Joe & Kendra: Looking Forward To Side Hugs

[Absolom]

50 minutes ago, DragonFaerie said:

 I'm hoping that Joy, being close in age to Kendra and Lauren, will take a page out of Kendra's book and go with a planned hospital birth and prenatal care after the fiasco that was Giddyup's birth.  

Joy's heading down the path Jill went down.  It's basically illegal for a licensed medical person to attend her at a home birth attempting a VBAC so she's stuck with unlicensed help like Jill and the dula pretending to be a midwife.  She really should head straight for the hospital next time.  

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Joy's heading down the path Jill went down.  It's basically illegal for a licensed medical person to attend her at a home birth attempting a VBAC so she's stuck with unlicensed help like Jill and the dula pretending to be a midwife.  She really should head straight for the hospital next time.  

Unfortunately, I don't think she will unless she is close to Jinger to talk to, or Abbie takes Joy and Jessa under her wing and preaches safety measures now that they each have at least one child that needs a mother to come home to them.

[Temperance]

Joy is still a TLC star. There's a good chance TLC will warn her about giving birth at home if she thinks about giving birth at home. Jill and Anna are the only two Duggar women who seem to really the idea of a home birth and Jill may realise that she needs a hospital. 

[GeeGolly]

The home births are less of a concern to me than the lack of prenatal care. And even with prenatal care would Jill & Joy still have attempted home births knowing that Iz and Gid were breech?

As I stated before, they don't don't seem to put a lot of thought into caring for their gestating blessings. 

[Portia]

On 7/1/2018 at 6:36 PM, PradaKitty said:

because Jim Bob will insist on a big wedding in a big “ theater” ( I don’t really consider a giant auditorium a church)

I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss a place as not-really-a-church because the architecture doesn't suit you. If someone points to a building and says, "That's my place of worship," I'm like, "Cool--that's your house of worship. Got it."  I don't have to like the way it looks, nor do I have to worship there myself if it doesn't suit me.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Portia
punctuation

[MamaMax]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:01 AM, GeeGolly said:

The home births are less of a concern to me than the lack of prenatal care. And even with prenatal care would Jill & Joy still have attempted home births knowing that Iz and Gid were breech?

As I stated before, they don't don't seem to put a lot of thought into caring for their gestating blessings. 

I really believe their objection to hospital birth and "regular" (non fundie) prenatal care, is the fear that those practitioners will offer/encourage birth control. I also suspect that they fear c-sections because it limits the # of kids they can safely birth (which a real OB would tell them!) 

It's the "outside" influence. 

 

And the fact that they fetishize their fertility.

Edited July 30, 2018 by MamaMax

[zoomama]

17 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

I really believe their objection to hospital birth and "regular" (non fundie) prenatal care, is the fear that those practitioners will offer/encourage birth control. I also suspect that they fear c-sections because it limits the # of kids they can safely birth (which a real OB would tell them!) 

It's the "outside" influence. 

 

And the fact that they fetishize their fertility.

i always thought it had to do with lack of insurance...

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, zoomama said:

i always thought it had to do with lack of insurance...

I think its a combination of things.  They don't want some heathen doctor or midwife telling them about prenatal testing for birth defects because that is, of course, akin to 'forcing' them to have an abortion.  Any OB/GYN who simply mentions that it is legal to terminate a pregnancy for any reason here in the US is going straight to hell, in their opinion.  I've had patients tell me that, in previous pregnancies, they had testing that was abnormal and their caregiver tried to browbeat them into a termination and they had to stand up for Jesus and the baby was just fine, doncha know?  Of course, that's not what happened, but their version makes them feel extra holy.  Sometimes, fundies have come to my office and told me not to even mention testing for birth defects or termination; however, they all want US for gender.  I point out that an ultrasound technician is required to look at a whole lot of anatomy and the gender is not really medically pertinent,; so a gender-only scan cannot be done in our clinic and it would be unethical of us to not inform the parents if something seems amiss to give them the opportunity for further testing and possible treatment.  They still want the US and whine and complain that it cannot be done their way,

Anyway, some folks feel that it is an insult to their religious faith to even suggest genetic screening or to point out that abortion is an option if the baby has a serious problem.  They get around it by going to caregivers like Dr Jill who are not only unqualified, but are happy to pretend that science doesn't exist for them.

Edited July 30, 2018 by doodlebug

[Snow Fairy]

I just saw this article

https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2018/07/joseph-duggar-and-kendra-caldwell-are-they-hiding-something-from/amp/

[lucy711]

40 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think its a combination of things.  They don't want some heathen doctor or midwife telling them about prenatal testing for birth defects because that is, of course, akin to 'forcing' them to have an abortion.  Any OB/GYN who simply mentions that it is legal to terminate a pregnancy for any reason here in the US is going straight to hell, in their opinion.  I've had patients tell me that, in previous pregnancies, they had testing that was abnormal and their caregiver tried to browbeat them into a termination and they had to stand up for Jesus and the baby was just fine, doncha know?  Of course, that's not what happened, but their version makes them feel extra holy.  Sometimes, fundies have come to my office and told me not to even mention testing for birth defects or termination; however, they all want US for gender.  I point out that an ultrasound technician is required to look at a whole lot of anatomy and the gender is not really medically pertinent,; so a gender-only scan cannot be done in our clinic and it would be unethical of us to not inform the parents if something seems amiss to give them the opportunity for further testing and possible treatment.  They still want the US and whine and complain that it cannot be done their way,

Anyway, some folks feel that it is an insult to their religious faith to even suggest genetic screening or to point out that abortion is an option if the baby has a serious problem.  They get around it by going to caregivers like Dr Jill who are not only unqualified, but are happy to pretend that science doesn't exist for them.

 

I am Catholic but not super religious. When I was pregnant, there was something found an an ultrasound that "could be a marker for Downs" and the doctor had a discussion about termination with me.  When I did more research I found that this issue on its own was a poor indicator for Down's and most likely meant nothing on its own, and my baby came out normal.  But I admit I was disturbed at how quickly termination came up, and it made me wonder what I would have done if I was younger and/or more gullible and didn't take ten minutes to do some research online.  I was horrified that my provider didn't explain all of this to me but did mention abortion pretty quickly.   So I can only imagine that a Duggar would not even want to have an ultrasound and have even the idea of abortion mentioned.

Edited July 30, 2018 by lucy711

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

I just saw this article

https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2018/07/joseph-duggar-and-kendra-caldwell-are-they-hiding-something-from/amp/

Maybe... and maybe they just value their privacy. What little they get. 

[Quof]

7 hours ago, MamaMax said:

I really believe their objection to hospital birth and "regular" (non fundie) prenatal care, is the fear that those practitioners will offer/encourage birth control.

And the fact that a man might look at their hoo-haa. 

[Zella]

I work with a fundie family that is very anti-doctor. They dislike any expert, regardless of speciality. I honestly think they have an inferiority complex and can't handle someone knowing more than them. It's all about control and being able to maintain their own narrative about how special and superior they are. 

I actually screamed at one of the sons once because he was complaining about how awful doctors were and his example was when he goes to the ER for a cold, it takes forever and they don't help him. I, um, loudly pointed out that that is not why ERs exist. He was speechless. He had no idea because his parents apparently had never taken him anywhere but an ER for every single medical complaint, no matter how minor. 

[MichaelaRae]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I work with a fundie family that is very anti-doctor. They dislike any expert, regardless of speciality. I honestly think they have an inferiority complex and can't handle someone knowing more than them. It's all about control and being able to maintain their own narrative about how special and superior they are. 

I actually screamed at one of the sons once because he was complaining about how awful doctors were and his example was when he goes to the ER for a cold, it takes forever and they don't help him. I, um, loudly pointed out that that is not why ERs exist. He was speechless. He had no idea because his parents apparently had never taken him anywhere but an ER for every single medical complaint, no matter how minor. 

Let me guess...he didn't know what ER stands for and thought it stood for Evangelical Room instead of EMERGENCY room?

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

Let me guess...he didn't know what ER stands for and thought it stood for Evangelical Room instead of EMERGENCY room?

LOL He might as well! When I explained the concept of a walk-in clinic to him, I could tell he had no earthly idea what I was talking about. 

[Farmfam]

17 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think its a combination of things.  They don't want some heathen doctor or midwife telling them about prenatal testing for birth defects because that is, of course, akin to 'forcing' them to have an abortion.  Any OB/GYN who simply mentions that it is legal to terminate a pregnancy for any reason here in the US is going straight to hell, in their opinion.  I've had patients tell me that, in previous pregnancies, they had testing that was abnormal and their caregiver tried to browbeat them into a termination and they had to stand up for Jesus and the baby was just fine, doncha know?  Of course, that's not what happened, but their version makes them feel extra holy.  Sometimes, fundies have come to my office and told me not to even mention testing for birth defects or termination; however, they all want US for gender.  I point out that an ultrasound technician is required to look at a whole lot of anatomy and the gender is not really medically pertinent,; so a gender-only scan cannot be done in our clinic and it would be unethical of us to not inform the parents if something seems amiss to give them the opportunity for further testing and possible treatment.  They still want the US and whine and complain that it cannot be done their way,

Anyway, some folks feel that it is an insult to their religious faith to even suggest genetic screening or to point out that abortion is an option if the baby has a serious problem.  They get around it by going to caregivers like Dr Jill who are not only unqualified, but are happy to pretend that science doesn't exist for them.

 

16 hours ago, lucy711 said:

I am Catholic but not super religious. When I was pregnant, there was something found an an ultrasound that "could be a marker for Downs" and the doctor had a discussion about termination with me.  When I did more research I found that this issue on its own was a poor indicator for Down's and most likely meant nothing on its own, and my baby came out normal.  But I admit I was disturbed at how quickly termination came up, and it made me wonder what I would have done if I was younger and/or more gullible and didn't take ten minutes to do some research online.  I was horrified that my provider didn't explain all of this to me but did mention abortion pretty quickly.   So I can only imagine that a Duggar would not even want to have an ultrasound and have even the idea of abortion mentioned.

I’m open on this board that my daughter was prenatally “diagnosed” with Down Syndrome at 12 weeks. When our doctor saw the markers he said, “this baby is a likely miscarry, and if carried to term, won’t be “normal.” - I responded “God chose this baby for us, so termination isn’t an option” - it was respected and never brought up again. No pressure felt, but I knew legally they had to bring that up. There are equally as many people that would be offended if it wasn’t, as all their options weren’t presented. It’s tough to be a doctor giving bad news, and it’s tough to be the parent receiving it. 

Also, I still believe with everything I have the Duggars and others like them do have “health insurance.” They use the CHM which is allowed under the ACA, it has fabulous pre and post natal care. It doesn’t, however, cover any sterilization procedures. 

[mythoughtis]

8 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

Let me guess...he didn't know what ER stands for and thought it stood for Evangelical Room instead of EMERGENCY room?

They must really be insulated. Every town of a size over 50,000 has several between the ones owned by hospitals. Walgreens, etc. Then there are the billboards, radio and tv ads for them. 

[queenanne]

I would bet on the "afraid someone will force a C-section on them" school of thought, although the others have merit also.

I love how that Joe/Kendra story plays it like Joe beyond a shadow of a doubt chose ALERT, instead of being exiled to it by his loving parents, lol, like that's a thing kids just up and do en masse.  

[Skittl1321]

2 hours ago, Farmfam said:

 

I’m open on this board that my daughter was prenatally “diagnosed” with Down Syndrome at 12 weeks. When our doctor saw the markers he said, “this baby is a likely miscarry, and if carried to term, won’t be “normal.” - I responded “God chose this baby for us, so termination isn’t an option” - it was respected and never brought up again. No pressure felt, but I knew legally they had to bring that up. There are equally as many people that would be offended if it wasn’t, as all their options weren’t presented. It’s tough to be a doctor giving bad news, and it’s tough to be the parent receiving it. 

Also, I still believe with everything I have the Duggars and others like them do have “health insurance.” They use the CHM which is allowed under the ACA, it has fabulous pre and post natal care. It doesn’t, however, cover any sterilization procedures. 

I think it is irresponsible of a doctor to not mention when termination is an option; but I agree that doctors need to make sure patients understand the options to carry to term and get referals to get information to care for a potentially disabled child after they are born.  Do you mind me asking- you say "diagnosed", did your child not have Downs syndrome?  Or is it only because an ultrasound is not diagnostic?

 

In my case, when I found out my child was incompatible with life (they suspected trisomy 13 or 18; but it ended up being an incredibly severe chromosomal deletion) the doctor told me "It is unfortunate you are past the point of time where it is legal to terminate in our state. If you want to terminate the pregnancy, here are two clinics in the US that could do it. I wouldn't judge you if you choose to get on a plane tomorrow, but I'd recommend you get the genetic testing done so you have some answers about exactly what is happening; and we can better determine if the life expectancy is a few hours, a few months, or a few years. If you'd like to do that, in the meantime we can make seperate appointments with the pediatric cardiologist, urologist, neurosurgeon, plastic  surgery team, nephrologist, opthamologist, and gastroentologist who will be part of your son's management team in the NICU and first year of life if he is born alive. In a few weeks, we will talk about convening a panel to talk about life-"

 

That conversation could have gone either way "well, it's too bad your previous OB never mentioned anything was wrong until 25 weeks, what a weird coincidence, can't terminate" or "wow- you have no choice but to fly out of state and terminate this pregnancy, there is absolutely nothing we can do for you." or "oh man, that sucks- this baby is gonna die. Well, see you when you deliver."

[louannems]

13 hours ago, Quof said:

And the fact that a man might look at their hoo-haa. 

Zsuzsananana Anderson has even said that male OB/GYN's are all perverts.  Until she actually needed one to save her twin pregnancy.  (One twin died but he saved the other).

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Personally I prefer male gyn’s. They seem to fix the problems I’ve had without all that emotional crap female practitioners have given me.  It makes a difference when you have several complications and no kids.   I have a wonderful female doctor now though.  

I’m pretty sure Kendra’s doc was a woman but the voice was distorted. Although I guess if her mom’s doc was a man, there’s a good chance she would use the same person.  

[Aunt Catfish]

12 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

Let me guess...he didn't know what ER stands for and thought it stood for Evangelical Room instead of EMERGENCY room?

And let me guess.....these parents ran up enormous charges wasting people's time in the Evangelical Room.  And let me guess....the parents probably had no coverage and the hospital (or the rest of us) got to eat most of the bills for Scooter's cases of the sniffles.

[Farmfam]

2 hours ago, Skittl1321 said:

I think it is irresponsible of a doctor to not mention when termination is an option; but I agree that doctors need to make sure patients understand the options to carry to term and get referals to get information to care for a potentially disabled child after they are born.  Do you mind me asking- you say "diagnosed", did your child not have Downs syndrome?  Or is it only because an ultrasound is not diagnostic?

 

In my case, when I found out my child was incompatible with life (they suspected trisomy 13 or 18; but it ended up being an incredibly severe chromosomal deletion) the doctor told me "It is unfortunate you are past the point of time where it is legal to terminate in our state. If you want to terminate the pregnancy, here are two clinics in the US that could do it. I wouldn't judge you if you choose to get on a plane tomorrow, but I'd recommend you get the genetic testing done so you have some answers about exactly what is happening; and we can better determine if the life expectancy is a few hours, a few months, or a few years. If you'd like to do that, in the meantime we can make seperate appointments with the pediatric cardiologist, urologist, neurosurgeon, plastic  surgery team, nephrologist, opthamologist, and gastroentologist who will be part of your son's management team in the NICU and first year of life if he is born alive. In a few weeks, we will talk about convening a panel to talk about life-"

 

That conversation could have gone either way "well, it's too bad your previous OB never mentioned anything was wrong until 25 weeks, what a weird coincidence, can't terminate" or "wow- you have no choice but to fly out of state and terminate this pregnancy, there is absolutely nothing we can do for you." or "oh man, that sucks- this baby is gonna die. Well, see you when you deliver."

@Skittle1321 I’m sorry that happened to you. It was a huge blessing to me that at my 10 week appointment they couldn’t find our baby’s heartbeat that began all the extra tests to begin with. We knew very early on. We were given all our options and then put into contact with a pediatrician, pediatric cardiologist, and support groups. We also had further ultrasounds at our closest children’s hospital in case she would have been transfered there after delivery. We were so very thankful for a wonderful experience with our doctors prenatally and postnatally. 

You are correct, I put diagnosed in quotation marks because the ultrasound was not diagnostic. I also had a free fetal DNA test done which is about 98% accurate, but, it’s only after delivery that a full diagnosis can be determined based on features of the baby and a blood test. My daughter does, in fact, have it! 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Farmfam

[dorcastrilling]

2 hours ago, Farmfam said:

@Skittle1321 I’m sorry that happened to you. It was a huge blessing to me that at my 10 week appointment they couldn’t find our baby’s heartbeat that began all the extra tests to begin with. We knew very early on. We were given all our options and then put into contact with a pediatrician, pediatric cardiologist, and support groups. We also had further ultrasounds at our closest children’s hospital in case she would have been transfered there after delivery. We were so very thankful for a wonderful experience with our doctors prenatally and postnatally. 

You are correct, I put diagnosed in quotation marks because the ultrasound was not diagnostic. I also had a free fetal DNA test done which is about 98% accurate, but, it’s only after delivery that a full diagnosis can be determined based on features of the baby and a blood test. My daughter does, in fact, have it! 

Now it is insane to me that termination would ever be considered an option for a Downs child. Such beautiful hearts these children I have known have. Thank you for reinforcing my belief that God or the universe carefully chooses the parents for these children. I applaud you.

[Loves2Dance]

18 minutes ago, dorcastrilling said:

Now it is insane to me that termination would ever be considered an option for a Downs child. Such beautiful hearts these children I have known have. Thank you for reinforcing my belief that God or the universe carefully chooses the parents for these children. I applaud you.

Not all parents are created equally. Autism isn't something you can diagnose in utero and this isn't something you'll hear in the mainstream very much, but I have met more than a few parents who wish they would have known because they would have terminated. I've heard it from a Down's mom too, the markers were missed and her kiddo was in adulthood so the testing was not quite as fool proof. She admitted to me that if she could have gone back in time she also would have terminated. While it's sad to hear, I get it---through my own journey as a special needs mom I'll completely admit that some people are not cut out to handle the impact a special needs child can have on their life. Even I, who would have never terminated and truly could not imagine my life without my daughter, has even thought about what life would be like had we stopped at her sister. I feel an enormous amount of guilt afterwards, but sometimes those bad days are really, really bad. So I firmly believe termination should absolutely be discussed regardless of how the parents chose to go---even if they decide to go on with the pregnancy, it's a large pill to digest. 

[mythoughtis]

   Do not feel bad for wondering what life would be like ‘if’.  All parents do it, even those whose children don’t have additional challenges. Parenting is hard- and it doesn’t end when the child turns 18.  Also, I appreciate that you make a choice for yourself but recognize that each family must make their own. 

[DkNNy79]

13 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

Not all parents are created equally. Autism isn't something you can diagnose in utero and this isn't something you'll hear in the mainstream very much, but I have met more than a few parents who wish they would have known because they would have terminated. I've heard it from a Down's mom too, the markers were missed and her kiddo was in adulthood so the testing was not quite as fool proof. She admitted to me that if she could have gone back in time she also would have terminated. While it's sad to hear, I get it---through my own journey as a special needs mom I'll completely admit that some people are not cut out to handle the impact a special needs child can have on their life. Even I, who would have never terminated and truly could not imagine my life without my daughter, has even thought about what life would be like had we stopped at her sister. I feel an enormous amount of guilt afterwards, but sometimes those bad days are really, really bad. So I firmly believe termination should absolutely be discussed regardless of how the parents chose to go---even if they decide to go on with the pregnancy, it's a large pill to digest. 

I agree wholeheartedly.

We got all the genetic testing early on at about 10 weeks.  We had discussed that if something had come up we would need to educate ourselves to make the best decision for our family.  For us it came down to quality of life.  If there was something wrong, what would my baby's quality of life be? 

Luckily there's nothing wrong with my son so far.  He's definitely a handful some days, but I know its probably not 10% of what parents of special needs children have to go through every day.

[bythelake]

41 minutes ago, dorcastrilling said:

Now it is insane to me that termination would ever be considered an option for a Downs child. Such beautiful hearts these children I have known have. Thank you for reinforcing my belief that God or the universe carefully chooses the parents for these children. I applaud you.

OT, but a few weeks ago I was at the Radiology center waiting to be called in for my mammogram. Also in the waiting room was a Downs syndrome young adult with her father. When her name was called, she turned to him and said "I love you, daddy" before following the technician inside. Everyone in that waiting room had tears in their eyes. 

To get back on topic, regarding the question of insurance. I think JB has some sort of coverage.  Maybe he lists the adultlets as his employees and has a group plan. With the ACA, doesn't everyone have to be insured or there is a penalty? I don't know much about it since I am old and have Medicare.

[DkNNy79]

18 minutes ago, bythelake said:

OT, but a few weeks ago I was at the Radiology center waiting to be called in for my mammogram. Also in the waiting room was a Downs syndrome young adult with her father. When her name was called, she turned to him and said "I love you, daddy" before following the technician inside. Everyone in that waiting room had tears in their eyes. 

To get back on topic, regarding the question of insurance. I think JB has some sort of coverage.  Maybe he lists the adultlets as his employees and has a group plan. With the ACA, doesn't everyone have to be insured or there is a penalty? I don't know much about it since I am old and have Medicare.

"For tax year 2017, the penalty is 2.5% of your total household adjusted gross income, or $695 per adult and $347.50 per child, up to a maximum of $2,085."

So depending on the cost of healthcare available to you, for some folks it might be cheaper to just pay the penalty.

[mythoughtis]

I believe JB uses a Christian cost sharing plan. It’s considered qualified even though I think it’s sort of a pyramid scheme.  You pay so much a month to some central office, who then distributes it to people who have medical bills. So if there is money in the kitty, you get helped. Provided the service is considered appropriate by Christian standards. So no tubal ligations, etc. probably only major medical too

i once thought he had coverage under the AR legislators plan. Commenters have said he wasn’t in office long enough to keep it once he left.

Edited July 31, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Wishing Well]

Insurance is no joke.  Last year I developed  pneumonia (or was cursed by Gwyneth Paltrow) after a Coldplay concert and ended up in the ER.  They admitted me upstairs for one overnight to monitor me, and kept me for 10 days.  It was a strain of flu that caused it that was very resistant to antibiotics, and the bills kept piling in.  X-rays, pills, injections, ICU Darth Vader breathing contraptions...I blew past my $3k deductible on day one and at one point, my brother joked that I should go get some MRIs and blood testing just in case since it would be covered.  Funny story, I accidentally got wheeled in for an MRI but before they loaded me into the machine they realized they dragged the wrong patient down!  Total cost was $115,000.00.  Luckily I work for a great company and my out of pocket was $6000.  I also lugged home a giant oxygen tank.  

If the Duggars really don’t have insurance, I can’t even imagine what their out of pockets are and can see why Derick might’ve gone nuts over it.  And it pisses me off.  So many want to pay for insurance but don’t have the means to.  

[SMama]

AR legislators do not get health insurance once out of office. It’s a myth that just won’t go away. I’m sure @Sew Sumi and @Absolom can set me straight if I’m wrong.

Edited July 31, 2018 by SMama

[Absolom]

You're absolutely right.

[Pasha Kitty]

Veering back to the topic of Kendra and Joe, that looked like one very expensive Greek honeymoon.  Their Dinner in the Sky outing..... I'd heard of it and it costs about $157/per person.  https://dinnerinthesky.gr/en/#top

Toss up as to who paid for Greece- TLC or JB/Michele (they're rich, they can certainly afford it).

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, bythelake said:

To get back on topic, regarding the question of insurance. I think JB has some sort of coverage.

Every time I've heard that he's been asked, JB says he has insurance.  He's even said he'd be a fool not to have insurance.  I expect he has gotten insurance either as part of a group or set himself up as a small business and probably has all or almost all his adult offspring as "employees" so they qualify also.

[SMama]

Then Anna, Jill, Jessa, and Joy are dumber than I could ever imagine. And I have a very low opinion of that bunch.

[Loves2Dance]

2 hours ago, Wishing Well said:

Insurance is no joke.  Last year I developed  pneumonia (or was cursed by Gwyneth Paltrow) after a Coldplay concert and ended up in the ER.  They admitted me upstairs for one overnight to monitor me, and kept me for 10 days.  It was a strain of flu that caused it that was very resistant to antibiotics, and the bills kept piling in.  X-rays, pills, injections, ICU Darth Vader breathing contraptions...I blew past my $3k deductible on day one and at one point, my brother joked that I should go get some MRIs and blood testing just in case since it would be covered.  Funny story, I accidentally got wheeled in for an MRI but before they loaded me into the machine they realized they dragged the wrong patient down!  Total cost was $115,000.00.  Luckily I work for a great company and my out of pocket was $6000.  I also lugged home a giant oxygen tank.  

If the Duggars really don’t have insurance, I can’t even imagine what their out of pockets are and can see why Derick might’ve gone nuts over it.  And it pisses me off.  So many want to pay for insurance but don’t have the means to.  

That is scary to read---after a nasty virus we caught on vacation in Georgia I just went back to my PCM and walked away with a pneumonia diagnosis. Fingers crossed this antibiotic works! We also have killer insurance, a hospital stay would cost me $60 but husband also keeps AFLAC so it'd be reimbursed plus some if I were admitted. 

JB has something---I'm not sure what he has, but he was also very picky about the kids teeth so I see him covering health and dental for at least the minors. Though if he has a company and lists the kids as employees he could likely get something as a business owner---it'd cost a lot, but they could likely swing it. Hubs used to work for a small town mobile mechanic business and they kept no more than 4 or 5 employees at any time...one of the biggest perks was that the boss paid the health insurance for every employee (and family if they had one). We didn't need it so we opted out of it, but if he could afford to swing that monthly I have no doubts JB could too. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Loves2Dance

[frenchtoast]

Topic, please. There's been a lot of off topic discussion in the threads lately, taking something as a springboard to jump on a soap box. Keep it to Counting On folks, please.

[KAOS Agent]

Unlike Anna, Jill, Jessa and Joy, Kendra clearly had a non-Duggar providing her with advice during her pregnancy and labor. No Duggars beyond Joe were allowed to be there during her labor. This leads me to believe that Kendra has parents who are smart enough to know what's best for the health of their daughter and aren't willing to put her in danger based on some belief that doctors might offer advice that might conflict with their beliefs. Her mother may also believe that she's capable of advocating for her daughter should something come up that they disapprove of religion-wise. So where Jill was all in on wanting another baby immediately after having an extremely dangerous labor and delivery even after having been told to wait for a while due to the c-section, I think Kendra's mom would have asked the doctor to give Kendra suggestions that would allow for waiting without using contraceptives.

I know doctors can sometimes be over zealous in pushing ideas that they believe are best, but are not what a patient might want. Kendra might not be mature enough to push back, but I suspect her mother is. My best friend once left her ob-gyn in tears due to the doctor's insistence that she was abnormal for not being sexually active and that would soon change so she needed birth control. My friend did not want to ingest a bunch of hormones unnecessarily. This was absolutely her choice to make. Her doctor was truly awful to her about it. She cried in her car for over a half hour after leaving. This is exactly the sort of horror story the Duggars would use to scare their kids into not getting good medical help. However, this is a terrible decision that could cause massive harm and smart people (perhaps like Kendra's parents) are more concerned about health than an uncommon situation like my friend faced. Also, they know that they are capable of simply saying no and telling a doctor to shove it should it come to that.

[doodlebug]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 3:23 PM, dorcastrilling said:

Now it is insane to me that termination would ever be considered an option for a Downs child. Such beautiful hearts these children I have known have. Thank you for reinforcing my belief that God or the universe carefully chooses the parents for these children. I applaud you.

I get what you're saying, but it is important to remember that we've all got our own challenges in this world and we're all on our own journey.  I have had multiple patients choose to give birth to their child after receiving a prenatal diagnosis of Down Syndrome including 2 personal friends of mine.  I've also had a personal friend, someone I consider to be a much better Catholic than I, tell me that, when she got pregnant with her first child at age 41, she would terminate the pregnancy if Down was diagnosed (she was a medical professional with vast experience in dealing with newborns with challenges, so she knew exactly what she would've been getting into).  Her daughter was genetically normal, but I can't judge; her concern was that, as an older parent, her child was probably going to be an only child and would likely outlive both parents and she didn't feel she would be able to make a foolproof plan for care if something would happen to her and her husband.

Kids with Down Syndrome often have serious heart defects requiring surgery, can have abnormalities of the gastrointestinal tract also requiring surgery and are far more prone to cancer, especially childhood leukemia, than other kids.  There is a lot for parents to process here.

As for Kendra, it is quite possible to find practitioners who will forego a discussion of prenatal testing or even contraception if they know up front that the client isn't interested.  I live in a Midwestern city with a large Catholic population and I work as a staff physician for the largest healthcare provider in the area.  It is not affiliated with any religious group, but I am aware of at least 2 OB/GYN's on staff who do not perform tubal ligations for religious reasons.  They both refer patients to other caregivers in their offices for these services, but they choose not to do them and are upfront with their patients as to why they don't.  It's not that tough to find somebody if you really want.  When I was a kid, my mother went to an OB group composed of docs who were Catholics and provided no birth control at all.  Patients who wanted it were referred to the OB group down the hall.  It happens.

I delivered my nephew and my niece.  When my sister was pregnant, she was over 35, and I started talking to her about prenatal diagnosis of Down Syndrome.  She looked at me and said, 'Why are you telling me this, you know I wouldn't abort a baby with Down Syndrome?'  I pointed out that just because she was my sister, there was no excuse for me to give her less care than others.  I had plenty of patients who I knew well enough to know what they would say to an offer of genetic screening, it didn't relieve me of the obligation to at least mention it.

Edited August 1, 2018 by doodlebug

[MichaelaRae]

How long has it been since a Garrett pic on social media? I mean, Joe and Kendra, I'm all about you not selling your life on social media like your siblings/in-laws, but dammit, some of us actually like the babies  and would like to see photos of them once in a while so we can coo!

[galaxychaser]

On 7/10/2018 at 10:22 PM, Loves2Dance said:

That may or may not have been her doctor. When I had my eldest, the hospital had doctor teams and you got whoever was on call. I saw the same OB for my entire pregnancy, but I was delivered by her team doctor because she was off. With my younger, I had the same person the entire time from start to delivery. It really depends on how the hospital is set up. 

That is the nastiest of nastiest I have ever seen....no shoes, in a hospital? I hope they bleached themselves afterwards. 

Did you see Derek’s nasty mold armpit pics? I doubt he even showered that week after the hospital. He’s filthy and nasty.

[Loves2Dance]

9 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

Did you see Derek’s nasty mold armpit pics? I doubt he even showered that week after the hospital. He’s filthy and nasty.

I did, but shoeless in a hospital is way, way worse!

[ginger90]

I watched their honeymoon this morning. Of all the couples given scenes away from the family, these two seem the most sincere. Kendra really seems like such a lovely person , to me. They seemed very natural together.

[ginger90]

Forgot to mention..... until the aerial shot, I didn’t realize how close their house is to the TTH. I hope they work on drainage issues, based on the comment about how water will accumulate in their yard when it rains.

[louannems]

21 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Forgot to mention..... until the aerial shot, I didn’t realize how close their house is to the TTH. I hope they work on drainage issues, based on the comment about how water will accumulate in their yard when it rains.

I would be terrified of a toddler drowning in that drainage ditch.

[ginger90]

[DragonFaerie]

I'm guessing for the we hope for God's blessings in this next year that they expect her to be pregnant again next year.  Geesh.  Give the girl a break.

On August 2, 2018 at 7:28 AM, Loves2Dance said:

I did, but shoeless in a hospital is way, way worse!

I agree.  And then I had to think.  He is shoeless, she looks it, but I can't tell for sure.  So after trekking through the hospital and out to the car through the parking lot, they then get in the car, still shoeless.  You know the car, WHERE THEY EAT ALL THE TIME!  Ick, Blech, Disgusting.  

Then they probably walked into their home, still shoeless and wandered around the house.  I cannot imagine the germs in that place at that point.  How has Izzy survived?  He must have one hell of an immune system.

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

This is her 20th bday yes?

[Sew Sumi]

Yup.