S03.E13: Trust No Bitch

[Primetimer]

Let's talk about where we're leaving Piper, and everyone else at Litchfield, until next year.

Read the story

[DianeDobbler]

Yeah, I think this is a really good point. Morello used to be my favorite, but this was the last straw for me.

 

I really think this was a misfire by the writers. According to Yael Stone, she was shocked when twitter was so supportive after Morello broke into Christopher's home. "I'll marry you Lorna!" and stuff like "My husband is named Christopher - you can have him!" Stone said after a point she was thinking, come on, she stalked him! Sometimes a story point has a visceral impact and people overlook the logic of the given circumstances. Lorna's actions were of the aggressor, but the emotional weight was all on her side. Sure, the audience doesn't know Christopher, and Lorna's backstory was initially heartbreaking, but if the writing then tries to pay back Christopher for rejecting Lorna, that becomes cult of personality writing, where a character wins even when it's unjust, simply because they're popular or a star of the show. That never ever works, but I suspect this is what happened here. Christopher FELT like a villain because Lorna was humiliated in the visiting room, but the writing should never treat him as the villain just because he's not a star of OITNB. Anyhow, don't think this was a character point, but a writing misstep. Lorna brought his reaction to her on herself, and then some.

 

I think having her beat him down and the quasi-comic way it was played was fan service, but it doesn't work. It doesn't matter if he's mean or not nice about how she stalked him. HE doesn't have "Almost Paradise" playing on a track every time she shows up. Also didn't like her story with Vince - too try-hard adorable. What was heartbreaking about her backstory was the vulnerability and level of delusion in someone we cared about. Not getting rejected by Christopher.

 

ThatsDarling the Tiger Mom - me too! Hell, even the setting ripped off the original photo of the original Tiger Mom article. Lazy is right. I thought - are you serious? You're just cutting and pasting from a years-old NYT article?

Edited June 25, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[DianeDobbler]

I think cutting away from that scene - and withholding his condition after the fact - is another point of fan service for Morello and why her wedding seemed to charm some viewers. If the show wanted us to focus on the ugliness of what she did - since it all started with her deliberately presenting to Vince that Christopher was a horrible person who had wronged her - it wouldn't have skimped on those details, certainly not in favor of a fairytale-esque conclusion for the season.

 

 

Yeah, the show played all the wrong beats in (presumed) reaction to the audience reaction to Morello's backstory. Morello's backstory isn't heartbreaking rejection from the man she loved, so here, at the end of Season 3, have a cute guy declare his genuine feelings for her and marry her! I do think it was supposed to be a feel good thing - Christopher "pays" for shaming her in the visiting room, and Morello gets love and marriage from a cute guy.

 

That had nothing to do with why the audience responded to her backstory, and even the twitter supporters were, at heart, expressing incredible empathy for a very vulnerable fictitious character. They weren't buying into Lorna's delusions. The whole heartbreak of it was Lorna thought she was heartbroken over a guy, but the reality was "there's something really wrong with me. I'm a crazy person." THAT's what broke people's hearts. She was experiencing her problem as romantic rejection and heartbreak but the audience saw what it really was, and wanted to reach out to her and show her that, and support her. Of course you're loveable! Your problem isn't not being loved! Let's talk about it!

 

In her final scene with Nicky, LORNA began to see what her problem really was (or so I hoped, despite her saying Christopher was mean). The fact that she began to see it was a sign of hope in her storyline.  Then the show took the cheap route and I don't really get it.

[Thog]

Wow, people were touched by that wedding? I didn't see it as a fairy tale ending, but rather another manifestation of Lorna's delusions. Marrying someone you barely know, and met only because he's into incarcerated women, doesn't seem like something that will end well. I was a bit shocked that Red and the guards were in tears, given what they must know about Morello, but then I realized they're seeing it through their own lenses and not really thinking about the bride and groom in front of them.

 

I also wanted some assurance that Christopher ended up okay. They did have Vince mention having "beaten up" some guy for her, not "killed," but I wish we knew the extent of the damage. Yet another reason I hardly think this marriage is going to work out. I'd like to think it will open up new storylines for Morello that don't involve bad 80s ballads, but rather an exploration of how dangerous her delusions really are (and not just for poor Christopher).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My favorite thing about the wedding was how seriously O'Neill took his role as photographer (even with his crappy disposable camera).

[DianeDobbler]

I don't think the marriage is meant to last. BUT, I think it was meant as a sort of pay-off for poor Morello, so sadly rejected by Christopher after deluding herself he cared, so humiliated by him in the visiting room.

 

That's so WRONG. I don't care about the character of Christopher at all, but I do care about Morello, and I hate the misplaying of where the audience sympathy came from. The sympathy came from people recognizing this was a girl fueled by pathological romantic delusions, completely oblivious to the underlying crazy or neediness. For me, when "Almost Paradise" played at the conclusion of Morello's backstory episode, I was never thinking "If only Christopher had loved her!" Christopher was not the problem. He was the victim - collateral damage. The heartrending part was Morello BELIEVING the situation was about rejection, her complete blindness to how far gone she really was. The fact that the poor thing was experiencing terrible pain and heartbreak without understanding its real cause. There was no "if only - his love could have saved her!" about it. The great thing about the scene with Nicky was Nicky really loves her. Sees her for what she is. If you're a shipper, than you can wank that behind Morello's delusions and pathology, none of these obsessions are about sexual attraction, and her real self might actually be gay. If that doesn't matter, then it's still - Nicky is a great first step, a truly disinterested friend (I believe Nicky cares about Morello whether or not Lorna reciprocates romantically - and vice versa) who appreciates who you are and sees your dysfunction might be a first step to achieving a more reality-based life.

Edited June 26, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[EuropeanGirl]

Piper is really on a power trip right now.

[halleygee]

Did anyone else think that the raid on Cesar was not random? That Bennett ratted on him so that his baby would be taken somewhere safe? I think he has not disappeared at all...

[TV Diva Queen]

Random thoughts:  

When did Lolly (I think that's her name, girl from A League of Their Own) become crazy?  

Does anyone other than "corporate", know about the new inmates arriving today?

Why was it being referred to as a  "big day".  New inmates or NotMarthaStewart?

 

If this was episode 12, I would rate it 5 stars...but as epi 13, it was WEAK at best.  Too many lose ends, and then another year to wait.  I'd like each season to be self contained.  Alex, I hope is dead and I want Sophia to get justice.   

[ganesh]

I liked Caputo's plot. Take the raise. He kept the prison running and got the guards to keep their jobs. I think they have the right to a union, but I don't think he owes them anything else. 

 

I like Piper being a big gangster now. I assume it's going to blow up in her face, but her takedown of the gf was *cold*. 

[citychic]

My son just pointed out some foreshadowing I hadn't caught. When Lolly and Vause are standing in line for commissary Lolly starts talking about all the new guards. She describes the donut guard and the baby face guard and then she says "and the toothpick guard, he started today!" Vause turned around to look at her and Lolly said "Don't look back, they're always watching." Then Vause kind of laughed and Lolly said "You're going to die." 

The guy who was with Vause all the time when she was dealing always had a toothpick in his mouth. Vause was always watching over her back and time will tell if she's dead.

[schmickschmack]

I don't love everything Game of Thrones does but I think one thing the OITNB writers/producers could learn from them is to subvert expectations.  Kill Alex off. Have the cops find out that those guys beat Christopher up at Lorna's behest and get her thrown in Max.  GoT pisses me off at every turn but that's why I tune in.  As you guys have said, there's too much pandering to the fans here.

[DrivingSideways]

This season was entertaining but the show feels really sanitized to me.  The backstories all paint the women as victims of the machine, not active criminals.  In the past there were some that got wrapped up in crime, usually for their man, but others that had really nasty backgrounds.  Now every main character has to be lovable and fun.  This season felt really sitcommy.

 

Black Cindy is one I hated from her backstory.  The conversion storyline should have been stupid.  Yet the actress really killed it and gave what should have been a stupid B-plot emotional heft. 

 

I just can't get behind Boosatucky.  Pennsatucky was an evil crazed hick who tried to murder someone.  And she's in jail for murder.  My first memories of Boo are of her forcing a dog to perform cunnilingus on her.  Once the show puts these characters in this light, I just can't get on board with the rah rah sisterhood tales.

 

I can't believe Red's storyline this season was to fall for Healey, something previous season Red would never do, and to wave her hands angrily about bagged foods.  A real step back for what was once a complex and interesting character.

 

Kill off Alex, and Piper please.

 

And you guys... am I the only one who thinks Laverne Cox is not a very good actress.  She is so overrated.  And her character was a real bitch this season.  I wasn't too disappointed she was hauled off to SHU.  Shitty things happen in prison.  Her beat down was one of the realer aspects in a season that felt kind of corny and Gilmore Girls-esque to me.

[yourstruly]

 

And I'm ready for Sophia and Gloria to feud like hell next season. Literally, that's the major story right there. Two bad ass women, mothers going at it. That look they exchanged when Sophia went to seg. Oh hell no.

Is Laverne Cox even coming back? I thought she got a role on a CBS show. I thought that most of the actors are on year to year contracts so the writers have to work with the possibility that they will be dealing with new prisoners next year or that they can't have an actor for the entire season. So it makes (sad) sense that she is in SHU indefinitely-they don't know if or when she will be available. And there have been instances of trans prisoners put in solitary indefinitely "for their own protection".

 

I also don't know about Aleida. Elizabeth Rodriguez is on the Walking Dead spinoff, so she might not be as available.

[CleoCaesar]

That had nothing to do with why the audience responded to her backstory, and even the twitter supporters were, at heart, expressing incredible empathy for a very vulnerable fictitious character.

Shouldn't these incredibly empathetic fans be expressing just as much, if not tons more, of empathy for Christopher, a man who literally did nothing wrong and had his life ruined (and possibly ended) by a psychotically delusional girl? This is one of those times where I think OITNB goes a little too far in sympathizing with these characters (which fans understandably pick up on). Yes, a lot of the inmates are relatively harmless and in jail for BS reasons. But a lot of them are truly dangers to society and innocent people. Morello isn't cute or sweet or deserving of anything resembling sympathy from my POV. It's a little unsettling to see fan reaction sympathize so much with a dangerous criminal and so little with the innocent victim of her crimes.

[Guest]

I just hope more tv is written in a mini-series format.  Virtually all the good shows follow this path... great first season, then it's all downhill and usually quick.  This show should've been a mini-series.  It's like the writing community is too strapped for ideas that when they find one (usually cribbed from a good book), they run it into the ground by telling the good story and then making up crap for 3-6 successive seasons.   I think Breaking Bad gets so many writing accolades because the series spanned a cohesive story, it didn't outlive it five times over. 

[DianeDobbler]

 

Shouldn't these incredibly empathetic fans be expressing just as much, if not tons more, of empathy for Christopher, a man who literally did nothing wrong and had his life ruined (and possibly ended) by a psychotically delusional girl?

No. We don't know him, he's not a leading character. What the show needs to do is treat him responsibly. If we're meant to sympathize with Morello, and I believe we are, then they can't give Christopher a beat down because of how he responded to being stalked, and play it as girl power or something. They COULD play it as something Morello did that later made her realize how far gone she was, the way, for example, they handled Suzanne beating the shit out of Poussey, although I think they kind of skated by on that one as well. Both women are a bit unhinged, although they're much more inconsistent about showing that when it comes to Morello.

 

I'm just looking at the narrative effectiveness of this story, and I believe if we're meant to ache for Morello, they can't play her having Christopher beaten up as some sort of "You go girl" beat. They can still beat him up, and we don't necessarily have to care about the character, but for the story to work the beat down has to be played responsibly, with the component effect on Morello, and acknowledge to the audience what it is. The Morello story is obviously one of a girl who is truly delusional, who on some level knows it and is terrified by it but doesn't know what to do about it.  I was reading about the five types of stalkers, which I think has already been talked about in this forum, and Morello is an intimacy-seeking stalker. She's a troubled woman. Yes, she has an adorable side, but they can't play her beat down of Christopher as an extension of her adorable side, or his rejection as Christopher kicking poor little puppy Morello. We can be heartbroken for her as she sees the wedding veil in Christopher's home, the wedding plans, etc., but the heartbreak shouldn't be because she's not the bride!!

 

ETA, I'm curious if an intimacy-seeking stalker, who, according to what I've read, is assuredly suffering from mental illness/delusions, can be as compartmentalized as Morello seems to be. She was functional outside her delusions about Christopher. She maintained relationships in Litchfield, her relationship with Nicky was as reasonably healthy as any other relationship in Litchfield, she had responsibilities such as driving the van, and the astute Red picked her to run for WAC. 

 

With both of these characters, Suzanne and Morello, OITNB has played around with their ability to really physically hurt innocent people, while encouraging us to find them endearing. I just think it's a mistake. Suzanne's beat down of Poussey keeps sticking in my mind even though they reconciled. I think Morello's violent side should be handled better too.

 

 

I just hope more tv is written in a mini-series format.  Virtually all the good shows follow this path... great first season, then it's all downhill and usually quick.  This show should've been a mini-series.

Ugly Betty, Mad Men, Dexter, The Sopranos....

 

I've learned to just hitch a ride for a great first two seasons and then get off. I still believe the first season of The Sopranos was one of the greatest mini-series ever. Once it lost the structure of Tony vis a vis Livia, playing off the mother/son relationship with the mobster versus mobster relationship, it became unmoored, although it still had good short arcs and good stand alone episodes. Like a lot of these shows, it gets held up by production values and good acting. What would some of these show runners do without an extensive and effective playlist in their head. Cue up the right song for the closing credits seems to buy a lot of good will.

Edited June 27, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Thog]

I sort of assumed they wrote in the Christopher beat-down because Morello was becoming too sympathetic, and they had to remind us of who she is and what she is capable of. For the rest of the season all her scenes had a sort of menacing undertone for me because of that. But if that is what they meant to do, perhaps they were too subtle about it.

[Helena Dax]

I think the conversation about Morello and Chris is just another version of "how can you like *insert character*?". This isn't RL. In fiction, not everything is about morality. Some of my favourite characters are gray/black: Eric Northman,  Tony Soprano,  Don Draper, Lucius Malfoy, Ben Linus, Dexter, Scarlett O'Hara... Does it mean I'd like them in RL? Not a chance. But they make fun television. Or they hot, in Eric and Lucius's case. 

 

I like Morello because she's fun and I don't really care about Christopher because I don't know him. I know she's wrong and he's innocent, but that doesn't change my feelings. However, if she hurt one of my favourite characters, I'd be angry at her. I love to be partial with fictional characters.

[Nanrad]

I don't it's about whether or not you can like vile characters, but rather, the lack of sympathy for her victim. 

 

Morello is in prison for a reason just like the rest of those ladies. Does this mean that they are all bad, irredeemable people who shouldn't be liked? No. But, Morello is in jail, I believe, for stalking Christopher, and then she broke into his house when she had van duty. Now, she has sent her now husband to beat the shit out of him out of vengefulness. There are times I like Morello, BUT, I do that was a reminder to show why she's in prison and I do feel for Christopher because he did nothing to deserve that. He's trying to move on from the ordeal and have a normal life. 

 

Even though we don't follow certain characters, it shouldn't be hard to sympathize with them. I agree with the other person who said, the reaction would've been different if a man had sent a woman to beat her victim's ass. 

[DianeDobbler]

 

 

I don't have a problem liking not necessarily likable characters - but the fact is, the writing has to sell you on overcoming the rational inclination to dislike those figures. The writing on Orange Is The New Black - witty dialogue aside - is entirely too schizophrenic and inconsistent to achieve that goal. I put Jenji Kohan in the same league as Ryan Murphy, Julian Fellowes and Veena Sud, showrunners who come up with great concepts that they can neither creatively manage nor execute beyond a handful of episodes - after which, viewers are left with a mess of plots that tread water, go nowhere, make little sense, or repeat incessantly.

 

I have a rational inclination to LIKE these characters, and I don't usually feel that way when I start watching a show.  The casting here is so good and the dialogue is great, so I start trusting the writing. THEN what happened is what we've been talking about, the show runner or writers lose sight of the big picture and start messing up. The writing I hate the most is "This behavior is okay because it's somebody we like." I am perfectly comfortable loving Morello despite knowing she's delusional and really scared the hell out of Christopher when she stalked him, particularly since the show is quasi-comedy. I get that it's bad for Christopher, I don't need the focus there. BUT when the writing takes this turn of personalizing Morello's issues as being about this particular guy, Christopher, making her feel bad, it's an incredible blunder. I hate when show runners turn schoolyard. This is the goat, these are the popular kids, and our value system is based on who we like and who we don't. Ugh.

 

For example, I don't particularly blame Christopher for going to see Morello and ripping into her. He had every right. This didn't stop me from feeling her humiliation. BUT, my pain for her was rooted in seeing that she was gripped by delusions she didn't recognize or understand, and these would continue to cause her pain. That's why I was so relieved when she went to Nicky and said "I'm a crazy person. There's something really wrong with me." I didn't see that as a depressing moment for Morello, but a HOPEFUL moment. You know what they say, the first step is to recognize you have a problem. I sort of hand-waved her saying "He's not the man I thought he was - he's really mean." because I figured that's what she needed to say to let go of him.

 

Come to find out, the show was sort of encouraging us to see him as mean. Which makes no sense whatsoever. His personality is irrelevant, and I also don't see what his reaction to his stalker has to do with being mean or what type of man he is.

 

 It's the part where the narrative perspective makes no sense that usually starts to alienate me from a series. OITB could have told the story of Morello sending her new bf to beat up Christopher, but it should have been played as the same sort of dangerous turn Suzanne took when she beat up Poussey. It could even have played as, damn  - if Nicky were here, this wouldn't have happened, because Nicky can tap into the sane part of Morello. Come back, Nicky! It should never be, yay, she got back at that mean Christopher and has a guy who loves her in a way she's always dreamed. That makes zero sense. It doesn't impact how I "like" Morello, it impacts how much I like the show.

Edited June 29, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Sesquipedalia]

I never saw Morello as anything but delusional from her very first scene, so watching her wedding the first time, I viewed it as just another symptom of her pathetic delusions and assumed that her new husband will eventually find out what she's in prison for and that he beat up her victim, and the whole thing will end in disaster for her. But now that I've read this thread, I believe it was played a little too much for laughs/sentimentality. Were we supposed to view the wedding through the guards' and Red's eyes and find it moving? At the time I saw it as absurd, dark comedy, not sweet or happy at all. But perhaps the tone was too light. They probably should have shown Christopher actually getting beaten up to make the darkness of the humor come across more clearly. 

 

So Red and Healy are definitely not happening, right? I interpreted their final dialogue as Red reaffirming that she likes him but it's definitely not going any further than that. Is this wishful thinking on my part, or did others interpret it that way as well?

 

I never understood how frozen kosher meals were supposed to be better than Gloria's freshly cooked meals. I know Gloria was cooking in bulk with poor ingredients, but still, we're talking about frozen airplane meals here. It would have made more sense if that story line had been introduced after the corporates came in with their prefab food. But the way it played out was hilarious, and surprisingly moving in the end with Black Cindy's conversion scene. I am not a religious person myself, but I appreciated the story for its uniqueness. I don't think I've ever seen a similar plot before, and I hope it's not dropped in the next season.

[Sapphire]

Morello makes me think of a great French Film called He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not - it's worth a watch if you don't mind subtitles.

 

The lake scene was a way too long.  The Martha Stewart/Paula Deen character next year is meh...I'm guessing she will be in competition with Red.  But she already has a following of girls in prison so she should do fine.

 

I like Poussey and Soso getting together - and it looks like Soso is accepted...but can Poussey really put up with all of that talking...ugh

 

If Alex doesn't come back I'd be happy - didn't miss her in season 2.

 

Added drama of 4 people sharing a space for 2...eh we'll see.

 

Fig turns up preggers?

 

Ahh, Morello is so the main character in that French film! So glad I'm not the only one who sees it :)

[millennium]

This season was entertaining but the show feels really sanitized to me.  The backstories all paint the women as victims of the machine, not active criminals.  In the past there were some that got wrapped up in crime, usually for their man, but others that had really nasty backgrounds.  Now every main character has to be lovable and fun.  This season felt really sitcommy.

 

 

All the characters have become too precious.   I have never watched an episode of Glee, yet this season made me think of that series for some reason.   Maybe Orange will become a musical next season.  It seems headed in that direction.

[gunderda]

Is Laverne Cox even coming back? I thought she got a role on a CBS show. I thought that most of the actors are on year to year contracts so the writers have to work with the possibility that they will be dealing with new prisoners next year or that they can't have an actor for the entire season. So it makes (sad) sense that she is in SHU indefinitely-they don't know if or when she will be available. And there have been instances of trans prisoners put in solitary indefinitely "for their own protection".

 

I also don't know about Aleida. Elizabeth Rodriguez is on the Walking Dead spinoff, so she might not be as available.

Bennett is in "How to Get Away with Murder" so I'm assuming that's why he vanished mid-season.

[possibilities]

It never even occurred to me that we were supposed to cheer when Christopher got the beat down. I was horrified and upset by it and thought it was the show's way of reminding us that Morello is a dangerous person, despite her other qualities. I think it's on us as viewers how we react, and I like that the show challenges us to keep the complexity of each character in mind-- they can have endearing qualities as well as horrible qualities, and I think that's actually more credible than the black and white all good/all evil portrayals we are often given in the media.

 

Lots of people who do terrible things are not regarded as monsters by their families, or in the community, until after they get caught. How many people say they were shocked to discover this or that person was a rapist, child molester, battered their spouse, etc? It fits the whole "banality of evil" paradigm, too. If criminals all had fangs, green skin, and horns, we wouldn't need detectives, we'd just spot them all a mile away and know exactly how to prevent them from victimizing anyone-- just stay away, lock them up, etc. But the reality is that not all criminals are terrible in all ways, every way, all day, and in the open.

 

I have heard several people who do work inside prisons say that many of the people they meet there are exactly this kind of mix of endearing and horrifying qualities, and that even the ones who've committed the worst crimes can be quite likable until you find out what they did.

[DianeDobbler]

Of all the crimes, I find Alex's the hardest to process. Everybody else you can sort of track. Her, what was it? At what point did she decide to work for an international drug cartel? Disclosure: I believe most drugs, even hard drugs, should be decriminalized, if not legal (don't want to be reckless without knowing exactly what's out there), but obviously since heroin is illegal, we end up in a massive criminal enterprise that's like an international mafia and run by psychopaths. She was right in the thick of it, she wasn't some tangential piece of the puzzle, doing something locally.

[Chaos Theory]

It never even occurred to me that we were supposed to cheer when Christopher got the beat down. I was horrified and upset by it and thought it was the show's way of reminding us that Morello is a dangerous person, despite her other qualities. I think it's on us as viewers how we react, and I like that the show challenges us to keep the complexity of each character in mind-- they can have endearing qualities as well as horrible qualities, and I think that's actually more credible than the black and white all good/all evil portrayals we are often given in the media.

Lots of people who do terrible things are not regarded as monsters by their families, or in the community, until after they get caught. How many people say they were shocked to discover this or that person was a rapist, child molester, battered their spouse, etc? It fits the whole "banality of evil" paradigm, too. If criminals all had fangs, green skin, and horns, we wouldn't need detectives, we'd just spot them all a mile away and know exactly how to prevent them from victimizing anyone-- just stay away, lock them up, etc. But the reality is that not all criminals are terrible in all ways, every way, all day, and in the open.

I have heard several people who do work inside prisons say that many of the people they meet there are exactly this kind of mix of endearing and horrifying qualities, and that even the ones who've committed the worst crimes can be quite likable until you find out what they did.

Morello is a perfect example of someone I love on TV that would scare the shit out of me in real life. Some of my favorite characters are characters like Morello who are both sweet and scary. It's television and I like entertaing characters and Morello has always been one of the more entertaing characters on the show. Edited June 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Calamity Jane]

I don't have a problem liking not necessarily likable characters - but the fact is, the writing has to sell you on overcoming the rational inclination to dislike those figures. The writing on Orange Is The New Black - witty dialogue aside - is entirely too schizophrenic and inconsistent to achieve that goal. I put Jenji Kohan in the same league as Ryan Murphy, Julian Fellowes and Veena Sud, showrunners who come up with great concepts that they can neither creatively manage nor execute beyond a handful of episodes - after which, viewers are left with a mess of plots that tread water, go nowhere, make little sense, or repeat incessantly.

 

 

Spot on!

[JBC344]

I'm still processing how I feel about this season compared to season 2.  I will say the thing I loved was that the show became a true ensemble and I think it was "earned" after the last two seasons.  Some of my favorite scenes are those of characters who routinely don't interact being in full storylines with one another.  I really hope that continues next season.

 

Loved Boo and Pensatucky all season, but was incredibly confused why they didn't exact some other revenge on the guard.  I understand their decision to not rape him, but I didn't understand not doing something to get him at least fired.  Why not strip him naked and handcuff him to the table, or leave him passed out and handcuff Tucky to the table to make it look like he was trying to rape her at that point.  I would rather he disappear for next season, I really don't want to see a repeat of this storyline with Maritsa.

 

 

 

The scene at the lake was so whimsical, it was nice to see the inmates experience joy. 

 

I thought for sure the last scene was going to be Alex standing over the dead guard's body showing us that she killed him.  But I agree I think the season will start with Lori Petty coming back into the shed and killing the guard with her piece of glass.

[DianeDobbler]

Speaking of the characters becoming "precious" I just saw the episode showing Morello as a child receiving First Communion. Ridiculous. 

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

I'm a bit torn on Healy and Healy.Red. I liked Healy in the beginning, but the more it goes on the more it feels like he's a really dangerous misogynist. Arthur Chu wrote a great op-ed that everyone should read Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds. Healy totally comes off as this kind of guy. The guy who thinks because he's a "nice" guy, he deserves all the pussy he wants. The guy who gets angry that he won the game but didn't get the prize. The problem is, I don't know if he's supposed to come off like that, or if we're supposed to think he is a nice guy with some fucked up ideas, but not necessarily a dangerous guy or an actual misogynist or racist.

 

Healy reminds me sooo much of a guy I worked with once. About the same age too. He was in a band for years but never settled down, then became a web developer at middle age and worked an office job (and had a mullet. yeah.) Anyway, he was a nice enough dude, but he had some really odd ideas about women. Complained American women were too independent minded--whatever that meant--and wound up (surprise!) marrying a Russian bride. I was skeptical of that whole situation - thought the wife was probably using him to get a ticket to America etc. But I caught up with him on Facebook years later and he actually wound up moving TO RUSSIA himself because his wife was homesick, learned Russian and works as an English translator. I believe they are still married 7-8 years later??

[Squirrely]

Going back to the screwdriver, didn't Piper find it when she was searching for a phone? I can't remember if they showed it specifically, but my assumption is that another inmate scooped it up after the infamous fight and stashed it somewhere, where Piper found it and stashed somewhere else, along with the other contraband.

And supposedly the panty business was bringing in approx $3600 a week. So Bieber chick could have potentially lifted thousands of dollars, if she found access to Piper's share. Piper asked Red to teach her to be a mob boss, and teach her she did. I felt more sympathy for Flaca when Piper fired her than I did over tattoo girl getting sent up to max.

Of all the crimes, I find Alex's the hardest to process. Everybody else you can sort of track. Her, what was it? At what point did she decide to work for an international drug cartel? Disclosure: I believe most drugs, even hard drugs, should be decriminalized, if not legal (don't want to be reckless without knowing exactly what's out there), but obviously since heroin is illegal, we end up in a massive criminal enterprise that's like an international mafia and run by psychopaths. She was right in the thick of it, she wasn't some tangential piece of the puzzle, doing something locally.

When Alex searched out her father (some has been rocker) in a back story and realized what a tool he was and was totally crushed, one of the roadies or other band members approached her and lightened the mood. Then he said he worked for an international drug cartel (which is exactly how Alex introduced herself to Piper). I assume it steamrolled from there. Alex grew up really insecure and poor, with her mom constantly talking up her father as some giant super star, so her background has always made sense to me. Edited July 12, 2015 by Squirrely

[Misstify]

After Piper got Alex sent back to jail, and got Stella sent to Max right before she was to be released, I hope no one else is dumb enough to become Piper's girlfriend!

 

One thing that was interesting about the private corporation was their lack of interest in long-term consequences.  It was stated a few times that the CEO and other bigwigs only planned to make some big bucks in the short term, then job-hop to some other corporation.  This made it impossible for anyone to have any leverage against them.  Risk of possible lawsuits?  Who cares--the bigwigs will be gone.

[lovemytvshows]

I thought for sure the last scene was going to be Alex standing over the dead guard's body showing us that she killed him.  But I agree I think the season will start with Lori Petty coming back into the shed and killing the guard with her piece of glass.

 

But that won't bode well for Lori Petty's longevity on the show though and I do like the Alex/Lolly interactions. Wouldn't Lolly be thrown into max if they found out she killed a guard? And the character effectively be written off?

[Dobian]

They went with more of a cliffhanger finish this season than last year's exclamation point with Rosa running over Vee.  Will have to wait to find out what happens to Alex and Sophia.  And that prison is going to be awfully crowded next season.  The cafeteria scenes are going to be like a crowd at a concert.  Caputo's going to be regretting that promotion.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Rosa running over Vee was one of the best scenes in TV history, bar none. Thank you for reminding me about it!

This season was so sentimental it might have been shot in soft focus. The prisoners are in prison FGS because they are smart dangerous, stupid dangerous, or crazy dangerous. We pretty much didn't see the dangerous this season. Tell me Boo would have any trouble shoving that broomstick up rapist's ass (at least Tucky thought it would be gross to touch his sticky smelly cheeks). Come on, writers.

Would you jump into the lake just because everyone else did? Apparently yes.

The panty line (see what I did there?) is unbelievable. Whispers would already be cutting the patterns to minimize waste fabric (okay, ick) but there could not be surplus lace trim lying around anyway--how do they account for the overage. If Piper was squeezing out seven panties from a six panty piece of fabric, the stitchers are now speeding up production to sew seven instead of six in the same amount of time? And finally, why even bother? Her brother's wife's system of fake excretions (on store-bought panties?) will sell just fine without all the work--and their customers are not going to contact the press to complain they were sold fake dirty used prison underwear even if they figure it out. Fail.

I did like Alex so much more when she was not joined to Piper's hip (but puhleeze just kill Alex, Show). I do not know Lori Petty other than this show and holy shit she was amazing. Good to know a perfectly logical reason for Norma not talking.

There must be a lot more prisoners than we see for someone as striking as Stella not to be seen before, so the new capacity with bunkbeds won't necessarily bring in new characters.

Could we please have some of these people actually finish their sentences and get sent home? And not come back?

Edited July 18, 2015 by MakeMeLaugh

[hatchetgirl]

I have always hated Piper for being an entitled whiny bitch! She didn't take any responsibility at all. Alex is the same. The real life Piper writes the same way.

I really enjoy all the other character arcs.

Norma - no way is she in prison for pushing that guy of the cliff.I need more.

Amish girl gots to go!

Morello - her new hubby is just as messed up as she is. Who just beats someone up because their prison girlfriend days so. Weird.

Data - meh.

Red and Healy -totally fine with them together.

All in all, Entertaining enough but I won't be crying while waiting for the new season.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Morello - her new hubby is just as messed up as she is. Who just beats someone up because their prison girlfriend days so. Weird.

Someone who thinks prison is an awesome place to kickstart their love life, that's who.

[guilfoyleatpp]

When I was watching this episode I thought that Caputo was setting his overarching plan in motion. Remember when he told the guards that he wanted the corporation to see how badly things would go with untrained personnel before he went in to ask for benefits back?

 

He laid out for the guards what would happen if there was a union, including the role of the the management, and then executed it in a convincing way so that his guards walked off on a crucial day to ensure maximum chaos. And this happened AFTER the "not the warden" quit and Fig lit a fire under his ass about taking the reins of the operation.

 

If he did plan it (and I'm still not 100% convinced myself), it was a pretty brilliant risk. 

[archer1267]

I like Caputo and think the scenes and dialogue with Fig are a hoot!

 

 

I can't wrap my head around the idea of hate-fucking someone so it was hard for me to get this standing "date" the two of them had. All I could think of was, two lonely people needed to have their needs met, and with someone they knew would be discreet…even if they hated that person. (Hey, maybe this scenario happens more than I think it does!)

 

Fig doesn't seem like she'd have a problem getting it elsewhere, but I guess her husband's stature and public persona would make it hard for her her to be out there looking for a more well-suited lover.

 

I understand their decision to not rape him, but I didn't understand not doing something to get him at least fired.

 

I thought Boo laid it out pretty well when she explained that no one would believe Tucky if she went to his superiors. But yeah, that particular ending was very dark, and quite "real" to me….the rapist was put right back into a situation to do the same thing to another woman.

[EC Amber]

So clearly I'm coming in late... SO MUCH WIN! I really, really enjoyed this season and with very few spoilers and a few naysayers I was worried I wouldn't enjoy it. 

In no order - I LOVED Cindy's conversion conversation with the Rabbi. Had to go to youtube to watch it through a few times. Up until that point I really thought she was just bullshitting for the food. I wish they had given us a tiny, tiny glimpse of her actually studying or talking or reading - if only to make it seem more realistic. It felt like it came out of nowhere. 

Fig and Caputo? That was gross. And seemingly unnecessary except to see where he is getting his shitty advice from. The woman is unethical and robbed the place blind, and *that* is who he is going to listen to for career advice? 

Healy and Red? Oddly charming. I don't like him except when she is around. She seems to humanize him. Otherwise, Counselor Rogers has his number - he is a misogynist and racist. And a bigot. He means well, but he is operating from a place of insecurity and ignorance and that is a nasty combination. 

I seriously thought something bad (physically) was going to happen to Daya's baby during the drug bust. This is almost worse - she's going to get lost in the system... at this point I'm hoping Pornstache's mom comes in, swoops her away and that is the end of that story. I kinda hated it when it started, I hated it when she got pregnant, the whole framing Pornstache, and I hate it now. This story can end. 

I want to see more Chang. I want a spinoff prequel of her life. 

Oh Crazy Eyes - I have always had a soft spot for you. I want you to finally be with that Amber Benson look-a-like, turtle throwing cutie who loves your writing. 

I almost cried for So-so. Of all the characters I feel like I relate to her the most - the awkwardness, the desperately wanting to connect and have a group and a niche, the suicidal behavior. I did NOT want her to end up like the girl from season one who died. So for Poussey to step up for her, try to protect her and help her and finally find a spot for her... that might have been one of my favorite arcs just because the end had such a satisfying pay off. 

Fuck Piper. Don't care and her character is developing but in no way I find interesting or entertaining to watch. That monologue on top of a table - the writers were reaching way too hard and at that point I stopped taking her seriously. 

But then there was Boo and Penn. So much wonderfulness. I have to admit, I secretly wished they'd gone through with raping Coates. Enormous burden and not really anything you can come back from. But the reality is that the predator just got handed a new victim. And that bothers me deeply. For a place where it is clear there is no justice to be found... I have no idea how these women can protect themselves from rapists fucks like that without being vulnerable to solitary or being sent "down the hill." 

Speaking of - think Nicky and Stella will find each other? Because I kinda like that idea... I'd like to see either or both back next season. 

Lorna - you fucking lunatic. Well, you got married... not in Bora Bora Bora, but you finally hitched yourself to a man - AND GOT LAID. Good for you. I hope that having your fantasy fulfilled keeps you from being a dangerous, reckless fuck... but I suspect somehow not. It was amusing how the guy considerate to wipe his feet before beating the shit out of someone was his best man. No idea why that is amusing... but there you go. 

I have no idea how to feel about Norma and her cult. All kinds of weird shit going on there. 

I LOVED how young Boo almost died, realized there is no god and then smiled. I love how that gave her happiness and peace. 

Sophia - I hope you are out of solitary soon. That is some serious bullshit and has me still feeling a little pissed off. 

Looking forward to next season. Looks like they will get double the population - lots more story lines, let's just hope it doesn't get so dense with people that it becomes impossible to keep up with everyone. The Game of Thrones problem. 

Oh and Alex? Don't care if she lives or dies. Her character ran its course around the fourth episode of this season. 



 

[jsm1125]

Where was Morello during the lake scene?

[MamaMax]

Having sex against the vending machine? 

[MamaMax]

So, as an adopted child myself, I watched the storyline regarding Daya's baby with interest.  

 

I thought that the ending with the bust was pretty-- I dont know -- ironic in a tragic way?  Aleida pisses me off so completely. She is the so spectacularly selfish, I can't even wrap my brain around it.  She interferes in Daya's life, and EVERY time in order to make herself feel better about her choices as a person and a mother. And in the end, she messes with the best decison Daya has made, to place her baby for adoption -- by convincing Daya that it was selfish of her? OMG.

 

And doesn't consult with Daya before sending the baby to that dirtbag who is already raising too many kids?  UG.  I wonder if the fact that her baby ends up in foster care will FINALLY convince Daya that her mother's advice isn't worth shit?

[Mattipoo]

This was a boring finale for me as nothing much happened. The only things I enjoyed were: Piper sending Stella to max, Poussey and Soso getting together, and Morello getting married. I thought Vee was going to be in the line with the new prisoners but am glad she wasn't. The Paula Deen story might be interesting for next season. The lake scene at the end was pretty unrealistic IMHO.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Mattipoo

[Blue Plastic]

I agree with others who said the lake scene was too long.  It might have been easier to suspend disbelief about the hole in the fence if the prisoners weren't left to frolic at the lake for what seemed like at least 20 minutes.

 

The turtle throwing was obnoxious and I didn't get the point.  I'm tired of them being so ambiguous about what Suzanne's mental issues are supposed to be.  Since they've never really said, they can just dumb her up or down to whatever level the scene requires and she has no consistency.  Sometimes she's well read and slightly eccentric, other times she's batshit crazy and functioning "at the level of a 6-year-old," as per Birdie.

 

I didn't get why Boo and Pennsatucky didn't just leave Rapist Donut Guard on one floor and his pants on another floor.  Surely someone would notice his drugged and pantsless state and he would get fired.

 

I can't take hardcore Piper seriously because the actress is delivering her lines the same way she did when she played bewildered and/or scared and/or joking Piper previously.  Also because her the change in the character's outlook was sudden, IMO, not something the audience was allowed to see gradually develop.  Maybe they did try to show that and I just missed it, but I don't think the actress is showing it well.

 

I didn't really want to see any more of the Daya/Bennett baby drama, really, but it's too bad they spent so many episodes on it and then Bennett left, never to be seen again (I guess because of HTGAWM).

 

I hate Norma so much at this point I wish she would get shanked.  Seriously, I am so sick of this extremely annoying character also being mute so all she can do is make asinine faces while her idiotic followers worship her toasted effigy.  I don't find her sympathetic or cute or interesting at all.

 

Why wouldn't Christopher have made a police report about Vince?  Surely he would have suspected that Vince was sent by Lorna?

[jsm1125]

I agree with others who said the lake scene was too long.  It might have been easier to suspend disbelief about the hole in the fence if the prisoners weren't left to frolic at the lake for what seemed like at least 20 minutes.

 

The turtle throwing was obnoxious and I didn't get the point.  I'm tired of them being so ambiguous about what Suzanne's mental issues are supposed to be.  Since they've never really said, they can just dumb her up or down to whatever level the scene requires and she has no consistency.  Sometimes she's well read and slightly eccentric, other times she's batshit crazy and functioning "at the level of a 6-year-old," as per Birdie.

 

I didn't get why Boo and Pennsatucky didn't just leave Rapist Donut Guard on one floor and his pants on another floor.  Surely someone would notice his drugged and pantsless state and he would get fired.

 

I can't take hardcore Piper seriously because the actress is delivering her lines the same way she did when she played bewildered and/or scared and/or joking Piper previously.  Also because her the change in the character's outlook was sudden, IMO, not something the audience was allowed to see gradually develop.  Maybe they did try to show that and I just missed it, but I don't think the actress is showing it well.

 

I didn't really want to see any more of the Daya/Bennett baby drama, really, but it's too bad they spent so many episodes on it and then Bennett left, never to be seen again (I guess because of HTGAWM).

 

I hate Norma so much at this point I wish she would get shanked.  Seriously, I am so sick of this extremely annoying character also being mute so all she can do is make asinine faces while her idiotic followers worship her toasted effigy.  I don't find her sympathetic or cute or interesting at all.

 

Why wouldn't Christopher have made a police report about Vince?  Surely he would have suspected that Vince was sent by Lorna?

I'm not convinced that Christopher survived the beating from Vince and his buddies.

[Blue Plastic]

Christopher not surviving was a possibility I hadn't thought of.  Still, it seems like there might be some evidence to lead the police to Vince and Lorna.

[jhlipton]

The problem is, I don't know if he's supposed to come off like that, or if we're supposed to think he is a nice guy with some fucked up ideas, but not necessarily a dangerous guy or an actual misogynist or racist.

I think he's an opportunistic misogynist and racist. He doesn't go looking for trouble, but if something falls in his lap (like Suzanne's erotica), he'll make the most of it.  On the other hand, he's more than patient with his wife and mother-in-law.

 

 

Healy is the worst. He is trying to stir up an investigation on Bertie for inappropriate boundaries while making eyes at Red and using everyone to stroke his frail ego.

I did miss Nicki tho. Anyone know why she seems to have been written out? Actress moving on? SHe had a presence that just popped off the screen.

See above.

Natasha Lyonne has been keeping busy, with several TV appearances last year, and  a couple of movies (one as producer) in 2016.

 

re Ruby Rose / Stella:

Really? Hmmmm, no. She was boring and turned really pathetic with the stealing and all.

 

Definitely not the "break-out"star for me.

 

I never would have thought it possible, but my favorite characters of the season were Black Cindy, Tucky and Boo.

Me too!

 

 

I'm really having a hard time believing that a corporation (and yes, even an evil corporation like this one) would only hire part-time guards simply so they didn't have to pay for health insurance--these aren't retail employees, they may not be the highest paid people, but they are professionals who actually put their life at risk.  If it were me, I would have walked off that job a long time ago and just gotten a job at Wal-Mart.

Prison corporations are about the evilist evil there is. Prisons are run as "plantations" with the prisoners, most of whom, not coincidently, are People of Color, are slaves. And of course, the general public will believe any lie about how great prisoners are treated, and discount any hardship because "they deserve it".

 

See you all in June!