep as "yeah, I deserved that."  I think that despite sleeping with Larry, she's been a good friend to Piper. 

 

The Daya/John thing doesn't bother me too much.  She can give birth, her family takes the baby til she gets out, then she marries John and they raise the baby.  Yeah, Pornstache may raise a fuss trying to "claim" the baby eventually, because New York State is sadly one where even a convicted rapist can exercise parental rights.  But if he's convicted, he's more likely to end up & jail and hopefully shanked by another inmate.  Aren't cops & CO's more likely to die in prison?  Something to hope for.....*LOL*

[natyxg]

Does Piper want Alex back in Litchfield for a) to not be alone b) Alex's safety c) revenge? d) all of the above?

 

I think it was option A. Alex isn't safe standing still at Litchflied, the baddie can just send an assassin there (and I expect that to happen next season). Her best bet was to disappear.  Alex is sneaky, she can survive fine in the street. She would've been fine.

 

I didn't see any need for revenge either.

 

What they show is Piper losing Larry and Polly. Then there's that talk she has with Soso about the loneliness of prison. Also, Alex tells her she has to disappear now and Piper begs her to not leave her. To top it off, towards the end Piper goes to her corner to read Alex's letters (BTW, why was that letter a photocopy?!!).

 

What I understood was that she felt abandoned completely, and desperately brought Alex back so she could have someone. I thought it was really shitty and worse than the shit Alex has pulled, frankly. She has 8 months left on her sentence, while Alex has years.

 

I was very disappointed by the amount of Piper this season, frankly. She's not a fantastic person, but I thought she was good as the central character. I don't like ensemble shows where it feels like there is no central character, they feel too messy for my taste, and that's how I felt this season (I kept thinking about Glee *shudders*). I also don't like it when they change things halfway through: if I liked the show how it was, with the focus on the characters they gave focus originally, I don't like it when they change it later because then it is going to be a hit and miss for me. In this season there was so much I couldn't care less about, while I was frustrated waiting for the stuff I signed up for to be touched upon again.

 

I really hated the Vee plot, specially. I thought it just took over and Vee was such a one note character. There was no depth to her and she just ruined all the characters she touched. By the end of the season I wanted pretty much all of the ones in her gang/storyline, with the exception of Possey (sp??) to fuck off. The actress was great, though.

 

I did like the Morello twist very much, though. And Rosa. And Gloria. And some background stories. Caputo in a band was fun.  But overall there wasn't any plot I really became interested in, sadly.

[Happy to be here]

Re: Vee I think Poussey explained her best.  She was a child molester without the sex.  She got off on power and on the outside she had no real power.  She was a low lever connect who was getting on in age.  At one point she probably got on with her looks and some intellect  but that only works for so long.   On the inside she had power and could manipulate minds like Tastey who she has been manipulating for years and Susanne who was just looking for someone to love her.  Once she had those two everyone else just fell in line.    However once she lost her hold on power it was only a matter of time before someone came after her hard.  I actually found her storyline fascinating and horrifying.  

 

I really hated the Vee plot, specially. I thought it just took over and Vee was such a one note character. There was no depth to her and she just ruined all the characters she touched

 

 

But that is what made it so brilliant.  You put her in the middle of best friends like Poussey and Tastey and then turn them against each other.  Give Susanne who has been an outsider all her life a place at the right hand of the mother and then turn her into a thug.    You give people who have never had power in their lives power and they will be yours ....until they see the cost.  

Edited June 8, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[natyxg]

Re: Vee I think Poussey explained her best.  She was a child molester without the sex.

 

I thought she was supposed to be a darker version of Red. Both like power, both play mother figures and both use contraband to gain that power. But Red actually cares about her girls, she even just introduces harmless stuff into the prison. Vee was just evil and she was one note to me because you never got to really see the human underneath, imo.

 

For example, I really liked what they did with Morello because usually in stalker stories we are only shown the stalked person and the stalker is vilified. But with Morello we see her side of the story too, and even though we realize that she may be batshit crazy and even dangerous, there is a person underneath that can be quite sweet and decent. She is fucked up and possibly in need of psychiatric help, not a demon, even though it is understandable that Chris would think of her like that.

 

With Vee she was just an evil bully and once I get her number, reaaaally early on, there was nothing else there for me.

 

But that is what made it so brilliant.  You put her in the middle of best friends like Poussey and Tastey and then turn them against each other.  Give Susanne who has been an outside all her life a place at the right hand of the mother and turn her into a thug.    You give people who have never had power in their lives power and they will be yours ....until they see the cost.

 

I didn't find it brilliant because that is one trope I haaateeee: putting someone in the middle who pits people against the other. I always end up siding with the one character who sees the truth, and not being able to deal with the others' blindness. in this case Tastee (sp?) and Cindy were pretty ruined for me. The other one I did feel bad for (the runner... gosh, I suck at names).

[jennylauren123]

I thought it was strange that the show didn't make an effort to explain Vee's motivations better. We only ever see her as manipulative and evil. With last season's baddies Pennsatucky and Healy, we got background info that explained why they were how they were. It didn't forgive their behavior but at least we understood their motivations a little better. Vee just wanted control and power and I would have liked to have a better rationale for why.

 

I think I understand why: There is no logical explanation for why psychopaths/sociopaths are the way they are. They do what they want with no regard for how their actions will affect others. Everything is done for their own satisfaction, to satisfy their own needs, whether it's for money, sex, power, whatever. No one else matters, and there is no logical explanation for why they are the way they are. They just are. Which is extremely scary!

[MrsR]

Wonderful end of the season.  Death takes out evil!

 

I could do without John and Daya if I had to cut a story line. I do like that they used Caputo's desire to be great at his job as a means to clear up the ugly possibilities. With no drama in their relationship hopefully all we'll get next year is the dramatic circumstances when she actually has the baby.

 

No frigging way Alex would be allowed to visit Piper in prison. Nope, I know for sure that a convicted felon cannot visit someone in prison.  So I call  bullshit on that.

 

But overall I love that the season ended in an upbeat tidy manner. I'm a bit surprised how much they have decided to turn this into a huge extended family dramedy, cons and guards together, and even more surprised that I don't mind it.

 

Fab season.

 

 

[Dusty]

 

I thought it was strange that the show didn't make an effort to explain Vee's motivations better. We only ever see her as manipulative and evil.

 

I think that's all there was really.  Sometimes people are just bad.  This is a show set in prison and some people are in prison because they truly do deserve to be there and needs to stay there.  I think it would be unrealistic if everyone on the show had a sympathetic backstory. 

 

 

What I understood was that she felt abandoned completely, and desperately brought Alex back so she could have someone. I thought it was really shitty and worse than the shit Alex has pulled, frankly. She has 8 months left on her sentence, while Alex has years.

 

I think most of her reasoning was wanting Alex with her but I also think the other two options also apply.  In her mind and it seems other prisoners, Alex screwed Piper twice over.  First with giving her up in the first place and second with the plea deal where she got to go free. So I do think revenge could also be part of the reason.  I also do think that Piper would believe that she's protecting Alex (or at the very least convince herself) by sending her back to prison.  While he could get someone to go after her (I hope it doesn't happen but wouldn't be surprised if it did) I don't really think Piper thought it through.  She just thinks prison could provide Alex with more protection from Kubra's people than being on the outside.  Whether or not that's true, I do believe she would believe that.

 

I do think that what Piper did to Alex is worse than what Alex did to Piper because of the reasons you stated.  Alex had a lot of time on her.  Piper practically has nothing compared to what Alex was facing. Or so it seems from what she said these past two seasons.  They could potentially get out of it because they never stated how long exactly and could fudge it so the plea deal lessened her sentence or something.  I don't know.  I'm not sure how all that works in real life.  I do know that they'll fudge the realism of a prison to suit their storyline needs. Like how Alex was somehow able to visit Piper.

 

I really like the Alex character. I find her interesting and I also find the Alex/Piper story interesting.  Saying all that I didn't really miss her when she wasn't on but I did find myself excited when she did show up again.  I really need to learn how to pace myself so the time between seasons isn't so long. Damn you Netflix and damn my insomnia!

[natyxg]

In her mind and it seems other prisoners, Alex screwed Piper twice over.  First with giving her up in the first place and second with the plea deal where she got to go free. So I do think revenge could also be part of the reason.

 

Yeah, she totally has reasons to want revenge. Hell, if that was the reason they showed as the main one I would find it less messed up and more understandable, but I didn't see it. Leading up to her call to Larry I didn't see any concern for Alex's safety either. In fact, Alex was doing exactly what Piper told her she should do: move away.

 

What I saw was the show highlighting Piper's loneliness (in the scene with Alex, with Larry and Polly telling her they were dating, in her scene with Soso, when she pulls out the Alex letters) and her wanting Alex back so she could have company. And I thought that was reallyyy messed up. 

 

I do think that what Piper did to Alex is worse than what Alex did to Piper because of the reasons you stated.  Alex had a lot of time on her.  Piper practically has nothing compared to what Alex was facing. Or so it seems from what she said these past two seasons.  They could potentially get out of it because they never stated how long exactly and could fudge it so the plea deal lessened her sentence or something.  I don't know.  I'm not sure how all that works in real life.  I do know that they'll fudge the realism of a prison to suit their storyline needs. Like how Alex was somehow able to visit Piper.

 

I thought about all of this too. The hole in the shed is still open, maybe they can just escape together or something. lol.

[seachica]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who binge watched this already!  I hate releasing an entire season of episodes at once, because good TV is apparently my crack. I can't stop at just one episode

 

This is apparently an unpopular opinion, but I don't like how they ended the Vee storyline. All season they created an interesting, truly evil villain. And then in one episode, everyone sees the light, Vee loses all her minions (except Crazy Eyes), and is killed while trying to escape. It just feels too neat. In real life, Vee would have regrouped, found a new gang, and continued onward. She was painted as a survivor and fighter. What a waste of a character to create only to kill her off at the end of the season. 

 

I like Larry and Piper's best friend together, far more than I liked Larry with Piper. He's such a mensch; Piper was too wild for him long term. 

 

The only character I really don't like after this season is Daya. Does she really think it's loving to make your baby daddy go to prison?!  His reaction is only believable if he were painted as desperate for female attention, but he hasn't been portrayed that way, and the character is too cute and well adjusted to be believable as that desperate.

 

It feels strange to me that this season has no real cliff hanger. All of the big storylines were wrapped up. 

[Jessie Q]

Awesome season. My favorite background story belonged to Morello (a twisted Muriel's Wedding?). I find that actress captivating in this show.

 

When Rosa said she wanted to "go out in a blaze of glory" it was telegraphed pretty early and obviously that she was going to steal the van, but I still cheered loudly when she did so. {I did wonder throughout the hospital visits why Morello didn't also go inside the hospital or at least hand over the keys...}.

 

Someone in production needs to explain the young Rosa/old Rosa accent mismatch.

[natyxg]

{I did wonder throughout the hospital visits why Morello didn't also go inside the hospital or at least hand over the keys...}.

 

That bothered me so much. Like, couldn't she just sit there with Rosa?

 

Another thing that bothered me was the fact that no one even brought up the possibility of escaping even though there was a hole in the shed that lead to the outside.  Oh, well. At least Vee used it.

[Totale]

I know from reading an interview with Jenji that she's at least a little bit uncomfortable with the Netflix/bingeing situation.  I think she said there was some regret that she spends a year of her life working on something and rather than have people talking about it and anticipating the next chapter over the course of months they will do what I just did, gobble it down over the course of a couple days (in my case, stealing time from work ;)) and they're still left wanting more.  That understood, having just finished all I have to say right now is

 

Fuckin' A!

 

Now I'm gonna go make dinner.

[hypnotoad]

 

rather than have people talking about it and anticipating the next chapter over the course of months they will do what I just did, gobble it down over the course of a couple days

 

You know though, I tend to do this with most tv shows these days. Netflix has certainly ruined me!

 

 

Another thing that bothered me was the fact that no one even brought up the possibility of escaping even though there was a hole in the shed that lead to the outside

 

But everyone wasn't aware of it, right? I mean certainly the ladies working out there knew but I didn't realize it was common knowledge.

 

 

Someone in production needs to explain the young Rosa/old Rosa accent mismatch

 

Yeah, that was pretty bad.

[natyxg]

But everyone wasn't aware of it, right? I mean certainly the ladies working out there knew but I didn't realize it was common knowledge.

 

No, not everyone knew. But the ones that did were all "cool, we got a way to get contraband in!" instead of considering escaping, even if they immediately shot down the idea for whatever reason. It was just weird to me that it wasn't brought up at all.

[LadyNebula]

Go, Rosa, go!

[AlliMo]

I thought it was strange that the show didn't make an effort to explain Vee's motivations better. We only ever see her as manipulative and evil. With last season's baddies Pennsatucky and Healy, we got background info that explained why they were how they were. It didn't forgive their behavior but at least we understood their motivations a little better. Vee just wanted control and power and I would have liked to have a better rationale for why.

 

I actually kind of liked that Vee was completely amoral evil. While I appreciate getting the backstories that humanize the characters and show what influences led to them making the choices that they do, I also like that they show that some people out there really are just straight up rotten and destructive through and through.

 

I can understand why nobody thought of escaping. It isn't worth the risk for those with shorter sentences, and for the lifers, let's face it - where are they going to go? How are they going to support themselves? They're almost certain to get caught, and then end up being transferred to a far worse maximum security prison. There's comfort in the familiar.

Edited June 9, 2014 by AlliMo

[Skittl1321]

I agree that there isn't a lot of motivation to escape minimum security prison, because these people know they have a sweet gig.  They'll either be out soon, or they'll be stuck for a long time in a much much better situation. How often do escapes actually work, in that they never get picked up again? Really really bad risk.

 

I do feel like the Vee storyline lacked closure. We never got real motivation for what turned her into a god awful human being, or really for what even sent her back to prison this time (or the previous time).

 

As to the binge watching- I find the show a lot more enjoyable if I can watch it all in a weekend. This way, I really get to immerse myself in it, I remember what happened (though that means I have questions like "why was nothing said by any of the guards or most of the prisoners about the girl who was just randomly killed?"), and I can watch them all.  If I have to watch on TV, I a) most likely don't even get the channel since I get FOX, ABC, and CBS only and b) will miss an episode here or there.  Netflix releasing the series all at once makes it more enjoyable.

[leighdear]

 

I know from reading an interview with Jenji that she's at least a little bit uncomfortable with the Netflix/bingeing situation.  I think she said there was some regret that she spends a year of her life working on something and rather than have people talking about it and anticipating the next chapter over the course of months they will do what I just did, gobble it down over the course of a couple days (in my case, stealing time from work ;)) and they're still left wanting more.

Isn't that what novelists have always had to deal with?  I'd say most novels take longer that what a 13 week series takes to film and edit.  It's the price she pays for having her "art" out there.  Unless she runs out of ideas, she doesn't have anything to worry about.  

 

I watched both seasons this weekend, beginning Friday afternoon. And just like books and movies I enjoy, I will re-visit them again.  Lord know I watch at least 4-6 episodes of "The Big Bang Theory" on rerun every week....*LOL*

[natyxg]

I do feel like the Vee storyline lacked closure. We never got real motivation for what turned her into a god awful human being, or really for what even sent her back to prison this time (or the previous time).

 

I didn't mind that we never got to see the reasons for her being a bad person, I just wish there was more to her than just being a bad person. I like villains and grey characters, but in order for me to like them there has to be some humanity in them, something else to make them interesting. Maybe she could've honestly loved Tastee as a daughter, for example, and have that shown. She was just so one note to me.

[90PercentGravity]

Vee was a textbook psychopath. There really was nothing more to her. That's the problem with psychopaths as characters, there really isn't much to them once you scratch the surface. Psychopaths don't have motivations beyond wanting to exert power over others.

[peachmangosteen]

I hated the Vee story and I love John/Daya, so I guess I'm just an UO magnet!

 

I think I would be more into this show if it aired weekly. It's hard for me to truly invest in it because I can't talk about every aspect of every episode every week with people.

 

ETA: If I were to drop one character from the show it'd definitely be Larry. He is completely pointless. I truly don't understand why he is even still so prominent. That being said, I actually really liked the Larry/Polly subplot.

Edited June 9, 2014 by peachmangosteen