S04.E04: Chapter Four: Dear Billy

[Taryn74]

I was watching a video going over Max's climactic scene at the graveyard fighting Vecna, and it really struck me how high they had her floating in the air. I would think she would have broken both of her legs upon falling (unless Max was supposed to be a trained gymnast or something who knew how to land well). 

Anyone else LOL at that?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Yeah, I have wondered about that. She was pretty high, you'd have thought she would at least have an ankle sprain.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

I was watching a video going over Max's climactic scene at the graveyard fighting Vecna, and it really struck me how high they had her floating in the air. I would think she would have broken both of her legs upon falling (unless Max was supposed to be a trained gymnast or something who knew how to land well). 

Anyone else LOL at that?

Didn't even think of it - but then as a military brat we used to pretend to be paratroopers, and learned how to land well from our dads.

[mledawn]

14 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

I was watching a video going over Max's climactic scene at the graveyard fighting Vecna, and it really struck me how high they had her floating in the air. I would think she would have broken both of her legs upon falling (unless Max was supposed to be a trained gymnast or something who knew how to land well). 

Anyone else LOL at that?

Yeah, but you know who knows how to fall? Someone who skateboards. That was my fanwank, anyway!

[Taryn74]

7 minutes ago, mledawn said:

Yeah, but you know who knows how to fall? Someone who skateboards. That was my fanwank, anyway!

I like it! I can go with that.

[nodorothyparker]

Good episode. All the tedious Hopper escapes, no whoops he didn't stuff aside that's eating so much screentime while feeling mostly like an excuse to keep the adult cast busy and away from the kids' action aside, I'm just really bored with the whole storyline. Sucking Joyce and Murry further into it doesn't make it better. Just skip ahead to the part where they get back to where they're supposed to be.

They're really leaning hard into the Nightmare on Elm Street homage, which left me idly wondering did they come up with that first and then approach Robert Englund or was he the '80s star they managed to get and then decided to build the story around that casting? I guess it doesn't matter either way but I'm always a little curious about these things. Loved the little detail of him scratching grooves into his table. Robin and Nancy were a hoot first lying their way in and escaping and then hit the right tones in being so completely horrorstruck by his story, even if Robin comes across in some of it as a particularly antsy child. I get the overall effect the show was going for with her discomfort in the terrible wardrobe offerings but it was one of the few times in the series I felt like I was watching a bad game of dressup, 

As much as I'm still feeling like the cast is too spread out in their separate stories and that the show is weaker when Eleven is off the canvas for extended periods, Sadie Sink is really rising to the occasion. The gravestone scene could have been really maudlin but she sold the notion that at least part of her grief is about their not really getting along as stepsiblings and the implosion of the family that happened after he died. That can actually be a harder thing to move on from than just missing someone you loved because there's no chance for resolution. You can't fix it. You just have to live with where it ended. I feel like I'm supposed to have some feeling about the Harry PotterMy Little Pony inspired she survived because of the power of friendship/teamwork but I'm not sure that I honestly do beyond thinking that the set piece of what I guess was the waking nightmare version of the upside down was extremely well done.

The Will-Mike scene was written so ambiguously I think we're going to see what we want to see in it. At least they're not on the outs anymore even they're now fleeing bad guys with guns in a pizza truck.

[Hotel Snarker]

How the fuck is Hopper still walking???

“Running Up That Hill” is the new “Should I Stay or Should I Go”.

Dare I say that entire end scene with Max running towards the gang is easily one of the best moments this show has had. Just, wow. The song. The cinematography. Insane. I’m speechless. That whole sequence was really emotional especially after hearing Max's speech to Billy. OMG, all the awards to Sadie Sink. She needs an Emmy nomination or something. She’s such an incredible actress. You gotta hand it to the Duffers. They know how to find and cultivate young talent. So few in Hollywood can get even a passable performance out of a singular child actor. Here we have an entire cast of amazing child actors who have grown into such talented performers who get better with each year.

Steve doesn't need a spiked baseball bat anymore when he's got lamp. His tendency to just grab whatever it may be, be it an oar or a lamp, to whack someone is just awesome. He's ready to attack with all his guts armed with the randomest things. It's giving Mike-ready-to-attack-with-his-little-candle-holder energy.

Holy shit, that Hail Mary speech Robin gave was amazing! Did she even take a breath? I was so captivated I couldn't tell.

The scene in the asylum walking to visit the inmate was, I felt, an homage to Silence of the Lambs. The lighting, the darkness, the list of rules. It was perfect. My favorite book. I had no idea Robert Englund was in this season so it being actual Freddy Krueger they were visiting was such a cool reveal.

I hope Yuri gets possessed by Vecna’s curse.

“Surfer Boy Pizza, this is Argyle speaking. We make everything fresh here at Surfer Boy, except for our pineapple, which comes from a can.”

[LilJen]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:04 PM, bettername2come said:

"I could've taken you out with this lamp!"  I want to laugh at that, but Steve took out a Russian soldier with a phone last season, so seems plausible. 

I love that Erica charges interest on hush money. I wanted her to slam the door on the basketball captain's fingers.

"Holy shit, there's a little ballerina in here." "She's giving you an academic scholar vibe?" Hee. 

"If you think I'm going to spend what is likely the last day of my life in the armpit that is Mike Wheeler's basement, you're out of your mind. Either take me where I need to go or tie me down, which is technically kidnapping of a minor. And if I live to see another day, Steve, I swear to God, I will prosecute...I know a good lawyer." No wonder Steve's so tired of babysitting. Although I did love Nancy saying they weren't babies anymore. 

I'm so glad that Owen's friends really are the good guys. I was also really glad that the boys brought out the injured agent since it seemed he was telling them to go on without him. 

I feel like a gif of Hopper pulling up blankets and eating peanut butter straight out of the jar will be a meme soon. And in this case it will be appropriate to pronounce it JIF.

Yuri, you bastard!

Ok, Max visiting Billy's grave and reading a letter makes more sense if she's worried she's about to die.

Oh, that ending. That was so dramatic. I feel like she was able to fight longer than the others, probably because she knows what's happening. She's going to bring back that piece of Veccna's neck into the real world like in Nightmare on Elm Street, isn't she? And now I feel the need to download Kate Bush's "Running Up That Hill", even though I already have Within Temptation and Placebo covers of it. 

JIF indeed🤣

On 5/31/2022 at 2:31 PM, silverstream said:

I had a similar reaction - I disliked Steve in season 1, but at this point I'd be happy to watch a Steve-and-Robin spinoff. It doesn't even have to have monsters in it, just them hanging out together and having everyday adventures; the other characters can guest star from time to time. They could maybe open a business together after Robin's finished with school (detective/babysitting/bodyguard/ice-cream parlour combo) leading to loads of wacky subplots, Steve can go on increasingly disastrous dates and to contrast that there'd be a Robin/Vicky slowburn romance. I'd totally watch that!

I would watch it, especially if they wore something as delightful as the Scoops Ahoy outfits!

On 5/31/2022 at 9:06 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I didn't quite understand why Robin was rifling through Nancy's stuff and making comments? Is she just hyper and fidgety or was there a point to that?

The point was to satisfy Gen Xers like me, who vividly remember (and lusted after) those jewelry boxes with the ballerinas in them. 😜

[Redrum]

3 hours ago, LilJen said:

The point was to satisfy Gen Xers like me, who vividly remember (and lusted after) those jewelry boxes with the ballerinas in them.

Ok, like, my sister and I got those jewelry boxes for Christmas and.... god I hated that thing. I'm not a lesbian, I'm probably a butch asexual if there is such a thing but the pink satin lined jewelry box with the ballerina in pink tutu was one of those gifts that even now makes me angry with my mom over forcing everything girly. 

[nodorothyparker]

I'm a Gen Xer who did get one of those ballerina boxes, as did my sisters. I never had any strong feelings about it but kept it nonetheless as a catchall place for costume jewelry until my son the destroyer wrecked it just a few years ago. I was weirdly sad about it when it happened.

[LilJen]

If Dustin ever gets “infected”/whatever, The Neverending Story song MUST be involved in his survival.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

21 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm a Gen Xer who did get one of those ballerina boxes, as did my sisters. I never had any strong feelings about it but kept it nonetheless as a catchall place for costume jewelry until my son the destroyer wrecked it just a few years ago. I was weirdly sad about it when it happened.

Same. At least, I think I had a ballerina jewelry box but I neither loved nor hated it. Like a lot of Gen X girls, I took ballet lessons for three years (I wasn't particularly good at it) and I wonder if the inclusion of the jewelry box was to allude to that kind of experience for Nancy.

[CCTC]

On 5/28/2022 at 3:08 PM, SeanC said:

Not a creep, he just likes recreational narcotics.

It is just method acting to be prepared for the turn his character is doing this season.   There are a few characters that have run their course, but probably no more than Jonathan.  They have no idea what to do with him.  I would have said the same for Nancy, but I have really liked her scenes with Robin (and Robin's speech was great).  It is hard to imagine her staying with Jonathan at this point.  He seems to have regressed and gotten more immature and she is pretty darn focused and seems ready to enter the adult world.   

I don't want her back with Steve, although back in the day, I was pleasantly surprised that they were still together at the end of season 1 and they did not do the cliche of the popular kid breaking up with their popular significant other for the outsider.  I guess they saved that for season 2.  I do think it would be interesting to see Steve and Nancy interact and establish a friendship acknowledging how much they have both changed since they were the more superficial golden couple when the show started.

I really did not miss El at all.  I thought she was an impressive child actor in season 1, and I do not think she is bad now, but feel like she is doing the same sort of acting tics that she did back then.  I think actress playing Max might have more range now and is knocking it out of the park.  

Speaking of acting comparisons, Will might be acting circles around Mike.  They have really underutilized him.  I did like that they finally talked a bit. 

Agree with the Hopper story line bringing things to a halt.  The Russian element has always kind of been clunky, but even more so this year.  I liked Hopper, but his death being real might have brought a higher stake to the story, and I kind of thought the pairing of him and Joyce seemed a bit forced and unnecessary.   This show reminds me a little bit of Harry Potter with the need to feel they need to try to couple everyone.  

I initially thought Chrissy was pregnant when she was throwing up, partially from how she seemed a bit uncomfortable around her boyfriend, but bulimia also makes sense.  A big symptom of pregnancy in the 80's was fainting.  It seemed like not many women realized they might be pregnant because they were late on TV.  They would either faint or complain how they were gaining weight and feeling sick in the morning, and someone would ask, could you be pregnant.   They never replied to that by saying, you know what - I am 3 weeks late.

Edited July 7, 2022 by CCTC

[LeGrandElephant]

On 6/6/2022 at 7:09 PM, CailynA said:

Max's feelings about Billy actually make a little more sense after reading Runaway Max today. Sadie is killing it this season

I like books but I don’t want to have to find a book to understand a show. Can you summarize?

[CailynA]

4 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I like books but I don’t want to have to find a book to understand a show. Can you summarize?

It really just gives more background on their relationship after their parents get married and more of Billy being abused by his father. There were times where Billy was nearly decent to Max and times where he and his friends were horrible.

The only problem is it has the parents introducing the kids like a year before they move to Hawkins not when they were much smaller like we see in the memory El sees in Billy's head in season 2

[bijoux]

Even if this season has its faults, I love it for the way it handles Max's grief, guilt and regret over what could have been. And it uses the genre effectively to do so. Excellent writing and performance. You know who else has complicated feelings about the death of a shitty family member? El. I wonder if her presence would have helped both Max and her to deal with it.

Max can give Steve shit and threaten him with legal action, but there was only one person outside her family and group of peers that got a letter - Steve. And that just melts my heart.

Yuri is hands down the worst new character. I can forgive his betrayal, but not the incessant bad stand up schtick. Just stop, man.

Good for Mike for finally having a normal talk with Will before everything went to shit. Who would have expected that agant who was lazing about watching TV to be such a BAMF? Not me.

Edited August 1, 2022 by bijoux

[Taryn74]

Very minor nitpick -- Robin was going on in this episode about being super klutzy (when Nancy wanted them to outrun the cops at the asylum) but she's been in marching band for years. Those two things are not congruent, LOL. I had two kids in marching band and they had to be able to walk and even run sideways and backwards and all sorts of things WHILE holding their instruments up and not let them droop. You can't do all that if you're that klutzy.

Yeah, I said it was a minor nitpick, heh. But it made me roll my eyes.

[Clanstarling]

19 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Very minor nitpick -- Robin was going on in this episode about being super klutzy (when Nancy wanted them to outrun the cops at the asylum) but she's been in marching band for years. Those two things are not congruent, LOL. I had two kids in marching band and they had to be able to walk and even run sideways and backwards and all sorts of things WHILE holding their instruments up and not let them droop. You can't do all that if you're that klutzy.

Yeah, I said it was a minor nitpick, heh. But it made me roll my eyes.

Fair point. My kids haven't been in them, but I've seen plenty of them, and klutzy won't quite work in a marching band.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Fair point. My kids haven't been in them, but I've seen plenty of them, and klutzy won't quite work in a marching band.

Depends upon the marcher; I’ve known people who could execute complex patterns flawlessly while holding an instrument, but outside of a formation couldn’t walk across a room without tripping on a paper clip. 😄

[Quickbeam]

A very intense episode (I’m binging late to the show). Completely don’t care about Jonathan. Love David Harbour but this Russia subplot is soooo stupid. Kid action was riveting. Good acting all around.

I just can’t get beyond the fact that all these kids are saddled with the worst bangs I’ve ever seen. Atrocious. I was a juvenile probation officer the entire 1980s decade and worked with thousands of kids. I never once saw a kid with those ridiculous bangs. No kid wore their hair like that. Ever. 

[Kel Varnsen]

So I watched this one again with my daughter today and I am still not 100% sure what the other prisoner hitting Hopper in the legs actually did? Did it some how bend his shackles making them easier to get off or did it crunch the bones in his legs making them somehow more flexible (but still able to walk). 

Also since we have been watching the whole series at a fairly fast pace I noticed a lot more things. And when Max was reading her letter to Billy I wondered if she ever figured out that he got possessed by the Mind Flayer on the night when he was forced to go out and loom for her after she took off?

[Taryn74]

55 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am still not 100% sure what the other prisoner hitting Hopper in the legs actually did?

That part is very confusing. The first time I tried not to watch too closely, because ewww, but when rewatching I tried to pay more attention since obviously if it had broken his foot/ankle he wouldn't have been able to walk normally. It kind of looked like the guy cut into his foot enough that he could wedge the shackle into the cut and have enough room that way to pull it off? But I like your idea that maybe he was bending the shackles out of place to make them easier to pull off. I really don't know.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

But I like your idea that maybe he was bending the shackles out of place to make them easier to pull off. I really don't know.

But even that doesn't really make sense since there was nothing holding the shackles in place. If you hit it on one side with the hammer it would just move. The idea of a cut kind of makes sense but again how do you do that without crippling someone. Then again Hopper being able to run through the snow in bare feet then get on a snowmobile then run some more and being just fine was also stupid.

[secnarf]

21 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I watched this one again with my daughter today and I am still not 100% sure what the other prisoner hitting Hopper in the legs actually did? Did it some how bend his shackles making them easier to get off or did it crunch the bones in his legs making them somehow more flexible (but still able to walk).

I thought it was the second option - that by breaking the bone in his leg/foot, he could then bend his leg/foot in such a way to be able to twist out of the shackles.

[Nashville]

20 hours ago, secnarf said:

I thought it was the second option - that by breaking the bone in his leg/foot, he could then bend his leg/foot in such a way to be able to twist out of the shackles.

This was my original thought as well - but as has been pointed out earlier, a broken foot/ankle doesn’t exactly jibe with Hopper’s amazing post-escape abilities to suddenly outrun armed guards while running barefoot in Siberian snow.

One other option which did occur to me, though: maybe the goal wasn’t to break the foot/ankle, but bruise it enough to induce significant swelling - and, in the process, dupe the guards into loosening the restraints to prevent chafing injury?

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

maybe the goal wasn’t to break the foot/ankle, but bruise it enough to induce significant swelling - and, in the process, dupe the guards into loosening the restraints to prevent chafing injury?

Interesting thought!

[smartymarty]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:20 AM, LilJen said:

The point was to satisfy Gen Xers like me, who vividly remember (and lusted after) those jewelry boxes with the ballerinas in them.

My baby boomer sister had one of those in the early 1970s.

So the music being the sword to Vecna? That's why in the earlier episodes we always saw Max with her Walkman on? The music was protecting her then.