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S01.E05: Viper

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A NEW STREET DRUG STORMS THE STREETS OF GOTHAM ON AN ALL-NEW "GOTHAM" MONDAY, OCTOBER 20, ON FOX

 

Gordon and Bullock search for the source of a new street drug that causes euphoria then death. Meanwhile, Oswald Cobblepot works his way deeper into Maroni's (guest-star David Zayas) inner circle and Fish Mooney continues to plot against Falcone in the all-new "Viper" episode of GOTHAM

 

 

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They may be making Bruce too smart for his age. Did I know anything about offshore corporations when I was in junior high?

I dunno.  This is going to be Batman.  Batman is the smartest person in ANY room he's in (or if he's somehow not, he's at least the one prepared enough ahead of time to LOOK like he is).

 

A proto-Batman--a Batkid--is going to have a ton of emphasis on reading every damn thing he can get his hands on and knowing it backwards and forwards. Bruce Wayne is an obsessive personality. It's pretty much his defining characteristic, once you get past the flourishes, like dressing in tights.

Although to be fair, that obsessive core may not be as obvious to non-readers of the Batman comic itself in the past 30 years or so.  The Batmen on TV and in movies don't convey it quite the same (the movie ones can be freaky, mind-you, but it often emphasizes the fetishistic stuff over the obsessive need to know and control everything around him, the way most of the best comic book stories with Batman in the past 30 or so years have.

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I dunno.  This is going to be Batman. ...

For me, the key phrase here is "going to be"; he's NOT Batman yet. I just wish they'd be a little more subtle, at least with the child characters.

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There needs to be more Selina Kyle. I am fascinated by her, and seems like Camren Bicondova was born to play this part. It's uncanny how she looks and moves feline like. 

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I have over 5 inches on Jada Pinkett Smith.  But damn I'm scared of her.  

 

I guess they started to accelerate on Bruce becoming Batman.  With doing research without the Internet and watching an old school TV. 

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The CGI when guitar guy was crushed by the ATM machine was just terrible.

 

And Wayne Eneprises (or at least one of its subsidiaries) is an evil corporation -- that can't be good.

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"What's altruism?!?" was funny. Ditto "It's lunch!" Don't ever change, Bullock.

 

Good episode, especially with the Viper/Venom outbreak. Bruce is a little too precocious, but how can we know what's going through his little head? Besides, he and Alfred make for a dynamic duo . . . and capes aren't involved.

 

Hi, Selina! Bye, Selina!

 

Hi, Ed! Bye, Ed! I bet he had to adjust his pants after seeing Viper in action. Seriously, are we ever going to get more from him besides one shot per week, if that?

 

Penguin doesn't get to kill anybody this week. He does get to be neurotic, though, and that's just as fun to watch. "Hello!" Also, now I'm picturing him as a duded-up cowboy when he talks about "rodeos," and that's such a sweet image.

 

The mob big whose name I can't remember . . . is he so old that he wouldn't recognize Fish's "secret weapon" as a trap? She just dropped onto his lap, figuratively speaking. Oh, and nice to see Jada keeping trim after chewing on scenery. I know, old joke by now, but she does it so well.

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I guess they started to accelerate on Bruce becoming Batman

 

 

I think they are settling a Bruce and Serena against the evil in Gotham kind of partnership. I don't think we'll see Batman (cape, car, etc) anytime, and the very  last scene of this show will probably be Jim turning on that Bat signal on the sky.

 

I'm willing to give the guitar playes x ATM machine GCI a break, because the rest of this show is so pretty it hurts.

 

Jim, you sadness hurt me. You poor thing. Someone gives him a love interest he has chemistry with.

 

Five episodes in and I would love to know more about Harvey and Jada's pasts.

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Guest Accused Dingo

Well Fish's weapon hit its mark.

So now Gordon is stuck between two waring mobsters. Things would have been Simpler if he just killed Cobblepot....who is still moving up in the world.

Hey Bruce left his home. Good for you Bruce.

So Wayne Enterprices is an EvilCorp. I say the Wayne Enterprise Board killed the Waynes because they wanted to actually help Gotham instead of get rich off it. (Just my opinion)

Edited by Accused Dingo
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Bollocks continues to be the laziest detective in Gotham. Don't ever change, Harvey!

interesting that Wayne Enterprises might not be as altruistic (what's that mean?) as everyone thinks. Yeah, I'm wondering if they were involved with the Waynes' deaths, too.

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Best line of the night for me

"What's altruism?".

That was great.

I can't get over how gorgeous this show is. I just like looking at it, the sets are fantastic. Ben Mckenzie isn't bad either.

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Watch out, Title Card! Guitar Guy's comin' for ya!  With the "Breathe Me" label, I was wondering if it was proto-Mad Hatter. Glad it wasn't/isn't?

 

During the Selina/ food truck scene, I was thinking: "Laxidasical Cop is hungry! Needs food!"  (For old gamers.)  Margaret Colin!! Yay!!  She's a Bad Lawyer! Booooo!

Fish was just doin' her thing and TCB. Good to see that there are actually more lieutenants than just Fish.  (I counted 15 total folks in the hanger, including Falcone, so four Lt.s and the don?  Or at least, the four most important Lt.s?)  I am glad I guessed about the milk before the reveal.  That "side effect" of the drug? Is nasty.

 

We got to hear the first "official" use of the Penguin name! I can't really dislike Frankie, Maroni's lieutenant, especially as I'd act the same around Oswald. Harvey looks a little bit sexier with his reading glasses. Oh, I loved his mention of a 'beach body' during the aborted lunch! I think Jim may have genuinely smiled as well. After the Professor was awesome and scary, I realized: Harvey is the Worf for the show. If folks take down Harvey physically, then Harvey's opponent is pretty badass. Yes, even the woman from an episode or two back.  Adding to the "What's 'altruism'?" love! Great line.

 

Alfred got to be pretty cool and showed that he is very quick-thinking and quick-on-his-feet! Objective A) Protect Bruce. B) Get the eff outta Dodge.  I initially missed the elegant black woman's name and was hoping it was Dr. Thompkins, but she was all condescending to Bruce so that went away like a weather balloon.  Matthius  will need to be kept track of. Oh, look, she is. It's personal now for Alfred. Matthius and Wellzyn have ticked off the wrong gentleman's gentleman! *G*

 

Nico surely has to realize that Fish has no intention of sharing anything, right? Or does he think sex with her makes him safe? See? Misogyny hurts men too. Countdown for Nico has started. Also, Don Falcone? Meet the Secret Weapon.  Because Dons of Gotham can just sit in the open and feed pigeons and meet young women and listen to arias without any problem. (Yes, his bodyguards are probably just out of our eyesight, but if Secret Weapon wanted to have shivved Falcone, it would've gone off pretty smoothly.)

 

I enjoyed Ed's enthusiasm, if not his outlook. I am hoping for a longer chunk of input for at least one case. One where Jim and Harvey have to suck it up and just be civil to Edward. I smell a potential future at  Wellzyn too. (Just spec, but possible.)

 

Just so much to enjoy about this episode.  ( And yes, GaryE, I thought that too,and my mind was hurt trying to deal with that. *g*)

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Bollocks continues to be the laziest detective in Gotham. Don't ever change, Harvey!

interesting that Wayne Enterprises might not be as altruistic (what's that mean?) as everyone thinks. Yeah, I'm wondering if they were involved with the Waynes' deaths, too.

 

Yeah, Harvey rules!  Though Gordon is forcing him to work harder.

 

Really good episodes.  Enjoying David Zayas a lot in this role and his scenes with Taylor are great.  Oswald's whole "Hello!" bit was pretty funny.

 

Another underdeveloped villain but the old professor was pretty cool.  Also cool was the use of venom, which also happened to be Batman's drug of choice for a time too.  I liked Alfred getting in on the act at the end although I don't know how he couldn't find Bruce so exhausting. 

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I figured they were heading in that direction with Viper, but I still loved the Venom reference.  I so can't wait for the day we get a Young Bane, because that has to happen.

 

Jada Pinkett Smith finally might have met someone who can match her scenery chewing.  Jeremy Davidson was so over-the-top as Nikko.  I suspect that a lot of it had to do with that accent.  No wonder they are secretly lovers.  It's a match made in scenery chewing heaven!  Looks like Fish's plan is coming into motion; Falcone seems to be falling for her little "project", hook, line, and sinker.  I would assume that a guy at his age would be suspicious of a young, hot woman falling for him that easily, but I guess it's hard to be a mob boss, without having a massive ego.

 

Oh, Oswald.  You really are more entertaining then you should be.  But, I can't help but to still love your psychotic ass.  All his stuff with Gordon and Maroni just cracked me up. I loved how he kept trying to help Gordon with the interrogation, and Gordon was like "Dude, shut it!"  That duo is just awesome.  And David Zayas is a blast as Maroni; he seems to be having way more fun then almost his entire run on Dexter.  Credit to Gordon though, for handling it the best way possible.  Well, yeah, he's now under the thumb of TWO crime bosses, but he's still alive.  Hurrah for small victories!

 

Gordon and Bullock are still awesome.  Ben McKenzie and Donal Logue really work well together, and sell some of the weaker aspects of the "case of the week" stuff.  Bullock, in particular, got some great lines in this one.  But, I also liked that Gordon was somewhat amused at times with Bullock, and wasn't always just rolling his eyes and snapping at him.

 

Another episode, another scene of Nigma doing what Nigma does.  I'm guessing this is going to stay that way, until we get a big "Nigma-centric" episode.  But, I still want to see what everyone else thinks of him.  I have to think he's the guy the rest of the employees are gossiping about at the water-cooler, over what a creepy weirdo he is.

 

Bruce seems to be moving past his parents' death for now, and trying to figure out how Wayne Enterprise got involved with Falcone and Maroni.  Still not wild about his scenes, but I do like that Alfred seems to be helping him now.

 

Hey, a Selina sighting!  I hope we get more of her soon.

 

No Barbara this time.  And, where did Montoya and Allen go off too?

 

Hey, Margaret Colin!  No matter what, I still remember you as Constance Spano from Independence Day!

 

I highly enjoyed this episode.  I think this show works better when there is more humor, and is more willing to embrace the cheese. There was several silly moments as always, but I felt like Gordon and Bullock actually treated those moments like they also thought they was ridiculous, and that works for me.

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Just so much to enjoy about this episode.  ( And yes, GaryE, I thought that too,and my mind was hurt trying to deal with that. *g*)

Me, three GaryE and Actionmage! I did a double and triple take until I heard the accent! 

 

 

Hey, Margaret Colin!  No matter what, I still remember you as Constance Spano from Independence Day!

So great to see her. I'm going to date myself, but I remember her from As the World Turns (where she met her husband Justin Deas when they played Margo and Tom!)

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This was a decent transitional episode, I guess. Everybody was put where they had to go.  Now Gordon, is pretty much owned by Maroni,  Penguin is Maroni's stooley, Falcone is ensnared in Fish's trap ( and I bet the same is true about Fish in Falcone's) and we get pushed deeper into the Wayne murder mystery. 

 

That was a fairly creative new drug and I could tell they had fun with the side effects.

 

Please stop putting in the Riddler and Catwoman if you're not going to use them for anything other then to show us that they're younger versions of Penguin and Catwoman.

 

This is a competently made show but it feels like the show is treading water, which is pretty bad for only it's fifth show. I'll watch a few more episodes and hope it improves but if nothing of substance happens, I'm going to have to move on.

Edited by Oscirus

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So Wayne Enterprices is an EvilCorp. I say the Wayne Enterprise Board killed the Waynes because they wanted to actually help Gotham instead of get rich off it. (Just my opinion)

 

That would be an interesting twist I don't think we've ever gotten from a Batman story. It could also be an interesting piece of conflict between Bruce and Gordon later on. 

 

I agree that the quick Selina appearance was random and annoying. It's a shame because I actually like Selina. But damn producers, save your money. 

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Oswald didn't kill anyone, so that's a plus. And no extraneous regulars. (Okay, there was a Selina cameo) I'm sorry that they can't find more for Montoya to do, but so far she's not vital.

 

So the mystery of the Waynes' murder deepens. It could be anybody related to Wayne Enterprises, it seems.

 

The villains and the super drug were creepy and worked well for this universe. Obviously, the Waynes couldn't control everything their subsidiaries did, but I hate to think that their company is as corrupt as the rest of Gotham. ('Cause Gotham sucks. We get it, show.)

 

Looks like Secret Weapon was using 21st century earbuds with her 1980s tape player.

 

Poor Gordon; so he's under two crime bosses now? Great.

 

The CGI when guitar guy was crushed by the ATM machine was just terrible.

 

Did they even need CGI for that? They could have gotten the point across about the brittle bones another way.

 

I can't get over how gorgeous this show is. I just like looking at it, the sets are fantastic.

 

They're doing a pretty good job with "disguising" NYC in the outside shots. I'm impressed.

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They may be making Bruce too smart for his age. Did I know anything about offshore corporations when I was in junior high?

 

I think thats a very good point, because I was watching the episode is some disbelief too.  I certainly wouldn't have even understood the concept of offshore accounts and gifting shares or hiding assets at his age.  I barely understand a lot of that stuff now.  And to somehow expect that a child has gotten all of that from reading company files designed to mostly hide those things seems odd.  Its not like a 9 year old Bruce Wayne took a corporate finance class and then applied all of his learning to the files.  Its somehow that he read all of these complex files and magically understood them.  I don't think its that he isn't driven, I just think it seems unlikely for him to, after even a few days of just looking at files to know the names for these financial instruments and strategies.  I think at best, a person without training, at his age, even if they were super duper smart and able to put it all together may be able to tell that something was up, but I don't know that you could tell much more beyond that.  Even with a smart 9 year old I think its a bit much.

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I think Bruce is older than 9--he's 12 or 13, right? And don't underestimate the advantage of growing up in a multibillionaire household--he probably knows a lot more about high level finance than most adults between his parents preparing him to take over the company, and the types of things they would want to make sure he was growing up understanding. Just as I'm sure the children of world leaders know a lot more about politics than the average kid. Or a plumber's kid knows more about pipes than most kids. And so on. I know I knew a lot about commercial construction as a kid just because my dad talked about his work and took me with him sometimes. Kids absorb what's around them.

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Not my favourite but I did like the whole Viper/Venom drug and the effects were pretty devastating enough to watch on screen.

Stan made for an interesting enough, though too quickly dealt with villain.

Bullock was probably his least horrible in this episode too but Essen needs a bit more development character wise.

Loved the scenes with Gordon, Oswald and Maroni in this episode as well. Oswald just about managed to survive getting killed by another mobster once again.

Fish sleeping with Nikolai continues to show that she seems to have many Plan Bs to get rid of Falcone. I almost feel a bit bad for him. He's obviously going to fall hard for the newly revamped Liza as well, isn't he?

Loving that Alfred is now on board with Bruce's detective work.

Nice brief scenes with Edward and Selina too this week, 7/10

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I got the feeling that Fish is grooming Secret Weapon to get close to Bruce (wanting her to say  "I love you baby" in a maternal way, practicing looking disappointed, etc.) unless....Fish thinks Falcone is into some sexual role-playing stuff.

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Dows anybody know the name of the aria Liza was learning/singing?

 

I'm certain I know the name, but for the life of me I can't spit it out.

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The best scene in this episode was the tense table scene with Maroni, Gordon and Oswald.  You can tell that Gordon is on a knife's edge and that if he says the wrong thing, he's dead.  It was a great scene.  Oswald is intriguing in how he flips from psycho killer to vulnerable toady in the blink of an eye.  Now that Maroni knows the truth, he will keep Oswald safe and hidden from Falcone so that he can milk him for information, which in turn will protect Gordon from Falcone finding out that he didn't kill Oswald.

 

I haven't been sure if Oswald is playing Gordon or if he views Gordon as a 'friend' (in his own sick way) because Gordon didn't kill him.  Now I'm leaning toward Oswald having a soft spot for Gordon (kinda like the way Hannibal Lecter had a soft spot for Clarisse).  As Oswald ascends to power in Gotham - which seems likely, I think he will knock off Maroni and take over his organization.  Then Oswald will protect Gordon from Falcone, while trying to corrupt him, and will be one of the reasons that Gordon survives for so many years in such a corrupt city.

 

I also liked the scene where Gordon and Bullock are getting lunch on the street and then Bullock's exasperated reaction when Gordon races to the scene of the crime (like a Pavlovian dog when the bell rings).  At some point in the series (assuming it lasts more than one season), I'd bet the two of them are going to face the dilemma of having to kill the other.

 

Finally, I liked all of the scenes with Bruce and Alfred.  Their relationship is one of the best things about this show.

 

I was trying to convince a friend to watch Gotham, but she was not interested because she said "it's too depressing, we already know that nothing changes, the city is corrupt and stays corrupt, no one wins."  But to me, even though the show is called "Gotham", it's not really a story about the city or the city's failure to change from corrupt to decent.  The show is primarily about one man's journey to remain good in a corrupt environment - it's James Gordon's personal triumph that he remains a decent human being all the way up to when Bruce Wayne reaches adulthood and becomes Batman.  The show is secondarily about the rise and fall of various villains, and the prequel story for Bruce Wayne.

 

P.S.  The aria is "O mio babbino caro" from the opera Gianni Schicci by Puccini.  The aria is sung by a girl pleading with her father to help out her boyfriend, whose family was left out of an old man's will.

Edited by tv echo
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The Law & Order Super Fan in me was geeking out at all the Repeat Offenders in this ep. David Zayas (Maroni), Jeremy Davidson (Nikolai), Danny Mastrogiorgio (Frankie, Maroni's right-hand man), Daniel London (Potolsky). And of course, John Doman (Falcone), who's been on pretty much every L&O series.

 

But I digress.

 

This was the first episode since the pilot that I outright enjoyed. I'm intrigued by Fish Mooney's plotting against Falcone. And Bruce's sleuthing is more on point than the GCPD!

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I think Bruce is older than 9--he's 12 or 13, right? And don't underestimate the advantage of growing up in a multibillionaire household--he probably knows a lot more about high level finance than most adults between his parents preparing him to take over the company, and the types of things they would want to make sure he was growing up understanding. Just as I'm sure the children of world leaders know a lot more about politics than the average kid. Or a plumber's kid knows more about pipes than most kids. And so on. I know I knew a lot about commercial construction as a kid just because my dad talked about his work and took me with him sometimes. Kids absorb what's around them.

 

I would buy that maybe he would understand the broad strokes of corporate finance, and probably a certain amount of the base business.  But many people who start large companies barely understand the complexities of the financial structure themselves.  The corporate structure they operate under generally created by those in finance or with a background in law (many times....both).  Unless the company was a financial services company, the base business would be something else entirely.  High level finance is very specialized field, often separate from the base business.  Example, Apple is a tech company, and also a multi billion dollar company.  So I would expect that Steve Jobs understood technology, but maybe not complex finance or the web of intricacies involving the legal structure of a company and what it all means.  I would expect that there is a legal team and a finance team for all of that.  Telecom companies have complex financial/legal structures, and so many of those in charge don't have all the answers which is why they defer to different officers or departments.  

 

 

The point being, I don't think understanding off shore accounts, what exactly a board of directors should and shouldn't know versus what an officer should know, and how exactly Maroney and Falcone got their positions of stock in Wayne Enterprises is the same as a plumbers kid knowing how to snake a toilet or a politicians child knowing the time frame that politicians have to campaign in a mid term election year.  I think it would be difficult to wrap a 12 year old mind around that just by listening in at the breakfast table.  But even if you were to accept that he understood all of those things, which I think is pretty far fetched, even for a very bright child, even if you accepted that premise you would have to further accept that he figured all of these things out by reading documents very likely designed to  hide all of these things, to the point where it was hidden from his own parents.  Boxes and boxes of these documents, each one playing a shell game written in confusing, obfuscating language.  Whomever was responsible for giving Maroney and Falcone their shares would clearly want it hidden from the world, so sussing that out would have probably been a huge task for an experienced forensic analyst, but a 12 year old kid has figured it out in a few days because he listened to mom and dad talk about the company at the dinner table?  I don't know, it doesn't seem likely.

The Law & Order Super Fan in me was geeking out at all the Repeat Offenders in this ep. David Zayas (Maroni), Jeremy Davidson (Nikolai), 

 

He was also in Army Wives (yes, I can admit I watched it!)  and I've been in lust with him ever since.

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They're pushing that the Waynes weren't exactly the pillars of society.  I don't think they'll be evil, they'll be people who compromised quite a bit.  They knew what was going on, but allowed it to continue because there's some sort of balance to maintain.  This could also explain why Bruce in this incarnation won't really compromise or kill anyone.

 

Oswald and Gordon continue to be awesome.

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It always annoys me when TV shows do the "new drug hitting the streets" storyline because they always assume that the mere availability of the drug will cause massive groups of people to take it and spark an epidemic of overdoses and side effects. People on the streets may have made bad decisions, but they aren't total idiots. It all started with apparently the world's dumbest guitar player who has a complete stranger drop a mysterious vial in his case and he decides to just inhale it because...hey it's there? There isn't even any indication that he's a druggie. Then Stan just has to hand out free samples on the street and soon enough even the prostitutes are tripping. People on the streets don't survive by being that dumb.

 

With that aside, I did enjoy the scene in Maroni's restaurant and pretty much everything to do with Fish Mooney. I want to see David Zayas and Jada Pinkett Smith in a scene together. They seem like they would be tremendous fun.

 

Falcone may have fallen directly into Fish Mooney's trap, and his casino may have been hit by Maroni. But I don't think he'll go down that easily. He said that he and the Waynes had an understanding, and I'm thinking he may be able to bring some corporate firepower to bear in this war.

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I'm not sure of how well the show is working overall, but any scene with Harvey and Jim is pretty damn dependable, from burgers to altruism to Harvey very fumblingly trying to give Jim dating advice.

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Yes indeed. Bullock's "What's altruism?" followed by Gordon's reaction shot was one of the best yet. 

 

Falcone may have fallen directly into Fish Mooney's trap, and his casino may have been hit by Maroni. But I don't think he'll go down that easily. He said that he and the Waynes had an understanding, and I'm thinking he may be able to bring some corporate firepower to bear in this war.

 

 

I'm rooting for him just because he's played by John Doman. He also seems more rational than Maroni. Having Falcone take out Maroni would be one way for Oswald Copperpot to advance down the path to being The Penguin. 

 

My favorite line from the recap was "Molly 'Middle Management My Ass' Mathis," Molly Mathis being the woman who talked to Bruce at the Wayne Foundation charity function and then later showed up at the warehouse Gordon was sent to. There's nothing middle management about her. 

 

Yay, Margaret Colin! I remember her very fondly from Now and Again, and of course as Blair Waldorf's mother Eleanor in Gossip Girl

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I got the feeling that Fish is grooming Secret Weapon to get close to Bruce (wanting her to say  "I love you baby" in a maternal way, practicing looking disappointed, etc.) unless....Fish thinks Falcone is into some sexual role-playing stuff.

No that was meant specifically for Falcone.  Fish baited the honey trap with someone who reminded Falcone of his mother and Falcone fell for it.  Gross.

 

People on the streets may have made bad decisions, but they aren't total idiots. It all started with apparently the world's dumbest guitar player who has a complete stranger drop a mysterious vial in his case and he decides to just inhale it because...hey it's there? There isn't even any indication that he's a druggie.

Actually, there was.  The guitar player had a sign that read "I'm not going to lie.  I'm going to buy drugs."

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I must be a little dense.  What was the point of getting the drug on the street?  Just to create hysteria?  He clearly wasn't going to make money off of it since people died.  Then I get that he just wanted to kill everyone in Wayne Enterprises.  Aren't there easier ways to kill people?  Why put the drug on the street?  He could have just skipped the street distribution part and went right to gassing the unsuspecting Wayne people and he would have succeeded.

 

Liked everything about this episode except the continual adventures of the precocious Bruce Wayne.  Just don't like this kid.  Actor is terrible, he has a very wooden delivery.  If that's how it's supposed to be written, it doesn't work for me.

 

I swear I thought that was Gordon tied up with Fish.
Me too.  I was very surprised and confused at first.

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Jada Pinkett Smith finally might have met someone who can match her scenery chewing.  Jeremy Davidson was so over-the-top as Nikko.  I suspect that a lot of it had to do with that accent.

 

 

What's funny is I had just watched a Law & Order episode featuring Jeremy Davidson as an Italian mob scion. So, seeing him here as a Russian mobster with a thick Russian accent made me do a double take.

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I must be a little dense.  What was the point of getting the drug on the street?  Just to create hysteria?  He clearly wasn't going to make money off of it since people died.  Then I get that he just wanted to kill everyone in Wayne Enterprises.  Aren't there easier ways to kill people?  Why put the drug on the street?  He could have just skipped the street distribution part and went right to gassing the unsuspecting Wayne people and he would have succeeded.

He was trying, in his own obviously insane way, to make the public realize that Wayne Enterprises isn't the clean and upstanding company that everybody thought it was. The guy was obviously nuts though, he didn't need to kill a few dozen people with essentially poison to pull that off.

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Falcone actually believing that a young hot woman would so willingly engage him is pretty crazy IMO. You don't become a boss by being so gullible. That woman was as obvious as obvious could be. Obvious stroll, obvious sexiness, obvious musical selection... sheesh.

 

And what's to stop her from aligning with the top dog (Falcone) vs his subordinate? 

Edited by Bandolero

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Aand, I'm out. I realized I was forcing myself to watch this. It's a great premise, but it's just so dang dark, and not in a Battlestar Galactica make you contemplate life kind of way. The characters are just too dark and unlikable for me. I know I'm supposed to root for Bruce and Gordon, but I just don't *care. * As much as I love Ben McKenzie and have loved him in both OC and Southland, I just don't think I can stay on this ride. It has a great look, premise, music, etc., but I just can't get on board with it. I know he's supposed to be cleaning up a dirty, corrupt city, but it's just so dour. I don't buy any of it. I think I'm done. Sorry, Ben. I'll catch you in your next project. I don't think this one is going to last too long.

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I started watching tonight and the first thing I thought was “Gotham sure wouldn't be complete without an appearance by The Incredible Hulk!” A Hulk who apparently didn't get enough...ahem...attention from his mother as a baby, if you know what I mean...

At least Gordon and Bullock react with the right level of “what in the world are we dealing with?”...this show is cheesy and they're not afraid to admit it, I love it.

Really dug Bullock here and how much of a tough wisecracker he is. He was on fire tonight. Only thing I didn't particularly enjoy was him being the target of the villain's wrath...they seem to go to this well quite a bit. Maybe it'll be a bit of characterization for him, in that he talks tough but isn't, although I'm not sure what to think of that...would seem a bit “predictable” wouldn't it?

Loved Mackenzie Leigh- or “Lizzie”- in this. She seems so sweet and precious, perfect for someone who's a hidden threat. Of course, watching it, and seeing how much of a gentleman Carmine Falcone is and I hope- though I know it'll be faint- that Lizzie doesn't double-cross Falcone and they cross Fish together instead.

Having said that...in the ultimate struggle of Falcone vs. Maroni, I think Falcone would win. He just seems more composed, more in control. Maroni...seems like he's too much on edge and is easily swayed...Oswald Cobblepot played him like a violin and Maroni never noticed...but I guess we'll see.

Overall...pretty good tonight.

Edited by Danielg342
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The best part for me was "I wandered onto the set by accident". --Hee

 

That was pretty funny. Telling of the episode too- other than Fish and Lizzie, the women of the show just weren't there tonight, either absent (Kean, Montoya) or having a token appearance (Kyle, Essen).

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