Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Twopper]

38 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Texas prisons are no joke so hopefully that’s where he ends up.

Seagoville is a federal prison, not a Texas state prison.  It is about 350 miles from the Duggar house; Texarkana is about 230 miles away.  
Years ago I was active on these Duggar forums, but I almost never post anymore. I do pop in to read from time to time; I had forgotten this was the day for sentencing. I just wanted to say I am relieved that the sentence is over 10 years. I may even dance a little. 
I may go check on the Dillard thread. I was surprised to read Jill is pregnant.  

[hathorlive]

Quote

Roberts argued that Josh Duggar "went through so much effort," noting that he bypassed the computer program Covenant Eyes, a program that is meant to block pornography and other content.

He said Duggar's sexual interests are "concerning."

The Sun court reporter noted that Duggar was writing or doodling on his notepad the whole time Roberts was speaking.

Writing and doodling, folks.  The judge should have tacked on another 6 months for him being a disrespectful fuck.

[CherryMalotte]

Oh wow, way more than what I thought he was going to get.  Excellent!

Wonder if Anna will be moving to be closer to whichever prison.  JB might be paying for their groceries/providing housing now, because they are staying within the compound, but let's see what is going on a year or two from now.

[Notabug]

Just now, ScorpioSoul said:

I am surprised that a judge can't order him to get help in prison. I thought that was something they could order as part of their sentence,.

Apparently the prisoner has to agree to it, the judge can recommend it, that's all.  For that matter, those sorts of programs have got to be really tough to administer and very tricky for the staff who run them.  The last thing they need is a prisoner who doesn't want to be there being forced and taking a space that someone who is motivated to change could take.

[ScorpioSoul]

Any shots of them leaving court? I was hoping for another storm out from Anna like after the guilty verdict.

[Panopticon]

Nice chart from our friends at Reddit:

[ScorpioSoul]

Just now, Notabug said:

Apparently the prisoner has to agree to it, the judge can recommend it, that's all.  For that matter, those sorts of programs have got to be really tough to administer and very tricky for the staff who run them.  The last thing they need is a prisoner who doesn't want to be there being forced and taking a space that someone who is motivated to change could take.

Interesting, but you do make a good point about letting someone who really does want help get the oppurtunity.

[hathorlive]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The jury (lol) seems to be out on this one. We've been getting answers on both sides.

In the federal system, you MUST serve at least 85% of the sentence.  If you don't cause problems, get a degree, attempt to be useful, get sex offender help or AA help, you can attempt to get out of the other 15%.  

[SusanM]

5 minutes ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Any shots of them leaving court? I was hoping for another storm out from Anna like after the guilty verdict.

I was wondering this as well.  I am assuming Smuggar has left the building?  Right back to jail to pack for his big move.  So any bets Anna had balloons up and a cake baked because she figured he'd be on his way home?

Edited May 25, 2022 by SusanM

[Madtown]

According to The Sun, Josh gave Anna the "I love you" sign as he left court.

He also has to pay $50,100 in fines. Has till the last month of sentence to pay it.

He has 14 days to appeal.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Madtown

[sheshark]

3 minutes ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Any shots of them leaving court? I was hoping for another storm out from Anna like after the guilty verdict.

I saw the Live stream from KNWA.  She and another woman, possibly her sister, walked out quickly together.  Anna had her mask on but her nose kind of up and just looked forward.  Nothing of JB.

[DXD526]

The Sun reports - 'Josh Duggar has to pay $50,100 in fines. That includes $10,000 in a fine, $100 for one special assessment, $5,000 for another, and finally, $35,000 for another special assessment.

It was determined that his net worth allows him to pay that fine.

Duggar has until the month before he's released to pay that amount.'

His net worth allows it? That's surprising. Or will Rim Job be paying? 

[Panopticon]

Damn! Judge Brooks said the true test is how you behave when no one is watching. (Ya know, like in your sisters’ room at night…) I doubt that Josh, Anna, or JB will ever truly understand that, but I love that it was said. 

[lilwhitelion]

I wonder if Mackynzie will not be getting married as young as she would if Josh were home.  Like they would delay her getting married until he is out so he can be there.  Delaying her getting married can only be a good thing for her.

[Jeeves]

According to the Sun, Josh declined to speak at the hearing.

I'm going to cut and paste the Sun's reports on the judge's comments at sentencing, adding bolding to the "gotcha" bit:

Quote

Judge Brooks said that this was among the most serious of cases.

He noted that while the case did not have hands-on offense activity, crimes that involve child sexual abuse are among the most serious.

He said he couldn't get an image from one particular file of child sexual abuse material out of his head, calling it "the sickest of the sickest."

The judge noted that Josh Duggar has "a history of sexual abuse," linking the alleged molestations from when he was a teenager to his interest in minors in the abuse material.

"The sexual interest is the same," Judge Brooks said.

The judge also spoke of the letters written on Josh Duggar's behalf by his mother, wife, and family friend Denise Wilson, noting that they say he's "selfless."

"You have done some very bad things," he said.

But he said that as a whole, Duggar had done some good things in his life as well.

But he added that the true test is what a man does when no one is watching.

Judge Brooks noted a "lack of responsibility," before going on to say Josh Duggar is young, and will be young when he is released from prison.

He added that Duggar has a large family, a wife and seven kids, who are dependent on him financially.

The judge noted Duggar's large extended family, and said his family will be there for him and help him get through the transition.

However, ultimately, Judge Brooks said the court has to consider public safety in this matter.

He said he read the statement from the mother of the child sexual abuse victim in the materials downloaded, calling it "chilling."

"It never goes away," he said, noting that victims live with that their whole lives.

Also, the Sun says:

Quote

The Sun's reporter noted that the court's average sentence was 81 months.

Josh Duggar was sentenced to 151 months.

[Tuxcat]

3 minutes ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Any shots of them leaving court? I was hoping for another storm out from Anna like after the guilty verdict.

I saw some live video over on reddit. They set up all the cameras and then were told to move set up to prepare for lawyers/govt. talks. As that was happening, JB walked out and all the way to the parking lot. Cameras had to switch gears and follow him. He didn't speak and he walked fast. Soon after, other video switched to follow Anna also walking fast to parking lot. She was accompanied by the lady in the sleeveless dress from this morning. And then some other blonde lady went to hug her but the cameras cut away again. Their exit was timed to be at the point of maximum distraction.

[cmr2014]

4 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Apparently the prisoner has to agree to it, the judge can recommend it, that's all.  For that matter, those sorts of programs have got to be really tough to administer and very tricky for the staff who run them.  The last thing they need is a prisoner who doesn't want to be there being forced and taking a space that someone who is motivated to change could take.

My guess is that Josh will NOT sign up for any program like this.

1. He's planning to appeal, and isn't willing to admit that he's a sex offender.

2. His "spiritual advisor" (daddy) will advise against it, because it is a secular program, and he might get some sort of non-Jesus related help.

[wait.what]

My brother was arrested for a terrible crime that involved an “in-law” family member, a minor (17 years old). Of course he adamantly denied the crime and had various “stories”  about what actually happened. 
The absolute shame and horror my parents, my sister, his ex-wife, his children, my children and I endured, it’s hard to describe. 
At the same time, we loved him and had incredible happy memories of him. 
We helped him get an attorney, not because we thought he was innocent, but because we wanted him to be punished appropriately for what he actually did. ( complicated family dynamics). We also set hard rules: he was not allowed to speak to us about the charges, I refused to listen to his wild excuses and explanations. 
He died unexpectedly before his trial began. Hundreds of people who loved him attended his funeral. 
My parents will never, ever be the same. 
I still see his victim in passing occasionally. I want to hug her and tell her that I’m sorry, and I hope she has healed. Instead, I smile, look at her sweet face and hope she knows. 
I still have a framed photograph of him and I dancing at my 21st birthday party. I still love him. I still miss him. 

 

All of this to say, it’s complicated. Prayers and hopes of healing for his victims and for his family. 
 

[Jeeves]

1 minute ago, Panopticon said:

Damn! Judge Brooks said the true test is how you behave when no one is watching. (Ya know, like in your sisters’ room at night…) I doubt that Josh, Anna, or JB will ever truly understand that, but I love that it was said. 

Yes! I was posting when you wrote this, quoting the Sun's reporting. I bolded that very statement. Burn! 🔥

[hathorlive]

Quote

When he is released, Josh Duggar will face 20 years of probation.

He isn't allowed unsupervised visitation with kids.

He also won't be allowed to have a computer and won't be able to view adult pornography.

Per the Sun, for what its worth.  I do think Josh will eventually get busted for using a computer to look at porn.  They love to do surprise hits, where they use forensic triage tools to look at the nooks and crannies of your computer.  I can't see him being disciplined enough to stop.

[sagittarius sue]

2 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

Damn! Judge Brooks said the true test is how you behave when no one is watching. (Ya know, like in your sisters’ room at night…) I doubt that Josh, Anna, or JB will ever truly understand that, but I love that it was said. 

Isn't that the test of a true Christian?  Oh burn!

2 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

My guess is that Josh will NOT sign up for any program like this.

1. He's planning to appeal, and isn't willing to admit that he's a sex offender.

2. His "spiritual advisor" (daddy) will advise against it, because it is a secular program, and he might get some sort of non-Jesus related help.

He'll just do the mandated jail sentence and be a martyr.  Barf

[SusanM]

3 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

He'll just do the mandated jail sentence and be a martyr.  Barf

He'll be the bestest prisoner ever and help bring hardened criminals to Jesus.  Or at least that's the story he will be telling.

[lookeyloo]

1 minute ago, wait.what said:

My brother was arrested for a terrible crime that involved an “in-law” family member, a minor (17 years old). Of course he adamantly denied the crime and had various “stories”  about what actually happened. 
The absolute shame and horror my parents, my sister, his ex-wife, his children, my children and I endured, it’s hard to describe. 
At the same time, we loved him and had incredible happy memories of him. 
We helped him get an attorney, not because we thought he was innocent, but because we wanted him to be punished appropriately for what he actually did. ( complicated family dynamics). We also set hard rules: he was not allowed to speak to us about the charges, I refused to listen to his wild excuses and explanations. 
He died unexpectedly before his trial began. Hundreds of people who loved him attended his funeral. 
My parents will never, ever be the same. 
I still see his victim in passing occasionally. I want to hug her and tell her that I’m sorry, and I hope she has healed. Instead, I smile, look at her sweet face and hope she knows. 
I still have a framed photograph of him and I dancing at my 21st birthday party. I still love him. I still miss him. 

 

All of this to say, it’s complicated. Prayers and hopes of healing for his victims and for his family. 
 

Haven't had your family's experience but I so appreciate your posting it. Snark is one thing and I am usually all in.  Of course Duggar deserves all he got - no argument there - of course some maybe all of his family loves him despite it.  It is complicated for victims sometimes too, but I can't even begin to know what is in the hearts of any of the adjacent Duggars, victims or not.  I probably have more to say but right now can't get the words together in a coherent way.

[MargeGunderson]

Made the New York Times!

[Jeeves]

Just now, SusanM said:

He'll be the bestest prisoner ever and help bring hardened criminals to Jesus.  Or at least that's the story he Jim Bob and Anna will be telling.

Fixed it for ya. 🙂

[ginger90]

I am pleased.

As far as the prison he’ll go to, the judge can recommend, but the BOP decides.

[heckkitty]

6 minutes ago, SusanM said:

He'll be the bestest prisoner ever and help bring hardened criminals to Jesus.  Or at least that's the story he will be telling.

I'm sure there will be some crumbs for him to help clean up. 

[smittykins]

It’s more than I expected, but less than he deserves(he should’ve gotten the full 20, IMHO).

[galaxygirl76]

22 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

Oh wow, way more than what I thought he was going to get.  Excellent!

Wonder if Anna will be moving to be closer to whichever prison.  JB might be paying for their groceries/providing housing now, because they are staying within the compound, but let's see what is going on a year or two from now.

If he ends up in Texas, I believe the Pecan thieves live relatively nearby. 

[MamaMax]

32 minutes ago, cereality said:

No conjugal visits in fed prison and no early parole from fed prison. -A fed court lawyer

EXCELLENT

i keep thinking about the Sopranos episode where they said how they snuck Tony Blundettos sperm out of prison so his wife could get pregnant.

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

It's entirely possible that Ofsmuggar might be fertile, and thus NOT in menopause, in 12.5 years. One of my aunts had one at 47. 

Those are the far outliers though.  Her chances of getting pregnant and carrying a baby to term are going to be down around 5% or less by the time Josh is released. 

[Quilt Fairy]

5 hours ago, Boston said:

No Cheetos - orange fingers and shmutz on your keyboard or phone (I know what I speak of)

Try the Simply Cheetos organic ones (if you can find them).  No orange coloring and they actually taste like cheese.  There is still schmutz, however. 

ETA:  I see I am late to the party recommending white Cheetos.  The number of posters recommending them has made me realize why I have trouble finding them!

Edited May 25, 2022 by Quilt Fairy

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

FF got 151 months!!!

Please sir, may I have some more?

[irisheyes]

I completely forgot today was the day. (I teach 3rd grade, so the last 24 hours have been difficult, to put it mildly.) 

12.5 years is ALOT. I mean, that’s a really long time. He won’t even know his kids, and he’ll barely know Anna when he gets out. I know she’s relying on JB a lot now, but I feel like she’s going to develop more independence simply because she has to. She may not even have a need for Joshy when he gets out. 

[Dianaofthehunt]

I wonder what’s going through Jana’s thoughts…

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Dianaofthehunt said:

I wonder what’s going through Jana’s thoughts…

From the little tidbits let out, it seems Jana and her friend Laura stand firmly behind Josh. At least during and shortly after the trial they did.

[FizzyPuff]

8 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

If he ends up in Texas, I believe the Pecan thieves live relatively nearby. 

Oh I'm sure Josh would just love to be visited by those two 😂

[ginger90]

The prosecution and then the defense’s statement after the sentencing. (It takes a bit for the defense portion to load after the prosecution)

Video:

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/joshua-duggar-sentenced-to-12-years-in-federal-prison-on-child-pornography-charges/amp/

[Zella]

I was very pleased with the sentence! I overshot a bit with my 15 year guess but I just knew there was no way he was getting the same amount of time as people who had plea deals before the judge.

12.5 years sounds like a long time because it is a long time, and when you realize that means Josh is sentenced to serve until approximately Thanksgiving 2034 (I know he has time served that will shave off some but still), you realize it is a really long fucking time. 

[CandyXmasTree]

46 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

My guess is that Josh will NOT sign up for any program like this.

1. He's planning to appeal, and isn't willing to admit that he's a sex offender.

2. His "spiritual advisor" (daddy) will advise against it, because it is a secular program, and he might get some sort of non-Jesus related help.

Of course he won't sign up for any program that works help him because he is being persecuted for worshiping the correct Jesus.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

That's a good, fair sentence that takes into consider that he's already hurt victims in his home and the content of the CP downloaded.  I am ecstatic that it's over 10 years and beyond happy it's over 12.  To put this into perspective, my worse case ever, where the guy had terabytes of "littles" (I'll leave that your imagination), got 13 years, with three of those years coming for a chat transcript where he talked about grooming crackhead parents to get access to their kids.  That was an EXTRAORDINARY sentence for no victims.  So, Josh got a bigger sentence than normal (8ish years) largely due to the prosecutor's hard work.  I take my hat off to them.  Excellent work, AUSAs.  I think the work they did in getting his sister's abuse admitted is the difference in this case.  Without showing he's already contact offended, Josh would be looking at 7 to 8 years.  

I hope someday his sister victims can look at this and know that while they were horribly denied justice, he did get extra time because of their abuse. So in 7 or so years they can sit back and say 'now he's serving because of what he did to me'. I know it doesn't help and nothing will ever make up for the fact that their parents didn't give a rats patootie about what happened to them, but just a small tinge of justice is better than nothing at all. 

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

She will be 34 next month (approximately 46 when he gets out). She could still possibly have a few more children, but would she want to start over with a baby after dealing with teenagers for the past 12 years. Also, if he’s a sex offender, could they be on her if she allows him back into the house with minor children. 

Isn't it about God's will rather than what she wants?

Just trying to comprehend what they've been spouting to the unwashed masses all these years.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, CandyXmasTree said:

Of course he won't sign up for any program that works help him because he is being persecuted for worshiping the correct Jesus.

I have never gotten the impression that Josh believes in anything but himself.  He used his parent's religious beliefs as a means to an end.  His family and Anna may believe that Josh is being persecuted for being the "correct" type of Christian, but he never has.  Josh believes he is entitled to do whatever he wants because he is Josh.  JB and Michelle did nothing to disabuse of this notion.  He was allowed to continue failing up from being on TV to getting a wife to service him to that job at the FRC.  

[Zella]

Not sure I've seen this mentioned yet--apologies if it has been and I missed it--but apparently part of his conditions for release is he is not allowed to possess adult porn. As we were discussing earlier, the defense objected to any reference to it, but the judge made it a condition because he saw it as a gateway for him.

[all fall down]

Here's the order with his conditions

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/158/united-states-v-duggar/

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Not sure I've seen this mentioned yet--apologies if it has been and I missed it--but apparently part of his conditions for release is he is not allowed to possess adult porn. As we were discussing earlier, the defense objected to any reference to it, but the judge made it a condition because he saw it as a gateway for him.

Well, there's his ticket back to prison toot-sweet. He be scrolling his phone hours after he gets out. It'll only take as long as it takes for him to get caught.

[iwantcookies]

Will he be in solitary or have a roommate in federal pen?

[Tikichick]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have never gotten the impression that Josh believes in anything but himself.  He used his parent's religious beliefs as a means to an end.  His family and Anna may believe that Josh is being persecuted for being the "correct" type of Christian, but he never has.  Josh believes he is entitled to do whatever he wants because he is Josh.  JB and Michelle did nothing to disabuse of this notion.  He was allowed to continue failing up from being on TV to getting a wife to service him to that job at the FRC.  

Apple didn't fall far from the tree in that case.   JB's whole schtick is ultimately not about faith or adherence to the teachings of Christ.   It's simply the means by which JB can bend as many of those around him to what he wants and desires.   Luckily it seems his wants and desires are different from Josh's, but are also repugnant in many ways.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

I know 12.5 years doesn’t sound like enough, and in lots of ways it isn’t considering the heinous crimes committed.  It is still a long time, a really fucking long time.  I worked in a prison so I’ve seen what a decade of time can do to a person.  It won’t be pretty.  

For anyone still bummed by the sentence, let me put that time frame into context.

12.5 years ago:

-IPhone 4 had just come out

-The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was just being signed into law

-The horrific Deepwater Horizon oil spilled killed 11 (I think) people and devastated the gulf with 170 million gallons of oil

-The earthquake in Haiti killed 230,000 

-The Chilean miners were rescued after over two months below ground

-WikiLeaks released classified State documents

- Prince William and Kate Middleton got 

And that’s just the major headlines.  When you think about how long ago those events happened, not to mention how much has occurred since then, 12.5 years is no walk in the park. I wish he’d gotten 15, and I think he deserved all 20 years, but it’s going to be an entirely different world when he’s released.  

Edited May 25, 2022 by Ijustwantsomechips

[GeeGolly]

Also, how odd his lawyers wanted Josh to retain his right to watch legal porn. You know, with Josh being the Duggar kind of Christian and all.