Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[lookeyloo]

I'd like to imagine somehow Jana getting her hands on, meaning downloaded to her phone, a romance novel or two.

[DragonFaerie]

18 hours ago, Nysha said:

I think this applied to Anna's family, not the Duggars. Michelle kept a fertility chart on the fridge & JB humped her on the mini-golf course. Plus, Jana went with Jill to her midwife classes as her accountability partner. The Duggars are a very sexualized family, while their children may be innocent of the facts of life later than most, I'm pretty sure by now Jana knows what part goes into what hole.

I can't imagine how many times those kids have walked in on Boob and Me'chelle.  After all they've said that the kids routinely coming into their room late at night to talk one on one with them.  They have to have all walked in on a bit of hey, hey, hey.  

Plus I can't imagine Jana hasn't been subjected to the newly married girls talking about having sex for the first time with each other.  The whole, what was it like for you? How was it? etc, etc.  

Then there's the whole, Boy is Jana fast on that google for Felicity's name meanings.  You can't tell me she hasn't looked up sex.

[Lunera]

I hope that's not a bump on Ana 

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, Lunera said:

I hope that's not a bump on Ana 

Looks like she’s crouching down, knees bent. 

[Temperance]

Anna is wearing the maternity dress which Joy also has one just like it and wore to go dirt biking. It's possible that they wear maternity clothes while not pregnant...

[madpsych78]

How is it that Priscilla looks more like her husband than she does her own sister???

[Nysha]

So, the boys got to ride horses and the zip line while the girls got to make spaghetti-hot dog spiders...oh well, at least they have their priorities in order.

[Heathen]

Ofsmuggar's kids are routinely about two years apart. I don't expect the inevitable M6 announcement until late winter or early spring. 

[RedheadZombie]

I love that Anna's kids are the least Duggar looking of the bunch.

[DragonFaerie]

15 hours ago, Nysha said:

So, the boys got to ride horses and the zip line while the girls got to make spaghetti-hot dog spiders...oh well, at least they have their priorities in order.

I wondered this as well, but in one of the pics, I noticed what looked like one of the Fort Rock camp buildings.  Meaning I know WAY too much about these people.  So I went to David and Priscilla's blog and discovered that David and Josh had taken the older boys to a Father and Son camp at Fort Rock. Meanwhile Priscilla got to have some quality time with her sister and their smaller kids.  They also talked about how much Mackenzie loves learning to cook and make food for her younger siblings.  Head*desk*thunk.  In other words, Sister Mom training. Sigh

[anna0852]

 Is anybody else smiling to themselves, thinking the lovely thought of how Josh must be incandescent with rage that Derrick is the one going to law school?

[lookeyloo]

8 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

 Is anybody else smiling to themselves, thinking the lovely thought of how Josh must be incandescent with rage that Derrick is the one going to law school?

Other than motivation and money, is there any real reason why Josh couldn't go to law school?  And pass the bar? Would his issues be held against him in Arkansas?

[Bayarea4]

6 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Other than motivation and money, is there any real reason why Josh couldn't go to law school?  And pass the bar? Would his issues be held against him in Arkansas?

Yes. He has character issues. Even if he got accepted to a law school and got his degree, ask yourself this: what law firm would hire him? He's well-known to the public as a former child molester. I sure wouldn't want to be his client, would you?

[bigskygirl]

11 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Other than motivation and money, is there any real reason why Josh couldn't go to law school?  And pass the bar? Would his issues be held against him in Arkansas?

Laziness, having to get up on time, the devil, wife and five children, having to learn how to read and write properly, not treating women as sex objects... I could go on all day.

[Minivanessa]

24 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Other than motivation and money, is there any real reason why Josh couldn't go to law school?  And pass the bar? Would his issues be held against him in Arkansas?

He's seven years away from a law degree if he started this week. Four years to get a bachelor's degree, then three years in law school.

About the fitness to practice law thing. Josh was never charged with any crimes, despite the nasty things he did to those little girls when he was himself a minor, and as to what he got found out doing as an adult? If adulterous porn-watching hypocrites (male and female) were denied admission to the bar on that basis, there wouldn't be such a surplus of lawyers in this country. The existence of the surplus speaks for itself.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Jeeves

[lianau]

3 hours ago, DragonFaerie said:

  They also talked about how much Mackenzie loves learning to cook and make food for her younger siblings.  Head*desk*thunk.  In other words, Sister Mom training. Sigh

I loved cooking and baking with my mother too . 

[Heathen]

9 minutes ago, lianau said:

I loved cooking and baking with my mother too . 

So did I. My dad taught me to make sugar cookies when I was eight. 

[Picture It. Sicily]

You weren't born into a fundamentalist cult. Everything these people do is designed to groom their daughters into the perfect servants for their future headship. Horse riding and zip line don't serve your master, so she doesn't need to learn it. Of course she loves cooking and sewing. They're the only options she is given. 

[bigskygirl]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

He's seven years away from a law degree if he started this week. Four years to get a bachelor's degree, then three years in law school.

About the fitness to practice law thing. Josh was never charged with any crimes, despite the nasty things he did to those little girls when he was himself a minor, and as to what he got found out doing as an adult? If adulterous porn-watching hypocrites (male and female) were denied admission to the bar on that basis, there wouldn't be such a surplus of lawyers in this country. The existence of the surplus speaks for itself.

I can see the commercials now. Have you been wronged by tabloid magazines, did the devil make you it, your parents did not let you look at dirty girly magazines or date, evil women tempt you too much, your curiosity caused you to molest some of your sisters, then call Josh aka Smuggly Do Wrong at 1-800-555-5555. I will work on your case and help you prove you are the innocent victim you say you are.

[lookeyloo]

1 hour ago, Bayarea4 said:

Yes. He has character issues. Even if he got accepted to a law school and got his degree, ask yourself this: what law firm would hire him? He's well-known to the public as a former child molester. I sure wouldn't want to be his client, would you?

Well of course not!  Just curious if he could pass muster according to the bar laws/policies. That’s all. 

[magpye29]

50 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

call Josh aka Smuggly Do Wrong at 1-800-555-5555

It's probably gonna be 1-800-666-6666.  Just sayin'.

[Bayarea4]

37 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Well of course not!  Just curious if he could pass muster according to the bar laws/policies. That’s all. 

Thanks for the clarification, lookeyloo. I doubt if Josh could pass muster. He isn't smart enough, and his education was third-rate at best.

[bigskygirl]

3 minutes ago, Bayarea4 said:

Thanks for the clarification, lookeyloo. I doubt if Josh could pass muster. He isn't smart enough, and his education was third-rate at best.

Once again, I misunderstood the meaning behind the sentence. I might as well just move into the Prayer Closet.

[Minivanessa]

12 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Well of course not!  Just curious if he could pass muster according to the bar laws/policies. That’s all. 

 

11 hours ago, Bayarea4 said:

Thanks for the clarification, lookeyloo. I doubt if Josh could pass muster. He isn't smart enough, and his education was third-rate at best.

Assuming he could get the education, I think Josh would not be disqualified from taking the Arkansas bar exam because of "fitness." As I posted above, he committed the sexual assaults when he was himself a minor, and he has never been arrested or charged, much less convicted, of any crimes (as an adult or a juvenile).

As to his adult behavior that was such a scandal and got him fired from FRC? He watched porn and committed adultery. Those acts are not illegal, and although not admirable, not grounds for disqualification or disbarment. If they were, we'd have a much smaller number of licensed lawyers, and I'm only sort of kidding. We'd also be short of doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and dentists. Just saying.

[winsomeone]

Josh is more than 7 years away from being a lawyer..bet he would need 2-3 years of remedial classes before he could even start college.

[Natalie68]

On 8/10/2018 at 6:37 PM, Scarlett45 said:

That’s what I thought it was when I heard the rumors. I never dreamed he would actually molest his sisters. I did notice that the other kids didn’t seem to like Josh much, but I thought that was just because he was a smug ass. 

As far as the Kellers, well fundies talk. I can see the parents knowing but not giving Anna the full version. 

If my parents served me up on a platter to a child molester they would never see me or my children again.  To do this is almost as bad as what Josh did in my mind.  They loved the fame and promise of tv money more than protecting their daughter and potential granddaughters.  Wonder what is going to come bursting out of the skeleton closet once these kids are old enough to speak and articulate a thought?  I can't believe they will all buy into the madness of Gothard and fundamentalism.  

[bigskygirl]

18 hours ago, magpye29 said:

It's probably gonna be 1-800-666-6666.  Just sayin'.

Make that 1-866-666-6666 ext. 6666 . Just sayin'.

[freebie]

I don't know ... when I passed the bar here in Maryland, I got taken to task by the Character Committee interviewer for some old speeding tickets from years prior (law is my second career) in another state. You would be surprised what they can/will dig up. Even if you don't have the more obvious red flags on your record (criminal conviction, academic honor code violation, etc.), they want to know about things you wouldn't think would be issues, like your debts, civil actions you were involved in, mental health issues, etc. The general standard in most states, including Arkansas, is that you have to be of "good moral character." Good luck, Josh.

[SMama]

Then also good luck Derick with his homophobic and transphobic rants. Especially going after a minor.

Edited August 17, 2018 by SMama

[Loves2Dance]

On 8/10/2018 at 9:31 PM, BitterApple said:

I don't either. I think Boob gave Pa Keller a sanitized version, maybe alluding to a "sin" but not getting into specifics. I think the Kellers figured it was something fairly innocuous, like Josh getting caught making out with a girl in the church's broom closet. Obviously not something they'd approve of, but not something that would raise red flags. I just have to believe the Kellers aren't that far gone that they'd knowingly marry their daughter off to a man who molested his own sisters.

I think you may be giving the Keller's too much credit. They have a clear pattern of bad choices and the inability to keep their brute of kids together and on the same track. Despite Josh's past problems, I think they were more than happy to marry her off into Fundie royalty in the same way they got Pris married off to David. The fact that Josh had a past probably didn't matter to them as long as Anna married into the family and they controlled their son. 

[becca3891]

On 8/8/2018 at 10:49 PM, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Anna reminds me of the wives in slave narratives I read in college.  The slave owner is always portrayed as despicable because he kept slaves, but the more you read the more you realized his wife was usually more hateful and intolerant than him.  That’s Anna.  For all Smuggar’s faults, and there are many, she is just as bad.  She may not be a molester or sexual deviant, but she knowingly married and procreated with one and still has the nerve to point fingers and judge.  What a sanctimonious, hypocritical bitch she is under that veil of meekness and innocence.  

I find this characterization unfair, and I'll tell you why. Both the slaveowners' wives and Quiverfull wives are powerless. They have no choice but to toe the party line, but the roots of patriarchy run deep.

On 8/10/2018 at 8:54 PM, Caracoa1 said:

For whatever reason I just don't believe that Anna knew that Josh molested his family until it hit the news...... Who in their right mind would marry a pervert who molested his own sisters?  When the news broke, they hid Anna so damn fast and no one heard from her for weeks.  They were probably working on a story and she has stuck to it ever since cuz she's so damn brainwashed.  

I believe she did, but also agree with whoever it was who said that it was told to her in vague terms, due to her complete innocence regarding all things sexual. 

On 8/11/2018 at 12:36 PM, Caracoa1 said:

Wait.. what?!!  Anna was not told about marital sex and conception until 2 weeks before she was married?  WTF is wrong with these people?  Do the men get off on the frightened look of their Bride on their wedding night?  Are they even aware that the woman to can experience pleasure?

I HATE giving them any credit at all, but yes, they do encourage sexual pleasure for women. They endorse a Christian author named Dr. Ed Wheat who has written books about married sexual intimacy, and fairly explicit details regarding the clitoris and female pleasure are included.

On 8/11/2018 at 5:31 PM, floridamom said:

Scarlett45: Anna, herself, stated on the show in a TH, all her own, that she and her sisters did not and do not know the specifics about sex until their mother sits them down about two weeks before their wedding. Yes, I couldn't believe it either. Anna said it herself. She called it 'useless information". What were they going to do with that knowledge,, anyway? This is what she said. I'm with you on the unbelievability of this type of thinking.....which is what lead me to think that Jana, a woman of 28, doesn't know the specifics either. Blows you mind, doesn't it? These virgin girl/women must keep their thoughts pure and knowledge of this information puts them at risk to lose that 'purity' of mind. Shocked, I am.

People have to remember that smartphones haven't been around long, and are generally not given to young people in their lifestyle. Heck, I was born in 1983 and remained very innocent until the late 90s because I had no Internet access.

On 8/12/2018 at 4:57 PM, DragonFaerie said:

I can't imagine how many times those kids have walked in on Boob and Me'chelle.  After all they've said that the kids routinely coming into their room late at night to talk one on one with them.  They have to have all walked in on a bit of hey, hey, hey.  

Plus I can't imagine Jana hasn't been subjected to the newly married girls talking about having sex for the first time with each other.  The whole, what was it like for you? How was it? etc, etc.  

Then there's the whole, Boy is Jana fast on that google for Felicity's name meanings.  You can't tell me she hasn't looked up sex.

Yes, given that Jana has a smartphone, I'm sure she has looked up plenty. However, regarding the walking in on "hey, hey, hey" time, they grossly alluded to that in one of their books by saying that they have a strong lock on their bedroom door.

[zenme]

I can't imagine Anna agreeing to Josh being set loose amongst a school of young co-eds. Not that what Anna says in that family really matters, but I can't see JimBob thinking it's okay either.  He wouldn't be supportive, and let's face it, Smuggar gets help from Daddy. 

[Snow Fairy]

Just saw this on Pickles

. Also, many know about Josh getting his head shaved at 17 as punishment for his continued sins. It was done at the Duggars' home church by church elders including Jim Bob. Josh resisted the punishment and they told him that if he didn't go through with it they would also shave the head of the girl (not his sister) he abused. The church apparently partly blamed her for being abused.

That's it for now...At least this information clears up the shaved head incident.

 

Are also his sisters blamed for being abused? Probably, and that's so sad

[kokapetl]

3 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Just saw this on Pickles

. Also, many know about Josh getting his head shaved at 17 as punishment for his continued sins. It was done at the Duggars' home church by church elders including Jim Bob. Josh resisted the punishment and they told him that if he didn't go through with it they would also shave the head of the girl (not his sister) he abused. The church apparently partly blamed her for being abused.

That's it for now...At least this information clears up the shaved head incident.

 

Are also his sisters blamed for being abused? Probably, and that's so sad

Sounds like semi-bullshit. This would have been between Josh and the “elders”. I can believe Josh was pressured with an idle threat, I don’t believe the victims were every actually at risk of a head shaving, and I can’t believe that anyone privy to these sort of shenanigans would have leaked it. 

[Snow Fairy]

Picles says she (or he?) has lots of more information about everything, but needs to consult the lawyer before coming out with it. We'll see

[kalamac]

10 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Just saw this on Pickles

. Also, many know about Josh getting his head shaved at 17 as punishment for his continued sins. It was done at the Duggars' home church by church elders including Jim Bob. Josh resisted the punishment and they told him that if he didn't go through with it they would also shave the head of the girl (not his sister) he abused. The church apparently partly blamed her for being abused.

That's it for now...At least this information clears up the shaved head incident.

 

Are also his sisters blamed for being abused? Probably, and that's so sad

I could be remembering this wrong, so anyone who knows better, feel free to correct this, but I believe Jinger has said that she knew she was sinner when she was 8, and Joy has said when she was 5, which incidentally are the ages they were when the molestations took place, indicating to me, that they were made to feel like it was at least partially their fault.

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, kalamac said:

I could be remembering this wrong, so anyone who knows better, feel free to correct this, but I believe Jinger has said that she knew she was sinner when she was 8, and Joy has said when she was 5, which incidentally are the ages they were when the molestations took place, indicating to me, that they were made to feel like it was at least partially their fault.

I'd never put 2 and 2 together before with this perspective. Those poor girls. 

[floridamom]

Apparently Anna has assigned Mason to Meredith. Mason is her buddy now...not her brother. She's way too young for anything like that. Poor Mackynzie. She's the old lady of the bunch and I'm sure she's responsible for the other 4 most of the time.

[MargeGunderson]

18 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Sounds like semi-bullshit. This would have been between Josh and the “elders”. I can believe Josh was pressured with an idle threat, I don’t believe the victims were every actually at risk of a head shaving, and I can’t believe that anyone privy to these sort of shenanigans would have leaked it. 

Apparently Josh was forced to confess to his “sins” before the church, not just the elders, so it was common knowledge among at least the congregation. Probably not the details but enough to know that he deserved a shaved head as punishment. Given what Gothard and followers has written that very much puts at least part of the blame on women for, well, everything really, it doesn’t stretch the imagination that they would blame (at least) the non-relative female for having a role in Josh’s “temptation.” 

[mimionthebeach]

11 hours ago, kalamac said:

I could be remembering this wrong, so anyone who knows better, feel free to correct this, but I believe Jinger has said that she knew she was sinner when she was 8, and Joy has said when she was 5, which incidentally are the ages they were when the molestations took place, indicating to me, that they were made to feel like it was at least partially their fault.

When Jinger broke down during her speech at Jessa's rehearsal dinner and hinted at her self-loathing, I immediately connected it to her "sin" of being abused. Jill and Jessa may have been fine* with their "asleep and over the clothes" but Jinger was left feeling unworthy of love. 

 

*Just taking them at their interview word. Not saying they weren't coached in the party line. 

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

Apparently Josh was forced to confess to his “sins” before the church, not just the elders, so it was common knowledge among at least the congregation. Probably not the details but enough to know that he deserved a shaved head as punishment. Given what Gothard and followers has written that very much puts at least part of the blame on women for, well, everything really, it doesn’t stretch the imagination that they would blame (at least) the non-relative female for having a role in Josh’s “temptation.” 

Yes, as per "Alice," the one who got the sex abuse rumors started online all those years ago, that's exactly what happened, and that's how she even knew about it all to begin with. Josh had to stand before the entire congregation to confess, and then the girls had to stand up in front of everyone and publicly forgive him.

[SMama]

Boob and Mullet are sick fucks for making their daughters, the victims, be humiliated and revictimized. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by SMama
The victims are not humid, they are humiliated ?

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Boob and Mullet are sick fucks for making their daughters, the victims, be humid and revictimized. 

Another reason they shouldn't be allowed on the show. EVER

Edited August 24, 2018 by MsJamieDornan

[MargeGunderson]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

Yes, as per "Alice," the one who got the sex abuse rumors started online all those years ago, that's exactly what happened, and that's how she even knew about it all to begin with. Josh had to stand before the entire congregation to confess, and then the girls had to stand up in front of everyone and publicly forgive him.

Oh, I forgot that part, or perhaps white-hot anger burned it out of my memory. That is utterly despicable. Those girls were victimized by their parents as well as Josh.

ETA: Jim Bob and Michelle are going to have some answering to do when judgment days rolls around. Karma’s a bitch.

Edited August 24, 2018 by MargeGunderson

[farmgal4]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:42 AM, Snow Fairy said:

Just saw this on Pickles

. Also, many know about Josh getting his head shaved at 17 as punishment for his continued sins. It was done at the Duggars' home church by church elders including Jim Bob. Josh resisted the punishment and they told him that if he didn't go through with it they would also shave the head of the girl (not his sister) he abused. The church apparently partly blamed her for being abused.

That's it for now...At least this information clears up the shaved head incident.

 

Are also his sisters blamed for being abused? Probably, and that's so sad

That’s some of the most fucked up shit I’ve ever heard of.  Godly, my ass. ?

6 hours ago, mimionthebeach said:

When Jinger broke down during her speech at Jessa's rehearsal dinner and hinted at her self-loathing, I immediately connected it to her "sin" of being abused. Jill and Jessa may have been fine* with their "asleep and over the clothes" but Jinger was left feeling unworthy of love. 

 

*Just taking them at their interview word. Not saying they weren't coached in the party line. 

Which is why Jeremy got her the hell away from there ASAP.  I wonder how much deep-seated hatred Jeremy has for Josh AND Boob?

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

.  I wonder how much deep-seated hatred Jeremy has for Josh AND Boob?

Not as much as the love I think that he has for her. She has been taken away from the scene of the crime. She clearly looks to be in love and seems to feel better about herself as evidenced by how much nicer she is dressing and all the new things that she is trying in life. I hope through their shared love that she can overcome any self doubt and guilt from what her brother perpetuated and to some extent what JB and Michelle allowed to happen. (As soon as they found out Josh should have been banished and never allowed back in or near his other siblings ever again. Harsh yes, but you protect your children no matter how hard it is on Josh).

Edited August 24, 2018 by Mindthinkr
Forget to close the parentheses.

[Annb67]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

Not as much as the love I think that he has for her. She has been taken away from the scene of the crime. She clearly looks to be in love and seems to feel better about herself as evidenced by how much nicer she is dressing and all the new things that she is trying in life. I hope through their shared love that she can overcome any self doubt and guilt from what her brother perpetuated and to some extent what JB and Michelle allowed to happen. (As soon as they found out Josh should have been banished and never allowed back in or near his other siblings ever again. Harsh yes, but you protect your children no matter how hard it is on Josh. 

Come to think of it, I dont think I have ever seen Jeremy and smug interact nor, unlike jill and her idiot husband, have pictures with them together. Another reason I like Jeremy. I hope we never see Smug or SmugAnna near Felicity.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Annb67

[ThinkerBell]

On 23/08/2018 at 8:07 PM, kalamac said:

I could be remembering this wrong, so anyone who knows better, feel free to correct this, but I believe Jinger has said that she knew she was sinner when she was 8, and Joy has said when she was 5, which incidentally are the ages they were when the molestations took place, indicating to me, that they were made to feel like it was at least partially their fault.

Josh's victims were likely talked out of their authentic feelings about what happened in order to protect Prince Duggar, and then told that good Fundie girls forgive and forget. When the details of Josh's behaviour surfaced, I ended up with night terrors, recalling in my sleep my own repressed experience of childhood trauma. My heart breaks for Josh's victims because they deserve so much better. No credible therapist would ever condone or agree with the way this was handled.

Edited August 25, 2018 by ThinkerBell

[nightmeri]

Riddle me this: if Josh confessed in front of an entire congregation why was it kept secret for so long after they became famous? Is it because it was a home church of a few people? Is it because most of the congregation ( according to Jilly muffin) experienced similar happenings in their own homes? Is it showing an actual Christian practice of not gossiping or turning against your brother? Why was Josh protected by EVERYONE?

[Zella]

1 hour ago, nightmeri said:

Riddle me this: if Josh confessed in front of an entire congregation why was it kept secret for so long after they became famous? Is it because it was a home church of a few people? Is it because most of the congregation ( according to Jilly muffin) experienced similar happenings in their own homes? Is it showing an actual Christian practice of not gossiping or turning against your brother? Why was Josh protected by EVERYONE?

I have never understood this either, but I have noticed this trend with many other folks of similar beliefs that I have dealt with over admittedly more minor issues. The thinking seems to be that an admission or acknowledgment of it confirms other people's negative assumptions/stereotypes, so it's better to be loyal to the like-minded people and pretend it didn't happen. I think a lot of them operate under a persecution complex, which makes them sensitive to any criticism, no matter how valid, and that further reinforces a sense of groupthink and prioritizes protecting the group over the individuals who have been wronged.  

I was personally really shocked by the number of Christians I knew who were not fundamentalists who immediately jumped to the Duggars' defense in the wake of the Josh molestation scandal. I had read all the released police reports and basically lectured them on what went down. Afterward, all of them were repulsed and sheepishly admitted that they had just assumed people were picking on the Duggars because they were "Christian." Come to find out, these folks had no idea that their personal beliefs and the Duggars' didn't align at all. Edited to also add that they were unaware of what Josh had actually done. They just had knee-jerk reactions, sympathies, and assumptions. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Zella