S04.E04: Chapter Four: Dear Billy

[Scout Finch]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

My impression is that's what Nancy picked out for her. It didn't work for me either - but then Nancy isn't too fond of Robin. Still, I agree, it wasn't professional looking (and was the worse combo of 80's clothes I may have ever seen)

Yes, it came from Nancy's closet.

[Ellaria]

Hope that they get the band back together soon. The strength of this show is having this great group of quirky characters fighting evil side-by-side. So far, the story is getting too big, with too many characters, trying to do too much.

However, I still love the “kids.” The years haven’t dulled their bonds of friendship.

I’m not enjoying the Hopper storyline. Now Joyce and Murray are also captive…meh. I’m not watching this show to see some sort of Cold War prison camp escape drama.

The “jocks out for revenge” could get old quickly but we’ve seen that one of them had a nosebleed and…well, that’s not good. Hopefully, they stop looking for Eddie and join with the forces to fight evil.

Of course, even Dead Billy is a jerk.

And Dustin and Steve are still the best!

[secnarf]

Wow, so many thoughts after this episode.

First - at the end of last episode, I was worried about Max, so I scanned the thumbnails for episodes 4-8 and Max was in one of the later images. So, I knew she didn't die (at least not in this episode). I did enjoy that it's music that brings people back. But as we learned, not just music, but love/friendship. It reminded me strongly of the yellow crayon scene in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Sadie Sink is doing an incredible job. She absolutely broke my heart in the scene at the cemetery, reading Billy that letter (as well as her stellar performance in the rest of the episode).

I was super disappointed that Yuri flipped on them, but mostly because I just want Hopper back with the group and for the story in the Russian prison to be over with. As much as I really hoped that his escape would work out, I was suspicious immediately of the coffee. This is the problem when the middle man is the one getting the money directly.

If nothing else, this episode made it a lot easier for me to believe that not only is Will gay, but he is in love with Mike. Glad that Mike is being nicer to him, though.

As I am typing this I have the news on, and I glanced up at the screen and saw the face of the Vecna (not really - shadows and reflections in a glass display case that my brain decided look like Vecna). This bodes well for me sleeping tonight.

[Capricasix]

55 minutes ago, secnarf said:

As I am typing this I have the news on, and I glanced up at the screen and saw the face of the Vecna (not really - shadows and reflections in a glass display case that my brain decided look like Vecna). This bodes well for me sleeping tonight.

I can’t watch the show at night before bed. I made the mistake of doing that on Saturday and had nightmares that night - my husband had to shake me awake because I was trying to scream in my sleep 😳

[tennisgurl]

That certainly got intense, I knew intellectually that Max would probably be alright, but I really felt scared when she was being dragged into the dark world with the Vecna, thank God for the power of magic and friendship! This show always nails its musical choices, Running Up that Hill was an inspired choice for Max to literally and metaphorically run up her hill to deal with her trauma and escape. Max's story has been rough but its really given Sadie Sink time to shine. Her speech to Billy's grave was excellent, her complicated grief for her step-brother really came through, its almost more like she is mourning what could have been more than Billy himself. It can be really hard to mourn someone you had complicated feelings about, maybe even harder than someone who you were really close with. Those flashbacks to the good times with her friends also made me sad all over again that El is separated from the rest of the gang, she looked so happy hanging out with Max, now she looks miserable in every single scene. 

I know that this show separating its cast into different groups then coming together at the end is a staple of the show, but Hopper in Russia is such a drag on the show. I know that the adults will eventually come together with the kids/teens, but they seem so separate from the much more interesting stories with Venca and whatever is happening with El's powers. It seems like a pretty obvious excuse to get all of the adults in the know out of commission so that the kids can save the day. At least Joyce and Murray add some much needed levity with their odd couple act. At least the California plot is picking up, I was really not expecting them to get into a firefight out of nowhere, good thing that the unnamed agent managed to get everyone out, I am really glad that they brought him along, it looked like he was trying to get them to leave him behind.

Steve might get annoyed at always getting stuck on babysitting duty, but I don't blame everyone for putting him in charge, half the reason the kids are even alive now is because Steve is the best babysitter you could ever ask for. Keeping the kids from running off and getting into trouble is like herding cats, its impressive he has done so well. "I could have killed you with this lamp!"

 Robert Englund is a big get, I had no idea he would be showing up this season! His big scene and the flashbacks were seriously creepy, they are really bringing the horror this season. Every season of this show clearly takes inspiration from famous movies and shows of the 80s, and it looks like we are doing Nightmare on Elm Street this season, complete with Freddy himself. 

I continue to like Nancy and Robin, investigative academics. Robin is really taking to this well, Nancy looked impressed with her big summer camp speech, she might even start to warm to her now. I do wonder about Nancy's apparent dislike of Robin, is it just because she rubs her the wrong way, or does she have some lingering feelings for Steve and thinks that they're together? I hope they don't go there, Steve and Nancy tried to make things work and it just didn't. I feel like Steve would always feel like he was second choice if they got back together, especially soon after Nancy and Jonathan broke up. 

[Taryn74]

39 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Her speech to Billy's grave was excellent, her complicated grief for her step-brother really came through, its almost more like she is mourning what could have been more than Billy himself. It can be really hard to mourn someone you had complicated feelings about, maybe even harder than someone who you were really close with.

Excellent observation. I've personally known people who were hit really hard by losing a sibling they had a difficult relationship with, because on top of losing a sibling, they had to deal with the fact that the possibility of ever having a good relationship with them was now over.

I am really, really ready for things to start coming together more this season. It's dragging, badly, and that upsets me. The only scenes I really care about right now are the ones with the Hawkins crew and that's mostly for Steve (which is incredible because I really hated him in Season 1). He continues to have the best chemistry with everyone on the show. But mostly I'm ready to see wtf this Vecna creature has to do with ANYTHING we've seen up to this point.

STEVE: He just pops out in the fifties, kills one family, and is like "Pfft, hey, I'm good." 

LOL. Exactly.

[silverstream]

2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

mostly for Steve (which is incredible because I really hated him in Season 1). He continues to have the best chemistry with everyone on the show.

I had a similar reaction - I disliked Steve in season 1, but at this point I'd be happy to watch a Steve-and-Robin spinoff. It doesn't even have to have monsters in it, just them hanging out together and having everyday adventures; the other characters can guest star from time to time. They could maybe open a business together after Robin's finished with school (detective/babysitting/bodyguard/ice-cream parlour combo) leading to loads of wacky subplots, Steve can go on increasingly disastrous dates and to contrast that there'd be a Robin/Vicky slowburn romance. I'd totally watch that!

[festivus]

Yeah, I'm glad they took Steve in the good guy direction. The actor is just too cute with his line deliveries. 

[Ilovepie]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:30 AM, krankydoodle said:

I don't buy that the famously paranoid Murray would ingest anything offered by Yuri, but I admit I've been a bit bored by the Russia storyline so wasn't paying close attention to those scenes.

I enjoyed the Silence of the Lambs vibes at the asylum and the makeup on Robert Englund was surprisingly disturbing. They're really amping up the horrific imagery this season.

We are on the same page @krankydoodle - when the girls walked into that jail I said to my husband in my best Hannibal Lecter voice "Hello Clarice" ;-p Robin and Nancy are the second best dynamic duo after Dustin/Steve. When Nancy said "I think we can out run them" and the inmates were commenting as they took off I laughed. "You dropped your shoe!"

And my first thought when Yuri offered coffee was "don't drink anything from him!" I am seriously already over this story line. I really just wish that Yuri had taken the money and picked Hopper up and then the three of them were off to Hawkins together. I'm over this Russian plot. I did laugh when Murray chastised Joyce with "Joyce, there are some things you can be late for, like a dentist appointment. But for what is essentially a hostage exchange I think you need to be on time!

[CarpeFelis]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:04 PM, bettername2come said:

I love that Erica charges interest on hush money. I wanted her to slam the door on the basketball captain's fingers.

God, yes. That or yell for her mom or dad to come to the door. That guy was being aggressively creepy repeatedly sticking his foot in the door.

I love everything about Erica’s personality. This girl is a wiseass and a badass who takes crap from no one. If there’s a spinoff I hope she’s a major character. She’s my next favorite after Steve.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:04 PM, bettername2come said:

"Holy shit, there's a little ballerina in here." "She's giving you an academic scholar vibe?" Hee. 

I didn't quite understand why Robin was rifling through Nancy's stuff and making comments? Is she just hyper and fidgety or was there a point to that?

On 5/28/2022 at 12:59 PM, TiredMe said:

When Max was running I yelled, weave and bob Max, have you not seen Game of Thrones? Lol sorry if you don’t get the reference. 

YES!!!!!

On 5/29/2022 at 2:19 PM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

IMO, they are doing a great job with the Max storyline. The notion that she blames herself makes a lot of sense to me, as is the idea that blaming herself makes her susceptible to Vecna's curse. Except for Chrissy, all of Vecna's victims seem to be dealing not only with trauma but the idea that they are to blame for whatever happened to them. (And maybe Chrissy felt that way, too, since it seems like a part of her trauma is connected to an eating disorder and those disorders are often connected to needing a sense of control). 

Sadie Sink as Max is fantastic.

On 5/30/2022 at 5:51 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

I’m not enjoying the Hopper storyline. Now Joyce and Murray are also captive…meh. I’m not watching this show to see some sort of Cold War prison camp escape drama.

GET HOPPER OUT OF FUCKING SIBERIA! God, I am SO SICK of this storyline. I very nearly ff-ed through his scenes this episode. He gets out, he's on the snowmobile, I'm thinking "yay, he's out and finally this dollar store North of the Wall storyline is concluded"--nope. I can't stand one of my favorite characters stuck in this boring snowy morass.

[Kel Varnsen]

Holy shit that was an episode. It was awesome how they gave Max so much of it to carry and Sadie Sink completely crushed it. For a second I was worried that it would either end on a cliff hanger not knowing if she made it out or after she did they would end on what was happening with Hopper or Joyce or something.

One thing I really liked how at the beginning Max told her friends exactly what she saw right away. No bullshit keeping it to herself until it was too late like you would see in a lot of other shows.

I don't mind the Hopper in Russia story but I thought his escape could have been way better. The whole getting away through the snow without any shoes (with two broken ankles) seems harder to accept than the upside down for some reason. Although my pure speculation is that when it comes time to save him El will do what she was designed to and kill Russians from very far away.

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

didn't quite understand why Robin was rifling through Nancy's stuff and making comments? Is she just hyper and fidgety or was there a point to that?

We know that Robin and Steve talk alot, so I bet Robin has heard all about her. So seeing what she is actually like and being in her room would be an interesting experience for her. 

Steve with the kids is always good. I like that Dustin always gets shotgun in his car. 

Also I find it kind of funny that Lucas's between seasons storyline was basically the storyline that Bill would have gotten if there had been a second season of Freaks and Geeks.

[CeeBeeGee]

Oh, also meant to say that Max's being de-possessed through memories of the love of her friends is totally the climax of Harry Potter and the order of the Phoenix.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

 Also I find it kind of funny that Lucas's between seasons storyline was basically the storyline that Bill would have gotten if there had been a second season of Freaks and Geeks.

There should have been a second season - that was a great show, and so many of them went on to major careers.

[MaggieG]

18 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

We are on the same page @krankydoodle - when the girls walked into that jail I said to my husband in my best Hannibal Lecter voice "Hello Clarice" ;-p Robin and Nancy are the second best dynamic duo after Dustin/Steve. When Nancy said "I think we can out run them" and the inmates were commenting as they took off I laughed. "You dropped your shoe!"

And my first thought when Yuri offered coffee was "don't drink anything from him!" I am seriously already over this story line. I really just wish that Yuri had taken the money and picked Hopper up and then the three of them were off to Hawkins together. I'm over this Russian plot. I did laugh when Murray chastised Joyce with "Joyce, there are some things you can be late for, like a dentist appointment. But for what is essentially a hostage exchange I think you need to be on time!

That made me laugh too. I also cracked up at them arriving in Alaska in a snow storm and Murray exclaiming "This is spring?!"

[Cranberry]

14 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I didn't quite understand why Robin was rifling through Nancy's stuff and making comments? Is she just hyper and fidgety or was there a point to that?

I've seen a number of Tumblr posts pointing out that Robin has been very autistic-coded this season. Her, "I don't really have a filter or a strong grasp of social cues" speech, the discomfort with the way Nancy's clothes felt on her, and "It took me six months longer to learn to walk than all the other babies" (common with autistic children) are all things that autistic fans picked up on right away. 

[janie jones]

18 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I didn't quite understand why Robin was rifling through Nancy's stuff and making comments? Is she just hyper and fidgety or was there a point to that?

In season 3 when Robin and Steve were talking about Nancy, she called her a "priss," and I took her reaction to Nancy's room as like, "OMG, her room is exactly how you think it'd be, even down to the ballerina music box."

I'm also bored with Hopper in Russia, not to mention I couldn't even look at his injured foot.

I have always hated "Running up that Hill."

[Steph Sometimes]

Now granted it's been years since I watched last season (I should've done a rewatch), but I don't remember Robin being so fidgety last season.

Did they explain where Joyce and Murray got the ransom money?

[Taryn74]

Just now, Steph Sometimes said:

Now granted it's been years since I watched last season (I should've done a rewatch), but I don't remember Robin being so fidgety last season.

I commented on that to hubby tonight. She was "odd" last season, as in just obviously not being part of a popular crowd and not caring, LOL, but they had her acting almost manic this season. It was strange.

1 minute ago, Steph Sometimes said:

Did they explain where Joyce and Murray got the ransom money?

I think they made reference to it coming from the trust fund Hopper had set up for El. I think it was pretty heavily implied last season that the government gave Hopper a hefty settlement so he would have the means to relocate El and she would be taken care of.

[methodwriter85]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:03 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

Nothing wrong with that. Only thing wrong is the war on drugs.

The problem is that his penchant for sniffle snacks (I'm not even going to use alleged because that's what he was arrested for) is likely a big part into why he looks like he's pushing 40 when he's only pushing 30. He's actually two years YOUNGER than Joe Keery. The show does seem to realize this which is why Jonathan is a stoner and there's absolutely no mention of Jonathan's previous plan to go to NYU. (Which wouldn't have been an unreasonable train ride to Boston on weekends.) I also wonder if that's a big part of why they don't even really use his character anymore.

On 5/30/2022 at 2:18 PM, Clanstarling said:

My impression is that's what Nancy picked out for her. It didn't work for me either - but then Nancy isn't too fond of Robin. Still, I agree, it wasn't professional looking (and was the worse combo of 80's clothes I may have ever seen)

There's no real way to put this sensitively but when Robin said that she was wearing one of Nancy's bras and it was hurting her, I was like, "Well, duh, a 32a is NOT going to fit well on her!"

I did love the ode to Nightmare on Elmstreet. I'm going to take the piecing together of the house as a nod to the 1987 opening of Dream Warriors when Kristen makes a paper mache copy of the house. Still surprised they haven't been able to get it together and make a new reboot after the failed 2010 one. Kevin Bacon would be great, I think.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

There's no real way to put this sensitively but when Robin said that she was wearing one of Nancy's bras and it was hurting her, I was like, "Well, duh, a 32a is NOT going to fit well on her!"

Which begs the question, why did she have to change bras? (assuming she wore one)

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Which begs the question, why did she have to change bras? (assuming she wore one)

Yeah, I wondered that too. I know Robin usually wore somewhat baggy clothing, but tbh it's still easy to tell when a girl isn't wearing a bra. There was no reason Robin should have had to borrow one of Nancy's.

Nancy should have gone and raided her mom's closet. That would have been more appropriate.

[Athena]

At the halfway mark, here is what I think are the best things so far stuff: Sadie Sink and the Max storyline. She was great last season and now she's doing the hefty lifting here. I've always liked "Running up that Hill" so it was cathartic to see it used for her breaking from trauma storyline.

Like others, I still love Steve. The actor has chemistry with everyone. I am glad the Robin/Steve friendship is as strong as ever. I still like Dustin and Steve as well. I am liking the new addition of Argyle and Eddie as well.

The Bad: I fast forward through the jock storyline. Total waste of time. I also zone out during the Hopper storyline. I like all the actors and characters, but whenever they separate them from the main plot, it feels disjointed especially when they are in another country.

[Anela]

Jesus, that scene with the boys, at Joyce's home. I've been feeling anxious today, so I sat down with my "CALM" drink, just as that played out. 

The Russian storyline is just annoying. Hopper is about to be rescued, but of course all three are now in danger. Just let them go home! 

Aw! I really love that the friendships are just as important as any romantic relationships! 

I wish I was like my friends, who could watch it all in one sitting. I feel antsy, and need to do something else. I was getting distracted, including when Max was attacked by the Vecna. 

On 5/29/2022 at 8:17 PM, Armchair Critic said:

Sam from Ozark! He has such a sweet face it was good casting for him to be young Victor Kreel to make him sympathetic.

I was trying to figure out where I knew him from. 

[Anela]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:29 PM, Taryn74 said:

Excellent observation. I've personally known people who were hit really hard by losing a sibling they had a difficult relationship with, because on top of losing a sibling, they had to deal with the fact that the possibility of ever having a good relationship with them was now over.

Yep. I've experienced this, although my sister is still alive. When she moved to Canada, I was relieved for certain reasons, but also really upset, because that was it. No chance that things would change. Same thing when my mother died, too. 

[Sarah 103]

17 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

The problem is that his penchant for sniffle snacks (I'm not even going to use alleged because that's what he was arrested for) is likely a big part into why he looks like he's pushing 40 when he's only pushing 30. He's actually two years YOUNGER than Joe Keery. The show does seem to realize this which is why Jonathan is a stoner and there's absolutely no mention of Jonathan's previous plan to go to NYU.

NYU has always been an expensive school, and I don't know how much money they can spend on Jonathan's college tution. NYU to me was always more of a fantasy/dream than an actual real plan for Jonathan.  

8 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Nancy should have gone and raided her mom's closet. That would have been more appropriate.

They didn't even have to raid her mother's closet. Nancy has plenty of outfits that she wore to her newspaper internship last year that would have worked. They'd have to cut the line about Easter Sunday Brunch, but they could still keep all the other comments about how uncomfortable the clothes are. 

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

They didn't even have to raid her mother's closet. Nancy has plenty of outfits that she wore to her newspaper internship last year that would have worked.

Well really I was thinking more about the size of the clothing, LOL. Nancy has a very petite build and seems to be at least a few inches shorter than Robin. I think her mom's clothes probably would have fit Robin better.

[Mediocre Gatsby]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:29 AM, Taryn74 said:

The only scenes I really care about right now are the ones with the Hawkins crew and that's mostly for Steve (which is incredible because I really hated him in Season 1). He continues to have the best chemistry with everyone on the show.

Me too! He's one of the few "older" characters I still like. And he doesn't look as old as Nancy and Jonathan; their faces keep taking me out of the story line. 

On 5/31/2022 at 1:22 PM, Ilovepie said:

And my first thought when Yuri offered coffee was "don't drink anything from him!"

Right? He was obviously counting that money just waiting for them to be affected by the coffee. So frustrating to watch. 

On 5/31/2022 at 6:06 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

Sadie Sink as Max is fantastic.

I really like the actress, and it's nice to see someone who still looks high-school age (though she's not) but I wasn't really affected by the Billy's headstone scene. She had one tear at the end, but otherwise she was just wiping away nothing -- no tears. I would rather have seen her just say her lines without the fake swiping. 

Still I'm glad her character survived. 

[Haleth]

I didn't know that was Robert Englund until the credits, but I did find it funny that young Victor was Sam from Ozark.  Loved Nancy and Robin teaming up.  It's nice to see two smart young women working together on tv.

No surprise that Yuri double crossed everyone but I was assuming Jaqen Antonov will play a bigger role in rescuing Hopper (and now himself).  He is too recognizable an actor to have such a small role.

Sadie Sink really impressed me with her acting in this epi.  She hit all the notes perfectly and is leaps and bounds better than most of the kids on this show.

In real life that is a hell of a long drive from southern CA to IN.  Ah, the magic of television!  I'm guessing everyone makes it to Hawkins in the next episode.

On 5/31/2022 at 3:46 PM, festivus said:

Yeah, I'm glad they took Steve in the good guy direction. The actor is just too cute with his line deliveries. 

I wonder how that happened.  Steve was such a jerk in the first season, at least at the start.  Did TPTB see that the actor was just that good that they decided to rewrite him as more of a hapless, comical character?  It's so far from the hunky, arrogant guy he started out being.  Good for him if that's the case.  He works so well with all the younger cast and turned himself into a fan favorite.

[QuantumMechanic]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I wonder how that happened.  Steve was such a jerk in the first season, at least at the start.  Did TPTB see that the actor was just that good that they decided to rewrite him as more of a hapless, comical character?  It's so far from the hunky, arrogant guy he started out being.  Good for him if that's the case.  He works so well with all the younger cast and turned himself into a fan favorite.

They were actually going to kill Steve off in Season 1.  But the writers fell in love with Joe Keery and decided to not only not kill him but also have him do a heel-face turn.

[Capricasix]

My husband, who is very bad at recognizing actors’ faces, was watching an ep and he said to me, “I don’t think it’s him but he looks like the guy from Free Guy” and I said, “um yeah, that’s Joe Keery, and yes he was in Free Guy 🤦🏽‍♀️😄” And then I had to explain the connection between Joe Keery and Shawn Levy 😄

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, QuantumMechanic said:

They were actually going to kill Steve off in Season 1.  But the writers fell in love with Joe Keery and decided to not only not kill him but also have him do a heel-face turn.

As I dimly recall, he started changing when he was helping Dustin (and I don't recall how that came to be).

[Kel Varnsen]

37 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

As I dimly recall, he started changing when he was helping Dustin (and I don't recall how that came to be).

The first time I noticed that Steve was more than your typical 80's movie rich jerk boyfriend type was when he went to confront Nancy and Jonathan at Joyce's house when they were trying to catch the Demigorgon. He ended up being there when it showed up and instead of taking off and laughing, he grabbed a bat and started fighting.

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

As I dimly recall, he started changing when he was helping Dustin (and I don't recall how that came to be).

The change starts at the end of season 1 when going to apologize to Nancy and Jonathan turned into him helping them fight the Demigorgon. In season 2, he was going to apologize or talk to Nancy, but instead ran into Dustin who needed Steve's help. In that episode or another episode in season 2, Steve gives Dustin advice on how to style his hair and I think some age-appropiate dating/relationship advice. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Sarah 103

[janie jones]

On 6/5/2022 at 10:22 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

The first time I noticed that Steve was more than your typical 80's movie rich jerk boyfriend type was when he went to confront Nancy and Jonathan at Joyce's house when they were trying to catch the Demigorgon. He ended up being there when it showed up and instead of taking off and laughing, he grabbed a bat and started fighting.

Plus, although I don't think it's said directly, isn't it heavily implied that Steve is the one who got Jonathan the replacement camera in the Christmas scene at the end of season 1?

(The funny thing about the bat is that everyone thinks of it as Steve's bat, but Jonathan made it!)

[rina9294]

On 5/29/2022 at 3:33 PM, AimingforYoko said:

Yuri brought to mind that old Serenity quote, "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Sadie took her showcase ep and ran with it. And best use of Kate Bush since "This Woman's Work" from She's Having a Baby.

I have to say thank you, I thought I was the only person in the world who had seen She's Having a Baby!  Now I need to go rewatch it. On topic, such a great use of the song and Sadie!

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, janie jones said:

Plus, although I don't think it's said directly, isn't it heavily implied that Steve is the one who got Jonathan the replacement camera in the Christmas scene at the end of season 1?

That is correct.  

[CailynA]

Max's feelings about Billy actually make a little more sense after reading Runaway Max today. Sadie is killing it this season

[Tatum]

I was disappointed by Yuri's betrayal, although I don't understand how the guard was that trusting in the first place. For that matter, I can't believe Hopper trusted the guard. I did find it a bit Hollywood though that Yuri called the guard to give him a heads up over what he did. It's not like he gave him enough time to run, and if he hated him enough to enjoy taunting him, odd that Enzo would trust him in the first place. And if he didn't trust him, why exactly does he assume this guy is going to risk his life extracting a prisoner after he's been paid? Mostly, I just can't stand it when a show does something where characters go to great lengths all for naught. I don't want to watch any torture scenes either. Husband doesn't let me fast forward shows but if I was watching this alone I would have zipped through Hopper.

I was pretty sure Max was going to survive, if only because they need someone to come back with intel. I mean, it would be kind of frustrating if they got the idea that music could save her and then it didn't work. Max definitely got more time to fight back though than the other two, but at some point it kind of looked like the opening back to her dimension was closing. 

I wonder if we are going to find out any more of Chrissy or Eddie's backstories.  Max might ascertain that both she and Victor felt a lot of guilt, if Nancy and Robin think to explain the part where Victor said he felt responsible for the burning house during his time at war, but not sure that's going to be enough of a common denominator. Also, Victor said he felt his proximity to the house was what made him a target, but the others seemed to feel a lot of guilt and that is what attracted Vecna.

[Eliza422]

On 5/29/2022 at 3:39 PM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Anyway, as stated, the narrative doesn't really support the idea that she was pregnant. All evidence is that she had a controlling mother and an eating disorder. Believe me, young women vomit for all sorts of reasons other than pregnancy (including non-eating disorder reasons, too).

In real life, sure - but in tv / movies, 99% of the time vomit = pregnancy. That was my first thought, but then when they had the mother talking about her being fat, I was like, ah! Bulimia! 

[KarenX]

4 hours ago, Eliza422 said:

In real life, sure - but in tv / movies, 99% of the time vomit = pregnancy. That was my first thought, but then when they had the mother talking about her being fat, I was like, ah! Bulimia!

Adult women on TV and in movies, and maybe teenagers now but in the 1980s teens vomiting signaled bulimia. Back then, eating disorders on TV were as ubiquitous as quicksand was in the 1970s.

Edited June 8, 2022 by KarenX

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:02 AM, Capricasix said:

My husband, who is very bad at recognizing actors’ faces, was watching an ep and he said to me, “I don’t think it’s him but he looks like the guy from Free Guy” and I said, “um yeah, that’s Joe Keery, and yes he was in Free Guy 🤦🏽‍♀️😄” And then I had to explain the connection between Joe Keery and Shawn Levy 😄

What connection?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Shawn Levy is a Stranger Things director (he directed "Dear Billy," for instance) and producer, I believe. He also directed Free Guy. Likely his relationship with Joe Keery on ST was part of the reason Keery was in Free Guy.

Edited June 8, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Kate47]

I think the very first step in Steve's redemption was when he volunteered to help clean the graffiti off the marquee. Nobody around to impress, just a guy feeling like a shit for his actions and wanting to atone in some small way.

The portrayal of grief in this episode is very real, in that Max can be both missing Billy and also somewhat glad that he's gone (which is common with abuse and imperfect relationships). He was not a great dude, but he was her brother for who knows how long, and she'll never get a second chance at their relationship. The counselor may have been able to tell her that grief is complicated and thorny and tough to handle, but she had to learn how to let people in first. Bottling up all that pain and guilt and sorrow is never going to be the look.

Also, side note, Vecna reminds me of those people that have trouble remembering the names of new people they meet, so they insert the name into every sentence in order to train themselves into it. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Kate47

[Enero]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:53 PM, festivus said:

I love that music is the key to escaping Vecna.

I liked this too. But I’m guessing one can’t listen to music forever to keep him at bay. So I think Max will eventually have to make peace with what happened to Billy, her wishing him dead and her guilt over not being able to save him. I think that will stop Vecna completely from continuously coming after someone as it seems as if he preys on severe guilt over trauma. 

 

[Heathrowe]

Re: Steve. For anyone who was a Dawson's Creek fan...Pacey was supposed to be Dawson's horny sidekick and Josh Jackson basically made the writers love him and ended being elevated to leading man status. It seems like an organic thing that happens and makes shows better sometimes...I'm in the same camp as those upthread who can't believe how much they like Steve now, after hating him S1. But I think that's also a big 80's trope - the villain turning hero. So I guess it fits. 

This episode was pretty incredible but so scary/gory that the show is turning a bit like Game of Thrones for me. I will watch because I am very into the story and the characters, but I have to zone out/put a pillow over my face/go get a snack for half the scenes because I can't watch that much of Hopper being tortured or peoples limbs/eyes popping all over the place. I get that it is some people's favorite thing, but not mine! That said - the end when Max was running towards the light was so, so incredible. Are there Stranger Things graphic novels (there must be) because so many scenes this season have been just perfect for that format? And agree - Sadie Sink has been incredible this season.

In the same vein as Steve...I'm finding Murray very fun and appealing this season? He is kind of charming outside of his bunker. I loved his sweater look on the plane. Previously I found him kind of creepy but he and Joyce are a good team. As mentioned above, I can't watch Hopper be tortured anymore. I love him. He's one of my favorite characters. I'm not sure where the Russia storyline goes from here which is interesting for me, because I'm pretty good at story and it takes a lot to surprise me but I am not sure where this is going.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

So one thing that I haven't seen a lot of discussion of is that Victor says that it is music that brought him out of the trance and of course, we see Max is able to escape because Kate Bush opens a portal to the real world.

But Vecna/Henry says

Spoiler

In episode seven, wasn't the music that saved Victor, it was just he didn't know his own power, and he went into a coma after killing his mother and sister because of the power he expended.

So which is it? Or was Vecna just unaware of this vulnerability to his powers until Max?

[truthaboutluv]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:55 PM, Harvey said:

I have to say, the critics were right. The Hopper storyline really is the weakest and least interesting part of the season.

No lie, I let out an audible groan when Yuri's double crossing was revealed and I realized this Russia kidnapping storyline was going to drag out some more. I have to say though, when Yuri offered Joyce and Murray coffee, my suspicions went up and I thought it'd be crazy for them to drink anything from some guy they didn't really know, while on some dangerous, rescue mission. It was especially surprising from a paranoid, conspiracy theorist like Murray. But you know, television contrivances and all. 

Max's battle with Vecna was mostly interesting, except the end where I knew there was no way she was dying, at least not that early in the season (I imagine if the writers want a shocking main character death, they'd do it at the mid-season finale). And so the stakes weren't as high or intense for me. I far more enjoyed her emotional struggle leading up to the moment at the grave, where she was dealing with the scary reality that she was likely going to die. 

It was great to see Lucas back with the gang. I did laugh at Dustin's, "yeah okay, whatever" reaction to Lucas' saying the basketball douchebags were looking for him. Because as Dustin rightly pointed out, "yeah there's kind of bigger shit to worry about right now." It was also nice that Mike and Will addressed some of their issues and had a nice resolution. 

While I'm obviously glad they weren't killed, I'm kind of side-eying Mike, Will and Jonathan all survived that ambush with none even getting a shoulder graze. There were at least 6 or 7 guys with AK rifles shooting in that living room. Finally, while I enjoyed getting the backstory of Victor Kreel and Vecna reeking havoc decades earlier, and overall having Nancy and Robin work together, Robin really is a bit much at times. Sure her rambling worked but at one point I felt like the dude would say yes just to get her to shut up. I also couldn't believe they didn't see through the man's ruse of going to do some paperwork and realize that he was likely onto them. 

[truthaboutluv]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:33 AM, Haleth said:

I wonder how that happened.  Steve was such a jerk in the first season, at least at the start.  Did TPTB see that the actor was just that good that they decided to rewrite him as more of a hapless, comical character?  It's so far from the hunky, arrogant guy he started out being.  Good for him if that's the case.  He works so well with all the younger cast and turned himself into a fan favorite.

I think another poster already touched on this, but if I recall correctly, during one of those Aftershow extras for Season 2, the Duffer brothers confirmed that the shift in Steve's character was largely because of how awesome Joe Kerry actually is in real life. Apparently he's like the nicest guy and they just liked him too much to get rid of the character, as had initially been planned. 

[Nashville]

DAMN, but that was a powerful ending.  Loved it.

On 5/27/2022 at 6:04 PM, bettername2come said:

And now I feel the need to download Kate Bush's "Running Up That Hill", even though I already have Within Temptation and Placebo covers of it. 

 

On 5/30/2022 at 4:06 PM, Lillith said:

I'm wondering if the symptoms (headaches, nosebleeds etc.) are the symptoms that attract Vecna of if the person gets them as a result of being targeted? 

The guidance counselor’s notes on the individual victims would seem to indicate the latter.