The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Churchhoney]

46 minutes ago, bythelake said:

@Churchhoney It's going to have to eventually change. The married girls and Josh all received some money from the show, and if Counting On is renewed, there will be more. The younger ones don't have that luxury. So as the years go by, these uneducated, unmotivated kids (mostly boys) will have no source of income. It seems that none them has the initiative or inquisitiveness  to leave, and if they eventually marry will  have to depend on JB to throw them a crumb in the way of a menial job. They will be tethered to him for life. The younger girls only hope is to marry someone who has a job since they have few skills as well. If things don't change, the next generation will be as poor or worse than their parents who were living on love gifts from their church before TLC came along.

Yep! I think so.

That's why I've been ever-so-eager for their shows to go off the air as soon as their first show got on the air! .... I can't stand the thought that their "success" with this crap is out there on TeeVee encouraging some idiots to continue believing that JB's "methods" are a good and workable idea. When their "success" actually comes courtesy of a damn TeeVee show that proves absolutely zero about the "success" of the way they live (but seems to for those who are longing to believe in it because of some misguided sick "nostalgia" or something.).

Curse you, TLC! 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

Nice picture.  That's two in a row that are not silly!!!   (the snow one and the tree pose)

[kokapetl]

19 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

What's with all the secular lyrics all of a sudden?

The weekend news anchor wishes you Happy Holidays!

[lascuba]

18 hours ago, Temperance said:

Which fansites are these? I thought the fans were endlessly loyal.  I have no real knowledge of why they turned on Jessa and Joy if true they've turned, but I would guess it has to do with Jessa's housekeeping and maybe the rumors about Joy? It's stupid to turn on Joy over rumors. 

They have no idea what JimBob and Michelle had paid or not. My guess is with so many kids they probably got quite a bit of help from JB's parents (Mary) or maybe even Michelle's father when he lived with them.

I'm annoyed that they blame the girls for losing the way. It says a lot about their fans they're worried more about the girls turning out too wild than Josh (who freeloaded a lot of stuff during the early years of 19K&C)  or Michelle and JB after Joshgate I. I know they're probably biblical christian patriarchs...

There's only one fansite that I check out occasionally, and they've posted the rare complaint about the girls losing their way. I'm not sure it's about biblical patriarchy so much, since I get the impression that the fans who post online are nowhere near as religious as the Duggars. I think it's more that they've spent years defending their admiration of the family, that's they've gotten into heated arguments with strangers online, that they saw the Duggars as an ideal that, while they haven't tried to live up to, proves that things will be perfect if they decide to take the plunge.  So now those fans look stupid, because they've defended the family so much over the years and some of them dared to demonstrate that they, in fact, don't believe every single thing they once said they did. That's gotta sting, to know you were more invested in someone's beliefs than they were. 

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, ginger90 said:

The picture is nice, but Jeremy needs a new suit.

How does he even move in that thing?  I imagine he's always wiggling around trying to pull the back out of his crack.  Jeremy is obsessed with his image, so I'm sure the skin tight suit is deliberate to show off his assets. Definitely a metrosexual in every way sans politics.  I would have no patience with fighting my husband for mirror and counter space.  Jingle is probably stuck sitting in the armchair holding his man bag while he twirls in the dressing room mirror.

[cdp73]

The jacket looks like it's too short.

[DangerousMinds]

And too tight.

[xwordfanatik]

Jer is the type that acts like everything he does is admired, and he's always "on."  Conceited narcissist.  

If Jin is happy with that, good.

[Marigold]

12 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Jer is the type that acts like everything he does is admired, and he's always "on."  Conceited narcissist.  

If Jin is happy with that, good.

YES!  He is always "on". Very perky and emotional. 

To me, that feels insincere. I prefer people who are more real.  Jeremy doesn't feel real to me. Of course, i have never met him so who knows?

[leighdear]

It's most likely an older suit and Jeremy is probably no longer as athletic as he used to be.  It can happen easily in the first years of marriage that one or both put on a few pounds as they adjust to each other's habits.  Plus, those romantic dinners for 2 are hard to resist.  

Jinger just seems to drink coffee, so I doubt she's feeding him too much, but he may be a closet fast-food junkie, and they just don't let us see it.  Or she's a terrible cook, and he eats it all just to be encouraging!  *LOL*

I think she looks adorable in the shirt-dress, and I actually love the furry vest.  It's probably faux fur, but I think it looks cute with the outfit and suits her quirky style.   

[amitville]

1 minute ago, leighdear said:

It's most likely an older suit and Jeremy is probably no longer as athletic as he used to be.  It can happen easily in the first years of marriage that one or both put on a few pounds as they adjust to each other's habits.  Plus, those romantic dinners for 2 are hard to resist.  

Jinger just seems to drink coffee, so I doubt she's feeding him too much, but he may be a closet fast-food junkie, and they just don't let us see it.  Or she's a terrible cook, and he eats it all just to be encouraging!  *LOL*

I think she looks adorable in the shirt-dress, and I actually love the furry vest.  It's probably faux fur, but I think it looks cute with the outfit and suits her quirky style.   

I think Jinger  looks amazing stylish over the moon happy and wildly in love

[jcbrown]

2 hours ago, Marigold said:

YES!  He is always "on". Very perky and emotional. 

To me, that feels insincere. I prefer people who are more real.  Jeremy doesn't feel real to me. Of course, i have never met him so who knows?

I originally read this as insecure and I think that applies, as well.

[bigskygirl]

1 hour ago, amitville said:

I think Jinger  looks amazing stylish over the moon happy and wildly in love

Hmmm... I do not think Jinger is wildly in love. Jeremy is the first guy outside JB and her brothers to give her the time of day. Honestly I do not think any of the Duggar daughters know what love really is. She may be just happy someone outside her family is giving her constant attention, and she is not a number in a long line of people in the house. She went from JB calling the shots over her life to Jeremy calling the shots. In some ways, Jeremy reminds me of a teacher with his favorite young student. She laps up all the attention she can get from him, and he is enjoying the adoring looks and the ole he is the greatest thing in my life messages she sends to him.

[ariel]

9 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Hmmm... I do not think Jinger is wildly in love. Jeremy is the first guy outside JB and her brothers to give her the time of day. Honestly I do not think any of the Duggar daughters know what love really is. She may be just happy someone outside her family is giving her constant attention, and she is not a number in a long line of people in the house. She went from JB calling the shots over her life to Jeremy calling the shots. In some ways, Jeremy reminds me of a teacher with his favorite young student. She laps up all the attention she can get from him, and he is enjoying the adoring looks and the ole he is the greatest thing in my life messages she sends to him.

I think that's why he chose her.  I don't think a worldly educated woman would be interested in him.

Edited December 11, 2017 by ariel

[PikaScrewChu]

On 12/9/2017 at 6:30 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

Whatever the reasons, it’s ultimately THEIR business, and NOT Boob’s.

100%. Unfortunately JB and Michelle seem to be the prying type and believe that the children should bow down to their will. It probably irritates them to no end that JinJer do not have a #BabyVuolo on the way. JB and Michelle are about to get their 10th grandchild. They will have at least 5 more if Anna is as fertile as her sister Esther.

Some people unfortunately are obsessed with the whole idea of "grandbabies" and getting as many as possible. Some people need to count their blessings and release they had their chance for children already. No one is owed grandchildren.

Fortunately for Jinger she is all the way in Laredo and can easily shrug off the comments with "Sorry Ma and Pa, oven is on fire! Must be important. Gotta go!".

[leighdear]

I don't recall JB & Michelle ever saying anything anywhere about being frustrated with a lack of grandchildren coming from the Texas duo.  Or any of the other family members saying anybody was putting pressure on Jing & Babe to procreate.  That's pure speculation that Jim Bob wants this, or Michelle wants that, or they demand whatever. 

I know we all throw a bunch of crap out there, but I've never read a single thing supporting any Dugger anger about the Vuolo's remaining child-free.   

To me, these two look happier together and act happier together than any of the other couples on the shows.  It could be for a dozen different reasons.  Or maybe they are just really into each other.  Yeah, I'm going with that.  YMMV.

[awaken]

6 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I don't recall JB & Michelle ever saying anything anywhere about being frustrated with a lack of grandchildren coming from the Texas duo.  Or any of the other family members saying anybody was putting pressure on Jing & Babe to procreate.  That's pure speculation that Jim Bob wants this, or Michelle wants that, or they demand whatever. 

Except for Jill asking her “are ya pregnit?” During every filmed Skype call. 

[leighdear]

That's ignorant, nosy, sister prying, not necessarily pressure.  It's the same as every breeder wanting everybody else to be saddled with what they have.  

[doodlebug]

50 minutes ago, leighdear said:

That's ignorant, nosy, sister prying, not necessarily pressure.  It's the same as every breeder wanting everybody else to be saddled with what they have.  

JB and M have repeatedly commented on the number of grandkids they hope to have (triple digits), so its not that big a leap for us to presume they want Jinger and Babe to get to work and do their share.

[BitterApple]

Jinger looks really pretty in the Christmas tree picture. She seems happy and has thrived since fleeing the TTH. I know Jeremy isn't exactly a favorite on here, but  out of the Duggar kids, Jinger is the closest thing to a functioning adult. I have to believe his influence is at least partly responsible for that, smarmy Instagram posts aside.

[Heathen]

15 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Jinger looks really pretty in the Christmas tree picture. She seems happy and has thrived since fleeing the TTH. I know Jeremy isn't exactly a favorite on here, but  out of the Duggar kids, Jinger is the closest thing to a functioning adult. I have to believe his influence is at least partly responsible for that, smarmy Instagram posts aside.

Jeremy couldn't please a lot of people if he turned into Barack Obama and then sprouted a halo. I agree he's at least partly responsible for Jinger's growth and that she's very much in love with him. 

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

JB and M have repeatedly commented on the number of grandkids they hope to have (triple digits), so its not that big a leap for us to presume they want Jinger and Babe to get to work and do their share.

Each child is going to have to average 10.5 children so the Duggars can have their "200 grandchildren".

This is a family that is obsessed with fecundity. Gotta bank on once people get bored with the current Duggars that they will be obsessed with their eleventy billion grandchildren and have a reality show based on that. They're playing the long game here.

[sixlets]

The pressure to 'be fruitful, multiply, and give me/us a grandchild(ren)' is very real and common in many families.  Mr. Six & I didn't get to decide if we wanted children.  My body did that for us.  It has absolutely nothing to do with fertility either.  I wonder how Boob & Mechelle would handle the situation if it were one of their daughters or daughter-in-law.  We have nothing but support from his parents and my mom (my dad passed away 7+ years ago).  Yet, I still harbor much guilt over them never becoming grandparents.  On top of it all, we are both only children.  It was us or nothing, and here we are...

[bigskygirl]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Jinger looks really pretty in the Christmas tree picture. She seems happy and has thrived since fleeing the TTH. I know Jeremy isn't exactly a favorite on here, but  out of the Duggar kids, Jinger is the closest thing to a functioning adult. I have to believe his influence is at least partly responsible for that, smarmy Instagram posts aside.

Sad state of affairs if Jinger is the closet thing to a functioning adult in the Duggar clan because Jeremy married her and treats her like his own personal student. He has more influence over her right now than JB does. I would like to see Jinger come into her own without Jeremy leading the way. She should be able to "adult" without someone holding her hand and treating her like a child. Now listen to Babe and cling to him, and he will rid you of your Duggar ways inch by inch.

[Westiepeach]

20 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Sad state of affairs if Jinger is the closet thing to a functioning adult in the Duggar clan because Jeremy married her and treats her like his own personal student. He has more influence over her right now than JB does. I would like to see Jinger come into her own without Jeremy leading the way. She should be able to "adult" without someone holding her hand and treating her like a child. Now listen to Babe and cling to him, and he will rid you of your Duggar ways inch by inch.

I agree 1000% with everything you said here. But she has no idea how to "adult" without someone leading the way.

[ariel]

When they were courting Babe did say what he liked about Jinger was that she is "meek".  Meek is often a code word for submissive.  To many people that's a red flag. In Duggar world it is not.

Edited December 12, 2017 by ariel

[MonicaM]

My parents were very controlling, maybe worse than Ma and Pa, if that's possible.  I'm introverted and shy by nature, and their controlling ways reinforced this and my insecurities.  I'm quite sure that when we first married, my husband could have described me as "meek".  However, he was/is very supportive of me, and now, after more than thirty years, no one would describe me as meek.  I have self confidence and never hesitate to stand up for myself or others if the need arises.  I'm hoping for a similar outcome with Jinger.  Only time will tell, of course, but she seems to be moving in the right direction.    

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Each child is going to have to average 10.5 children so the Duggars can have their "200 grandchildren".

This is a family that is obsessed with fecundity. Gotta bank on once people get bored with the current Duggars that they will be obsessed with their eleventy billion grandchildren and have a reality show based on that. They're playing the long game here.

Well, every child would have to have 5 - 6 children in order for JB and Michelle to have 100 grandchildren. I could see the Smuggars having more than 5, and perhaps Benessa, Joystin, and JoKen would have more than five kids. I think 15 - 20 of those grandkids could come from Joystin alone. Let's say Anna does have Esther's fertility, she could add on 10 more kids (her existing 5 plus 5 more M kids). Add Benessa and JoKen and they would probably make up at least half of the requisite 100. Not sure about the Dillards or JinJer...maybe 5 - 10 more between the two sets of couples. Even if Jana and JD do not marry or have kids, there are still 11 other kids (Josiah, and everyone younger than Joy) not yet accounted for who, between them, would produce the remaining 40 - 45 grandkids. 100 grandkids can totally be done.  

[leighdear]

35 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

I agree 1000% with everything you said here. But she has no idea how to "adult" without someone leading the way.

How do you know this? 

I don't understand what shows you watch or photos you see that show Jinger being a subservient child being led by her husband and unable to act like an adult.  

Because he once referred to her as "meek"?  That is such a stretch.  

[lascuba]

Serious question...in what way has Jinger grown since getting married? I'm not saying that as a dig against her, it's just, other than the pants wearing and general happiness, I don't see this big change in her, or any proof that she's more of a functioning adult than she was before marrying. 

[ariel]

4 minutes ago, leighdear said:

How do you know this? 

I don't understand what shows you watch or photos you see that show Jinger being a subservient child being led by her husband and unable to act like an adult.  

Because he once referred to her as "meek"?  That is such a stretch.  

I don't think it's a stretch at all when Babe himself said he was attracted to Jinger because she is meek.  How is that a stretch?  

[McManda]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

or any proof that she's more of a functioning adult than she was before marrying. 

I think it's more to do with the opportunity she has now to be her own person rather than just one-of-ninteen that she was before she married. She's also the only one so far to seemingly try to forge her own life as a married person, rather than staying close to her family or running back to the TTH every three months.

She might be submissive to Jeremy (which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing, depending) but she's more of her own person as "Jinger and Jeremy" than she was as "one of the nineteen " and that's a good start.

I was raised in a far more progressive family than Jinger but I still struggle to be an adult sometimes. I wouldn't say I'm submissive; I have my own thoughts and feelings and ideas and will voice and act on them, but I also wouldn't/don't mind someone else leading the way sometimes, either.

[leighdear]

6 minutes ago, ariel said:

I don't think it's a stretch at all when Babe himself said he was attracted to Jinger because she is meek.  How is that a stretch?  

Being meek is simply a personality trait. It does not mean that adult cannot function at a level above that of a child.  And meek does not mean weak.  That is the stretch I am referring to. 

He may enjoy her mild personality, as opposed to the stronger personality of somebody like Jessa.  It doesn't mean he wants to marry a child or that Jinger cannot make decisions on her own. 

[ariel]

The meaning of meek:

submissive, yielding, obedient, compliant, tame, biddable, tractable, acquiescent, humble, deferential, timid, unprotesting, unresisting, like a lamb to the slaughter; 

quiet, mild, gentle, docile, lamblike, shy, diffident, unassuming, self-effacing

I wouldn't consider being referred to as meek a complement

Edited December 12, 2017 by ariel

[Triple P]

51 minutes ago, MonicaM said:

My parents were very controlling, maybe worse than Ma and Pa, if that's possible.  I'm introverted and shy by nature, and their controlling ways reinforced this and my insecurities.  I'm quite sure that when we first married, my husband could have described me as "meek".  However, he was/is very supportive of me, and now, after more than thirty years, no one would describe me as meek.  I have self confidence and never hesitate to stand up for myself or others if the need arises.  I'm hoping for a similar outcome with Jinger.  Only time will tell, of course, but she seems to be moving in the right direction.    

I hope Jeremy is instilling confidence in Jinger. I don't recall which episode it was in, but he said that she doubts her capabilities when she shouldn't. (Paraphrased).

[MonicaM]

14 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Serious question...in what way has Jinger grown since getting married? I'm not saying that as a dig against her, it's just, other than the pants wearing and general happiness, I don't see this big change in her, or any proof that she's more of a functioning adult than she was before marrying. 

The mere fact that she isn't living in one of Pa's houses shows a certain amount of growth, or at least more potential for growth than any of the other married couples.  Maybe she's only wearing pants because her husband commands that she do so, but it's a step forward that she's listening to her husband and not her father.  

I know it's difficult because the bar is set so low with these people, but I tend to see any step out from under Jim Bob's control as a growth.  

[cmr2014]

39 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Serious question...in what way has Jinger grown since getting married? I'm not saying that as a dig against her, it's just, other than the pants wearing and general happiness, I don't see this big change in her, or any proof that she's more of a functioning adult than she was before marrying. 

I think a lot of people on this board see themselves in some way in this family (come from a large family, family is super-fundie, controlling parents, etc.). I think it's very likely that we read our own stories into theirs at times and our assumptions about their experiences are based on our own memories of similar situations.

For all the snark on the board, think that everyone has been very hopeful as each of the kiddults marries that "this time will be different." Like a lot of others, I had high hopes for Derick: college educated, from a small, seemingly normal family, etc. I wouldn't dislike Derick so much if I hadn't had real hopes that he would encourage Jill to get an education, that they would move abroad and wave bye-bye to the TTH, that they would wait to start a family until they were established in a mission post, etc.

So far, Jinger / Jeremy seem like they are taking baby steps away from the miasma of JB and J'chelle, Gothard, etc. The fact that Jinger wears pants is actually a pretty big deal. The fact that she appears happy is more than I can say for any of her siblings. The fact that they are one year in to their marriage and 1) she isn't pregnant and 2) they aren't living at the TTH make them a huge success story

[bigskygirl]

3 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think a lot of people on this board see themselves in some way in this family (come from a large family, family is super-fundie, controlling parents, etc.). I think it's very likely that we read our own stories into theirs at times and our assumptions about their experiences are based on our own memories of similar situations.

For all the snark on the board, think that everyone has been very hopeful as each of the kiddults marries that "this time will be different." Like a lot of others, I had high hopes for Derick: college educated, from a small, seemingly normal family, etc. I wouldn't dislike Derick so much if I hadn't had real hopes that he would encourage Jill to get an education, that they would move abroad and wave bye-bye to the TTH, that they would wait to start a family until they were established in a mission post, etc.

So far, Jinger / Jeremy seem like they are taking baby steps away from the miasma of JB and J'chelle, Gothard, etc. The fact that Jinger wears pants is actually a pretty big deal. The fact that she appears happy is more than I can say for any of her siblings. The fact that they are one year in to their marriage and 1) she isn't pregnant and 2) they aren't living at the TTH make them a huge success story

I agree! I admit I cannot stand Jinger or Jeremy, but compared to Jill, Jessa, Joy, and Anna, she is far ahead of them.

Edited December 12, 2017 by bigskygirl

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Serious question...in what way has Jinger grown since getting married? I'm not saying that as a dig against her, it's just, other than the pants wearing and general happiness, I don't see this big change in her, or any proof that she's more of a functioning adult than she was before marrying. 

Yeah, this is my thought, too. I do think it's perfectly possible that she is more mature, capable, high-functioning and independent than Jill or Jessa. It's possible that any one of the Duggar kids is a more competent person than any of the others.

But I wouldn't declare it to be true of Jinger until I've seen some actual evidence of it.

Among other things, she hasn't faced any tests yet. No living in a foreign country where no one speaks your language, no expectations even at the level that Jill had as a quasi "missionary," no children, no difficult births, no illnesses in those close to her, etc. I've seen her socialize some but I haven't seen her actually being expected to reach out to the members of Jer's church or even play the piano there or anything. I haven't even seen her have to spend time with a black rapper in a strange city and look like she's liking it or give speeches about modest dressing. She's never even had to cope with pregnancy yet.

She's understandably a happy person, getting to wear new kinds of fun clothes, living with a guy she adores who seems to have plenty of time to just hang out with her and play about while her TeeVee money sustains them and he's able to take repeated vacations. Maybe she's doing a lot more than it looks like, but to me she just seems to be playing, really. And I certainly don't begrudge her that. All the Duggar kids deserve some fun and freedom like that, I think.

But when it comes to whether she's a lot more mature and stable than her married sisters , I'd rather wait to judge her maturity until she goes through some of the things they have.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Churchhoney

[McManda]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I'd rather wait to judge her maturity until she goes through some of the things they have.

I'd agree, except I think that some of her maturity might come from not having the same experiences as her sisters.

For example, she (presumably) had the foresight to not get knocked up on her honeymoon (or to not try to convince her headship that it must be babies above all) and give herself a chance to settle into being a wife before becoming a mom. She pushed herself (or let herself be pushed) toward smaller changes that she could handle and that are a big for her lifestyle- wearing pants, not spending every week with her family. 

I see it more like she knew her limits and didn't try to take on too much too quickly. Jill might have moved to Danger America and quickly broke and hasn't recovered. Jessa might be preaching modern modest and is social media savvy but she's still living the same life she was before she got married. There's not really much doubt that so far Jinger is the best success story. It's a low bar to be sure, but at least she's showing some positive growth.

[drafan]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

How do you know this? 

I don't understand what shows you watch or photos you see that show Jinger being a subservient child being led by her husband and unable to act like an adult.  

Because he once referred to her as "meek"?  That is such a stretch.  

They all use "meek" when they mean "humble".

((Egads! I'm defending them!!!! But we've had the discussion of this term before.))

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, MonicaM said:

The mere fact that she isn't living in one of Pa's houses shows a certain amount of growth, or at least more potential for growth than any of the other married couples.  Maybe she's only wearing pants because her husband commands that she do so, but it's a step forward that she's listening to her husband and not her father.  

I know it's difficult because the bar is set so low with these people, but I tend to see any step out from under Jim Bob's control as a growth.  

But that's not her, really. It's a good thing for sure, but it's the result of marrying a man already semi-settled fairly far from her family (which is actually a step up from what I thought would happen, Jeremy seeming so eager to jump on the Duggar bandwagon that I thought they'd be back in Arkansas within a year). Jinger, herself, hasn't said or done anything novel. It's been well established that the Duggar girls have occasionally worn pants in private for years. Listening to her husband instead of her father is only a step forward because of sheer, dumb luck. She'd be listening to him if he were even worse than JB. 

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, this is my thought, too. I do think it's perfectly possible that she is more mature, capable, high-functioning and independent than Jill or Jessa. It's possible that any one of the Duggar kids is a more competent person than any of the others.

But I wouldn't declare it to be true of Jinger until I've seen some actual evidence of it.

Among other things, she hasn't faced any tests yet. No living in a foreign country where no one speaks your language, no expectations even at the level that Jill had as a quasi "missionary," no children, no difficult births, no illnesses in those close to her, etc. I've seen her socialize some but I haven't seen her actually being expected to reach out to the members of Jer's church or even play the piano there or anything. I haven't even seen her have to spend time with a black rapper in a strange city and look like she's liking it or give speeches about modest dressing. She's never even had to cope with pregnancy yet.

She's understandably a happy person, getting to wear new kinds of fun clothes, living with a guy she adores who seems to have plenty of time to just hang out with her and play about while her TeeVee money sustains them and he's able to take repeated vacations. Maybe she's doing a lot more than it looks like, but to me she just seems to be playing, really. And I certainly don't begrudge her that. All the Duggar kids deserve some fun and freedom like that, I think.

But when it comes to whether she's a lot more mature and stable than her married sisters , I'd rather wait to judge her maturity until she goes through some of the things they have.

Yes to all of this. She's existing, being herself and having a great time. Good. But she seems to me to be the exact same person she always has been. She's never been as emotionally attached to her family or the Duggar brand as Jill and Jessa were. She's always been more outgoing than Jessa, so while not as strong a personality, it's not surprising that she'd have an easier time in new surroundings. Jessa herself called it when she said Jinger needed to marry someone who lived in a city and brought her coffee. 

An interesting test would be when/if Jeremy every works a real job and is away from home for most of the day and she has nothing to do. Because you're right, she is, essentially, playing, which is good, but it's not the kind of thing that leads to personal growth. You can't really grow and mature when everything is so easy for you, with financial security without having to do much  coupled with spending time with someone you're really into and never having a chance to grow bored. How can she be considered a more functional adult now than before her marriage when she has had no need to function as an adult since getting married? 

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

I think a lot of people on this board see themselves in some way in this family (come from a large family, family is super-fundie, controlling parents, etc.). I think it's very likely that we read our own stories into theirs at times and our assumptions about their experiences are based on our own memories of similar situations.

For all the snark on the board, think that everyone has been very hopeful as each of the kiddults marries that "this time will be different." Like a lot of others, I had high hopes for Derick: college educated, from a small, seemingly normal family, etc. I wouldn't dislike Derick so much if I hadn't had real hopes that he would encourage Jill to get an education, that they would move abroad and wave bye-bye to the TTH, that they would wait to start a family until they were established in a mission post, etc.

So far, Jinger / Jeremy seem like they are taking baby steps away from the miasma of JB and J'chelle, Gothard, etc. The fact that Jinger wears pants is actually a pretty big deal. The fact that she appears happy is more than I can say for any of her siblings. The fact that they are one year in to their marriage and 1) she isn't pregnant and 2) they aren't living at the TTH make them a huge success story

I think that's the issue for me...I've just always assumed the worst in anyone who want to marry a Duggar and take it from there. Derick came in as a "missionary" who requested JB as a prayer partner...I considered him trash from day one. Never trust anyone who  becomes more religious than his parents. Because of that, I don't exactly have hope for any of the kids, exactly. I assume there will be some differences from how they were raised, but overall, even the cosmetic changes like pants don't mean much to me besides being entertaining. I find it interesting and intend to keep an eye out as long as they're public enough for the internet to keep me informed, and I like to imagine JB being endlessly annoyed by the changes, but until one of them pulls a Cynthia Jeub, it's all just cosmetic. I know that these things don't typically happen in a dramatic fashion and that baby steps are important, but if all the baby steps so far only result in looking better while having shitty beliefs...meh. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by lascuba
Public and private are two different things.

[Marigold]

I think Jinger is the pretty much the same person as before but she hitched her cart to a better guy.  Her life is going to look much better because of it.  

[queenanne]

It seems like Jeremy is a better (off) person than most (if not all) of the adult Duggar kids, because the Vuolos believe in releasing the reins at the end of the childrearing process.  Even the most cursory skim of the information out there, yields clear and obvious clues to his brother and sister's relative miles more freedom than the Duggars now; and Jeremy's back in the soccer days.  They were clearly trusted to make their own decisions going out and about with all these secular scandalous cohorts, to decide if they wanted to drink alcohol in moderation, etc.  They don't seem blanket-trained, hands-slapped, or spirit-broken like naturally-behaving foals.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, queenanne said:

It seems like Jeremy is a better (off) person than most (if not all) of the adult Duggar kids, because the Vuolos believe in releasing the reins at the end of the childrearing process.  Even the most cursory skim of the information out there, yields clear and obvious clues to his brother and sister's relative miles more freedom than the Duggars now; and Jeremy's back in the soccer days.  They were clearly trusted to make their own decisions going out and about with all these secular scandalous cohorts, to decide if they wanted to drink alcohol in moderation, etc.  They don't seem blanket-trained, hands-slapped, or spirit-broken like naturally-behaving foals.

Yeah, they pretty clearly all get freedom while also enjoying parental support. The Duggarlings, meanwhile, don't even get very great support when they do do everything their ridiculous parents say. And if they didn't, I expect they fear they wouldn't get any -- unless they're Josh (and even he didn't get the right kinds of support.)

[Zahdii]

3 hours ago, queenanne said:

They don't seem blanket-trained, hands-slapped, or spirit-broken like naturally-behaving foals.

I initially read that is "spirit-broken natural fools!"

[Churchhoney]

15 hours ago, McManda said:

I'd agree, except I think that some of her maturity might come from not having the same experiences as her sisters.

For example, she (presumably) had the foresight to not get knocked up on her honeymoon (or to not try to convince her headship that it must be babies above all) and give herself a chance to settle into being a wife before becoming a mom. She pushed herself (or let herself be pushed) toward smaller changes that she could handle and that are a big for her lifestyle- wearing pants, not spending every week with her family. 

I see it more like she knew her limits and didn't try to take on too much too quickly. Jill might have moved to Danger America and quickly broke and hasn't recovered. Jessa might be preaching modern modest and is social media savvy but she's still living the same life she was before she got married. There's not really much doubt that so far Jinger is the best success story. It's a low bar to be sure, but at least she's showing some positive growth.

The difference between you and me is that I'd be surprised if any of this is due to Jinger's foresight. I think it's pretty plain that Jeremy didn't want kids right away either and knew that since he had a wife a few years younger that would work out fine. Seems to me that the evidence is very strong that what he really wants to do right now is play around and enjoy himself and take pictures of them in fun outfits, not change diapers at 2 am.

I do agree that Jinger almost certainly didn't want kids right away either. But since I'm about 100 percent certain that Jeremy REALLY didn't want kids right away, I don't think Jinger had to do anything to make this happen. 

And what she would have done if Jeremy or another spouse had wanted a baby right away is completely unknown. And since I don't see any evidence of actual Jinger decisions or actions that surprise me, for me the jury is still out on whether her psyche is doing better in any substantial way. 

I do think that this play period makes it more likely that she will do better in the long run, though. I think she's getting the chance to get some things out of her system and live for herself a bit in ways that most people really need to if they're going to feel satisfied in more demanding adult roles later. Wild oats and all that. But since I think she's just lucky to have gotten that chance, I don't really see doing it now as being much to her credit or proving much of anything about her, one way or another.

I just see her living out the teenagerdom she never got to have. And I think that's good and healthy and great to, unlike Jill, for example, have the chance to do it before you have kids.  But I don't think she got the chance to do it because she was wise or strong or anything. She just lucked out, as far as I can tell. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Natalie68]

On 12/10/2017 at 4:56 PM, RedheadZombie said:

How does he even move in that thing?  I imagine he's always wiggling around trying to pull the back out of his crack.  Jeremy is obsessed with his image, so I'm sure the skin tight suit is deliberate to show off his assets. Definitely a metrosexual in every way sans politics.  I would have no patience with fighting my husband for mirror and counter space.  Jingle is probably stuck sitting in the armchair holding his man bag while he twirls in the dressing room mirror.

I keep seeing this and ALL I want to do is go home to my giant tub of Jingle Jangle.  If you have not been introduced to Jingle Jangle you need to check it out.  It is at Trader Joes.  Sinful.

I am hoping they have 2 bathrooms at their house.  It would be more efficient since I am assuming he spends as much time on his countenance as she does.

[Sew Sumi]

Probably more, discounting whatever Jinger is doing to fry her hair these days.

[Natalie68]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:03 PM, leighdear said:

That's ignorant, nosy, sister prying, not necessarily pressure.  It's the same as every breeder wanting everybody else to be saddled with what they have.  

It is pressure when you don't want to hear it.  At Xmas one year between my Mormon grandmother and my mom hounding us I finally blew (the champagne may have helped) and told everyone to clear the table, Mr. Natalie and I were going to get right at it.  After it came out of my mouth I was really embarrassed but it certainly stopped the questions.  I never ask.  I figure if there is news I will be told.