S02.E04: Chapter Four: Will the Wise

[Athena]

Quote

An ailing Will opens up to Joyce -- with disturbing results. While Hopper digs for the truth, Eleven unearths a surprising discovery.

 

[Arynm]

I knew that cat was done for when they brought the slimy pollywog onto his house. Poor cat!

[kokapetl]

Winona’s mapping/placement of the tentacle drawings seems borderline impossible, 90 percent of the drawings are interchangeable. 

Taking away Eleven’s TV was incredibly stupid. It was the only freakin thing keeping her entertained and occupied.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Kokapetl

[SnoGirl]

3 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Winona’s mapping/placement of the tentacle drawings seems borderline impossible, 90 percent of the drawings are interchangeable. 

They had to one-up those Christmas lights...although I dont think anything will be as iconic.

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Taking away Eleven’s TV was incredibly stupid. It was the only freakin thing keeping her entertained and occupied.

I had the same thought.  What else is she going to do all day?  Read?

Parenting a moody child with telekinesis has its unique challenges.

R.I.P., Dustin's cat.  If only Dustin had been more concerned about the pet he already had.

[ghoulina]

That final shot of Hopper under the pumpkin field was awesome. Very Twilight Zone. 

I really feel for Max. I wish they'd just tell her the back story. Her stepbrother is a total sadist. She needs some friends. 

Some really tense moments with Hopper and El this eposide. Typical teenage angst fights. ...but. ..yea, she can move shit with her mind. 

So it looks like Dart is a smaller Demigorgon. As it feeds, it's going to continue to grow. Kill it now. 

I KNEW Nancy and Jonathan were up to something more clever than it seemed. But I can't believe the lab people wouldn't have patted them down.

So are Will's drawings going to be this year's Christmas lights? 

[UGAmp]

So are Max and the (step?) brother, the kids of Paul Reiser? I’m just not seeing the whole purpose of them (especially the brother) beyond adding a girl to the four boys since Eleven needs to be separated from them. That’s my shot in the dark since Paul’s character said he was brought in to fix things and the kids just moved from California. *shrugs*

[bettername2come]

Hopper, I know you mean well, but maybe you shouldn't anger the telekinetic girl with limited people skills.

El screaming "Mama!" broke my heart. This girl deserves so much better than she gets.

Dart won't be content eating the other family pets forever. Kill him now.

[Last Time Lord]

I just knew where it was going to go when Dustin's mother was calling the cat for its dinner.

[haje]

That argument between Hopper and Eleven is probably some of the best acting on this show ever. Props to Millie and David Harbour for absolutely bringing it. They're easily my favourite dynamic this season. I get that Hopper means well but man, isolating Eleven was such a terrible idea. It's too bad he couldn't have confided in someone like Joyce about this because she absolutely would have given him some much needed advice on how to have handled that entire situation better than he did. 

[thuganomics85]

Had a feeling Dart was going to stay small and innocent for long.  That poor cat never had a chance.  I wonder what Dustin is going to do now, especially if it means he has to tell the rest that he has been lying to them.  Mike in particular, is going to be freaking pissed!

So, Nancy and Jonathan actually knew they were being recorded over the phone and wanted to get taken in.  They've now recorded Paul Reiser's character admitted what happened, so I guess they are planning on taking this information somewhere?

Will does seemed effected by whatever is happen and can now feel what the big shadow feels or something.  Also, Hopper seems to have have found that the Upside Down world is leaking from underneath the pumpkin patch.  Uh oh!

Billy seems to have a automatic hatred for Lucas, apparently.  Or is it just for anyone that is close to Max?

I understand disciplining a child when they act up, but one with telekinesis means you might need to approach it differently.  And now that Eleven knows her mom is still alive, I imagine this is only going to make the void even bigger for both of them.

[EarlGreyTea]

3 hours ago, haje said:

That argument between Hopper and Eleven is probably some of the best acting on this show ever. Props to Millie and David Harbour for absolutely bringing it. They're easily my favourite dynamic this season. I get that Hopper means well but man, isolating Eleven was such a terrible idea. It's too bad he couldn't have confided in someone like Joyce about this because she absolutely would have given him some much needed advice on how to have handled that entire situation better than he did. 

I feel bad and, I'm sure, part of a tiny minority when I say that I just don't like the Hopper and Eleven storyline, for the reasons you mentioned. I get it, I get that he needs to keep her safe and that's it's really dangerous out there. I also think he brings out the best in Millie, acting-wise (along with Finn, Winona, and Modine), so the scene where they fought was a pleasure to watch.

Having said all that...I'm just not a fan of how isolated she was, like you mentioned. Had I stumbled onto this show randomly, I'd have thought he was holding her as a kidnapper. I realize Hopper is far from a kidnapper and had few choices, but I just couldn't help feeling uncomfortable at the whole dynamic. The kid's just had the absolute shittiest, isolated life and now she's stuck in a cabin instead of enjoying her newfound freedom and growing closer to the friends she made. Her separation from Mike is particularly hard to watch (and frankly, a pretty flimsy excuse to keep them apart).

[blueray]

22 hours ago, Arynm said:

I knew that cat was done for when they brought the slimy pollywog onto his house. Poor cat!

Me too :(. Poor cat.

 

I agree that Hopper needed to tell someone (most likely Joyce) about Eleven. I keep hoping he brings her in to help with Will. Also I hope she gets to have scenes with the other kids soon, especially Mike. I think he should have approached her differently about going out and explained to her the risks (that she already knows). And the TV is the only real connection she has right now.

I figured that Nancy and Johnathan had more of a plan that just meeting her parents. They knew there phones were being moderated.

[KatsaKriid]

8 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I feel bad and, I'm sure, part of a tiny minority when I say that I just don't like the Hopper and Eleven storyline, for the reasons you mentioned. I get it, I get that he needs to keep her safe and that's it's really dangerous out there. I also think he brings out the best in Millie, acting-wise (along with Finn, Winona, and Modine), so the scene where they fought was a pleasure to watch.

Having said all that...I'm just not a fan of how isolated she was, like you mentioned. Had I stumbled onto this show randomly, I'd have thought he was holding her as a kidnapper. I realize Hopper is far from a kidnapper and had few choices, but I just couldn't help feeling uncomfortable at the whole dynamic. The kid's just had the absolute shittiest, isolated life and now she's stuck in a cabin instead of enjoying her newfound freedom and growing closer to the friends she made. Her separation from Mike is particularly hard to watch (and frankly, a pretty flimsy excuse to keep them apart).

I agree with you about not liking the Hopper/Eleven storyline very much. The acting between them has been amazing and it warms my heart how Hopper has taken Eleven under his wing, but I'm starting to get bored. I also don't understand how Hopper has managed to keep her whereabouts on the down low, considering the fact that the Hawkins Group has eyes everywhere. How has she not been discovered? I know Hopper is working with them now, but considering how they are keeping a close eye on potential liabilities, a secluded cabin doesn't seem like a good enough explanation, no matter how isolated he is trying to keep her. I guess this storyline is about to get interesting now that Eleven has made a connection with her mother. That was such a heartbreaking scene! ? 

I loved the way they shot that pumpkin/upside down scene! And Dart is a baby Demogorgon! Cripes, I'm glad this show is back! 

[Lady Calypso]

Oh man. Will's scenes were breaking my heart, but especially in the scene where he's telling his mom about the monster. Between him and Millie Bobby Brown, they really got some super talented actors and actresses. If they're this good at their age, I can only imagine how much better they'll get over time.

Speaking of Millie, her scenes with David Harbour were just as good. They've become my favourite relationship, by far. I loved the anger radiating from both of them. It feels so realistic, like a real parent-child relationship. If only El understood relationships more, she'd really see how much Hopper loves her. Hopper's handling this all wrong, but his reasonings are simply to protect her, because he doesn't want her to be put away. Even through his threatening of her, all he wants is for her to be safe. But El doesn't understand all of that yet, and she's still a kid, so her losing control of her powers in their scene was powerful and beautifully done. 

Seriously; the whole first ten minutes, between Noah, and Millie and David, need to be nominated for an Emmy. They're my favourite ten minutes of any TV show. 

I'm glad for competent characters. Nancy/Jonathan having a plan and it working was great. Now, I'm not sure what their best plan of attack is with the recording. I think taking it to the Hollands could be bad, but also it would give Barb's parents peace when they hear that their daughter really is dead.

I'm a little frustrated with Dustin; I can admit that he's my least favourite out of the children. As much as I understand him and think the actor's doing such a great job, I'm just not warmed to Dustin, especially with his immediate trust over Dart. But he's still a kid, so it's totally understandable that he doesn't get how dangerous it is to keep Dart....especially, now with the cat. I'm glad I read the first post to this episode thread before watching the episode, because I could prepare myself for that.

I really liked Max's scene with Lucas. I'm not sure what's up with Billy, though. He seems to hate his sister, or stepsister, but then he seemed to loathe Lucas in his talk with Max, as if he's trying to protect her. He says he's stuck looking out for her, but he's choosing to act on those feelings. 

Poor Will; I think he's really gotten the worst of it in this entire series so far. Now, with the monster taking hold of him last episode, it seems like Will has a part of that monster still in him. Interesting that he's now developing physical symptoms. 

I think Will and Eleven need to be finally introduced. They might be able to help each other.

Christmas lights are still better than the drawings for me.

[snowwhyte]

Max's step-brother is a nasty piece of work. Maybe he's a control freak who wants to keep her isolated or maybe he is just a racist. His reaction to Lucas was pretty over the top although he doesn't seem particularly stable. Did anyone else wonder if he might be gay after his conversation with Steve in the showers?

[Hope]

1 hour ago, snowwhyte said:

Max's step-brother is a nasty piece of work. Maybe he's a control freak who wants to keep her isolated or maybe he is just a racist. His reaction to Lucas was pretty over the top although he doesn't seem particularly stable. Did anyone else wonder if he might be gay after his conversation with Steve in the showers?

yup, definitely thought the show was hinting at the brother's racism, and now I'm worried for lucas. And the shower scene left me thinking the same thing. Also, do we know for sure that they're not related by blood? I know the brother has mentioned that "they're family now" but the connotations of that statement are unclear. I'm so curious about their background and how the brother will somehow fit into the show (besides antagonizing Steve). Maybe he'll be a casualty of the fledgling demigorgon.

[dju]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Speaking of Millie, her scenes with David Harbour were just as good. They've become my favourite relationship, by far. I loved the anger radiating from both of them. It feels so realistic, like a real parent-child relationship.

 

I could not agree with this more. Their scenes have been the only ones I've rewatched since completing the entire season. Very visceral, raw and believable. The best dynamic to come out of this season imo.

[DEM]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm glad for competent characters. Nancy/Jonathan having a plan and it working was great. Now, I'm not sure what their best plan of attack is with the recording. I think taking it to the Hollands could be bad, but also it would give Barb's parents peace when they hear that their daughter really is dead.

That was so cool.  They have to be careful with the Hollands, but that is so upstanding of them to be concerned for their well-being.

Billy (Max's whatever) is the absolute worst.  If the show later tries to explain his behaviour through the reveal of some sad, dark secret, I won't care. He's too far gone.

[Danny Franks]

Demagorgon baby! Shit! It never rains but it pours, along with the vines growing out under Hawkins, killing everything.

Yes, Eleven is a brat, Hopper. But she's a brat with superpowers, so you really need to be more careful than you are being. It will do Eleven the world of good to be treated like a normal girl, but he has to be smarter than going straight to shouting and threatening punishments.

Lucas is so dramatic. "Well, well, well..." I remember people complaining that he was just angry all the time in season one, but it seems like that's just his personality. He overreacts to everything. I'm still really liking Max. She's a good fit for the group, apart from when Mike is being a dick to her.

So something is incubating inside Will, and can't take heat? "No. He likes it cold" was creepy as hell. And it bears saying again, Noah Schnapp is killing it this season. Again, with the connected drawings, the writers and designers of this show really understand how to create iconic visuals.

Jonathan and Nancy, off on another adventure. I imagine there will be romantic shenanigans aplenty before the season is done. Their storyline seems more 70s than 80s, so far, with the government conspiracies and surveillance. Paul Reiser's is affably menacing, but I'm not sure whether he's a villain or sincere in trying to contain previous mistakes. But man, Nancy is a smart girl. The tape recorder reveal was wonderful.

The increasing homoeroticism of Billy flirting with Steve is very Top Gun. But with more hair spray and guyliner. Brilliant. Shame he's a psycho and probable racist. I dread to think what his parents are like.

So El finds out about her mother, and ventures back into that nowhere space to do it. I don't like the name Jane, though. Too dull and humdrum for Eleven. Damn, Millie Bobbie Brown is doing some heavy lifting in this show. A big, emotional scene where she breaks down, and she's the only person in it. No other actor to play off or react to.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Danny Franks

[nodorothyparker]

Poor poor kitty.  As soon as Mama Dustin called the cat to dinner you could see where that was going.  Dustin's going to have some 'splaining to do on that.

These kids are absolutely killing it this season.  Noah Schnapp didn't get much to do last season but he's doing a bang-up job selling me his fear and confusion about what's happening to him here.  I wasn't convinced that Joyce or anyone really could piece together his giant map o' scribbles either, but we'll go with it since it moves the plot along to digging deep enough to find underground tunnels the Upside Down is leaking into.  The Hopper-Eleven fight was extremely well done in feeling like a realistic fight you'd have with a moody preteen (Ask me how I know.), you know, if that preteen also some serious telekinetic powers to slam things about and shatter glass that maybe you should tread lightly with.  When Hopper first told her she was grounded, our reaction was a universal how does that change anything for her?  She's already locked up alone in a house in the woods all day with the curtains drawn.  Taking away her only connection to the outside world really isn't doing anything to help the feeling of isolation that's driving her rage.  I know Hopper is doing what he's doing to try to keep her safe, but this should probably be his wake up call that he needs to be figuring something else out to allow her more human interaction.  It's convenient, I suppose, that the box of records for the Hawkins Lab was left in the crawl space for her to find.  Eleven crying for the mama she'd never known was heartbreaking.

It's kind of amusing that Joyce's response to her kid going weird and talking about monsters is to call the local police chief eight times over the course of a morning rather than a doctor or a psychiatrist and that everyone seemingly just accepts this as a matter of course, albeit with a certain amount of eyerolling.  It's also amusing how readily Hopper accepts it because he knows what kind of show he's in.  The adult leads do have lovely chemistry.

I like that Nancy and Jonathon were allowed to be competent and have a plan that worked exactly how they wanted it to.  I am going to need there to be some kind of point to Billy soon other than being a random douche with hair band hair. 

[mmecorday]

I would rather Demagorgon Jr. had eaten the turtle. The whole deal with Dustin and Dart made me think of a horrible movie called "Pod People" and thank you very much for THAT, show.

[LittleIggy]

21 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I just knew where it was going to go when Dustin's mother was calling the cat for its dinner.

Me, too, and I hated it! ? 

[VCRTracking]

RIP Mews.

Millie was the MVP last season but I think this season it has to be Noah. He was amazing.

Millie of course was great too. Eleven finding her mother and her and Hopper's fight was gutwrenching with both actors giving their all.

I admit Nancy's plan was clever. Although while it was cool last year that the adults, teens and kids had separate storylines that converged late in the season, now it's just frustrating they don't all tell each other what the hell is going on since they're the only ones that know what's going on.

Steve having to deal with the new mulleted douche reminds me of Jaime Lannister and Euron Greyjoy in the latest season of Game of Thrones.

[wayne67]

3 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I would rather Demagorgon Jr. had eaten the turtle. The whole deal with Dustin and Dart made me think of a horrible movie called "Pod People" and thank you very much for THAT, show.

I assumed that Demagorgon Jr had already eaten the turtle because A) it's slow and would be easy to eat since it was last seen on the floor B) Jr had grown significantly since we'd last seen it and supernatural growth is usually aided by eating something large.  

Dustin got super attached to the pet he had for a couple of days, ignoring the other 2 pets in the house. Dustin is my least favorite of the children.

That shower scene was odd, as is Billy. I'm still waiting for the punchline or purpose behind his addition to the show. 

[MisterGlass]

I felt so bad for Dustin's mom and the cat.  I'm under the impression that his mom has no idea what happened last year.

El throwing things at Hopper and shattering all the glass was intense.  It really highlighted his imperfections and how much of a child she is inspite of everything she can do.  I am surprised that they circled back to El's mom rather than leaving that in Season 1, but it makes sense.

It's a small thing, but in a past episode Hopper talked about knowing some guys who had post traumatic stress, and then in the boxes under the floor there was one labeled Vietnam.  It seems Hopper is also a veteran.

[Clanstarling]

On 10/27/2017 at 6:32 PM, ghoulina said:

That final shot of Hopper under the pumpkin field was awesome. Very Twilight Zone. 

I don't generally take much notice of the shots - but yeah, that one was so good I rewatched it. 

On 10/27/2017 at 11:49 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Had a feeling Dart was going to stay small and innocent for long.  That poor cat never had a chance.

Billy seems to have a automatic hatred for Lucas, apparently.  Or is it just for anyone that is close to Max?

I cringed as the camera started following the blood trail. I knew I didn't really want to see what Dustin would see, but I couldn't look away.

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh man. Will's scenes were breaking my heart, but especially in the scene where he's telling his mom about the monster. Between him and Millie Bobby Brown, they really got some super talented actors and actresses. If they're this good at their age, I can only imagine how much better they'll get over time.

I'm a little frustrated with Dustin; I can admit that he's my least favourite out of the children. As much as I understand him and think the actor's doing such a great job, I'm just not warmed to Dustin, especially with his immediate trust over Dart. But he's still a kid, so it's totally understandable that he doesn't get how dangerous it is to keep Dart....especially, now with the cat. I'm glad I read the first post to this episode thread before watching the episode, because I could prepare myself for that.

I think Will and Eleven need to be finally introduced. They might be able to help each other.

These kids are amazing, and I look forward to seeing them grow and win Oscars. :)

Dustin's actually my favorite. I like his sweet, enthusiastic, nature - and trusting things he shouldn't trust is part of it. Which is, of course, frustrating to us adults who've already learned the bitter lessons. 

19 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

Max's step-brother is a nasty piece of work. Maybe he's a control freak who wants to keep her isolated or maybe he is just a racist. His reaction to Lucas was pretty over the top although he doesn't seem particularly stable. Did anyone else wonder if he might be gay after his conversation with Steve in the showers?

Yes on everything - but I'd say there's no "or" - I think he's both a control freak and a racist.

On 10/27/2017 at 7:45 PM, UGAmp said:

So are Max and the (step?) brother, the kids of Paul Reiser? I’m just not seeing the whole purpose of them (especially the brother) beyond adding a girl to the four boys since Eleven needs to be separated from them. That’s my shot in the dark since Paul’s character said he was brought in to fix things and the kids just moved from California. *shrugs*

Oh, I like that analysis. I wonder why the brother would blame Max - could she be a successfully socialized version of El? We know there are more out there - who are in the world and not the lab.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Clanstarling

[secnarf]

9 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Dustin got super attached to the pet he had for a couple of days, ignoring the other 2 pets in the house. Dustin is my least favorite of the children.

This seemed pretty typical of an excited child. Kids tend to be short-sighted.

Then again, I like Dustin, but I do think his behaviour in this case was typical for a child.

[Pike Ludwell]

I guess it's hard to have a story without people making stupid mistakes, communicating poorly, and acting irrationally and against their self interest. But this show seems to be driven from that moreso than most, and these idiot characters are starting to drive me crazy!

[tennisgurl]

Poor kitty cat. Its likely the turtle also got eaten, so poor turtle. I knew it was coming, but still nasty. That being said, I dont really blame Dustin for wanting to trust his new pet. He`s an excitable and sweet kid who loved his new pet, and it didn't even occur to him that his other pets (let alone anyone else) could be in danger because of it. 

Nancy and Jonathan actually had a solid plan, I am officially impressed. Interested in seeing where their road trip goes from now. Its the US government vs...two teenagers from Indiana! Even the apparently kinder and gentler conspiracy is still a conspiracy. Speaking of the teens, it seriously seems like psycho Billy doesn't so much want to replace Steve as the big man on campus as much as he wants to ask him to prom. Seriously, the homoerotic vibes that guy is shooting off towards him is getting to Top Gun levels. However, I hope nothing comes of it, because Steve can totally do better than that creep. 

Oh Will. I just want things to turn out alright for him. The thing is eating him up from the inside, and he has no idea what to do. I think, if the thing hates the heat, they should toss Will into a hot tub and see what happens. 

It was a super dramatic scene, but I chuckled when El came back to the cabin and saw Hop just standing on the porch smoking a cigarette. You can just hear her thinking "oh crap, dads pissed", it just looked so typical father/teen daughter. I feel for both of them. Hop is just trying to keep El safe, but isolating her, especially after a life as a lab experiment, is a horrible idea. She is clearly losing it, and Hop has no idea how to handle it. And what makes everything worse is the fact that rebellious teenage daughter has psychic powers...

[Clanstarling]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It was a super dramatic scene, but I chuckled when El came back to the cabin and saw Hop just standing on the porch smoking a cigarette. 

That was another great shot - Hop was mostly a shadow, and the cigarette tip glowing red with each puff was very cool, visually.

[Kel Varnsen]

How the hell is Dustin going to explain this to his mom. It is not like he can easily clean up a dead cat and that much gore.

Also my speculation is that Max's family is in some kind of witness protection. Maybe her step brother was forced to leave his home because of his parent marrying into Max's family.

And I agree that Millie Bobby Brown is good, like almost distractingly good. In the scene where she was crying over her mother I actually felt bad for her even though I know it is just a tv show.

[terxav]

Mike and Ell’s attachment seems to be tittering on romantic infatuation.  It makes me a little uncomfortable how strongly they feel.  That being said I totally see the Max & Lucas pairing, Dustin is too wrapped up in himself to be real friends with the other boys .  His researching possible species shows the kid has intelligence.

 

Dustin seems like the indifferent scientist type, everything being okay to sacrifice for the advancement of science .  His secret keeping is beyond crazy for a character who encountered everything he did in season 1.  When Dart sprouted legs it was a wrap for everyone besides Dustin.  I see a rough road for him to gain the trust of the group.

 

The brother came across as bisexual to me vs. homosexual.  Which is interesting a male bisexual character is not seen often.  But his racist characteristics has been seen often IRL and fiction. The instant stay away from their kind was creepy.  It also seems like Max knows he is a racist and gos to great lengths to hide her like for the ‘nerds’.  

 

The Billi - Max relationship seeems to be a 180 of the Will - Jonathan relationship.

 

i felt bad for Steve, Nancy proclaiming she did not remember the night before to me actually makes her statements more believable. there was no filter and she said what she truly belived.  Which is what Steve saw and hear and hoped was not the case but when drunk and sober Nancy are unable to say I love you it confirmed his worst suspicions.

[Ellaria]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:45 PM, UGAmp said:

So are Max and the (step?) brother, the kids of Paul Reiser? I’m just not seeing the whole purpose of them (especially the brother) beyond adding a girl to the four boys since Eleven needs to be separated from them. That’s my shot in the dark since Paul’s character said he was brought in to fix things and the kids just moved from California. *shrugs*

 

On 10/28/2017 at 2:49 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Billy seems to have a automtic hatred for Lucas, apparently.  Or is it just for anyone that is close to Max?

 

On 10/28/2017 at 4:16 PM, Hope said:

yup, definitely thought the show was hinting at the brother's racism, and now I'm worried for lucas. And the shower scene left me thinking the same thing. Also, do we know for sure that they're not related by blood? I know the brother has mentioned that "they're family now" but the connotations of that statement are unclear. I'm so curious about their background and how the brother will somehow fit into the show (besides antagonizing Steve). Maybe he'll be a casualty of the fledgling demigorgon.

 

On 10/29/2017 at 10:20 AM, Clanstarling said:

I wonder why the brother would blame Max - could she be a successfully socialized version of El? We know there are more out there - who are in the world and not the lab.

Lots of interesting comments here about Billy and Max. I hope that Billy’s purpose is revealed soon because I am starting to get annoyed whenever he is on screen. Right now, he appears to be a racist, abusive bully and, as a result, I’m hoping that he becomes a snack for the demigorgon. I suspect that there is more to it because this show seems to avoid one-dimensional characters.

I like the suggestion above that he and Max may be Paul Reiser’s kids. I also think it’s possible that Max is another Eleven. The opening scene in Episode #1 was there for a purpose. There are more of them out there.

The acting in this show continues to amaze. It is the quiet scenes that reveal how much everyone brings to their roles. None of it feels affected; it feels real. (Except for Billy. Sigh!) Glad that we get to see more of Noah Schnapp this season; he is really talented. 

Steve is going thru some tough times. 

And RIP to the poor kitty. 

[rubinia]

On 28/10/2017 at 9:39 PM, mmecorday said:

I would rather Demagorgon Jr. had eaten the turtle. The whole deal with Dustin and Dart made me think of a horrible movie called "Pod People" and thank you very much for THAT, show.

“Dart, you can do STUPID things!”

[KaleyFirefly]

On 10/28/2017 at 1:47 AM, Last Time Lord said:

I just knew where it was going to go when Dustin's mother was calling the cat for its dinner.

Justice for Mews!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Man, there was a lot of Firestarter vibe with El and Hopper. I totally get his frustration and trying to teach her that there are consequences for breaking the rules, but the bigger problem is that she has not learned how to control her temper and that's really dangerous because of her powers. If she really hurt Hopper in a moment of anger, she would regret it.

Loved the old school thermometer with Joyce watching for three minutes. That's what it was like before digital thermometers!

Oh, Dustin. He could really use a reminder of what Eleven and Mike told each other: friends don't lie. He has his friends scrounging around in a dumpster because he won't tell them that he already found Dart and took him home. And who paid the price? MEWS!

The music during the basketball game was hilariously perfect.

I'm still getting used to seeing El with hair. I miss her bald look.

So is Zac Efron with a mullet a racist or just your run of the mill asshole who thinks his (non) sister shouldn't be talking to boys?

Wherever they filmed this show, they have beautiful sunsets.

[absnow54]

I'm glad for competent characters. Nancy/Jonathan having a plan and it working was great. Now, I'm not sure what their best plan of attack is with the recording. I think taking it to the Hollands could be bad, but also it would give Barb's parents peace when they hear that their daughter really is dead.

I was confused about the plan though. Nancy knew that their phone was tapped, so she used it to contact Barb's parents to set the trap, but she didn't actually want them to show up. Did she contact them offline after to cancel? Or did she assume that the Lab would find some way to waylay their arrival? Anyway, I can't believe the entire plan hinged on nobody discovering the giant tape recorder in Nancy's purse.

[Clanstarling]

47 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I was confused about the plan though. Nancy knew that their phone was tapped, so she used it to contact Barb's parents to set the trap, but she didn't actually want them to show up. Did she contact them offline after to cancel? Or did she assume that the Lab would find some way to waylay their arrival? Anyway, I can't believe the entire plan hinged on nobody discovering the giant tape recorder in Nancy's purse.

That's a good point. If I were to guess, I'd say they were only listening in on the Wheeler's line - but that does seem like it would be a stupidly big hole in their surveillance. But even that doesn't explain who/which phone was on the other end of that line.

[absnow54]

Yeah, either Nancy called them back from another line to cancel, or the Lab sent some utility folks to distract the Holland's from leaving for the meeting. We do see Barb's mom on the other end of the phone call, so we know Nancy isn't talking into the void, pretending to set up a meeting.

[Taryn74]

On 10/30/2017 at 10:30 PM, rubinia said:

“Dart, you can do STUPID things!”

Heh.  Beat me to it!

[candle96]

On 10/29/2017 at 9:20 AM, Clanstarling said:

 

Oh, I like that analysis. I wonder why the brother would blame Max - could she be a successfully socialized version of El? We know there are more out there - who are in the world and not the lab.

My thoughts are that Max and Billy have to somehow be related to the same project Eleven was a part of, especially since we saw evidence of "Eight" out there in the world, not doing good things, either. Max's line about "well, we're family now," made me think they were thrown together by some event not of their choosing. Plus the lack of showing their parents/caregivers cannot be an accident.

Another random, probably wrong thought. Billy's hairline is a little off for a teenager, like he's already balding a bit, and I have no idea if that's a deliberate choice. Just made me wonder if he's actually older, and spying on the kids who were a part of the events last year. Not sure why that would lead to him antagonizing Steve, though.

Edited November 1, 2017 by candle96

[truthaboutluv]

24 minutes ago, candle96 said:

Not sure why that would lead to him antagonizing Steve, though.

My guess is that is not part of the plan and simply his natural asshole tendencies. I'm with others that the reveal needs to come fast with him because while I am loving everything about the season, the Billy character is really killing it for me. Like someone else noted, it's gotten to the point where I'm literally irritated the second he shows up onscreen. 

And it sucks for the Max character because her I like. But unfortunately whatever her storyline is, it's clearly tied to him. Speaking of Max, can't blame her for her annoyance and frustration. Lucas and company did seek her out to be friends and yet they basically tell her she's unwanted during certain moments (granted that's more Mike rudely dismissing her and we all know he has his own issues against her). Yes, we know and understand why they exclude her from the discussions of what happened to Will and all the supernatural stuff but she wouldn't know that so I understood her essentially telling Lucas to kick rocks. 

Less understanding to me was Dustin. In fact I was full on annoyed with the character. I get that he's for the most part a sweet, young child. And if this was the first season where he'd just found a strange creature that his friends wanted to kill just because it looked strange, I would understand his protecting it and need to lie about it, especially as he's clearly a science buff. However, he found this thing after all the shit that went down last season and things that he knows and has seen. Dustin may be young but he is not stupid.

They all now know very well that this whole underworld, complete with scary murderous monster exists and despite Will telling them that the creature looked like something he vomited up after being found and that he hears the creature when he sees the underworld or has a dream about it or whatever is happening to him, Dustin decides to hide this thing and lie to everyone else about it. And so now the family cat is dead which will probably destroy his poor mother. And he's also now in a jam with this pretty decent size creature in his house that clearly eats living things. Great...

I figured Nancy and Jonathan had some plan but I agree with others that it was a little stretch of the imagination that an organization that is so well connected in watching all of these people to ensure they tell no one what happened, brought the two to the institution but didn't search their bags/belongings. Also, while I like Jonathan's relationship with Will, I actually don't care about him and Nancy and am not interested in them as a romantic pairing. Like others, who knew but Steve kind of grew of me since last season. Hoping he gets to do more this season other than being dumped by Nancy and being antagonized by the creepy asshole. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[mledawn]

I loved the scenes with Hopper and El. They have such a sweet relationship, and I like the way they fought. Hopper trying to explain himself while yelling, and El having none of it while throwing stuff... it still seemed pretty respectful with no instances of "ohhhh, s/he's going to regret that later".

Dustin protecting Dart is annoying - he knows how dangerous these Upside Down creatures are and yet he's hiding one? A demagorgon pet? Nah.

[Anela]

Poor cat. :(

Hopper and El reminded me of me and my dad. 

[dju]

7 hours ago, mledawn said:

I loved the scenes with Hopper and El. They have such a sweet relationship, and I like the way they fought. Hopper trying to explain himself while yelling, and El having none of it while throwing stuff... it still seemed pretty respectful with no instances of "ohhhh, s/he's going to regret that later".

1

I'm with you on loving their scenes but I have to disagree with the assessment that the fight didn't cause regret nor did it hold elements of respect. It started fairly explosively with the way they were screaming at each other (El even visibly startles at points) but it wasn't until he threatened to send her back to the lab with such finality ("One phone call. I can make that happen.") that I knew we had reached a very significant point of no return. That'd be a low blow just coming from a person who didn't know much about her experiences in the lab but coming from him? That's especially and intentionally cruel coming from him. And she responds to it in kind by physically attempting (and somewhat succeeding) to hurt him. Both of those actions I think caused deep regret within both of them.

[The Companion]

On 10/27/2017 at 2:07 PM, Kokapetl said:

Taking away Eleven’s TV was incredibly stupid. It was the only freakin thing keeping her entertained and occupied.

My take was that he was struggling to figure out something that would have an impact on her and get through to her. He was probably scared out of his mind and he can't figure out a way to make her understand that. He started with "you're grounded" and then realized that didn't really have an impact, so he was floundering to come up with some sort of consequence that would have meaning to her. Once he found one, she doubled down and he had to. I feel for Hopper. He is trying to figure out how to parent a fully formed and damaged human being and he has no resources. He doesn't believe he can even ask for advice because he is trying to keep her safe. The fight broke my heart for both of them. 

 

On 10/27/2017 at 11:31 PM, bettername2come said:

El screaming "Mama!" broke my heart. This girl deserves so much better than she gets.

My heart! She was absolutely devastating, wasn't she? Millie does a lot of things well, but she is a master at vulnerability. I just want to wrap her up in a huge hug and make it all go away. 

On 10/28/2017 at 0:53 AM, haje said:

That argument between Hopper and Eleven is probably some of the best acting on this show ever. Props to Millie and David Harbour for absolutely bringing it. They're easily my favourite dynamic this season. I get that Hopper means well but man, isolating Eleven was such a terrible idea. It's too bad he couldn't have confided in someone like Joyce about this because she absolutely would have given him some much needed advice on how to have handled that entire situation better than he did. 

I am hoping we will eventually get there. I have to say I loved Joyce in this episode. She took her son seriously. After what she saw last season, she was the first to consider the possibility that this wasn't PTSD. I think she has absolutely done all of the right things this season to try to support her traumatized son, but I was particularly touched by her taking him seriously. She has experts telling her that this is psychological, but she remembers what it is like not to be believed when the Upside Down is intruding on your life.

Hopper is struggling, and part of that is that this is a totally new relationship for him. El is broken but so is Hopper. It is what makes those scenes particularly poignant for me. Both long for a family and both are doing their best. You just want them both to take a deep breath and talk it out. I think Hopper is so scared of losing El (like he lost his child) that he wants to lock her up and keep all the bad men away. Any risk is unacceptable. That is no way for a girl to live, and particularly one who has spent her entire life isolated and alone. On the other hand, she does run a real risk of exposure, even if they manage to change her appearance. She doesn't have any coping mechanisms and she is carrying a lot of anger and sadness. It is hard because they are both right.

On 10/28/2017 at 1:46 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I'm a little frustrated with Dustin; I can admit that he's my least favourite out of the children. As much as I understand him and think the actor's doing such a great job, I'm just not warmed to Dustin, especially with his immediate trust over Dart. But he's still a kid, so it's totally understandable that he doesn't get how dangerous it is to keep Dart....especially, now with the cat. I'm glad I read the first post to this episode thread before watching the episode, because I could prepare myself for that.

 

Admittedly, I love Dustin. His relentless optimism and huge grin warm my cold cynical heart. I really think Dustin saw Dart as his ET (when he is really more of a Gremlin). Kids aren't great at assessing risk and danger, plus Dart has been so small and manageable up until this point that I really don't think he could have predicted how quickly this would become a problem. I think Dustin was just so excited about having this cool little pet who seemed to have a real connection with him, that it didn't really hit home how dangerous the entire situation could be. RIP Mew Mew and possibly Myrtle (poor Myrtle, evicted and maybe eaten).  

 

On 10/29/2017 at 9:20 AM, Clanstarling said:

These kids are amazing, and I look forward to seeing them grow and win Oscars. :)

The cast is really spectacular. I don't know where you find this many exceptionally talented kids. All I need now is a cameo by Lady Mormont. 

On 10/31/2017 at 7:38 AM, absnow54 said:

I was confused about the plan though. Nancy knew that their phone was tapped, so she used it to contact Barb's parents to set the trap, but she didn't actually want them to show up. Did she contact them offline after to cancel? Or did she assume that the Lab would find some way to waylay their arrival? Anyway, I can't believe the entire plan hinged on nobody discovering the giant tape recorder in Nancy's purse.

My only explanation is that they underestimated Nancy because she was a kid. Still, it seems like a pretty big oversight not to at least check her purse. It's not like the tape recorder was small. I assumed they had some sort of plan for a trap last week, but I don't feel like we really got a full explanation this week. I can hand wave it because it has Nancy doing something interesting. 

It was REALLY hard not to stay up last night and binge watch the next episode. They are setting up a really intriguing season. I was honestly wondering when I saw them burning the roots if the Upside Down could really be contained to the one portal and low and behold, it is sneaking in under the town. I don't know how you defeat this thing. I agree with several posters that the only thing that is falling flat for me is the Billy character. I just can't get into the mystery of is he just an asshole? Is he a racist asshole? Is there something else I don't care about because he is an asshole? At this point, I just want him to be Dart food. It's not working for me. That being said, the rest of the show is so good that it doesn't matter. 

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, The Companion said:

I don't know where you find this many exceptionally talented kids. All I need now is a cameo by Lady Mormont. 

Me too!

[mledawn]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:04 AM, dju said:

I'm with you on loving their scenes but I have to disagree with the assessment that the fight didn't cause regret nor did it hold elements of respect. It started fairly explosively with the way they were screaming at each other (El even visibly startles at points) but it wasn't until he threatened to send her back to the lab with such finality ("One phone call. I can make that happen.") that I knew we had reached a very significant point of no return. That'd be a low blow just coming from a person who didn't know much about her experiences in the lab but coming from him? That's especially and intentionally cruel coming from him. And she responds to it in kind by physically attempting (and somewhat succeeding) to hurt him. Both of those actions I think caused deep regret within both of them.

Yes, you're right. I rewatched that episode last night and that jumped out at me. Obviously El saying "I hate you" was a typical kid thing but I had forgotten the threat of sending her back to the lab. Prior to my rewatch I did think they regretted the fight, but had forgotten that cruel line.

[rove4]

Things are really starting to pick up now.

Joyce is such a great mom.  I love the way nothing is too off the wall for her when it comes to doing what she needs to do to help her kids.

Not fond of rebellious Eleven, even though I understand where her frustration comes from.  The memory of running in terror for your life doesn't last long, it seems.

Good to see Nancy and Jonathan have a plan.

Hopper...down in the squicky tunnels.  We watch this show as a family and my 11 year old daughter was frantic thinking Hopper might die.  #SaveHopper

RIP Dustin's cat.  Dart is going to keep growing and something tells me he won't stick to eating just household pets.

Edited November 3, 2017 by rove4