S03.E13: Trust No Bitch

[gemini22]

You guys bring up an interesting point about Morello.  She seems so sad and vulnerable that she can evoke a lot of pity, but her actions are terrible, violent, and kind of deranged.  That is what is so compelling about this show.  The person that seemed so sweet for entire season and a half is an obsessive monster in a lot of ways, but only in a particular context. Otherwise, she essentially harmless.  It's kind of fascinating.  I like that they play with people having specific activation points.  Like Tastee's was V, Morello's is Christopher, or Gloria's was triggered her feelings of impotence around her son so she made some bad choices.  These triggers turn them into the worst versions of themselves.

[Chaos Theory]

You guys bring up an interesting point about Morello. She seems so sad and vulnerable that she can evoke a lot of pity, but her actions are terrible, violent, and kind of deranged. That is what is so compelling about this show. The person that seemed so sweet for entire season and a half is an obsessive monster in a lot of ways, but only in a particular context. Otherwise, she essentially harmless. It's kind of fascinating. I like that they play with people having specific activation points. Like Tastee's was V, Morello's is Christopher, or Gloria's was triggered her feelings of impotence around her son so she made some bad choices. These triggers turn them into the worst versions of themselves.

But isn't that what prison does? Gloria's entire season arc was wanting to be a good parent but not being able to be because she had no ability to threaten her son with consiquences so when she was given a glimmer of hope with Sophia who was also trying to be a good parent things devolved quickly badly and violently.

[Janet Snakehole]

Morello has also said some super racist things. I have a hard time with her, I go very back and forth.

At least Piper got stuck with two very stupid tattoos she has to live with for the rest of her life.

[Chaos Theory]

Maybe I don't have a problem with Morello because o know someone like her. Not incredibly smart, very sweet and occasionally says racist shit that she doesn't quite understand is racist but isn't really racist because she says it right in front of her very black friends. It's not meant to be mean she just doesn't know that what she says is racist. Whe don't always call her on it.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[smrou]

You guys bring up an interesting point about Morello.  She seems so sad and vulnerable that she can evoke a lot of pity, but her actions are terrible, violent, and kind of deranged.

I find both Morello and Suzanne really interesting for similar reasons. They have very different personalities, but they're both intensely vulnerable and have this childlike sweetness about them. But they also both have very dark sides. Morello with her ongoing obsession with and violence toward Christopher and Suzanne with her not-really-under-control anger, her beating up of Poussey (for Vee), and intensely creepy behavior toward Piper in season one. Plus we still don't know what she did to get into prison. One significant difference is that Suzanne's instability is so evident that people are aware of it and at least to a certain extent she's getting some help, whereas Morello's got almost everyone fooled, at times even herself (or at least that's how it seemed in the past--this season I didn't see that). And I think that's what can make it difficult for people to sympathize with her because it means she's not working on getting better. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by smrou

[hkit]

I do not root for someone who, behind bars, has twice attempted to terrorize the victim of the crime for which she has been incarcerated. Very big difference between Morello and the other characters. 

 

I'm not defending Morello at all, but if we are being honest, there isn't one person on this show who I'd want to know in real life. OK, maybe Yoga Jones. It's hard to root for any of them. I think Morello's behaviors make it very difficult to emphasize with her any further, but I believe that this may be one of the more true to life depictions of morality we've seen on this show.

[aprilbabe]

I dont get the gripe with Morello saying racist things, almost ALL of the inmates have said racist stuff.  None of them are paticularly politcally correct. Since I dont hold it agaisnt the other characters I don't hold it against her either.

 

Piper was insufferable this season and I never had a problem with her previously. The mob boss thing is stupid. What she's doing would make sense if she was in prison for years. But she has less than a year left in prison, hardly seems worth it. And shes not in the same boat as many of the other inmates, in that she has a well to do family, I doubt they will let her live on the street when she gets outs. Is living with her parents ideal? No.. But tough shit. And I also find it hard to believe she doesn't have a savings account. I really hope she gets knocked down a peg or two next season.

[jellywager]

I do not root for someone who, behind bars, has twice attempted to terrorize the victim of the crime for which she has been incarcerated. Very big difference between Morello and the other characters.

Yeah, I felt bad for him because all he did was ask her out on a date,and decided she wasn't fir him. When Christopher came to the prison to tell Morello off last season she deserved it. I can imagine his frustration when he had to take getting his stalker sent to prison so he can be left alone and she still won't stop. Shel, probably get out of prison and make Christopher so dime thing to get sent to prison. He can't be to stable since he was looking for love from prision mates.

[ThatsDarling]

That lake scene went on too long for my liking. Black Cindy's conversion was moving, though, and I did giggle when Suzanne presented the turtle to her admirer. 

 

I've been very impressed by Taylor Schilling's acting in the past, but I'm not buying her transformation into a ruthless alpha female. Glad she sent Stella to max, though. She was such a random addition to the show and the two of them had no chemistry together. 

 

Don't know how much longer this show can stay good. 

[knaankos]

The Piper storyline was a disaster this season from beginning to end. Schilling's acting was horrendous, as suddenly Piper seems to have mo emotions whatsoever and responds to everything in a detached, calm, flippant and goofy way. That does not make for a compelling character at all. I get that they are trying to make her into some kind of bad guy now and we are supposed to hate her but in this case it is not good for the show. Piper's "transformation" has not been subtle or particularly well done, it came of nowhere this season. I had to laugh at the writers of this show having the gaul to reference the greatest show this century (Breaking Bad) and the Walter White transformation, which was masterfully done and reference it in flippant way as if we are supposed to make the connection that ohhhh Piper is making a smilier transformation. Please. 

[millennium]

I'm glad that's over.    It wouldn't bother me at all if this show never came back.

 

I don't know if it was an intentional effect by the show creators, but watching this season made me feel imprisoned.   The tedium and monotony of each episode were as inescapable as those beige uniforms.  So much screen time wasted on Daya, the most uninteresting character and storyline, and her mother, the most reprehensible.   Bennett managed to duck out -- why couldn't I?

 

The cult of Norma was beyond absurd.  It's like the show's gotten too big for its britches, to a point where the creators feel they can foist any implausibility upon the audience without repercussions.   Not only that, it put too much emphasis on meth head Leanne.

 

Were we supposed to feel good about Morello's wedding?   After she just scammed her new husband into assaulting the innocent guy she criminally stalked for years?

 

The lake scene was another big "as if."   Does anyone truly believe the inmates could frolic for any extended period of time without being rushed by guards, even incompetent guards?   I thought for sure one of the rent-a-cops would rush in, overreact and put a bullet into someone.   But no, instead the women are building sandcastles, performing Jewish rituals, dangling their feet in the water and engaging in cruelty to animals (you don't THROW turtles).

 

I think this is the end of the line for me.   

Edited June 18, 2015 by millennium

[HoboShoes]

After bingewatching 'em all here are my final thoughts:

 

Things that made me happy:

1. I LOVVVED Chang's backstory. Never saw that coming. Love Chang even more now.

2. THE CHICKEN! So happy to see the chicken. I'll never feel complete closure with this show until Red gets her chicken.

3. The cameo with Rosa pre-cancer made me smile so big.

 

Things that didn't make me happy:

1. All those new prisoners. Double bunks in the cubes. I have this sick feeling in my stomach the new character overload will be just too much, and I am genuinely worried about Season 4, hoping they don't run the show into the ground with all the "new blood".

2. I flippin' miss Nikki so bad. :(

3. The rape scenes with Doggett made me feel so sad for her. Had you told me back in season 1 I would ever, EVER feel anything positive for good 'ol Pennsatucky I would have thought you were nuts. Though I'm happy to see her (and paired with Boo) I now worry about poor Maritza.

 

But anyhow, no matter how much some of the plot lines dragged out for me, it was all redeemed with the chicken and knowing there was hope Red would get her kiev someday and consume it's power. :))))))

[DrSpaceman]

I was actually underwhelmed by the finale. 

 

I too thought the scene in the water went on far too long. 

 

I don't think the actress can pull off a dramatic Piper like they are attempting to do.  And that was a way over the top reaction by Piper to what happened.  Sending someone to max when they are about to be released?  I hope Piper just stays in jail.  She says she had another 6-12 months in jail and I have stated on other threads, she needs this enterprise for when she is released far less than the others in prison.  She more than any of the other women has options when she gets out.  She had a short prison term where she could have just sucked it up, served her time, gotten out and resumed her life.  Instead she has chosen to become more of a ciminal

 

Daya's mom is a bitch and I can't believe Daya didn't have more of a reaction to what she did.  I would be done with her after that move.  Now her kid is in foster care because her mother is a selfish and thinks only of herself.  She can say she did it for Daya, that is a lie. 

 

The wedding was amusing, but that will not end well.  I think it just feeds into Morello's delusion more. 

 

Boo and Pensatucky were my favorite part of the season, which is a surprise.  ANd that was BRILLIANT how she got away from driving the van.  Fake seizure, excellent job. 

 

Good to see Mike Bribiglia quit and tell off his dead.  I was sad to see Caputo cave. 

 

I found it unbelievable they would leave the fence open like that and allow them to escape, guards or no guards. 

[Boilergal]

Morello makes me think of a great French Film called He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not - it's worth a watch if you don't mind subtitles.

 

The lake scene was a way too long.  The Martha Stewart/Paula Deen character next year is meh...I'm guessing she will be in competition with Red.  But she already has a following of girls in prison so she should do fine.

 

I like Poussey and Soso getting together - and it looks like Soso is accepted...but can Poussey really put up with all of that talking...ugh

 

If Alex doesn't come back I'd be happy - didn't miss her in season 2.

 

Added drama of 4 people sharing a space for 2...eh we'll see.

 

Fig turns up preggers?

[Stitsch]

Morello is spiraling. She's falling back onto the delusions she tried to escape before. Let's not forget that she stopped dolling herself up after Nicky was sent to Max, then completely forgot about Nicky... what, two or three episodes later? She's spiraling, definitely, and this half-baked marriage to a slightly psychotic guy isn't going to do help matters as much as it is going to harm her. I really want to see Morello expanded on in season four.

 

I'm with everybody else who enjoyed Boosatucky. Never thought I'd say that sentence based on how season one went, but alas.

 

IMO, season three didn't have any strong narrative threads. A lot of the scenes felt mishmashed together, especially at the beginning of the season. Piper's storyline was weak and her dismissal of Alex's paranoia absolutely disgusting. The MCC storyline was executed poorly. Norma's religion storyline went on far too long. Every backstory, with perhaps the exception of Boo's, was as half-baked as Lorna's marriage. And seriously, Ruby Rose was a shit actress. What was her purpose? She served absolutely no purpose.

 

However, as I already mentioned, I enjoyed Boosatucky. I also enjoyed Suzanne's smut storyline, the snippets of Bell/O'Neill, Berdie, and Maxwell. And I especially liked Soso's transformation. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by Stitsch

[millennium]

Another complaint: gratuitous raunch.

 

I felt bombarded this season.    Scenes and dialogue about odoriferous panties, cheese and tuna mixtures to simulate odoriferous panties, rape, broomsticks up the ass, Caputo up the ass, handjobs, Suzanne's fiction, Piper going down on Alex, When Piper Met Sally, does Sophia have a dick, and so on.

 

I could never recommend this show to anyone I know simply because I wouldn't want it known I sat through that.   To be honest, I'm kind of ashamed of myself that I did, especially because the story wasn't strong enough to offset the sleaze. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by millennium

[DropTheSoap]

I'm liking Piper more this season, but I really don't think she sees the long game enough to be the Godfather. I did like her setup of Stella, though.

Nicky was missed. I always like Natasha Lyonne.

Boo/Penn was well done. If they were going to Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, they should have tattooed the dude. At least wrote across his face in sharpie or something.

I hope Soso stays "black". Liked seeing Taystee and crew looking out for her. She and Poussey could be an interesting match.

I was hoping Norma would sing when she was out on the pier.

I did like Suzanne the writer. I'm hoping they find something for her and her admirer next season. I also want to see the actress in other roles. Many of the actresses seem capable of such a range, if given the chance.

I hope Alex is okay/back. I like her and the character.

I'm hoping baby Daya still has a chance with Pornstache's mom.

[Pixel]

Very big difference between Morello and the other characters.

 

I get what you're saying, but if I think about it too much I can't stand Black Cindy. I loved her until I saw her backstory, and then I found her so reprehensible it was just about impossible for me to find her funny again. It took a while, but about halfway through this season I started liking her again.  

[Trichromatic]

I wasn't expecting to like Black Cindy's conversion SL so much, but by the time she gave that emotional speech with the Rabbi I was completely sold. Not sure how I feel about the lake baptism, considering how unlikely the whole scenario was. But on the whole that was one of my favourite storylines.

Add me to the list of people who like the Boo/Pennsatucky pairing. Didn't quite get whether they raped the guard or not in the end. I know they had a conversation about whether or not he felt bad he raped her, and therefore they should be feeling bad too but I was dozing off at that point. Can anyone fill me in?

 

I'm not all out against the Morello marriage and can definitley get past the Christopher thing if it turns out that this shows us a good example of how a prison marriage can(not) work. On the other hand, how much of an un-questioning idiot is her fiance/husband to just go beat up any random guy his girlfriend tells him to? Like, doesn't he ask her even one question about it?

Edited June 19, 2015 by Trichromatic

[woodscommaelle]

If only Chariots of Fire was playing (a la Clark and Rusty Griswold running to Wally World) when the inmates ran to the lake.

Loved that, before the mikvah, Black Cindy was only Jew-ish.

No interest in Stella/Ruby Rose. Don't see what the hype was.

Sad the season is over. Guess I'll have to re-binge watch as I have three weeks left on my Netflix.

Edited June 20, 2015 by woodscommaelle

[stopeslite]

 

The Martha Stewart/Paula Deen character next year is meh...I'm guessing she will be in competition with Red.

 

I don't think we'll see her again. She's another part of the colossal screw-up of that day. She was going to go to another prison, her (agent? husband?) changed his mind and they went to Litchfield, but nobody was there to meet them. I'm guessing they turned right around and went back to the first choice. If she had stayed, the inmates would have been thrilled, and there would suddenly have been a lot of attention paid to the prison itself, with an inmate who is able to agitate publicity in a huge way. It would have been a big opportunity for the prison and for Caputo to get more resources. So, naturally, it didn't happen.

 

The whole theme of the season seems to be trying to get what you want, getting so close to it, then getting it snatched away or otherwise broken. It's all through the flashbacks and the current situations. Leanne got her family and her religion, and then got it taken away. Flaca got away from sewing, and now is right back doing it. Norma got her own cult, then lost it. Piper got Alex back, but Alex rejected her and she put Alex in more danger. Tiffany got a friend in the guard, then ended up right back in the situation of men only using her for sex. Boo got away from a family that told her she didn't look right, to be told by the pastor she didn't look right. Aleida kept the baby, but got it (and all her other kids) taken away to foster care. It follows that they got so close to having a huge public advocate for the prison, someone the inmates would honestly enjoy having around, and then didn't because she showed up an hour after all the guards quit.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Add me to the list of people who like the Boo/Pennsatucky pairing. Didn't quite get whether they raped the guard or not in the end. I know they had a conversation about whether or not he felt bad he raped her, and therefore they should be feeling bad too but I was dozing off at that point. Can anyone fill me in?

 

Neither of them could go through with it.  Boo tried to pressure Penn because it would be poetic justice.  Penn said she isn't really angry though; she's just sad.  Plus she doesn't have any experience raping people so she wouldn't even know how to start.  Boo said she didn't either.  Neither of them are bad enough people to go through with it.  They just left him like that and went back.

[mansonlamps]

I thought the saddest story of all was Pennsatucky and Donuts. He really seemed to enjoy her company, but then of course he had to wind up being a sadist and a rapist. Why? It made for a compelling story but all the unhappy endings make for too depressing a show.

[Kel Varnsen]

Wow,  lot of things happened!

 

What Piper did to Stella was cold, but isn't that rule #1 in prison? She was going to lose her business otherwise. No one was going to respect her anymore. And you can't allow that in prison.

Except, isn't another big prison rule "don't be a snitch"? Setting another prisoner up with the guards like that seems really dangerous, or at least a really good way to ruin any reputation you might have.

Also why did the money thing have to be so overly complex? The girls were only making like $8 a pair. Why couldn't Cal just deposit the money in their comissary accounts each week?

[BonnieD]

I haven't been a Piper fan since the beginning and actually decided not to watch after the pilot episode--until a few weeks ago when I binge watched everything.
Now I'm quite interested in where they're going with Piper. I felt I understood what the writers were trying to do with the character, show her devolving into the absolute worst version of herself. A common theme throughout this season for all the characters.
We always knew she was a thrill seeker. Her crazy insistence on running the panty business despite the short length of her prison sentence is because she craves the danger. She's also a serial cheater. At least she felt guilty about being attracted to Alex while engaged to Larry, but she's moved far past that now. She's given herself carte blanch to do whatever she wants whenever she wants all in the name of being "tough".  I think her cruel teasing of Alex about being paranoid was because she's still deeply angry with Alex about getting her into all this to begin with--and then flipping her position during the court case. Piper's super passive aggressive and that's how her anger displays itself, that "I'm just kidding around" goofy smile when she continued to dig at Alex.

I laughed my ass off when the Aussie told her she was leaving in two days. Hah! Take that, Piper. But of course Piper had to demonstrate her new bad ass persona and have the last laugh.

I may not like Piper. In fact I actively dislike her. But I do appreciate the story arc the writers are creating for her.

[Sakura12]

I kind of liked Piper turning into a stone cold bitch. The rest of them thought Piper was going to let Stella off easy but she got her thrown in Max. She should learn to not let them see it coming then go for the jugular

 

I was wondering when Poussey and SoSo were going to find each other, they were both lonely, looking for love and a place to belong and SoSo likes women. I was glad she didn't die. I gotta support my fellow Hapa.

 

Big Boo and Tucky, never thought I'd love them so much together. Their friendship was one of the bright spots of this season. While harsh, I did like her getting through to Tucky that she was raped and it's not okay. I'm also glad they both couldn't go through their Girl with the Dragon Tattoo plan. But I do hope they don't let that the other go through that.

 

Also wrong time to grow a pair Cuputo. You do need those guards more than they need you. 

 

Finally, I liked that the inmates got to have some fun on the beach. Of course they'll be coming back to sharing a cube with 3 other women now. 

 

Don't really care what happens to Alex, but I also think Lolly saw Toothpick go into the shed with Alex and will save her. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Sakura12

[CleoCaesar]

The shot of the new prisoners at the end made me roll my eyes. One of the biggest, most bloated casts on a show gets...even more bloated? I finally feel like I have everyone's name and backstory straight. NO MORE NEW CHARACTERS. That was a significant weakness of this season - instead of well-plotted long plot arcs, each episode relied on the "here's a minor character's backstory!" crutch. And no, I don't count Piper's panty empire a compelling storyarc.

[SeenYouWitKieffah]

I am not looking forward to a bunch of new characters either. This season was lackluster - not especially dramatic or especially funny. The only good parts were the occasional memorable storyline (eg. Suzanne's erotica) and getting a deeper understanding of characters we already know (Nicky, Pennsatucky, Boo). If we have to spend a bunch more time next season getting to know more people, it's going to really cut into time the show NEEDS for compelling story arcs. Tell us about Maritza! Tell us why Suzanne is in prison! Visit Claudette and Nicky in max! Go into deeper exploration of the othering of Sophia! 

[theredhead77]

Hear me out.

Does anyone feel like the bust on Ceasar was orchestrated by Bennett? That's why he left Litchfield. Spent his time doing it all to get the baby off of Ceasar in the end while Dia is still in Prison.

He left Dias crib on the side of the road. Wanting everything fresh and new. Not to have the schizophrenic home life Dia had.

I immediately thought Bennett was behind it.

[Clanstarling]

I've been very impressed by Taylor Schilling's acting in the past, but I'm not buying her transformation into a ruthless alpha female. Glad she sent Stella to max, though. She was such a random addition to the show and the two of them had no chemistry together.  

See, for me it's the opposite. I haven't been at all impressed with Taylor Schilling's acting, but when she turned stone cold after setting Stella up, I could feel the chill from my couch. She reminded me of Red in the first season.

 

All I could think about when the prisoners went through the fence was how much time would be added to their sentences (for, essentially, escaping). I enjoyed the scene, nevertheless.

 

I was as shocked as anyone that Black Cindy would be a character who could make me tear up, or that Pennsatucky would be someone I actually grew to like. Or for that matter, that Gloria's POS boyfriend would be worried about the kids (and tender with Daya's child) while he was fighting off the officers, enough so that I felt the tiniest bit of sympathy for him.

 

I'm still unsure as to why Norma was in Litchfield. Murder isn't typically a federal crime (though maybe they were in a national park when she killed grumpy guru). I did think that story line went on too long, but liked that she and Red reconciled in the end.

[Febgirl]

Whew! Done! 

 I really liked the extended sequence in the lake-- Water, in the form of the storm, played a big part at the end of Season 2, so I liked how the less destructive, healing idea of water made its way into the storyline.

 This season's MVPs for me were: Big Boo and Pennsatucky, and Black Cindy.  I felt the most invested in their stories.

 The 30 seconds I got of Miss Rosa, with hair, watching Wrestling, was perhaps the best part of this season for me.

I want someone to topple Piper's reign as Queen Bitch.  I am hoping it comes from the most unlikely of prisoners.

[WatchrTina]

THE GOOD

Black Jew-ish Cindy's impromptu mikva.

 

The hopeful pairings of Poussey/Soso and Suzanne/NeedyBadPoetryGirl

 

Daya's baby being extricated from a bad situation (though I know we can't be sure foster care will be a step up.)

 

Piper setting up TattoGirl.  I call it good because it was unexpected.  Other than that, the whole stinky-panty storyline goes in the BAD column.

 

I liked Morello getting married because her husband is an idiot and they deserve each other.  They might be soul-mates.  Though of course he's eventually going to find out that she in for stalking and that he beat up the victim of her crimes so there will be fallout from that but I actually think that might be interesting.

 

THE BAD

The whole stinky-panty storyline.

 

No way would Alex's nemesis actually take a job as a prison guard just to get back at her and no way would she see him for the first time when she just happens to be alone in an enclosed space, far from anyone else who might hear her screams.  On the other hand -- if this is how Alex exists the show (feet first) and her murder turns out to be the trigger for Caputo being able to undo some of the awfulness imposed on the prison by the big bad corporation -- well then I'll switch that at the category of "Necessary evil."  But really, it's just bad writing.

 

THE UGLY

Piper displaying her street cred by setting up TattooGril to go to Maximum 2 days before her release.  It was a surprising story development, which I liked, but as Boo said, that was stone cold and ugly.

[Bubbetv]

I'm with you on all of that, and would add to the good- Piper's brother. His writers are great!

[charming]

I was surprised to find myself happy that Soso wasn't dead. Taystee, Poussey, and Crazy Eyes found her and without hesitation wanted to protect her from being sent to the Psych Ward was unexpected. Then Soso is floating in the water I think she's going to try and drown herself but Poussey comes along and grabs her hand! Then she brings her to the rest of the girls and they accept her. I teared up! I didn't know how much I would love it.

 

I loved Black Cindy's storyline and Boo protecting Tucky this season. 

 

Why is Piper even on this show? I've watched Walter White, you ma'am are no Walter White.

[lorikauai]

Beyond thrilled to see Poussey and Soso since I have shipped them since we met Soso in season 2. Loved Black Cindy's conversion, the Boo/Pennsatucky friendship,   Suzanne the erotica author, and Morello finding her match (which will obviously crash and burn). I didn't even mind the Red/Healy relationship, which I consider to be more of a friendship than anything. Piper's story got a bit old, as did the Norma cult, and I was disappointed that we didn't get rid of the rapey prison guard. I'm probably alone in that I don't miss Nicky one bit. I never found her very interesting, just a selfish, bratty addict to me.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Daya's baby being extricated from a bad situation (though I know we can't be sure foster care will be a step up.)

 

Foster care?  I was under the impression that Aleida gave the kid to some relative of theirs.  That's who I heard picked up the baby at the hospital.

[90PercentGravity]

Cesar had Daya's baby when they raided his apartment. The baby was taken by the cops.

[notyrmomma]

I know this is TV and all, but I think they have taken a little too much poetic license in this episode...I was very distracted on how unrealistic it was. 

-Daya was in hard labor at her bunk? Uh, no. 

-Mom-stash would have "lawyer-ed up" the second Daya agreed to let her adopt the baby..there is no way she would have found out the baby died from a collect call from another prisoner. 

-I'm really having a hard time believing that a corporation (and yes, even an evil corporation like this one) would only hire part-time guards simply so they didn't have to pay for health insurance--these aren't retail employees, they may not be the highest paid people, but they are professionals who actually put their life at risk.  If it were me, I would have walked off that job a long time ago and just gotten a job at Wal-Mart.

-And overall, the inmates driving the van is ridiculous.  A vehicle can be deadlier than a gun...why would a prison let an inmate drive a guard?  Why doesn't the guard just drive the van and go where he needs to go?

[Kel Varnsen]

Neither of them could go through with it.  Boo tried to pressure Penn because it would be poetic justice.  Penn said she isn't really angry though; she's just sad.  Plus she doesn't have any experience raping people so she wouldn't even know how to start.  Boo said she didn't either.  Neither of them are bad enough people to go through with it.  They just left him like that and went back.

The only thing that bugged me about that, was that it seemed to them that the only options were either do nothing, or rape him with a broom handle. They had an unconscious guard that they wanted revenge on, could they not have thought of something to do to him that would at least get his ass fired? At least steal his uniform or put him in an inmates bed or something. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Kel Varnsen

[designing1]

 

And overall, the inmates driving the van is ridiculous.  A vehicle can be deadlier than a gun...why would a prison let an inmate drive a guard?  Why doesn't the guard just drive the van and go where he needs to go?

 

I have never, ever, understood this.

[Thog]

There are several articles out there now about what is and is not realistic about the show's portrayal of prison life. Surprisingly, prisoners driving the van is one thing they got right. One of the articles said they don't even always have guards with them.

 

I loved the look of unbridled joy in Suzanne's eyes as she ran toward the lake. It was a crazy delirious moment for all of them, but somehow she managed to capture it so well I nearly cried. (But then she went and threw a turtle, and I liked her a lot less.)

 

I really felt for Soso throughout so much of this season. In a racially segregated system she wasn't accepted by either side of her heritage - too white for the Asians, too Asian for the whites. So I'm thrilled and a little amused that she's found acceptance from one group that she can't claim ties to at all. And I love her for bringing back that brilliant smile on Poussey's face.

 

I hate that Sophia is still in the SHU and the rapist never got punished, but I guess they had to leave something for next year.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Thog

[Ms Blue Jay]

I really felt for Soso throughout so much of this season. In a racially segregated system she wasn't accepted by either side of her heritage - too white for the Asians, too Asian for the whites. So I'm thrilled and a little amused that she's found acceptance from one group that she can't claim ties to at all. And I love her for bringing back that brilliant smile on Poussey's face.

 

In my experience it's very relateable for a racial minority to be accepted by other racial minorities regardless of actual race.... that's the "tie" between the group.  

[Sakura12]

I didn't like her much last season when she was Piper's Piper. But man did I feel Soso this season As a half Asian I really related to her storyline. To Asians we're White, to White's we're Asian. We're stuck in-between it's not our fault we can't commit to being Asian. I have also found more acceptance with other racial minorities. 

[mledawn]

In my experience it's very relateable for a racial minority to be accepted by other racial minorities regardless of actual race.... that's the "tie" between the group.  

 

That is what I would have thought, too - and I'm glad that has been your experience, Ms Blue Jay (and Sakura12). Unfortunately, I was surprised to experience the opposite with friends of mine. I think, like all things, it just totally depends (and my experience was almost two decades ago). I'm glad the show has gone the positive route here, though!

 

I really enjoyed the finale, one of my favourite episodes of the season. I think the last scenes, of the new prisoners arriving and the bunks going in, was a good way to end off, as well.

Edited June 22, 2015 by mledawn

[possibilities]

-Daya was in hard labor at her bunk? Uh, no.

I put "childbirth in prison" into duckduckgo (search engine) and immediately got hits about how women are actually shackled at the ankles and wrists during birth in most states, among other horrors, so if anything, it might be that Daya's experience is nicer than what is typical.

 

When a previous inmate gave birth on OITNB, they said she couldn't go to the hospital until her contractions were one minute apart, so Daya's story seemed like nothing new as far as that's concerned. But in looking into the general situation of pregnant women in prison, it seems there is not universal policy about something like how far apart contractions would be before medical supervision was provided, but the entire system seems to be grossly negligent and generally informal. I stopped reading after I got sufficiently upset to think the show is actually portraying a much sweeter experience than the reality, but if you want to know more, just do a websearch and all the horror stories you could ask for are readily available. Have a barf bag nearby because it's gruesome.

 

I found a lot of stuff about how actual prisoners or ex-prisoners feel OITNB is minimizing the realities of incarceration for mothers and their children, and that the show makes prison sound like a country club compared to the reality. So I am inclined to think they're not exaggerating when they leave Daya to labor in her bunk.

 

One story I read was about a woman who was already in the prison infirmary and still couldn't get medical attention during her labor, despite being considered high risk; she was actually told to shut up and threatened with disciplinary action when she begged for help during the delivery. Her baby died.

 

And apparently this is typical not only for pregnant and laboring women, but for all prisoners in need of medical care. It's just not taken very seriously in a lot of cases.

 

 

 

-Mom-stash would have "lawyer-ed up" the second Daya agreed to let her adopt the baby..there is no way she would have found out the baby died from a collect call from another prisoner.

You can't sign away parental rights until after the birth, so I'm not sure what legal rights she would have had or why she would think a lawyer would make any difference. Probably any lawyer would have advised her to not get involved in the first place, especially once it was determined that her son was not the actual father. If Daya's mom says the baby is dead, and she doesn't hear from Daya otherwise, she can assume that either it's true or they decided to not give the kid to her. She has no legal standing to take the kid, whether Daya's mom is lying or not. But it's shown that she believed everything both Daya and Aleida said to her all along, so if that's the case, I could buy that she either continued to believe, or realized there was nothing she could do about it anyway. Whether it's realistic for her to believe, I don't know. But it wouldn't really matter anyway, I don't think. I suppose she could report that Daya said her son was not the father, and try to get the prison to figure out who was. But that would get Bennett in trouble without giving MamaPornstache any more access to the kid.

 

 

 

I'm really having a hard time believing that a corporation (and yes, even an evil corporation like this one) would only hire part-time guards simply so they didn't have to pay for health insurance-

I put "private prison labor practices" into a websearch and found numerous sources that said that private prisons typically cut expenses primarily by cutting labor costs, using a combination of lower wages (often cutting them to half what they were before), fewer benefits, and cutting staffing ratios (fewer guards per inmate). I didn't get deep enough into the articles (some were 60 pages long) to see if they use part timers, but I did see that they are famous for also drastically cutting training of the people they hire, and using non-union, non-professional staff. There is widespread evidence that the rates of violence and even prisoner escapes is much higher in private facilities, as well as more rapid staff turnover, no doubt because of these conditions. It seems to me that OITNB is not exaggerating.

 

I agree it's all ridiculous, but I'm not convinced it's moreso than the reality, which is really, really upsetting once you think about it. Either way, the information is readily available. I was surprised at how well documented and easily accessible the info is, and that makes it even worse, because it's not like there's been some giant cover up and no one knows. It's happening in broad daylight, and the biggest condemnation is that apparently no one cares.

 

To make it all worse, I read a Bureau of Prisons report that concluded that in the end, private prisons did not even cost the government less than publicly run prisons-- the outcomes were worse, and the savings were at most 1%. The profits earned by the private companies apparently offset the "savings" they get from staff cuts and other measures (like outsourcing meals and other supplies; that was the other main area I read was used to cut costs, besides staff expenses).

 

Many private prisons also have a contract that requires the government to keep their beds full, even when crime rates go down. So there's no way to reduce systemwide costs, by reducing crime rates either! Honestly, I had heard a lot of bad stuff about privatizing prisons, but that one was new!

Edited June 22, 2015 by possibilities

[ThatsDarling]

I was bugged that Soso was shown as having a tiger mom in her flashback. What lazy writing. 

[Lasdee]

I overall liked this season. I didn't find any of the storylines particullary boring like I did last season.

I think Piper is just bored. She is pretty smart and with burned books and nothing to do in prison she is trying to find her purpose. And with her crooked sense of morality I am not surprised she has found something like this to do. 

Ruby Rose's addition was just... meh. I mean yeah, she is hot, but her character was going from anywhere to nowhere, with no developement, nothing. 

Am I one of the few people who like Alex? I hope she is OK.

A would have never thought I would like Boo and Pennsatucky. But their friendship was a highlight for me. I am still disgusted with the rape. I feel like that guy did not even know he had it in him. But when he felt the power he felt invincible and discovered what a real, creepy disgusting person he is. 

I have never liked Black Cindy or Morello and nothing has changed. 

I do, however, liked Suzanne and her story writing. It was funny and upbeat. And at the end when she was standing next to that girl (have we even heard her name?) and they were acting like little kids in love, it was almost unbearably cute. 

Red and Healy, well Healy is a misogynist asshole for me, so that's that. 

Excited about Soso/Poussey.

Changing my opinion, there is one storyline that bored me. Daya and her mother.

And since I can't stand that blonde meth head, I did not enjoyed Norma's cult very much.

But otherwise, I am looking forward to the next season :)

[baky]

I overall liked this season. I didn't find any of the storylines particullary boring like I did last season.

I think Piper is just bored. She is pretty smart and with burned books and nothing to do in prison she is trying to find her purpose. And with her crooked sense of morality I am not surprised she has found something like this to do. 

Ruby Rose's addition was just... meh. I mean yeah, she is hot, but her character was going from anywhere to nowhere, with no developement, nothing. 

Am I one of the few people who like Alex? I hope she is OK.

A would have never thought I would like Boo and Pennsatucky. But their friendship was a highlight for me. I am still disgusted with the rape. I feel like that guy did not even know he had it in him. But when he felt the power he felt invincible and discovered what a real, creepy disgusting person he is. 

I have never liked Black Cindy or Morello and nothing has changed. 

I do, however, liked Suzanne and her story writing. It was funny and upbeat. And at the end when she was standing next to that girl (have we even heard her name?) and they were acting like little kids in love, it was almost unbearably cute. 

Red and Healy, well Healy is a misogynist asshole for me, so that's that. 

Excited about Soso/Poussey.

Changing my opinion, there is one storyline that bored me. Daya and her mother.

And since I can't stand that blonde meth head, I did not enjoyed Norma's cult very much.

But otherwise, I am looking forward to the next season :)

Nope. I like Alex and highly hope she's fine. But she will be fine because Laura Prepon/Alex is a big part of the show if you look at the fandom.

Some random thoughts/things I enjoyed about this whole season/last episode:

-Piper wants power and she's sick of being considered the pretty waspy girl. She wants to feel relevant now that Alex is not paying attention to her. 

-The tattoos were genious. Trust No Bitch lol (+ her panties speech and that scene when she found that mobile phone)

-The lake scene was so heartwarming

-Soso joyning the club 

-Boo/Penn's friendship. Felt so bad for Penn :(

-That Rosa cameo!!!!!!

-The Chicken!!! That was fucking brilliant. Seriously

-There were a lot of good references: Hunger Games, Breaking Bad, Forrest Gump, etc.

-Loved the flashbacks. Don't know why but the Daya and Aleida's one almost made me cry

-Poussey/Taystee and the books funeral

-I enjoyed Gloria's arc. The actress who plays her is so good

-That Black Cindy story with koscher was hilarious. The show needs a lighter character like her

[peggy06]

I'm with you on all of that, and would add to the good- Piper's brother. His writers are great!

Yes! I came to this thread to say this. I'm not saying I like Cal as a person, but the dialogue they write for him is just so sharp and funny. I like his scenes with Piper.

 

The finale was pretty good. Glad they didn't have Soso succeed in committing suicide. We had enough sadness with Pennsatucky, Daya/Aleida, and Gloria/Sophia.The guards quitting like that was contrived. I actually liked Piper setting up Stella. Stella never, ever rang true for me, so it worked to have her turn out to be the one who took Piper's money. It made the previous not-quite-rightness of the character seem purposeful, rather than bad acting or writing. (I will say that Ruby Rose is gorgeous, almost distractingly so.) I knew when Piper gave Stella the Fredo kiss that she wasn't letting Stella off the hook, though I didn't foresee max. It was all a bit over the top, but well played, so I enjoyed that bit of the episode.

 

The lake scene was eh for me. Unrealistic and very sentimental.

 

I rolled my eyes at Black Cindy wanting to convert, but they gave her an excellent speech that won me over. Like someone said above, it was hard for me to get over the Cindy in her flashback, but the actress is just so alive and so good with her line-readings that I capitulated this season.

 

Extremely glad that Doggett is off van duty, and even more glad she didn't/couldn't go through with raping her rapist. She is such a sad person, so  vulnerable. She was still making excuses for him. Looks like she's watching out for Maritza, though. Why does an inmate have to drive the van anyway?

 

So sick of Leanne and her controlling behavior. After the way she acted toward Soso, and the racist stuff she spewed, I have zero sympathy for her.

 

Red and Healy - just no. Red is my favorite character, and Healy veers between pathetic egotist and disgusting misogynist. I get he has issues from childhood, but he is such a jerk. Soso had it right - he is terrible at his job. Does he reflect on her comment? No, he runs to someone he imagines will stroke his ego. Ugh. Anyway, Red would eat two of him for breakfast.

 

Of course they left a cliffhanger about Alex. I don't care, but if she comes back, please no more on-off relationship with Piper.

Edited June 24, 2015 by peggy06

[Gulftastic]

Writing Nichols out so early on was a big blow for me. I love her, and then marrying off her prison gf? No.

 

Loved, loved, loved, Penn and Big Boo. So glad they carried on their friendship from last season.

 

I also like new Top Dog Piper. She got some actual power and LOVED it. It'll be interesting to see how far that goes.

 

Black Cindy's plot seemed silly, but she knocked it out of the park with her speech to the Rabbi.

 

Suzanne and her new dandelion was adorbs.

 

When is next season? Can it be soon, please?