S13.E11: Week 10: The Final Rose / S13.E12: After the Final Rose

[Artsda]

I don't even know what to think of her comments on her family, they definitely seem not on board. Were they even there at the end? Didn't look like. I don't think her fam expects this to last long.

[Palomar]

33 minutes ago, bantering said:

On another note, I guess  he looked a little depressed, and  perhaps  that  makes people feel sorry for him, but I don't understand why any guy would go on  THIS particular show  if they think  they can  convince a woman not to want to  get engaged. The women who go one  this show go in with the mindset of nabbing a ring. The premise of the show is somewhat  like the idea of going for an arranged marriage....except with, er, sex and televised loud open-mouthed kissing.  Maybe she went for her second-choice,  as people have speculated, but sometimes that happens with arrangements.

Yeah, Peter seemed almost surprised she wouldn't go for a future of "dating" when all along she said over and over again she was there for marriage.  I always thought Bryan was the one (not being spoiled) and the favorite and it seemed the other men did as well. I would have been shocked if she would have picked Peter.  Maybe part of what went down at the end is the wanting what you can't have  (which might have been something she discussed in therapy...who knows).  She would have "hated" being pegged as the first Bachelorette not to get engaged and having everyone constantly asking "when are you getting engaged". She lived that before (just not in the public eye). 

Would definitely prefer Dean over Peter as the Bachelor (not knowing what happens with Dean in BIP). Not sure if either are ready for marriage, but when you look at the track record, not too many of the Bachelors have been.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Palomar

[wonald]

I rewatched the Rach-Peter live bit and the "I'm living my best life" wasn't as bad as I remembered. However, Rach gave enuff attitude that the audience loudly reacted and CH called her reaction "upset".  That's just so far from what I expect someone who is living her "best" "non-mediocre life" to be acting. Esp if Bryan was always the One as she keeps insisting. Which means that she was stringing 29 men along for months but how dare anyone string poor Rach! Nah.

[slowpoked]

If Peter really meant what he said about his feelings for Rachel (put aside the fact that there may be other motives for being on this show), then it was very naive of him to think that he could get away with being the final guy and NOT propose. C'mon, this is  not a new show, it's not as if no one knows what the end game is. And he's seen how the people who didn't propose or get a proposal get crucified afterwards.

I was with him when he said that he loves Rachel but those feelings just developed recently, and therefore he want those to matriculate first before jumping to the next level. That's what normal relationships are anyway - you date a few years, you figure out that you want to marry a person, then propose. It's not the other way around - propose first, then date a few years, then marry.

With that said, Rachel has been very clear about what her expectations were. Again, putting aside all other possible motives, he probably hung around with the thought that he could maybe change her mind. But when she wasn't budging, he should have taken himself out knowing they both wanted different things. Rachel hung around long enough too - she should have cut him off as well when he wasn't budging. This drama is both on them.

[JenE4]

51 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

It is surprising to me that people think this. To me there have been no signs she would've chosen peter over Bryan. Everything has been pointing to Bryan...the watch, the dates he gets, the fact that he met her friends, her reaction to him saying I love you the first time. Bryan has been in first place since the first night. IMO

I think she was incredibly frustrated and hurt by peter because she was played and she figured that out. She also thought he was the safer pick because Bryan scared her/was too good to be true.  She wanted the peter option because she didn't trust Bryan. But peter was actually the one playing her.

I was totally on board that it was always Bryan UNTIL this finale. Her overnight with Bryan she was completely distracted thinking about Peter to the extent that Bryan had to give HER the where are your feelings at cross-examination, and she admitted in a talking head that she wasn't fully giving her attention to Bryan because of thinking about Peter. Then the night before she got engaged to Bryan she was still trying to talk Peter into getting engaged and only backed out that it wasn't going to work when he repeatedly called getting engaged to her a "sacrifice." If she knew she was going to pick Bryan the next day, she wouldn't still be trying to pull a proposal out of Peter. She would be saying to herself that yes, do it once and it won't be to me, so you go ahead and save that proposal. I believe what Rachel was saying last night and in the press that there were more issues with Peter than JUST the proposal but the show only focused on that. And the show will create a bigger conflict to make it seem like that's ALL they talked about. But the facts of the matter is that she DID needle him on that proposal on EVERY date--including getting a MONK to attempt to persuade him on marriage!! To Peter's defense, of course if that's the focus of every date it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that she's not just LETTING love develop. But, back to the original point, if you removed THIS episode, I do think it was a Bryan Love Story. It's just a shame that the finale and the live color commentary made it all about the break-up instead.

On a different common topic here, "living your best life" is the new go-to Millennial phrase nowadays, like YOLO was a few years ago. My daughter, who is about to be a senior in college and is just finishing up an AMAZING internship in a big NYC financial institution, in which she's lavished with all kinds of events to entice her to sign on for a full-time job, is constantly gushing how she's living her best life. And anything from having a delicious dessert to seeing a happy puppy acting all waggly will be labeled as Living his/her/your/mine/its Best Life. So it made perfect sense to me that Rachel's reaction to "mediocre life" was I'm living my best life! It was just the hand wave and head flip that added an extra slightly FU layer to it.

[ridethemaverick]

13 minutes ago, wonald said:

I rewatched the Rach-Peter live bit and the "I'm living my best life" wasn't as bad as I remembered. However, Rach gave enuff attitude that the audience loudly reacted and CH called her reaction "upset".  That's just so far from what I expect someone who is living her "best" "non-mediocre life" to be acting. Esp if Bryan was always the One as she keeps insisting. Which means that she was stringing 29 men along for months but how dare anyone string poor Rach! Nah.

Well...yeah. She was the bachelorette. The guys are supposed to be vying for HER attention, not the other way around.

Do all bachelorettes get accused of being entitled, wanting to be worshipped, and having their expectations set too high, or is it just Rachel? Sincere question since this is my first time watching since season 1.

[SnapeCharmer]

I'll keep my thoughts succinct:

From the beginning Rachel stated that she came on the show to find her future husband. That was definitive from day one. She was not looking for a boyfriend, but a husband. Period. This show is not the dating game, dating in the dark, or singled out. It's The Bachelorette. Everyone knew what they signed up for. Aside from that, this is a show and editing techniques make portrayals suspect. It's in their contracts.

If Peter's heartbroken, color me surprised. Because hours before the live finale, he was on SM seemingly living his best life. Not heartbroken. Rachel's moved on. She's with Bryan and every time we see them together she glows, smiles and is full of laughter. She's living her best life too. Despite what anyone else thinks or says.

[b2H]

4 minutes ago, SnapeCharmer said:

I'll keep my thoughts succinct:

From the beginning Rachel stated that she came on the show to find her future husband. That was definitive from day one. She was not looking for a boyfriend, but a husband. Period. This show is not the dating game, dating in the dark, or singled out. It's The Bachelorette. Everyone knew what they signed up for. Aside from that, this is a show and editing techniques make portrayals suspect. It's in their contracts.

If Peter's heartbroken, color me surprised. Because hours before the live finale, he was on SM seemingly living his best life. Not heartbroken. Rachel's moved on. She's with Bryan and every time we see them together she glows, smiles and is full of laughter. She's living her best life too. Despite what anyone else thinks or says.

Yeah, but the rude awakening for both Rachel and Peter came when they had to watch the edited version of what happened in Spain that night.  When they showed Peter backstage before he came out to face her, he was about as close to a fetal position as I have ever seen anyone in a fetal position.  If that was acting on his part, he deserves an Oscar, but I sincerely believe that wasn't acting.

[Wandering Snark]

Imagine a fairy tale land where all cliche relationship tropes are happily played out. It's on a island know for wrecking boats on it's rock shores. You can see it from normal dry land and there are plenty of stories of how wonderous it can be. This was Peter's issue, he knew where he wanted to get to and bask in the sun but there was no bridge and there's sharks in the water.

He finally gave up his image of building that bridge together and skipping off down the yellow brick bridge and said "Fine, I'll just carry you on my back across the waters even if it might kill me. For you." but that wasn't enough because she needed to be able to see the bridge. There was no diamond encrusted bridge.

[saber5055]

I wish this show had continued as it normally does, that Neil Lane came to Spain (I bet he hated missing that trip) and both boys picked a ring. Then Peter gets to Tornado Mountain first (we know what that means), and Rachel stops him before he gets on one knee. Peter sighs, "Whew! Dodged a bullet" and leaves. Then Bryan arrives and everyone gets their happily ever after. WTH show, that would have been awesomely romantic instead of the crap train wreck and angry confrontations you gave us last night. Everyone would have saved face, TB would have kept its (fake) "there for the right reasons" veneer, and (most) of us viewer would be (sort of) happy.

[bantering]

37 minutes ago, wonald said:

  Which means that she was stringing 29 men along for months but how dare anyone string poor Rach! Nah.

But the premise is that the Bachelorette has 29 men competing for her affection and the Bachelorette can see all these men with their consent (and the premise is designed by producers, not the person being competed for). They go in knowing that's how it works, and that she can eliminate them at any time. In her case, her placement as the Bachelorette is upfront about this. I'm not really sure if Peter's reasoning was necessarily as upfront as the premise of the show itself (which,  yeah, is sleazy, but there are no illusions about what you're getting into). 

Edited August 8, 2017 by bantering

[StatisticalOutlier]

20 minutes ago, SnapeCharmer said:

From the beginning Rachel stated that she came on the show to find her future husband. That was definitive from day one. She was not looking for a boyfriend, but a husband. Period. This show is not the dating game, dating in the dark, or singled out. It's The Bachelorette.

Then they should make them get married at the final rose ceremony.  Put up or shut up.

[adhoc]

I'm going to repost a comment from CrushOnSpivey, who said the following on Reality Steve's website:

"I have thought for many years now that the lead on this show gets a base plus a bonus structure.

"Bonuses for kissing as many people as possible. Bonuses for how many tell them they love them. Bonuses for drama in the house if they play along with it when asked. Bonuses for the Final 2 wanting to propose. Bonus for a final proposal.

"This is a TV show after all, so giving your lead incentives to make things happen to create what TPTB thinks makes a better show makes sense. It also would explain why Rachel leaned so hard on Peter for that proposal–so she could turn him down?"

 

I have to say this makes sense to me. I think at least one previous contestant mentioned something about being offered monetary incentives, or incentives like use of a cell phone, etc. 

Plus just think about the handlers on this show and how they manipulate the contestants. (Ex-handler Sarah Gertrude Shapiro once got an eliminated contestant to cry during the limo scene by "...tapping into her "food issues." I asked her, 'Do you think he dumped you because you are fat?'")

Who knows what was said to Rachel to help shape her actions during the show? "Do you want to be the only bachelorette not to receive two proposals?" Something along those lines? (Which sucks for Rachel because, IMHO, she did not get a really appropriate group of guys to choose from in the first place. Too young, too racist, too gimmicky, etc.) And maybe she was even told "Peter's really into you. He just needs a little more encouragement." We'll never know.

Likewise, there's Peter. Who's to say he didn't tell his handler "I'm not really feeling it with Rachel" that his handler didn't respond "She really likes you, and if you do your best to stick around, maybe you'll be in a good position to be our next Bachelor."

Moral of the story: It's a show. It's produced and contestants are "handled". Things are edited, spliced and diced. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Edited August 8, 2017 by adhoc

[ribboninthesky1]

33 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

Well...yeah. She was the bachelorette. The guys are supposed to be vying for HER attention, not the other way around.

Do all bachelorettes get accused of being entitled, wanting to be worshipped, and having their expectations set too high, or is it just Rachel? Sincere question since this is my first time watching since season 1.

There's definitely been some dog-whistle racism during Rachel's season, but I can assure you: just about every Bachelor or Bachelorette is hated by the end of their season.  Particularly if they do not choose a fan favorite.  I think you nailed it in an earlier post - Rachel's biggest mistake was keeping Peter as long as she did.  Soon as he made it clear he wasn't comfortable with proposing, she should have cut him loose.  Of course, Peter could have left anytime as well. 

ETA:  thinking on it further, I think the Bachelorette receives a more intense level of vitriol than the Bachelor.  And it's pretty easy to guess why. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by ribboninthesky1

[Mooncake76]

26 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I was totally on board that it was always Bryan UNTIL this finale. Her overnight with Bryan she was completely distracted thinking about Peter to the extent that Bryan had to give HER the where are your feelings at cross-examination, and she admitted in a talking head that she wasn't fully giving her attention to Bryan because of thinking about Peter. Then the night before she got engaged to Bryan she was still trying to talk Peter into getting engaged and only backed out that it wasn't going to work when he repeatedly called getting engaged to her a "sacrifice." If she knew she was going to pick Bryan the next day, she wouldn't still be trying to pull a proposal out of Peter. She would be saying to herself that yes, do it once and it won't be to me, so you go ahead and save that proposal. I believe what Rachel was saying last night and in the press that there were more issues with Peter than JUST the proposal but the show only focused on that. And the show will create a bigger conflict to make it seem like that's ALL they talked about. But the facts of the matter is that she DID needle him on that proposal on EVERY date--including getting a MONK to attempt to persuade him on marriage!! To Peter's defense, of course if that's the focus of every date it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that she's not just LETTING love develop. But, back to the original point, if you removed THIS episode, I do think it was a Bryan Love Story. 

This is where I'm at too. It's hard for me to reconcile my feeling that it was obviously going to be Bryan all along to what happened during the "breakup" with Peter. I was wondering why she was pushing so hard if she was going to just dump him the next day. I'm still not sure what to make of it cuz I'm not of the mind that she settled for Bryan. Can she be so cruel as to get someone to propose with the knowledge she would say no? She doesn't strike me as that type of person. I don't understand it, other than she was undecided until the very end. 

[fib]

3 hours ago, Palomar said:

Perhaps, but why would he, being so level-headed, even go on a show like this knowing he couldn't propose after 8 weeks......the travel, fame, adventure, possibility of being the next Bachelor?

Because his issue with Rachel was that he didnt get any emotion or sense of how she was feeling towards him til the breakup day.  He didnt know how she felt, and that made him uneasy.  He will have the opposite problem if he becomes the Bachelor.  He will need to figure which of the women saying she loves him is lying. 

2 hours ago, adhoc said:

Kind of off topic: Since a number of posters in this thread have pointed out how hypocritical it would be of Peter if he agreed to become the next Bachelor (for which he is reported to be in talks) after stating multiple times that one cannot be expected to propose in such a short period of time, I would like to suggest: Blake Killpack for next bachelor.  I mean, we were teased with him in Rachel's season, and poof, he was gone.

On topic: Did anyone notice how Rachel never did confirm that her family had come around, with respect to Bryan as a fiance. Instead, she said it was a matter of them needing to get to know Bryan and that her family trusted her judgment.

He was willing to propose if she was willing to say she loved him. But she didnt love him.  Only an idiot proposes to someone who doesnt love them.  And we saw her not hive him any assurances.  

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Mooncake76 said:

This is where I'm at too. It's hard for me to reconcile my feeling that it was obviously going to be Bryan all along to what happened during the "breakup" with Peter. I was wondering why she was pushing so hard if she was going to just dump him the next day. I'm still not sure what to make of it cuz I'm not of the mind that she settled for Bryan. Can she be so cruel as to get someone to propose with the knowledge she would say no? She doesn't strike me as that type of person. I don't understand it, other than she was undecided until the very end. 

In some of her interviews from last night and today, she's sort of explained this. She said when she went to Peter's room, she knew she was going to say goodbye to him because she knew she was picking Bryan and didn't want to put Peter through the whole FRC thing. However, before she got to that, after being so adamant about not feeling ready to propose, Peter suddenly was saying, "if he had to do it to keep her he would" and the whole thing just messed with her head and started confusing her and making her second guess herself and her decision. The way Rachel has spoken, without giving specifics, about how there were deep rooted issues with Peter and she hated that the show made it seem like she was just obsessed with a ring, I feel like this was a situation of a guy who did some serious emotional mental manipulation on her.

Now before the Peter fans come for me, let me be clear that I'm not saying it was deliberate or calculating or mean-spirited on his part. As others have said, Peter may have his own issues still with commitment and relationships. But the point is whatever went down between them wasn't healthy and Rachel was smart enough to see that and pull away. Of course people get caught up in the edit and the pretty and "well he's hot" so they'll drag her online and insist she should have chosen the man that she repeatedly says reminded her of every ex who made her feel not good enough and exacerbated her insecurities. Love story for the ages that would be. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[JudyObscure]

35 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

On a different common topic here, "living your best life" is the new go-to Millennial phrase nowadays

Interesting.  I wonder if it evolved from Oprah's season that was focused on living your authentic life.  God bless the millennials with all that pressure to live their best lives. It seems like you would always be assessing yourself.  Just the constant talk of "setting goals," seems exhausting to me.  My generation was all, "different strokes for different folks," so that if all you wanted to do was get stoned and watch Captain Kangaroo that was cool, man. Hey, maybe they're all in Colorado now, living their best life!

[thehepburn]

I thought Rachel and Peter both had a lot of issues and both brought baggage into their toxic relationship. I am so glad that she got away from his manipulation and can now concentrate on her true love: that pear shaped diamond ring :-)

Jumping for joy during a hurricane and making grabby hands for the ring before even saying yes was one of the most romantic ending evah!

[bantering]

9 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Interesting.  I wonder if it evolved from Oprah's season that was focused on living your authentic life.  God bless the millennials with all that pressure to live their best lives. It seems like you would always be assessing yourself.  Just the constant talk of "setting goals," seems exhausting to me.  My generation was all, "different strokes for different folks," so that if all you wanted to do was get stoned and watch Captain Kangaroo that was cool, man. Hey, maybe they're all in Colorado now, living their best life!

Honestly, I thought the expression came from Oprah, which is probably why I didn't find it witchy or have much of a reaction to it.   The phrase sounds so familiar it didn't ring as a negative to me.

Edited August 8, 2017 by bantering

[b2H]

4 minutes ago, bantering said:

Honestly, I thought the expression came from Oprah, which is probably why I didn't find it witchy or have much of a reaction to it.   The phrase sounds so familiar it didn't ring as a negative to me.

To me, the phrase has always been a bit pretentious and self-absorbed.  It wasn't the what she said but the how she said.  You are right in that it's not an unfamiliar phrase.

[sistersledge]

When I was 25, a "Bryan" reappeared in my life (someone I had known since 15) and scared me as I was so used to the indecisive "Peters" of the world. He wasn't willing to wait for me to come around (like a year) and when I was ready, he was married. I did eventually find my own, but it took 10 years and I suffered through a lot (of other "Peters") to get there. I absolutely love my husband and kids but it wasn't the easiest path to take! I think Rachel was wise in her decision. 

[jackjill89]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

I was totally on board that it was always Bryan UNTIL this finale. Her overnight with Bryan she was completely distracted thinking about Peter to the extent that Bryan had to give HER the where are your feelings at cross-examination, and she admitted in a talking head that she wasn't fully giving her attention to Bryan because of thinking about Peter. Then the night before she got engaged to Bryan she was still trying to talk Peter into getting engaged and only backed out that it wasn't going to work when he repeatedly called getting engaged to her a "sacrifice." If she knew she was going to pick Bryan the next day, she wouldn't still be trying to pull a proposal out of Peter. She would be saying to herself that yes, do it once and it won't be to me, so you go ahead and save that proposal. I believe what Rachel was saying last night and in the press that there were more issues with Peter than JUST the proposal but the show only focused on that. And the show will create a bigger conflict to make it seem like that's ALL they talked about. But the facts of the matter is that she DID needle him on that proposal on EVERY date--including getting a MONK to attempt to persuade him on marriage!! To Peter's defense, of course if that's the focus of every date it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that she's not just LETTING love develop. But, back to the original point, if you removed THIS episode, I do think it was a Bryan Love Story. It's just a shame that the finale and the live color commentary made it all about the break-up instead.

On a different common topic here, "living your best life" is the new go-to Millennial phrase nowadays, like YOLO was a few years ago. My daughter, who is about to be a senior in college and is just finishing up an AMAZING internship in a big NYC financial institution, in which she's lavished with all kinds of events to entice her to sign on for a full-time job, is constantly gushing how she's living her best life. And anything from having a delicious dessert to seeing a happy puppy acting all waggly will be labeled as Living his/her/your/mine/its Best Life. So it made perfect sense to me that Rachel's reaction to "mediocre life" was I'm living my best life! It was just the hand wave and head flip that added an extra slightly FU layer to it.

"Living your best life" is pure Oprah! I think it's funny it's a Millennial phrase, because she's been saying that for years.

24 minutes ago, bantering said:

Honestly, I thought the expression came from Oprah, which is probably why I didn't find it witchy or have much of a reaction to it.   The phrase sounds so familiar it didn't ring as a negative to me.

YES! I just saw this and had commented on the same thing. This is vintage Oprah. 

[shouldbedancing]

I just watched this. It was really hard to watch Peter and Rachel. I thought she was so frosty with him. To me, it seemed like she really loved him and wanted him to propose... so going through everything with Bryan less than 24 hours later and being so happy left a bad taste in my mouth. I wish she got a better season, I really did. Rachel did come off as desperate in the end just to get "engaged" whatever that means... because they don't even know where they wanna live. Bryan is the perfect TV boyfriend, that's for sure. The most genuine thing Rachel said was NO to being on Bachelor in Paradise. At least she didn't have to stoop that low.

I never saw Peter as angling to be the Bachelor. And if he does, I will take my respect for him back. I agree with Rachel and I don't think she was trying to put him down. "The Process" isn't for him. Because the truth is, you shouldn't be on the show if you're not gonna propose... but at least he was always always upfront about that, even after they got in so deep. I don't think he should be the Bachelor. He should go home and live a normal life.

But PLEASE! Eric would be the perfect Bachelor. I feel like he really has matured.... from love or maybe a lot of Wheaties plus that beard. He looked so good. He has a great, fun personality. He's easy-going and open to everything. He's surprisingly smart. I really think he would be a great lead. They could do their first black leads back to back... and then probably no one of color for the next 20 seasons. But hey, that's life. #TeamEric! Make him the next Bachelor!

[OhIKnow]

5 hours ago, debbie311 said:

Did I hear this right?  Did she actually say "Give it to me" when she saw the ring at the proposal?!

Yep. Super romantic, right? Hmm... 

Also not romantic? The freaking WIND. 

Production, you had a huge church RIGHT THERE. I know that wind didn't just kick up at the last second. Why couldn't you just move the proposal into the building? There had to be room for a multi-camera set-up. No, you don't get those sweeping shots like you did outside, but geez - get 'em after the actual proposal when we don't need to hear everything they're saying!! 

(Not that I cared, I wasn't a big Bryan fan from the get-go, but still..,) 

[HeyThere83]

53 minutes ago, fib said:

Because his issue with Rachel was that he didnt get any emotion or sense of how she was feeling towards him til the breakup day.  He didnt know how she felt, and that made him uneasy.  He will have the opposite problem if he becomes the Bachelor.  He will need to figure which of the women saying she loves him is lying. 

  

It was interesting to watch. It seemed he let his guard down most at the very end, maybe because he didn't believe he really had a chance. Not sure he believed she really wanted him to be THE one until the very end.

[ridethemaverick]

1 hour ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

There's definitely been some dog-whistle racism during Rachel's season, but I can assure you: just about every Bachelor or Bachelorette is hated by the end of their season.  Particularly if they do not choose a fan favorite.  I think you nailed it in an earlier post - Rachel's biggest mistake was keeping Peter as long as she did.  Soon as he made it clear he wasn't comfortable with proposing, she should have cut him loose.  Of course, Peter could have left anytime as well. 

ETA:  thinking on it further, I think the Bachelorette receives a more intense level of vitriol than the Bachelor.  And it's pretty easy to guess why. 

Thanks, and reading your eta, are you thinking it has to do with women having the power? 

[HappyDancex2]

I hope this doesn't come off as naive and I'll try to articulate my question as this is my first season of the Bachlorette.  I'm just going to assume that she didn't sleep with Eric and she did sleep with both Peter and Bryan.  And considering she is going to get engaged to one of them, she should sleep with them...it appeared she had a very strong connection with them etc.   Had this been prior to the season starting she could have slept with any number of guys and it's just a number in the past.   However my question is still the premise of the final 2 or 3 guys looking at each other knowing they just banged their hopeful "fiancee" is just hella weird to me. 

And it has nothing to do with her being a woman...this question stands when it's the guy at the end and the girl who is most likely to be chosen is looking around knowing he banged the others too.  In previous seasons was the fantasy suite not offered to some or did it not imply sex?   Or I guess when it's shown that the lead has at least 2 or 3 strong candidates at the end, is the navigation of this absurd situation left up to the lead person?  Have the final 2 or 3 men or women ever gotten into a major fight about it?  Nick's season was my first season of the Bachelor and I had the same thoughts...it was clear that Vanessa was the frontrunner and it would be odd if he had sex with Raven a few days before he proposed. 

I guess I am having trouble reconciling this whole fairy tale love thing when the final week comes down to potentially sex with multiple suitors in a short period of time, one leading to a breakup and another leading to an ENGAGEMENT for marriage.

I just can't.   So. Awkward????????

[shouldbedancing]

14 minutes ago, HappyDancex2 said:

I hope this doesn't come off as naive and I'll try to articulate my question as this is my first season of the Bachlorette.  I'm just going to assume that she didn't sleep with Eric and she did sleep with both Peter and Bryan.  And considering she is going to get engaged to one of them, she should sleep with them...it appeared she had a very strong connection with them etc.   Had this been prior to the season starting she could have slept with any number of guys and it's just a number in the past.   However my question is still the premise of the final 2 or 3 guys looking at each other knowing they just banged their hopeful "fiancee" is just hella weird to me. 

And it has nothing to do with her being a woman...this question stands when it's the guy at the end and the girl who is most likely to be chosen is looking around knowing he banged the others too.  In previous seasons was the fantasy suite not offered to some or did it not imply sex?   Or I guess when it's shown that the lead has at least 2 or 3 strong candidates at the end, is the navigation of this absurd situation left up to the lead person?  Have the final 2 or 3 men or women ever gotten into a major fight about it?  Nick's season was my first season of the Bachelor and I had the same thoughts...it was clear that Vanessa was the frontrunner and it would be odd if he had sex with Raven a few days before he proposed. 

I guess I am having trouble reconciling this whole fairy tale love thing when the final week comes down to potentially sex with multiple suitors in a short period of time, one leading to a breakup and another leading to an ENGAGEMENT for marriage.

I just can't.   So. Awkward????????

Nah... banging multiple people right before the proposal has always been a thing, haha. Nick was even crying about it in his season when he was on the Bachelorette.

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, ridethemaverick said:

Do all bachelorettes get accused of being entitled, wanting to be worshipped, and having their expectations set too high, or is it just Rachel? Sincere question since this is my first time watching since season 1.

I've watched every season of the Bachelorette, and I definitely feel like more than a few of them ended up being described as "entitled." Jen, Deanna, and Andi particularly come to mind. I think it mostly happens with those Bachelorettes that have stronger, more assertive personalities.  The more easy-going Bachelorettes like Meredith, Jillian, Ashley, and Des seem to have escaped that descriptor.

[nlkm9]

I got so irritated at the "goodbye" scene with peter when Rachel kept placing her face up for more kisses. Enough!!! youre getting engaged in a few minutes. I have watched this show since the very beginning but I will admit after I knew what was going to happen I turned it off--it was SO stupid.

[dirtypop90]

42 minutes ago, HappyDancex2 said:

I hope this doesn't come off as naive and I'll try to articulate my question as this is my first season of the Bachlorette.  I'm just going to assume that she didn't sleep with Eric and she did sleep with both Peter and Bryan.  And considering she is going to get engaged to one of them, she should sleep with them...it appeared she had a very strong connection with them etc.   Had this been prior to the season starting she could have slept with any number of guys and it's just a number in the past.   However my question is still the premise of the final 2 or 3 guys looking at each other knowing they just banged their hopeful "fiancee" is just hella weird to me. 

And it has nothing to do with her being a woman...this question stands when it's the guy at the end and the girl who is most likely to be chosen is looking around knowing he banged the others too.  In previous seasons was the fantasy suite not offered to some or did it not imply sex?   Or I guess when it's shown that the lead has at least 2 or 3 strong candidates at the end, is the navigation of this absurd situation left up to the lead person?  Have the final 2 or 3 men or women ever gotten into a major fight about it?  Nick's season was my first season of the Bachelor and I had the same thoughts...it was clear that Vanessa was the frontrunner and it would be odd if he had sex with Raven a few days before he proposed. 

I guess I am having trouble reconciling this whole fairy tale love thing when the final week comes down to potentially sex with multiple suitors in a short period of time, one leading to a breakup and another leading to an ENGAGEMENT for marriage.

I just can't.   So. Awkward????????

I actually wasn't convinced Rachel slept with Eric or peter.  Just like I didn't think nick slept with raven or Rachel, eve though they tried to make it seem like he slept with raven.

The fantasy dates were all so awkward and lackluster this year. I wouldn't be surprised if when she asked these men questions like "what's your credit score" and "do you have health insurance" their answers killed the mood. Lol 

It is interesting that, while they poorly dealt with race this season, they did not at all deal with class, even though Rachel is a lawyer and daughter of a judge, and I think the uncle is a surgeon.  And Rachel does care about a man's finances if she asked her list of questions in the FS.  Does the lead find out the men's occupations in the beginning or do they have to ask them to find out? 

[C76]

6 hours ago, bk10 said:

I think the show became too focused on race. It brought out the ugly in a lot of people. 

I thought Rachel was wonderful, and wouldn't mind seeing another Black (or other POC) person as the Bachelor(ette). 

That said, IMO Lee was the main reason the show had any uncomfortable exchanges pertaining to race. (That and the producers/interns probably being ill-equipped to handle the situation.) TPTB need to do a better job of vetting their contestants. 

[comosedice]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I guess the kind of guy who aspires to be The Bachelor is the same type who would actually become a model, then get a two year associates degree as a dietician, so he can look down his nose at a man who has done a 4 year bachelor of science degree plus 2 year masters degree to become a Doctor of Chiropractic.  Sorry Peter, but your resume looks comparatively mediocre to me.

Should he have been bowing to Bryan because he has a Masters degree? The image is hilarious and ridiculous.  I believe Peter didn't like Bryan the man and it had nothing to do with his education. If you haven't noticed, many people do not like Bryan and a few of us have PhDs. His 2-year Masters degree in Chiropractic doesn't make him special. Lol.

[saber5055]

Hey, I know plenty of chiropractors (I live by one of the colleges) and they all pretty much think they're special, as do most people with a doctorate (even a Ph.D. "doctor" in physical education always puts "Dr." in front of his name). Heck, most people with Masters think they're superior to those of us with a lowly BA. Any yeah, maybe they are, given they had the time and money to pursue higher education. I'll take a chiro boyfriend any day over the model, who has a limited amount of years in which to work. The chiro will ever lose his profession! Well, let's hope not.

I'm all about Eric being next TB. Crossing fingers.

[dizzyd]

I really hope Peter is not the next bachelor. He never seemed comfortable in front of the camera all season. I don't think I would be either and would probably not act natural because I would always be conscious of the film crew and not always be able to openly display my feelings and emotions and I think Peter is the same. So Rachel is right, that this show is not for him and definitely not as the lead.

However the way she went about it was very unbecoming, with the condescending body language when she said she was doing just great. Like her, I'd have been pissed off when he said she would regret letting him go and would not be happy with her choice and I would have said so long to him right there. But he realized on watching that he was wrong for saying that and apologized and after 3 months since that happened, when she's clearly moved on and happy, she should have just accepted his apology instead of putting him down. It was clear from her body language that she made her choice with Bryan 3-4 episodes ago, good for her, so she had no reason to act holier than thou when she was clearly just stringing Peter and everyone else along after that just for the show. Peter too was trying too hard to win because he's competitive when there was clearly nothing there (they had a great 1st date but that was it) or trying too hard to audition for the next bachelor which he would not be good for. I hope they come up with someone brand new like in the good old days before the recycling began because I don't want to see anyone from this season except perhaps Asian Blake Killpack, who looked very beautiful, but then again, he'd most likely disappoint me too.

I usually start every season liking the lead and end up disliking them, so this is no different. Moving on to the clusterfuck that is BiP, see you all there.

Edited August 8, 2017 by dizzyd

[Kendra143]

Reading Rachel's comments that it was always Bryan and she was going to send Peter home before he "messed with her head" sounds like crap to me. Unless she's trying to save face with Bryan after that sob fest with Peter and trying to get him to agree to propose... And if she intended to turn down his proposal anyway the next day in favor of Bryan- that's just MEAN. He dodged a bullet. I really think people develop Stockholm Syndrome on this show. But I did end up loving Eric. I hope Peter finds the right one. ?

Edited August 8, 2017 by Kendra143
Spelling

[comosedice]

6 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Hey, I know plenty of chiropractors (I live by one of the colleges) and they all pretty much think they're special, as do most people with a doctorate (even a Ph.D. "doctor" in physical education always puts "Dr." in front of his name). Heck, most people with Masters think they're superior to those of us with a lowly BA. Any yeah, maybe they are, given they had the time and money to pursue higher education. I'll take a chiro boyfriend any day over the model, who has a limited amount of years in which to work. The chiro will ever lose his profession! Well, let's hope not.

I'm all about Eric being next TB. Crossing fingers.

Well, in my organization nobody uses "Dr." We all go by our first names although the majority have PhDs. I'll take a gainfully employed, great human being; model or chiro doesn't matter. I make sure I keep myself financially secure.

[mostlylurking]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

She said when she went to Peter's room, she knew she was going to say goodbye to him because she knew she was picking Bryan and didn't want to put Peter through the whole FRC thing.

I just can not believe this is true.  I get it, this is a television show and it's highly produced and there is a TON of editing.  We don't know what handlers where telling them before/after/during.  But you also can't film/edit something if it doesn't happen.  They can not edit Rachel crying her EYELASHES off.  This did not look to me like frustration or anger.  She sincerely looked heartbroken.  And so did he for that matter.  So either they both deserve academy awards or they truly felt miserable and horrible in those moments.  Now at the final rose, yes, she was just plain pissed.  Lol.

Quote

Should he have been bowing to Bryan because he has a Masters degree?

Lmao....this is a funny visual.  In school for my Master's degree as we speak and you bet I am going to show that shit off, ha!  But yeah, I'll still be as messed up as anyone with a lowly BA;)

Edited August 8, 2017 by mostlylurking

[felicity porter]

Yeah I didn't believe her story either on why she went to Peters's room. I think she wanted to see if he would change his mind and he wasn't budging.

I know people keep giving her crap for going with her second choice, but is that really such a bad thing? Isn't that what people do all the time in real life dating? Find the person who likes you, who likes you back, is compatible in key ways, has the same long term goals (marriage, kids) and wants them on the same time table as you? I get that this is the Bachelor Universe so things are obviously different (and Rachel made some concerning comments about rings and engagements), but I'm not sure I object to cutting loose a man who is lukewarm about you. Of course, in real life this would have happened over the course of months/years and here it was like 12 hours, but my point still stands. 

[pdlinda1]

2 hours ago, shouldbedancing said:

I just watched this. It was really hard to watch Peter and Rachel. I thought she was so frosty with him. To me, it seemed like she really loved him and wanted him to propose... so going through everything with Bryan less than 24 hours later and being so happy left a bad taste in my mouth. I wish she got a better season, I really did. Rachel did come off as desperate in the end just to get "engaged" whatever that means... because they don't even know where they wanna live. Bryan is the perfect TV boyfriend, that's for sure. The most genuine thing Rachel said was NO to being on Bachelor in Paradise. At least she didn't have to stoop that low.

I never saw Peter as angling to be the Bachelor. And if he does, I will take my respect for him back. I agree with Rachel and I don't think she was trying to put him down. "The Process" isn't for him. Because the truth is, you shouldn't be on the show if you're not gonna propose... but at least he was always always upfront about that, even after they got in so deep. I don't think he should be the Bachelor. He should go home and live a normal life.

But PLEASE! Eric would be the perfect Bachelor. I feel like he really has matured.... from love or maybe a lot of Wheaties plus that beard. He looked so good. He has a great, fun personality. He's easy-going and open to everything. He's surprisingly smart. I really think he would be a great lead. They could do their first black leads back to back... and then probably no one of color for the next 20 seasons. But hey, that's life. #TeamEric! Make him the next Bachelor!

I second #TeamEric!  Of all of them, he exceeded my expectations for husband material...

[Slakkie]

9 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I just can not believe this is true.  I get it, this is a television show and it's highly produced and there is a TON of editing.  We don't know what handlers where telling them before/after/during.  But you also can't film/edit something if it doesn't happen.  They can not edit Rachel crying her EYELASHES off.  This did not look to me like frustration or anger.  She sincerely looked heartbroken.  And so did he for that matter.  So either they both deserve academy awards or they truly felt miserable and horrible in those moments.  Now at the final rose, yes, she was just plain pissed.  Lol.

Not only that but her meet up with Eric was grace on both sides on the finale.  They were both very complimentary then poor Peter came out and the body language changed.  It was like she had to prove she was happy.  Honestly I am not sure she was in to him as much as she wanted EVERYONE to give her the ring.  I know she said it was not about the ring but based on the proposal it was ABOUT THE RING.

It reminded me of SITC when Charlotte was frustrated with Harry and said "I became a JEW for you Harry, the RING Harry GIVE ME THE RING"  Then the little quip about maybe moving to Los Angeles famewhores cough cough.

[uoflfan]

Obviously, Rachel just wanted somebody to put a ring on it.  

Edited August 8, 2017 by uoflfan

[uoflfan]

15 minutes ago, felicity porter said:

I know people keep giving her crap for going with her second choice, but is that really such a bad thing? Isn't that what people do all the time in real life dating? Find the person who likes you, who likes you back, is compatible in key ways, has the same long term goals (marriage, kids) and wants them on the same time table as you? 

Yes, this is a bad thing (or at least it was for me).   

I married my first husband because my long-time boyfriend (whom I truly loved) wasn't ready for marriage.  I hooked a guy who was and, for the 2 years our marriage lasted, regretted it every day   IF Rachael and Bryan make it to the altar (which I extremely doubt),I predict that marriage will be shorter than my first.

I second those who say that Peter is hot.  Probably not Bachelor material but hot. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by uoflfan

[Diana Berry]

21 hours ago, Alapaki said:

You know what would've been fucking awesome, now that you mention it?  Especially the way the episode began?

If it turned out that Rachel was engaged . . . to Juan Pablo!

That's about the only thing that could've salvaged this season.

I also thought we were being punk 'ed and Peter was the one

[Diana Berry]

8 hours ago, scribe95 said:

Didn't Peter even ask her that and she said she couldn't answer?

Yes thats what I was confused about.  I rewatched it ( yes it was excruciating) , Peter asked her,  am I the right man for you ? She said I can't answer that. So she's indecisive ,too.  I still feel bad for Bryan.  I can just imagine that mama Bryan is not too happy with him being second choice. 

[saber5055]

I do have to say, after seasons upon seasons of the leads fake crying, sobbing and snuffling but with never a tear anywhere, I was impressed with Rachel actually CRYING, her face wet with tears, and tears rolling down her cheeks. I believe that was a TB first, a B-ette really crying, with real tears. So yeah, I have to believe Rachel really wanted Peter to propose, even if she is living her best life now with that pear-shaped diamond. I mean, with Bryan. Como se dice mother in law?

[ribboninthesky1]

2 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

Thanks, and reading your eta, are you thinking it has to do with women having the power? 

Yes, that is some of it.  But I think the criticism towards women in general is a lot more harsh, and viewers tend to be more...forgiving of the male contestants. Until they become the Bachelor, heh. 

[LilJen]

Not really important, but chiropractors DO have a doctoral degree. D.C. (not District of Columbia, Doctor of Chiropractic).

[Fable]

I won’t waste time trying to analyze why who felt what for who or anyone’s motivation for participating in the show since we don’t know most of what really goes on behind the scenes between the lead and her suitors, not to mention editing and manipulation by production.  That said, Rachel made it clear she wouldn’t accept less than proposal, and Peter made it clear he wasn’t ready for that, so they were obviously mismatched in that department. 

I think many of the contestants in this franchise come on hoping to possibly land the next gig.  That’s not to say some of them can’t develop feelings for the lead.  Whether that happened with Peter or not, is anybody’s guess, but honestly I think it is much harder to be a male contestant with a female lead than vice versa.  I’m not talking Peter specifically, but just in general.  All the women have to do is show up and wait to see if there is a proposal waiting for them.  The men have to actually take the time to pick out a ring and prepare to get down on one knee to propose, making rejection just a little bit harder.  I know, I know, that’s what they sign up for, but if someone had actually developed real feelings and wasn’t sure they were going to be the chosen one, I can see how they would be reluctant to propose.