S06.E06: Season 6, Episode 6

[scenicbyway]

I enjoyed the reference to Elizabeth Bennet because Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, starring Lady Rose as Elizabeth Bennet, opened to general release in the United States last Friday, two days before this episode aired in the US (I believe PPZ is scheduled to open in the UK this Friday).

 

I don't know if that's coincidence or a deliberate call out from Julian Fellowes.

 

Regardless, I suppose it is another example of the times, they are a changin'

It's a call out because the actress who plays Mrs. Crawley played Elizabeth's Aunt who takes her to Pemberley in the Kiera Knightley version of Pride and Prejudice.

[Juneau Gal]

 

Should we be taking bets on what Mrs. Hughes is going to hit her husband with?  Poker?  Frying pan?  Walking stick?

 

Mrs. Hughes in the Great Hall with the Walking Stick.

[threebluestars]

What the hell crawled up Daisy's ass and died???

 

God, she's insufferable.

[statsgirl]

It's a call out because the actress who plays Mrs. Crawley played Elizabeth's Aunt who takes her to Pemberley in the Kiera Knightley version of Pride and Prejudice.

I didn't realize that she had played Mrs. Gardiner. It's a nice in-joke for them.

 

 

Nope, not how it happened. Edith taking Marigold had nothing to do with Mrs Drewe 'showing signs of mental instability' - which, by the way, she was not. Mrs Drewe was being a protective mother to Marigold, which was only right and proper, since she had been asked to raise the child as her own. ...It was Michael's death that triggered Edith's decision to claim Marigold as her own.

IIRC, Edith was never given the chance to raise Marigold. Rosamund first encouraged her to have an abortion and when she couldn't go through with it, found a family in Switzerland to take the child. 

 

Gregson's death did enable her to take Marigold, partly because she realized that she may be the only person (i.e. husband or child) in her life ever, and partly because it gave her the funds and the independence to be able to raise Marigold on her own.

 

Mrs. Drewe's mental state is pure speculation and even JF may not care enough to have created that story.  But I think that if I were told that the woman visiting my foster child was her birth mother, I think I would have encouraged the connection in the way that open adoptions are good for both child and parent. Mrs. Drewe doubled down on keeping Edith away rom Marigold and that sends up a red flag for me.

 

I do agree that Edith should have been more aware of how Mrs. Drewe was hurt in the end.

[C76]

After approving of the Drewes raising Marigold, Edith started spending an increasing amount of time there, disrupting their family life, and eventually just plain took the child back.   The Drewes and Marigold would have been fine together before Edith started having second thoughts.

 

 

In Edith's defense,  Marigold isn't just " the child" she is her child.  She never really wanted to give her away, she was looking for a way to be part of her life.  Was it fair to Mrs. Drew?  Absolutely not.  Was it intentional that Mrs. Drew got hurt in the process? No, Edith didn't know how she was going to feel about the arrangement any more than Mr. Drew know how his wife would feel.

 

Thank you, allboys. 

 

The post I first replied to almost made me wonder if I had missed something--had Edith harassed Mrs. Drewe, etc.? Yet she didn't do any such thing. She's a woman who thought that she could do without her child, and she discovered that she was wrong. terrymct, I could support your perspective--that Edith was absolutely in the wrong--if I felt that she had malicious intent. However, I do not.

 

I really don't understand why some posters are so determined to pretend Edith never did anything wrong. It isn't a betrayal of the character to acknowledge that she isn't perfect and has handled certain situations badly. She's a human being, after all, well meaning but flawed. She had reasons for everything she did, she was motivated by overwhelming emotions and difficult circumstances, but she nonetheless handled the situation badly and other people were hurt because of it, something she has never acknowledged. I like Edith, I do. But I would respect her a whole lot more if she had the grace to admit how badly her actions have hurt others.

 

 

I don't think that Edith is perfect. Nor do I believe that if someone makes a decision, and people are hurt as a result of the impact of that decision, said person is absolutely, irrefutably horrible. (In my mind, such a judgement would depend on the circumstance, and this one does not meet that criteria.) Furthermore, just because the show hasn't spent time showing how Edith felt after her decision, that does not necessarily mean that she didn't feel some sadness about what transpired. That's something we may never know.

 

Topic?

 

I am glad that Tom and Mary are friends. Every time someone attempts to ship them, I cringe. Can't a man and woman be pals on a show without being turned into a couple?

 

arieswriting, I'm also glad I'm not the only one wondering what happened to Daisy. I hope the reason for her behaviour is revealed--preferably as soon as possible. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by C76

[scenicbyway]

The house tour was funny, as someone who's been on the house tour, I can say the guides are more informed but don't really give out that much information, and you do get to go upstairs.

 

Mary suddenly being in love with the race car driver is puzzling.  We've seen him 3 times?  Nearly all of her scenes since Tom returned have been with him and while Fellowes can throw out, brother/sister lines, they aren't brother and sister.  They run the estate together, and I can't figure out why Tom is pushing her to get with this guy either?  Why is Tom going on their dates even, it's ridiculous.  Tom and Mary have more chemistry than any of her other supposed suitors since Matthew died.  If they want them to just be friends Tom should've returned with a wife from America.  It's hard to believe that 7 years on he hasn't really dated anyone.

 

I hope Edith will end up happy, Bertie seems like a good match.

 

I thought it was very out of character for Violet to cause a scene with the villagers, but atleast she had more than one liners this episode.

 

Merton's soon to be daughter in law is creepy.  I can't figure out why she is trying to get Merton and Mrs. Crawley together so badly when her fiancée basically forbid it.

Mrs. Carson needs to say something to Mr. Carson, who would want to live like that?  And please don't let it be Mrs. Patmore that does the talking.

 

I'm tired of the Anna pregnancy drama, can't they be happy for an entire episode?  Instead they have a constant worry with the pregnancy.

[izabella]

I honestly don't care either way who Mary ends up with, Tom, Henry or no one.  I am annoyed, however, that Tom's purpose in coming back is to be her wingman.  He hasn't even mentioned anything he and Sybbie did in America, no stores to tell of anything bad or good, or even the first time Sybbie ate a hot dog... meaning, he isn't getting any lines or story lines that aren't related to being Mary's BFF.

[fishcakes]

It made me laugh when the staff was setting up the velvet ropes to block off the staircase from the visitors. Why on earth do the Crawleys have velvet ropes on hand?

[dargosmydaddy]

I know it's unlikely to happen, nor does Thomas even necessarily deserve it*, but I would love to see Spratt get sacked and Thomas be Violet's butler.

 

*(They're both done bad things that should have gotten them fired already... does Thomas have seniority over Spratt, or was Spratt with Violet all these years and we just never saw him until a few seasons ago?)

[RedHawk]

Should we be taking bets on what Mrs. Hughes is going to hit her husband with?  Poker?  Frying pan?  Walking stick?

 

Mrs. Hughes in the Great Hall with the Walking Stick.

 

 

Mrs. Hughes in the Carson Cottage with a Frying Pan.

[s-k-s]

I'm trying to say nice things ... so I think one of the things JF has really handled well, actually, is the relationship between Anna and Mary.  It is a genuine friendship of people that are inherently inequal, and he shows both its strengths, its depths and its limits.   I also thought the scene with the tourists in the Abbey was well-done, and gently mocking of the snobbery and ignorance of the Granthams, something that JF really doesn't do enough.

 

As for the rest ... it's all been said before by many others much better than me.  What a mess.  

 

I'm hoping Mrs. Carson kills Mr. Carson with her fying pan (or strangles him with a tightler cornered bedsheet).  Deadbeat constable has to show up to investigate, but he's an idiot, so he ends up arresting Daisy because she's just really annoying, while Thomas gets hired to be the butler to Bertie Pelham's cousin, who is dashing and kind and wants to live in Tahiti all the time and Tom gets an actual plotline and his personality back, while the Dowager and Isobel sit around drinking tea and making delightfully snarky commentary for the rest of their lives...  I really don't care what happens to the rest ... 

[RedHawk]

I'm trying to say nice things ... so I think one of the things JF has really handled well, actually, is the relationship between Anna and Mary.  It is a genuine friendship of people that are inherently inequal, and he shows both its strengths, its depths and its limits.   I also thought the scene with the tourists in the Abbey was well-done, and gently mocking of the snobbery and ignorance of the Granthams, something that JF really doesn't do enough.

 

As for the rest ... it's all been said before by many others much better than me.  What a mess.  

 

I'm hoping Mrs. Carson kills Mr. Carson with her fying pan (or strangles him with a tightler cornered bedsheet).  Deadbeat constable has to show up to investigate, but he's an idiot, so he ends up arresting Daisy because she's just really annoying, while Thomas gets hired to be the butler to Bertie Pelham's cousin, who is dashing and kind and wants to live in Tahiti all the time and Tom gets an actual plotline and his personality back, while the Dowager and Isobel sit around drinking tea and making delightfully snarky commentary for the rest of their lives...  I really don't care what happens to the rest ... 

Wouldn't be the first time Fellowes wrote about a bumbling detective letting the real killer get away.

 

I like the idea of Thomas finding love with a man of the upper class and going abroad, although I don't think his skin could handle Tangiers or Tahiti. 

I thought it was very out of character for Violet to cause a scene with the villagers, but atleast she had more than one liners this episode.

 

 

It was out of character, but then some older folks do start to act irrational as they age. I enjoyed it because I enjoy anything Maggie Smith does or says and at least Fellowes gave her something to do. "Horses and women!" was a treat!

[Popples]

Non-spoilery speculation: Mrs. Hughes leaves Carson and sets up shop with Mrs. Patmore and her B&B, and they solve crimes together part time. Carson is just such an insufferable ass, and WETA UK just showed the Christmas special of Rose's coming out ball and at the end Carson and Mrs. Hughes held hands walking out into the sea together. I originally thought it was so sweet, now I wish she had let him fall in the water.

 

Oh my god, Daisy stop being such an outrageous bitch. Part of me sort of understands that she likes having Mr. Mason to herself and be a daddy's little girl to him, but Mrs. Patmore took you under her wing. You'd still be scrubbing floors and lighting the fires if it weren't for her. A rational person would most likely be thrilled that the two people who always looked out for their well being got together.

 

The house tour was hilarious, I'm hoping there was a bit of adlibbing going on. I wish Molesley had been able to inject some of his wisdom.

 

Bertie and Edith are really sweet together, I think he'd be really understanding about Marigold's true parentage.

 

That dress Mary wore to dinner was unbelievably stunning. It's probably better than most of what you'll see on the red carpet.

 

One thing that slightly amused me about Violet's tantrum is that she took time to still be all about Isobel's love life when Lord Merton introduced his daughter-in-law to be to her. And what's up with Miss Cruikshank? I feel it's really late in the game for her sudden appearance. It's nice Larry loves her, but she should have witnessed the appalling awfulness her intended inflicted on Isobel and Tom.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Popples

[AllisonH]

Daisy's immature attitude towards Ms. Patmore is no surprise, but the duration of the feud is not consistent with what we know of the characters.  Let's face it, the servants of Downtown Abbey are nosy.  Every episode there's at least half a dozen scenes of characters happening on one another and pointedly asking "what have you got there," "what are you reading," "what are you doing here," etc.  That's the normalcy we're used to downstairs.  From that perspective, Daisy's passive-aggressive sniping should have been resolved a long time ago.  Ms. Hughes knows exactly what Daisy's problem is (as does everyone else, most likely), and under normal circumstances, Daisy absolutely would have been called out by now.  I really hope they're not going to keep this going until the Christmas episode, because that would be ridiculous.

[Blackie]

Bertie looks like he could be Marigold\s real father so they could marry and go to London or America and no one would even question.

 

.​

eta:  I usually prefer Edith's dresses to Mary's, but Mary's dinner dress was spectacular.  I would die to Edith's wardrobe.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Blackie

[politichick]

arieswriting, I'm also glad I'm not the only one wondering what happened to Daisy. I hope the reason for her behaviour is revealed--preferably as soon as possible. 

Daisy has always been a bit of a pain in the ass but she is a thousand times worse now. I cannot understand why she would not want her father in law to have some happiness. What a nightmare she's become! I think they're giving her a break until she sits for her exams, but hope they put her in her place afterward.

[ShadowFacts]

It made me laugh when the staff was setting up the velvet ropes to block off the staircase from the visitors. Why on earth do the Crawleys have velvet ropes on hand?

 

They must have sent Molesley out to the Downton Equipment Rental.  Too bad they didn't figure out that you have to set them up a little more taut than almost touching the ground.

[aliya]

Somehow I've missed what Daisy is studying for - what does she want to do?  Personally, she could take her books and jump off of London Bridge at this point; she's become a terrible person.

 

Mary remains a cold, mean person. I'm sure she was meant to be something else at the beginning of the series, but boy, what a disappointment she has turned out to be. I'd much rather be Edith's friend than Mary's.

 

I'm going to go over to Team Thomas. When the show first came out, I took one of those online quizzes - which character are you most like, and I was Thomas, so maybe I see something others don't. Yeah, he's been bad. Yeah, he shot himself to get out of the war. Yeah, he's played one staffer against the other, but there is something about his struggles. I was unemployed for a few months, unsure if I would have to move in order to get a new job in my field, I can imagine how difficult it is for him 1) just to find another place, 2) to find a place as a butler when that job may be going the way of the buggy whip, and 3) to have no one with whom to share his concerns and fears.  I felt awful seeing him cry.   So, perhaps as terrible as Thomas has been, I have something Mary does not - a little compassion for my fellow human, who is not perfect, but neither am I.

[izabella]

One thing that slightly amused me about Violet's tantrum is that she took time to still be all about Isobel's love life when Lord Merton introduced his daughter-in-law to be to her. And what's up with Miss Cruikshank? I feel it's really late in the game for her sudden appearance. It's nice Larry loves her, but she should have witnessed the appalling awfulness her intended inflicted on Isobel and Tom.

 

That was a funny moment, and I liked that they included it.  I really like how Violet and Isobel have grown into a genuine friendship, prickly though it might be. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I loved this episode. The tour was absolutely hilarious - loved that none of the residents knew a sniff (for the most part) about their own history. Also that Bertie had to direct the family in how to carry out a tour. And that they took his advice. He will make a wonderful partner for Edith both personally and at her magazine.

 

My favourite line of the whole episode was when Mrs Patmore told Mrs Hughes that she should have known that Mr Carson was a too old to be trained as a husband. Priceless!  Poor Mrs Hughes - in addition to her duties as a paid servant at Downton she now is an unpaid servant to her husband. She did seem wistful listening to Mrs Patmore's stories about the house she has bought and is renting out, including outfitting it with a telephone! Seems like Mrs Patmore is moving ahead with her life while Mrs Hughes is going backwards!

 

I wonder if Mosley will leave to assist the school teacher leaving an opening at Downton for Thomas? I really hope they don't stretch it out for too long before it is known that Thomas was actually helping the younger fellow (whose name escapes me at the moment)  learn how to read.

Edited February 9, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[meep.meep]

 

I'm hoping Mrs. Carson kills Mr. Carson with her fying pan (or strangles him with a tightler cornered bedsheet).  Deadbeat constable has to show up to investigate, but he's an idiot, so he ends up arresting Daisy because she's just really annoying, while Thomas gets hired to be the butler to Bertie Pelham's cousin, who is dashing and kind and wants to live in Tahiti all the time and Tom gets an actual plotline and his personality back, while the Dowager and Isobel sit around drinking tea and making delightfully snarky commentary for the rest of their lives...  I really don't care what happens to the rest ... 

 

Whatever Mrs. Carson does to Mr. Carson, she needs to smite him.  Because if there ever was someone who needed some serious smiting, for his own good, it's Mr. Carson.  Although the tightly cornered bedsheets do have their appeal!  Who made his damn bed when they were sleeping at the Abbey?

 

I've been hoping that Thomas goes with Edith and Marigold (who I always want to call Buttercup) and lives the fabulous life in London, with or without Bertie. 

[Constantinople]

Lady Mary isn't so scintillating that Evelyn Napier should still be pining after her a dozen years later.

 

When Edith and Bertie were looking at the children in the nursery, George looked normal, Sybbie looked normal, Marigold looked dead.  I think Marigold is too old to die from SIDS, but when I saw her on her stomach, that's the first thing I thought.  I'm certain that's not what they were trying to convey, but it was just damned odd looking.

[QQQQ]

This is also used in the opening credits for a film with Cary Grant called The Grass is Greener which deals with an earl and countess who have to open up their estate to the public because of financial issues they're dealing with.

This is also used in the opening credits for a film with Cary Grant called The Grass is Greener which deals with an earl and countess who have to open up their estate to the public because of financial issues they're dealing with.

[Macbeth]

It sounds like Mr.Carson may have a couple of openings at his house for those who lose their jobs at the big house - Thomas is not on that list of course.  

 

That was quite a house Mr. Carson has (from the outside it looked impressive).  I am not including Mrs Hughes in the ownership as she apparently is the help.  Mr. Carson is finally lord of his own manor.  He better be careful- as Gosford Park showed - there are many poisons hanging about a regular mansion.   

 

I did notice that his house has electricity, while the Bates still had gas lamps.  Nice touch DA.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Macbeth

[QQQQ]

This is also used in the opening credits for a film with Cary Grant called The Grass is Greener which deals with an earl and countess who have to open up their estate to the public because of financial issues they're dealing with.

Sorry, meant to add that The Grass Is Greener is where I first heard the song. One of my top 10 movies. Last night I half expected to see Robert Mitchum stray from the house tour and sweep Cora off her feet.

[aliya]

I can accept Andy not being able to read and no one knowing about it.  Even today there are people who can't read and go to huge lengths to successfully keep it from others.  I doubt that Carson would have given Andy a written list, more likely to just pontificate, but even if he were given a grocery list, he could hand it over to the shopkeeper and have him/her gather the things together.

Back in the early '70's, I had a summer job working in the credit department of our local Lane Bryant store. I'd get these older black people who would ask me to help them with the application as they had 'forgotten their glasses.'  I never thought anything of it and just helped them out. At some point, one of my co-workers told me that these people couldn't read - they just used this excuse to get help. It would never have occurred to me that someone couldn't read a credit application (as in 'tell us your address and how much money you make').

[SoSueMe]

I'm trying to say nice things ... so I think one of the things JF has really handled well, actually, is the relationship between Anna and Mary.  It is a genuine friendship of people that are inherently inequal, and he shows both its strengths, its depths and its limits.   I also thought the scene with the tourists in the Abbey was well-done, and gently mocking of the snobbery and ignorance of the Granthams, something that JF really doesn't do enough.

 

As for the rest ... it's all been said before by many others much better than me.  What a mess.  

 

I'm hoping Mrs. Carson kills Mr. Carson with her fying pan (or strangles him with a tightler cornered bedsheet).  Deadbeat constable has to show up to investigate, but he's an idiot, so he ends up arresting Daisy because she's just really annoying, while Thomas gets hired to be the butler to Bertie Pelham's cousin, who is dashing and kind and wants to live in Tahiti all the time and Tom gets an actual plotline and his personality back, while the Dowager and Isobel sit around drinking tea and making delightfully snarky commentary for the rest of their lives...  I really don't care what happens to the rest ... 

As far as Anna's and Mary's friendship goes, I was glad to see that in spite of the "friendship", Anna has Mary's number. Remember her conversation with her husband on their walk.

 

Daisy is obnoxious for no reason I can see unless it can all be laid at Miss Bunting's influence. Carson is obnoxious and unlike Anna he doesn't seem to want to recognize the fact that the toffs are not gods.

 

Violet and Isobel are my favorite set of frenemies ever. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by SoSueMe

[WatchrTina]

 

Mary was unnecessarily bitchy about Edith "casting a damper" on every London restaurant -- and she had that epic eye roll -- but Edith didn't seem too bothered by it.

I agree that Mary's bitchiness to Edith is getting REALLY old but I do think that she is feeling extra annoyed with Edith right now because she's caught on that the entire family has been conspiring to keep her in the dark about Marigold.  I assumed that that is where the extra level of snark was coming from.   Meanwhile, Edith is feeling much happier than usual because, for the first time in a very long while, someone seems to want her  -- hence her not being bothered by Mary or thinking a mention of Michael Grayson was the "downer" that Mary took it to be.

Edited February 9, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Kira53]

Again, I think we are supposed to see clearly that (inexplicably) Mary is utterly smitten with Henry (he gets her engine purring). She quite publicly, for all to see, is dangling herself in front of him, and using Tom this time as her "gay best friend." Ugh. Why Henry has developed an overwhelming desire to marry her is utterly unexplained as is his positive reaction to her "seduction" -- except in a "men like women who play hard to get, but not too hard to get." There's not enough time left for Mary to nearly lose Henry or (having lost Henry) brazenly resolutely determine to "think about that tomorrow." Tom will handsomely replace Carson (slavish lacky) when he retires and likely become hated as a class-traitor by (loyally) siding with Mary against the tenants. Mary will ensure that Tom making decisions independent of her approval, like that of Mr. Mason's farm, will never happen again.

I don't think that Mary is smitten with Henry at all. She is just back to getting her ego fed by an admirer. Henry's motivation is Mary is a prize. She has a rep of being hard to get - his friend Evenly has been trying 10 years to get any traction with her. Perhaps even more, title, she will be regent for her son, and security to race cars without having a profession. She is pretty and wears clothes like a dream. Why wouldn't a man chase her. Usually being a bitch is a bonus. Read the book, "Why do the Bitches get all the men?". Nice girls often finish last. Men pursue difficult women trying to get them to be nice. The reverse is often true as well. Nice guys finish last. Bad boys do well.

I feel more and more certain that Mary and Tom should be end game. The only problem is that there are so few episodes left. The crumbs seem to lead there.She actually like to spend time with him , they work well together to preserve Downton and he told her to let Anna's husband have his dignity and pay for the doctor. Mary didn't even argue with him. Tom likes to hang out with Mary and they wrote each other. They may not have passion but joint goals and balance ( she doesn't mow him down). Some times mature relationships are based on companionship. They are both attractive. Tom is ambitious - he might start a car dealership. She could choose him to further the Abby's future. They are in harmony with future plans. BTW, the "brother" "sister" talk to to push away the growing attraction. Mary would be sniping on any sibling. Anyway I thought they would go there since last year and that it was necessary for Tom to go away from Downton to prepare the way for a change in narrative.

And bringing Tom on dates is a great way to stir up any attraction he may have for her. She did that before with the two guy that could not be told apart. The pig guy and the other one.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Kira53

[kassa]

Elsie, crack open the bottle and tell your tool of a husband that Her Ladyship is still drinking, so it's only right that you follow her example.

[txhorns79]

That was quite a house Mr. Carson has (from the outside it looked impressive).  I am not including Mrs Hughes in the ownership as she apparently is the help.  Mr. Carson is finally lord of his own manor.  He better be careful- as Gosford Park showed - there are many poisons hanging about a regular mansion.

 

At this point, I'd like her to trap him under the sheets of an exquisitely made bed, so she can properly torture him.  I totally get that he isn't used to Mrs. Hughes solely in the role of wife versus her taking direction from him as butler, but jeez.  I'm half surprised he hasn't suggested Mrs. Hughes move back into the main house so she can undergo some kind of cooking and cleaning internship with Mrs. Patmore and the housemaids in order to learn to properly serve him.

 

I'm mixed on Thomas.  I feel like Carson is being particularly hostile with him to an unfair degree, but I also understand that Thomas has been entirely nasty and untrustworthy during his time on the show, so it's not like Carson's attitude is completely undeserved. 

 

Also, shut up Daisy.  How Mrs. Patmore hasn't just slapped her across the face for being such a spoiled brat, I'll never know. 

[jschoolgirl]

I don't think that Mary is smitten with Henry at all.  She is just back to getting her ego fed by an admirer.  Henry's motivation is Mary is a prize.  She has a rep of being hard to get - his friend Evenly has been trying 10 years to get any traction with her.  Perhaps even more, title, she will be regent for her son, and security to race cars without having a profession.  She is pretty and wears clothes like a dream.  Why wouldn't a man chase her.  Usually being a bitch is a bonus.  Read the book, "Why do the Bitches get all the men?". Nice girls often finish last.  Men pursue difficult women trying to get them to be nice. The reverse is often true as well.  Nice guys finish last.  Bad boys do well.

 

I feel more and more certain that Mary and Tom should be end game.  The only problem is that there are so few episodes left.  The crumbs seem to lead there.She actually like to spend time with him , they work well together to preserve Downton and he told her to let Anna's husband have his dignity and pay for the doctor.  Mary didn't even argue with him.  Tom likes to hang out with Mary and they wrote each other.  They may not have passion but joint goals and balance ( she doesn't mow him down).  Some times mature relationships are based on companionship.  They are both attractive.  Tom is ambitious - he might start a car dealership.  She could choose him to further the Abby's future.  They are in harmony with future plans.  BTW, the "brother" "sister" talk to to push away the growing attraction.  Mary would be sniping on any sibling.  Anyway I thought they would go there since last year and that it was necessary for Tom to go away from Downton to prepare the way for a change in narrative.  

 

And bringing Tom on dates is a great way to stir up any attraction he may have for her.  She did that before with the two guy that could be told apart.  The pig guy and the other one.

Mary said she didn't "want to be grander than my husband," and she said it to Tom. Not directing it at him, of course. JF and AL have both said Brary is a non-starter, although they could be misdirecting. Unfortunately, I think they are right.

[lulee]

Having just gotten through S4's Christmas Special on my long rewatch, I'm not feeling very charitable toward Barrrow after he was so ghastly toward Baxter and jealous, conniving and meddlesome toward Tom.

 

Also from late Season 4, I wish Daisy had kept her attitude of, "I never get excited." It would be far preferable to her current shrill spazzy harpy act.

Edited February 9, 2016 by lulee

[Quilt Fairy]

I thought that Bertie Pelham, besides being his gay cousin's agent, was a likely heir to said cousin's title, as cousin will maybe never marry and most likely not come up with the heir and spare? I think there was a marriage of convenience suggested, but it didn't seem likely to happen. So if Bertie marries Edith, it's possible she could end up as the Marchioness of Brancaster?

That seems unlikely given Robert and Cora's conversation after dinner. Robert implied that Bertie had no expectations beyond being agent for his cousin's house. Cora's only response was that at least Bertie is a gentleman, which I assume is code for "one of us", something Michael Gregson couldn't claim.

 

That dress Mary wore to dinner was unbelievably stunning. It's probably better than most of what you'll see on the red carpet.

And she considers that "medium smart". 

 

I don't understand why people are calling Tom the matchmaker when he offered to take a cab by himself, leaving Henry to walk Mary home. Mary set that surprise meeting up all on her own with the express purpose of seeing Henry. Tom knew he was going to be a 5th wheel from the outset.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[sandyskyblue]

Mrs. Hughes in the Carson Cottage with a Frying Pan.

Mrs. Hughes in the kitchen with all of her patty pans!

[Mrsjumbo]

Lady Mary isn't so scintillating that Evelyn Napier should still be pining after her a dozen years later.

When Edith and Bertie were looking at the children in the nursery, George looked normal, Sybbie looked normal, Marigold looked dead. I think Marigold is too old to die from SIDS, but when I saw her on her stomach, that's the first thing I thought. I'm certain that's not what they were trying to convey, but it was just damned odd looking.

Thank you for the belly laugh!

[Mrsjumbo]

I thought it was stupid of them to schedule the tour while the librarian was gone, but they seemed stunned that anyone was asking any questions at all about the history of Downton. And it made for some funny scenes.

I was surprised that Bertie seemed so "take charge" at lunch with the family. This was his first time at their house & I thought his personality was supposed to be shy & introverted. I like him though.

I was disappointed in Mary's outing. I was really hoping for some spark with Evelyn since there really is no chemistry with Henry. Even that kiss-he kissed her but she seemed to want to get the hell out of there. I don't know how they are going to make a romance blossom with only a few episodes left.

I hate the idea of a Tom/Mary romance so I won't even go there.

Love Thomas, they better give him a happy ending.

Poor Maggie Smith got some crappy storyline this year. She's doing what she can with it.

I thought Mosely again was pushy, telling Baxter to get rid of the letter. It's her damn decision. Just like when he tattled to Cora about the situation. Poor Baxter isn't even allowed to tell him off when she is angry.

Someone asked why Andy didn't just ask Mosely for help when he could t read- he can't keep his trap shut! Ex. -See Baxter & Cora, or Daisy & mr Mason getting the farm.

[WatchrTina]

I've just started my re-watch of Season 3 and in the very first episode Mary and Matthew quarrel on the eve of their wedding and it's Tom -- newly appointed best man -- who walks down to Matthew's house and reminds him that he (Matthew) "will never be happy with any other woman so long as Mary walks the earth."

 

Tom Branson -- Mary's wing-man since 1920.

Edited February 10, 2016 by WatchrTina

[dangwoodchucks]

Carson is a dick and so is Daisy.

 

Why does Tom always seem so damned happy to see Henry?

[whatsatool]

It's not that new - in Pride and Prejudice Elizabeth and her aunt and uncle tip the housekeeper to show them around Pemberley while the family are away, and that was written in the 1890s. Gentlefolk would take tours around stately homes going way back - but always when the family were away, and always gentlefolk. What was new was opening a house to the general public for cash, allowing common folk in. Downton's first true step into the modern era!

And where did that get her? Lol Elizabeth Bennet.

I thought it was stupid of them to schedule the tour while the librarian was gone, but they seemed stunned that anyone was asking any questions at all about the history of Downton. And it made for some funny scenes.

It's so funny that they have a librarian.

And she considers that "medium smart."

Mary is so trusting in Anna to pick her frocks.

[whatsatool]

I'm in such a weird place when it comes to all this Mary/Tom/Matthew Goode stuff. I mean, I'm happy to go along with Mary/Matthew Goode as endgame, as I do find it reasonably charming (though mostly because of Matthew Goode - heck, I don't even know what the character is called, he's just Matthew Goode to me) and I DON'T ship Mary/Tom at all, especially as someone who appreciates platonic male/female friendships...

And yet Mary/Tom are just the perfect fit for each other at this stage. They tease each other, they communicate without speaking, they make each other laugh - my God, they act more married than either of them did with Sybil or Matthew. What is happening here??

TV Tropes would call this a Relationship Writing Fumble, and it's hilarious to behold.

Yes Tom and Mary should be together.

[dangwoodchucks]

And where did that get her? Lol Elizabeth Bennet.

It's so funny that they have a librarian.

Mary is so trusting in Anna to pick her frocks.

They have a librarian and yet Lord Grantham thinks it's preposterous to have an underbutler.

[whatsatool]

June Forsyte - Ack!

It's not so much that I loved June, but how I hated Irene. It's some consolation that Galsworthy had to go on endless pages when Forsyte saga was republished, trying to temper the readers' sympathy for Soames and detestation of Irene. Irene can go jump off a bridge.

I do think Fellowes has saved Edith from a June Forsyte fate - fingers crossed, anyway.

Oh no I love Mary and could barely stand Irene. They have nothing in common. Mary is snarky. Irene was passive aggressive. Edited February 9, 2016 by whatsatool

[kat165]

I think Tom is happy to see Henry because he's one of the few men he comes in contact with

who shares his interests. Aside from Mary, Tom really doesn't have any friends. I do feel sorry

for the actor who plays Tom, a thankless role, but he seems to take it in his stride. Maybe he's

just happy to have the work. Or have had the work.

 

The actress who plays Daisy probably doesn't like what Daisy's turned into either. But at least

she's getting a storyline as much as it sucks. It's still screentime for her.

[lulee]

They have a librarian and yet Lord Grantham thinks it's preposterous to have an underbutler.

But are we sure that the librarian would have been employed full time by Downton? It would seem astounding if someone is a type of house staff and he'd never been mentioned previously in all these years. Could an estate librarian also have been a local historian for the county or at a college?

[Black Knight]

I was puzzled by Mary running around trying to get Tom and Anna to tell her about Marigold. When she said in this episode that she would be staying at Rosamunde's house in London, I assumed she'd be targeting the person who more than anyone else (excepting Edith herself) is clearly in it up to her eyeballs, Rosamunde. I feel like they're dumbing Mary down. Edith was away for a year with Rosamunde. That's the only time Edith could have been pregnant and given birth, and of course if Mary does the math with Marigold's age that would confirm that she was born when Edith was out of the country. With Rosamunde. Why is she not bugging Rosamunde with pointed "innocent" questions about what she and Edith did on their year-long trip? Maybe I'm just grumpy because I love the actress playing Rosamunde and I was expecting to see her appear in this episode and was looking forward to her conversation with Mary.

 

I also wish we'd seen how she brought the subject up with Tom, what exactly it is she said to him. We only came in at the point where she was telling him that she doesn't think Anna knows anything. It's not even clear whether Tom knows that Mary's sniffing around the Marigold secret specifically or if she just knows there is a secret but has no idea what. I think the scene between them tilted in the latter direction (he would've been more concerned about Mary asking around if he knew it was re: Marigold), but what we saw was inconclusive enough that it could well be the other.

[blackwing]

Is it horrible to say that a small small part of me is glad this is the last season so I won't ever have to see that Despicable Daisy ever again? She is working my last nerve. "Why shouldn't they open the house and let anyone through, people have a right." Because it's not socialism! She has the nerve to be jealous of Mrs Patmore, who had treated her like the daughter she never had? She is awful.

It's the final season, so Fellowes should give most viewers what they want and kill her off. Have Mrs. Patmore hit her with a rolling pin and feed her to the pigs, like they did Kristen Bell in "Deadwood". But noooooo, final season etc so of course the little shrew will get her happy ending. She's going to pass her exams and marry Andy and leave the kitchen and live on the farm that she bullied her way to get for Mr Mason.

I so truly don't care what happens to Thomas. His "good with the children" is just an act. And why does he have time to play with the children anyways? Doesn't he have underbutling to do? The children have a nanny to play with them.

[whatsatool]

Daisy the happy socialist.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

[The three Sisters at DA]  I didn't judge, I just analyzed their personalities. No matter how it got formed, it is as it is. The reason is not important. The result is different personalities.

 

I think BIRTH ORDER has a very strong influence on their personalities and Tom's relationship to all of them too. Mary is the eldest and the heir's mother. She's the oldest sister, and will be bossy, protective, daring, confident, and jealous of her edge of power as first-born with her parents and her siblings. Tempted to rebel against her parents (as all first borns are), Mary is also naturally closer to them and has a stake in supporting precedence and tradition, which runs in her favor. So while both Mary and Sybil are alike in rebelling noticeably against societal norms and the status quo, Mary still supports tradition because she has a stake in it. As the youngest, Sybil can rebel and experiment far afield from tradition and the status quo, which she does. Sybil can be a free spirit, remaining innocent without guile or sibling rivalry, because she's babied, easily forgiven, and overlooked until she really shocks, marrying a Catholic chauffeur and flirting heavily with Socialism. Even with these insults to the Downton lifestyle and expectations, Sybil is forgiven and cherished. Her early death leaves her reputation in a safe state, but what further shocks was she capable of pulling off?

 

Edith is the middle child with all of the associated assumptions. Taunted by Mary, who sees the second-born as her rival for parental affections, Edith's self-confidence cannot bud and grow so easily. Powerless and overshadowed by Mary, and coddled "baby" Sybil, Edith is a lonely child who is not so noticed or supported when she makes mistakes while growing up. But once she finds her feet with a successful romance, an unexpected career, and healthy child, Edith's experience in making her own painful decisions rapidly matures her into a delightful woman with excellent coping skills and a tender heart. She is not the pampered queen, like Mary, nor the petted and indulged baby of the family, like Sybil. Edith successfully experiments with the freedom of the age, rather than rebelling against it. Her unconventional romance and leadership role in the workforce are her own choices, born of self-made self-confidence.

 

Tom is attracted to and marries vulnerable carefree Sybil, who seems to share his values, but he is mentally and emotionally drawn to Mary, who prides herself on attracting and controlling any man in the vicinity. He likes to match wits with her, and as they share responsibilities for DA together, his values change and model on hers. But he recognizes her pride and selfishness too, and will never replace Sybil with Mary.

[Llywela]

They have a librarian and yet Lord Grantham thinks it's preposterous to have an underbutler.

In a house like Downton, stuffed to the gills with antiques and fine art and rare books, a librarian serves a hell of a lot more purpose than an under-butler. (Sorry, Thomas). I mean, heck, someone has to know what's in the collection and what it's all worth - and that someone certainly isn't a family member!