Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Happyfatchick]

Unless you're raised to be Quiverfull, I think it takes considerably more than seeing the Duggars on TV to embrace the Quiverfull lifestyle. It's not like these girls are going to have 19 kids at once, and I think having even one child will dispel any romantic notions these girls may have had about very large families.

i don't think it's going to sway a NONquiver into BEING quiverful, no. Absolutely not. What it DOES is expose girls already in the movement (by family orientation) to believe life is a fairy tale, and that if they stay on their happy trail, there's a prince and a rosey-posie life ahead for them as well. I think it helps cement the path they are already on. The vast majority of comments on IG pics seem to come from very young teens following the Duggs with one hand, holding a very large iced koolaid in the other. Wow, they get so defensive when negative comments slide thru! They think people are sadly misguided who don't believe that hot mess. It really bothers me, the influence this family has managed to capture and build upon.

Remember, my own flesh and blood daughter has bought into this lifestyle. Her refusal to even consider rational thought is the single most frustrating thing in my LIFE at the moment.

[SometimesBites]

i don't think it's going to sway a NONquiver into BEING quiverful, no. Absolutely not. What it DOES is expose girls already in the movement (by family orientation) to believe life is a fairy tale, and that if they stay on their happy trail, there's a prince and a rosey-posie life ahead for them as well. I think it helps cement the path they are already on. The vast majority of comments on IG pics seem to come from very young teens following the Duggs with one hand, holding a very large iced koolaid in the other. Wow, they get so defensive when negative comments slide thru! They think people are sadly misguided who don't believe that hot mess. It really bothers me, the influence this family has managed to capture and build upon.

Remember, my own flesh and blood daughter has bought into this lifestyle. Her refusal to even consider rational thought is the single most frustrating thing in my LIFE at the moment.

I totally agree. And I have no doubt whatsoever that there are plenty people who populate the fringes of the quiverfull belief who are ripe for the influence, and just need a little extra dose of Koolaid to put them square in the middle of Kamp Koo-Koo.

[becca3891]

Anna's mother had eight children and very, very, very few women maintain fertility to age 46.  I still think 8 children is too many but it's a far cry from 19. 

 

The Quiverfull women I have known generally had several babies into their 40s. No, it doesn't always happen, but easily could. Anna's only been at it for 6 years and has 4 children. My point is that she's on track to exceed the 8 her own mother had. Unless infertility suddenly sets in, she'll have 8 by the time she's in her early 30s.

 

I never bought the TLC story or however it started about their supposed investments and cell tower.    The family was shoved inside a tiny home with one toilet and feeding babies out of a can.

             In most of the TLC shows or some others often we never see people actually working or their job doesn't actually exist.   What they claim to do for a living, is often just a claim or they quit their jobs after the TLC money starts rolling in.

I know their home was tiny but it wasn't the squalor it could have been. And if they can be believed, in their first documentary they claimed they were spending $2000 a month on groceries. That's an entire modest salary right there. Even if that number was exaggerated, it still was many thousands each year, and unlike some Quiverfill families, they appeared to be keeping up with doctor and dentist visits. Besides, by all accounts, Boob was using huge amounts of money for his stupid campaigns. I do believe the real estate and cell tower stories but I'm not saying it made them rich, just better off than some Quiverfull families.

[Defrauder]

Josh always sounds like he's doing a bad impression of Jim Bob.

It would be great if he was doing that to make fun of him but I guess that would be too good to be true.

[Cherrio]

The Quiverfull women I have known generally had several babies into their 40s. No, it doesn't always happen, but easily could. Anna's only been at it for 6 years and has 4 children. My point is that she's on track to exceed the 8 her own mother had. Unless infertility suddenly sets in, she'll have 8 by the time she's in her early 30s.

 

I know their home was tiny but it wasn't the squalor it could have been. And if they can be believed, in their first documentary they claimed they were spending $2000 a month on groceries. That's an entire modest salary right there. Even if that number was exaggerated, it still was many thousands each year, and unlike some Quiverfill families, they appeared to be keeping up with doctor and dentist visits. Besides, by all accounts, Boob was using huge amounts of money for his stupid campaigns. I do believe the real estate and cell tower stories but I'm not saying it made them rich, just better off than some Quiverfull families.

I agree that compared to others they were better off, but I think whatever money Jim Bob made, he worked for his parents, was never successful on his own.

             I also would not believe they were spending that much on groceries.    As recent as this season, Josie was served Ramen noodles.   

        Of course I always viewed them as fakes and freaks from the beginning.

[GeeGolly]

Maybe it's just me but I get the feeling that Josh doesn't like Jim Bob.  I haven't seen a lot of episodes but some of the quotes I've read, from when Josh was younger, and a couple of old episodes I saw it just feels like there's some resentment there.  I don't get that feeling with Josh toward Michelle.  

I noticed that too. I think that Josh was born with some common sense, which is something I believe JB lacks. Way back when they were building the TTH, a young Josh mentioned that at different steps in the construction he would suggest to JB that "maybe we should get professional help now". JB of course would refuse. There have been more than a few eye roll-ish moments for Josh where JB is concerned, and often I would find myself feeling similarly.

[Churchhoney]

I think John David was fortunate that his worthless education wasn't a problem with his vocational interests.

 

True. But I think that Jim Bob is probably still going to constitute a problem if actually flying for a living plays a part in John David's ambitions. And his education would likely also be a problem if he had really serious flying ambitions, although I imagine he knows enough not to aim too high.

 

Even to get a job as a private pilot for an individual or a company, he'll have to be able to fly a multi-engine plane. And he won't be able to do that unless JB is willing to pony up the cash to get him a lot of flight hours in non-Duggar aircraft, since theirs are single engine. I have had a hard time seeing Jim Bob doing that at any time, frankly, since I'm sure JB knows that if one of his kids actually worked as a pilot for someone else, that person wouldn't be master of his own time -- i.e., Jim Bob wouldn't be master of his time. Now, though, with the recent felling of the main money tree, I would gauge JB as probably being even less likely to pay for that. And I don't know that JD can afford it on his own.

 

Even if JD does get the training to fly a multi-engine plane, though, his shot at working for an actual airline or air transport company, even small ones, is extremely slim, I expect. There are a lot of ex-military pilots out there, as well as other people with the requisite training, and most of these people have college degrees and more.  And in what seems to be very much an employer's market, JD's homeschooled-and-nothing-beyond self would probably get shoved pretty near the back of the line, even though the education probably isn't really required to do the job.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Ilovemylabs]

I wouldn't go up to him, but I'd for sure talk (in my usual, loud noisy voice) about the guy that molested all of his sisters, how he did a little construction and how his parents covered it all up and continue to do so and how his entire family lies for him. I'd make sure to mention the ages of his siblings too. The monster shouldn't feel comfortable anywhere.

Of course, I'd keep any little kid close to me.

I would not do this.  Leave them in peace.  They are best forgotten.

[kokapetl]

True. But I think that Jim Bob is probably still going to constitute a problem if actually flying for a living plays a part in John David's ambitions. And his education would likely also be a problem if he had really serious flying ambitions, although I imagine he knows enough not to aim too high.

Even to get a job as a private pilot for an individual or a company, he'll have to be able to fly a multi-engine plane. And he won't be able to do that unless JB is willing to pony up the cash to get him a lot of flight hours in non-Duggar aircraft, since theirs are single engine. I have had a hard time seeing Jim Bob doing that at any time, frankly, since I'm sure JB knows that if one of his kids actually worked as a pilot for someone else, that person wouldn't be master of his own time -- i.e., Jim Bob wouldn't be master of his time. Now, though, with the recent felling of the main money tree, I would gauge JB as probably being even less likely to pay for that. And I don't know that JD can afford it on his own.

Even if JD does get the training to fly a multi-engine plane, though, his shot at working for an actual airline or air transport company, even small ones, is extremely slim, I expect. There are a lot of ex-military pilots out there, as well as other people with the requisite training, and most of these people have college degrees and more. And in what seems to be very much an employer's market, JD's homeschooled-and-nothing-beyond self would probably get shoved pretty near the back of the line, even though the education probably isn't really required to do the job.

Well his education means he won't become a pilot through becoming a military officer, but I'm sure he can afford to pay for a multi engine rating training etc. He's clearly not spending his earnings on clothes or women or accommodation. If he can pay, he can get the qualifications to fly a passenger transport plane.

[kokapetl]

i don't think it's going to sway a NONquiver into BEING quiverful, no. Absolutely not. What it DOES is expose girls already in the movement (by family orientation) to believe life is a fairy tale, and that if they stay on their happy trail, there's a prince and a rosey-posie life ahead for them as well. I think it helps cement the path they are already on. The vast majority of comments on IG pics seem to come from very young teens following the Duggs with one hand, holding a very large iced koolaid in the other. Wow, they get so defensive when negative comments slide thru! They think people are sadly misguided who don't believe that hot mess. It really bothers me, the influence this family has managed to capture and build upon.

Remember, my own flesh and blood daughter has bought into this lifestyle. Her refusal to even consider rational thought is the single most frustrating thing in my LIFE at the moment.

Wouldn't the girls from Quiverful families have first hand experience of the Quiverful reality? Do most Quiverful families have cable TV? My understanding of the Duggars is that Gothard adherents aren't particularly fond of them and the attention they've drawn to the movement.

[Churchhoney]

Well his education means he won't become a pilot through becoming a military officer, but I'm sure he can afford to pay for a multi engine rating training etc. He's clearly not spending his earnings on clothes or women or accommodation. If he can pay, he can get the qualifications to fly a passenger transport plane.

 

I'm going to respond to this over in the "other Duggars" thread. Just realized we're in the wrong place. ..

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I don't know if the show will convince people to have 12-19 kids, but I think it can influence people to have more than they probably should (meaning more than they can support and/or give each enough attention/more than they can emotionally handle). My sister-in-law is Baptist and has six kids from age 17 down to 8. She's a teacher and her husband is always working off and on - part-time jobs at retail stores, etc., then gets fired/quits and tries his hardest not to work until my sister-in-law forces him to go get a job again. Raising six kids on the salary of an elementary teacher at a Christian private school (that pays less than the public schools, even though they do give her kids free tuition) & the sometimes minimum wage, part time salary of her husband, she barely has enough money to keep a roof over their heads (8 of them in a small 3 bedroom house), a vehicle running, gas, utilities, food, etc. If one kid wants to play a sport or do an activity with a fee, they can't because she can't afford for kids each do an activity. Plus, there's the trouble of getting the kids to different places when they need to be there for activities at the same time (they only have one vehicle and public transportation is virtually non-existent). Three of her kids are teenage boys who like many boys their age, eat a lot and want to eat often. Since she's on such a limited budget, she keeps a lock on her pantry and fridge so the boys don't eat food in the night or when she's not home. Otherwise, one or more of them might eat so much that they'll run out of food and won't be able to get more until she's paid again. SIL doesn't really have enough time between work, running a household, driving everyone where they need to go, etc. to spend that much time with her kids (although I'm sure she's able to spend more time than the Duggars do with theirs).

A few years ago, my SIL got pregnant again. The pregnancy wasn't viable and she essentially waited out for a miscarriage (cause you know, getting an abortion would have been a sin). When we found out she was pregnant we were all shocked because she struggles so much with six kids. She is complaining about not being able to do this or buy that (often times as a way to ask for someone else to pay for whatever it is) since she has six kids (which she says in her best martyr voice). My mother-in-law finally asked her after she did this once: "Well, whose fault is that?" Of course, the answer was that the kids are blessings, blah blah. So she was going to keep the would be 7th that she miscarried & admitted to us they hadn't been using birth control (because blessings, Jesus, blah blah). I think that people like her may not go all out and try to have 19 kids or a kid every year, but the Duggars do encourage them to have more "blessings" than they probably can afford/handle.

I have one child and I know that the MAX I could ever handle is two. I know myself, my own limits, and what would be too much and drive me nuts. I also know what hubby and I make every month and what our bills are. (I also have worries about overpopulation & personally don't want to have more than "replacement value" for that reason.)

Point being that I think some people (mostly conservative Christians who see children more as "blessings" than actual PEOPLE who need love, attention, your time, food, education, housing, clothes, etc) see the Duggars on TV & are encouraged to have more kids than they can probably handle, even if that number is not as high as 12 or 19.....because looked how blessed the Duggars are and Jesus loves them and babies, etc...if children are blessings then the Duggars have been super-duper-blessed, right?

I'm really hoping that Josh remembers what life was like pre-TLC and Anna remembers how hard it was for her family with "only" 8. I hope they've realized the money train for Josh has likely ended and JimBob will eventually have 18 other families to support one day, and realize a smaller number (maybe 4) is enough.

Edited August 11, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[bigskygirl]

Okay, lets remember this is the Josh and Anna thread. It is not the JD being able to be a pilot debate, should or should the show be canceled, the show is or is not a bad example to people who want to have numerous children, or Josh blames his parents for his actions because he was not allowed to date and have a semi-normal childhood. If you want to debate these issues until the hot, tired cows come home then I suggest going into the big internet world and find another forum. Once again, mods will hide or will ask you to edit your post for going off topic. Thank you.

[cmr2014]

Maybe it's just me but I get the feeling that Josh doesn't like Jim Bob.  I haven't seen a lot of episodes but some of the quotes I've read, from when Josh was younger, and a couple of old episodes I saw it just feels like there's some resentment there.  I don't get that feeling with Josh toward Michelle.  

 

I always got the impression that Josh kind of thought he was a doofus. I think that he learned a lot when JB was dragging him around Little Rock, and listened to the way people talked to his father. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was present at a number of meetings where various people tried to convince him to do (or not do) various things, and JB ignored them ("don't make a primary bid against a sitting senator," "don't try to build a house by yourself without the help of professionals," etc.).

 

I also think that JB is aggressive and hyper-competitive with his male children, and I doubt that that builds strong fater/son bonds.

[kokapetl]

I always got the impression that Josh kind of thought he was a doofus. I think that he learned a lot when JB was dragging him around Little Rock, and listened to the way people talked to his father. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was present at a number of meetings where various people tried to convince him to do (or not do) various things, and JB ignored them ("don't make a primary bid against a sitting senator," "don't try to build a house by yourself without the help of professionals," etc.).

I also think that JB is aggressive and hyper-competitive with his male children, and I doubt that that builds strong fater/son bonds.

I think Josh was 16 in their first TV special, his childhood was relatively deprived. By the time TLC swooped in and finished the TTH, and gave the family a TV series with a regular paycheck, Josh was sort of expected to support himself and make it on his own (for various reasons), but JimBob had crippled Josh and deprived him of the skills to do that, with a subpar education in order to keep him reliant on Daddy.

[Wellfleet]

Maybe it's just me but I get the feeling that Josh doesn't like Jim Bob.  I haven't seen a lot of episodes but some of the quotes I've read, from when Josh was younger, and a couple of old episodes I saw it just feels like there's some resentment there.  I don't get that feeling with Josh toward Michelle.  

 

This is definitely possible. I'm sure Boob was strict, demanding, bossy from the beginning.  The supreme, ruling Man-Father. And as my Dad always said, the first kid is like the first pancake of the batch - a little squirelly around the edges. You try all kinds of things with the first one, because you basically don't know what you're doing. I doubt anyone could offer Boob any parenting advice either. In addition, could just be that old favorite the Oedipus complex going on here too.

[Micks Picks]

Josh and Boob have shown to be in competition on many, many episodes.  Remember all the weight losing and strength building episodes with the trainer?  It's always been a competition with them.  I've seen situations where the father feels less of a man as he watches the son develop physically into a man.  It doesn't seem to be uncommon.  There seems to be more tension and almost a manic phase of it in their case.  The dad realizes he is on the downside now and can't quit let the punk kid outdo him in anything.  At least that's the way they think, rather the pride of the develop of the son.

[Albanyguy]

I think that's very true, and I also think that Jim Bob is jealous of Josh because Josh is the only one of her children that Michelle really loves.

[CarolMK]

I have to wonder what type of job Jim Bob is going to find for Josh now. There will definitely be something coming up in the new few months. I don't think it will be politics or running another car lot, but whatever it is, I'll bet Jim Bob has his hands in it.

Also, I'm wondering if Anna is going to continue to want as many kids as possible now that she has 4 kids ages 6 and under. Especially with homeschooling, you literally never get any kind of break from kids all day and all night long. Hopefully she's not headed for a breakdown. And if Josh really doesn't want that many kids, he should tell Anna and do something about it. Nobody is going to care at this point if they don't have 19 kids, after all, that was their parent's claim to fame. And I believe that Anna's mother didn't get married until she was about 25 or 26, she's older than Anna's dad and probably why she "only" had 8 children. 

[BitterApple]

I can't imagine trying to homeschool two kids with a toddler running around and a breastfeeding infant. Anna is going to have a laundry room breakdown of her very own if she doesn't slow her roll.

[Happyfatchick]

I believe that Anna's mother didn't get married until she was about 25 or 26, she's older than Anna's dad and probably why she "only" had 8 children.

I'm not sure Anna's mother's age was the only factor in her only having 8 'lil blessings.

[Defrauder]

If Josh and Anna live close enough to the compound it's possible that JB and Mechelle will purpose the lost girls into becoming sister mom's to Anna' kids eventually. That could be the plan.  And Mac is almost old enough to take on all of the parenting responsibilities for at least one of the younger Ms, sarcasm of course.

[3 is enough]

So has anyone seen photographic proof that Josh and Anna attended the wedding this weekend?  I have seen no evidence that they were there.

[BitterApple]

So has anyone seen photographic proof that Josh and Anna attended the wedding this weekend?  I have seen no evidence that they were there.

 

Yes, they were there. Whitney Bates has a picture of her and Anna on her Instagram. I'm guessing not too many of the guests were eager to take pictures with the guy who molested five girls, so that's probably why there's no pictures of the Smuggars on anyone's social media.

Edited August 17, 2015 by BitterApple

[Joe Jitsu913]

Yes, they were there. Whitney Bates has a picture of her and Anna on her Instagram. I'm guessing not too many of the guests were eager to take pictures with the guy who molested five girls, so that's probably why there's no pictures of the Smuggars on anyone's social media.

You know that must be killing Smuggar. He fancies himself as a 'celebrity/political pundit'.

[Fuzzysox]

Didn't Boob set up Boob Jr. in some kind of billing service?  I have a strong feeling that Josh won't be out in public much and will start multiple at home businesses.

[ChocolateAddict]

IRRC in the moving special, Boob said that it was good to have so much land so that the kids could potentially build their own houses and stay close. It wouldn't surprise me if Boob pushed all his kids to live nearby so that he and J'Chelle can enjoy all their special, precious grandbabies (read: never allow any of their children to actually enter the real world).

I don't think that Josh and Anna will move so far away again, Josh had his one shot at a normal existence. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by ChocolateAddict

[NewDigs]

I'm not certain that Josh will ever be normal.

[Sew Sumi]

This collage is from the rehearsal dinner. Whitney wore a coral dress to the wedding. I almost didn't recognize Anna without the snaggletooth. 

 

https://instagram.com/p/6dFEc0R8Tg/?taken-by=zachnwhitbates

[msblossom]

I didn't recognize her either! I figured you meant another Anna??, and just as I was starting to click off the photo, I spotted her, she looks completely different. Did she get dental work too? Her hair and face are almost unrecognizable.

Duggars are obsessed with dentistry.

Edited August 18, 2015 by msblossom

[Absolom]

She had Invisalign a couple of years ago or maybe even more now. 

 

I think it's part of what we're talking about the bad photographs coming out of the wedding in that she doesn't really look like herself.  I'm not sure if her face is puffier than usual post-birth or it's just a bad angle.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Absolom

[BitterApple]

I believe Anna had Invisalign. Priscilla had braces as well. My guess is the Kellers couldn't afford orthodontic work, so the girls weren't able to have their teeth corrected until they were married.

I think she looks so different because her face is fuller due to baby weight.

[drafan]

  I also think that Josh naming his kids with the letter M is a big Fuck you to JBob and a nod to Michelle.

 

I take that more as a sign that they are going to have a gazillion kids. There are a boatload of names that begin with M. Mark my words, Anna will procreate until her uterus falls into her Coach bag.

 

When one of the Jkids picks Q, X, or Z as their theme letter, it will be a sign that they aren't going to overpopulate. Lets see who does it........

[Zanzibar]

When one of the Jkids picks Q, X, or Z as their theme letter, it will be a sign that they aren't going to overpopulate. Lets see who does it........

 

Don't be so sure; there may not be a lot of Z names, but that doesn't mean people won't make them up.  I just saw today that a local family has 5 children, all with names starting with Z.  I only know three of the names: Zaelin, Zoren and Zevon.

[Aja]

I could see this happening. I could even see the Duggar logic in honoring mama and daddy by naming the first two Zichelle and Zim Zob. 

[kokapetl]

Don't be so sure; there may not be a lot of Z names, but that doesn't mean people won't make them up. I just saw today that a local family has 5 children, all with names starting with Z. I only know three of the names: Zaelin, Zoren and Zevon.

Zsuzsanna

[JoanArc]

I could see this happening. I could even see the Duggar logic in honoring mama and daddy by naming the first two Zichelle and Zim Zob. 

or X. Xanax in honor of Michelle.

[Cherrio]

or X. Xanax in honor of Michelle.

 

Zsuzsanna

They could always add in some history and name a baby what one of the Manson women did.     Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz

[Ljohnson1987]

 i hope that Smugs and Anna stop having babies. I cannot imagine what this last pregnancy did to Anna. She was under so much stress.

[BitterApple]

i hope that Smugs and Anna stop having babies. I cannot imagine what this last pregnancy did to Anna. She was under so much stress.

As much as everyone said the right things and posted the obligatory pictures with baby Meredith, you could see the tension. Despite the Duggars' claims, it's hard not to believe the family dynamics haven't been permanently altered by the scandal. To make matters worse the baby was born on the day the show was cancelled. I don't think there was a lot of excitement and joy surrounding this one, so maybe that will bring Anna a dose of reality.

[Ljohnson1987]

Poor Anna. The show cancellation overshadowed the birth of her child. It shows just how money hungry the Duggars' are. Good luck finding jobs like the rest of us.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Ljohnson1987

[CofCinci]

She got that snaggletooth fixed in the last few weeks, so things can't be that bad.

[kokapetl]

She got that snaggletooth fixed in the last few weeks, so things can't be that bad.

Paid for with humiliation

[flyingdi]

Josie brings home her one and only child, Ziggy Stardust Bates. SOn of Josie Duggar and Jeb Bates.

[JoanArc]

 

She got that snaggletooth fixed in the last few weeks, so things can't be that bad.

She's had braces for a long time now.

[JoanArc]

 

So has anyone seen photographic proof that Josh and Anna attended the wedding this weekend?  I have seen no evidence that they were there.

I'm 99% sure that's them in the background of the seewalds video. Go to their blog and look at the congrats video. They kiss too.

[CofCinci]

She's had braces for a long time now.

Braces did not treat that snaggletooth. It disappeared within last few weeks.

[JoanArc]

Braces did not treat that snaggletooth. It disappeared within last few weeks.

So she had a baby and went out and immediately got dental work? They're really pissing out that severance.

[SoSueMe]

Hmmm. There's Anna but I'm not finding Josh. That isn't him next to JB is it? And Anna almost looks like she was photoshopped in.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/desperate-duggars-pitch-tlc-new-show-where-they-counsel-sex-abuse-victims-report/comments/

[Joe Jitsu913]

Hmmm. There's Anna but I'm not finding Josh. That isn't him next to JB is it? And Anna almost looks like she was photoshopped in.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/desperate-duggars-pitch-tlc-new-show-where-they-counsel-sex-abuse-victims-report/comments/

That's Amy's fiance.