S03.E07: A Fractured Inheritance

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Eleanor makes a startling discovery that tests her resolve, Tahani looks to make amends and Janet does some bonding.

Original air date: 11/1/18

[Dots And Stripes]

That was an emotional one. Both story lines got to me. I totally understand why Eleanor was so upset that "Diana" had finally become the mother Eleanor always wanted when it was too late. I also really appreciated that Michael didn't just dismiss those feelings. It got to me.

[Mabinogia]

This show has the ability to make me laugh and make me cry. 

I am loving the Human's continued growth. 

Of course Eleanor was upset because her mom was finally being a mom. And of course she would wonder why mom never tried for her. That moment was heartbreaking for me and KBell played it beautifully. 

Tahani finally realizing that her parents were the real bad guys, not Kamilah was nice, and that hug was adorable. Jason seeing boobs was just sooooo Jason. 

Not the funniest ep but one of the more emotional ones for me. I approve. I love that the show can swing both ways. 

[Linny]

Oh, this was good, and a lot more poignant than I anticipated. Poor Eleanor's reluctance to accept that her mother had actually changed for fear that it reflected her own inadequacy was heartbreaking. But as soon as she realized that her mother was truly happy (and scared to lose that happiness), her perspective changed entirely, which is really quite magnanimous for Eleanor. She could have chosen to continue reopening old wounds, or chosen to be jealous of Donna's relationship with Patricia, but she didn't. I love that we got to see Eleanor's entire thought process ranging from her initial instincts (distrust, cynicism) to her newfound enlightenment (encouragement and faith).

FINALLY, Tahani realizes she and her sister aren't really enemies, but rather victims of their parents' fucked up head games. The fact that this realization came while staring at the boobs painting is just stupendous. Trust this show to give us a sweet moment while tempering it with exactly the right dab of juvenile humor. I'm also glad we saw that Kamilah gave Tahani credit for the art exhibit, providing solid proof that these sisters stand a real chance of restructuring their relationship.

"All my fears are mine again!" Line of the episode, based on delivery alone. 

Michael made a friend, y'all! He and Dave dorking out over architecture was adorable.

Things are heating up now that Eleanor knows about falling in love with Chidi! I'm so excited to find out what she does with this information. And in other romantic news, show, I'm going to need you to give me more Janet and Jason! The little taste we got was not enough. 

[Panopticon]

I wondered why none of the humans came with Eleanor to face her mother, and then came last scene: she needed to be alone with Michael to hear about her past with Chidi. 

I’m so glad that Simone was out of the picture before Eleanor had reason to think explicitly romantic thoughts about Chidi. No stereotypical love triangles for this show! 

[Ohiopirate02]

I didn't think that the writers could top the Macho Man Randy Savage Non-International airport from last week, but they came close with MGM Elementary School.  The motto "always bet on read" had me rolling.   

[festivus]

Bofa Deesenuts and I sit on the thing and shoot one out had me howling. Yes, I've accepted that I'm a 12 year old boy. However, that does not keep Kristen Bell from breaking my heart. 

[Chaos Theory]

I loved both storylines.  Tahani realizing that her sister had been just as much a victim as she was and that their parents were the real bad guys.  And Eleanor finding out that her mother was actually being the mother she had always wanted to someone else.  Both stories were heartbreaking and sweet.  

[ae2]

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[The Companion]

33 minutes ago, festivus said:

Bofa Deesenuts and I sit on the thing and shoot one out had me howling. Yes, I've accepted that I'm a 12 year old boy. However, that does not keep Kristen Bell from breaking my heart. 

His delivery is so great. Also: Let's just say we both lived in the same neighborhood. 

 

That was some good emotional payoff, especially because Tahani's jealousy needed to progress. Of the gang, she has avoided her issues the most, I think. 

I am not a big shipper, but I did enjoy Jason and Janet this episode.

[phalange]

I really felt for both Eleanor and Tahani in this episode. I don't like that Tahani apologized to Kamilah but Kamilah never apologized in return. Yeah, their parents are terrible people for pitting them against each other as kids, which they both acknowledged, but Kamilah treated Tahani pretty awful as an adult and I wish she had taken responsibility for that.

Same goes for Eleanor and her mother. That Eleanor's mother never apologized for neglecting her as a kid and faking her own death while Eleanor was the one apologizing for doubting her is just really messed up. It felt like gaslighting, to be honest. 

I did like SupportiveDad!Michael and that he told Eleanor about her relationship with Chidi, letting her know that she is capable of that kind of connection with other people. I hope Chidi finds out as well, because I really loved their connection in the first two seasons and I've been missing it while they're on Earth. I've also missed Jason and Janet's interactions, so I enjoyed the scene of them in the museum while Janet pointed out the price of the paintings. 

[bethy]

1 hour ago, Linny said:

"All my fears are mine again!" Line of the episode, based on delivery alone. 

Agreed. Poor Chidi.

[DrScottie]

1 hour ago, phalange said:

I don't like that Tahani apologized to Kamilah but Kamilah never apologized in return. Yeah, their parents are terrible people for pitting them against each other as kids, which they both acknowledged, but Kamilah treated Tahani pretty awful as an adult and I wish she had taken responsibility for that.

I think that Kamilah had bought into all the BS about her and that everything and everyone else is beneath her as her name literally means perfect. At least subconsciously though, she still cared for her sister and that manifested itself in her art work. 

1 hour ago, phalange said:

Same goes for Eleanor and her mother. That Eleanor's mother never apologized for neglecting her as a kid and faking her own death while Eleanor was the one apologizing for doubting her is just really messed up. It felt like gaslighting, to be honest. 

It is interesting to me that both Eleanor and her mother both "died" and reformed themselves due to the presence of meaningful people in their lives. Eleanor believed that her mother was incapable of changing despite the fact that Eleanor herself is proof that it can be done. Donna's real apology to Eleanor would be not bailing on Dave and Patricia and not giving up on them like she gave up on Eleanor. That's more than any words could say. 

Remember the Soul Squad is just giving their family / friends the same type of push in the right direction that they got from Michael and Janet. Actions are more powerful than words. Burying the hatchet (In Tahani's case, literally) was the theme tonight. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by DrScottie

[VCRTracking]

I'm glad Tahani had her "Jeannie Beuller" epiphany.

[Winston Wolfe]

After a "meh" episode last week, this show is back to its usual excellent groove.  Although it had been well-established that Ellie and Tahani were pretty much screwed-up by their families, it was enlightening, as a viewer, to see more of the backstory and actual mechanics.  Lots of interesting subtext in the writing this week. Eleanor, on her quest to become a better person, simply refuses to believe her mother could do the same.  Her mom, perpetrating a grand scam, accidentally becomes a better person because of it, and needs Eleanor to point that out.

1 hour ago, phalange said:

I don't like that Tahani apologized to Kamilah but Kamilah never apologized in return. Yeah, their parents are terrible people for pitting them against each other as kids, which they both acknowledged, but Kamilah treated Tahani pretty awful as an adult and I wish she had taken responsibility for that.

Agreed.  And the subtext there, I think, is that even with "divine" intervention, not everyone's destined for the Good Place.  Tahani went out of her way to make amends with Kamilah, but I didn't see any real reciprocity from Kamilah.

2 hours ago, Linny said:

"All my fears are mine again!" Line of the episode, based on delivery alone. 

Is it just me, or did Chidi seemed to be joyfully relieved when he said that?  Almost like he doesn't believe he can exist without his ever-present angst.

2 hours ago, Linny said:

Michael made a friend, y'all! He and Dave dorking out over architecture was adorable.

Damn, even in an episode where Ted Danson doesn't have much to do he hits it out of the park.  i did find it interesting that Michael seemed to instinctively know that Eleanor's mom had become a good person even before they actually met her.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[bros402]

That was a very good episode. The name of the elementary school was almost as good as the airport last week.

[Traveller519]

3 hours ago, ae2 said:

   o              o

 

        O  O

All shapes and sizes

...

And distances apart

Edited November 2, 2018 by Traveller519

[possibilities]

I wonder if we'll find out what made Chidi so neurotic.

[GaT]

Huh, it seems that I'm in the minority about this episode, but I didn't find it that interesting. In fact, I'm starting to not like this show anymore.

[Amarsir]

17 minutes ago, GaT said:

Huh, it seems that I'm in the minority about this episode, but I didn't find it that interesting. In fact, I'm starting to not like this show anymore.

I'm finding it hard to simply enjoy the show when I'm constantly thinking "Where is this going?" That's especially true for this episode, because the podcast indicated that s03e07 would be pivotal. So I kept trying to figure out why. (Which I now guess is because of Eleanor/Chidi.)

I don't think it's bad, because I still like all the characters and the plot and dialogue seems consistent for them. But I can't help but feel like overall we're being jerked around a bit.

BTW the lack of special effects - something they used to deliberately put in every show to show off the otherworldliness - sort of demonstrates how different the show is now from where it started. I liked the visual joke at the school but it's no herd of galloping giraffes.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Amarsir

[ethankoo]

This episode was just ok.  Both storylines involving Eleanor and Tahini were touching but overall it was kind of bland.  I guess I just have high hopes for this show considering how quirky and inventive it can be and this episode is just too "normal".   The only thing I liked (well, besides Jason's observation of the boobs) is that Michael gets to bond with another human, an architect, no less.  The joke with Eleanor's question whether Michael has a penis and then later Dave pointing out that Michael didn't design a bathroom were also great.  Other than that, I hope the show is going somewhere other than "the four of them just being good people" because frankly it's not that interesting. 

[Ailianna]

7 hours ago, phalange said:

I really felt for both Eleanor and Tahani in this episode. I don't like that Tahani apologized to Kamilah but Kamilah never apologized in return. Yeah, their parents are terrible people for pitting them against each other as kids, which they both acknowledged, but Kamilah treated Tahani pretty awful as an adult and I wish she had taken responsibility for that.

Same goes for Eleanor and her mother. That Eleanor's mother never apologized for neglecting her as a kid and faking her own death while Eleanor was the one apologizing for doubting her is just really messed up. It felt like gaslighting, to be honest.

I also think that Eleanor and Tahani are further along the path to being good people than Donna and Kamilah are, though.  So Eleanor and Tahani were able to see past their own issues, while their families were not.  

4 hours ago, Amarsir said:

I'm finding it hard to simply enjoy the show when I'm constantly thinking "Where is this going?" That's especially true for this episode, because the podcast indicated that s03e07 would be pivotal. So I kept trying to figure out why. (Which I now guess is because of Eleanor/Chidi.)

I don't think it's bad, because I still like all the characters and the plot and dialogue seems consistent for them. But I can't help but feel like overall we're being jerked around a bit.

I"m not sure you can blame the show for this though. That's more of a viewer issue.  I'm willing to go with the flow, and I really don't worry about where it's going, since I think it will be worthwhile when we get there, and I don't want to waste the joy of the journey. So I've enjoyed all the episodes this season.  It's all still a different look at the world and life, even here on earth versus the afterlife.

[DrSpaceman73]

Tahani's parents really are/were horrible people

Glad she and her sister finally realized what they had done. 

Eleanor's mom looks almost the same age as her.  I know part of that is how she dresses and acts and tries to make it seem like she is younger, but still was distracting to me. 

Pretty good episode.  Not my favorite but had its moments. 

The only thing about the Eleanor/mom storyline is I know I have seen that exact same plot used before about the changed mom and the daughter being upset she never changed for her, but I can't pinpoint in my brain was other show it was.  And I don't mean the kind of same idea, but almost exact same story

[strippedhalo]

39 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Eleanor's mom looks almost the same age as her.  I know part of that is how she dresses and acts and tries to make it seem like she is younger, but still was distracting to me. 

Partly that, partly that Leslie Grossman is only 9 years older than Kristen Bell. I was initially surprised that they didn't attempt to age Leslie up even a little, but I got over it pretty quickly.

[cleo]

So if he told Eleanor about Chidi, shouldn't he tell Jason that he married Janet in one if the reboots? I'm getting a little tired of Janet just lusting after him and he is clueless. 

 

Yes, if Eleanor's mom had really grown she would have realized how she hurt Eleanor and apologized. I wish the show had acknowledged this. They could have framed it as that is another step, and it's baby steps even, bc I could see it being too much all at once. My mother sucks and I have no relationship with her, so I'm a little biased though.

[Chaos Theory]

It took Eleanor and Tahani A long long time to get to where they are emotionally.  You can’t expect Eleanor’s mom and Kamilha to get there instantly.  Yet both took incredible strides.  Kamila didn’t press charges against Tahani,  was able to mend some fences with her and even gave her credit for a peice of art.  That is progress.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[srpturtle80]

I loved how excited Eleanor and Michael were about the margaritas. Made me LOL. 

[Sakura12]

This season does feel different then the past 2. The Earth setting takes away some of the whimsy. I'm still enjoying it though. 

I do feel for Eleanor and Tahani their parents were awful to them and really messed them up. Then for Eleanor to see her mom be the mom she wanted to someone else is heartbreaking. I'm glad they both were the better people they became and forgave. 

Team Soul squad had 300 years to get to where they are now. Donna and Kamilha have attempted to be better or make amends. That's a start. 

I loved Jason talking so strongly about the meaning of the boob art and even Chidi could only see that afterwards. Then Chidi becoming as enamored with Kamilha as everyone else. I'm curious how Jason would've reacted to her being he only understands maybe 30% of what people say. 

Also seeing Michael and Eleanor enjoying what'shisface's margaritas.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Sakura12

[CherithCutestory]

I enjoyed the Kamilah plot. I always hoped that she wouldn't be shown as just an awful person although those hopes were dashed the previous episodes she was in. Because I always thought she was as much a victim of her parents as Tahani. She was treated better but only as long as she always proved her worth to them. Neither of these girls ever felt anything like unconditional love.  And it ultimately is not her fault her parents were awful or that she excelled at the things that mattered to them more than Tahani did. So, Kamilah taking steps meant a lot.

I know that on this show pretty much everyone is redeemable. But I didn't like Eleanor's mother stuff at all. (Although I love Leslie Grossman and her previous appearances on this show.) The idea that Eleanor's mother might get to the Good Place but Eleanor couldn't is sickening. Nothing they showed warranted the redemption of a woman who essentially abandoned her child, killed her dog, allowed her to move out at 14 without a moment hesitation, and faked her death. I'm not saying such a person can't be redeemed. But her abandoning her life, letting her daughter think she was dead, and taking up in a very comfortable middle class lifestyle isn't it. Like, wow, she won't abandon the guy who pays for her nice lifestyle and his daughter. If she were helping a single dad raise a child and he were poor and she was having to work to support them I'd buy it. But if this family hits hard times she's out.

And I get it's just the early steps. But nothing about this was earned from the horrible person she was. Well beyond anything Eleanor ever did.

12 hours ago, phalange said:

Kamilah treated Tahani pretty awful as an adult and I wish she had taken responsibility for that.

From what we've seen Tahani was never particularly kind or loving toward Kamilah as an adult either. It was never one way. Both contributed to their cold relationship. And Tahani had a huge centuries long journey to get to this point. It was completely sprung on Kamilah out of the blue.

I hated that Michael told Eleanor about Chidi. It's just yet another rehash from season 2 when Mindy told her.

I miss having the group together more.

Quote

Partly that, partly that Leslie Grossman is only 9 years older than Kristen Bell. I was initially surprised that they didn't attempt to age Leslie up even a little, but I got over it pretty quickly.

Well when she was first brought on it was for flashbacks when Eleanor was younger albeit we don't know how much younger when her father died. But mostly for when she was quite young.

And I think Eleanor is younger than Kristen.

Edited November 2, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The only thing about the Eleanor/mom storyline is I know I have seen that exact same plot used before about the changed mom and the daughter being upset she never changed for her, but I can't pinpoint in my brain was other show it was. 

I know what you mean, and I can't remember which show it was either. I've seen the whole dynamic so many times on sitcoms that I was mentally counting down until the moment when Eleanor said something like, "Where was this woman when I was growing up?!?!"

I also thought it was extremely predictable that once Eleanor finally accepted that her mother had changed, she would immediately discover proof that her mother was hiding something. The one thing that seemed fresh about that storyline was that even though the mother was stealing and hoarding, they still presented her as being genuine.

Admittedly, my problem may just be that I've seen too many sitcoms.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Blakeston

[Enginerd]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The only thing about the Eleanor/mom storyline is I know I have seen that exact same plot used before about the changed mom and the daughter being upset she never changed for her, but I can't pinpoint in my brain was other show it was.  And I don't mean the kind of same idea, but almost exact same story

On Hart of Dixie, Lemon's mother who abandoned them years earlier turned out to be living happily in a nearby town with a new husband and daughter she treated much better. I feel like I've seen it somewhere else, too, but can't remember where. 

[BoogieBurns]

My sister and I are much closer than Tahani and Kamilah, but we were (are) pitted against each other to impress our parents. My sister is the one who is doing things "right" according to those two parents of mine, and I am their challenging child. I have always identified with that portion of Tahani. I cried when she hugged Kamilah. Somehow it was like she was hugging me, I don't know. But it made me feel something and for that, this episode was a winner for me. 

I'm enjoying this season, by episode 7 of season one, people were "checking out" of the series too. I trust the writers. They said this season is all about making the stakes small, after the other two seasons were always staked on Eternal Damnation. I am ready for them to all hang out together, but I do not know what their next stop is, did they mention it?

I made some cookies for Halloween and caught myself singing the recipe steps to the tune of "put the peep in the chili pot and mix it all up," lol. I'm 50% Chidi, 50% Tahani. 

[Rockstar99435]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The only thing about the Eleanor/mom storyline is I know I have seen that exact same plot used before about the changed mom and the daughter being upset she never changed for her, but I can't pinpoint in my brain was other show it was.  And I don't mean the kind of same idea, but almost exact same story

On How I Met Your Mother, Barney found out that his deadbeat dad was now a great suburban dad to his next kids and had the "Why couldn't he be that guy for me" freakout.

I loved everything. The sisters moving forward with their relationship was great. I also liked that Tahani still wanted to text her sister about the better name for their art exhibit and had to be talked down by Chidi. The Soul Squad is better than they were, but they're still not perfect. I loved that Michael's building design didn't have bathrooms and the line about Janet getting pulled over by a cop just so he could tell her that she is a perfect driver.

[EdnasEdibles]

3 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

My sister and I are much closer than Tahani and Kamilah, but we were (are) pitted against each other to impress our parents. My sister is the one who is doing things "right" according to those two parents of mine, and I am their challenging child. I have always identified with that portion of Tahani. I cried when she hugged Kamilah. Somehow it was like she was hugging me, I don't know. But it made me feel something and for that, this episode was a winner for me. 

I'm enjoying this season, by episode 7 of season one, people were "checking out" of the series too. I trust the writers. They said this season is all about making the stakes small, after the other two seasons were always staked on Eternal Damnation. I am ready for them to all hang out together, but I do not know what their next stop is, did they mention it?

I made some cookies for Halloween and caught myself singing the recipe steps to the tune of "put the peep in the chili pot and mix it all up," lol. I'm 50% Chidi, 50% Tahani. 

It is very interesting to see something of your own life and issues in these characters. When Eleanor was upset because her mom was willing to change for this other little girl but wasn't ever willing to change for her, it made me cry. I have not felt that way about parents but it's how I feel about my ex. I saw so much of myself in her face in that moment and all of that hurt and I was really relieved that they didn't have her deal with that in a pat simple way. She's still feeling kind of unworthy and hurt at the end of the episode. 

[DrSpaceman73]

12 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

On How I Met Your Mother, Barney found out that his deadbeat dad was now a great suburban dad to his next kids and had the "Why couldn't he be that guy for me" freakout.

I loved everything. The sisters moving forward with their relationship was great. I also liked that Tahani still wanted to text her sister about the better name for their art exhibit and had to be talked down by Chidi. The Soul Squad is better than they were, but they're still not perfect. I loved that Michael's building design didn't have bathrooms and the line about Janet getting pulled over by a cop just so he could tell her that she is a perfect driver.

I vaguely recall that on How I Met Your mother, but its Shameless I am thinking of, though I guess its not THAT recent.  I just binge watched the whole thing and it was several seasons back. 

Fiona finds out her mom has a new family, same story, wonders why her mom couldn't be like that for her when she was younger.  Though its more sad for Fiona because she was left with a bunch of kids to raise on her own, unlike Eleanor.  Same logic though.  Why did the mom change for the news kids and not for her?   

Edited November 2, 2018 by DrSpaceman73

[ae2]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I loved Jason talking so strongly about the meaning of the boob art and even Chidi could only see that afterwards. Then Chidi becoming as enamored with Kamilha as everyone else. I'm curious how Jason would've reacted to her being he only understands maybe 30% of what people say. 

I wish we'd seen that. I think Jason would have been immune to Kamilah and that would have endeared Tahani to him all that much more.

It was nice to see him and Janet bonding though. Much better than her pining after him from a distance.

Tahani's story was the perfect resolution to how they have built up the relationship with her sister over the years. I loved it.

Eleanor's resolution, however, took a steep turn that I hated. Aside from it being well-traveled story, I have never felt before that Eleanor wished her mother had been there for her and had raised her like a normal family. Sure, she hates her mom, and rightly thinks she's Arizona trash, and hates that she was abandoned, but I think she would have hated a mom who was basic even more.

This might have been acceptable (if still clichéd) if she had seen her mom with her new family living a basic life, and then realized that is something she missed out on. But the episode didn't play it as if this was something Eleanor suddenly realized, but something she had wanted all along. Which conflicts pretty strongly with the Eleanor we know.

[Dots And Stripes]

2 hours ago, cleo said:

Yes, if Eleanor's mom had really grown she would have realized how she hurt Eleanor and apologized. I wish the show had acknowledged this. They could have framed it as that is another step, and it's baby steps even, bc I could see it being too much all at once. My mother sucks and I have no relationship with her, so I'm a little biased though.

This seems to be a theme: the soul squad is growing more than the people they are trying to save. I hope they are doing something more complex than just doing a reveal that Michael lied when he said they couldn’t get into the Good Place and they have now gained a lot more points while thinking they are doomed.

[Sakura12]

I don't mind that we didn't see Donna or Kamilha apologize since this is to see how much our characters have grown and have a lot more self awareness then they did before, even Jason knew he didn't want to be like his father.  Eleanor deciding to be happy for her mother even though she was still hurting and Tahani realizing her parents were the real awful ones not sister. They were the reason she missed out on having a sister. 

I do think they are earning good place points and that there is still a twist to come. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Sakura12

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Michael never answered, does he have a penis?

[ae2]

3 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Michael never answered, does he have a penis?

We know that demons are given human suits, as opposed to inhabiting humans or somehow visually masking their appearance. Considering the human suits are otherwise visually impeccable, I would assume he does, yes.

However, his bathroom conversation makes it sound as if the suits are not fully functional.

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

It took Eleanor and Tahani A long long time to get to where they are emotionally.  You can’t expect Eleanor’s mom and Kamilha to get there instantly.  Yet both took incredible strides.  Kamila didn’t press charges against Tahani,  was able to mend some fences with her and even gave her credit for a peice of art.  That is progress.

This. And, Eleanor's mom is going to stay with her new family and put money into a college fund for her step-daughter. Or buy her a car. Eleanor really doesn't know anything about kids.

While I loved Chidi's "All my fears are mine again" line, my favorite was Eleanor's helping "Diana" cover by saying that they were in the same sorority - "Kappa Zeta ... Jones." Sahdes of "Chidi Anna ... Kendrick."

I enjoyed this episode more on rewatch. And noticed that both Tahani and Eleanor were wielding some serious weaponry, an axe and a large kitchen knife respectively. Maybe another example of how it's these two who are really soulmates. Which would also free up relationships for Janet and Jason, and Chidi gettiing back together w/ Simone. If you're into shipping.

[tennisgurl]

Less hilarious than previous episodes, but very heartwarming, and gave Eleanor and Tahani some real emotional closure. Or at least, they made some real progress. I felt like all of this was set up well with them, especially Eleanor and her bittersweet realization that her mom could have been a good mother, but never was. Despite Eleanor's hatred of "normal" stuff, I think that she always wanted to have that sweet, wholesome normal family life, going back to the toothbrush family she got emotionally invested in last season. 

I wish we could have had Eleanor's mom and Kamilha apologized for their bad behavior, but they haven't gotten to that point yet, and its taken the gang three seasons of bettering themselves hijinks to be able to find the self awareness to be able to forgive their families and move forward. This whole thing is about getting their families on the right path to The Good Place, not making sure they make every right right choice and holding their hands to make sure they get there. 

The biggest laughs for me were probably Jason very seriously discussion how Kamilhas art looked like boobs (and Chidi being unable to unsee it) and Michael bonding with a fellow architect. That was great, Michael was just so happy! "Lets say we lived...in the same...neighborhood..." What an unusual way to say a normal thing!"

[CherithCutestory]

1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

This seems to be a theme: the soul squad is growing more than the people they are trying to save. I hope they are doing something more complex than just doing a reveal that Michael lied when he said they couldn’t get into the Good Place and they have now gained a lot more points while thinking they are doomed.

I think promoting the idea that forgiving abusive parents is crucial to development is unhealthy. So, you get good person points for forgiving abusers who have done nothing to make it up to you? That's rhetoric used a lot to down play abuse and make it the burden of the victim to make the abuser feel better rather than the abuser feel any consequences.

Yes, Tahani should forgive her sister and it doesn't matter if her sister forgives her. Because, ultimately, they were both tormented by their parents and Kamilah was responding to that dynamic as much as Tahani was. So, I think that worked quite well. At the end of the day, Tahani's feelings of inadequacy weren't because of Kamilah. She wasn't the one who truly wronged her in the deepest sense.

But to think that Eleanor is a better person for forgiving a cruel and neglectful mother is just perpetuating BS that victims of abuse must always forgive for their own good. And Eleanor's mother's neglect definitely amounted to abuse. This girl was on her own at 14, she was told she couldn't cry over her dead dog, which her mother is responsible for being dead. 

What if it was an abusive spouse?

I don't think the crimes of Eleanor's mother were remotely comparable to those of Tahani's sister. So, I didn't think it worked that they were essentially equated and dealt with in a similar way.

Also, Michael is a terrible liar now  so I doubt he lied. Plus, we saw him after the reveal with just Janet and he clearly believed he had failed and condemned them to the Bad Place. He had no reason to lie to Janet. He just doesn't now everything about the rules.

Edited November 2, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

I loved how excited Eleanor and Michael were about the margaritas. Made me LOL. 

I loved Michael sticking his finger into the glass to get the last drop.  Makes me want to try the margaritas.

[ashleylm]

55 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"Lets say we lived...in the same...neighborhood..." "Well, that does sound like a normal thing"

I think it was closer to "What an interesting way to say a normal thing," which (after "All my fears are mine again") was my 2nd line of the night.

[Dots And Stripes]

39 minutes ago, CherithCutestory said:

I think promoting the idea that forgiving abusive parents is crucial to development is unhealthy. So, you get good person points for forgiving abusers who have done nothing to make it up to you? That's rhetoric used a lot to down play abuse and make it the burden of the victim to make the abuser feel better rather than the abuser feel any consequences.

Yes, Tahani should forgive her sister and it doesn't matter if her sister forgives her. Because, ultimately, they were both tormented by their parents and Kamilah was responding to that dynamic as much as Tahani was. So, I think that worked quite well. At the end of the day, Tahani's feelings of inadequacy weren't because of Kamilah. She wasn't the one who truly wronged her in the deepest sense.

But to think that Eleanor is a better person for forgiving a cruel and neglectful mother is just perpetuating BS that victims of abuse must always forgive for their own good. And Eleanor's mother's neglect definitely amounted to abuse. This girl was on her own at 14, she was told she couldn't cry over her dead dog, which her mother is responsible for being dead. 

What if it was an abusive spouse?

Also, Michael is a terrible liar now  so I doubt he lied. Plus, we saw him after the reveal with just Janet and he clearly believed he had failed and condemned them to the Bad Place. He had no reason to lie to Janet. He just doesn't now everything about the rules.

I did’t feel that Eleanor was forced to forgive her mother. I was worried that Michael was going to give some righteous speech after Eleanor realized why she was so upset with her mother, but he didn’t. He validated her feelings. It is awful that her mother couldn’t be the parent Eleanor needed. I’ll admit that  I was so overwhelmed by that step that I didn’t quite absorb how she came around. I definitely didn’t get the sense that Elneaor was compelled to forgive and forget every bad thing her mother had done. She still expressed some of that residual anger in the car when she said she couldn’t tell anyone she loved them. My takeaway from the episode was more that sometimes it’s ok to feel bad.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 hour ago, ae2 said:

We know that demons are given human suits, as opposed to inhabiting humans or somehow visually masking their appearance. Considering the human suits are otherwise visually impeccable, I would assume he does, yes.

I was waiting for him to say something funny about it but he never answered! I was thinking of Janet's ex-boyfriend turned Mindy's boyfriend who had wind chimes instead. But I suppose Janet made him, so maybe a different story than Michael.

1 hour ago, ae2 said:

However, his bathroom conversation makes it sound as if the suits are not fully functional.

Or they just have different needs than humans. He might be able to "shoot one out" if he ate something, for example. 

[tennisgurl]

4 minutes ago, ashleylm said:

I think it was closer to "What an interesting way to say a normal thing," which (after "All my fears are mine again") was my 2nd line of the night.

Thanks! I couldn't quite remember the whole back and fourth, but that was hilarious. As was the cop pulling Janet over to tell her that her driving was perfect! 

As for the message of whether or not to forgive an abusive parent, I think the show has basically said that you dont have to forgive everyone in your life who wronged you, even if they were your family. Last week, Jason realized that his dad was a lost cause (even if he did do one nice thing for him) and instead decided to help Pillboy, and last season, Tahani talked to a vision of her parents and told them that she didnt care about them anymore, and that they sucked, and she didnt need their approval. So, maybe the show is saying that sometimes it can be good to forgive people, but it can also be good to cut your loses and sometimes your parents are just crappy, and your better off just forgetting about them. Especially when they're just such wankers. It just depends on the circumstances. I mean, I've never liked when TV tells you that you need to forgive your family all the time because "they're family" no matter how awful they are, I think thats a messed up message. But, if forgiving your parents or relatives does make you feel better, especially if, like Eleanor, your basically just closing the book on that whole chapter of your life, thats not a bad thing. And it was clear that she is still angry at her mom for messing her life up, just that she feels a bit better now knowing that she did a good thing for her, which I think is one of the greater points the show is making about being good. 

[sadiegirl]

Michael did mention his testicles once so I'm going to assume he has a penis - just to keep the testicles company. 

[iMonrey]

I get a kick out of the running gag that everything Kamilah does turns to gold. Tahani throws an egg against the wall and some rando wanders by and marvels at Kamilah's artistic brilliance. 

The thing is, it really isn't just about their parents and the way they were treated. The way this show depicts Kamilah is as some kind of demi-God who is worshipped by all wherever she goes. It's really kind of absurd and I don't know how you can really blame her parents for that.