S01.E01: Keep on Truckin'

[Pete Martell]

6 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

This reminds me so much of women of an earlier generation who literally would rather die then go see a doctor about a lump in their breast or pain in their "woman's place".  It's just so sad but totally believable to me that while women may feel more open to getting help now in some areas both men and women will still keep secrets around their health issues even if it means putting their lives at risk.

That's why the reactions saying her death was a disgrace, that she should have died a 'hero,' that this was done to spite Barr, etc. are so revealing. There's nothing shameful about the way Roseanne Connor died - it happens over and over again. It should be acknowledged and discussed. Treating it as shameful just means it will keep happening. 

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

And in death, for all the talk of how this is some kind of insult or slap in the face to have her die while hiding her dependence on pain pills, I think it reconnects the character to what she used to be. On the old show, especially in the earlier to middle seasons, Roseanne kept so much of her pain to herself, because she felt like she had no real choice. She had to keep the family going. That she died for this reason, pride and fear and responsibility, and keeping secrets that she couldn't trust anyone else with, is a fitting sendoff, and an honest one. 

Yes: that's why the scene between Dan and Marcy was pivotal, and that's why Marcy reminded me of Roseanne. The writers' understanding that within many communities, there is an underground of women looking after each other (criticizing each other, competing with each other, covering for one another). I say "women" but I mean "mothers." The network stretches out beneath the surface of their families' lives. 

The pill-swapping is another way of helping out: a covert act of resistance or now, survival, against a relevant bureaucracy. Which over their adult lives has ranged from officialdom in their kids' world -- school administrations, sports league organizers -- to supervisors or upper management on the job, to insurers and federal assistance programs. All Roseanne had to tell Marcy was, "My knee's killing me. I need the surgery. But right now it hurts so much I can't back the car out of the driveway to go Uber and help cover the deductible."

There are still things kept private. Maybe most things, or the things that matter most. Addiction tops the list, along with other domestic abuses suffered, witnessed, or self-inflicted. Just as Dan didn't think about the underground beneath the neighborhood, the underground didn't ask about the shame within the home. All Roseanne had to not tell Marcy was, "These pills are killing me. I need to be off them yesterday. But I can't trust myself, and I don't trust anyone or anything to help."  And, "As soon as you say yes, I'm going to call someone else." And, "Dan can't know."

[jsbt]

Since her stuff last year came up I'll say Roseanne's best moments last season were quieter, IMO. She was very, very rusty and stiff a lot of the time, but she was always good at doing the dry humor or the understated thing when she wanted to, usually when Dan would become emotional. Her sort of humbly processing the Al-Harazis' struggle without saying a word (and then unloading on the cashier after Fatima left) was classic Roseanne, as was her just letting Dan have his anguish over the Chuck/hiring situation in the finale. She was very good in the pills episode, and she channeled her old bond with little Michael Fishman with Ames McNamara.

But her last classic moment was easily stealing the fruit from the hotel. "This is not who I am. This is who you've made me!" It's sad we lost all that, but it is what it is.

Edited October 19, 2018 by jsbt

[buffy11bnl]

1 hour ago, BlossomCulp said:

This reminds me so much of women of an earlier generation who literally would rather die then go see a doctor about a lump in their breast or pain in their "woman's place".  It's just so sad but totally believable to me that while women may feel more open to getting help now in some areas both men and women will still keep secrets around their health issues even if it means putting their lives at risk.

 

 

Your post is spot on, and your user name is A+++ 

It’s always such a nice suprise to  find other people have read the other (slightly) obscure books you have!

[BlossomCulp]

4 minutes ago, buffy11bnl said:

It’s always such a nice suprise to  find other people have read the other (slightly) obscure books you have!

You're the first person to comment on my user name since I started posting here!  Definitely one of my favourite kidlit characters :).

[mythoughtis]

16 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

I called mine Gramma (paternal last name) and Gramma (maternal last name). Worked for me!

When talking to them, it was just Grandma and Grandpa.  When talking about them, we added the last name to differentiate.  If I had used their first name, there would have been $&@“ to pay.  That was considered disrespectful. 

[AgentRXS]

8 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

The show isn't the same without her, but it feels like so much of Roseanne Connor died a long time ago anyway.

This.  Even though  Roseanne Barr was an awful actress in Season 1, we all gave her a pass because she felt like one of us. Yeah, she laughed after her lines, but most of the time,we were laughing right along with her. Roseanne Barr's portrayal of Roseanne Conner was awesome right up until about Season 6. Season 7 and beyond, Roseanne Barr allowed her bitterness and ego get in the way of her portrayal of Roseanne Conner and Roseanne Conner became sarcastic and mean instead of sarcastic and witty.

I could easily see the later seasons Roseanne Conner evolving into reboot Roseanne Conner, minus the politics. It bugged me that my favorite show ever (and by extension this show) got accused of pandering to a certain political fanbase. The show was never about politics--Barr is the one that brought that back with her, and it overshadowed the whole reboot. I am glad to be free of that, mostly. The fact that some view this show being brought back as a win for the blues, and an attack on the reds is ridiculous.  This is simply about Roseanne Barr doing something offensive for attention (like she's done since forever) and having it backfire against her this time.

9 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

I did think the writing was very clumsy (and I'm not sure how it's going to come across if the only religious person in the family is a black woman - are there any black female writers on the staff since Wanda Sykes left?), but I took the scene as probably being part of a long-running back-and-forth that both women are used to or enjoy. There was a certain playful tone under the barbs. 

I have to admit I had a few of the same reservations though. 

I have to admit, I did raise my eyebrow that when I saw the one religious character was a black woman. However, I could see both her and DJ becoming more religious since their enlistment, so I let it slide. This show did an excellent job avoiding stereotypes with Chuck and Anne-Marie, so I hope the new writers continue in the same vein with Geena.

Edited October 19, 2018 by AgentRXS

[willowk]

24 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

This.  Even though  Roseanne Barr was an awful actress in Season 1, we all gave her a pass because she felt like one of us. Yeah, she laughed after her lines, but most of the time,we were laughing right along with her. Roseanne Barr's portrayal of Roseanne Conner was awesome right up until about Season 6. Season 7 and beyond, Roseanne Barr allowed her bitterness and ego get in the way of her portrayal of Roseanne Conner and Roseanne Conne became sarcastic and mean instead of sarcastic and witty.

I could easily see the later seasons Roseanne Conner evolving into reboot Roseanne Conner, minus the politics. It bugged me that my favorite show ever (and by extension this show) gets accused of pandering to a certain political fanbase. The show was never about politics--Barr is the one that brought that back with her, and it overshadowed the whole reboot. I am glad to be free of that, mostly. The fact that some view the show being brought back as a win for the blues, and an attack on the reds is ridiculous.  This is simply about Roseanne Barr doing something offensive for attention (like she's done since forever) and having it backfire against her this time.

I have to admit, I did raise my eyebrow that when I saw the one religious character was a black woman. However, I could see both her and DJ becoming more religious since their enlistment, so I let it slide. This show did an excellent job avoiding stereotypes with Chuck and Anne-Marie, so I hope the new writers continue in the same vein with Geena.

This. I feel bad for Barr in a way, as I think she self-sabotaged, couldn't handle the renewed success. But on the other hand, I get that ABC/Disney couldn't keep her given her inability to be professional on a consistent basis.  On the grandma thing, we did the Grandma lastname thing too, although only when referring to them when they were not present. I always just called each one Grandma or Grandpa in person. I don't remember there being any confusion when we were all together. On the Granny Rose I think some writer picked it out as they thought to sounded better than Granny Rosie, Granny Roseanne, or Grandma Rosie. I have an Aunt Rose, and we've always called her Aunt Rosie. Rose is too formal. But its what they chose (or Barr chose) so we have to roll with it.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 10/18/2018 at 3:42 AM, Lili said:

Having her divorce from Dan, and move out could have been an alternative, like I said. And a better one at that. Then she would have had a better chance to return, in case ABC let her back on.

Sorry, no actor that publicly denigrates an accomplished African American by calling them an Ape gets to keep their job.  I only watch two or three shows on ABC, but if they go crazy and bring Rosie back, I'm done for good.  Seriously.

[BlossomCulp]

7 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Sorry, no actor that publicly denigrates an accomplished African American by calling them an Ape gets to keep their job.  I only watch two or three shows on ABC, but if they go crazy and bring Rosie back, I'm done for good.  Seriously.

Absolutely agree.  And aside from all else I am getting really tired of people behaving badly and their defenders thinking that their 5 minutes in the corner should be more than enough punishment and we should all move on.  No.   If Barr can clean up her mouth and the cesspool that seems to be passing for her brain and actually make some positive changes that's great and in the long term maybe she can get herself another acting gig somewhere but I for one am glad they didn't write this episode in anyway that leaves a door open for her to come back.  To use an old fashioned expression she blotted her copybook and that's it.  Game over.

[Winston Wolfe]

2 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

 If Barr can clean up her mouth and the cesspool that seems to be passing for her brain and actually make some positive changes that's great and in the long term maybe she can get herself another acting gig somewhere but I for one am glad they didn't write this episode in anyway that leaves a door open for her to come back. 

Also, given that Barr is clearly mentally ill, The Conners really should in the future tackle that topic as well, maybe that will serve as a Dog Whistle for Roseanne.

[Ottis]

18 hours ago, willowk said:

I agree that the Mark character is a bit much, would have preferred if they had made his gender presentation and sexual orientation a bit more ambiguous and had the storyline develop over time. No way would the quick acceptance by family and the community have happened IRL. And realistically, the kid would have struggled with it. And the rest of the characters are so grittily realistic that Mark seems more like an alien than a Conner. 

What was really odd was, if I remember correctly, in the Roseanne episodes earlier this year, the family viewed Mark as a question mark. While he clearly was different than some boys his age, they didn't know if that meant he was gay, or in a phase, or what. And they all tacitly agreed to give Mark room until Mark decided to share more.

Then in The Connors, Mark is treated as matter-of-factly gay, and while Dan still is struggling with his own issues, everyone, including Dan, is supporting of Mark and his seatmate crushes. They skipped over a lot.

9 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

I went back and watched some old episodes today, which I haven't done in a very long time, and it reminded me of how much the character meant to me, even with Barr never being the most natural actress. I just felt a real connection with her, which is one of the reasons why I checked out of the old show as she and what surrounded her became more and more sour and scattered...and also one of reasons that the way she was written for the revival felt like such a betrayal.

What I remember most about the original Roseanne episodes was that they arrived after The Cosby Show had been a hit - and seemed so much more realistic than Cosby. I watched both, for a while, anyway. Cosby was never wrong, and the kids turned to perfect parents for answers, and I suppose that appealed to some. In my house, where my mom had divorced twice by then, Roseanne was much more of what we were used to (though not as Midwesterm hick). I liked Roseanne for that.

1 hour ago, AgentRXS said:

I have to admit, I did raise my eyebrow that when I saw the one religious character was a black woman.

I'm really becoming interested in the reaction to this character and her religion. When I watched the show, I thought she came across as capable and nonsensical and also religious. But nothing struck me as wrong, not even for hell comment (which I thought was played off as in-family humor).  But others seem bothered by it. 

Also, she is the only religious character as far as we know. Others could be religious, and we haven't seen that, yet (or met them on The Connors).

[TheLastKidPicked]

5 hours ago, Pallas said:

That's why the scene between Dan and Marcy was pivotal, and that's why Marcy reminded me of Roseanne.

You used exactly the word I was looking for-- pivotal.   The porch scene pivoted the storyline toward exploring  how many people may be in exactly the same position Roseanne was.

4 hours ago, jsbt said:

But her last classic moment was easily stealing the fruit from the hotel. "This is not who I am. This is who you've made me!" It's sad we lost all that, but it is what it is.

This reminds me of the observation that many comedians are desperately unhappy people.  The line above is the classic line that is funny on the surface, but a little dark if you put it in that context.

Edited October 19, 2018 by TheLastKidPicked

[jsbt]

Speaking as a gay dude I don't think Mark has fully processed his orientation - he's like nine or ten. Some kids certainly do at that age, many don't. According to the episode though, everything seems sublimated around the idea of his 'seatmates.' Sure, Dan discusses it in terms of how he'd wondered when Mark would be 'ready to talk about it,' but how Mark perceives it still seems to have a kind of cognitive distancing to me. He has not come out and said he likes boys the way other boys like girls, but the point is understood by Dan as a step along the continuum. So I don't think that's so far a leap from where he was last season. There was a question mark, and now it's coming more into focus bit by bit. Nobody has to say 'Mark's gay now' but I think it's quiet, and organic. But YMMV.

[Colorado David]

eh doesn't matter. people love to focus on gay, straight. don't care, make the show funny. and gay doesn't equal funny, hi will and grace.

[Ottis]

35 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Speaking as a gay dude I don't think Mark has fully processed his orientation - he's like nine or ten. Some kids certainly do at that age, many don't. According to the episode though, everything seems sublimated around the idea of his 'seatmates.' Sure, Dan discusses it in terms of how he'd wondered when Mark would be 'ready to talk about it,' but how Mark perceives it still seems to have a kind of cognitive distancing to me. He has not come out and said he likes boys the way other boys like girls, but the point is understood by Dan as a step along the continuum. So I don't think that's so far a leap from where he was last season. There was a question mark, and now it's coming more into focus bit by bit. Nobody has to say 'Mark's gay now' but I think it's quiet, and organic. But YMMV.

Absolutely agree with you on Mark and where he is at. I was commenting more on how the show presents Mark, and how other characters around Mark, perceive Mark. The piece that was missing was any sort of dialogue around how Mark might interact with his chosen seatmate. Because as others, and I, have noted, other boys might not understand. The family instead went right to supporting Mark, and Dan went to making a pro/con list. That felt a lot like the show was telling us to accept that Mark is gay, nothing to see here, let's move on. That seemed rushed from earlier this year, IMO.  I hope they spend more time on it, and not in a cliched way.

[jsbt]

I don't disagree on that hope. But I will say I think the boys already accept Mark as Mark and seem to be his friends, so I don't think the family would have to counsel him just yet. I think that is pending Mark's own self-actualization. I don't think it's anywhere near done.

[Colorado David]

let's not make the show Mark centric. boring.

[Annber03]

12 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

And in death, for all the talk of how this is some kind of insult or slap in the face to have her die while hiding her dependence on pain pills, I think it reconnects the character to what she used to be. On the old show, especially in the earlier to middle seasons, Roseanne kept so much of her pain to herself, because she felt like she had no real choice. She had to keep the family going. That she died for this reason, pride and fear and responsibility, and keeping secrets that she couldn't trust anyone else with, is a fitting sendoff, and an honest one. 

This is an excellent, and heartbreaking, point. 

[Colorado David]

Agree. Dying in a way not glamorous  is perfect, and I think RB would approve.

[msrachelj]

8 hours ago, BlossomCulp said:

This reminds me so much of women of an earlier generation who literally would rather die then go see a doctor about a lump in their breast or pain in their "woman's place".  It's just so sad but totally believable to me that while women may feel more open to getting help now in some areas both men and women will still keep secrets around their health issues even if it means putting their lives at risk.

i believe that is what happened with my mother. of course i will never know the truth because in the old days, you did not speak about (whisper) cancer or talk to the children.

[BlossomCulp]

5 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i believe that is what happened with my mother. of course i will never know the truth because in the old days, you did not speak about (whisper) cancer or talk to the children.

I recently learned that my grandmother who died before I was born died of breast cancer.  Even her own son (my dad) was told it was stomach cancer.  The only reason I can think of why the real reason she died was kept secret all those years was because nice people didn't talk about breasts.  This was in the mid 1960s so not so very long ago in one sense but a million years ago in another.

[ButterQueen]

28 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i believe that is what happened with my mother. of course i will never know the truth because in the old days, you did not speak about (whisper) cancer or talk to the children.

Reminds me of the wonderfully, heartbreaking movie One True Thing.  Meryl Streep’s character put off seeking health care until her breast cancer was too far gone.  I do think things have changed a lot these days.  My insurance waives any copay for preventative care.

13 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

I went back and watched some old episodes today, which I haven't done in a very long time, and it reminded me of how much the character meant to me, even with Barr never being the most natural actress. I just felt a real connection with her, which is one of the reasons why I checked out of the old show as she and what surrounded her became more and more sour and scattered...and also one of reasons that the way she was written for the revival felt like such a betrayal. Enough of one that I was still going to take a pass even after her exit and just keep my memories. The constant barrage of trolls attacking the cast is what changed my mind, and I'm glad they did. 

I also decided to watch a bit of last season, and she was very rusty indeed. I think she had a few decent moments, and I think she would have improved with another season, but it was such a struggle to separate Roseanne Connor from Roseanne Barr - it was like seeing a loved one you'd been close to become mean and broken, and you wonder if you had just made up the happy memories, or if you'd been fooling yourself all along. 

The show isn't the same without her, but it feels like so much of Roseanne Connor died a long time ago anyway. And in death, for all the talk of how this is some kind of insult or slap in the face to have her die while hiding her dependence on pain pills, I think it reconnects the character to what she used to be. On the old show, especially in the earlier to middle seasons, Roseanne kept so much of her pain to herself, because she felt like she had no real choice. She had to keep the family going. That she died for this reason, pride and fear and responsibility, and keeping secrets that she couldn't trust anyone else with, is a fitting sendoff, and an honest one. 

Beautifully written and I agree wholeheartedly.

[jewel21]

7 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

When talking to them, it was just Grandma and Grandpa.  When talking about them, we added the last name to differentiate.  If I had used their first name, there would have been $&@“ to pay.  That was considered disrespectful. 

My two sets of grandparents were called Polish Nana and Polish Nonno, and Italian Nana and Italian Nonno, heh. Nonno is Italian for grandfather, but we used it for both sets of granddads. My cousins thought my brothers and I were weird.

[iMonrey]

Quote

And in death, for all the talk of how this is some kind of insult or slap in the face to have her die while hiding her dependence on pain pills, I think it reconnects the character to what she used to be. 

Actually there was a precedent for making her addicted to pain killers because they established that she had an addictive personality in the show's original run: the episode where she was smoking again when they owned the bike shop. She admitted to Jackie "I always do this. I find something I like then I do it all the time. Thank God for birth control."

RE: Grandparents, Sally Kirkland played Mark and David's mother back in the day. It would be interesting to know if she has any relationship with David and Darlene's kids whatsoever. 

[Rap541]

12 hours ago, Ottis said:

I'm really becoming interested in the reaction to this character and her religion. When I watched the show, I thought she came across as capable and nonsensical and also religious. But nothing struck me as wrong, not even for hell comment (which I thought was played off as in-family humor).  But others seem bothered by it. 

I think it was a little brash and bold for a new character that we've barely heard from, particularly when the storyline was revolving around a death. 

I also think a lot of people twinge over her remarks, not because they weren't funny - they were - but because in real life, such remarks usually are coming from a place of judgement. So when I see a person pretty snippily tell someone else their views are wrong and their own religious choices are the only really correct ones and uh huh, if you don't get with the program, I will be smugly looking down on you.... It rubs me wrong even though I do know people who joke this way. Because sometimes... they do mean it. 

[littlecatsfeet]

On 18/10/2018 at 10:32 PM, Emily Thrace said:

Granny doesn’t surprise me, but I’m surprised that they referred to her as Rose. Dan always called her Rosie, so you’d think that they’d call her Granny/Grandma Rosie instead of Granny Rose. 

 

On 18/10/2018 at 10:32 PM, Emily Thrace said:

I wonder if it's what Roseanne Barr's grandkids call her. She did tend to bring her home life to work.

I think I could have been the only person who ever watched "Roseanne's Nuts", which was a Lifetime show (reality show) about her life on a macadamia nut farm in Hawaii. IIRC, her grandkids did call her Granny, so the Granny Rose doesn't jar me at all.

 

On 19/10/2018 at 1:20 AM, Pete Martell said:

I went back and watched some old episodes today, which I haven't done in a very long time, and it reminded me of how much the character meant to me, even with Barr never being the most natural actress. I just felt a real connection with her, which is one of the reasons why I checked out of the old show as she and what surrounded her became more and more sour and scattered...and also one of reasons that the way she was written for the revival felt like such a betrayal. Enough of one that I was still going to take a pass even after her exit and just keep my memories. The constant barrage of trolls attacking the cast is what changed my mind, and I'm glad they did. 

I also decided to watch a bit of last season, and she was very rusty indeed. I think she had a few decent moments, and I think she would have improved with another season, but it was such a struggle to separate Roseanne Connor from Roseanne Barr - it was like seeing a loved one you'd been close to become mean and broken, and you wonder if you had just made up the happy memories, or if you'd been fooling yourself all along. 

The show isn't the same without her, but it feels like so much of Roseanne Connor died a long time ago anyway. And in death, for all the talk of how this is some kind of insult or slap in the face to have her die while hiding her dependence on pain pills, I think it reconnects the character to what she used to be. On the old show, especially in the earlier to middle seasons, Roseanne kept so much of her pain to herself, because she felt like she had no real choice. She had to keep the family going. That she died for this reason, pride and fear and responsibility, and keeping secrets that she couldn't trust anyone else with, is a fitting sendoff, and an honest one. 

Thank you for articulating exactly how I've been feeling. I really wanted to like the reboot and tried to compartmentalize her politics and general meanness so I could enjoy the show, but it was such a struggle to do so. I felt so close to her old character, and it's just like you said...is it "them" or "me" that's has a skewed perspective on what they've become. Plus, I just didn't find the reboot very funny for the most part, but I really really tried to like it and probably would have kept watching, just to see the rest of the cast. I actually think killing her off improved the show, and I think her manner of death was quite appropriate to her character, as was the "joking" that some people found offensive. I've lived through a death in the family (my mom) and that's how we kept going too.

[CherryAmes]

On 10/20/2018 at 2:06 PM, littlecatsfeet said:

I actually think killing her off improved the show, and I think her manner of death was quite appropriate to her character, as was the "joking" that some people found offensive. I've lived through a death in the family (my mom) and that's how we kept going too.

 I think many people who find family joking around a death problematic haven't yet experienced the death of a close family member - adding the caveat that my experience has always been with older members of the family - I suspect the age of the deceased person makes a huge difference here.  I know my family isn't unique in the need to find humour in every situation -  if you can't laugh you cry I guess.  It's jarring the first time you're around people who have experienced a death and who can crack a joke but when it happens to you personally you get it.  Or anyway that's been my experience.  

Edited October 23, 2018 by CherryAmes

[peacheslatour]

Quote

 if you can't laugh you cry I guess. 

That's what my mom always used to say.

[Mom x 3]

On 10/19/2018 at 3:32 PM, Colorado David said:

Agree. Dying in a way not glamorous  is perfect, and I think RB would approve.

Except she doesn't...

I really loved this.  Despite the death of Roseanne Conner, it still felt like the same family.   I agree with whoever said they hope the family finds some personal success out of this.  I did initially cringe when Geena mentioned Darlene going to hell, but upon the second watch I caught Sara Gilbert snickering, so I think it was meant to be banter.  

Dan/Marcy, Dan/Darlene, Darlene/Jackie - great scenes all.  Very moving.  I will laugh my ass off if Goodman gets his emmy without Roseanne.

[FairyDusted]

On 10/19/2018 at 1:30 PM, Ottis said:

What was really odd was, if I remember correctly, in the Roseanne episodes earlier this year, the family viewed Mark as a question mark. While he clearly was different than some boys his age, they didn't know if that meant he was gay, or in a phase, or what. And they all tacitly agreed to give Mark room until Mark decided to share more.

Then in The Connors, Mark is treated as matter-of-factly gay, and while Dan still is struggling with his own issues, everyone, including Dan, is supporting of Mark and his seatmate crushes. They skipped over a lot.

What I remember most about the original Roseanne episodes was that they arrived after The Cosby Show had been a hit - and seemed so much more realistic than Cosby. I watched both, for a while, anyway. Cosby was never wrong, and the kids turned to perfect parents for answers, and I suppose that appealed to some. In my house, where my mom had divorced twice by then, Roseanne was much more of what we were used to (though not as Midwesterm hick). I liked Roseanne for that.

I'm really becoming interested in the reaction to this character and her religion. When I watched the show, I thought she came across as capable and nonsensical and also religious. But nothing struck me as wrong, not even for hell comment (which I thought was played off as in-family humor).  But others seem bothered by it. 

Also, she is the only religious character as far as we know. Others could be religious, and we haven't seen that, yet (or met them on The Connors).

Great points  but I wanted to comment before I forgot on the last sentence about religion shown on Original Roseanne for just a minute.

Roseanne had Darlene follow DJ around because he being secretive and she wanted to see whats up. Darlene found out he was visiting churches. Dan and DJ had a conversation that ended in  "We are good people. Just not practicing." I'm pretty sure its the episode where they keep on getting stoves delivered to the Diner.   

[langford peel]

It seems to be very important that certain viewpoints be de-platformed and "The Conners" seem to have accomplished this in a big way.

It is now a run of the mill sitcom just like any other. What gave it a chance to be different died with Roseanne's character in this episode.

[BlossomCulp]

5 minutes ago, langford peel said:

It seems to be very important that certain viewpoints be de-platformed and "The Conners" seem to have accomplished this in a big way.

I take it you mean there are differences between last years show and The Conners?  Because to me The Conners picked up where original recipe Roseanne left off.  I'd be interested in what you think The Conners didn't say in it's single episode so far that you felt was being said in the reboot.

[peacheslatour]

My Stove to Keep.

[Dee]

The show wasn't even subtle about cutting away from DJ & Geena's kiss.

[FairyDusted]

27 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

My Stove to Keep.

Thanks for the assist @peacheslatour

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

On 10/19/2018 at 1:43 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

You used exactly the word I was looking for-- pivotal.   The porch scene pivoted the storyline toward exploring  how many people may be in exactly the same position Roseanne was.

**raises hand*** I have a very small hoard of pain pills from an old back injury in my medicine cabinet (not opioids because I'm allergic). I also had some Ambien that I stopped using years ago I've passed a few of the pain pills off to a relative when he broke his ankle. (the Ambien finally got taken back to the pharmacy for disposal recently). So this isn't that shocking of a story line. 

I'm a practicing Christian and didn't take Geena's statement too seriously. It sounded like a typical Conner style joke. 

Jackie cleaning the kitchen was heartbreaking. I'm no Susie Homemaker but I did the same thing when my father passed away. I was scrubbing the corners endlessly under a cabinet that nobody could see with a 2 year old hanging off me. 

[Pete Martell]

7 hours ago, littlecatsfeet said:

I think I could have been the only person who ever watched "Roseanne's Nuts", which was a Lifetime show (reality show) about her life on a macadamia nut farm in Hawaii. IIRC, her grandkids did call her Granny, so the Granny Rose doesn't jar me at all.

I watched a few episodes. I remember one with Phyllis Diller (RIP), and that episode or another had Michael Fishman. I remember that was the first time I'd seen him since the original show. Kind of sad they aren't speaking now.

6 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

 I think many people who find family joking around a death haven't yet experienced the death of a close family member - adding the caveat that my experience has always been with older members of the family - I suspect the age of the deceased person makes a huge difference here.  I know my family isn't unique in the need to find humour in every situation -  if you can't laugh you cry I guess.  It's jarring the first time you're around people who have experienced a death and who can crack a joke but when it happens to you personally you get it.  Or anyway that's been my experience.  

And "Roseanne" itself treated a family death this way, as in the episode where their father died. So much of the outrage over Roseanne Conner's death and the reactions to it feels like people who never knew anything about the show or even about anything outside of the bot farm. I went to the Youtube video with Becky and Darlene trying to pay bills and arguing and laughing and some people were treating it like they had kicked her corpse. Surely there is enough wrong in the world today that outrage doesn't need to be manufactured. 

[BlossomCulp]

8 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

So much of the outrage over Roseanne Conner's death and the reactions to it feels like people who never knew anything about the show or even about anything outside of the bot farm.

I think a lot of the outrage would have happened no matter what the content of the show.  A lot of people had decided they weren't going to like this show without Roseanne and by god they aren't going to like it!  Which is fine.  But it's a little maddening that they spend so much time pretending that they were ever remotely about to give this show a fair chance.

Edited October 21, 2018 by BlossomCulp

[SmithW6079]

Some of the best family get-togethers I've been to have been at wakes. We mourn, but we also laugh.

[jhlipton]

On 10/19/2018 at 11:27 AM, jsbt said:

Speaking as a gay dude I don't think Mark has fully processed his orientation - he's like nine or ten. Some kids certainly do at that age, many don't. According to the episode though, everything seems sublimated around the idea of his 'seatmates.' Sure, Dan discusses it in terms of how he'd wondered when Mark would be 'ready to talk about it,' but how Mark perceives it still seems to have a kind of cognitive distancing to me. He has not come out and said he likes boys the way other boys like girls, but the point is understood by Dan as a step along the continuum. So I don't think that's so far a leap from where he was last season. There was a question mark, and now it's coming more into focus bit by bit. Nobody has to say 'Mark's gay now' but I think it's quiet, and organic. But YMMV.

This is exactly how I felt.  And I don't think Dan was necessarily making the jump to "Mark's gay", just making peace with the fact that it's OKI if he is.

My wife's family calls the grandmothers "Omma".

[DangerousMinds]

Just watched this tonight on the ABC app and i’m definitely in!

[GoldaVining]

I have a very bad dad and when I was young watching the original Roseanne series, Dan was my dream dad. I loved Dan so much. I wanted him to be my dad so hard. I still want Dan to be my dad. I identified closely with tv Darlene (although I wasn't sullen, just a tomboy). When the show returned last year I was so happy to have these people back. Then it all ended (again) and now they are back (again). In the meantime I had the original Roseanne series on DVD so I wasn't utterly bereft. I am so pleased to have these folks back (again!). The removal of Roseanne from the series is fine by me.

I have been lucky enough in real life to have married a Dan Conner who is an excellent dad.

This first episode was perfect for me and I'm just happy.

[bigskygirl]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:10 PM, Mu Shu said:

I thought it was pretty good, but the whole everyone in Lanford is miserable and struggling is getting old.

please let Dan get a break with a life insurance policy which allows him to retire and take up a part time at the Lobo.  That would generate some storylines outside the house.  Or take over Roseanne’s Uber route.  Not like The lotto storyline, just enough money to not have to struggle so much. 

As long as they stay away from politics and get some breaks, the cast will be fine without RoseNne.  I think she was the one driving the constant down and outedness and political crap.  

I seriously doubt Dan would get life insurance since Roseanne died from a drug overdose. https://www.jennylife.com/blog/does-life-insurance-cover-drug-overdose

One of my mother's younger sisters died from an accidental alcohol and drug overdose. It was a couple of days before they found her body. Her only son suffered from severe schizophrenia and was in and out of jail or mental hospitals. Sad all around.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I could have sworn that the show said Mark was 8 or 9 last season.

[Ottis]

On 10/20/2018 at 12:19 AM, Rap541 said:

I also think a lot of people twinge over her remarks, not because they weren't funny - they were - but because in real life, such remarks usually are coming from a place of judgement. So when I see a person pretty snippily tell someone else their views are wrong and their own religious choices are the only really correct ones and uh huh, if you don't get with the program, I will be smugly looking down on you.... It rubs me wrong even though I do know people who joke this way. Because sometimes... they do mean it. 

I agree. They mean it. And I have heard remarks like this IRL, from religious people, many times during my life (including from my own family, one member of which converted to a specific religion). So the fact that a character on this show did the same thing didn't strike me as odd. She didn't say anything that I haven't heard before, and the reaction of the family was the same as mine ... they know her, heard it and didn't think twice about it. That's why I'm interested in the reaction to her. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Ottis

[Rap541]

The other thing I would like to see explored with Gina although I doubt it will be is that DJ is actually, for a Connor, the successful sibling and not the slack jawed weirdo anymore. This won't be explored because Michael Fishman is a terrible actor but, think about it. DJ is what, retired from the Army? Successfully married to a woman who is also doing well in the military. As funny as it is for Darlene and Becky to continue to shit on their little brother like he's still a creepy little weirdo, he's the one who isn't an alcoholic and isn't living at home because of unemployment. Gina being strong willed (and a better actress) might not appreciate how dismissive the family is of her husband, for example.

[Sakura12]

Isn't DJ also unemployed? I think he was trying to reenlist at one point. That's why him and Dan were trying to do motorcycle repairs. He has the income from his wife so he doesn't have to move back home. He's struggling a bit like his sisters. 

[Rap541]

I think he is unemployed yes, but if he got out at the 20 year point, there would be some income coming in. My point is that in the circle of struggling Connors, DJ is the one struggling the least. 

[Mmmfloorpie]

I am a hardcore Roseanne (the tv show) fan and didn't think Roseanne's (the person) absence would make The Conners unwatchable especially since she was almost a bit character in season 10.

Boy how I was wrong. As weak as season 10 was, I felt I had to watch every week. After the first The Conners episode, I think I have seen enough.

The decision is made especially easy with news that Matthew Broderick will be dating Jackie. I already dislike him because he has that over-the-top, off Broadway, thesbian Jazz hands, "Eliza with a Z!" aura about him. The number 1 reason I hate the later seasons of Roseanne is "Whacky Jackie". So them together in a relationship is a total non starter for me.