Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[ganesh]

Season 1 of True Detective wasn't the best thing ever. There was a lot of complaining how the ending wasn't Something that seems to be forgotten now. It was a good show. I bet Season 2 will also be a good show. It's not going to be like Season 1 because it was never intended to be like Season 1. I need to let this go. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Seriously, though, on another message board I frequent, whenever there's a Buffy topic, someone always, ALWAYS has to bring up how much Willow and Xander suck, and then more people join in, and it turns into a big ol' Willow-and-Xander-are-the-worst hatefest. It warms my cold black heart, because I hated them both. 

 

I would be more okay with the Xander hate if the same standard of behavior was applied as thoroughly and consistently to Willow. And to a lesser extent Buffy, who also thought it was her place to criticize his relationships and denigrate who he was dating despite the fact that she hated it when he did the same thing to her. Like its supposed to be cute when they're doing it, but if he's doing it then its "bullying" or something.

[galax-arena]

I feel like you and I have already gone over this multiple times, but whatever, I'm all for beating a dead horse, so two points:

 

1. Nice Guys are a much bigger problem out there in the real world, so people are going to have a more kneejerk/visceral reaction to Xander's behavior. I know a lot of people (myself included) who didn't have as much of an issue with Xander when we initially watched the show because we had yet to encounter the phenomenon known as the Nice Guy. And then I went to college and found out that they exist and are incredibly gross and creepy, and now I can't stand it. And I can't stand it when (mostly male) writers prop up that sort of character. It's a sexist trope perpetuating the idea that men are entitled to women. While I don't think that anyone is entitled to a relationship "because I'm such a nice person" regardless of gender (so please do shut up, Willow), double standards in how people react to certain characters aren't necessarily bad when they're a result of seeing the characters as a reflection of how they operate in the real world and how pop culture treats them. But then, I don't think double standards in general are by default teh evil, either. Sometimes double standards exist for a good reason thanks to power structures/imbalances or what have you. Women thinking that they're entitled to men is not such a big problem in the real world (including the media) as the reverse, so people react to the tropes differently. It's why misogyny is a thing while misandry isn't. 

 

2. Like I've said, people hate on Willow plenty. But they're not going to gripe so much about Willow's "woe is me, why won't you date me" when there are so many bigger things to hate her for. Like the fact that she, y'know, quite literally mind-raped Tara. It's like arson, murder, and jaywalking.

Edited July 7, 2015 by galax-arena

[amensisterfriend]

Like the fact that she, y'know, quite literally mind-raped Tara.

 

Heh---but poor Willow was feeling insecure and she got all wide-eyed and stammery and 'adorable', so it's totally okay! ;) (In other words, yes, ITA re Willow!) 

[galax-arena]

Heh---but poor Willow was feeling insecure and she got all wide-eyed and stammery and 'adorable', so it's totally okay! ;) (In other words, yes, ITA re Willow!)

Seriously, when people ask me why Willow sucks, that's pretty much the only thing I can focus on because my rage is so huge that it eclipses almost anything else about her character.

 

I might have cheered when Tara snapped at Willow, "God, what is wrong with you?"

Edited July 7, 2015 by galax-arena

[Spartan Girl]

I would be more okay with the Xander hate if the same standard of behavior was applied as thoroughly and consistently to Willow.

You and I will probably have to agree to disagree about our differing views on Xander (and Buffy) but you do have a good point about Willow. For all the reasons listed above, I'm going to have to agree about not liking Willow. I used to like her, but not so much anymore.

[Snow Apple]

When everyone was raving about Sherlock, I eagerly watched when it finally aired on my local PBS station. I loved all forms of Sherlock in the past so this should be right up my alley, right? Well, I didn't hate it. I was too confused to hate it. I seriously thought middle-age was affecting my brain because how can I be confused about a show everybody else was raving about? It made me feel so bad that I never tried watching again.

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure if this would be considered an UO or not but I feel I need to post it: I fancied myself a writer in my youth. I actually wrote a full length mystery in highschool. Never had the guts to try and get it published or even show it to anyone... But my point I can understand a storyline that is logical for a character. Even a dark and horrible one for a previously "good" character or a redemption arc for a bad guy. I tend to find these kinds of stories the most interesting but am finding that a lot of people hate them with the power of a thousand firey suns.

Then again I always liked a good downward spiral. They are entertaining to watch at least.

<~~~edited because typos.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Gudzilla]

For me the only sin on TV that I find unforgivable is not being entertaining. It doesn't have to be in the way producers intended it just has to be entertaining.

 

This is how I can enjoy Dean Norris hiding successfully behind a tree that's about the thickness of a broom handle.

[BizBuzz]

Please remember that this thread is particular to discussion of characters that are loved that you don't like.  It is considered off topic to discuss characters you love, or to defend the same characters.  Please make sure you refer to the title of the thread to make sure you are in the correct spot for your response!

Remember that The Crazed Spruce and I are here at any point to help you find the right topic for your comment, just ask!

 

Carry on!

[amensisterfriend]

This one seems mildly blasphemous in certain circles, but I don't love Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Cordelia Chase. (Angel's Cordelia Chase was just kind of unrecognizable to me past the first season, like an entirely different character---I didn't like her much either, but for different reasons!) In fact, the older (and crankier?!) I get, the less I like Cordelia. I found some of her snark amusing and think the actress did a great job adding vulnerability and warmth when the script called for it. But I just kind of have limited patience for those Mean Girls---or guys, when the case may be---who choose to act snotty, demeaning and even outright cruel the majority of the time for little to no reason but who we're supposed to always love and forgive because they're sometimes funny and occasionally deign to act like decent human beings. And her 'opposites may attract but can't get along for more than five seconds at a time' relationship with Xander is now more exhausting than enjoyable to me, as are other very popular couples of that type, though I think I liked it more at the time. 

 

I really, really dislike Veronica Mars' Lily Kane for somewhat similar reasons, though for me Lily was even more proudly thoughtless, obnoxiously self-obsessed and lacking in that hard-to-pinpoint quality that made me at least occasionally like Cordelia. Lily may be more polarizing than widely loved, though...? 

Edited July 7, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[raven]

 

YES. I loathe Helena. I groaned when it turned out that she wasn't really dead in season 2.

Me too!  I was THRILLED when I thought Sarah killed her, should have realized it wouldn't take.  Hate the hair, hate the accent, hate the way she's supposed to be all lovable!!killer!!  HATE.

She's one of the reaons I won't be back to Orphan Black next season (though not the only one).

[Kromm]

Well we only saw Lily Kane through flashbacks and fantasy sequences, so we have to filter her a lot through (mainly) Veronica's perceptions, since memory can be pretty subjective, and the fantasy Lily totally so. I mean she slept with her boyfriend's father, that's indisputable, but the rest is up for grabs.

 

Also, who says we were really supposed to love Lily?  Veronica was. Logan and Duncan were.  But us?  I don't know if we were supposed to be that invested.  We were supposed to mourn the effect of her death on other people's lives more than the girl herself, I think.

 

Compare her to the fantasy version of Alison DiLaurentis that's all viewers had for years on Pretty Little Liars. Was any viewer really supposed to like her? I doubt it.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kromm

[ToxicUnicorn]

I haven't watched Vampire Diaries for seasons, but those characters would qualify here.  I never understood the Caroline, Bonnie, Rebecca, or Elijah love.

 

In fact, I didn't understand most of the attitudes about TVD at TWoP.  

[Princess Sparkle]

I haven't watched Vampire Diaries for seasons, but those characters would qualify here.  I never understood the Caroline, Bonnie, Rebecca, or Elijah love.

 

In fact, I didn't understand most of the attitudes about TVD at TWoP.  

The love for Elijah has always befuddled me.  I hold the UO of preferring Klaus.  But then again, I also can't STAND Damon.  At all.  Team Evil Stefan.

[DearEvette]

I haven't watched Vampire Diaries for seasons, but those characters would qualify here.  I never understood the Caroline, Bonnie, Rebecca, or Elijah love.

 

In fact, I didn't understand most of the attitudes about TVD at TWoP.  

 

I am with you 100% with these, Caroline & Rebecca especially.  I watched the shows on and off and can't fathom the character devotion. 

 

I am neutral on Elijah.

 

But was sorry for Bonnie, though.  Only because the first few seasons of TVD the utter hatred for Bonnie was so over the top that if felt almost irrational.  I started to like her out of contrariness.   She is a good case of a pendulum swinging from widespread hate to overall liking.  I kinda feel like that happened because of some off camera/on twitter shit that happened and people became pissed off at the showrunner and sympathetic toward the actress  translated to the character.

[memememe76]

TONS.

 

Dawson on Dawson's Creek. I liked him and I thought he was reasonably upset that his best friend would get it on with his soulmate, blah, blah.

 

Julie on Felicity. I think the show lost quite a bit with her absence. I thought her rape storyline was excellent. Also, again, I loved how she just HATED Felicity (who I loved, btw!) that first part of the second season. That subway episode was so much fun!

 

Vanessa on Gossip Girl. Honestly, anyone who hates all of the other characters on the show is fine with me.

 

Lucy Knight on ER. She got way too much flak. I also think she was probably the most realistic young intern on the show.

 

Laurel on Arrow. I think she's fun. I like how she's still growing as a heroine.

 

Declan on Revenge. I was never bothered by the accent.

 

I didn't realize Ross on Friends was that disliked. I don't think any one character on that show was particularly more popular or unpopular than the other. There are too many iconic Ross moments that too many people cherish (They were on a break, your/you're, the leather pants, his silent swearing).

Edited July 10, 2015 by memememe76

[millennium]

Yes, Claire's character turned me off of Degrassi, a show I watched despite my not being in the target demographics. I guess they wanted the non cheerleader type to be the "everygirl", but she just grated. A lot.

 

The only Degrassi character I ever hated was Joey Jeremiah.   Maybe it was that asshole hat.  Or that one awful song his band wrote, that they insisted on singing or humming or playing in nearly EVERY episode. 

 

ETA: Now the damn song is stuck in my head.

Edited July 10, 2015 by millennium

[amensisterfriend]

I think I am literally the only person on this site who actually likes MTV's "Scream"---and let's not even discuss the fact that I'm about 25 years north of the target demographic ;) I think all the hand wringing about the lack of characterization is a little misplaced given 1) the movies from which it's loosely derived---they weren't exactly in-depth, psychological character-centric films, you know?! and 2) the fact that we've still had only TWO episodes. Some of the best shows out there---and lord knows not even I would put Scream anywhere near that category---take several episodes to nail down their characterization. And I actually do like a few of the characters, most notably Noah and Audrey. Honestly, I find it fun and moderately engaging, and that's all I ask from my summer viewing. It's also funny to me that the movies are now being held up as more stellar than they (IMO!) actually were just to make a point about the TV shows' alleged awfulness :) 

[Sheenieb]

 

I think I am literally the only person on this site who actually likes MTV's "Scream"---and let's not even discuss the fact that I'm about 25 years north of the target demographic ;) I think all the hand wringing about the lack of characterization is a little misplaced given 1) the movies from which it's loosely derived---they weren't exactly in-depth, psychological character-centric films, you know?! and 2) the fact that we've still had only TWO episodes. Some of the best shows out there---and lord knows not even I would put Scream anywhere near that category---take several episodes to nail down their characterization. And I actually do like a few of the characters, most notably Noah and Audrey. Honestly, I find it fun and moderately engaging, and that's all I ask from my summer viewing. It's also funny to me that the movies are now being held up as more stellar than they (IMO!) actually were just to make a point about the TV shows' alleged awfulness :)

I enjoy it as well. I'm almost 30, so, I'm on my way out of the target demographic as well, but so far, it's entertaining.  It's never wise to take an MTV show too seriously.

[Snow Apple]

 

I didn't realize Ross on Friends was that disliked. I don't think any one character on that show was particularly more popular or unpopular than the other. There are too many iconic Ross moments that too many people cherish (They were on a break, your/you're, the leather pants, his silent swearing).

Ross is awesome except when his storyline has to do with Rachel. He's like a completely different character then.

[cpcathy]

Damn,  I watched that show what--30 years ago? I know EXACTLY what song you're talking about!

[Janet Snakehole]

Ross is awesome except when his storyline has to do with Rachel. He's like a completely different character then.

Agreed.

I also think Rachel gets too much hate. I really dislike her when she is paired with someone, JA's acting when Rachel has a crush or is flirty is practically painful to me. But I love her chemistry as a friend with the other friends. I love her single personality because she is laid back and also girly, which you don't see often on tv. Usually the girly girl is uptight and Rachel is pretty chill when not with a romantic interest. I especially enjoy her moments with Chandler as they are both pretty sarcastic and more realistic as characters than some of the other friends.

[millennium]

Damn,  I watched that show what--30 years ago? I know EXACTLY what song you're talking about!

 

Isn't that scary?   It's a pernicious, evil song!

[Snow Apple]

"Everybody wants something.........."

 

(runs away)

[roamyn]

I didn't realize Ross on Friends was that disliked. I don't think any one character on that show was particularly more popular or unpopular than the other. There are too many iconic Ross moments that too many people cherish (They were on a break, your/you're, the leather pants, his silent swearing).

Don't forget Marcel, and "evolution is a fact." "That's your opinion" (Phoebe).

[fromtheashes]

Neal Cassidy from OUaT is a big one for me.

 

I'll also echo Will and Finn from Glee. Xander and Dawn from Buffy. Ross from Friends.

 

Elena from TVD and Laurel from Arrow aren't in the love category but I like them well enough,

Edited July 10, 2015 by fromtheashes

[mansonlamps]

I've been watching old episodes of Modern Family on USA and suddenly I realize that Gloria annoys me about 80% of the time and almost never makes me laugh. She's by far my least favorite character. How did I never realize this all along and how is it possible that Sofia Vergara is the highest paid woman on TV?

[Rick Kitchen]

Judge Judy is the highest paid woman on TV.

[truthaboutluv]

I think I am literally the only person on this site who actually likes MTV's "Scream"---and let's not even discuss the fact that I'm about 25 years north of the target demographic ;) I think all the hand wringing about the lack of characterization is a little misplaced given 1) the movies from which it's loosely derived---they weren't exactly in-depth, psychological character-centric films, you know?! and 2) the fact that we've still had only TWO episodes. Some of the best shows out there---and lord knows not even I would put Scream anywhere near that category---take several episodes to nail down their characterization. And I actually do like a few of the characters, most notably Noah and Audrey. Honestly, I find it fun and moderately engaging, and that's all I ask from my summer viewing. It's also funny to me that the movies are now being held up as more stellar than they (IMO!) actually were just to make a point about the TV shows' alleged awfulness :) 

 

Just caught up on the first two episodes and have to agree with this whole comment. Is it groundbreaking television, of course not. But it's fun who-dun-it. YMMV but not everything has to be this perfect, amazing, complex written show. I also have to agree with this sudden notion that the Scream films were some high standard of film making and such brilliant satirical commentaries on the horror film genres. Yes I know the latter was the intent and the films were decent enough but frankly in my opinion, no other film needed to be made after the second one and I may be being generous with that. They were decent, fun films which is not that different from this show in my opinion. 

 

I also don't understand all the comments about no one from the original films wanting to be involved in the series and how the creators of the series just slapped the name on it to hook fans of the films like some bait and switch because I'm pretty positive that Wes Craven is an executive producer on the series. And as he's the one who created the whole Scream franchise, I'd say that's someone very close to the film being involved in the series. As I said, I thought it was a fun way to spend an hour - it's not high brow television but I don't need it to be. 

 

And Noah's claim that you need to care about the characters so their death will affect you is totally coming true for me because I'm not looking forward to him, Audrey or Riley dying. I really like all three - Emma, Brooke, douche-friend, douche-boyfriend can all bite it any time. I'm still undecided about new guy. 

[selkie]

BTW: I'd love to see someone intelligently defend Colin Baker. To this day I can't really watch those episodes. Peter Davidson was never really my cup of tea either, although again (like with Catherine Tate) he was also the benefit of some really good stories. LOVE LOVE LOVE Sylvester McCoy, but I doubt that position on McCoy is very different from most (although I seem to recall a lot of hate for his companion, Ace).

 

I'd tend to give Six a fair amount of slack simply because he got stuck with Peri, who is probably my least favorite companion ever, even over the black & white era screamers. Victoria was a product of her time and she did the best she could; Peri should have done far better than she did.

 

Tegan ended up being one of my favorite companions toward the end- yes she was brash, but she meant well, had a giant heart, and I think at times she tended to get loud to try to hide how scared and in over her head she really was. She kept trying until she reached a point where she knew she just couldn't get back into the blue box.

 

I don't know popular it is, but I preferred Romana 1 to Romana 2- I actually liked the tension between Romana 1 and Four, and feel like they lost something by having Romana 2 mellow out as a consequence of her regeneration.

[mansonlamps]

Judge Judy is the highest paid woman on TV.

Thank you for correcting me. I forgot to be specific, Sofia is the highest paid actress on TV.

[joelene]

How come she gets paid more than Julie Bowen? Don't they have the same status on Modern Family? Seems odd.

[galax-arena]

I think I am literally the only person on this site who actually likes MTV's "Scream"

I haven't seen the second ep yet, but I liked the pilot. I wasn't expecting it to be anything close to high art. It's just like a lot of other shitty teen slasher flicks. And shitty teen slasher flicks are a total guilty pleasure for me, so I'm in. 

 

I think one issue is that when Scream (the movie) initially came out, while it wasn't exactly high art either, it was revolutionary in completely reviving and shaking up the teen slasher flick genre, which was practically dead at that point. (And now it suffers from a case of Seinfeld is Unfunny.) So people remember that, and I guess they project those same expectations on to the show. 

[mansonlamps]

How come she gets paid more than Julie Bowen? Don't they have the same status on Modern Family? Seems odd.

Their salary on the show is the same but due to her enormous popularity Sofia makes a boat load more with all of her endorsements and licensing deals.

[joelene]

I see. Thanks for the info.

[millennium]

Now that's just mean!  :P

[UYI]

Ditto! I hate conventions in general, though. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not gonna lie--there was a Brady Bunch convention in NYC last year, and if I could have gone, I would've been there immediately.

 

Topic?

 

While I'm not going to deny that The Andy Griffith Show was never the same after Barney left (which is easy to identify because the first season without him is also the show's first season in color), I will say that there are some perfectly decent episodes during the color years that I am more than happy to watch. 

[Moose135]

Judge Judy is the highest paid woman on TV.

 

She must get paid based on how much of an annoying shrew she is.

[Julia]

Is that the woman with the best salary? Because I'm pretty sure the woman who takes the most money home is Oprah.

[ribboninthesky1]

In the same vein, I've always wondered - how exactly is it possible to determine entertainment salaries? I imagine there's a lot of creative accounting that goes on within studios, so how are such numbers public knowledge?  

[AimingforYoko]

Is that the woman with the best salary? Because I'm pretty sure the woman who takes the most money home is Oprah.

Yes, but part of that is based on owning a network, so she's part TV personality and part TV exec. It's like combining Mark Harmon and Les Moonves.

[joelene]

I don't roll my eyes over Paul's sexuality storyline on True Detective, thinking it's cliche. I kind of find the "Oh, the obligatory gay person", "Like we haven't seen this story a hundred times before", "There has got to be more to his angst and shame" and "Please, it's 2015, not 1975!" posts a bit annoying. Sure, the repressed gay guy is far from original and it's far from the first time it's been portrayed in a cop drama but that's no reason to never portray it again seeing how true to life is (yes, even in 2015!) I also think it's an important story considering how flippant the average person is about gay people's struggles nowadays. Now that marriage equality has finally happened in America (like, two weeks ago, not ten years ago!) it's not like we're suddenly valued the same by everyone. Getting emotionally and physically abused is still a very real and near threat, not to mention coming out five times a week can be exhausting (because coming it isn't something that happens just once). If Paul's repressed sexuality is "the only thing" driving his angst, that doesn't mean it's a little thing that he should just get over "in this day and age" because "no one would really care."

It's obviously also possible that there is more to his angst, (incest, rape, whatever is on HBO's checklist) but I kind of hope that there isn't more to it, just for the sake of showing that the "tired, cliche, gay macho closet cop" is still a real thing. From my experience of television watching it's also not a very common gay character these days. Most of them seem to be out nowadays (which is of course great).

However, having said that, on the other hand I get that throwing his story onto the numb storytelling garbage pile of cliches that is True Detective is an easy thing to do and that if stories about closeted gay folk just isn't something you find terribly interesting (especially in a murder mystery cop drama thriller thing) then that's obviously fine and doesn't make you an asshole.

Edited July 12, 2015 by joelene

[ChaseMCP]

I agree about Paul from True Detective. For one, I really haven't seen that storyline played out as many times as other people apparently have and for another, I find it interesting that he's not so much in the closet but that life seems to be gradually forcing him out of the closet. Then again, just because his storyline may not be new doesn't mean it can't be explored in a new way. It's too soon to tell.

 

And speaking of HBO, I don't care about the nudity. Sure, I wish that they could tone it down some, but it doesn't rile me up like it does others. There was male nudity in 7 Days of Hell and it's got people talking it should be shown on other shows too. Sure. Whatever you want. I just don't care and am tired of hearing every show being judged based on the amount of nudity. 

[ganesh]

Yes, *too soon to tell*. After 5 minutes of episode 1, everyone was declaring how awful this season was compared to last season. Watch, tomorrow, how everyone is going to be like, "that last 10 minutes of True Detective was teh best evar!"

 

Seriously, TPTBs have been clear that it's a serialized show and a different entity than S1. Let it play out. 

 

I guess my UO is that I don't have a problem with VV playing a gangster in an affable way. Isn't that a more effective way in the long run? 

[andromeda331]

This might be just me but whether its Crane on Sleepy Hollow or the fairytale characters

on Once Upon a Time or other shows I still haven't gotten tired of them attempting to

use our technology. From Hook's explanation of his cellphone, to Cora committing

on the Regina's "carriage" I still find it funny.

 

Castle and his mom are my favorite characters on Castle. They're just so fun and funny.

I never tire of Bernadette's comments about "accidents" in her lab on Big Bang Theory,

or Amy talking about her monkeys.

Edited July 13, 2015 by andromeda331

[Shannon L.]

 

This might be just me but whether its Crane on Sleepy Hollow or the fairytale characters

on Once Upon a Time or other shows I still haven't gotten tired of them attempting to

use our technology. From Hook's explanation of his cellphone, to Cora committing

on the Regina's "carriage" I still find it funny.

This can be one of my favorite things, provided it's done right.  I don't like it when they go all out in the first season, so that the second season becomes stupid.  Sleepy Hollow seems to have found a nice balance--a character who is intrigued by these new inventions and ideas and needs some help with them, but smart enough to figure some of them out on his own (or with very little assistance) so that it doesn't delve into slapstick. 

[ganesh]

This might be just me but whether its Crane on Sleepy Hollow or the fairytale characters

on Once Upon a Time or other shows I still haven't gotten tired of them attempting to

use our technology.

 

"Slide to open" was arguably the best sight gag on tv this decade.

[Linderhill]

I don't give a crap that Julianna Margolies and Archie Panjabi didn't film their last scene together.  I just don't care.  Heck, i hadn't noticed the the two characters hadn't shared a scene together in a few years until I read about it here.  Its just not that important to me.  I was more bothered by the craptastic election plot dragging on.  I don't hold it against JM that they didn't share screen time because its not that important to me to find out whatever is going on behind the scenes with her on her show.  I also really tired of posters rambling on about it like it was the most important thing on the show. 

[Neurochick]

Moved to the "Race and Ethnicity" thread.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Neurochick