Josiah and Lauren: He Has To Marry Somebody

[Snow Fairy]

I lost a pregnancy in week 9. I saw baby's heartbeat. I had another pregnancy after that.

I do not have that kind of sadness in my heart. I do not even ask myself "what if". Because if that baby was born, I wouldn't have my daughter. 

One thing that made me sad is that that was a spontaneus pregnancy, after 4 ivf for my first born. And then another 3 for my daughter.

Maybe time will "heal" Lauren, and she will not think so much about Asa. Life moves on, things happen.

Joy is the only one who will remember her baby, real child, her whole life, and that is different and ok 

[dargosmydaddy]

Maybe "Miss Understood" should be Lauren's new nickname. Spelling and mechanics do not seem to be one of her favorite pass times...

[cmr2014]

37 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Maybe "Miss Understood" should be Lauren's new nickname. Spelling and mechanics do not seem to be one of her favorite pass times...

Even by Duggar standards, that entire post is embarrassing.

[galaxychaser]

Well LAUREN probably was home schooled by a parent who isn’t well educated. 

Yay as Jill would say.

[leighdear]

I assumed that Lauren wrote that post & used a pink onesie to show sympathy for Joy, the person closest to her that recently lost a baby girl.  

But I must be the only person that thought that, because obviously there's more information out there that it was just a Lauren bid for attention and not real support.  

[doodlebug]

29 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I assumed that Lauren wrote that post & used a pink onesie to show sympathy for Joy, the person closest to her that recently lost a baby girl.  

But I must be the only person that thought that, because obviously there's more information out there that it was just a Lauren bid for attention and not real support.  

I didn't realize you had inside information explaining that the post was directed at Joy, please share.  As it is, most of us jumped to the conclusion that Lauren's post was mainly about her own loss because virtually every post Lauren makes mentions her first pregnancy and references 'Asa' as the name of the child she lost despite not actually knowing if it was a boy or a girl.  

It seems odd to me that Lauren went out a bought a pink outfit to memorialize Joy's loss rather than just using some of the clothing she undoubtedly has collected for her new baby.  Once again, please share your insider info.  For that matter, it might've been nicer if Lauren hadn't chosen an outfit in a color that is identified with one sex.  Too bad she didn't get something yellow or green or multicolored to stand for all babies since she obtained the outfit specifically for the month's remembrance.

I hope everyone has been very supportive of Joy.

[farmgal4]

8 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

Yeah, 

(From Reddit) 

Lauren STILL doesn’t get it.

[becca3891]

On 10/11/2019 at 9:50 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's all man-made and designed to keep women shackled to mediocre men.  Divorce was an option for Jews during Jesus's life.  In the Bible, Joseph almost divorces Mary before Jesus is born.  Polygamy was also present in the Old Testament.  

But the New Testament has a number of pretty clear verses condemning divorce. Jesus said numerous times that it's only permissible in the case of adultery. (I'm an atheist; I just grew up reading the bible in a fundamentalist church so I want to give them credit where credit is due.) Polygamy was also condemned in the New Testament.

[GeeGolly]

I assumed Lauren pulled a stock photo off the internet. The toys in the bassinet don't look very Duggarish to me.

If the post was for Joy, why not say so? Joy has been very open about her loss and probably would have been touched by a post remembering Annabelle.

All-About-Lauren doesn't seem to be able to think past herself, except maybe when a SM poster calls her out on it.

[leighdear]

12 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I didn't realize you had inside information explaining that the post was directed at Joy, please share.  As it is, most of us jumped to the conclusion that Lauren's post was mainly about her own loss because virtually every post Lauren makes mentions her first pregnancy and references 'Asa' as the name of the child she lost despite not actually knowing if it was a boy or a girl.  

It seems odd to me that Lauren went out a bought a pink outfit to memorialize Joy's loss rather than just using some of the clothing she undoubtedly has collected for her new baby.  Once again, please share your insider info.  For that matter, it might've been nicer if Lauren hadn't chosen an outfit in a color that is identified with one sex.  Too bad she didn't get something yellow or green or multicolored to stand for all babies since she obtained the outfit specifically for the month's remembrance.

I hope everyone has been very supportive of Joy.

I have no inside information, nor did I say I did.  But since most of the posts presumed to know exactly why Lauren posted that, I thought everybody else had the inside info. 

I don't know & don't really care. As I said, I just assumed Lauren was supporting her sister-in-law.  I don't constantly delve into the psyche of these people like many do. 

Now I'm done with it all. 

[Lunera]

I wondered if maybe she posted that on that particular day (Oct 10) because it was the day she miscarried. Still it was kind of messed of to do it the day after Amy gave birth. Also, the post wasn't about Joy and her baby, it is about herself as always. The pink clothes are probably gifts from her baby shower. 

Joy has moved on with her life. She grieved and is focusing her love and attention on her son. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Lunera

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

I wondered if maybe she posted that on that particular day (Oct 10) because it was the day she miscarried. Still it was kind of messed of to do it the day after Amy gave birth. Also, the post wasn't about Joy and her baby, it is about herself as always. The pink clothes are probably gifts from her baby shower. 

Joy has moved on with her life. She grieved and is focusing her love and attention on her son. 

It's possible it was the day she miscarried! If so, I wish she had explained it. It would have made her look better to have a reason for posting the day after Amy gave birth!

[Temperance]

That pink onesie was so pale I wasn't sure it was pink. Maybe it's the way Lauren used the outfit, but the color seems morbid and lifeless to me.

[Sew Sumi]

Given Lauren's date of fetal demise and her stated due date, she was all of 5w1d when she miscarried.

[laurakaye]

Um......what's in this box?? (she asked with fear and trepidation)

[galaxychaser]

Let’s hope it’s not Asa’s remains in a jar or something...

Or Lauren’s used maxi pad...

[Lunera]

28 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Given Lauren's date of fetal demise and her stated due date, she was all of 5w1d when she miscarried.

She talked about it last season. It had the pee stick, the only photo she took pregnant, and letters that she and Josiah wrote to Asa.

[Mya]

on the box it says Made Sept 2018

with Jesus Oct 4th

I would assume she was about 5 weeks along?

[Sew Sumi]

10 minutes ago, Mya said:

on the box it says Made Sept 2018

with Jesus Oct 4th

I would assume she was about 5 weeks along?

5 weeks, 1 day based on the date of her miscarriage and due date (same as Jessa's, 6/6).

Edited October 16, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[BetyBee]

[Thorkim]

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

[PikaScrewChu]

4 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Given Lauren's date of fetal demise and her stated due date, she was all of 5w1d when she miscarried.

So she didn't announce at Michelle's birthday after all. They quite like to fudge timelines.

I always find this one so strange that they were able to keep under wraps for filming. The Duggars can't keep a secret to save their lives. 

I think had they said something earlier it would have humanized Lauren more and people would be feeling more sympathy for her. She would have gotten away with a lot more if people had the "she's a kid who just had a miscarriage. Let's give her a break." in the back of their minds. 

Instead she comes off incredibly insufferable and people have no issue commenting on how insufferable she is. 

Wonder if it is a part of the end game. Better to be hated and on TV than loved and not on TV?

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

Let’s hope it’s not Asa’s remains in a jar or something...

Or Lauren’s used maxi pad...

At 5 weeks 1 day, Asa would've been no more than a cluster of microscopic cells.  The whole pregnancy, including the gestational sac, would've been about the size of a small grape.

[Temperance]

37 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I always find this one so strange that they were able to keep under wraps for filming. The Duggars can't keep a secret to save their lives. 

It's really hard to tell when someone is pregnant (early term) and so the Duggars have kept it secret when they want to. Jessa has never announced a pregnancy before she was at least 3 months along. There's speculation, but then there was speculation for the year 1/2 or so after Henry was born, and she wasn't pregnant. 

They've also kept most of their courtships under the radar until they were sure they would lead to marriage (Si and Marjorie the exception). And then they kept Josh's scandals under the rug for years....

Edited October 16, 2019 by Temperance

[PradaKitty]

Interesting how they “know” the cluster of cells she passed was a boy. 
 

I used to work with a guy named Asa. He was weird...

[Sew Sumi]

Asa is a girl's name in some parts of the world (pronounced ah-sa). But I doubt Lauren has seen Shahs of Sunset. 😁

[allonsyalice]

But asa’s arbitrarily assigned sex is male. The cake topper said Big Brother Asa. It’s.....confusing. 

[awaken]

Oh my goodness gracious. This poor girl needs some life experience. I’ve had two 13-week miscarriages myself and it’s absolutely terrible and traumatic at the time, and I’ll never forget it, but you go on eventually, not stay completely fixated on it. She really needs professional support to work through this and to have more in her life. I think with nothing else to do or focus on other than gestating, this is so magnified for her. 

[BetyBee]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

Oh my goodness gracious. This poor girl needs some life experience. I’ve had two 13-week miscarriages myself and it’s absolutely terrible and traumatic at the time, and I’ll never forget it, but you go on eventually, not stay completely fixated on it. She really needs professional support to work through this and to have more in her life. I think with nothing else to do or focus on other than gestating, this is so magnified for her. 

Her dramatic tears over the "worst thing that ever happened to her"  just show her youth and lack of life experiences.  Lauren, none of us knows what life has in store for us, but there will be losses for certain.  Losses of fully formed people who are near and dear to us who will not be replaced by rainbow babies!  Did she actually say she still cries about this every day?  She's about to give birth to her daughter.  How about having some gratitude and joy?

[rue721]

I think if she's still crying every day and her grief is still so intense, that it's probably not about the miscarriage anymore. Not to say that her grief isn't valid, but this is extreme to the point of being disturbing.

Maybe it's a mental health issue, maybe the miscarriage triggered other pent-up feelings, who knows. But at this point I think she really does need professionals to help her through it. There's no timeline for grief but this level of intensity just isn't tenable.

I also feel terrible for Josiah. Who knows how he's feeling but it can't be easy.

[PikaScrewChu]

14 hours ago, Temperance said:

It's really hard to tell when someone is pregnant (early term) and so the Duggars have kept it secret when they want to. Jessa has never announced a pregnancy before she was at least 3 months along. There's speculation, but then there was speculation for the year 1/2 or so after Henry was born, and she wasn't pregnant. 

They've also kept most of their courtships under the radar until they were sure they would lead to marriage (Si and Marjorie the exception). And then they kept Josh's scandals under the rug for years....

To be fair, people knew about Joshley. No one believed the rumors. 

Whose courtship have they really kept under wraps recently? Jabbie and the Vuolos are the only ones who come to mind but is it really keeping a secret for a long period of time if you're rushing to engagement at break-neck speed? The Vuolos timeline is actually kind of startling how fast they went from courtship to engagement considering how much older Jeremy is and how much more "worldly" he was than Jinger. 

Derrick and Jill were the only ones who I would really consider that they kept secret but it also helped Dullard was hiding out in Nepal for the vast majority of it. 

[Fuzzysox]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:22 PM, farmgal4 said:

Lauren STILL doesn’t get it.

But, but, but if she would get it, it would weaken her "love story" and the attention she so desperately is seeking.

I give Josiah 5 years before he explodes from her attention seeking bullshit.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

To be fair, people knew about Joshley. No one believed the rumors. 

What most of us knew about Josh was that he'd broken some sort of fundy rule regarding the opposite sex and was made to confess in front of the church and was sent away.  A lot of us figured it was typical teen aged behavior like making out with a girl his own age or something similar and not criminal.  For me, anyway, it never occurred that he could have serially molested his sister and others or that his parents would cover it up.  We also knew that he was suspected of being the 'sin in the camp' that was blamed for the loss of a Congressional race he'd been working on and that it involved watching porn on the campaign's computers.  Once again, not great, but not unheard of for a teenage boy with no other outlets.

I. for one, was completely stunned when the real truth was revealed.

[Annb67]

1 hour ago, Fuzzysox said:

But, but, but if she would get it, it would weaken her "love story" and the attention she so desperately is seeking.

I give Josiah 5 years before he explodes from her attention seeking bullshit.

I'm already ready to explode and I've seen this chick maybe a total of 5 hours accumulated on TV. I can turn her off. I can't imagine living with this little girl 24/7. Maybe he can tap into his mom's happy pills.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Annb67

[louannems]

1 hour ago, Fuzzysox said:

But, but, but if she would get it, it would weaken her "love story" and the attention she so desperately is seeking.

I give Josiah 5 years before he explodes from her attention seeking bullshit.

Five years with that breathless, gaspy, whispery girl-woman?  Poor Josiah!  His youth is ruined.

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

What most of us knew about Josh was that he'd broken some sort of fundy rule regarding the opposite sex and was made to confess in front of the church and was sent away.  A lot of us figured it was typical teen aged behavior like making out with a girl his own age or something similar and not criminal.  For me, anyway, it never occurred that he could have serially molested his sister and others or that his parents would cover it up.  We also knew that he was suspected of being the 'sin in the camp' that was blamed for the loss of a Congressional race he'd been working on and that it involved watching porn on the campaign's computers.  Once again, not great, but not unheard of for a teenage boy with no other outlets.

I. for one, was completely stunned when the real truth was revealed.

The "Alice" post was fairly explicit what he did and who was involved (the oldest sister was not touched line is what I remember the most). It was out there and it seems the people around Tonitown knew. They didn't want to be the "snitches get stitches" person.

I think it was a lot of people in the fundie snark universe just thought it was ridiculously absurd for a variety of reasons. I thought it was absurd at the time because surely TLC wouldn't film a family that had those kind of issues, would they? Surely JB and Michelle would have made sure their daughters were protected first and foremost?

Now it doesn't seem implausible given what we know about these mega families who homeschool and keep their families away from civilization. The Willis family looked like the perfect mega family when I saw them on AGT. Yikes. Appearances are deceiving. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

What most of us knew about Josh was that he'd broken some sort of fundy rule regarding the opposite sex and was made to confess in front of the church and was sent away.  A lot of us figured it was typical teen aged behavior like making out with a girl his own age or something similar and not criminal.  For me, anyway, it never occurred that he could have serially molested his sister and others or that his parents would cover it up.  We also knew that he was suspected of being the 'sin in the camp' that was blamed for the loss of a Congressional race he'd been working on and that it involved watching porn on the campaign's computers.  Once again, not great, but not unheard of for a teenage boy with no other outlets.

I. for one, was completely stunned when the real truth was revealed.

Yes. I too have followed the Duggars since 2004 and I thought Josh was caught with a girl his own age (who had consented!!) and the adults were ashamed and sent him away. 
 

I never dreamed Josh would hurt his little sisters of all people! 

3 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

But, but, but if she would get it, it would weaken her "love story" and the attention she so desperately is seeking.

I give Josiah 5 years before he explodes from her attention seeking bullshit.

Yes this won’t end well. Add on money stress, a bunch of small children. I do feel awful for Josiah- bubbly extroverted kids don’t become sad sack adults without some sort of illness or underlying depression. 

[floridamom]

I also thought that Josh and that first girl he was betrothed to maybe got a bit 'frisky' with each other, yes consentual, and perhaps were caught alone together. Definitely not what was discovered. Yes, the Alice post was right on target. It also revealed what an awfully neglectful and lazy mother Michelle was and most likely is still today. I knew I didn't like that woman from the start. I saw the first special and tuned in after that all those years ago. 

Yes, I agree that Michelle looked like she was done with the show this week, I think it's because she is not longer conceiving and not the center of attention for it. She's a side salad and her daughters are the main course. Jinger being the favorite item on the Duggar Buffet Line. Still selfish, that lady.

[Oldernowiser]

Okay...FFS. I was trying so hard to cut her slack...

1) Is there any scientific evidence that Asa was male or is she just totally pulling shit out of her fluffy brain?

2) She kept the pee stick??? WTF? This is a thing that has been urinated upon. In what world does this become a keepsake? What’s next, used diapers? She took a picture with the thing, which is still plenty icky, but keeping the actual test?

I can’t with her.

[PikaScrewChu]

The Wallers used the (still wet!) pee stick when they announced Priscilla's first pregnancy. 

Seems par for the course with these folks. 

[Ohiopirate02]

31 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay...FFS. I was trying so hard to cut her slack...

1) Is there any scientific evidence that Asa was male or is she just totally pulling shit out of her fluffy brain?

2) She kept the pee stick??? WTF? This is a thing that has been urinated upon. In what world does this become a keepsake? What’s next, used diapers? She took a picture with the thing, which is still plenty icky, but keeping the actual test?

I can’t with her.

To answer #1--she apparently miscarried at 5 weeks.  There is no way to determine what sex that embryo would have become.

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

the Duggar Buffet Line.

Thank you for this! I will forever view the Duggars based on where and what they are on my personalized Duggar Buffet Line. Jeremy & Jinger are the newly filled bowl of Spring Mix, JB & Michelle are the wilted, slightly slimy bowl of chopped iceberg lettuce, and Josh is the nasty melting lime jello with canned mixed fruit that someone picked out all the cherries from.

[GeeGolly]

A Lauren pop quiz

A. Crying every day to garner sympathy.

B. Crying because of intense feelings.

C. Saying you're crying every day. 

D. Actually crying every day.

A 

C

B & D

[Sew Sumi]

E. Saying you're crying every day to garner sympathy.

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay...FFS. I was trying so hard to cut her slack...

1) Is there any scientific evidence that Asa was male or is she just totally pulling shit out of her fluffy brain?

2) She kept the pee stick??? WTF? This is a thing that has been urinated upon. In what world does this become a keepsake? What’s next, used diapers? She took a picture with the thing, which is still plenty icky, but keeping the actual test?

I can’t with her.

Technically, had Lauren collected the tissue she passed and took it to a lab for genetic testing, she could've found out if the chromosomes were normal including the sex of the conceptus.  Of course, this is pretty expensive and not recommended in a young healthy woman who has lost her first pregnancy.  However, I doubt that happened.  It seems to me that Lauren has constructed a rather elaborate fantasy story about the pregnancy and assigning the baby's sex so that she could name it is part of the fictional tale she has written in her head.

Anyone, no matter what loss they have suffered, needs professional help if they are still crying daily after a year.

[Sew Sumi]

To be fair, she made the crying remarks when they filmed this episode around February. Who knows if she still cries? I certainly hope she's put this behind her and is focused on her little girl.

[nightmeri]

Question: was Asa assigned “his” biological sex prior to finding out she was expecting a girl this time? I am just picturing her as a young girl saying “I am going to have a boy first, followed by a girl...” as she dreamed of her adult life. Once she found out “baby #2” was a girl, then Asa had to be a boy

[BitterApple]

I can handwave Lauren assigning a gender and name to the baby. If it brings her comfort to think it was a boy, so be it. What I find concerning is the fact that she's still hung up on the loss a year later when she's expecting a (presumably) healthy girl. 90% of her social media feed and TH's are about Asa, with the occasional throwaway nod to baby #2. 

Whether it's genuine grief or an attention grab, it's not normal behavior. She needs therapy, asap. 

[Churchhoney]

16 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay...FFS. I was trying so hard to cut her slack...

1) Is there any scientific evidence that Asa was male or is she just totally pulling shit out of her fluffy brain?

2) She kept the pee stick??? WTF? This is a thing that has been urinated upon. In what world does this become a keepsake? What’s next, used diapers? She took a picture with the thing, which is still plenty icky, but keeping the actual test?

I can’t with her.

She's pulling shit out of her fluffy brain. As far as I know, two to three months in is when you start to be able to see the sex without lab tests. 

That's why I think they named the heavy period after the governor, Asa Hutchinson.

He was much in the news at the time for his enthusiastic touting-around-the-nation of Arkansas's new abortion bill -- which is unique in having a clause that allows it to immediately shift to a complete ban the instant Roe v. Wade is overturned. And while I know that their cult likes the idea of a boy as first kid, I really wonder whether first-kid and world-champion drama queen Lauren would be terribly devoted to that idea.

What I do know is that their cult and both their families are very very devoted to anti-abortion politics and trying to build their own influence and prestige by rubbing hard up against the leading politicians in that arena. So being able to suck up to the local anti-abortion-powers-that-be would be right down their street.

By naming her lost "boy" Asa and pointing to the date of his tragic loss, she can eternally demonstrate that, even in the midst of her own overwhelming grief, she was so devoted to their most vital cause that she rallied from her personal tragedy to honor what was going on in history at just that moment. The super-champion Asa Hutchinson -- who'll go down in history and sit beside Christ in glory for his determination to save all the babies who would otherwise be lost to the heathen hordes. 

They wouldn't say that on TeeVee, of course, because they know by now to keep that kind of thing quiet when showing off for the heathen hordes. But in their own circles, she's now got a way to bring up her miscarriage forever and use it not just to get sympathy but to demonstrate that she's a heroic figure because of what she remained conscious of even in the time of her own personal grief. Doing that seems very very Lauren to me, at least. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Scarlett45]

I admit I know nothing about this being childfree, and being raised by an Ob/Gyn I have a very clinical view of pregnancy. 

Saving positive pregnancy tests IS A THING now! I asked my very non fundy mainstream friends and they saved them! I was shocked. But they aren’t on display or anything.....shock. Shock. 
 

So Lauren saving hers isn’t odd, for the record I didn’t think the photo was odd, but the rest of it, she is just too much.