Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[cmr2014]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I do remember her saying that. I don't remember any of the rest of them mentioning the rules, but I am pretty sure Jessa was the one saying in the interview that these things were common in many families. Even if it wasn't her, whichever one was saying that I am sure was just parroting back what they were told. :( And I can't help but think that will inevitably affect their parenting and how they view their children. 

All of the gen 3 kids are little right now, and I think people give gen 2 a big pass. Joy and Austin have both expressed support for Blanket Training and people insist that they don't see signs of any abuse in their kids. They only have two kids now. When they have 6 or 8, and 4 of them are under 5, they may well start concerning themselves more with "instant obedience."

Joe seems like a laid back guy, but he's got 3 kids under 3 now. When there are eight kids under eight and the eldest son is holding his two year old sister on his lap, will Joe freak out and yank the girl away?

Jinger has two girls now. Suppose they have a son, will Jinger lock him in his room at night?

There's a lot of trauma here, and very little understanding or context for any of them.

[mynextmistake]

32 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I would wager that there will be no plea agreement for Josh.  The only deal the feds will take is probably 20 years (no one ever gets consecutive sentences if found guilty in my experience).  If found guilty by a jury, he's likely to get around 10 years, depending on the scale and scope of what was found.  Juries don't like child predators.  Even fundies in Arkansas are going to be disgusted by this.  Many of my trials have shown the images or videos in court. I always watch the juries' reaction.  Shock, angry, disgust...there's no way that the jury won't have heard that he molested his sisters.  So any potentially sympathetic "Christian" on the jury is not going to be inclined to help him out.  The prosecutors know this and are not going to offer him a sweetheart deal.  

I do not see them going to trial on this, unless it’s to make some kind of weird political point. I know a lot of very conservative people who hold what I consider to be very wacky beliefs, and not one of them would be okay with a grown man looking at pictures depicting sexual abuse of minors. Even hardened criminals, like murderers, hate these guys. 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by mynextmistake

[Lady Whistleup]

I'm going to bed but my mind has been troubled all day because of this. Maybe because I always found a lot of humor in Duggar snark. I've been following the various Duggar snark boards for years. There was just so much to snark on -- the ridiculous perms, the J names, the J slaves, the side hugs, the gross food, the grosser hygiene, Jeremy's pocket squares, how pathetically bad they are at "influencing." Recently Joy's hideous magnetic eyelashes made me bust out laughing after a rough day.

But ... this shit is not funny anymore. None of it is. Child porn, Josh being a pedo, the fact that Anna has another child on the way, the abused J sisters who have to deal with the blaring headlines, the little Duggarlings who are now old enough to realize what's happening. It's just so awful.

I feel sad for all the innocents in this family (and there are a lot of them). 

[Zella]

18 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I know fundies are terrified if adult porn (see the movie Fireproof). 

As an example of this: When I was at COFO--which is fundie but not like Duggar level fundie--something happened, and they had a mandatory boys' only convocation with a very vague name. (Convocations were regular event, usually like a speaker, and you were required to attend a set amount each semester until you became a senior.) Meanwhile, the girls had some nonmandatory convo that I didn't even attend, but it was very specifically titled and was some sort of fun something. I was there for 3 years, and this is the only time that ever happened. 

I figured the boys one had a story behind it, and none of my male friends wanted to talk about it. One finally reluctantly spilled the beans and told me it was basically a 2-hour meltdown about porn. I guess somebody on campus got caught with regular porn, and that was the reaction. I thought it was hilarious, and my friend who told me about it normally would have, too, but he told me he didn't want to talk about it anymore or joke about it because things got so weird and intense. I still have no clue what happened in that convocation. But THAT was their reaction. I can't imagine a normal fundie reaction--if they're not being hypocritical--being less extreme. 

Edited to add: I also knew a senior there who thought all sex scenes in movies were porn. I argued with her about that, and I could tell she thought I was a slut for being able to define porn. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Zella

[cereality]

13 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

All of the gen 3 kids are little right now, and I think people give gen 2 a big pass. Joy and Austin have both expressed support for Blanket Training and people insist that they don't see signs of any abuse in their kids. They only have two kids now. When they have 6 or 8, and 4 of them are under 5, they may well start concerning themselves more with "instant obedience."

Joe seems like a laid back guy, but he's got 3 kids under 3 now. When there are eight kids under eight and the eldest son is holding his two year old sister on his lap, will Joe freak out and yank the girl away?

Jinger has two girls now. Suppose they have a son, will Jinger lock him in his room at night?

There's a lot of trauma here, and very little understanding or context for any of them.

I can very much see JD, Joseph, Josiah, Jill (for other reasons), Joy, and Jinger limiting family size because of this. Not saying they’ll all have 2 kids; but I do think they love their kids and want a healthier environment than the one they were raised in which requires mom and dad being in control and not being overwhelmed. That may be 3 kids for some couples and 6 for another but I really think all of them will fear situations where they don’t know exactly what their older kids are doing. 

I think Smug Jessa and Jed - who reminds me of JB Jr. - will carry on; and Justin strikes me as too young and dumb to understand what the problem is here.
 

 

[LexieLily]

8 minutes ago, cereality said:

I can very much see JD, Joseph, Josiah, Jill (for other reasons), Joy, and Jinger limiting family size because of this. Not saying they’ll all have 2 kids; but I do think they love their kids and want a healthier environment than the one they were raised in which requires mom and dad being in control and not being overwhelmed. That may be 3 kids for some couples and 6 for another but I really think all of them will fear situations where they don’t know exactly what their older kids are doing. 

Joseph and Kendra need to have a discussion about how that is going to look for them, then. They already have three in three/four years.

[mynextmistake]

4 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Joseph and Kendra need to have a discussion about how that is going to look for them, then. They already have three in three/four years.

Yeah. I’m not sure they banked on Kendra’s fertility. They could easily have more than 19 at this rate.

[cereality]

Totally irrelevant but did anyone notice in Jason’s wedding pics a few weeks ago in a Duggar brother pic, Josh was there front and center next to the groom with his arm around him?? I remember noticing and thinking WTH - bc the family usually excludes Josh from pictures at least those they’ll publicly share or sticks him on the end where he can be cropped out easily if TLC is filming. I remembered thinking then - why is this bloated sleaze front and center, does the groom want him there? Who knows though. Rumor has it they knew an arrest was coming so maybe JB and Michele wanted a pic of all of their sons together w/o one missing for the next 5-20 yrs or on visitors day w one in a standard issue jump suit. JB & M may have pushed the - make these weddings as happy as possible bc who knows when our next normal family event will be - angle.

No idea how to find that pic now as I can’t recall who posted it plus I think pics w Josh have likely been deleted by now.

Edited May 1, 2021 by cereality

[Tuxcat]

From what I understand the recovery/rehabilitation success for someone with a pedophilloic orientation is incredibly low even under the best circumstances. Causes seem to possibly be neurodevelopmental - not strictly environmental. 

While I don't agree with the Duggars, their lifestyle, their choices (which all provided at the very least ACCESS to potential victims) I do empathize with the family. First and foremost you move to protect the innocent. They failed to do that and so I fault them for that. But I don't expect them to just stop loving their son. He is ill.

Yes, he should be held accountable because illness or not, the manifestations of his illness hurts others. This just all seems like an impossible situation to manage. The family is honestly going to be ripped no matter what they do unless they completely cut Josh out of their lives. Is that what they should do?

Very conflicted. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Tuxcat

[dargosmydaddy]

16 minutes ago, cereality said:

Totally irrelevant but did anyone notice in Jason’s wedding pics a few weeks ago in a Duggar brother pic, Josh was there front and center next to the groom with his arm around him?? I remember noticing and thinking WTH - bc the family usually excludes Josh from pictures at least those they’ll publicly share or sticks him on the end where he can be cropped out easily if TLC is filming. I remembered thinking then - why is this bloated sleaze front and center, does the groom want him there? Who knows though. Rumor has it they knew an arrest was coming so maybe JB and Michele wanted a pic of all of their sons together w/o one missing for the next 5-20 yrs or on visitors day w one in a standard issue jump suit. JB & M may have pushed the - make these weddings as happy as possible bc who knows when our next normal family event will be - angle.

No idea how to find that pic now as I can’t recall who posted it plus I think pics w Josh have likely been deleted by now.

Not sure if this is the picture you're talking about (Josh doesn't have his arms around anyone, but it's the only brother picture I've seen recently... Justin's wedding, btw), but it's still on the Duggar Insta here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNfq6vihtO5/ (brothers pic is the third one in; Josh does have his arm around Jana in the first pic with all the siblings).

[emmawoodhouse]

There was a pic from Jed's wedding where Smuggar was more in the middle of the shot. We made fun of his sneakers. Most of the siblings were in this particular picture but not all. We also speculated that Lauren might be pregnant. 

I think the pic came from the photographer.

Edited May 1, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[JoanArc]

Here’s theKelley interview.

I noticed a bunch of confabulations by various posters all day long. Sometimes it is good to have a primary source to review quotes and such.

Edited May 1, 2021 by JoanArc

[Totally]

8 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

One of the very sad things about this is that if he had gotten real help when he molested his sisters, this all might have been avoided. I’m not even saying that JB and Michelle had to turn him into the police. But they could have enrolled him in a sex offender treatment program, or at the very least in real counseling with a licensed therapist. They could’ve told him that his behavior wasn’t OK, that it was within his control, and that victimizing other people is unacceptable. Instead, they swept everything under the rug, forced the girls to forgive him for the abuse, told him he wasn’t culpable because Satan had built a fortress in his heart, and sent him to help some guy finish his kitchen.

Anyone who is speculating that JB and Michelle, or Anna, or any of the other players in this sordid little tale are going to respond any differently this time then they have on all the previous occasions is, in my opinion, going to be disappointed. Their come to Jesus moment should’ve been when their teenage son molested their five year old daughter (or, in Anna‘s case, when she learned about said abuse). It didn’t happen then, it’s not going to happen now.

 

Do sex offender programs work with people who go for kids? 
I watched half a documentary on a prison somewhere in the US that is only for sex offenders, my takeaway from what I watched was there wasn’t any true ability to rehabilitate 

I only watched half because it was disturbing 

I’d like to believe I’m wrong about not being able to rehabilitate 

[emmawoodhouse]

Here's that drawing that was mentioned earlier.

 

[mittsigirl]

2 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Something weird happened to me about three years ago.  I came home from work one day, turned on my laptop, and there was no internet.  Thinking there was an outage in my area, I called my internet provider and was told they turned off my internet.  The guy said because someone in my home violated the DMCA, which they said was the Digital Millennial Copying Act.  He said a movie was illegally downloaded to my IP address.  Now, I'm in my sixties, don't even own a smart phone, only own my laptop, and I wouldn't know how to download a legal movie, much less an illegal movie.  He then said it must have been someone in my home who did it.  I said no, I live alone, have no children, and seldom have visitors.  Besides that, my laptop is in my back bedroom and is password protected.  I told them it was impossible.  He then checked with his supervisor and then told me they figured it out.  He said the IP addresses of their customers change every two weeks.  Apparently what happened is someone somewhere downloaded the illegal movie at the exact micro-second that my IP address changed and went to his computer (or his IP address came to my computer--I forgot how they said it).  Keep in mind that there was no movie downloaded on my computer.  So apparently, the movie downloaded to him, but was listed with my provider as being sent to my IP address.  Talk about being rattled.  All I could think of was what if it was something more serious than an illegal movie?  I asked them to document everything on my account so there will be a record of what happened.  Scary stuff.

I know just how freaked out you were over that! Can you imagine how I felt seeing pictures of children being sexually abused, and not being able to shut my computer off?! The first thing I thought of was to go right to the police station, I am sure I was shaking on that drive to town, but so glad that I did nothing wrong and that they were able to get any information from it and clean my computer all up again. You just don't ever know what can happen with the internet these days! I am happy that you got things figured out!

[coconspirator]

6 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Pedo's and molesters can't be changed.    There is no treatment that works.   The only way they never hurt another child is if they're never around them.   

Years ago, I lived in NM, during the first wave of priest pedophilia and sex abuse cases, and there was a center only for priests for psychiatric, and addiction treatment.   The psychiatrist who headed the center said the only ones who didn't reoffend were never around children or their chosen victims again.   The ones who went back to parish work, or other places that gave access to vulnerable people, always reoffended.   

 

The  majority of kids who sexually offend respond well to a good treatment program. The recidivism rate for treated  juvenile sexual offenders is very low. The vast majority are not pedophiles by the true definition. The word gets tossed around when it doesn’t apply. You are correct that the small percentage who meet the definition of a pedophile are difficult to change with traditional methods  but even those folks can, when motivated not to harm others, follow a safety plan or other risk mitigation methods. The issue with Josh is we have no idea if he could have been helped because nobody tried.

[MsJamieDornan]

Quote

 I do, and also blame them for their failure to protect their daughters. They continued to enable him, making the girls live with their abuser, waiting on him like a king.

They also gave Josh free range of the TTH and its gaggle of children (even after the raid), while Jill has to ask permission to visit her childhood home. The three of them should burn in hell. 

Thank you. I wish I could "like" this 1000 times. Sleazy pieces of shit, each one of them. May they all rot !

[Me from ME]

6 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

Regarding Joy and Austin: They only have two kids now. When they have 6 or 8, and 4 of them are under 5, they may well start concerning themselves more with "instant obedience."

I think the whole obedience vs. personal responsibility thing is key. (On a re-run of Bringing Up Bates I saw it in action. One of the littlest wasn't behaving and Gil said something about having just learned a cool "training tool". He made his son clap on command. It seemed so random and not at all related to the infraction.  As a youngster I was in the habit of slamming the door rather than closing it using the door handle. When being reminded didn't seem to stick I had to close it gently 100 times.)

With the fundies the locus of control is outside themselves so there is something to resist as well as defy when given the chance.

When Josh had the FRC job it must have been his dream. It was a high profile job away from the TTH with a good salary and comfortable life style. The only problem was that he couldn't control himself because he never learned how to. He had everything but didn't know that his actions would have consequences because they never had. A few Ashley Madison contacts and it was all gone. (Maybe contacting adult women was his way of handling his leanings toward pedophilia.)

I wonder if he ever thought back to how he botched his life. From renting a large comfortable house in the DC suburbs to a life in a warehouse under his father's thumb.

[GeeGolly]

I think there's a few facts we all can agree on - JB & M are shitty parents and Josh is beyond deplorable. Right now it doesn't matter how Josh became Josh, because there's no going back. There's also no comparing then and now as to what kind of familial support Josh will get.

The girls were young when the molestations happened and barely adults when it all became public. Anna was young when she married Josh and had no reason not to trust the judgement of the adults around her. And then yes, she stayed with Josh after Ashley Madison.

These new charges are very different. There is absolutely no excuse for a grown man to look at the images Josh looked at. None. I don't believe any Duggar will defend what Josh did if he's found guilty. That doesn't mean they'll shun him or stop loving him, but I don't believe they'll defend him. And if found guilty Josh will be locked up for 10 - 20 years.

What concerns me is if Josh is found not guilty. Folks want to believe their family members are good. That is really scary to me.

I hope this whole thing is not retraumatizing for the 4 Duggar sisters and I hope they get help if it is. I hope Anna's kids (& Anna) receive help starting yesterday.

I also hope the Duggar 18 and their families are allowed to move past this without their brother's transgressions being blamed on them or brought up just because he's their brother.

 

[Showthyme]

11 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

Maybe Anna will end up on reality TV again--Life After Lockup. 

If JB doesn't take care of Anna+ 7, I don't know who will. Anna should start negotiating with JB now for housing and lifetime financial support. She does have a story to tell, and JB would rather not have any more publicity. 

Josh will not be able to pay child support for 7 kids. We don’t know that JB has any money or that he will support Anna and Co for 18 years. Divorce still happens in these Quiverful families. These women are foolish to have so many children without having an education or skill set to support them should something happen. Even TLC won’t employ Anna. A publisher isn’t going to pay her much. The story has already been told.

The Counting On “stars’ are victims but are in a position to speak up. Last I heard JB and Michelle are “disturbed.” Most of us are outraged and very concerned for Josh’s children.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Showthyme

[Slakkie]

11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I doubt Josh can be rehabilitated at this point. 

Anyone with this track record needs to be chemically sterilized and tracked at all times with no computers nor children.  Or left in a Ped village in the North Pole.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Slakkie
spelling counts

[CrazyInAlabama]

The parents JB & M released one of those, 'we'll wait and see what happens, and isn't this unfortunate' statements.     Two of the sisters said the usual non-statements.    I suspect if he gets 20 years in federal prison, that the Duggars will ship Anna and her kids off to her family to support, unless they whine until her family shells out to support the kids.    I bet that if Josh gets 100 years, that Anna will still be sitting and waiting for him.   

I'm betting that one reason the first cases were hushed up is that the victims were blamed too.    I bet the pressure on victims to keep quiet was intense.    I'm sure this case will be blamed on everyone but the person who downloaded the CP.    I'm hoping he gets 20 years or more. 

The problem with being charged with anything as a juvenile is that the record is sealed.    Unless they're charged as an adult, their name isn't given out, and their record is not given out by the courts.    There is no way to know about the real recidivism rate of juveniles.   Many get records expunged (I know of one case that was expunged when person was convicted of two murders while they were under 18.  )

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Slakkie]

8 hours ago, Zella said:

I'm not an Austin fan, but I do think he genuinely loves his children. I have a hard time seeing him being chill with Josh and the child porn charges. 

Yeah I think in a situation where someone choses a partner or spouse over their children when the significant other is a sex offender, the only real recourse is to remove the children.

And even if a forcible divorce was an option, I would not trust the judgment of someone who had to be forced to get a divorce in that situation. 

Austin is a good ole boy and let me tell you Jesus be damned when it comes to kids and a good ole Southern Boy.  There is no way he will allow that vile pig near his children.  He probably will not ever have to worry because Josh best keep away from Austin because he already had to eat one shit sandwich from the "kids will be kids" that happened.  

No way no how.  I have no doubt that Michelle and Jumbo will see their male in laws say enough is enough.  Hopefully the women too.  At this point no one can say Josh is not a predator.  

[floridamom]

Thread Title Suggestion:  "Anna and the 7 Little Ms".

[madpsych78]

Either way, Anna is going to have to make a choice - Josh or her kids. She can't have both. Hopefully, she'll choose her kids.

When Josh was a teen and fondling his sisters, I think it was fair to place some responsibility on JB and Michelle, at least for their actions in handling the issue when it came up. Of course some of the responsibility was still on Josh, even as a teen. After all, there is no evidence or signs that indicate that any of the other Duggar sons are engaging in this behavior - and especially not with children.

But Josh is an adult, so this, thus far, is entirely on him. Now, if JB and Michelle continue to enable him then they will still be part of the problem, even if it doesn't take responsibility away from Josh. 

I hate to say this, but in light of these recent events, I also got to thinking that part of the reason that Jana was probably spared so long ago was because she was too old in Josh's mind. 

I was also thinking that this puts a new spin on why Jinger and Jeremy no longer post their children on social media - consider that they have all daughters, including one who is almost old enough to be past the point of toddlerhood.  

[floridamom]

Anna should ask JB for $100 to go thrift store shopping and then instead go to her appointment with HER lawyer. She already has LLCs and assets in her name. She then should hit her in-laws hard for eternal financial support...in Florida.  I'm curious though if the authorities have a legal right to a 'look back' at the trail of asset ownership. If they can prove those assets were shuffled around to avoid paying fines for Josh's alleged crimes. I reluctantly agree that we must not call Josh a pedophile unless he is convicted first of these charges...you know, innocent until proven guilty regardless of what we all know has been going on there.

[Fosca]

I can't help but think that Josh is smiling in his mugshot because on some level he's relieved that it's over.  No more waiting for the hammer to fall, no more worrying about what will happen--the worst has just happened, and now he doesn't need to struggle anymore with the fears and worries.  He doesn't have to deal with being a father (I don't think he ever wanted kids, though now the reason may be more sinister than I thought, and he certainly hasn't been excited during Anna's last few pregnancy announcements) and a husband (I'm sure Anna's baby fever has driven him crazy).  No more having to deal with his siblings and parents.  No more having to deal with "temptation".  Now all he has to worry about is himself (which he's VERY good at).  It must be freeing, in a way.

[beckie]

Just now, Fosca said:

I can't help but think that Josh is smiling in his mugshot because on some level he's relieved that it's over.  No more waiting for the hammer to fall, no more worrying about what will happen--the worst has just happened, and now he doesn't need to struggle anymore with the fears and worries.  He doesn't have to deal with being a father (I don't think he ever wanted kids, though now the reason may be more sinister than I thought, and he certainly hasn't been excited during Anna's last few pregnancy announcements) and a husband (I'm sure Anna's baby fever has driven him crazy).  No more having to deal with his siblings and parents.  No more having to deal with "temptation".  Now all he has to worry about is himself (which he's VERY good at).  It must be freeing, in a way.

Except that even criminals don't take to kindly to inmates who have done what he did. So he might think all that, but he'll find out it's a different type of hell.

[Fosca]

1 minute ago, beckie said:

Except that even criminals don't take to kindly to inmates who have done what he did. So he might think all that, but he'll find out it's a different type of hell.

Very true, but I don't think that's sunk in yet (or hadn't when the smugshot was taken).  I suspect he won't be smiling at the May hearing.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Fosca
I am my own grammar Nazi

[farmgal4]

The Daily Mail has pictures of Josh INSIDE the jail.

[iwantcookies]

16 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9531833/Moment-19-Kids-Counting-star-Josh-Duggar-booked-jail-child-porn-charges.html

2 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

The Daily Mail has pictures of Josh INSIDE the jail.

 

[farmgal4]

2 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9531833/Moment-19-Kids-Counting-star-Josh-Duggar-booked-jail-child-porn-charges.html

 

Thank you!

[thehorseofpower]

8 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

From what I understand the recovery/rehabilitation success for someone with a pedophilloic orientation is incredibly low even under the best circumstances. Causes seem to possibly be neurodevelopmental - not strictly environmental. 

While I don't agree with the Duggars, their lifestyle, their choices (which all provided at the very least ACCESS to potential victims) I do empathize with the family. First and foremost you move to protect the innocent. They failed to do that and so I fault them for that. But I don't expect them to just stop loving their son. He is ill.

Yes, he should be held accountable because illness or not, the manifestations of his illness hurts others. This just all seems like an impossible situation to manage. The family is honestly going to be ripped no matter what they do unless they completely cut Josh out of their lives. Is that what they should do?

Very conflicted. 

As far as cutting Josh out of their lives - all this family does is breed. And breed some more. There are young children everywhere, all the time, at every family home. How do you keep Josh in the family circle and also keep him away from all those kids? If it were me, while I might still love him if he was my child, I would absolutely cut him out of the family life. Protecting the children from someone who has proven over and over that he cannot be trusted should ALWAYS come first.

[beckie]

From some of the articles I've read, it seems like the Feds went and arrested him(or whatever the correct name for that particular law enforcement is), and I've heard that he turned himself in. Does anyone know for sure which account is true?

[Annb67]

11 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I totally agree with you on principal. Gothard in particular and fundies in general don't value girls and women, but in JB and M's case, I don't feel like they value the boys much either. I think they value those kids that can further their agenda so Jessa, Jill back when she was the snitch, Jed! Josie and (for reasons unknown because his tendencies were becoming obvious as they were grooming him for political greatness) Josh are valued and the other 10 are just part of the pack. 

Well Jed!’s “political career” is torched so good luck to him. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Remember that the only reason the first assaults by Josh were known is that a non-family member squealed on him.   

My suspicion is they married him off to Anna, because she was supposed to show that he wasn't some pervert, and had changed.   My understanding was Anna, and her parents knew about Josh's past before she married him. 

 I bet when the previous cheating and website for cheaters showed up, she got the blame from the family for that too.   I bet they're blaming her for this one also.     I'm betting they blamed the victims the first time too.   

The Duggars don't care about anyone but themselves, including the children, girls and women in their family.  (Good point that others brought up, the Duggar parents only care about themselves, and looking like they're perfect to everyone else.)   I'm hoping after a fair trial, a conviction on the evidence, and many years sentenced to prison, that Josh gets somewhere very far away from his parents.    I guess my hope for Supermax in Florence is a little mean, but no visitors allowed there. 

I don't know if he can get bail, but if he does, then I bet a condition is he can't be around children, including his own.   

Edited May 2, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[lookeyloo]

Does anyone think Ma and Pa Duggar were worried that another one of their sons would have same proclivities so that’s why just locking josh in his room at night wouldn’t have been an option to them?

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, beckie said:

From some of the articles I've read, it seems like the Feds went and arrested him(or whatever the correct name for that particular law enforcement is), and I've heard that he turned himself in. Does anyone know for sure which account is true?

I find it hard to believe Josh would have been given an opportunity to turn himself in. The crimes he's accused of are egregious. And I see no reason Josh, or anyone in that situation, would be afforded the right to turn themselves in.

I don't think anyone saw this coming. I'm guessing since over a year had passed since the raid, everyone thought DHS found nothing. The Ashley Madison scandal happened in 2015. Shortly after that Josh started selling and transferring his property. By 2019, when the raid happened, Josh didn't own anything. I'm assuming only Josh knew there was anything to find and he thought he got away with it.

 

[Jeeves]

2 hours ago, Slakkie said:

Austin is a good ole boy and let me tell you Jesus be damned when it comes to kids and a good ole Southern Boy.  There is no way he will allow that vile pig near his children.  He probably will not ever have to worry because Josh best keep away from Austin because he already had to eat one shit sandwich from the "kids will be kids" that happened.  

No way no how.  I have no doubt that Michelle and Jumbo will see their male in laws say enough is enough.  Hopefully the women too.  At this point no one can say Josh is not a predator.  

I hope you're right about Austin. But dang, the fundie doctrines that he and Joy have been brought up believing, are likely strong. And toxic, and very slanted in favor of following the male headship, blaming women for leading men astray or not satisfying them sexually leading to adultery and porn, etc. I hope Austin steps into his own role as headship of his family and makes good decisions regardless of what His Majesty James Robert Duggar wants him to say or do. 

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I find it hard to believe Josh would have been given an opportunity to turn himself in. The crimes he's accused of are egregious. And I see no reason Josh, or anyone in that situation, would be afforded the right to turn themselves in.

I don't think anyone saw this coming. I'm guessing since over a year had passed since the raid, everyone thought DHS found nothing. The Ashley Madison scandal happened in 2015. Shortly after that Josh started selling and transferring his property. By 2019, when the raid happened, Josh didn't own anything. I'm assuming only Josh knew there was anything to find and he thought he got away with it.

I also doubt he turned himself in. I think Anna was quoted as saying something about that but the news stories call it an arrest. Usually news stories say if the person turned himself in. 

The thing that makes me think the Duggars (at least JB and Josh) knew something would be coming, is that the day after his arrest, they had an experienced federal criminal lawyer from St. Louis (or somewhere not local) representing Josh at the advisement hearing along with the local guy(s). I wouldn't be surprised if that representation had been lined up in advance - although it's possible it resulted from panicked phone calls after Josh was locked up on Thursday.

[Jeanne222]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Different parents would have made different choices for their troubled teen. The choices that Boobchelle made were a compilation of what NOT to do. 

Yes indeed!  No fancy attorneys, no sheltering, no car lot with no cars just hours to download CP!

If Josh dugger had to find his own employment and support his own family he wouldn't have time for all he got himself into!

Idol hands are the devil's workshop!

Relying on a reality show for substance is a terrible way to raise children!

They should have all been schooled and trained for some kind of employment.  

These young brothers  having baby after baby with no education and no work outside the family is shameful and a brewing pot for trouble.

I hope and pray TLC finally cancels this show.  In my mind they are supporting this useless, do nothing lifestyle!

 

[quarks]

I don't think this is going to stop the baby train for most of the Duggarlings, other than the ones who would have slowed down anyway for other reasons (Jill, Jinger, possibly JD/Abbie because of all the issues she had in her first pregnancy).

For them, having children is a religious duty and requirement. And, well - they've just been rather obviously and very publicly punished and shamed. So most of them will want to demonstrate - also obviously and publicly - that they are good, observant Christians. That this is Josh, not them. And how better to do that than to have kids?

That's critical, not just for the TV show, but for their regular interactions and local businesses. It's been fairly clear for the last few years that the TV show (or Jim Bob handling the funds from the TV, whichever) hasn't been enough to support any of them - thus the lawn care services and the house flipping and warehouse rentals and the Instagram stuff.  And for all of that, they need at least some public goodwill.  

(For what it's worth, my guess is that Discovery/TLC massively reduced the per-episode payment for Counting On compared to 19 Kids and Counting) - telling the Duggars that, sure, they could try it and see how it went, and if it went well, the per-episode payment would increase. And then, being Discovery/TLC, they never did increase the per-episode payment.) 

They might also be hoping that eventually pictures of cute little babies and toddlers can help restore at least some goodwill. It worked before. 

What might change, however, is the attitude of some of the Duggarlings towards Josh. They've been trained to forgive minor and major family transgressions, and trained to forgive Josh and interact with him at family events. Once he's released from jail, that training - and JB and Michelle - will probably kick in again. 

This time, however, I think it's going to be a lot harder. It's not just that this is a heinous crime, and that more of the Duggarlings are older and in their own homes, but that this is the second time in six years that Josh has dragged the family into a horrific national news story that's opened all of them up to extremely stressful attacks and directly impacted their financial security.  And that may give some of them the courage/ability/strength to speak out and say, look, Josh is a potential danger to our children. We'll forgive him, but he's not coming into our homes. 

[Chai]

Jim Bob and Michell designed and built their house. In my dream house I would give each child their own bedroom. Yet they only made 2 bedrooms for 18 kids. Supposedly safety in numbers so they all slept together. I noticed when they showed them building the Bates house. They chose 5-6 different bedroom for the same number of children. 

[satrunrose]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I know fundies are terrified if adult porn (see the movie Fireproof). But to normalize the sexual abuse of children is sick. And just makes it easier for perps like Smuggar to find victims. 

It's a really interesting contradiction and I'm interested to see how it shakes out in the Duggars' reactions. Adult porn is this huge boogeyman to the fundie crew. We can see in not only in the Duggar family's reaction to the Ashley Madison scandal (which was far more horrified than their reactions to the molestation scandal) but also in some memorable posts from Jill Rod and Timbits. However, and I realize I'm painting with a very broad brush here, cherishing your children, giving them education, independence and confidence to stand up and speak out and treating them as anything other than numbers in a large and impressive (in that culture) collection is both not a priority and seen as wrong (child training, limited home schooling and "instant obedience" come to mid). In the competition between "Porn is eeeeeeeeeeevil" and "Our golden boy and livelihood are being threatened by these beings of little value (to the Duggars obviously). We must defend him" and "The public will be piiiiiisssssssed and we may lose our livelihood anyway if we don't at least fake righteous anger", which one will win?

Edited May 1, 2021 by satrunrose

[mythoughtis]

50 minutes ago, beckie said:

From some of the articles I've read, it seems like the Feds went and arrested him(or whatever the correct name for that particular law enforcement is), and I've heard that he turned himself in. Does anyone know for sure which account is true?

Turning yourself in means showing up at the police ( or whatever local authority ) booking location etc.  US Marshals don’t need to be involved for that.  marshals come get you or escort you between locales. 

[Jeanne222]

Those that forgive Josh are those dependent on TLC money and those able to support themselves will hopefully break away.

Derrick, Austin, Jeremy and maybe someday John David will someday leave the Dugger campgrounds!

With that said even those fleeing depend on social media and being a part of Dugger world.  Jeremy and Jinger live on those YouTube and social media checks thanks to 19 Kids And Counting!

They're all in this...together!

 

[Tabbygirl521]

26 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I hope you're right about Austin. But dang, the fundie doctrines that he and Joy have been brought up believing, are likely strong. And toxic, and very slanted in favor of following the male headship, blaming women for leading men astray or not satisfying them sexually leading to adultery and porn, etc. I hope Austin steps into his own role as headship of his family and makes good decisions regardless of what His Majesty James Robert Duggar wants him to say or do. 

 

 

Scroll down to see some actual Gothard materials regarding abuse. Prepare to be enraged. 
 

https://m.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog/posts/pcb.157539799705930/?photo_id=157537746372802&mds=%2Fphotos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dpcb.157539799705930%26photo%3D157537746372802%26profileid%3D1664983675%26source%3D49%26refid%3D17%26ref%3Dm_notif%26notif_t%3Dfeedback_reaction_generic%26_ft_%3Dmf_story_key.157539799705930%3Atop_level_post_id.157539799705930%3Atl_objid.157539799705930%3Acontent_owner_id_new.100063497325684%3Athrowback_story_fbid.157539799705930%3Apage_id.100063497325684%3Aphoto_attachments_list.[157537746372802%2C157537769706133%2C157537809706129]%3Astory_location.4%3Astory_attachment_style.album%3Atds_flgs.3%3Aott.AX_bQA4KcPuiK0V6%3Athid.100063497325684%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1622530799%3A-7630230841747789085%26__tn__%3DEH-R%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3D&mdp=1&mdf=1

[Snow Fairy]

I wonder what Anna's parents think about all of this. Are they so fundie they are checked out of reality?

[satrunrose]

That's interesting! I'm predicting that, while the break-aways are unlikely to forgive Josh for their own reasons, the TLC dependent crew are going to have to (for the public, anyway) shun him. A show with Josh as the big bad and his 17 innocent siblings trying to pick up the pieces might just work. A show with Josh the prodigal son and his 20 (counting Anna, JB and Mechelle) little enablers is going to be distasteful to all but the humpiest of leg humpers.

12 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Those that forgive Josh are those dependent on TLC money and those able to support themselves will hopefully break away.

Derrick, Austin, Jeremy and maybe someday John David will someday leave the Dugger campgrounds!

With that said even those fleeing depend on social media and being a part of Dugger world.  Jeremy and Jinger live on those YouTube and social media checks thanks to 19 Kids And Counting!

They're all in this...together!

 

 

[lascuba]

49 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

My suspicion is they married him off to Anna, because she was supposed to show that he wasn't some pervert, and had changed.   I bet when the previous cheating and website for cheaters showed up, she got the blame from the family for that too.   I bet they're blaming her for this one also.     I'm betting they blamed the victims the first time too.   The Duggars don't care about anyone but themselves, including the children, girls and women in their family.  

Oh, absolutely. Women are supposed to monitor internet activity. This is all on Anna, according to Gothard.

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

LOL, I think we agree but are coming at this from different angles. There's plenty of fault to go around here. But as adults, I place the onus of blame on Boobchelle. They should have moved heaven and earth to get Smuggar the help he obviously needed. They failed their golden child almost as much as they failed the victims. 

Yep. Taking JB and Michelle's version of events--a version that's supposed to make them look good--at face value, it was Josh who confessed the molestations and asked for help. And all they could think was how to best protect him from real world consequences.

[lascuba]

11 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

I wonder what Anna's parents think about all of this. Are they so fundie they are checked out of reality?

When David asked Pa Keller for Priscilla's hand, Keller told him that he had to promise that he'd let Pris control his internet activity.

I think the Keller parents are even more checked out than the Duggars, which probably explains why they're kids are split between having completely left fundamentalism or being batshit fundie.

Edited May 1, 2021 by lascuba