Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[mythoughtis]

I think the family likes Anna just fine. However when Anna first became a Duggar, the older girls  could not spend  a lot of time with her. Firstly, they were too busy being buddies, teachers, cooks, tile layers etc. Secondly, this crowd seems to prefer to keep the married people separated from the unmarried females.  Would hate for certain things to be discussed you know. 
 

and now, the older girls and Anna are all busy taking care of their own families to hang out. 

Regarding Anna and divorce/remarriage. Legally she could of course. Practically, not all that many men wanting to marry a woman with 7 kids and then make more. I know some of you think it goes against her religion.  Given the male headship lifestyle..her father could fix that.  He had to give permission for Josh and Anna to marry. He required Josh to agree to Anna overseeing his internet usage. Josh has obviously failed that requirement  multiple times.  Pa Keller should declare Josh in  breach of contract and declare the marriage annulled. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by mythoughtis

[emmawoodhouse]

Jessa and Joy hang out with family all the time. Heck, even Jill and Jessa took the kids and had a recent outing. You never see Anna one on one with any of the older girls. She's always part of a larger group. 

Anna could have Jessa or Joy over for lunch or something, but we never see that. When the girls visit the Big House, they're not going to visit Anna. 

I think they're civil, nothing more.

[Heathen]

8 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Absolutely, and I apologize if my comment suggested otherwise.  I was more commenting on someone who, to me, sounded like he was  bragging about getting child molesters off the hook.  His mother must be so proud.

I think that's promoting his practice more than anything. He couldn't very well write, "I got a pervert off the hook but I'm ashamed of it." 

I've always had the impression the Duggarettes really didn't care for Anna. Maybe it's a sister-in-law thing, maybe it's because she's Ofsmuggar. Who knows. They would never admit to anything other than "we love her like a sister." 

[Tdoc72]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

The voter registration one really bothers me because I'm a poll worker here, so from my training, I know that your registering address should be "where you lay your head at night," and I am pretty sure Josh does not qualify to use that address under that condition. My guess is that address is also on his DL. 

That’s what I think too since that was the one listed on the booking photo. 

[Boston]

4 hours ago, christine falls said:

Miranda (Rights) Duggar. 

Moritorium

[magpye29]

Sheesh—you spend a month or four being consumed by Montecito Madness (an unhealthy obsession with Sussex shenanigans), and Karmageddon drops its wrath on the Duggars! It’s taken me three days just to get caught up on this thread, and I haven’t even glanced at any of the others! I just want to thank all the posters who have done the work of explaining all the charges and legalities. I feel so sorry for the m&ms and for the siblings who are having to relive their trauma (because I have NEVER believed it was “no big deal”). I don’t watch the show, but I don’t see how it can survive this scandal. How can they create future episodes without addressing the elephant in the room, and yet if they do focus on the impact of Josh’s crimes on the family, it becomes more prurient and salacious than the worst episode of Jerry Springer and makes us all worse than gawkers at the scene of a horrific accident. I feel guilty already for reading so much about this, yet I can’t look away!

[mynextmistake]

9 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Just thinking out loud here and pure speculation. We know the charges, if found guilty, would make Josh guilty of CSAI. In the psych world that qualifies him as a sexual offender which of course fits given his own admission. He admitted to "viewing addictions" and of course the whole Ashley Madison thing...  

However, given his past behavior as a teen combined with these new charges, the psych world might classify him as a true pedophile? Certainly I am not qualified to make that diagnosis - again just speculating. If that's the case though,  the research suggests that neurodevelpmental changes result in this type of attraction and thus rehabilitation is extraordinarily low. Treatment is centered upon removing access to images/minors/et cetera.

So could Josh argue in court, that since he was not properly diagnosed as a teen (and again as an adult) that fault lies with the family/providers ? Could he argue that he is blameless given his condition and inadequate preventative treatment?

It's a stretch, but wondering if that's a possible line of reasoning?

And for the record, I absolutely think he should be held criminally responsible assuming he is guilty of receiving and possession. I am just wondering where the lawyers could go.

No, that’s not a valid legal defense to the charges. I supposed he could argue it in mitigation during sentencing if he pleads out or is found guilty, unless you’re limited to statutory mitigators in federal court? 

[Jeanne222]

8 hours ago, coconspirator said:

I also think it’s probable that JB knew what was up even before Josh had to tell him. I suspect if JB  knew then Michelle also knew. The rest of the family was very likely left in the dark until the last minute. I can’t imagine them allowing him around their children on holidays and birthday parties if they knew he was facing arrest for child porn.

Hummm.  Was the time of the raid and the timing of occurrences with Jill and Derick in sync?

I have to wonder if Jill and Derick have been squirming to tell!

5 hours ago, mittsigirl said:

Oh goody! Knowing his laziness, I just bet he shares the address with JB! I hope they tear the damn place apart and everything out there gets checked out. JB is pretty slimy in my eyes, always has been and probably even more so now, don't trust anything about the guy. I bet the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

JB sure was quick to jump on the hire three attorneys to defend Josh!  Lots of money!

Could JB have been watching movies with Josh hence his quick response and open wallet!

I don't think we have seen the whole picture just yet!  I wonder what Michelle knows?

[GeeGolly]

This thread has been moving fast. Has anyone been able to answer if its typical to allow a person suspected of Josh's alleged crimes, to continue to be around dozens of young children for a year and a half? And to live with 6 children under 12? This part boggles my mind. I understand needing to get a strong case against him, but how do they weigh the risks?

Do any of the parents of kids Josh has been around during this time have a case against the Feds for knowingly allowing it?

[NoThyme]

13 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Well, to be fair to TLC, they pay Boob who doles out money as he sees fit. 

That is just horrible. Not only that, the viewing audience was tricked into thinking he had nothing to do with Counting On. I understand why Derrick is upset and he is letting everyone know the truth. I am sure when the deal was made with TLC that no one had the courage to cross dear old dad and demand they get paid directly. However, as the kids have grown up and found their voices I don't think they would agree to those terms again. Bob is all about control and using his family to make money.

Edited May 3, 2021 by NoThyme

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Has anyone been able to answer if its typical to allow a person suspected of Josh's alleged crimes, to continue to be around dozens of young children for a year and a half? And to live with 6 children under 12?

They cant do anything until they charged him with something. Making him move would be saying he's guilty before he was charged.

[GeeGolly]

23 minutes ago, NoThyme said:

That is just horrible. Not only that, the viewing audience was tricked into thinking he was had nothing to do with Counting On. I understand why Derrick is upset and he is letting everyone know the truth. I am sure when the deal was made with TLC that no one had the courage to cross dear old dad and demand they get paid directly. However, as the kids have grown up and found their voices I don't think they would agree to those terms again. Bob is all about control and using his family to make money.

I agree that JB is controlling and a tightwad and exploits his kids, but I don't think the contract thing is all on him.

When the show started the kids were all minors. As with other reality shows, they're paid as a family unit. When it switched to Counting On, that would have been the opportunity for Derick and Ben, as headships, to get their own contracts. They didn't. I get they were young and likely trusted JB and were caught up in the celebrity of it all, but they do have their own parents who could have helped guide them.

As for the other adult Duggars, I'm sure they trust(ed) their dad and let him manage it all.

I'm not saying any of it is right, or that JB's intentions were good. I'm just saying that Ben and Derick were married grown men with kids and bear some responsibility.

[MsJamieDornan]

35 minutes ago, NoThyme said:

That is just horrible. Not only that, the viewing audience was tricked into thinking he was had nothing to do with Counting On.

Notice how fast they let him back on the show.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

They cant do anything until they charged him with something. Making him move would be saying he's guilty before he was charged.

But in normal circumstances many folks, including officers of the court, are obligated to report suspected child abuse.

[MsJamieDornan]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

But in normal circumstances many folks, including officers of the court, are obligated to report suspected child abuse.

Probably why he has a different address.

[GeeGolly]

21 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Probably why he has a different address.

Anna has the same address.

[Chai]

Will the fact that Josh is now in jail on these charges finally give him access to true doctors/psychologists who can actually help him with his problems? (He needed this help so long ago and he never got “real help” because his parents didn’t believe in it)

[hathorlive]

17 minutes ago, Chai said:

Will the fact that Josh is now in jail on these charges finally give him access to true doctors/psychologists who can actually help him with his problems? (He needed this help so long ago and he never got “real help” because his parents didn’t believe in it)

To my knowledge (and it's limited at best) there are only a few federal program for sex offenders.  It would be a matter of him qualifying for the program and there being availability in the program.  

Edited May 3, 2021 by hathorlive

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Chai said:

Will the fact that Josh is now in jail on these charges finally give him access to true doctors/psychologists who can actually help him with his problems? (He needed this help so long ago and he never got “real help” because his parents didn’t believe in it)

I know nothing about Federal prisons. As far as state jails/prisons, the help inmates get is only as good as the programs they have. The programs are vastly different from one state jail/prison to another.

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

This thread has been moving fast. Has anyone been able to answer if its typical to allow a person suspected of Josh's alleged crimes, to continue to be around dozens of young children for a year and a half? And to live with 6 children under 12? This part boggles my mind. I understand needing to get a strong case against him, but how do they weigh the risks?

Do any of the parents of kids Josh has been around during this time have a case against the Feds for knowingly allowing it?

I've been thinking about this as well. I'd like to think that investigators checked to make sure none of the children in Josh's orbit were in those images, so if that was ruled out, and he doesn't have a job that involves being around unrelated children, there might not have been any urgency in that respect. But yeah, how do they weight those risks? What are the numbers on people found to possess that csa material who also abuse their children?

[ginger90]

Sadly, BOP has various prisons where this type of offender can be sent. I say sadly, because it’s a big population. There’s a program in these prisons specific to these inmates.

I’d suggest looking up “SOMP BOP” for some insight.
 

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, Zella said:

The voter registration one really bothers me because I'm a poll worker here, so from my training, I know that your registering address should be "where you lay your head at night," and I am pretty sure Josh does not qualify to use that address under that condition. My guess is that address is also on his DL. 

It's all part of the new (and improved!) facet of their religion -- the Hiding Assets (and Evading Legal Responsibility!) In Every Way Possible Creed.

[GeeGolly]

12 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I've been thinking about this as well. I'd like to think that investigators checked to make sure none of the children in Josh's orbit were in those images, so if that was ruled out, and he doesn't have a job that involves being around unrelated children, there might not have been any urgency in that respect. But yeah, how do they weight those risks? What are the numbers on people found to possess that csa material who also abuse their children?

Part of the charges stated he will need to live with another adult and can't be around children under 12, if released before trial. If he's not safe to be around children now, one would think he wasn't safe to be around 6 days ago, and all the days before, from when they first suspected child abuse.

I can't make this make sense.

[doodlebug]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Part of the charges stated he will need to live with another adult and can't be around children under 12, if released before trial. If he's not safe to be around children now, one would think he wasn't safe to be around 6 days ago, and all the days before, from when they first suspected child abuse.

I can't make this make sense.

At some point, a judgment call was probably made.  If there wasn't any evidence Josh was harming any kids in his orbit, then the investigators would feel that developing a federal case that would put the offender away for years was the better option than coming in and taking the kids.  Also, as others have said; it wouldn't hold up in court anyway and the feds would've tipped their hand unnecessarily.

When someone reports abuse of children to the authorities, the child is not immediately removed from the home most of the time.  Usually, a social worker and law enforcement interview the parents, and the child, if he/she is old enough; but, unless there is blatant evidence of abuse (broken bones, bruises, etc), the child is usually left in the home as the investigation continues and the decision as to whether there is enough to file charges is made.  Once charges are filed, the kids can be taken or the arrestee can be kept from seeing them.

It's not perfect, but innocent until proven guilty is a real thing.

Edited May 3, 2021 by doodlebug

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

At some point, a judgment call was probably made.  If there wasn't any evidence Josh was harming any kids in his orbit, then the investigators would feel that developing a federal case that would put the offender away for years was the better option than coming in and taking the kids.  Also, as others have said; it wouldn't hold up in court anyway and the feds would've tipped their hand unnecessarily.

When someone reports abuse of children to the authorities, the child is not immediately removed from the home most of the time.  Usually, a social worker and law enforcement interview the parents, and the child, if he/she is old enough; but, unless there is blatant evidence of abuse (broken bones, bruises, etc), the child is usually left in the home as the investigation continues and the decision as to whether there is enough to file charges is made.

It's not perfect, but innocent until proven guilty is a real thing.

Weighing the risks make sense, especially if Josh leaned toward watching it and not doing it.

As far as DCF though, they can pull a kid on very little evidence. They don't have to prove guilt prior to pulling children, although they have to prove guilt to keep the kids out of the home long term or permanently. They're allowed to operate on, better safe than sorry. 

[lascuba]

10 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Part of the charges stated he will need to live with another adult and can't be around children under 12, if released before trial. If he's not safe to be around children now, one would think he wasn't safe to be around 6 days ago, and all the days before, from when they first suspected child abuse.

I can't make this make sense.

That's likely an automatic condition for this type of crime rather than specific to him. Or they're treating this as any other crime in the sense that they can't do anything until they charge. Though from social workers I know, the state will remove children and set conditions in cases where the DA won't prosecute (though I've never heard about cp cases sepcifically), but I don't know the nuances of that kind of thing.

I guess these investigators didn't want to tip their hand and since there was no immediate evidence that Josh was harming children, there was no urgency to get him away from them. Or the Duggars really did know this was coming because they was a concurrent investigation on whether the children were abused by Josh.

None of this is to try to justify anything--I'm as confused as you are.

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Weighing the risks make sense, especially if Josh leaned toward watching it and not doing it.

As far as DCF though, they can pull a kid on very little evidence. They don't have to prove guilt prior to pulling children, although they have to prove guilt to keep the kids out of the home long term or permanently. They're allowed to operate on, better safe than sorry. 

Oh, I agree, DCFS will remove children temporarily, but, at least in my experience as a mandated reporter, they usually don't remove them immediately unless they feel there is imminent danger.  They have a low threshold, but many cases don't meet it, at least initially.  I wouldn't be surprised if DCFS has been involved since the raid and interviewed Anna and the older kids and didn't find any evidence to support imminent risk to the kids.  

[Crochetlady]

I wonder what Anna's kids have been told. Especially the older couple who would understand more.  I  doubt they know anything about what Josh was doing (at least I hope so) and are probably confused as to why he's gone. I also wonder if Anna will be allowed to stay in the warehouse with the kids or will she and the kids have to move into the TTH. 

[Tuxcat]

Maybe a home safety evaluation was conducted back in 2019 and we just don't know it. . Of course with such a large family and friend network it would be difficult, but we don't know if they weren't being surveilled and interviewed in between then and now.

On WOACB yesterday she said Josh is telling people that a "shady ex convict ex co-worker" at the car lot is responsible and that Anna is right by Josh's side. Could be rumor but I could absolutely see him saying that.

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Maybe a home safety evaluation was conducted back in 2019 and we just don't know it. . Of course with such a large family and friend network it would be difficult, but we don't know if they weren't being surveilled and interviewed in between then and now.

On WOACB yesterday she said Josh is telling people that a "shady ex convict ex co-worker" at the car lot is responsible and that Anna is right by Josh's side. Could be rumor but I could absolutely see him saying that.

I seem to recall there being reports of a DCFS investigation a couple years back which we thought centered on JB and Mechelle and the TTH.  They denied it all, of course, although I have no problem with people keeping things like that private.  The press doesn't get to know everything, at least as it involves kids.

I wonder if we were on the wrong trail and DCFS was looking at the warehouse and the M kids.

[NoThyme]

12 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

 

I wonder if we were on the wrong trail and DCFS was looking at the warehouse and the M kids.

Do they really live in a warehouse on the property?

[Future Cat Lady]

44 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Maybe a home safety evaluation was conducted back in 2019 and we just don't know it. . Of course with such a large family and friend network it would be difficult, but we don't know if they weren't being surveilled and interviewed in between then and now.

On WOACB yesterday she said Josh is telling people that a "shady ex convict ex co-worker" at the car lot is responsible and that Anna is right by Josh's side. Could be rumor but I could absolutely see him saying that.

Someone else was working at that car lot? Doing what?  

[humbleopinion]

Manchester

Marianna

McDowell

McKean

Memphis

Mendota

Miami

Milan

Morgan(town)

Federal Prison names to pick the baby’s name

[MaryAnneSpier]

Is it possible they were initially raided for financial stuff and the Feds found the child stuff along the way incidentally and that's why it took so long to bring him in? 

Is it possible that Josh's charges are both for CP and finanical fraud? 

[doodlebug]

20 minutes ago, NoThyme said:

Do they really live in a warehouse on the property?

Yes, they do.  They live in a large building with no windows that JB used to store all kinds of junk in.  It has been partitioned into rooms, it seems. Still, NO windows.

If you go back in this thread to around Christmastime, there are photos Anna posted of the living area decorated for the holiday.  

Edited May 3, 2021 by doodlebug

[Future Cat Lady]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

Yes, they do.  They live in a large building with no windows that JB used to store all kinds of junk in.  It has been partitioned into rooms, it seems. Still, NO windows.

Is that legal? Maybe that’s why they have a different address.

[Lady Whistleup]

9 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Jessa and Joy hang out with family all the time. Heck, even Jill and Jessa took the kids and had a recent outing. You never see Anna one on one with any of the older girls. She's always part of a larger group. 

Anna could have Jessa or Joy over for lunch or something, but we never see that. When the girls visit the Big House, they're not going to visit Anna. 

I think they're civil, nothing more.

I think Anna is such a stickler for the rules that she ends up turning off the Duggar girls even though they might be just as fundie on the outside. 

[Tabbygirl521]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Yes, they do.  They live in a large building with no windows that JB used to store all kinds of junk in.  It has been partitioned into rooms, it seems. Still, NO windows.

If you go back in this thread to around Christmastime, there are photos Anna posted of the living area decorated for the holiday.  

Golly, Josh really IS a great provider.

This is horrible. 

[doodlebug]

17 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Someone else was working at that car lot? Doing what?  

Who knows?  

14 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Is it possible they were initially raided for financial stuff and the Feds found the child stuff along the way incidentally and that's why it took so long to bring him in? 

Is it possible that Josh's charges are both for CP and finanical fraud? 

From what our other posters who have worked with the feds have told us, the search warrant has to specifically indicate what they are looking for.  Also, the 16 months or so that it took for Josh to be arrested is not unusual in this kind of case.

The experts suspect that the feds found Josh through tracing others who shared files with him.

[Tikichick]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:39 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

JB and M are totally awful, ridiculous people but I'm hesitant blaming this on them. I think Josh is just a bad seed. 

Their blame lies in their response to the bad seedling emerging while he was still under their care and custody.   Different response and treatment may have mitigated his ongoing behaviors, or at least made certain the proper authorities had his information.   The fact that a very different response, and treatment with support instead of blame might have made many things a whole lot easier for their daughters.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Part of the charges stated he will need to live with another adult and can't be around children under 12, if released before trial. If he's not safe to be around children now, one would think he wasn't safe to be around 6 days ago, and all the days before, from when they first suspected child abuse.

I can't make this make sense.

Here’s the way I look at it. First I agree with whomever said that not being allowed around children is a standard restriction for this kind of charge. They always have to make difficult decisions about this kind of thing. If they suspected he was actively abusing a child in his orbit that would have yielded a different response. But if they acted to remove him from the children, or visa versa, before they were ready to charge him I think it would have gone something like this.....

We want him removed because we are investigating him for CP.  Ok, do you have enough to charge him. Not at this time. Do you have evidence that any of his kids have been sexually abused? No. Well then charge him or go away. 
 

And charging him before it was a lock would be of higher risk to the kids because he could get off and they would have no way to keep them safe.  Getting away with it could embolden him to offend more ‘in person’ with those kids around him. 
 

Im sure they hated not locking his sick ass up the second they found the stuff but you can’t always do that.  

 

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Is that legal? Maybe that’s why they have a different address.

Probably not, most localities require that there be multiple means of egress especially from bedrooms.  It probably isn't permitted for residential use.  I believe this is the same place where Jessa's husband, Ben, lived before they were married.  However, there is a big difference between a single 17 year old guy living in unsafe housing and 6, soon to be 7, little kids living that way.

[SMama]

10 hours ago, hathorlive said:

The rule is to get every electronic device the suspect has access too.  That doesn't stop at work.  And I'm pretty sure they don't know that Josh is supposed to be in jesus jail for the internet. 

Does that mean they took Ana’s phone and other electronic devices? What about other computers in the home? The kids homeschool and some of it is computer based. They just wipe the house of every electronic device? 

[IndianPaintbrush]

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

On WOACB yesterday she said Josh is telling people that a "shady ex convict ex co-worker" at the car lot is responsible and that Anna is right by Josh's side. Could be rumor but I could absolutely see him saying that.

I saw that. Even if this shady ex-con exists (hard to imagine anyone shadier than Josh), the feds have a very high bar and I doubt they would have charged Josh without evidence pointing directly at him.

Anna's a fool, but I guess cultists gotta cult.

[Jeeves]

21 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Is that legal? Maybe that’s why they have a different address.

 

16 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Probably not, most localities require that there be multiple means of egress especially from bedrooms.  It probably isn't permitted for residential use.  I believe this is the same place where Jessa's husband, Ben, lived before they were married.  However, there is a big difference between a single 17 year old guy living in unsafe housing and 6, soon to be 7, little kids living that way.

Yep. Here's a quote from this online article about converting a home space into a bedroom:

Quote

The International Residential Code (IRC), which is updated every three years, catalogues the requirements for a bedroom. It covers such things as square footage, ceiling height, electrical outlets, lighting and ventilation, closets, and emergency exits. The code is a model meant to be adopted by local governments (and about 90 percent of communities in the United States have done so) but some municipalities amend it, so the rules may vary from state to state.

The article I linked and quoted goes into detail about the size, ventilation, and safety egress requirements. Short version: each bedroom needs either a door directly opening to the outdoors, or an appropriately sized window which can easily be used to get from the bedroom to the outdoors. 

I'm not sure what building code applies to the TTH property - it would be the county's code if the property is in an unincorporated part of the county, or the law adopted by the municipality if it's located inside boundaries of a town/city. But since those are local laws, JB probably doesn't worry about having any code enforcement officers bothering him. I'm sure he's pretty much immune from being taken to task by the county/town for any law violations, since he's a local big shot. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Jeeves

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, 3girlsforus said:

Im sure they hated not locking his sick ass up the second they found the stuff but you can’t always do that.  

 

Many times they don't because they are not only further investigating the immediate target in their sites, but attempting to trace back the connections to others participating.   Of course the hope always is to trace back to the originating source to stop any possible ongoing or future abuse, and hold responsible for anything from past history that can be identified as well.   Even cases that are handled locally at state levels wind up with not only federal but sometimes international ties depending on the threads uncovered and traced.

In this case it's likely they weren't taking this long solely with an eye to investigate Josh, but using his connections to others, which led to others, etc. and they may for whatever reason not have wanted to trigger anything to alert certain targets somewhere in the chain, so they simply let Josh's case chill on ice until the time was right in the overall investigation where any information or discovery in Josh's case wouldn't give others involved the ability to cover their tracks.      

[Oldernowiser]

Anna’s very, very good at denial. Besides, “Josh is being framed” is a much better fundraising story than, “Josh has unusual hobbies.” 

I just read this morning that a huge CP ring has just been busted in Germany that had 400,000 customers around the world. I wonder if there’s a connection…probably not, but I’d sleep better if I could think there was only one group of these sick individuals.

All of those little kids living in that warehouse with no windows scares the crap out of me. If that place caught fire…

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Oldernowiser

[Gigglepuff]

Given his history, none of this is really that surprising. I think many people suspected crimes involving children were the cause of Josh's arrest before the charges were announced. Besides, doesn't it seem that the hardcore "family values" types are the worst?

There's always one of them arrested for something, be it child porn, underage hookers, getting busted at illegal massage parlors or with a male sexual partner after years of being publicly homophobic.  

The more one screams about family values, the more I raise my eyebrows. Josh Duggar being a prime example. 

[NoThyme]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yes, they do.  They live in a large building with no windows that JB used to store all kinds of junk in.  It has been partitioned into rooms, it seems. Still, NO windows.

If you go back in this thread to around Christmastime, there are photos Anna posted of the living area decorated for the holiday.  

Child protective services should step in an remove these children from these illegal living conditions. The family (JB&M) have plenty of money to house them correctly.  I wonder if Child services knows this. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by NoThyme

[Jeeves]

I'm among those still chuckling at the idea of a sleazy ex-con being hired to work at the JB Josh car lot and given enough access to the office computer to download images of child sexual abuse.  I suppose they could claim it was a matter of some kind of "prison ministry" to give an ex-con a chance, and I could also see JB wanting to hire someone on the real cheap. But did that "car lot" really have enough business or inventory to need any help other than what Josh and his bros could handle? On the whole I discount that whole rumor; I mean if Josh has supposedly been "telling people" this tale of a sleazy ex-con, how? He's in jail, not driving around schmoozing, and I doubt he has his mobile phone all cozy with him in his cell.