The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, Mollie said:

While I am an advocate of hospital births over homebirths, the American track record on the safety of hospital births is abysmal.  There is a new study that confirms the U.S. is the most dangerous place in the developed world to give birth.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/deadly-deliveries/2018/07/26/maternal-mortality-rates-preeclampsia-postpartum-hemorrhage-safety/546889002/

This chart shows maternal deaths per 100,000 births.

 

This is, unfortunately, true.  The death rate for women giving birth at home in the US is even higher. There are multiple reasons why women and babies in the US are far more likely to die in childbirth than in the rest of the developed world and we need to all wake up and put a priority on healthy moms and healthy babies.  

[Mollie]

6 hours ago, doodlebug said:

This is, unfortunately, true.  The death rate for women giving birth at home in the US is even higher. There are multiple reasons why women and babies in the US are far more likely to die in childbirth than in the rest of the developed world and we need to all wake up and put a priority on healthy moms and healthy babies.  

It's not just the maternal deaths, but thousands of women become permanently injured by faulty medical care during childbirth in U.S. hospitals.  "Every year in the U.S., more than 50,000 mothers are severely injured during or after childbirth and 700 die."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-most-dangerous-place-to-give-birth-in-developed-world-usa-today-investigation-finds/

[Normades]

1 hour ago, Mollie said:

It's not just the maternal deaths, but thousands of women become permanently injured by faulty medical care during childbirth in U.S. hospitals.  "Every year in the U.S., more than 50,000 mothers are severely injured during or after childbirth and 700 die."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-most-dangerous-place-to-give-birth-in-developed-world-usa-today-investigation-finds/

Those are some scary statistics.  I had no idea the US was doing such a poor job compared to other developed countries.  It's also scary that some people will use that statistic to rationalize a home birth.  In my opinion, even with this data, a mother and baby are MUCH safer in a hospital.  I don't understand where the vilification of hospitals during birth has come from in this country.  I had two children and very healthy pregnancies, however after giving birth I hemorrhaged and almost died on the second one.  Had I not been in a hospital I would not be here.  Even low risk seemingly perfect pregnancies can go sideways.  There are no guarantees, but why wouldn't you want to be in a facility where they can deal with problems if/when they arise.

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 minutes ago, Normades said:

Those are some scary statistics.  I had no idea the US was doing such a poor job compared to other developed countries.  It's also scary that some people will use that statistic to rationalize a home birth.  In my opinion, even with this data, a mother and baby are MUCH safer in a hospital.  I don't understand where the vilification of hospitals during birth has come from in this country.  I had two children and very healthy pregnancies, however after giving birth I hemorrhaged and almost died on the second one.  Had I not been in a hospital I would not be here.  Even low risk seemingly perfect pregnancies can go sideways.  There are no guarantees, but why wouldn't you want to be in a facility where they can deal with problems if/when they arise.

Same story here, though it was with my first. No one had told me how much bleeding I should expect after giving birth, only that there would still be bleeding for some time. I gave birth sometime around 3:30 in the afternoon, and toward about 9:00 in the evening, after everything was more or less quiet for the night, felt I had to get up to change my pad. Sat back down on the bed and immediately had to go change my pad again. After doing this twice more, with more blood every time, it finally (!) occurred to me that this is probably not what they meant, and I called for the nurse. They were rather surprised that I had not passed out before managing to do so.

Same thing happened with my third (and last), except pretty much right after I gave birth, so they were able to catch it right away, but still not before I had to get 3 units of blood.

[louannems]

I've read that a really big reason for the US high maternal death rate is obesity and high blood pressure and high blood sugar.

[Fosca]

And quite possibly lack of prenatal care as well.  But the article also suggests that doctors aren't doing the things they should be doing to help postnatal women, which might lead back to lack of insurance issues.

[Triple P]

On the Jessa and Ben thread, someone commented that we have seen pictures of Jeremy playing with Spurgeon and Henry but none with Israel and Sam. I think part of the reason for this is organic - the Vuolos are closer to the Seewalds than they are to the Dillards because Jinger and Jessa were close growing up and Jessa and Ben became friendly with Jeremy, eventually bringing him into Jinger's life.

On top of that, I think it is plain that Jeremy doesn't like Derick. Remember Jeremy's sermon commenting on unqualified missionaries? Hopefully, they have matured beyond jock vs nerd high school mentality, but I could see that playing into the relationship too. 

Jinger probably thinks that she loves Jill because they are sisters, but I don't think she likes Jill all that much. Jill was the family snitch after all and has no boundaries. Not that any of the Duggars have healthy boundaries, but Jill's seem to be the worst among the older girls - asking Jinger if she is pregnant yet, correcting Jinger when she expressed her desire to live in a city, etc.  

Thinking back to the Instagram posts from about year ago, Jeremy and Jinger seemed uncomfortable with the surprise* visit from Jill and Derick (and JD, who was flying them around).  This year, they all went to the SBC convention and it seems like they met up solely for a photo op to prevent fans/haters from questioning and speculating why they didn't see each other at that time. 

So in my mind it makes sense that Jeremy is closer to Spurgeon and Henry than he would be to Israel and Sam. It is similar to how I am close to kids of my co-worker, who is also a good friend, than I am to other co-worker's kids who I only see during the annual company picnic.

*I'd have to find the posts again, but in my memory, the caption made it seem like the Vuolos had only a few hours' notice of the Dillards' visit. In the photos, the Vuolos looked uncomfortable and the Dillards seemed blissfully unaware. 

[Tabbygirl521]

On 7/20/2018 at 10:13 PM, asuwur said:

I guessing for his somewhat contradictory behavior...meaning it was less than angelic.

My name is Angela and I was often called Angel as a kid. It’s a lot of pressure LOL. 

When my son was in the annoying teenage stage, he swore he was going to name any son he had “Nautica” after his favorite brand and I seriously spent some anguished time thinking of how I was going to be able to prevent that. Fortunately he grew up and his kids have normal names. They are twins, though, so he missed a real opportunity to have a set of something weird like Lexus and Infiniti. 

[SMama]

My daughter played soccer with a Nautica. Every time her parents shouted her name I cringed. 

I really hope Jeremy holds off the rest of the Duggars for a while. Maybe wait until they can make the trip to AR. I wouldn’t want the unwashed masses at my home. JB must be upset the days of showing up in the stink bus, honking that annoying horn are coming to an end.

[Normades]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

I've read that a really big reason for the US high maternal death rate is obesity and high blood pressure and high blood sugar.

 

35 minutes ago, Fosca said:

And quite possibly lack of prenatal care as well.  But the article also suggests that doctors aren't doing the things they should be doing to help postnatal women, which might lead back to lack of insurance issues.

All of this makes sense.  I hate that good doctors sometimes get painted as being uncaring and not wanting the best for their patients.  Statistics alone are misleading.  While I know there are some awful doctors out there, most of them are very hard working people who truly care about patients.  The insurance issues in the country are just depressing.  Such a sad state of affairs that we cannot get good, affordable healthcare for mothers, babies, and everyone else!  

I just hate how people like the Duggars seem to think they know better than healthcare professionals and they in turn encourage others who drink their koolaid to put themselves in dangerous situations.  They would use those statistics to say that having a baby at home is as safe as a hospital, when most of the time they end up at the hospital because of their own hubris.

[Snow Fairy]

45 minutes ago, Fosca said:

And quite possibly lack of prenatal care as well.  But the article also suggests that doctors aren't doing the things they should be doing to help postnatal women, which might lead back to lack of insurance issues.

In my country, pregnant women have an exam and ultrasound made by their gynecologist every 4 weeks in their pregnany. Bloodwork at 12 weeks (and then again later), and then glucose tolerance test at 24 weeks. 

After 36 weeks, women go to hospital where they plan to give birth in. Usually then exams start every week, and include ultrasound and vaginal exam of cervix.

I think this kind of health system catches every problem in early phase. In my first pregnancy I had to be put on bedrest for the last three months because of short cervix. Second pregnancy bleeding and hemathoma, again bedrest.

Mortality of mothers is very very low 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Snow Fairy
poor english

[DkNNy79]

13 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

In my country, pregnant women have an exam and ultrasound made by their gynecologist every 4 weeks in their pregnany. Bloodwork at 12 weeks (and then again later), and then glucose tolerance test at 24 weeks. 

After 36 weeks, women go to hospital where they plan to give birth in. Usually then exams start every week, and include ultrasound and vaginal exam of cervix.

I think this kind of health system catches every problem in early phase. In my first pregnancy I had to be put on bedrest for the last three months because of short cervix. Second pregnancy bleeding and hemathoma, again bedrest.

Mortality of mothers is very very low 

I'm in NY and this was basically my experience as well.  Since I was a first time older mom, in addition to my regular visits with my OB I had ultrasounds at 16, 20, 28 and 32 weeks with a maternal fetal specialist (I had a healthy pregnancy).

In every doctor visit my OB always did a quick ultrasound measuring baby's weight and heartbeat.

Its sad that we have such a high maternal death rate, but based on the healthcare system in the country I guess it doesn't really surprise me.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

I've read that a really big reason for the US high maternal death rate is obesity and high blood pressure and high blood sugar.

This is, unfortunately, very true.  The number of pregnant women, even teens, who are morbidly obese has skyrocketed over the past several years and is much higher than the rate of obesity in other developed countries.  This leads to a higher rate of miscarriage, stillbirth, gestational diabetes, hypertension and pre eclampsia, prolonged and difficult labors, cesarean sections, postpartum hemorrhage and infection.  It has become an epidemic.  Where I practice, at least half of the OB patients have a BMI over 30 which defines obesity and BMI's of 50+ are not uncommon.

[doodlebug]

33 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

In my country, pregnant women have an exam and ultrasound made by their gynecologist every 4 weeks in their pregnany. Bloodwork at 12 weeks (and then again later), and then glucose tolerance test at 24 weeks. 

After 36 weeks, women go to hospital where they plan to give birth in. Usually then exams start every week, and include ultrasound and vaginal exam of cervix.

I think this kind of health system catches every problem in early phase. In my first pregnancy I had to be put on bedrest for the last three months because of short cervix. Second pregnancy bleeding and hemathoma, again bedrest.

Mortality of mothers is very very low 

 

Not to debate the issue, but ultrasounds done regularly on low risk women have no effect on outcomes of pregnancy.  Even in high risk women, they are of limited value in most cases.  Using an ultrasound to estimate the weight of the baby is very inaccurate and should only be done in women who measure very large or very small or in the case of morbidly obese women who are hard to measure.  The US has a higher rate of prenatal ultrasounds than any other nation, so obviously they don't help prevent complications.

A lot of patients come in and tell me that their last OB doc did an ultrasound every visit to 'check the heartbeat' and 'make sure the baby was growing'.  It has become a popular fad because patients like to have ultrasounds and have developed (misplaced, IMO) faith in the technology; but there is absolutely nothing an OB/GYN can discover by doing a 2 minute ultrasound every visit that cannot be discerned by laying hands on the patient and listening to the heartbeat the old fashioned way.  It's trendy but it's not necessary even in high risk women, except in very rare cases.

ETA: even the most experienced sonographer is unable to estimate the baby's weight in utero without taking at least 3 measurements.  It is also most accurate if each of those measurements is rechecked for accuracy and the best one used in the estimate.  Even then, the range of error is 10-15% at best.  Such a scan, in the hands of an experienced practitioner, takes at least 10 minutes.  Any doc who slaps the transducer on a pregnant belly, spends a minute giving mom a tour of the heartbeat and anatomy and then pronounces the baby as 'growing well' is playacting, he/she has done nothing to assess the growth, it was just to show the mom how 'thorough' he or she is.

Edited July 27, 2018 by doodlebug

[DangerousMinds]

37 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

In my country, pregnant women have an exam and ultrasound made by their gynecologist every 4 weeks in their pregnany. Bloodwork at 12 weeks (and then again later), and then glucose tolerance test at 24 weeks. 

After 36 weeks, women go to hospital where they plan to give birth in. Usually then exams start every week, and include ultrasound and vaginal exam of cervix.

I think this kind of health system catches every problem in early phase. In my first pregnancy I had to be put on bedrest for the last three months because of short cervix. Second pregnancy bleeding and hemathoma, again bedrest.

Mortality of mothers is very very low 

 

I bet pregnancy and childbirth doesn’t cost a family tens of thousands of dollars in your country either. The US is cruel.

Edited July 27, 2018 by DangerousMinds

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, Triple P said:

On the Jessa and Ben thread, someone commented that we have seen pictures of Jeremy playing with Spurgeon and Henry but none with Israel and Sam. I think part of the reason for this is organic - the Vuolos are closer to the Seewalds than they are to the Dillards because Jinger and Jessa were close growing up and Jessa and Ben became friendly with Jeremy, eventually bringing him into Jinger's life.

On top of that, I think it is plain that Jeremy doesn't like Derick. Remember Jeremy's sermon commenting on unqualified missionaries? Hopefully, they have matured beyond jock vs nerd high school mentality, but I could see that playing into the relationship too. 

Jinger probably thinks that she loves Jill because they are sisters, but I don't think she likes Jill all that much. Jill was the family snitch after all and has no boundaries. Not that any of the Duggars have healthy boundaries, but Jill's seem to be the worst among the older girls - asking Jinger if she is pregnant yet, correcting Jinger when she expressed her desire to live in a city, etc.  

Thinking back to the Instagram posts from about year ago, Jeremy and Jinger seemed uncomfortable with the surprise* visit from Jill and Derick (and JD, who was flying them around).  This year, they all went to the SBC convention and it seems like they met up solely for a photo op to prevent fans/haters from questioning and speculating why they didn't see each other at that time. 

So in my mind it makes sense that Jeremy is closer to Spurgeon and Henry than he would be to Israel and Sam. It is similar to how I am close to kids of my co-worker, who is also a good friend, than I am to other co-worker's kids who I only see during the annual company picnic.

*I'd have to find the posts again, but in my memory, the caption made it seem like the Vuolos had only a few hours' notice of the Dillards' visit. In the photos, the Vuolos looked uncomfortable and the Dillards seemed blissfully unaware. 

Found the picture, didn’t find the post:

[Triple P]

Ok, the pictures aren't as bad as I remembered and the visit was about 6 minths ago, not a year.

Jill posted several pictures and there is one in the kitchen where Jinger, while smiling, looks annoyed in my opinion. The caption on Jinger's post, which is the same picture the @ginger90 posted, is captioned with "surpise last minute visit."

I did a quick scroll of all their Instagram posts to find the visit photos and I noticed that Jeremy tends to have a strained smile in most photos with the Duggars and a natural smile in the photos with friends and his family. I concede that this could all be in my head because I really want him to actively dislike Derick and only tolerate most of the Duggars. ?  

[SMama]

Did Izzy take the picture or was he just left with Cathy? 

[graefin]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Not to debate the issue, but ultrasounds done regularly on low risk women have no effect on outcomes of pregnancy.  Even in high risk women, they are of limited value in most cases.  Using an ultrasound to estimate the weight of the baby is very inaccurate and should only be done in women who measure very large or very small or in the case of morbidly obese women who are hard to measure.  The US has a higher rate of prenatal ultrasounds than any other nation, so obviously they don't help prevent complications.

A late-stage ultrasound certainly would have determined that Jill and Joy were both breech and prevented their unnecessary labors at home, though?

[Triple P]

2 minutes ago, SMama said:

Did Izzy take the picture or was he just left with Cathy? 

Jill and Derick were on the way home from a wedding, so I think Izzy was left with Cathy. Maybe they couldn't bring Jana along to take care of him.  It looks like the photo is in front of Grace Church. A member of the congregation probably took the photo. 

[Normades]

1 hour ago, graefin said:

A late-stage ultrasound certainly would have determined that Jill and Joy were both breech and prevented their unnecessary labors at home, though?

I don't want to answer for anyone else, but in my experience of having children, a real, certified doctor or midwife can determine position without an ultrasound, at least they did with my kids.  I had my kids over 20 years ago, so ultrasounds weren't done so regularly, but toward the last month the doctor/midwife (I had one of each) would examine me and say the baby is head down, in position, and ready to go.  They needed someone with real education and not Jill or the Fedowsky woman.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, graefin said:

A late-stage ultrasound certainly would have determined that Jill and Joy were both breech and prevented their unnecessary labors at home, though?

Sure, but most capable practitioners can suspect a baby is breech by doing a thorough exam including something called Leopold's maneuvers.  I didn't do routine ultrasounds on my patients at term and I hadn't missed a breech in several years by the time I retired.  Of course, if I suspected a baby was breech or just couldn't tell, I would do a bedside ultrasound in the office just to be sure.

Also, where I practiced, in real, licensed facilities; we had an ultrasound available right in the birthing center where there were even nurses who were trained to scan the patient on admission if the presentation was unsure.  In addition, anytime labor isn't progressing as expected, it's a real good idea to do a thorough exam including a vaginal exam just to be certain that things are what they seem. 

Recall that Jill tried to say that Israel somehow managed to do a complete somersault in utero in the middle of labor after her water had broken despite the fact that he was a behemoth.  That's just BS, he was always breech but Jill and her 'caregivers' just didn't think about it and/or didn't know how to properly assess a baby's position.  It wasn't until she went to the hospital and an actual doctor was consulted that anyone suspected he was not cephalic.

As a practice 'aid', I used to have something I called the 'breech dream'.  I would have a dream where I was performing a cesarean on a woman for a breech baby.  I was talking to her, but couldn't figure out who she was.  I kept trying to look over the surgical drapes to see her face, but I couldn't get a look at her.  After it happened a few times, I realized that I would inevitably discover that someone was breech at their next visit.  I started keeping track and realized that the breech turned out to be someone I had seen the day or two before I had the dream. I hadn't consciously made note of it, but my subconscious knew, and I'd have the dream to remind me to look for her.  It never failed, 100% of the time and it happened to me dozens of times over 20+years.  I would come into the office next day and warn my nurse and the midwives I worked with that somebody's baby was breech and we needed to find her.  I was lucky to get those dreams, they never let me down; but I don't think it is something you could teach in school.

Edited July 27, 2018 by doodlebug

[Snow Fairy]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Not to debate the issue, but ultrasounds done regularly on low risk women have no effect on outcomes of pregnancy.  Even in high risk women, they are of limited value in most cases.  Using an ultrasound to estimate the weight of the baby is very inaccurate and should only be done in women who measure very large or very small or in the case of morbidly obese women who are hard to measure.  The US has a higher rate of prenatal ultrasounds than any other nation, so obviously they don't help prevent complications.

A lot of patients come in and tell me that their last OB doc did an ultrasound every visit to 'check the heartbeat' and 'make sure the baby was growing'.  It has become a popular fad because patients like to have ultrasounds and have developed (misplaced, IMO) faith in the technology; but there is absolutely nothing an OB/GYN can discover by doing a 2 minute ultrasound every visit that cannot be discerned by laying hands on the patient and listening to the heartbeat the old fashioned way.  It's trendy but it's not necessary even in high risk women, except in very rare cases.

ETA: even the most experienced sonographer is unable to estimate the baby's weight in utero without taking at least 3 measurements.  It is also most accurate if each of those measurements is rechecked for accuracy and the best one used in the estimate.  Even then, the range of error is 10-15% at best.  Such a scan, in the hands of an experienced practitioner, takes at least 10 minutes.  Any doc who slaps the transducer on a pregnant belly, spends a minute giving mom a tour of the heartbeat and anatomy and then pronounces the baby as 'growing well' is playacting, he/she has done nothing to assess the growth, it was just to show the mom how 'thorough' he or she is.

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I bet pregnancy and childbirth doesn’t cost a family tens of thousands of dollars in your country either. The US is cruel.

My doctor always checked the baby's heart, brain, kidneys and bladder, and all other things.  They check the baby's growth so there is no IUGR

And also important - they check the cervix shape (T for closed, V for open) and AFI numbers (amniotic fluid). 

 

Nope, everything is covered with health insurance. Everyone has one. The employed people pay for it in taxes, and everyone uses it. I can't wrap my head around the fact that everything in the US relating to health costs so much

True, I went to a "private" gynocologist, so I had to pay. But that was my choice, due to the fact both of my pregnancies were IVF so I wanted to make sure everything is going ok.

[Wishing Well]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Found the picture, didn’t find the post:

Is this a photo of them going to church??  Jinger and Jeremy look fantastic, and JD looks like he got dressed in the dark, but still respectfully.  The other two look like idiots off to the grocery store.

I grew up Mormon, and if you’re going to church you better have a suit or dress on, hair and makeup done to the nines.

[ginger90]

4 hours ago, Triple P said:

Ok, the pictures aren't as bad as I remembered and the visit was about 6 minths ago, not a year.

Jill posted several pictures and there is one in the kitchen where Jinger, while smiling, looks annoyed in my opinion. The caption on Jinger's post, which is the same picture the @ginger90 posted, is captioned with "surpise last minute visit."

I did a quick scroll of all their Instagram posts to find the visit photos and I noticed that Jeremy tends to have a strained smile in most photos with the Duggars and a natural smile in the photos with friends and his family. I concede that this could all be in my head because I really want him to actively dislike Derick and only tolerate most of the Duggars. ?  

Here’s Jill’s, there’s 6 pictures:

 

[Catfin]

7 hours ago, Normades said:

 

I just hate how people like the Duggars seem to think they know better than healthcare professionals and they in turn encourage others who drink their koolaid to put themselves in dangerous situations.  They would use those statistics to say that having a baby at home is as safe as a hospital, when most of the time they end up at the hospital because of their own hubris.

There are many non-compliant, obtuse people who do not seek care. The step-child ignored the fact that she was pregnant and did not seek care until SEVEN months along. She immediately became pregnant within six weeks of delivery and drank and smoked through the entire second pregnancy.  This sort of person tends to have negative outcomes. These poor kids. 

[Bridget]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:51 AM, Kbo said:

That hanging plant takes me straight back to the 70’s. Macrame, anyone?  Can’t believe they hung it so close to the crib, you know the baby will be going for it as soon as they’re big enough. Jinger looks great, so nice to see her hair shiny and healthy-looking.  Still wish she’d take off a good six inches. 

Haven't read all of the comments yet, apologies if someone else stated this, but this would be an ideal time for Jinger to chop off some hair. A really long lob would look great on her. When I saw the photo of her holding the baby (with her long ass hair within grabbing distance), I had visions of the baby pulling Jinger's hair sometime soon. 

She needs something low maintenance, baby proof and manageable. Let's face it: Baaaaabe will be at school soon, leaving Jinger to be the (I assume) primary caretaker. It would also save a ton of time when showering, which is what I hear new moms consider a legitimate luxury.  

Also, I am quite floored that some D-bags showed up so soon after the birth. Jeremy, I'm not your biggest fan, but we were counting on you! A photo shoot of the Baaaabes, their new baby and its bland nursery could've still happened and sold magazines without the appearance of freakin' MEchelle and Jessa.

@Christina87, my cousin Michael's wife is named Natalie. She's a redhead! Sorry to throw you for a loop, but I couldn't help myself! :)

@Wishing Well, I'm with you and the others who would love to know if the Vuolos watch the Arrowverse.  I would pay to see footage of the Baaaabes watching Stephen Amell on the salmon ladder, lookin' all fine, as he defrauds every single person who watches. When I think about it, the Arrowverse's shows are usually based on the age old mantra of  "good vs. evil." Call me crazy, but that's not a bad lesson to teach or learn. It wouldn't be a bad show for the Baaabes to watch. Even the most sheltered people that I know, including middle/high school students, never seem to have a problem with the "heathens" that appear. When we debrief about the latest episode, their take away is usually "Did you see how awesome XYZ was when they fought off the bad guys?" 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Bridget

[magpye29]

I had nine (count 'em, nine) ultrasounds with my first baby because the tech thought he saw a lucency on the baby's brain and was going to be born with a cyst on his brain.  Not only did he not have a cyst, those nine ultrasounds failed to show that my son had hypoplastic right heart (meaning he was missing a chamber of his heart), an underdeveloped eye, and pachygyria of the brain (meaning that instead of having a brain that looked like mini sausage links, his brain was smooth), among several other major issues.  He was born in a military hospital in Panama and died in San Antonio 16 days later after two heart surgeries and a lot of special care in the NICU.  This was 30 years ago, and all we paid for his care was $140.  Military insurance is pretty good, especially when you're active duty.  I had multiple ultrasounds with my other two pregnancies, too.  Oh, failed to mention that I had three c-sections.  The baby who died never entered the birth canal during 14 hours of labor, my daughter was sectioned on her due date, and my second son was scheduled to be a c-section, but I went into labor five days early, but still had a c-section.

To get this back on topic, I have never understood why anyone cares how their babies come into the world, as long as they get here safely.  I'm very happy for Jinger that she seems to have had an easy labor and birth, and applaud her for having given birth in a hospital.  I hope she and Jeremy have a boy next time--and stop there.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Bridget said:

It would also save a ton of time when showering, which is what I hear new moms consider a legitimate luxury.  

Except the Duggars have never been known for their impeccable hygiene. The rubes have proudly talked about bathing all kids in the same bath water (from cleanest to dirtiest). They have admitted to not bathing daily, even in the Arkansas heat. Given the state of their hair it seems the girls do not shampoo daily. It’s the Duggar way.

 

D-bags ??

[mythoughtis]

9 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

 

10 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

In my country, pregnant women have an exam and ultrasound made by their gynecologist every 4 weeks in their pregnany. Bloodwork at 12 weeks (and then again later), and then glucose tolerance test at 24 weeks. 

After 36 weeks, women go to hospital where they plan to give birth in. Usually then exams start every week, and include ultrasound and vaginal exam of cervix.

I think this kind of health system catches every problem in early phase. In my first pregnancy I had to be put on bedrest for the last three months because of short cervix. Second pregnancy bleeding and hemathoma, again bedrest.

Mortality of mothers is very very low 

Other than your complications and the ultrasounds,  That’s pretty much how both my pregnancies were handled here in the US. My doctor did the weekly exams rather than the hospital.

I hope Jinger got pre-natal care with professionals. 

[humbleopinion]

Double middle fingers to his least favorite in laws..

[awaken]

Derick looks so much like the guy from scooby doo in those pics. 

[graefin]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Recall that Jill tried to say that Israel somehow managed to do a complete somersault in utero in the middle of labor after her water had broken despite the fact that he was a behemoth.  That's just BS, he was always breech but Jill and her 'caregivers' just didn't think about it and/or didn't know how to properly assess a baby's position.  It wasn't until she went to the hospital and an actual doctor was consulted that anyone suspected he was not cephalic.

I do remember Jill exclaiming, "that little stinker!" about Israel being breech and talking about it in her subsequent talking heads as if he had managed to turn at the last minute, but I also remember footage showing the OB doc presenting it to her as such: "he's now in this position" were his words (or something along those lines--my emphasis on the "now," as if before he wasn't). He certainly didn't appear to do anything to disabuse her of the notion that this was something that had occurred in the hospital rather than something that was missed during her prior "care."

I thought his wording was strange at the time and would like to think that the doc knew it was impossible for that baby to have flipped himself that late. I'm guessing that perhaps after having met and dealt with Jill for any length of time, he just didn't want to get into it with her, so he delivered the news to her in a way that he felt would result in the quickest acceptance of the necessary outcome (C-section). I wouldn't know how else to explain it.

[Absolom]

Yes, I took it as it doesn't matter where you thought he was 45 minutes ago or how you think he'll turn an hour from now, right now the kid is breech and needs to come out so you're out of options.  I know eyeballing the kid in photos is not a good way to determine baby position, but he looked just like my daughter's boss did when her baby was breech and Jill looked like that for months.  

[Happyfatchick]

That baby is adorable!   Felicity is kind of a mouthful for a kid (even the bearer of the name, right?).   I like that it’s not so trendy, and that she used her own middle name for the baby’s.   I’m cutting Jeremy some slack for his posts - he’s knee deep in learning how to be a dad first-hand.  Maybe enough sleep deprivation will seal the deal on limiting the number of blessings in their future.  I’m happy for them!  Seems to me they’re rocking it pretty good, all things considered.  

ETA: my given first name is Zelma.  (Named for my 2 grandmothers).  Thank you sweet baby Jebus, I have a common middle name and have always been called by that one.  “Zelma” has, however, always been my get-out-of-jail-free card for snarking on other people for weird names.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Happyfatchick
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[Triple P]

User error, sorry!

Edited July 28, 2018 by Triple P

[Tabbygirl521]

Oh, magpye. I am so very sorry!

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, graefin said:

I do remember Jill exclaiming, "that little stinker!" about Israel being breech and talking about it in her subsequent talking heads as if he had managed to turn at the last minute, but I also remember footage showing the OB doc presenting it to her as such: "he's now in this position" were his words (or something along those lines--my emphasis on the "now," as if before he wasn't). He certainly didn't appear to do anything to disabuse her of the notion that this was something that had occurred in the hospital rather than something that was missed during her prior "care."

I thought his wording was strange at the time and would like to think that the doc knew it was impossible for that baby to have flipped himself that late. I'm guessing that perhaps after having met and dealt with Jill for any length of time, he just didn't want to get into it with her, so he delivered the news to her in a way that he felt would result in the quickest acceptance of the necessary outcome (C-section). I wouldn't know how else to explain it.

He's probably dealt with a lot of homebirth transfers as well, and knew better than to tell a "midwife" attempting her own homebirth that she was wrong about anything. His priority was a healthy mother and baby, and the best way to achieve that was to be as conciliatory as possible.

[latetotheparty]

13 hours ago, Happyfatchick said:

That baby is adorable!   Felicity is kind of a mouthful for a kid (even the bearer of the name, right?).   I like that it’s not so trendy, and that she used her own middle name for the baby’s.   I’m cutting Jeremy some slack for his posts - he’s knee deep in learning how to be a dad first-hand.  Maybe enough sleep deprivation will seal the deal on limiting the number of blessings in their future.  I’m happy for them!  Seems to me they’re rocking it pretty good, all things considered.  

ETA: my given first name is Zelma.  (Named for my 2 grandmothers).  Thank you sweet baby Jebus, I have a common middle name and have always been called by that one.  “Zelma” has, however, always been my get-out-of-jail-free card for snarking on other people for weird names.

But your given name is the PERFECT pen name for the book you need to write. Need, I tell you!  Honestly I am charmed that’s your name. I wish you could see my smile.  

[magpye29]

14 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Oh, magpye. I am so very sorry!

Thank you.  It was a good learning experience for me, and I am a much better parent to my two subsequent children because I knew how short life can be.  True story:  we were playing Outburst one night recently (where people give you clues so you can guess a word, without using certain other words to help you).  My daughter was giving me clues, and she said, "Mummy, you never did this to us."  I guessed "spank" right away, but I was so touched that that was a thing for her.

[ginger90]

[Heathen]

6 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

"U" drive me up the frigging wall. "U" only have to type two more letters. Do it. 

[Zella]

20 hours ago, Happyfatchick said:

That baby is adorable!   Felicity is kind of a mouthful for a kid (even the bearer of the name, right?).   I like that it’s not so trendy, and that she used her own middle name for the baby’s.   I’m cutting Jeremy some slack for his posts - he’s knee deep in learning how to be a dad first-hand.  Maybe enough sleep deprivation will seal the deal on limiting the number of blessings in their future.  I’m happy for them!  Seems to me they’re rocking it pretty good, all things considered.  

ETA: my given first name is Zelma.  (Named for my 2 grandmothers).  Thank you sweet baby Jebus, I have a common middle name and have always been called by that one.  “Zelma” has, however, always been my get-out-of-jail-free card for snarking on other people for weird names.

Though I've never heard it before, I like Zelma as a name. :) 

[Maharincess]

49 minutes ago, Heathen said:

"U" drive me up the frigging wall. "U" only have to type two more letters. Do it. 

I feel that way about ALL of the stupid initials that are everywhere.  It takes a half a second to type a full word but nobody does it anymore. 

[truebluesmoky]

In fairness, Twitter has a character limit, so people get in the habit of taking as many shortcuts as possible to fit in all they want to say.

[awaken]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

"U" drive me up the frigging wall. "U" only have to type two more letters. Do it. 

And use punctuation. 

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, truebluesmoky said:

In fairness, Twitter has a character limit, so people get in the habit of taking as many shortcuts as possible to fit in all they want to say.

People do the same thing on Facebook, which has no character limit. 

[Loves2Dance]

On 7/27/2018 at 12:01 PM, doodlebug said:

Not to debate the issue, but ultrasounds done regularly on low risk women have no effect on outcomes of pregnancy.  Even in high risk women, they are of limited value in most cases.  Using an ultrasound to estimate the weight of the baby is very inaccurate and should only be done in women who measure very large or very small or in the case of morbidly obese women who are hard to measure.  The US has a higher rate of prenatal ultrasounds than any other nation, so obviously they don't help prevent complications.

A lot of patients come in and tell me that their last OB doc did an ultrasound every visit to 'check the heartbeat' and 'make sure the baby was growing'.  It has become a popular fad because patients like to have ultrasounds and have developed (misplaced, IMO) faith in the technology; but there is absolutely nothing an OB/GYN can discover by doing a 2 minute ultrasound every visit that cannot be discerned by laying hands on the patient and listening to the heartbeat the old fashioned way.  It's trendy but it's not necessary even in high risk women, except in very rare cases.

ETA: even the most experienced sonographer is unable to estimate the baby's weight in utero without taking at least 3 measurements.  It is also most accurate if each of those measurements is rechecked for accuracy and the best one used in the estimate.  Even then, the range of error is 10-15% at best.  Such a scan, in the hands of an experienced practitioner, takes at least 10 minutes.  Any doc who slaps the transducer on a pregnant belly, spends a minute giving mom a tour of the heartbeat and anatomy and then pronounces the baby as 'growing well' is playacting, he/she has done nothing to assess the growth, it was just to show the mom how 'thorough' he or she is.

 

I was one of those high risk moms who got the almost weekly ultrasounds (the first trimester was weekly, it tapered after that) and every trimester had a 3D scan in the office of my MFMS. His tech was awesome and would spend a solid 10-15 minutes doing measurements before he'd even come in to talk about it---all while the thing stayed on my stomach so I watched the whole time. 

For me, it was more about piece of mind. By the time I was pregnant with my oldest I had 4 losses and one was a missed m/c so even though I think vaginal ultrasounds are a little gross, I was super duper thankful for them. By the time I had my eldest I had had 19 total scans, 4 of them were 3D (done in hospital, not a boutique). 

But it's funny that you mentioned judging size via u/s. At my 32 week MFMS 3D scan he noticed she was big so he scheduled another at 38 weeks...she was still big. His estimate was 9.5-10 lbs---if he estimated over 10 lbs it would have meant a recommended c/s which I was flat against. Time rolls on and I get admitted, the attending OB does his stuff, feels my stomach and thinks 7-7.5 lbs. The OB who actually delivered me comes in and there is some debate over what my specialist wrote in my chart versus what the originally attending thoughts. She came out right at 10 lbs. 

And unlike Jill and Joy who were too ill prepared to seek out an ultrasound to confirm positioning when youngest was suspected of being breech I was sent in for an extra ultrasound...sure enough she was breech. They also picked up on something else that landed me on a cold hard slab in an OR, but my point is---why the u/s fad may be a fad, I appreciated it. I was never privileged enough to experience the joy or excitement of being pregnant because every new corner was just more time for something else to go wrong---but for that 10-15 minutes of watching them grow, at least I knew they were alive. And fwiw, I'm also an American and we paid $0 for any of it---not the visits, the hospital, the specialists, the special medicines, the ultrasounds...etc. Nada. Military insurance rocks and frankly everyone should have it. 

Sorta back on topic, but I'll be interested to see how much we see for Fel's birth story. I wonder if she was born in SA, versus somewhere closer, was because they were the only ones to allow cameras in?

Edited July 29, 2018 by Loves2Dance

[abbey]

I am very happy for Jeremy and Jinger with the birth of Felicity (and with the fact that she was born in a hospital) but I must admit to taking perverse pleasure in the name they picked for her, seeing as how Jeremy is so anti-Catholic.  Felicity is the name of a saint and martyr in the early church and her name is mentioned in one of the Eucharistic prayers that can be used at mass.  He may think the Catholic religion  is misguided/ evil but he will always have a little bit of  Catholicism in his life.

Edited July 29, 2018 by abbey
typo

[LilJen]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 11:55 AM, doodlebug said:

This is, unfortunately, very true.  The number of pregnant women, even teens, who are morbidly obese has skyrocketed over the past several years and is much higher than the rate of obesity in other developed countries.  This leads to a higher rate of miscarriage, stillbirth, gestational diabetes, hypertension and pre eclampsia, prolonged and difficult labors, cesarean sections, postpartum hemorrhage and infection.  It has become an epidemic.  Where I practice, at least half of the OB patients have a BMI over 30 which defines obesity and BMI's of 50+ are not uncommon.

I truly wonder how a woman with a BMI of 50+ can even get around, let alone take care of a baby. A person I met with regularly was probably over 500 lbs and she was bedbound.

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:22 PM, magpye29 said:

I had nine (count 'em, nine) ultrasounds with my first baby because the tech thought he saw a lucency on the baby's brain and was going to be born with a cyst on his brain.  Not only did he not have a cyst, those nine ultrasounds failed to show that my son had hypoplastic right heart (meaning he was missing a chamber of his heart), an underdeveloped eye, and pachygyria of the brain (meaning that instead of having a brain that looked like mini sausage links, his brain was smooth), among several other major issues.  He was born in a military hospital in Panama and died in San Antonio 16 days later after two heart surgeries and a lot of special care in the NICU.  This was 30 years ago, and all we paid for his care was $140.  Military insurance is pretty good, especially when you're active duty.  I had multiple ultrasounds with my other two pregnancies, too.  Oh, failed to mention that I had three c-sections.  The baby who died never entered the birth canal during 14 hours of labor, my daughter was sectioned on her due date, and my second son was scheduled to be a c-section, but I went into labor five days early, but still had a c-section.

To get this back on topic, I have never understood why anyone cares how their babies come into the world, as long as they get here safely.  I'm very happy for Jinger that she seems to have had an easy labor and birth, and applaud her for having given birth in a hospital.  I hope she and Jeremy have a boy next time--and stop there.

I am so sorry. I'm glad you had two subsequent healthy babies, but what an awful, awful shock that must have been after all that apparent surveillance.