Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[QuinnInND]

I think she did a great job making that bed. Now having said this, it would be safer to get a store bought bunk bed set. You can get them with the bottom one a double bed size. That wasn't pressure treated lumber. It will warp as time goes by. And since I didn't see her sand it or seal it, it will be splinter city. That mattress on the top isn't for a bunk bed. They have special bunky mattresses for the top. And as a previous poster said, it needs slats, not just the plywood. And why are all 3 in the same room? Also, IMO, those kids are way too young for bunk beds. It's an accident looking for somewhere to happen. Especially Ivy, who wants to keep up with her brothers.  And the bottom mattress on the floor isn't good. A proper set would have it on a frame. 

On 1/17/2021 at 4:10 PM, Albanyguy said:

Nothing like an old wooden door with paint peeling and flaking off it to give a toddler like Ivy lead poisoning.

There hasn't been lead paint since the 70s. But it's not attractive. And what do they have against a proper mattress frame?? 

[Madtown]

41 minutes ago, not you again said:

My thoughts are:  that's unfinished wood in a child's bedroom?  It's not even sanded, is it? 

 

She did sand. Not sure if it was everything. She commented that she sanded and rounded the edges. I didn't see her do any sealing though. I thought maybe she would stain it or something. I don't think it's wise to just leave it untreated.

 

1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

so they are moving all three kids into that room since the toddler bed is still there? #4 is probably on the way.....

the upper bunk needs slats across under the mattress, not just the plywood......

As soon as I saw the toddler bed, I too wondered if all 3 were sleeping in there. Does make you wonder if number 4 is on the way.

Jessa said something about not having steps because she didn't want Ivy climbing up top. Well, you can see in the video that she was climbing on the first slat. If she is sleeping in there, I would be terrrified she would wake up in the middle of the night and try to climb that and fall.

I giver her some props for making it herself as Ben was inside with Ivy, but so many other options on a better way to make that. I just don't think it's safe.

[farmgal4]

1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

so they are moving all three kids into that room since the toddler bed is still there? #4 is probably on the way.....

the upper bunk needs slats across under the mattress, not just the plywood......

That’s what I’m thinking, she’s pregnant again.  In the video Jessa adjusted her clothing, and I briefly saw what might be a baby bump.  They need to just bite the bullet and buy a bigger house.  

[crazy8s]

53 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

 Also, IMO, those kids are way too young for bunk beds.

Spurge is an ok age for a top bunk. Izzy has had a top bunk for a while as well.

We bought the grands a low loft bed/toddler bed under it combo when the oldest was 4. We have video of the 2 yr old at the time trying to drag a dump truck up the ladder the day it was set up. Adults in the room saying no/get off there. so it was all good. but within days they were both flipping off the loft bed onto the toddler bed.

9 yr old still has the low loft bed - it is like a magnet to her just turned 2 little sister. 2yr old has not figured out the ladder for her brother's bunks yet, but oh does she try.

[ginger90]

I’m thinking it’s just the two boys in that room. 

[GeeGolly]

Now that they're actually giving their kids a bedroom, why not put the desk and bookshelves in the parents room? 

Also, I didn't watch the video, I skipped to the end, so I don't know if Jessa addressed this, but she may have a problem with the wide open supports. Other than the ladder, I didn't notice anything across the back or the other side to stabilize the lower part of the frame, other than on the very bottom. They'll be a lot of jumping and playing on the top bunk, putting pressure on the frame, never mind the tendency of 2 x 4s to warp as time passes.

[emmawoodhouse]

No it to mention them jumping on that upper bunk and having that plywood snap. I can't believe she didn't put 2x4 braces below the plywood. And she said she expects this to last for years. I think they'll break it in a month.

[crazy8s]

the funniest part of the video to me was the appearance of a vacuum. who knew they actually owned one??

 

[FizzyPuff]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

That’s what I’m thinking, she’s pregnant again.  In the video Jessa adjusted her clothing, and I briefly saw what might be a baby bump.  They need to just bite the bullet and buy a bigger house.  

Or get a few of her brothers to build an extra room, I think Jessa is very attached to that house being her first home, so I think it’d take a lot for her to move. 

[CalicoKitty]

Maybe she is hoping TLC will swoop in and build her a bigger house.

 

[awaken]

18 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Maybe she is hoping TLC will swoop in and build her a bigger house.

 

That must be it!  Maybe she figures if she holds out long enough, and has enough babies, it’ll be TTH 2.0!  Ivy can wield the power tools while barefoot this time!

[Joan of Argh]

5 hours ago, Madtown said:

She did sand. Not sure if it was everything. She commented that she sanded and rounded the edges. I didn't see her do any sealing though. I thought maybe she would stain it or something. I don't think it's wise to just leave it untreated.

She briefly mentioned that she will putty the screw holes if she decides to paint it.

Sounds like she's planning to do something with it but hasn't decided what.

I agree with others about the plywood under the mattress, it will bow and eventually fall through... I'm wondering if she made it weaker by cutting it into 3 pieces?

[Totally]

Having plywood instead of slats means there won’t be any air around that mattress, it’s going to get manky fast * if it isn’t already

[iwantcookies]

Doesn’t Jim Bob have a warehouse full of furniture for Jessa to pick through?

I agree her brothers should build an addition to the house.

Guess Jim Bob doesn’t want to buy Jessa a new house.

[floridamom]

I don't think that 'bed' has proper supports in the first place. All this is is slats of wood with a skanky mattress on it. I could not believe how dirty and stained that mattress was...box spring too. Who is sleeping in the queen size mattress on the bottom? I won't call this a bed. Why was all that junk underneath the original mattress? Jessa is still a slob and a pig. Why not just go out and BUY a PROPERLY BUILT bunk bed? That would have safety features in it and it would be built properly. How long can Ivy share a bedroom with her brothers? This was a waste of time. They just need a bigger house. What the heck is wrong with Ben? That guy is really miserable.

[ozziemom]

Jessa referred to the queen bed as where guests sleep. What guests? Can you imagine JereMe and Jing visiting and being told “here’s your bed”? 

[Madtown]

19 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

Jessa referred to the queen bed as where guests sleep. What guests? Can you imagine JereMe and Jing visiting and being told “here’s your bed”? 

I missed this part. I just figured that the queen was for Henry. Does that mean he still sleeps in that little toddler bed? Or will he sleep in the queen unitl "guests" come over to stay?

 

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

I don't think that 'bed' has proper supports in the first place. All this is is slats of wood with a skanky mattress on it. I could not believe how dirty and stained that mattress was...box spring too. Who is sleeping in the queen size mattress on the bottom? I won't call this a bed. Why was all that junk underneath the original mattress? Jessa is still a slob and a pig. Why not just go out and BUY a PROPERLY BUILT bunk bed? That would have safety features in it and it would be built properly. How long can Ivy share a bedroom with her brothers? This was a waste of time. They just need a bigger house. What the heck is wrong with Ben? That guy is really miserable.

Exactly! I don't know if she was trying to prove something in building it herself or what. It's just an accident waiting to happen. Don't get me started on the stinkfest that are those mattresses. I don't even want to imagine what that house smells like. Those poor kids and any others born into that family.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

I don't think that 'bed' has proper supports in the first place.

It doesn't. And if they keep letting 3 kids use it as a trampoline it wont last past next week. That video was wrong in so many ways. Sorry Jessa, I'm not impressed.

I think the toddler bed is Henry's, so it's just the 2 boys in that room. Poor Ivy is still stuck in Jessa's room.

[GeeGolly]

When Jessa first showed the boys bedroom, a few months back, she said the toddler bed was Spurgie's. She last minute added that the big bed was Henry's. In the parents' room there was a pallet mattress on the floor. I'm not sure Henry has left his parents' room yet.

If they got rid of the desk and bookshelves they could have left the guest(less) bed and purchase standard bunks. But this is the Duggars.

[Tikichick]

16 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

I think she did a great job making that bed. Now having said this, it would be safer to get a store bought bunk bed set. You can get them with the bottom one a double bed size. That wasn't pressure treated lumber. It will warp as time goes by. And since I didn't see her sand it or seal it, it will be splinter city. That mattress on the top isn't for a bunk bed. They have special bunky mattresses for the top. And as a previous poster said, it needs slats, not just the plywood. And why are all 3 in the same room? Also, IMO, those kids are way too young for bunk beds. It's an accident looking for somewhere to happen. Especially Ivy, who wants to keep up with her brothers.  And the bottom mattress on the floor isn't good. A proper set would have it on a frame. 

There hasn't been lead paint since the 70s. But it's not attractive. And what do they have against a proper mattress frame?? 

My PSA:   Pressure treated lumber cannot and should not be used indoors.  It is treated with chemicals that are considered carcinogens in order to better withstand water and weather in outdoor use only. 

[ouinason]

If plywood can hold up a queen bed under over 300 pounds of adult body and at least 60 pounds of memory foam mattress, and a box spring for 5 or more years, I'm pretty sure it can stand up to a few tiny children.

[Tikichick]

On 1/18/2021 at 1:02 PM, Zella said:

I think it's certainly possible. I've thought for awhile now that Jessa must be pretty bitter that she followed the family playbook, but nobody seems to give a shit compared to Jill sending her kids to public school and Jinger moving out of state. In the past, I used to feel so uncomfortable looking at pictures of the Dillards because it just seemed like the tension in that house radiated out of every image. I get that vibe from the Seewalds now. 

I agree, everything surrounding Jill's household felt like a ticking timebomb for quite a while.  It broke my heart for her kids.  I really noticed the dramatic difference starting with the back to school shopping video -- it was like the bomb squad had snipped the proper wires and the threat was mercifully over.

Jessa has always seemed like she's seething about something, or everything.   @BitterApple may be onto something regarding depression, which is sometimes explained as rage turned inward.   It would have to be difficult to accept that being the most beautiful sister with the most beautiful and gifted children who followed all the rules and stepped out to save the family and the show when the scandal exploded isn't now the undeniable star of the family. 

[QuinnInND]

17 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

My PSA:   Pressure treated lumber cannot and should not be used indoors.  It is treated with chemicals that are considered carcinogens in order to better withstand water and weather in outdoor use only. 

I did not know that. Thank you! 👍

[Tikichick]

18 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Jessa builds a bed for Spurge.

 

Leaving aside all of the disregarded safety considerations, one of the positive aspects is this was likely one of the most intellectually stimulating experiences Spurgeon has been exposed to for quite some time.   Bonus points for children seeing mom engaged in and steering this project, particularly children being stifled in this lifestyle.

Anyone else feel like Ben had objections to this project and was deliberately not participating?

[Tikichick]

14 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

I did not know that. Thank you! 👍

Thank you for taking it in the spirit in which I said it.   Lots of This Old House pounded that in for me and I could have easily made that mistake if they hadn't.   Personally I feel like there should be warning labels, or at least information posted with the lumber in the stores to protect those of us who would go merrily on our way, unaware of the risk we were taking.

[QuinnInND]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Thank you for taking it in the spirit in which I said it.   Lots of This Old House pounded that in for me and I could have easily made that mistake if they hadn't.   Personally I feel like there should be warning labels, or at least information posted with the lumber in the stores to protect those of us who would go merrily on our way, unaware of the risk we were taking.

We watch Mike Holmes all the time. I've learned so much, but I've never heard him say don't use pressure treated lumber inside. Learned something new! Always good. 

 

[MaryAnneSpier]

Why do they have so many books? There's no way Jessa and Ben have read even half of those. They need to get rid of at least one shelf's worth to open up some room in there.  Or better yet, replace the adult books with children's books and games. 

[Joan of Argh]

6 hours ago, floridamom said:

I don't think that 'bed' has proper supports in the first place. All this is is slats of wood with a skanky mattress on it. I could not believe how dirty and stained that mattress was...box spring too. Who is sleeping in the queen size mattress on the bottom? I won't call this a bed. Why was all that junk underneath the original mattress? Jessa is still a slob and a pig. Why not just go out and BUY a PROPERLY BUILT bunk bed? That would have safety features in it and it would be built properly. How long can Ivy share a bedroom with her brothers? This was a waste of time. They just need a bigger house. What the heck is wrong with Ben? That guy is really miserable.

OK I'm not saying she's right but she explained her reason for building her own is because the ones you buy can only accommodate a double sized mattress on the bottom and Jessa has a queen sized mattress on the bottom so she needed to build something herself.

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Why do they have so many books? There's no way Jessa and Ben have read even half of those. They need to get rid of at least one shelf's worth to open up some room in there.  Or better yet, replace the adult books with children's books and games. 

While we are concerned with safety - I hope those book shelves are anchored to the wall.  They would be very dangerous if pulled over.

[beckie]

Jessa said there wasn't going to be a ladder so that Ivy couldn't get up there, yet in the next scene Ivy is up there jumping on the bed. Clearly she doesn't mean it and didn't care that Ivy was up there. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by beckie

[BigBingerBro]

2 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

OK I'm not saying she's right but she explained her reason for building her own is because the ones you buy can only accommodate a double sized mattress on the bottom and Jessa has a queen sized mattress on the bottom so she needed to build something herself.

I work in Furniture and there are bunks with queen on the bottom and other various combinations.  Usually they are a bit pricey though.  I can't fault her for doing it herself as I never could, but that excuse doesn't hold water.

[ouinason]

From what I understood, there ARE queen bottom bunks, but they are limited in style and expensive, so instead of getting something she didn't really like, she decided to just build a loft bunk to put over the existing queen.  Which, more power to her.

 

I do think it's beyond stupid to keep Ben's office stuff in the kids' room.

[beckie]

2 hours ago, beckie said:

 

Sorry. Hit the wrong button!

Edited January 20, 2021 by beckie

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, ouinason said:

 

I do think it's beyond stupid to keep Ben's office stuff in the kids' room.

Me too. I feel like Bin is trying to mimic Jeremy with the ridiculous book shelves. The room doesn't feel warm or kid-centered at all.

[Tikichick]

31 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Me too. I feel like Bin is trying to mimic Jeremy with the ridiculous book shelves. The room doesn't feel warm or kid-centered at all.

JESSA:  Aren't they supposed to be dormitories?

In all fairness to Jessa, that is how she was raised.

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, ouinason said:

From what I understood, there ARE queen bottom bunks, but they are limited in style and expensive, so instead of getting something she didn't really like, she decided to just build a loft bunk to put over the existing queen.  Which, more power to her.

 

I do think it's beyond stupid to keep Ben's office stuff in the kids' room.

Part of the expense of the manufactured units no doubt covers conformity with some of the pesky safety requirements about bracing, railing spacing issues, headroom, access to the top bunk, and probably one of the most significant details -- proper length, type and tensile strength of fasteners.  There's no way screws alone pass the safety requirements for a loft or bunk set up where failure resulting in collapse can be fatal to those below. 

As far as not finding the style she wanted -- I can't imagine guest mattress on the floor was in any way preferable to everything she looked at.  

[leighdear]

Jessa looks like hammered crap, her project is going to fall apart and at least one of those greasy kids is going to take a header off that top slab.  And couldn't she even put something over that nasty box spring on the bottom? 

Jeez, they live like hobos.  

I'm going over to Jingers thread to look at the perfect closet full of her daughter's clothes to get rid of the visual stench coming from Jessa's hovel.  

[Joan of Argh]

5 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

I work in Furniture and there are bunks with queen on the bottom and other various combinations.  Usually they are a bit pricey though.  I can't fault her for doing it herself as I never could, but that excuse doesn't hold water.

My mistake...you're correct I watched it again and she does say that queen bed size are available but they're expensive and she couldn't find a design she liked or some such nonsense.

I wish they hadn't let Spurgeon climb over the side and clamor all over it like a monkey as little Ivy watched with her eyes as big as saucers.

They should have used that as a teaching moment and said "No Climbing" over the safety rail period!

[QuinnInND]

1 hour ago, Joan of Argh said:

My mistake...you're correct I watched it again and she does say that queen bed size are available but they're expensive and she couldn't find a design she liked or some such nonsense.

I wish they hadn't let Spurgeon climb over the side and clamor all over it like a monkey as little Ivy watched with her eyes as big as saucers.

They should have used that as a teaching moment and said "No Climbing" over the safety rail period!

As we know, the Duggars aren't big on safety. 

[madpsych78]

11 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Leaving aside all of the disregarded safety considerations, one of the positive aspects is this was likely one of the most intellectually stimulating experiences Spurgeon has been exposed to for quite some time.   Bonus points for children seeing mom engaged in and steering this project, particularly children being stifled in this lifestyle.

Anyone else feel like Ben had objections to this project and was deliberately not participating?

I agree that this was a great modeling experience for the kids, particularly the boys.

I'm curious as to why Ben did not participate more. Perhaps he was just busy, but it seems that in other footage (e.g., the living room camping) it seems like there is very little communication between Jessa and Ben lately. I don't see them doing finance meetings like Jill and Derick do.

[rue721]

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

it seems like there is very little communication between Jessa and Ben lately

Right? I have only seen a couple of her videos, but the vibe between them is really bad. Ben comes off like he straight up hates her!

Kudos to Jessa for taking on such an ambitious project and seeing it through, but I think it's really unsafe. I'm worried for the kids bouncing around on the top bunk, and also worried for whoever is sleeping on that queen bed underneath. Looks like an accident waiting to happen because the bunk isn't properly reinforced.

I think Jessa did this mostly to save money. No idea what their financial situation is like, but Jessa seems like a penny pincher. She went cheap with her wedding, with the house, with basically everything. I think that's fine, but yet another reason why it's sad that she can't just go have a normal career with a paycheck coming her way every two weeks.

And yes, she does seem depressed. Maybe she's just wrung out; she's got three little kids, whenever she's around her husband you can cut the tension with a knife, and no prospects. And oh yeah, maybe she's got covid, too, who knows.

Oh, but one pleasant surprise was when she told the boys to pull their masks over their noses. It was really casual, like she's used to doing that. I know the family isn't socially distancing but between that and the joggers, I'm seeing a faint glimmer of hope that Jessa is slowly slowly finding a way to be more than just her parents' daughter.

[floridamom]

Spurgie is so bored. I feel bad for that kid. He should be in school. I know we have said it here often but it just doesn't 'go away'. Why does Jessa absolutely positively have to have a QUEEN size bed for 'guests' that she never seems to have? Can't two people make it through a couple of nights with a full size bed? That skanky mattress is on the floor! I can't imagine sleeping on top of all that junk that was under the bed. This shows me that she NEVER cleans under the beds IF they are on a frame. I have tile floors and once a week, I pass the floor duster under my bed and LOOK under that to make sure nothing has 'died' under there...and I have a job to go to every day. She surely has the time to do that...at least LOOK under the beds, dear. The time for a larger home as already arrived for the Seewalds. This building project was a waste of time. Jessa looks like shit and Ben is passively angry and unhappy with her and his filthy-house life. He was raised with better standards than that. We saw his parents' house and it looked clean and organized. Jessa also cares little for Ben's allergies as she is just fine with that dusty filthy/smelly shoe box of a house. Ben's parents should be ashamed of themselves for sacrificing their son to the Duggar gods.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 minutes ago, floridamom said:

 Why does Jessa absolutely positively have to have a QUEEN size bed for 'guests' that she never seems to have?

I guess for the same reason that Jill has guest room that no one uses. Wait, I know, they need the room so when their helper sister comes and has to be the maid, she has somewhere to sleep.

[lascuba]

8 hours ago, rue721 said:

Right? I have only seen a couple of her videos, but the vibe between them is really bad. Ben comes off like he straight up hates her!

Kudos to Jessa for taking on such an ambitious project and seeing it through, but I think it's really unsafe. I'm worried for the kids bouncing around on the top bunk, and also worried for whoever is sleeping on that queen bed underneath. Looks like an accident waiting to happen because the bunk isn't properly reinforced.

I think Jessa did this mostly to save money. No idea what their financial situation is like, but Jessa seems like a penny pincher. She went cheap with her wedding, with the house, with basically everything. I think that's fine, but yet another reason why it's sad that she can't just go have a normal career with a paycheck coming her way every two weeks.

And yes, she does seem depressed. Maybe she's just wrung out; she's got three little kids, whenever she's around her husband you can cut the tension with a knife, and no prospects. And oh yeah, maybe she's got covid, too, who knows.

Oh, but one pleasant surprise was when she told the boys to pull their masks over their noses. It was really casual, like she's used to doing that. I know the family isn't socially distancing but between that and the joggers, I'm seeing a faint glimmer of hope that Jessa is slowly slowly finding a way to be more than just her parents' daughter.

I think Ben has long been bitter that the choices he's made haven't led to his hoped for results. I'm sure he married Jessa because he loved her as much as a teenager can truly love anyone, but he most definitely expected the marriage and the show to be a platform for him. When they first married, he'd tag along to all of Jessa's speaking gigs, even the one at a women's conference. He'd be on stage answering questions, and signing autographs. And we all remember his crazed ramblings on instagram. But TLC doesn't allow them to openly preach on camera; then the scandals dried up the speaking gigs; and Jessa wasn't the doting, submissive wife he was promised as a good, fundie male.

Meanwhile, Jessa made the conscious decision to marry someone "laid back" to balance out her bullish personality, a good idea on its face, maybe, but as Ben didn't really want someone with a strong personality, she was left with someone weak and bitter who's angry that he didn't get the bare minimum he expected--a hot wife who worships him.

[SMama]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:00 PM, iwantcookies said:

Doesn’t Jim Bob have a warehouse full of furniture for Jessa to pick through?

Picking up a bunk bed from Boob’s warehouse is not good content for the Gram. Jessa fancies herself an influencer and as lazy as she is she wants followers that will result in sponsorships. 

[Kellyee]

Quote

Can you imagine JereMe and Jing visiting and being told “here’s your bed”? 

Am I the only one who assumes that Jeremy insists on a hotel whenever he has to visit the Duggars in Arkansas? He's snobby and entitled like that.

 

 

 

 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

Am I the only one who assumes that Jeremy insists on a hotel whenever he has to visit the Duggars in Arkansas? He's snobby and entitled like that.

 

 

 

 

I cannot stand Jeremy and do think he's a snobby entitled ass, but I don't blame him on that. I wouldn't want to stay at any of those houses either. I'd rather be beat with a stick than set foot in Jessa's nasty house, let alone sleep there. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Zella

[Future Cat Lady]

2 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

Am I the only one who assumes that Jeremy insists on a hotel whenever he has to visit the Duggars in Arkansas? He's snobby and entitled like that.

 

 

 

 

Can you blame him?

[Kellyee]

Quote

I cannot stand Jeremy and do think he's a snobby entitled ass, but I don't blame him on that. I wouldn't want to stay at any of those houses either. I'd rather be beat with a stick than set foot in Jessa's nasty house, let alone sleep there. 

Her house is fine. I slept on bunks in youth hostels in Europe that were a thousand times worse when I was younger. And if Jeremy wanted high class, he shouldn't have married a country Duggar from Arkansas. Also, Jeremy's not all that himself. 

I also saw people build their own loft beds when I was in a dorm in college. Nobody died. But I also drank water from a garden hose and was driven home from the hospital as a baby without a car seat. So clearly I live on the edge of danger.

 

 

 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

Her house is fine. I slept on bunks in youth hostels in Europe that were a thousand times worse when I was younger. And if Jeremy wanted high class, he shouldn't have married a country Duggar from Arkansas. Also, Jeremy's not all that himself. 

I also saw people build their own loft beds when I was in a dorm in college. Nobody died. But I also drank water from a garden hose and was driven home from the hospital as a baby without a car seat. So clearly I live on the edge of danger.

 

 

 

She has left piles of diapers in her house and admits to just leaving her kids' spit up on bedding and also collected Spurgeon's boogers on her couch. That's disgusting and not at all sanitary or fine. If not wanting to sleep in that makes someone a snob, we have very different definitions of what snobbery entails. 

Also the Duggars are not country, and not everyone who lives in Arkansas is as disgusting as Jessa. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Zella