The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[bigskygirl]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

She could have been stuck with Lawson. 

Speaking of Lawson...    https://www.inquisitr.com/3693635/did-jinger-duggar-and-jeremy-vuolos-wedding-break-lawson-bates-heart/

[fonfereksglen]

11 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Your friendly neighborhood introvert here, just popping in to remind everyone that introversion and shyness are not the same thing AT ALL! I’m very introverted and definitely not shy. I need a LOT of time alone but when I am around people I’m outgoing and “normal” (whatever that means). It’s totally possible to be a shy extrovert, too.

I do know what @awaken means, though — that emphasis on “community” is exhausting! There’s a book out now called Blessed Are the Misfits that addresses this. I haven’t read it yet because I’m kind of afraid it will open up some stuff I’d been avoiding, but I think it’s an important message: Christian introverts are not living in sin and rebellion!

I still really hate the word “fundie” (it reminds me of people who call Pakistanis “Pakis”), but in my experience in evangelical churches, there was a belief than men should pursue women. It wasn’t framed as the man having “control,” though. Women had plenty of power to say no or slow down at any point. It’s not necessarily how I’d approach dating now if I were single, but it wasn’t oppressive or mindless. The way the Duggars do things is extremely unusual even for very conservative evangelicals. I think people who aren’t involved in American Christianity or especially the Protestant versions may inadvertently get the impression that the Duggars and Bateses represent a large portion of that population but they truly do not. They are outliers, anomalies, and basically freaks. They talk a good surface game so Christians who don’t follow them closely think they seem nice, but would probably be appalled at how they actually live. 

Brilliant.  

[queenanne]

I don't think anything makes a difference to the fundie point of view as long as you aren't willing to "fellowship" for hours on end, which means "the opposite of sitting alone by yourself".  Woe betide the person in this group who actually thinks that religion is something between themselves and God.  They'll never be allowed to escape being required to show it outwardly, by socializing and God-bothering heathens.  If they're not "witnessing" everywhere they go, they are "ashamed of the Gospel".  

As for the Susan Cain chapter on introverts in church, by my recollections this is a good interpretation:

She recounts her day at Rick Warren’s mega-church campus, Saddleback. After speaking with a pastor, not employed at Saddleback, the author explains how the Evangelical mode of worship can be off putting to an introvert. Mega churches are exhausting to an introvert. Their pastors are motivational-speaker level enthusiastic, praise and worship is loud, bright and terrifying if they’ve got cameras in the audience threatening to put your face on a jumbo-tron for everyone to watch. Even more subdued churches like the one I grew up in can be intimidating. 

...

The pastor Susan Cain interviews is concerned that these outward signs of worship — lifting your hands, speaking in tongues etc — as well as church involvement — spending more nights at church than not, being involved in groups, studies, attending mixers and outreaches — are now seen as benchmarks for holiness. As though, not only fortune, but God himself favors the bold.  It seems, the pastor suggests, that Evangelical churches are embracing this extrovert ideal and associating it, not only with worldly success, but to your holiness and indeed your salvation.

More here:  https://thecarruths.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/introverts-in-the-church/

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, queenanne said:

I don't think anything makes a difference to the fundie point of view as long as you aren't willing to "fellowship" for hours on end, which means "the opposite of sitting alone by yourself".  Woe betide the person in this group who actually thinks that religion is something between themselves and God.  They'll never be allowed to escape being required to show it outwardly, by socializing and God-bothering heathens.  If they're not "witnessing" everywhere they go, they are "ashamed of the Gospel".  

As for the Susan Cain chapter on introverts in church, by my recollections this is a good interpretation:

 

The percentage of evangelical Christians keeps falling, and they seem to keep looking for ways to push people out of the fold. Introverts make up nearly 50% of the population, and these efforts to make introverts feel even more uncomfortable in the church aren't going to help. I keep thinking that at some point, they're going to notice and say "we have to stop alienating people. We have to look for ways to be inclusive and welcoming. Christianity is about a loving God." but that never happens. 

[louannems]

9 hours ago, queenanne said:

When my fundie family had the visiting grand-fundies over, about the only acceptable excuse for not virtually sitting on their laps, joining in on their living-room naps, and being willing to sit around watching women prep food nonstop while simultaneously tut-tutting and proclaiming about how everything outside of the church or 1950s was an immoral scandal, was being in the bathroom.  (I wish I was making this up!)  I've never been cleaner or better-groomed in my life than when I needed to avoid my grandmother standing downstairs nag-hollering about where I was.

 

That reminds me of the Maxwell clan.  The entire family, adult unmarrieds, married with kids, grandparents, are forever sitting around in the living room fellowshipping!  Kids always on laps.

I wonder if Jinger and Jeremy will have nightly Bible time with their daughter.

Edited April 30, 2018 by louannems

[madpsych78]

I could see them having Bible time every night. As long as their daughter gets her own Bible when she is older then she will be miles ahead of the Duggars. (I remember that shot in the 2000s of the Duggars all around the dining room table but only JB had a Bible.)

[DangerousMinds]

Doesn't the bible say NOT to pray in public?

[zoomama]

24 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Doesn't the bible say NOT to pray in public?

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/should-christians-pray-in-public-or-not/

[Ohiopirate02]

As I look at this debate about the ways evangelicals alienate introverts, I can't help but think that this is a direct result of their total aversion to everything Roman Catholic.  We still have convents, monasteries and silent retreats.  (There are some weeks where i wish I could take a 3 day retreat with the Jesuits).  While we do not have completely silent church services, our faith does allow for quiet prayer.  I do pity them sometimes when I realize that many protestants will never know the power of Eucharist Adoration. 

It's also too bad that evangelicals have not realized how to create jewelry or clothing options to show the world their faith while keeping their mouths shut.  I know us Catholics got there first with the religious medals,  I wish I could look at them and tell by their clothing that they were evangelicals before one opened their mouth and uttered, "Hi, I'm Jeremy and I am Christian."

[zoomama]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do pity them sometimes when I realize that many protestants will never know the power of Eucharist Adoration. 

 

what does this mean, exactly? i googled it and i dont get it. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, zoomama said:

what does this mean, exactly? i googled it and i dont get it. 

It's silent prayer with the Eucharist on the alter in a monstrance.  You can come and pray for as long as you like.  My church does it once a month for 24 hours.  I really don't recommend taking the 3 am shift, but it's a really nice way to decompress.  It's just you and Jesus in a darkened church.  This is the most unguided of Catholic meditation.

[Temperance]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

As I look at this debate about the ways evangelicals alienate introverts, I can't help but think that this is a direct result of their total aversion to everything Roman Catholic.  We still have convents, monasteries and silent retreats.  (There are some weeks where i wish I could take a 3 day retreat with the Jesuits).  While we do not have completely silent church services, our faith does allow for quiet prayer.  I do pity them sometimes when I realize that many protestants will never know the power of Eucharist Adoration. 

It's also too bad that evangelicals have not realized how to create jewelry or clothing options to show the world their faith while keeping their mouths shut.  I know us Catholics got there first with the religious medals,  I wish I could look at them and tell by their clothing that they were evangelicals before one opened their mouth and uttered, "Hi, I'm Jeremy and I am Christian."

Hmm... that's a good point, although I know a lot of loud Catholics, who don't do quiet worship. 

I think a lot of what's going on is about ensuring your child turn exactly like you when they're adults. The Duggars, Bates, etc. are clearly an example of people trying to keep your kids in your image, but my fundie-lite friends do this too.  

If you're loud in the fold, then there's less a chance of you leaving. A kid who finds church a party is less likely to leave. An extrovert might blurt out their bad thoughts and give you a chance to correct them. A quiet kid might be hiding rebellious thoughts. Of course an aquaintance used to preach noise at a quiet kid, and that kid would nod and tell them what they wanted to hear. 

[libgirl2]

20 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's silent prayer with the Eucharist on the alter in a monstrance.  You can come and pray for as long as you like.  My church does it once a month for 24 hours.  I really don't recommend taking the 3 am shift, but it's a really nice way to decompress.  It's just you and Jesus in a darkened church.  This is the most unguided of Catholic meditation.

I am Catholic and vaguely remember it. It sounds like it could be a good de-stress time. I have been having some personal issues with my parents failing health, especially this past weekend. All I could think about is I need time with Jesus. 

[floridamom]

I have dropped in on Eucharistic Adoration many times over the last 10 years. I find it to be a wonderful time to decompress and reflect on the 'bigger, more important' things. I also have wondered, believe it or not, what the Duggars would think of spiritual time like that? Yes, I actually have thought of them when going in to the church. I'm sure they would find all kinds of things wrong with that.  At times I'm sorry for them to have no real spiritual outlets allowed in their belief system. 

[MamaMax]

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I am Catholic and vaguely remember it. It sounds like it could be a good de-stress time. I have been having some personal issues with my parents failing health, especially this past weekend. All I could think about is I need time with Jesus. 

Me too. And its funny/ironic, when many Evangelical Christians criticize Catholics for not having a "personal relationship" with Jesus.  

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 4/29/2018 at 1:28 AM, mynextmistake said:

Jinger’s skin looks terrible in that photo, almost as bad as it was in the TTH. Could be pregnancy hormones, I guess? That book sounds like something a teen/college women’s ministry group would read together. As the pastor’s wife at a small church Jinger would be expected to participate in (if not lead) that kind of group so I don’t think it’s weird she posted about it on Instagram. 

I have adult acne (it's hormonal, not because of what I eat/hygiene issues, although that could certainly make it worse).

My acne basically went away when I was pregnant with my son.  It came back with a vengeance when I was pregnant with my daughter.  Hormones are a funny thing. 

I think several of the Duggar kids suffer from adult acne as well, plus pregnancy hormones can really do a number on your skin. I'm sure that's what's going on with Jinger.  If I had as many followers as she does, you can bet I'd be photoshopping my acne away before I posted a picture or ad on my social media, BUT part of me kind of likes that she's keeping it real.  Sometimes pregnant women get acne.  It's reality and shows that pregnancy isn't just about celebrating the fetus's size in relation to fruit, having baby showers, and being "blessed." Pregnancy also entails a lot of strange (and sometimes kind of gross....way grosser than acne) stuff that happens with your body. Good for Jinger. 

(Also, as I got nearer to 30+ weeks pregnancy, I had less and less Fs to give about anything but being comfortable, especially as the hot summer drew near. I assume Jinger has no Fs to give about her acne right now, LOL. I probably wouldn't be as confident as a reality TV "star," so good on her.)

 

Also, I'm an introvert, but not necessarily shy.  I was raised Catholic (I'm still culturally Catholic).  Ya'll have summed up for me what I find overwhelming about many evangelical services and the Fundie lifestyle.  :)  So many people, so much noise, so much sensory overload, so little personal space, etc, etc.

Edited May 1, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MamaMax]

12 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Also, I'm an introvert, but not necessarily shy.  I was raised Catholic (I'm still culturally Catholic).  Ya'll have summed up for me what I find overwhelming about many evangelical services and the Fundie lifestyle.  :)  So many people, so much noise, so much sensory overload, so little personal space, etc, etc.

Matthew 6:5-8 ESV / 294 helpful votes

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

[zoomama]

1 hour ago, MamaMax said:

Matthew 6:5-8 ESV / 294 helpful votes

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

back to what i shared a day or so ago:

'Matthew 6:5–8 has nothing to do with whether we should pray in public or not. This passage is related to the reason we are praying. When Jesus contrasted praying publicly versus praying privately, He showed how we should not be selfish but selfless. We should be praying selflessly and glorifying God for His many blessings—while laying up treasures in heaven.'

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/should-christians-pray-in-public-or-not/

[Temperance]

32 minutes ago, zoomama said:

back to what i shared a day or so ago:

'Matthew 6:5–8 has nothing to do with whether we should pray in public or not. This passage is related to the reason we are praying. When Jesus contrasted praying publicly versus praying privately, He showed how we should not be selfish but selfless. We should be praying selflessly and glorifying God for His many blessings—while laying up treasures in heaven.'

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/should-christians-pray-in-public-or-not/

That's not how I was taught to interpret that scripture. (I was taught to believe it means don't use your religion to brag.) And I disagree with the article. YMMV.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Temperance

[MargeGunderson]

8 hours ago, floridamom said:

I have dropped in on Eucharistic Adoration many times over the last 10 years. I find it to be a wonderful time to decompress and reflect on the 'bigger, more important' things. I also have wondered, believe it or not, what the Duggars would think of spiritual time like that? Yes, I actually have thought of them when going in to the church. I'm sure they would find all kinds of things wrong with that.  At times I'm sorry for them to have no real spiritual outlets allowed in their belief system. 

The Duggars are religious but not spiritual. They follow the law of the Bible but not the spirit. If I remember my New Testament class correct, that was part of Jesus’ admonition of the Pharisees. I think the Duggars would do well to go back and re-read that little section from time to time. 

[libgirl2]

12 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

The Duggars are religious but not spiritual. They follow the law of the Bible but not the spirit. If I remember my New Testament class correct, that was part of Jesus’ admonition of the Pharisees. I think the Duggars would do well to go back and re-read that little section from time to time. 

I have said that about many so called Christians. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by libgirl2

[frenchtoast]

Let us set our eyes on the most snarkable Jinger and Jeremy and not cast asunder other unnamed folks. In plain English, let's snark on Jinger and Jeremy and not argue the finer points of a religion. 

[libgirl2]

On 5/1/2018 at 2:49 PM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I have adult acne (it's hormonal, not because of what I eat/hygiene issues, although that could certainly make it worse).

My acne basically went away when I was pregnant with my son.  It came back with a vengeance when I was pregnant with my daughter.  Hormones are a funny thing. 

I think several of the Duggar kids suffer from adult acne as well, plus pregnancy hormones can really do a number on your skin. I'm sure that's what's going on with Jinger.  If I had as many followers as she does, you can bet I'd be photoshopping my acne away before I posted a picture or ad on my social media, BUT part of me kind of likes that she's keeping it real.  Sometimes pregnant women get acne.  It's reality and shows that pregnancy isn't just about celebrating the fetus's size in relation to fruit, having baby showers, and being "blessed." Pregnancy also entails a lot of strange (and sometimes kind of gross....way grosser than acne) stuff that happens with your body. Good for Jinger. 

(Also, as I got nearer to 30+ weeks pregnancy, I had less and less Fs to give about anything but being comfortable, especially as the hot summer drew near. I assume Jinger has no Fs to give about her acne right now, LOL. I probably wouldn't be as confident as a reality TV "star," so good on her.)

 

Also, I'm an introvert, but not necessarily shy.  I was raised Catholic (I'm still culturally Catholic).  Ya'll have summed up for me what I find overwhelming about many evangelical services and the Fundie lifestyle.  :)  So many people, so much noise, so much sensory overload, so little personal space, etc, etc.

 

I was lucky that wasn't an issue. Growing up I always had naturally curly hair. No perm needed, just a really nice curl. I also dyed my hair every color imaginable. After my son was born, my hair wouldn't curl and I tried to color it red again and found I had an allergy to hair dye. It took years (my son is 24) but my curl is back, but I still have a hair dye allergy and can just about tolerate blonde. Just a bit of an itch, but no blisters! And I even tried natural dyes and no luck. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by libgirl2

[mynextmistake]

On 5/1/2018 at 11:49 AM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I have adult acne (it's hormonal, not because of what I eat/hygiene issues, although that could certainly make it worse).

My acne basically went away when I was pregnant with my son.  It came back with a vengeance when I was pregnant with my daughter.  Hormones are a funny thing. 

I think several of the Duggar kids suffer from adult acne as well, plus pregnancy hormones can really do a number on your skin. I'm sure that's what's going on with Jinger.  If I had as many followers as she does, you can bet I'd be photoshopping my acne away before I posted a picture or ad on my social media, BUT part of me kind of likes that she's keeping it real.  Sometimes pregnant women get acne.  It's reality and shows that pregnancy isn't just about celebrating the fetus's size in relation to fruit, having baby showers, and being "blessed." Pregnancy also entails a lot of strange (and sometimes kind of gross....way grosser than acne) stuff that happens with your body. Good for Jinger. 

(Also, as I got nearer to 30+ weeks pregnancy, I had less and less Fs to give about anything but being comfortable, especially as the hot summer drew near. I assume Jinger has no Fs to give about her acne right now, LOL. I probably wouldn't be as confident as a reality TV "star," so good on her.)

 

Also, I'm an introvert, but not necessarily shy.  I was raised Catholic (I'm still culturally Catholic).  Ya'll have summed up for me what I find overwhelming about many evangelical services and the Fundie lifestyle.  :)  So many people, so much noise, so much sensory overload, so little personal space, etc, etc.

Oh I know. I wasn’t criticizing Jinger, just noticing the difference. My skin was beautiful when I was pregnant with my daughter — the severe anemia that led to many afternoons in a chair hooked to an IV drip totally removed the ruddiness from my complexion. All in all, though, I think I would have preferred the acne.?

[Christina87]

I still HOPE that Jinger was on birth control, and the acne is from coming off of it. A girl can dream!

[xwordfanatik]

That's what happened when I went off the pill in the mid-70's.  Major breakouts.

I didn't get pregnant right away, we used other barrier methods for a few years.

I hope Jin was delaying on purpose, too.  It would be nice to see at least one of these young women breed in moderation, 2-3 kids max.

[madpsych78]

Or Jeremy wore a condom. 

[Christina87]

I feel almost sure that Jeremy said no kids for a year, because they got pregnant right after their first anniversary. I'm thinking Jeremy will allow 2-3 kids, and that will be it! He's surely not going to trade in his fashionable attire for Goodwill finds, nor does he want to work multiple jobs to support a family. 

[bigskygirl]

Sad Jeremy might be "allowing" the number of kids and when Jinger can get pregnant. It should be her decision also, but she is too into Babe for her to notice she is being told what is in her best interest by her headship.

[Lukeysboat]

26 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Sad Jeremy might be "allowing" the number of kids and when Jinger can get pregnant. It should be her decision also, but she is too into Babe for her to notice she is being told what is in her best interest by her headship.

To be fair, it’s all speculation. Maybe Jinger doesn’t want a passel of children. I’m hoping that’s the case. 

[BitterApple]

This is probably messed up to say, but if Jeremy is asserting his "authority" and limiting their family size, it may not be such a bad thing. These girls have never been encouraged to think beyond "as many as God gives us." It probably doesn't occur to them that it might be preferable to have two or three kids you can actually bond with and enjoy parenting as opposed to creating such a large army that motherhood amounts to little more than cursory attention and crowd control. 

[bigskygirl]

22 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

This is probably messed up to say, but if Jeremy is asserting his "authority" and limiting their family size, it may not be such a bad thing. These girls have never been encouraged to think beyond "as many as God gives us." It probably doesn't occur to them that it might be preferable to have two or three kids you can actually bond with and enjoy parenting as opposed to creating such a large army that motherhood amounts to little more than cursory attention and crowd control. 

I see your point of view, but it should be up to the both of them, not just Jeremy. Jinger has the right to decide how many children she wants and how many her body can have instead of just turning the decision making over to her headship and/or God (not saying in same ways Jeremy thinks he is God, but...)

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Parenthood and fertility are extremely personal choices and I don’t claim to know what’s best for every person I watch on TV. That said, I feel like I can objectively say that “as many babies as her body can possibly produce before it gives up á la Mumtaz Mahal* or she loses her damn mind and leaves the younger ones to raise themselves while she stares into the near distance and mumbles to herself about Starbucks” is not best for any woman. Jinger was raised in a very niche belief system that requires a virtually impossible set of choices and restrictions. Take my feminist card if you must, but I think it’s a net good thing if Jeremy puts his foot down and says “Thank you, Jesus, for hormonal contraceptives, a beautiful example of common grace in this the year of You, 2018. Hallelujah Amen.”**

 

*She did get a Wonder of the World out of the deal but she didn’t live to see it. 

**Some phrases possibly taken from my own journal. 

[ChiCricket]

9 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Parenthood and fertility are extremely personal choices and I don’t claim to know what’s best for every person I watch on TV. That said, I feel like I can objectively say that “as many babies as her body can possibly produce before it gives up á la Mumtaz Mahal* or she loses her damn mind and leaves the younger ones to raise themselves while she stares into the near distance and mumbles to herself about Starbucks” is not best for any woman. 

*She did get a Wonder of the World out of the deal but she didn’t live to see it. 

I swear I learn something new on these forums every day. I look up things I read on PTV all the time on Google and Urban Dictionary.

(sometimes I'm sorry I did, especially on the meaning of certain words I'd never heard of before.)

;-)

  "Mumtaz Mahal was the inspiration behind the Taj Mahal."

https://www.tajmahal.org.uk/mumtaz-mahal.html

Edited May 7, 2018 by ChiCricket
.

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Parenthood and fertility are extremely personal choices and I don’t claim to know what’s best for every person I watch on TV. That said, I feel like I can objectively say that “as many babies as her body can possibly produce before it gives up á la Mumtaz Mahal* or she loses her damn mind and leaves the younger ones to raise themselves while she stares into the near distance and mumbles to herself about Starbucks” is not best for any woman. Jinger was raised in a very niche belief system that requires a virtually impossible set of choices and restrictions. Take my feminist card if you must, but I think it’s a net good thing if Jeremy puts his foot down and says “Thank you, Jesus, for hormonal contraceptives, a beautiful example of common grace in this the year of You, 2018. Hallelujah Amen.”**

 

*She did get a Wonder of the World out of the deal but she didn’t live to see it. 

**Some phrases possibly taken from my own journal. 

I agree! Even in the old days, before birth control, couples weren't actively trying to have as many children as possible. Many families had 5-10 kids, but very few had 19, even then. Like you said, the belief system Jinger grew up with is extremely rare, even in a time before birth control. Also, sadly many kids didn't make it past their toddler years then, so that cut down on the number of total children that Mom raised at one time. Additionally, many had farms that kept the kids really busy. It has never been *normal* to have 15+ kids all living in a home together, day in and day out. I feel really sorry for the kids who have grown up thinking this IS normal!

[lascuba]

Assuming for a second that Jinger would even tell Jeremy she wants more kids than he does--which would mean that Jeremy is actively putting his foot down as opposed to just assuming he and his wife are on the same page because that's what a reasonable person would do when his wife says she agrees when he hypothetically said he only wants 2-3 kids--I'm going to have to agree that it's a net good. Their dynamic is incredibly fucked up and unhealthy and that's not going to change anytime soon. With that being the reality of their situation...he's older and grew up in the real world. She's an emotional 12 year old who may or may not be totally ok with how she and her siblings were raised. If he's not that major patriarchal asshole I often suspect he is, he's going to have a better understanding of what children to do a marriage than she does (because even with all those siblings her family is a big exception so she has a rosy view of things). Yeah, sure, technically it's awful and she should have just as much of a say, but he's not at all wrong to say that x number of kids is a hard limit for him period. She can either agree, argue with him and refuse sex with contraception, or leave him. Jinger being Jinger, of course she's going to agree. Maybe if she ever becomes a functional adult capable of forming an opinion on her own life and body without first getting Jeremy's input, she can reconsider her options, though by that point, she'd likely genuinely agree about not having many kids. 

Sorry for that monster of a first sentence. I just think that, while an asshole in many respects, when it comes to Jinger he's likely  more oblivious than anything else. I honestly don't see her expressing any ideas until she first hears what he thinks. So when he hypothetically said, "I think it would be a good idea to delay pregnancy for a year," and "You know, I only have two siblings and I really like how that worked out for us and my parents. I think 2-3 kids would be ideal for us," she probably smiled, nodded, and said, "Yeah, for sure!" So if she really does want a lot of children but can't because Jeremy said so, well, that's all on her. Grow a spine.

[Jynnan tonnix]

24 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

I swear I learn something new on these forums every day. I look up things on Google and Urban Dictionary I read on PTV all the time.

(sometimes I'm sorry I did, especially on the meaning of certain words I'd never heard of before.)

;-)

  "Mumtaz Mahal was the inspiration behind the Taj Mahal."

https://www.tajmahal.org.uk/mumtaz-mahal.html

OK...this is not one of the regular ads that show up between posts here - but when I went to the link to learn more about Mumtaz Majal, this was a prominent postscript. Can't be coincidental! LOL 

Quote

 

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Excellent Quality At A Low Price. Call Westchester Memorials Today! westchestermemorials.net

 

[ChiCricket]

7 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

OK...this is not one of the regular ads that show up between posts here - but when I went to the link to learn more about Mumtaz Majal, this was a prominent postscript. Can't be coincidental! LOL 

That's hilarious!

Also, I guess she was a Sister Wife. Who knew? 0_o

 Umm..topic? At least Jinger doesn't have to share her husband. 

[mythoughtis]

I really think that Jeremy honestly tries to get her input on things that affect them both. However, he may not  have gotten Jinger to actually speak up for the first several months. Exposure to others in his church and family may have helped Jinger to understand what an equal partnership is, so she may speak up more now.  I remind you all of Derick asking Jill what her goals were for the next year- and her reply was ‘whatever yours are’.

as for the number of kids to have... it’s got to be a compromise number that results in the children being wanted by both parents. Neither gets to say ‘as many as God gives us’ when the other wants 2.  I remind you all of Josh and Anna. He wanted 2 and she wants as many as possible. 

[Christina87]

The weird thing about Josh and Anna is that in literally any other situation, Josh would have gotten his way. Most of the world would have agreed that two was way better than twenty. Literally the worst place for Josh was to be a star of a TV show that preaches having as many children as the lord will provide, first as the golden boy and then the one in need of redemption. That's the only situation in the world where Anna would get her way, as she has!

Edited May 7, 2018 by Christina87

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I agree! Even in the old days, before birth control, couples weren't actively trying to have as many children as possible. Many families had 5-10 kids, but very few had 19, even then. Like you said, the belief system Jinger grew up with is extremely rare, even in a time before birth control. Also, sadly many kids didn't make it past their toddler years then, so that cut down on the number of total children that Mom raised at one time. Additionally, many had farms that kept the kids really busy. It has never been *normal* to have 15+ kids all living in a home together, day in and day out. I feel really sorry for the kids who have grown up thinking this IS normal!

Very true. JB and Michelle wouldn't have 19 kids now if they had to do raise their own kids. After the laundry, cleaning, cooking, teaching, changing diapers, nursing, potty training and a million other things parents who raise their kids have to do.  

[duggarshow]

On 4/29/2018 at 10:51 AM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Your friendly neighborhood introvert here, just popping in to remind everyone that introversion and shyness are not the same thing AT ALL! I’m very introverted and definitely not shy. I need a LOT of time alone but when I am around people I’m outgoing and “normal” (whatever that means). It’s totally possible to be a shy extrovert, too.

There’s a book out now called Blessed Are the Misfits that addresses this. I haven’t read it yet because I’m kind of afraid it will open up some stuff I’d been avoiding, but I think it’s an important message: Christian introverts are not living in sin and rebellion!

 

1

AMEN!! I'm an introvert, too, but not shy. There's a book I love called, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. It's available on Amazon. I hope you'll consider giving it a whirl. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

1 minute ago, duggarfan said:

AMEN!! I'm an introvert, too, but not shy. There's a book I love called, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. It's available on Amazon. I hope you'll consider giving it a whirl. 

I own it! Hard copy AND ebook! ?

[duggarshow]

1 minute ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I own it! Hard copy AND ebook! ?

Awesome!! 

[DragonFaerie]

Well, I'm gonna have to look at that book for sure.  Introvert flag waving over here.  Right, back to yard work.  

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:37 PM, libgirl2 said:

I was lucky that wasn't an issue. Growing up I always had naturally curly hair. No perm needed, just a really nice curl. I also dyed my hair every color imaginable. After my son was born, my hair wouldn't curl and I tried to color it red again and found I had an allergy to hair dye. It took years (my son is 24) but my curl is back, but I still have a hair dye allergy and can just about tolerate blonde. Just a bit of an itch, but no blisters! And I even tried natural dyes and no luck. 

My BFF was diagnosed with breast cancer in her early 40's and had a bilateral mastectomy and chemotherapy.  Her hair had been naturally auburn and grew back plain old brown.  She'd always had very full "Brooke Shields" eyebrows, and they've grown back pencil thin and lighter than her hair.  She'd also always had very wavy hair and it's now straight as can be.

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:06 PM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Parenthood and fertility are extremely personal choices and I don’t claim to know what’s best for every person I watch on TV. That said, I feel like I can objectively say that “as many babies as her body can possibly produce before it gives up á la Mumtaz Mahal* or she loses her damn mind and leaves the younger ones to raise themselves while she stares into the near distance and mumbles to herself about Starbucks” is not best for any woman. Jinger was raised in a very niche belief system that requires a virtually impossible set of choices and restrictions. Take my feminist card if you must, but I think it’s a net good thing if Jeremy puts his foot down and says “Thank you, Jesus, for hormonal contraceptives, a beautiful example of common grace in this the year of You, 2018. Hallelujah Amen.”**

 

*She did get a Wonder of the World out of the deal but she didn’t live to see it. 

**Some phrases possibly taken from my own journal. 

Obviously I have no idea how their family planning works either, but if Jeremy is calling the shots and ALSO dictates that it's Jinger alone who will bear the burden of the birth control, it would be another reason for me to be annoyed by him.  There are no side effects to wearing condoms.

[ChiCricket]

2 hours ago, duggarfan said:

AMEN!! I'm an introvert, too, but not shy. There's a book I love called, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. It's available on Amazon. I hope you'll consider giving it a whirl. 

I just saved myself $10 by checking it out from my library for my kindle. :)

[Tabbygirl521]

On 4/28/2018 at 4:30 PM, BitterApple said:

Is that a paid promo? Why would she be reading a book about dating the wrong guy when she's already married?

Also, the Duggar method of courtship is the absolute antithesis of what you should be doing if you want to find and develop a healthy relationship, so this is rather interesting.

 

Maybe she’s reading up on situations she and Jeremy may encounter as pastor/wife, so they can advise and counsel. Or maybe she’s thinking about her younger sibs. 

She also shows signs of not being totally on board with the way she was raised, and we know Jeremy comes from a more normal background. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Tabbygirl521

[Barb23]

Did Jinge & Jer say anything during their wedding ceremony about how many children they would like or if they are leaving it up to God?  

[Sew Sumi]

Not that we were shown. I think that the only couple we actually heard say that in their vows (onscreen) was Smuganna.