Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Juries are usually pulled from voter roles in that district/region.  Most states have an Eastern and Western district where cases are heard.  I'm sure states like Texas have many more districts.  But these cases are heard in larger cities. I'm actually not sure if you go to a specific district based on county or not.   I realize that most of NWA isn't that conservative, but the Duggar's are doing the will of god and everyone supports them, right?

Okay that makes sense. I noticed yesterday while poking around the Western District's website that they have multiple courthouses. If I lived in Ft. Smith or Hot Springs and got summoned for jury duty in Fayetteville, I'd be so pissed! 

I'd say if the jurors are being pulled from more rural parts of Washington County, they will be more conservative. If they're being pulled from Fayetteville, not so much. In fact, my general thought would be Fayetteville people would be the most hostile to the Duggars, just as a collective group. If the jury duty expands to neighboring cities/counties, I'd think he'd have more conservative jurors from Rogers than he would Springdale. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Zella

[iwantcookies]

34 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I was thinking the same. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh offs himself once reality sets in. I don't wish it on him, but he doesn't have the strength or wits to survive prison. 

That thought crossed my mind as well 

[Tabbygirl521]

Can a person be charged with distribution for, say, swapping photos with a perv buddy (vs. selling the material)?

I keep thinking that since men apparently don’t have the strength or will to be upright citizens unless a woman is making it happen...maybe the women are the ones who should be in charge? 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Tabbygirl521

[CrazyInAlabama]

I was on a grand jury for a while, and possessing CP is a crime.   Additional ones are sales/distribution (not even for money, but trading back and forth), and production is another crime.    The way they caught many of the CP producers was that they 'starred' in their own productions.     I've read that CP was just about stamped out before the internet, because they had to use the mail, and postal inspectors caught them.    Now with the internet, it's everywhere, if someone wants to download, and view it. 

If Josh gets convicted, he'll have plenty of other criminals in for the same crime.  Like the Subway spokesman from a few years ago. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[WinnieWinkle]

2 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

I don't think the Duggars knew this was coming, and I think this came a big shock to all of them.

It sounds like they may have expected something to happen but I wonder if they thought it was related to dubious financial dealings.  Josh may have been  one of those special idiots who figured if he deleted something from his computer then all trace was gone so wasn't thinking he'd get caught out in terms of CP.

Edited May 1, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Pingaponga]

1 minute ago, WinnieWinkle said:

It sounds like they may have expected something to happen but I wonder if they thought it was related to dubious financial dealings. 

That's what I think. JB buying and selling stuff from himself to a son/a daughter-in-law/back to a son...that's fishy as hell.

 

[WinnieWinkle]

1 minute ago, Pingaponga said:

That's what I think. JB buying and selling stuff from himself to a son/a daughter-in-law/back to a son...that's fishy as hell.

Biggest red flag being getting a woman involved in "business" - even at arms length.  That's just not the way the Duggar's roll!

[iwantcookies]

I’m surprised Josh didn’t go on the run to a country that has no extradition 

 

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Scroll down to see some actual Gothard materials regarding abuse. Prepare to be enraged. 
 

https://m.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog/posts/pcb.157539799705930/?photo_id=157537746372802&mds=%2Fphotos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dpcb.157539799705930%26photo%3D157537746372802%26profileid%3D1664983675%26source%3D49%26refid%3D17%26ref%3Dm_notif%26notif_t%3Dfeedback_reaction_generic%26_ft_%3Dmf_story_key.157539799705930%3Atop_level_post_id.157539799705930%3Atl_objid.157539799705930%3Acontent_owner_id_new.100063497325684%3Athrowback_story_fbid.157539799705930%3Apage_id.100063497325684%3Aphoto_attachments_list.[157537746372802%2C157537769706133%2C157537809706129]%3Astory_location.4%3Astory_attachment_style.album%3Atds_flgs.3%3Aott.AX_bQA4KcPuiK0V6%3Athid.100063497325684%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1622530799%3A-7630230841747789085%26__tn__%3DEH-R%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3D&mdp=1&mdf=1

I saw all of that last night. It’s incredibly disturbing.

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

That kind of blaming would be in line with the Gothard/ATI/IBLP doctrines that Jessa was taught by her parents. Someone around here (sorry, I forgot who) posted a link to this Facebook page of a young woman raised in that cult.

The page presents eye-opening information about those doctrines: https://www.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog. I should probably warn readers that they may be upset/infuriated/disgusted by what they learn there. 

ETA: I think credit should go to @Tabbygirl521 for the link to this Facebook page and the information it provides.

In case the links don’t work.

[Guest]

There are multiple mod notes, including a big red one on every page, specifying not to

1) wish for Josh to be sexually assaulted

2) not to speculate on any victims other than those already named

I’m locking the thread for a bit since so many of you are disregarding those two requests.

[Me from ME]

Quote

he didn't do it, someone else accessed the computer and the prosecution has failed to put him behind the computer.

Computers and phones have cameras that face the user which can be hacked. (I have mine covered for that very reason. I like my privacy and like to choose who I share selfies with.) If the Feds became aware that Josh was viewing CP I am fairly certain they could have gained access to the cameras and gotten proof positive (along with time stamps) that he was the one who was downloading or viewing. Of course, Josh could have done as I did but it would have been obvious in his case that he was hiding something.

[Dr.OO7]

19 hours ago, Soaper410 said:

Feds don't play

No, they don't. Remember how Elizabeth Smart finally got justice for her nightmarish ordeal when the feds stepped in and stopped letting that disgusting creep who kidnapped her game the system?

19 hours ago, hathorlive said:

We always say the big red flags are band directors, sport coaches, and youth ministers.  That's a stereotype but there's some validity in it.  Any person in a field that works closely with kids and where there is a shared mentorship/friendship is common.  Perps get access to your kids by gaining your trust

I've noticed that trend too. Nearly every time there's one of these high profile cases, the guy usually has one of those occupations--like that sick SOB Jerry Sandusky--even if it's not his primary job.

[Chai]

When I started watching the Duggar’s I thought they were a nice family and spoke about their great faith in God and Jesus. It’s only after you watch them for a while you realize that there are several red flags and and what’s starts to look odd at first turns horrifying. That’s what happened to me. So they had all these kids6/7 at the time she had a mental breakdown doing laundry at 2 am. So the solution is to have 12 more kids? Then you don’t believe in drinking alcohol but taking all kinds of pills is fine? Not having enough money to feed the kids you have would make me stop having so many and focus on making more money to feed them. There was an article about Jill grabbing food and eating it in the bathroom to make sure no one took it away from her. Attached to that article was another one who was married to Abby (forget his name) and she asked him to please stop his disgusting habit of licking his plate literally after he ate. He was genuinely surprised because other family members do that. It’s indicative of not having enough food, apparently. Then finding out Josh was inappropriately touching his sisters and a babysitter which led me to write a letter to discovery communications to please get these people off tv. Then I heard about how the parents handled the incest matter(lack of handling it ) and here we are today he is charged with having child pornography. Stephen King territory.

[JoanArc]

 I can’t post links, but read it has that AMA with someone who grew up with Josh. There was also another AMA with someone who worked with him at FRC. 

* Josh knew a lot about anonymous Internet browsing even as a team. 

* Josh verbalize disillusionment with the lifestyle even as a teenager. 

* Josh mentioned that Jim Bob had a lot of anger stuff against him that he did not have with the other kids. 

* The woman who worked with him at FRC was very young(20s), and Josh wanted her to travel around the country with him to events. The typical assistant gig . You know, putting the ass in assistant.  She was quitting anyway and declined. 

*  Josh was an idiot and do nothing about policy and contributed nothing to FRC other than his name. He claimed to be able to bring in big-name donors, but nothing ever materialized. He was late to every meeting!

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by JoanArc

[Gemma Violet]

11 minutes ago, Chai said:

Attached to that article was another one who was married to Abby (forget his name) and she asked him to please stop his disgusting habit of licking his plate literally after he ate. 

That wasn't Abby's husband (John David).  IIRC, it was Joe, who is married to Kendra.  But I understand your point.  They were apparently limited on the food, having to compete with 18 other kids.

[Tabbygirl521]

18 minutes ago, Chai said:

When I started watching the Duggar’s I thought they were a nice family and spoke about their great faith in God and Jesus. It’s only after you watch them for a while you realize that there are several red flags and and what’s starts to look odd at first turns horrifying. That’s what happened to me. So they had all these kids6/7 at the time she had a mental breakdown doing laundry at 2 am. So the solution is to have 12 more kids? Then you don’t believe in drinking alcohol but taking all kinds of pills is fine? Not having enough money to feed the kids you have would make me stop having so many and focus on making more money to feed them. There was an article about Jill grabbing food and eating it in the bathroom to make sure no one took it away from her. Attached to that article was another one who was married to Abby (forget his name) and she asked him to please stop his disgusting habit of licking his plate literally after he ate. He was genuinely surprised because other family members do that. It’s indicative of not having enough food, apparently. Then finding out Josh was inappropriately touching his sisters and a babysitter which led me to write a letter to discovery communications to please get these people off tv. Then I heard about how the parents handled the incest matter(lack of handling it ) and here we are today he is charged with having child pornography. Stephen King territory.

I’d love to know how they’d feel about all their life decisions if they didn’t have the show. They’d probably be living in an RV like the Rodriguezes. 

[Chai]

I was wondering if Jim bob and Michelle can be charged with being so negligent in giving any kind of basic care/moral compass to any of their 19 children that they could be sued for letting these people loose on society? From not having the necessary funds to raise all those kids and to continue to have them, they would’ve been homeless until TLC came along. Who else instead of buying a house insists the kids can build one? Lack of schooling, that in of itself gets me. To negligent in getting professional help for the daughters who were molested and now this with Josh. It is criminal!

[Rabbittron]

If Anna is deep in the Kool Aid like we think she is and I  do know a lot of fundies she's blaming herself for all that's happened. 

[Churchhoney]

51 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 

*  Josh was an idiot and do nothing about policy and contributed nothing to FRC other than his name. He claimed to be able to bring in big-name donors, but nothing ever materialized. He was late to every meeting!

 

But ...but ...but....that's Duggar time! 

And he was the male boss (redundant, of course) of that assistant. It was her duty, ordered directly by God, to go with him everywhere and do everything he asked. He was the leader of his family, after all! 

Just about every single aspect of Duggar life and belief damages Duggarlings' ability to operate competently anywhere in the rest of the world and even to manage themselves.

Some, like Josh, are more of a mess and a hindrance than others, obviously. But they've all been indoctrinated with numerous ideas and habits that don't work outside the TTH and its related businesses and deprived of other ideas and habits that are essential to function, even in other fundie areas that seem similar to Duggardom. 

College minus always was ridiculous, of course. But I wonder what even they think about bringing the Duggars on board to endorse and advertise them with talk about the wonders and value of education.

And then realizing that afterwards not a single Duggar has ever taken a remote college course or sought credits through testing or anything else they promote (except for Joe's three-month very-much-not-for-credit stint to practice advanced god-bothering at Crown....),,,and that that's almost certainly what JB and M had intended all along.  

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Lady Whistleup]

6 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

I come to this website for the laugh-out-loud snark. But there’s an awful lot of stomach-turning sympathy on this thread for various D family members.
Down with them ALL. 
I want the entire vile D empire to come crashing down. I wish for a PBS Frontline documentary exposing not just their in-name-only church, but JB’s dirty financial doings and illegal holding (imprisonment) of Jana and other adults on the premises. 
I wish for the ankle-biter grandkids to be taken far away, and sterilized upon reaching adulthood.
Go ahead and throw brickbats! I fucking HATE this whole crew.

JMO but you can't really blame the grandkids who had no choice who their parents were or how they are raised. And forced sterilization is I believe illegal in the US.

[Guest]

I was reading this TMZ article about the November 2019 raid on Smuggar's office and, Christ, this statement from Jim Blob a Duggar "family spokesperson": 

Quote

A Duggar family spokesperson says it's not true "any member of our family is the target of any investigation of any kind." The spokesperson added, "Living a life in the public's eye has taught us that it is best not to reply to every rumor and piece of 'fake news' that is circulated online. It would be a full-time job if we attempted to do so."

I guess the Duggars have a very loose interpretation of "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor."  

"The tablet said 'neighbor,' not "SON!" -- Jim Bob, probably

Also, weren't there rumors at the time the feds raided the TTH? I am probably misremembering.

[Tuxcat]

Can someone please explain to me the theory behind "they knew this was coming." How did the Duggars know about this arrest beforehand?

The images were from May 2019 (a very narrow date range too), and the raid was on the car lot computers in November 2019... Typically people don't know what the investigation is even about... or do they? I would think that the feds don't tell you and thus give you a chance to clean up your act. They would have wanted to continue to surveil him - not tip him off.

Since we know there is a lot of financial stuff too then its possible Josh would have no clue (he's dumb enough). And even more possible that he didn't tell his family what was on that car lot computer.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Chai said:

I was wondering if Jim bob and Michelle can be charged with being so negligent in giving any kind of basic care/moral compass to any of their 19 children that they could be sued for letting these people loose on society? From not having the necessary funds to raise all those kids and to continue to have them, they would’ve been homeless until TLC came along. Who else instead of buying a house insists the kids can build one? Lack of schooling, that in of itself gets me. To negligent in getting professional help for the daughters who were molested and now this with Josh. It is criminal!

JB and Michelle have been investigated by authorities back in 2015 after the first scandal broke.  They were not charged with any crime.  Then they were able to adopt Tyler, Michelle's niece's son.  They fostered Tyler before adopting, so a social worker or two has been in their home more than once. 

While many will find them morally repugnant,  they have not done anything illegal.   Even with Josh, they did seek out help, a state trooper who believed in the correct Jesus.  Now that guy turned out also to be charged with possession of CSA images.  

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Can someone please explain to me the theory behind "they knew this was coming." How did the Duggars know about this arrest beforehand?

The images were from May 2019 (a very narrow date range too), and the raid was on the car lot computers in November 2019... Typically people don't know what the investigation is even about... or do they? I would think that the feds don't tell you and thus give you a chance to clean up your act. They would have wanted to continue to surveil him - not tip him off.

Since we know there is a lot of financial stuff too then its possible Josh would have no clue (he's dumb enough). And even more possible that he didn't tell his family what was on that car lot computer.

An anonymous source has claimed to the media that Jim Bob called the family on Thursday morning to alert them Josh was being arrested on "serious charges" later that day. 

So, that's the source for that. It's not just random speculation. Of course, it is debatable whether it is true since it is an unverifiable source. I honestly go back and forth on whether it is true.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Zella

[BigBingerBro]

I've read countless posts here and elsewhere saying that the Feds will have an open and shut case against pest, yet his laywers claim they are planning to prove his innocence.   Aside from the "it wasn't me" defense, what else is he going to have to do to prove his innocence?    I'm thinking some pretty intricate details that either he wasn't the only one using the device the images were found on or someone else will have toi fess up to clear his name.  thoughts?

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

Can someone please explain to me the theory behind "they knew this was coming." How did the Duggars know about this arrest beforehand?

The images were from May 2019 (a very narrow date range too), and the raid was on the car lot computers in November 2019... Typically people don't know what the investigation is even about... or do they? I would think that the feds don't tell you and thus give you a chance to clean up your act. They would have wanted to continue to surveil him - not tip him off.

Since we know there is a lot of financial stuff too then its possible Josh would have no clue (he's dumb enough). And even more possible that he didn't tell his family what was on that car lot computer.

They knew about the raid in 2019.  They had to know some type of charges could follow it.  I dont thing the family as a whole knew what Josh had done, but the feds are not in the habit of doing random raids.  Josh had serious legal representation already lined up the day after his arrest.   This lawyer from St. Louis is not the kind of lawyer people have on speed dial. 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

 

I've noticed that trend too. Nearly every time there's one of these high profile cases, the guy usually has one of those occupations--like that sick SOB Jerry Sandusky--even if it's not his primary job.

My aunt was briefly married in her early 20s to a guy who coached youth soccer. They divorced after she found out he was messing around with one of the teenage girls on his team.

31 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

 

Since we know there is a lot of financial stuff too then its possible Josh would have no clue (he's dumb enough). And even more possible that he didn't tell his family what was on that car lot computer.

Given that Josh is such a weasel this wouldn't surprise me. I can see him confessing to the family that he fell back into his porn addiction but not going into specifics. Or perhaps telling them he was looking at adults and a picture of a 16-but-looks-21 year-old got slipped into the file. I can believe they didn't know Josh was actually looking at images of small children.

Edited May 2, 2021 by BitterApple

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, BigBingerBro said:

I've read countless posts here and elsewhere saying that the Feds will have an open and shut case against pest, yet his laywers claim they are planning to prove his innocence.   Aside from the "it wasn't me" defense, what else is he going to have to do to prove his innocence?    I'm thinking some pretty intricate details that either he wasn't the only one using the device the images were found on or someone else will have toi fess up to clear his name.  thoughts?

No one else would have to confess per se.  Josh's lawyer would have to show that Josh was not the only one who had access to the device(s) in question.   Or that Josh was not at the car lot on whatever date and time the download occurred.   

I'm curious to see if the prosecution will subpoena any of his brothers who may have also worked there to testify. 

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

Can someone please explain to me the theory behind "they knew this was coming." How did the Duggars know about this arrest beforehand?

The images were from May 2019 (a very narrow date range too), and the raid was on the car lot computers in November 2019... Typically people don't know what the investigation is even about... or do they? I would think that the feds don't tell you and thus give you a chance to clean up your act. They would have wanted to continue to surveil him - not tip him off.

Since we know there is a lot of financial stuff too then its possible Josh would have no clue (he's dumb enough). And even more possible that he didn't tell his family what was on that car lot computer.

So, based on the search warrants I've been on, the feds hit the door, clear the scene (meaning everyone in the building is accounted for, searched for weapons, and pulled into a room for interrogation.  The warrants contain what they are searching for and the questions asked in the interview part pretty much outline why they are there.  Usually a copy of the warrant is provided to the subject of interest.

So yes, the Duggars knew what was coming. I don't know why they would bold face lie about it.  Once the fed's hit the door, they already have evidence.  Once they hit the door, the computers and phones are taken, so there is no time for cleaning up your bad activity.  I did have a warrant in a small town where a person at the court house was a relative of the suspect  and called the suspect to say the police were on the way. The suspect tried to hide evidence by reinstalling windows on his computer.  (Hint:  a reinstall tends to put the same files in the same place on your hard drive, leaving all your files in unallocated space for me to swoop in and recover).  

It's possible that another investigation might come out of this case, if they have proof Josh moved assets to avoid forfeiture. There are some cases that if you have specific known series on your computer, that victim is entitled to compensation.  So....there may be a financial investigation at the end of the Duggar rainbow.

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

No one else would have to confess per se.  Josh's lawyer would have to show that Josh was not the only one who had access to the device(s) in question.   Or that Josh was not at the car lot on whatever date and time the download occurred.   

I'm curious to see if the prosecution will subpoena any of his brothers who may have also worked there to testify. 

This is assuming that the cell phone doesn't contain the same activity, or the same search terms.  If you are compulsive enough to seek out CP, you aren't exactly disciplined enough to confine it to one device.  And remember, there are other artifacts than pictures.  Things that "Net monitoring by Jesus" software isn't even aware of.   If the feds find search terms consistent with CP on his phone, that's another nail in the coffin.   

The feds know that the Duggars aren't without resources.  They know the attacks to expect.  I am sure their forensic people are VERY VERY good.  Any time you have a case that will be high profile, you put your best analyst on it. Not only your best forensic person, but the best forensic person who is great at selling this to a jury.  It is really hard to explain forensics to lay people.  A person who can make anyone understand how files are deleted and recovered is golden.   And we all have experience at the "someone else did it" offense.  We have ways to countering that, to a reasonable degree.  

Most people know the Duggars are scandal ridden.  The jury will know Josh is a sex pest and that he's abused his sisters.  Someone related to a jury member will share this with them.  I was on a jury for a robbery and a person on the jury was knew the suspect's wife. Getting inside information is not rare.  

[Tuxcat]

6 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

t's possible that another investigation might come out of this case, if they have proof Josh moved assets to avoid forfeiture. There are some cases that if you have specific known series on your computer, that victim is entitled to compensation.  So....there may be a financial investigation at the end of the Duggar rainbow

But isn't the reverse also possible? Meaning that they raided for car lot/financial reasons and incidentally found images from May 2019? 

16 minutes ago, Zella said:

An anonymous source has claimed to the media that Jim Bob called the family on Thursday morning to alert them Josh was being arrested on "serious charges" later that day. 

So, that's the source for that. It's not just random speculation. Of course, it is debatable whether it is true since it is an unverifiable source. I honestly go back and forth on whether it is true.

Yes I could see them knowing a few days before. But people keep saying they've known since 2019. I don't see Jeremy and Jinger writing their book if they truly knew what was about to go down.

 

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They knew about the raid in 2019.  They had to know some type of charges could follow it.  I dont thing the family as a whole knew what Josh had done, but the feds are not in the habit of doing random raids.  Josh had serious legal representation already lined up the day after his arrest.   This lawyer from St. Louis is not the kind of lawyer people have on speed dial. 

They knew about the raid but its entirely possible that they didn't know about what - or that Josh lied to them about everything. It's also possible the raid was about something else and then these images were found?

17 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I've read countless posts here and elsewhere saying that the Feds will have an open and shut case against pest, yet his laywers claim they are planning to prove his innocence.   Aside from the "it wasn't me" defense, what else is he going to have to do to prove his innocence?    I'm thinking some pretty intricate details that either he wasn't the only one using the device the images were found on or someone else will have toi fess up to clear his name.  thoughts?

The indictment is for a very specific 2 or 3 day time range in May 2019. Chances that there are more images from other dates are high. But the feds can probably somehow prove the ones from May are absolutely tied to Josh specifically. 

[3 is enough]

42 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Since we know there is a lot of financial stuff too then its possible Josh would have no clue (he's dumb enough). And even more possible that he didn't tell his family what was on that car lot computer.

I was not surprised at all to find out he was using the work computer, only that he was looking at CP. Dumbass thinks he is so smart- probably thought that using the incognito browsing feature would prevent anyone from finding out what he was watching.

I think he pretended to be contrite for a short while after he returned from Jesus jail, but then the old habits came creeping back.  No cell phone or social media, but there was a work computer and let's face it, that lot was hardly busy.  Perfect opportunity for him to spend hours browsing the net.

Edited May 2, 2021 by 3 is enough

[Dianaofthehunt]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

JMO but you can't really blame the grandkids who had no choice who their parents were or how they are raised. And forced sterilization is I believe illegal in the US.

Lady Whistleup, I regret that part of my post and have amended it. You are correct, of course.

[cmr2014]

27 minutes ago, Zella said:

An anonymous source has claimed to the media that Jim Bob called the family on Thursday morning to alert them Josh was being arrested on "serious charges" later that day. 

So, that's the source for that. It's not just random speculation. Of course, it is debatable whether it is true since it is an unverifiable source. I honestly go back and forth on whether it is true.

In Jill's post she said something like "we just heard about it. It's very sad." I really hope she meant just the nature of the charges, not that JB contacted everyone else, but failed to contact her.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

In Jill's post she said something like "we just heard about it. It's very sad." I really hope she meant just the nature of the charges, not that JB contacted everyone else, but failed to contact her.

I can actually see her not getting the call even if the others were called. Jim Bob is definitely that petty. 

[hathorlive]

13 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

But isn't the reverse also possible? Meaning that they raided for car lot/financial reasons and incidentally found images from May 2019? 

Yes I could see them knowing a few days before. But people keep saying they've known since 2019. I don't see Jeremy and Jinger writing their book if they truly knew what was about to go down.

 

Any thing is possible.  I won't know what went on until I read the affidavit, which will say how this got on the feds radar.   Once they hit the house and business, they knew.  I'm pretty sure, based on my experience, that they went to the big house to talk about the suspect.  Talking to people always gets more information for the case.  If they are at the big house asking if Josh had access to computers (which is reasonable in this case), then they might have indicated what they were looking for.   Or not. I'm speculating here.

As for Jere and Jinger, they aren't exactly the most prescient business people on the planet.

Edited May 2, 2021 by hathorlive

[Zella]

28 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

 

Yes I could see them knowing a few days before. But people keep saying they've known since 2019. I don't see Jeremy and Jinger writing their book if they truly knew what was about to go down.

They knew about the raid but its entirely possible that they didn't know about what - or that Josh lied to them about everything. It's also possible the raid was about something else and then these images were found?

I think they failed to appreciate the significance of a federal raid, either out of ignorance or arrogance. I can see them knowing the raid happened but not actually what was found, particularly the other siblings, so them continuing on with their lives until they are blind-sided with news of the arrest.

However, I don't think the CP that was found was found at another time or was found in the course of finding something else. Some of our commenters on here with federal experience have mentioned that the warrant/search wouldn't really work that way. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Zella

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think they failed to appreciate the significance of a federal raid, either our of ignorance or arrogance. I can see them knowing the raid happened but not actually what was found, particularly the other siblings. 

I agree. I had no idea how the Feds worked until I read about it on here, and I can 100% believe Boob and Josh were hazy with the details. This group is also big on the "Christian persecution" myth, so I can see Jinger figuring this is another case of the big bad liberals trying to bring her godly family down, and nothing will come of it. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by BitterApple

[GeeGolly]

I'm not sure JB knew of the arrest until it happened. I think he called his other children after the arrest, as I believe some siblings posted the same day of the arrest and Josh was arrested about midday.

Edited May 2, 2021 by GeeGolly

[BitterApple]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not JB knew of the arrest until it happened. I think he called his other children after the arrest, as I believe some siblings posted the same day of the arrest and Josh was arrested about midday.

I think so too. Josh looked high a/f in that mug shot, like they broke down the door and dragged him out of bed. Usually by midday, the average adult is showered, dressed and coherent. I'm not entirely convinced the Duggars had all this advanced warning. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by BitterApple

[Zella]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not JB knew of the arrest until it happened. I think he called his other children after the arrest, as I believe some siblings posted the same day of the arrest and Josh was arrested about midday.

Yeah I think that is quite likely. I also wouldn't rule out the anonymous source being put up to telling that story as some form of bizarre damage control, without it being true. 

[3 is enough]

Given that the raid took place at the car lot maybe they thought that some of the inventory they had purchased at auction turned out to be stolen.  They weren't too worried because they had purchased it from a third party, but they denied the raid because of the bad publicity.

This is assuming they were not told about the reason for the raid.

[Zella]

The only thing that really gives me pause is them already having the fancy out-of-state attorney ready to go the next day. But that might actually be just because he is Story's go-to "oh shit this is federal--I need backup" associate than any real prep from the family. 

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

The only thing that really gives me pause is them already having the fancy out-of-state attorney ready to go the next day. But that might actually be just because he is Story's go-to "oh shit this is federal--I need backup" associate than any real prep from the family. 

Maybe they reached out to this guy last November and hired him, for if and when something went down. Or maybe they hired him on the day of the arrest.

Edited May 2, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Maybe they reached out to this guy last November and hired him, for if and when something went down. Or maybe they hired him on the day of they arrest.

True. If it was day of, he returns his calls way faster than the attorneys I've tried to contact over the years! 

[3 is enough]

I suppose if there is a trial we will get the true story, but if he changes his plea we may never know.

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

True. If it was day of, he returns his calls way faster than the attorneys I've tried to contact over the years! 

Well this lawyer agreed to defend Josh, so there's something that likely isn't quite right about him. lol

[Churchhoney]

34 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They knew about the raid in 2019.  They had to know some type of charges could follow it.  I dont thing the family as a whole knew what Josh had done, but the feds are not in the habit of doing random raids.  Josh had serious legal representation already lined up the day after his arrest.   This lawyer from St. Louis is not the kind of lawyer people have on speed dial. 

Josh had to know what was on his work computer.

And I would think that, even if he thought he'd deleted stuff -- although why would he if he were the only person who used the computer-- the knowledge of what somebody might find on it would have nagged at him as it would nag at anybody in that position, no matter how arrogant or dim the person, I would think.

Is it possible that sometime over the past year and a half -- maybe even quite soon after the raid -- this started weighing on him so much that he called his parents (or just JB) and told them/him at least in vague terms what "may have been" on the computer -- and then JB called his lawyers at that point and asked them to put together a suitable team? And the Story firm found the St. Louis lawyer through their connections and brought him in -- so things were lined up well in advance even though nobody knew exactly when or even if an arrest would happen? 

That could have been done without actually informing anybody else the family. Although there'd probably be enough nervous scurrying surrounding it that the feeling that something was up would have spread.....

 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Well this lawyer agreed to defend Josh, so there's something that likely isn't quite right about him. lol

True! The one attorney I use for garden-variety legal stuff sometimes doesn't call back for a week. But I'm not paying him what I imagine the Duggars are shelling out for this dude.