S06.E12: Katoby

[himela]

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Did I see correctly that Philip had a mustache when they were at the future bar for Jack's performance? No. Just no.

He is trying so hard to become Jack Pearson!

[Laurie4H]

I mean, would Phillip really be attracted to Kate?  And if she maintained that weight into her 60’s (I’m assuming that was their ages in the flash forward with Jack as an adult) I would think she would be a severe diabetic on dialysis and/or heart issues.  

I know it’s not just about the way Kate looks but her personality.  Maybe she became a much happier person with Phillip but people usually don’t change. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Laurie4H

[Artsda]

I see nothing appealing in Kate that Phillip would want. She made no effort to compromise for Toby. It's all he's wrong and must change, never her.

This episode was speed relationship of Kate/Phillip. They spend 6 years on Toby/Kate and in just 1 in a rushed multiple timelines have Kate/Phillip go from dating to proposal, engagement party and now wedding. Way too rushed.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Artsda

[CountryGirl]

11 hours ago, Cancun said:

Who throws a giant engagement party the 2nd time?

Plenty of people do, especially when it's the first marriage for one of them. I realize it's the second marriage for Kate and Philip but I see nothing wrong with wanting to have a big to-do for the engagement party and wedding. Falling in love and getting married the second time round is no less special. 

[bybrandy]

1) You are unlikely to know in a 2 minute clip if she has diabetes or heart issues because you don't get a giant badge that says, "I have diabetes and heart issues" both diabetes and heart issues are treatable and Kate could have those and be controlled on medication that you wouldn't see her take in a 2 minute clip.  

 

2) she might well have gotten to her 60s without severe diabetes or heart issues.  Not all fat people are unhealthy.   

 

[Katie111]

20 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

I mean, would Phillip really be attracted to Kate?  And if she maintained that weight into her 60’s (I’m assuming that was their ages in the flash forward with Jack as an adult) I would think she would be a severe diabetic on dialysis and/or heart issues.  

I know it’s not just about the way Kate looks but her personality.  Maybe she became a much happier person with Phillip but people usually don’t change. 

This is what makes no sense to me.    Toby and Kate made sense because they were both overweight.  Kate is morbidly obese.  That is definitely a “type”.  There are men who are attracted to that “type” but there is no indication that morbidly obese has ever been Phillip’s “type”.    Maybe Kevin will surprise us all and find a 400 pound woman to marry as he is so enamored of his sister. 
 

And Kate is miserable while her marriage is unraveling.  So what would he see in her personality that would make him overlook her physical attributes? Or does him being married to a blind woman show that he’s willing to be with someone with a disability?  And Kate is also infertile which was an issue in his first marriage.  If he wanted kids, wouldn’t he be looking for a younger wife that could give him them?  I know Kate has kids but many people want kids of thsit own. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Katie111

[bybrandy]

1 minute ago, CountryGirl said:

Plenty of people do, especially when it's the first marriage for one of them. I realize it's the second marriage for Kate and Philip but I see nothing wrong with wanting to have a big to-do for the engagement party and wedding. Falling in love and getting married the second time round is no less special. 

This.  I would't want a big engagement party/wedding for any wedding because that isn't my jam but if I was a big party person who loved big parties, I'd think it was insulting to treat my second marriage like it was worth less than my first marriage.   If I wasn't as invested in that relationship as I had been in my previous one I wouldn't be getting married.   

 

[Lisa418722]

I feel like I need to go back and rewatch this episode after reading comments and figuring out what I missed, but I just cannot do it.  I'm still Team Toby and I'm glad he met parfait woman because he deserves to be happy especially after the way Kate treated him for years.   Kate thinks she tried to save their marriage but she checked out before Toby moved back to LA.  Toby did try but he had two faults (1) he lost weight and (2) he was not Jack Pearson.   
Even after watching last night I still do not see what Phillip sees in Kate and how they fell in love.  When he was telling his story about how his marriage ended I had to laugh because maybe he could be equal to the Pearson tragedy (we know that no one can ever out Pearson the Pearsons).  And Toby telling him how important football is to Kate made me wonder, IS football still important to Kate?  Has Kate finally realized that no man can ever be the perfection known as Jack Pearson? 
In the engagement scene didn't Kate say Sophie was there with her husband?  
One positive thing:  it was nice after all the speculation to see that Kate is still alive when the kids are grown and that she and Toby are civil to each other.  
I don't know if I can handle another two (??) weeks of Kate and her wedding.  C'mon people I've been asking for a Miguel backstory since Deja's first standalone episode.  I don't think I'm asking for too much.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by Lisa418722

[Trillian]

7 hours ago, camom said:

I'm on the Toby train.  He made every compromise and Kate made none.  And she criticized every single thing he did with their kids.  They both had faults, of course, but Kate just wasn't ever willing to give an inch.

Any vestige of sympathy I had for Kate (and I had very little by this point) vanished when Toby offered to take the LA job that was a step down in his career and Kate said yes. Any halfway decent spouse would’ve said, “look, you don’t have to take a job that won’t make you happy (and that is mysteriously still open to you) but I don’t want to move to SF and can’t handle our being separated long-term.  Can we talk about a plan?”.  He could’ve continued looking for something better in LA or even tried to negotiate fewer days in the SF office and more remote work.  

What a horrible creature with no concern for anybody but herself.  I begrudged her every minute of happiness that followed in the episode.

[gonzosgirrl]

I wasn't able to watch last night, and reading through the thread I feel like it's the first time I genuinely want to skip an episode. I didn't realize how much I genuinely dislike the whole Kate/Toby divorce (and IMO the ret-conning of his character) until reading through the thread this morning.

I do want to see *darling little Jack again though, so I guess I have to watch.

 

* I generally loathe children on tv - it's quite a thing for me how much this little guy charmed me.

[BC4ME]

Like others, I cannot buy Phillip's out of the blue transition from jerk to softie. And what is there for him in Kate?? They spend time telling us how great she is but not showing us. So contrived.

I rank this disappointing episode as second only to the horrible Randal swimming naked with his ghost mom as worst of the series.  

[Laurie4H]

17 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

This is what makes no sense to me.    Toby and Kate made sense because they were both overweight.  Kate is morbidly obese.  That is definitely a “type”.  There are men who are attracted to that “type” but there is no indication that morbidly obese has ever been Phillip’s “type”.    Maybe Kevin will surprise us all and find a 400 pound woman to marry as he is so enamored of his sister. 
 

And Kate is miserable while her marriage is unraveling.  So what would he see in her personality that would make him overlook her physical attributes? Or does him being married to a blind woman show that he’s willing to be with someone with a disability?  And Kate is also infertile which was an issue in his first marriage.  If he wanted kids, wouldn’t he be looking for a younger wife that could give him them?  I know Kate has kids but many people want kids of thsit own. 

It would be more realistic that he would be interested in her if she struggled with 40 or 50 extra lbs but like you said she is morbidly obese, that is a type for some men and there was no indication that is what he found attractive.  
 

And why do so many shows make it about not having kids is the be and all end all to everything?  Shows like Chicago Med will show people about to die but only care about their unborn child.  Not their husbands or families etc.....people going crazy because they can’t have kids.  Kidnapping someone else’s (Lifetime movies) I’m 47 and don’t have kids and I’m not beside myself about it.  I have my nephew that I love.  I guess some people judge that.  

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Any vestige of sympathy I had for Kate (and I had very little by this point) vanished when Toby offered to take the LA job that was a step down in his career and Kate said yes. Any halfway decent spouse would’ve said, “look, you don’t have to take a job that won’t make you happy (and that is mysteriously still open to you) but I don’t want to move to SF and can’t handle our being separated long-term.  Can we talk about a plan?”.  He could’ve continued looking for something better in LA or even tried to negotiate fewer days in the SF office and more remote work.  

I think Kate knew there was no turning back after the Anniversary Party fight, so it bothers me that she let Toby quit the San Francisco job after hearing how happy he was and how depressed he'd be if he left. Though, it also bothers me that his San Fran company didn't offer him a remote option, because in a post-COVID world, there's no way he wouldn't. I get that Toby's in IT, where you often have to physically poke around servers, but if they could manage Toby being in LA 3 days a week without anything cataclysmic happening, they could survive a remote arrangement. 

[Jax7917]

I am confused on the timeline. How long after their divorce was the engagement party/wedding? It seemed like Kate and Philip started dating the same day her and Toby signed the divorce papers. Was the ink even dry yet before she up and moved on?

I really dislike Kate, not because she was wrong for wanting a divorce. She saw that there was no coming back for them and that they were at the point where they were affecting the kids and they just started to hate each other, so I get her reasoning for wanting the divorce. But throughout her entire marriage to him, it always seemed like it was Toby bending over backwards for Kate and Kate just sulking that he's not doing enough. Toby can be annoying but he was a good husband and always was very verbally appreciative of her and physically there for her and always doing nice things to show her he loved her. She always expected a grand gesture because he did a lot of them in the beginning of their relationship but once they settled into marriage, she always needed one ( I think she said so a few episodes ago that he's not the same Toby as he used to be because he doesn't do grand gestures anymore.) She just expected him to give , give, give but what did she ever give? The guy lost weight because he had a heart attack and she was pissed off because he was healthy and happy. She expected to not have any income so that all the financial responsibilities falls on Toby, but then got mad and made it look like he was wrong because he had to provide. She loved volunteering at the school but surely there's a similar school in SF. Did she want to stay there because she loved it or just be closer to Philip? If she didn't want to work a real job, then she should have been supportive of her husband who had to to keep the family afloat. She just always needed more and that's really a Pearson trait. They might have had nice, attentive parents, but their parents did a disservice to them by making them think they are the only people in the world to matter and that the entire world revolves around them.

So Kevin doesn't end up with Madison and most likely not Sophie. Is it just a random person after all these seasons?

[cardigirl]

I appreciated the show modeling an ideal divorce, in that there was no big custody battle, which I was certain Kate was going to pull on Toby. The kids were doing better than okay because they had so many loving adults in their lives. 

Very happy to see that Toby was able to move on from Kate and be happy again. He truly deserved it. And I did rather enjoy him teaching Phillip about American football. 

I don't mind Phillip, or even his very sad backstory, but I still find it difficult to believe that a woman with two children would be dating again so easily. 

I appreciated Kate telling Phillip that she had married a good man and that they loved each other very much, but it wasn't enough. Made it seem like she appreciated something about Toby. 

I didn't appreciate that Kate in no way, shape, or form attempted any kind of compromise to save her relationship. It was all on Toby to do so. 

And I'm not sure what they are trying with Kevin. He had taken so many steps forward, with the episode with Cassidy and the beginnings of the Big Three construction company, only to be shown floundering again.  I'm not hoping for him to reunite with Sophie, but I had hoped he would be a lot more thoughtful about his future relationships.  That part of this episode depressed me. 

[Trillian]

9 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I think Kate knew there was no turning back after the Anniversary Party fight, so it bothers me that she let Toby quit the San Francisco job after hearing how happy he was and how depressed he'd be if he left. 

That’s a great point.  Just divorce the guy and get it over with - it’s not like she tried to fix anything.  No, our precious Kate had to grind him into the dust first. 

[Cheyanne11]

Of course Toby had to call Kate on her wedding day and tell her she was right all those years ago.  Nothing less than "you are wise, you are perfect" for a Pearson. 

[bluegirl147]

30 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Any vestige of sympathy I had for Kate (and I had very little by this point) vanished when Toby offered to take the LA job that was a step down in his career and Kate said yes. Any halfway decent spouse would’ve said, “look, you don’t have to take a job that won’t make you happy (and that is mysteriously still open to you) but I don’t want to move to SF and can’t handle our being separated long-term.  Can we talk about a plan?”.  He could’ve continued looking for something better in LA or even tried to negotiate fewer days in the SF office and more remote work.  

What a horrible creature with no concern for anybody but herself.  I begrudged her every minute of happiness that followed in the episode.

I have never been a fan of Kate but when I heard her say that I actually hated her.  I don't know if the writers think we are supposed to be on Kate's side but that scene showed me how selfish she is.

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Oh, and then Kevin brings State Farm girl to the engagement party, who actually SINGS THE JINGLE. We then go to a commercial break, where there's a full State Farm advertisement!

Yes, you just have to love it when a product placement is written into the episode.  

Can someone tell me what Kate's new job at the school was supposed to be?  I thought I heard the retiring teacher say she would be a supervisor, but I'm not sure what that means or how Kate would be qualified.

[Laurie4H]

8 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Yes, you just have to love it when a product placement is written into the episode.  

Can someone tell me what Kate's new job at the school was supposed to be?  I thought I heard the retiring teacher say she would be a supervisor, but I'm not sure what that means or how Kate would be qualified.

I wonder about her job also.  She doesn’t have a degree does she?

[Haleth]

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

(Did her nameplate say Mrs. Kate Pearson?

It said Mrs Pearson-Damon.

Was Sophie with her husband?  I wasn't paying enough attention.  I guess there's still time for her to divorce and marry remarry the love of her life before Rebecca dies.  (Not that I think she should, but this show....)

If Phillip thinks he can find happiness with Kate, his first wife (RIP) must have been an absolute harpy.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Haleth

[GeorgiaRai]

Except for seeing Toby happy in the however-distance future, I was like the Grinch watching this episode:  "Hate, hate, hate, double hate, loathe entirely..."

It did address some questions (mainly, for me, that Kate is alive at the time of the Death Watch Party for Rebecca), I just didn't like most of the answers.

Was it clear when Toby met Parfait Woman?  Could it have been after the deathbed scene? I wonder if he struggled for those first few years, but got some kind of closure after whatever happened at the cabin event he wasn't sure he should attend.

Sophie is married to someone else, but part of me thinks the whole Toby / Kate / Phillip tale was spun just to facilitate Kevin seeing Sophie again, setting the stage for them to get back together.  

 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by GeorgiaRai

[Pristine]

We had severe weather, so I missed a good part of the episode.  Do I want t re-watch?  

[Rootbeer]

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, what was the point of portraying Philip as a total jerk to his girlfriend in the breakup scene?  Why was that important?  Did the writers want to make sure it was clear that Kate had zero interest in him?  So, there would be no question she had eyes for Phil before she dumped Toby.  And, once they hook up, they have to make him super sympathetic, so we feel Kate should hook up with him.  It’s so bizarre.  

It was like they took original Philip and replaced him with a pod-person.  I presume that that was exactly the reason; so that no one watching would ever think that darling, perfect Kate would ever have eyes for another man while she was still married to Toby.  There was absolutely no reason to have Philip appear at all in previous episodes, a quick scene in this one to set them up as colleagues at the school would've been plenty and he could offer to take her for a drink to 'celebrate' her divorce.

As far as Kate getting together with Gregory: Tim Omundson who plays him is 52 which I expect TPTB feel is too old for Kate who they seemingly want to present as highly desirable and attractive, allowing her to hook up with cute guys in her age group.  Gregory is too old and not hot enough, I suspect.  Tim Omundson also really did have a stroke and isn't acting when we see Gregory's physical limitations and he might not have wanted to commit to more than we've already seen.  Would've been nice to get a glimpse of him at Kate's fancy engagement party and/or the wedding, but I'm not holding my breath.

Quote

he biggest mistake that Toby made is not bothering to show Kate that there would be opportunities for her to continue the work she loved in SF. There has to be schools that Kate could work at there that would provide her the same fulfillment. That isn’t something that is specific to LA. 

Why would that be Toby's responsibility?  Kate knows there are schools for the blind in SF, she can google it.  On her one short visit to SF, she made it clear she wasn't interested in moving there, she barely tolerated meeting his work friends and was upset that he showed her a potential home for them, why would Toby having information about schools for the blind make any difference at all.  The biggest mistake Toby made was the one he owned up to: he was not Jack Pearson.

Quote

Haley has family close and Rebecca is there. Those are two very important things that aren’t in SF, 

We haven't seen or heard that there is any contact between Hailey's birth mother and the Damons, so why does it matter if they live near her? Is it even an open adoption?  Rebecca and Miguel are moving to PA as soon as the house is finished there, which should be a matter of months.  Meanwhile, Toby found a house in SF with an in-law suite which would make it simple for them to visit as often as they liked.  The reason Kate wanted to stay in LA is because she doesn't like change and she has been lead to believe since childhood that she deserves to get everything she wants, no matter what.

Quote

kind of wish that Toby didn’t leave his job to try and save the marriage because it just made him miserable and it really affected his ability to be a parent. 

Say what?  I agree that he hated his new job, but it gave him more time with his kids and we have NEVER seen any evidence that he is a bad parent.  We saw that he left the new job at 5 on the dot to get home (at least in part because the job sucked, but whatever) and he did it so he didn't have to travel back and forth to SF anymore.  Seems to me Toby did his best to parent his kids and to do it in the way that Kate wanted, which is why he took the lesser job in LA.

[absnow54]

47 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

So Kevin doesn't end up with Madison and most likely not Sophie. Is it just a random person after all these seasons?

I think the "woman he sleeps with at Kate's wedding" is supposed to be significant. They've established that Sophie was married at Kate's engagement party, but we don't know her status at the wedding. Madison was pregnant at the engagement party, and not pregnant at the wedding, so some amount of time has passed between the engagement party and the wedding. I think Sophie is still very likely to be the wife at this point. 

10 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

Was it clear when Toby met Parfait Woman?  Could it have been after the deathbed scene? I wonder if he struggled for those first few years, but got some kind of closure after whatever happened at the cabin event he wasn't sure he should attend.

Someone needs to try to put the scenes into chronological order. We see Toby bond and attend birthday parties before the wedding, so it's possible he saw that things would get better before he met Parfait Woman. 

[Empress1]

27 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

I wonder about her job also.  She doesn’t have a degree does she?

I haven’t seen the episode yet but if Kate is a special ed supervisor with a BA and a little teaching experience, that’s really unrealistic. A friend of mine is one and she has a master’s and had at least ten years in the classroom before moving into her role. Her first full-time job was a low level admin job in special ed that she did while getting her master’s, so she had like 15 years special ed experience altogether, plus the education, before she started supervising.

13 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

We haven't seen or heard that there is any contact between Hailey's birth mother and the Damons, so why does it matter if they live near her? Is it even an open adoption? 

On the day they brought Hailey home, the birth mother expressly said she couldn’t have Hailey in her life. True to form, Kate tried to steamroll her about it and Toby correctly shushed her. She hasn’t been seen or heard from since. I’m sure if she got in contact with them and wanted to see Hailey they’d allow it, but she definitely is not someone around whom they should be making any decisions.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Empress1

[JudyObscure]

I usually avoid all movies, TV shows and books about divorce, but I didn't want to lose continuity after watching every episode of this, so I watched -- and broke into ugly crying both times little Jack said, "You're both here!"  Depressed now.

I thought Kate was rotten for letting Toby give up his job in L. A. when she must have known, deep down, that she had already given up on the marriage.  As evidenced by her being the worst therapy patient ever.

On the other hand, I do see the attraction between Kate and Phillip.  Something in Phillip makes him want to be a white knight for his woman,  the type of guy who would marry a blind woman or one who was very obese.  He also clearly loves children while doubting if he is capable of making a woman pregnant so Kate, who already has two adorable children, would be ideal.  I didn't think there was anything overly quick about their first date either.  They've been friends at work for years and Kate is a very different happy, enthusiastic person when she's teaching those kids.

As for future Kate still being alive.  Morbidly obese women have an average shortened life span of five years.  So.  Death at 75 rather than 80 would be average.  The diet industry has been trying to make us believe that if we don't lose weight we're going to drop dead next week, but it just isn't true.

 

[t7686]

The whole thing was sad. Toby who was so full of life in the beginning turned into a bitter, mean jerk. He was like that guy who wants to dump you but can’t so they say horrible things in order to force your hand. Then turns around and says they don’t want to break up 🙄sure in the beginning of the series did Kate have an unhealthy relationship with her grief over her father’s death? Yes. But by the end, the one person who mentioned Jack over and over was Toby. Though, he wasn’t wrong with what he said.
 

I thought it showed growth on Kate’s part that she seemed to have toned it down with Philip. He didn’t know about her obsession with football. Overall though, I’m team Toby in the divorce. Kate was horrible! She said yes to him quitting just because it benefited her the most. She knew he would be unhappy and didn’t care. Then for it not to work out, poor guy. Plus she gets a new relationship the DAY they sign divorce papers? We should all be so lucky lol I wish she had been the one to not want to end it, that would have been more “fair” and had Kate not getting everything she wanted for once.

 

And her critique of his parenting! So annoying and I could see why it would eat at someone after awhile. She did the same thing with her mom and them too. 
 

Little Jack is the best and hope we see Hailey more going forward! I was holding out hope that Kevin and Madison would work out but looks like that’s done for good. She does seem happy. Can we let Sophie go? Jesus lol if she takes him back after cheating twice, that’s a bad look on her part. Kevin needs to be with someone new. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by t7686

[CountryGirl]

11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Madison was supposed to not be able to get pregnant and the twins were a "miracle." But now she can get pregnant 5 years later? Is she meant to be much younger than Kate?

People on TV with fertility issues always end up pregnant later on when the writers want a different storyline.

It is not that unusual to have someone struggle getting pregnant the first go-round but be able to get pregnant more easily the second time as the body remembers what to do. The same is true with secondary infertility where couples have zero issues having their first baby and then are blindsided when it comes to trying to have baby #2. 

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, what was the point of portraying Philip as a total jerk to his girlfriend in the breakup scene?  Why was that important?  Did the writers want to make sure it was clear that Kate had zero interest in him?  So, there would be no question she had eyes for Phil before she dumped Toby.  And, once they hook up, they have to make him super sympathetic, so we feel Kate should hook up with him.  It’s so bizarre.  

A commenter on the TVLine recap pointed out that she alluded to his past trauma. I'm guessing that was the point, to set us up for the reveal of his first wife and her tragic demise. Might have worked better if I remembered that.

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I'm trying to imagine the conversation between Sophie and her husband when she told him she wanted to go to LA for Kate's engagement party. "You want me to fly all the way across the country to attend the engagement party for what will be the second marriage of your former sister-in-law? And your ex-husband, for whom you carried a torch for many years after your divorce, will also be there? Awesome, I can't wait!"

 I can see traveling across the country for the wedding, but an engagement party?

9 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I am NOT buying Philip's, "You make me happy, Kate." Why? They're on their first date! It's a visual medium--SHOW not tell! But they didn't give this supposed romance any time to develop. It all got smooshed together in one episode.

I wonder how long it was between them "hanging" as friends on the day they signed the divorce papers and their actual first date.

8 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Oh, and then Kevin brings State Farm girl to the engagement party, who actually SINGS THE JINGLE. We then go to a commercial break, where there's a full State Farm advertisement!

They're even better at the product placement than A Million Little Things!

5 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I guess Kate is going to have to edit her phone contacts now.  That's all I got.

I want her to keep him as Philip Mean Jerk for the rest of their lives.

1 hour ago, Katie111 said:

 And Kate is also infertile which was an issue in his first marriage.  If he wanted kids, wouldn’t he be looking for a younger wife that could give him them?  I know Kate has kids but many people want kids of thsit own. 

I got the impression that his wife was the one who desperately wanted kids, and he was willing to try until the IVF and all the heartbreak got to be too much, but he was okay with the possibility of not having his own. 

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

Any vestige of sympathy I had for Kate (and I had very little by this point) vanished when Toby offered to take the LA job that was a step down in his career and Kate said yes.

She more just kinda sighed and said "okay."

[SunnyBeBe]

When Philip and Toby were talking at the sports bar and Philip said he was going to propose to Kate….I sort of wished Toby would have said, I’ll like to offer you my condolences.   😝

[CountryGirl]

This episode was A LOT, especially with all the time jumps back and forth, but in the end and probably UO, I loved it.

I appreciated that we didn't see them immediately throwing in the towel, but that it was revealed that they tried for at least another 16 months as they referenced being in counseling for that long (IMO several months after it was obvious it was over). They did fight for their marriage, but unfortunately, the resentment that was already there grew exponentially when Toby took the LA job he originally turned down (guess it made enough money after all?) and it was clearly a letdown on many levels while Kate was thriving in her new position at the music school.

I had a feeling that Toby moving back to LA wouldn't automatically fix everything between them just as I felt Kate and the kids moving to SF would be putting a band-aid over a broken arm and was proven right. Very quickly, the shiny newness of them all being under one roof wore off and the resentments went from simmering to a full-on boil.

Kate showing up late for therapy when she could have excused herself much sooner was not okay and showed she didn't see Toby as a priority. Toby's comment about Kate's dream job at the New Big 3's birthday party, no matter that he stated it was about the school versus her, was also not okay and they are right back to where we left them at the end of the last episode.

They have what will be the final blowup with Toby calling her out on holding him to an impossible standard of St. Jack and I felt for Toby here because it has to be terrible living in the shadow of a dead man. The reality is that Jack wasn't a saint. He made many mistake, including coddling Kate, being too hard on Kevin, and favoring Randall, the heir apparent to his golden mantle. Because of his work and alcoholism, much of the heavy lifting of parenting fell to Rebecca, which Kate doesn't realize or acknowledge. I did cringe though when Toby said that Kate would have married Jack if he hadn't died. It was a bit much, but yet, that's the kind of influence Jack had on his children. Even if we didn't see many scenes of this, Toby had to have felt this at times.

When Jack throws his toy in the toilet, wanting to stop the fighting, that got to me. As did Toby when he says, afterwards, that he never wanted to be like his parents and having his kids hear fighting and yet, here they are. It's then that Kate realizes she is DONE and that they need to end the marriage.

There's that happy turned sad moment later on when Toby, having moved out, brings the kids home and Jack wakes and is so excited to see them together with his "you're both here."

Which makes Toby want to put the brakes on the impending divorce, painfully and oh-so-realistically confessing that he is terrified of being alone and having to start over yet again and only seeing his kids half of the time (which was so hard to watch) but Kate is resolute because she recognizes that they are better now because they are apart and knows, too, if Toby were to move back in, it would only be a matter of time before they're back to sniping at each other.

Him moving to kiss her and her pulling away and his realization "this is the last time I'll kiss my wife." That gutted me. Knowing that there is still much love between them as Kate stands there, visibly moved, her eyes filled with tears, but knowing that life isn't enough to fix what's broken between them.

A moment of levity after they sign the papers with the Whitney Houston "I Will Always Love You" punctuating the end of their marriage and them having no choice but to laugh together, like they used to. But used to is a long, long time ago.

Kate telling him that their marriage is over doesn't mean the end of their story and she is right, even if Toby cannot see it just then. They were meant to find each other and have two beautiful children, but now their story is leading them on separate paths. But they will always be in the other's life.

I appreciated seeing the Phate backstory, even if it was admittedly rushed by virtue of it mainly being in one episode (perhaps we'll get more in the wedding episode next week). I like that Philip, like any good friend would, took her out after her divorce to get her karaoke on. Have done with a few friends after their divorce (although we only did karaoke once). "Tubthumping" is still one of my favorite pick-me-up songs.

On their first date, it's clear there's still a lot of baggage there and I liked that it wasn't instant love with Kate pulling away after initially grabbing Philip's hand. Then where she lays everything out for Philip so he knows exactly what he's getting himself into and also calls him out on wanting to date her, "a recently divorced, non-toothpick...mother of two."

We finally get Philip's backstory and hearing how their marriage disintegrated in the wake of 3 failed IVFs (I could so relate to that as MH and I went through 6 failed rounds with nothing to show for it but an early miscarriage) and how his wife was tragically killed minutes after his wife had literally walked out the door to go stay with her mother. It explains so much about Philip's more reserved, prickly demeanor, which I never took for "jerk" or "asshole" in the slightest. He didn't immediately get swept off his feet by Kate (remember how he didn't want to hire her given her lack of credentials or experience but he had zero say in the decision) and she had to prove herself first. That's not being an asshole in my book. It's actually to his credit that he wasn't an insta-Pearson fan. While I still wish there had been another episode or two to get to know Philip, I don't need a whole series or even season worth to decide that I think he's a much better fit for Kate. In fairness, she's in a much different place than she was when she and Toby met and they took 4-5 years after the divorce to marry, which is not rushing anything in the slightest. That will make for a much better foundation for a marriage and clearly, they are still together and seemingly happy more than 20 years later as are Toby and his wife. 

I liked seeing Toby and Philip at the bar together and having a conversation about what the future would hold. Philip agreeing to not yell around or at the kids, that was a tender moment for me, and showed what a great father Toby is. Toby teaching Philip about American football, knowing how important it was to Kate and Jack Sr. You're good people, Toby.

The proposal with an older Jack and Hailey and their absolutely adorable faces as they held up their signs was so sweet and heartfelt. It's clear the kids really like (possibly even love) Philip. I appreciate that the kids are front and center and very much a part of their parents' lives and that of their significant others (I'd love to see a future scene and the new Mrs. Damon). 

We see their engagement party (and as previously posted the thought that a second marriage isn't as special and therefore undeserving of a big to-do doesn't make sense to me in the slightest). And we see a pregnant Madison with Elijah at her side and sorry, Kevison fans, but I am thrilled that they have finally put the nail in that particular coffin. I don't even care if it's Kophie in the end (although my money is still on it), just so long as it isn't some faked, forced Kevison situation.

An older Rebecca initially forgetting Philip's name, reminding us, like nothing else can, of time marching on.

The scenes where we see Kate's words about their story coming true as we jump ahead to the New Big 3's 6th birthday. The moment of Toby arriving with the kids to drop them off, Philip setting the table, and him offering to have Toby join them and he does and I have no idea what came over me but that made me cry.

Then we see Toby meet his future wife and how adorable are they getting their flirt and meet cute on? I'm so happy for Toby as he deserves to find love and happiness.

We see a grown-up Jack with Toby, his wife, a very-much-alive Kate (phew!) and Philip. Jack is as happy to see them there as he was in that earlier scene as a toddler with the same "You're Both Here!" comment and I may not need a beach towel, but I need a tissue dammit.

We finally come back to Kate's wedding day and the phone call from Toby. Yes, I initially had a moment where I thought he was going to ask her to reconsider, but it's for Toby to tell her that he understands what she meant the day they divorced and she was right about their story. 

Katoby the lovers and married couple may be no more, but they are still Katoby, co-parents to their kids and their lives have been changed for the better accordingly. But what an incredible gift Toby gave to Kate with his call as she is about to embark on married life with Philip.

I went into this episode, thinking I would hate it, but I really did love it. More than I ever thought possible. 

[Triviatrish2]

5 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When Philip and Toby were talking at the sports bar and Philip said he was going to propose to Kate….I sort of wished Toby would have said, I’ll like to offer you my condolences.   😝

LOL..you won the night with that remark!  Loved it, and so true.  

[himela]

Btw I haven't seen such little chemistry between a couple on TV since Joey tried to become a couple with Rachel. I was half expecting Kate to start giggling when she and Philip kissed. 😆

[CountryGirl]

After my ginormous post about Katoby, I don't have a lot to say about the rest (other than, again, thank goodness a fork has been stuck in Kevison), but we did see a little bit of Kevin and Randall and get confirmation that Randall is running for senate. I'm sure Randall will be shown to be running for president in a later 2040 FF.  Because of course we will.

We see Kevin is back to dating and not getting serious, which I know some out there will call back-sliding but he's single and so long as he's not parading his dates in front of the kids, I have no issue with this.

Sophie is there with her husband, apparently. Kevin immediately spotted her in a crowded room means something to me.

I mean, come on:

Of course, her being married changes so much and it could very well be that at the Phate wedding, they finally close that chapter of Kophie. 

While I am still holding out a tiny bit of hope for Kophie as so much could change by the time of the 2030 FF, it's equally likely that Kevin is not with anyone significant in the future, which I would be okay with, too. 

[Mrs Shibbles]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

 

I appreciated Kate telling Phillip that she had married a good man and that they loved each other very much, but it wasn't enough. Made it seem like she appreciated something about Toby. 

Imagine seeing her say that to Toby.  She could have told him that when they talked after signing the papers, and took some blame for the divorce but instead he got  a Pearson monologue dumped on him.

[Laurie4H]

7 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

While I am still holding out a tiny bit of hope for Kophie as so much could change by the time of the 2030 FF, it's equally likely that Kevin is not with anyone significant in the future, which I would be okay with, too. 

Or maybe he couldn’t settle down with a woman because he is gay or bi. Doubtful but it’s a route shows take now.  Not a good or bad thing just very woke.  Just another theory.  

I also agree we need one episode that shows how Miguel and Rebecca end up together.  I know it showed a few seasons ago that they reconnected through social media but when did they lose touch?  When did they actually meet up again?  
 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Laurie4H

[CountryGirl]

20 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

Or maybe he couldn’t settle down with a woman because he is gay or bi. Doubtful but it’s a route shows take now.  Not a good or bad thing just very woke.  Just another theory.  

I also agree we need one episode that shows how Miguel and Rebecca end up together.  I know it showed a few seasons ago that they reconnected through social media but when did they lose touch?  When did they actually meet up again?  
 

They lost touch after he got a job in Texas where is where his kids were also located.

Spoiler

Episode 15 is supposed to be all things "Miguel," the title included.

 

[Empress1]

26 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

While I am still holding out a tiny bit of hope for Kophie as so much could change by the time of the 2030 FF, it's equally likely that Kevin is not with anyone significant in the future, which I would be okay with, too. 

I don’t care who Kevin ends up with (Madison has never done anything for me and I think they should put a pin in Sophie - they’ve tried their whole lives and it hasn’t worked) and would actually prefer that he stays single as I think it would show the most growth, but it’s been pointed out that he’s wearing a ring at the deathbed scene so he must end up with someone. (I think the actor has said in interviews that there’s someone.)

22 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

I also agree we need one episode that shows how Miguel and Rebecca end up together.  I know it showed a few seasons ago that they reconnected through social media but when did they lose touch?  When did they actually meet up again?  

They lost touch when he moved to Houston, so like 1999 or 2000.

[JudyObscure]

30 minutes ago, himela said:

Btw I haven't seen such little chemistry between a couple on TV since Joey tried to become a couple with Rachel. I was half expecting Kate to start giggling when she and Philip kissed. 😆

You reminded me of a last season episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show where she and Mr. Grant, both sick of being single, go on a trial date and during their first kiss both burst out laughing.

[CountryGirl]

39 minutes ago, himela said:

Btw I haven't seen such little chemistry between a couple on TV since Joey tried to become a couple with Rachel. I was half expecting Kate to start giggling when she and Philip kissed. 😆

I do see chemistry there.

[OpalNightstream]

2 hours ago, bybrandy said:

1) You are unlikely to know in a 2 minute clip if she has diabetes or heart issues because you don't get a giant badge that says, "I have diabetes and heart issues" both diabetes and heart issues are treatable and Kate could have those and be controlled on medication that you wouldn't see her take in a 2 minute clip.  

 

2) she might well have gotten to her 60s without severe diabetes or heart issues.  Not all fat people are unhealthy.   

 

I think Kate is more than just “fat”. She’s morbidly obese and the odds of making it to that age and still (appearing) to be as healthy as that snippet portrayed doesn’t seem all that plausible. 

[Nancybeth]

Of COURSE Phillip has a tragic backstory and OF COURSE only the love of the delightful Kate Pearson, member of the wonderful magical Pearson family, can fix him. I don't buy it. I don't buy any of this. 

Phillip wasn't just a grumpy coworker -- he is her BOSS. She literally just called him and asked that he consider her for a job! In what world is any of this appropriate? And frankly, given the relative speed in which she and Phillip got together (admittedly we don't know how much time passed between the karaoke scene and the first date) I don't imagine that Toby would be okay with it because he would have to at least suspect there was some infidelity at play. 

I would have liked to see Kate struggle a little bit as a single mom and not go easily from one relationship to another. I mean, the stress of a marriage ending and solo parenting 50% of the time, along with her mom's illness -- those are huge stressors. Maybe that could have been a way to connect her storyline with Rebecca's after Jack's death and draw parallels, versus having her be the valedictorian of divorce.

It just feels like we are careening towards the finale and there is so much retconning going on to cram these storylines together and keep all the "mysteries" alive and keep viewers guessing. I've seen comments that some of this was due to COVID and having to revamp schedule and existing plans but there is so much that has to come together in the next 6 (?) episodes. 

[3 is enough]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

It is not that unusual to have someone struggle getting pregnant the first go-round but be able to get pregnant more easily the second time as the body remembers what to do. The same is true with secondary infertility where couples have zero issues having their first baby and then are blindsided when it comes to trying to have baby #2. 

🙋‍♀️ I can attest to this.  Baby number 1 came after 3 years of various fertility treatments.  When she was a year old we started trying for #2 because we didn't know when or if it would happen again and he was born near her 2nd birthday.  Two years later we had our "surprise" number 3.

Also, how many people have become pregnant after adopting? 

I am not at all surprised about Madison's pregnancy.

Also, I really was touched when Toby started to explain American football to Phillip.  Opened the door for a good co-parenting relationship.  And as seen in the future when he accepted the spur of the moment dinner invitation, they ended up being comfortable with each other.

Edited April 13, 2022 by 3 is enough

[Empress1]

Just now, 3 is enough said:

Also, how many people have become pregnant after adopting? 

I am not at all surprised about Madison's pregnancy.

I know a couple that couldn’t conceive, adopted, and then basically immediately conceived - their kids are seven months apart (which was hell on them when the kids were little).

[MaggieG]

I did appreciate the small moment of laughter in the elevator when "I will always love you" was playing. 

[CdrJanny]

22 minutes ago, OpalNightstream said:

I think Kate is more than just “fat”. She’s morbidly obese and the odds of making it to that age and still (appearing) to be as healthy as that snippet portrayed doesn’t seem all that plausible. 

I don't give a rat's patoot that some people think morbid obesity is physically healthy.  I think that's just whistling past the graveyard.

I think those people who think morbid obesity is healthy and doesn't limit mobility should strap 70 to 100 pounds of weight on their bodies and try to go about their daily routine.  

As someone who is "normal" obese (40 pounds over desired weight), I can barely walk, bend, or climb stairs without triggering a COPD episode. I imagine that there are great blobs of fat clogging my arteries and coating my heart and other organs. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Chrissie Metz dies a sudden death in a few years 

 

[tennisgurl]

Why am I not surprised that Toby actually called Kate on her wedding day just to boost her ego and tell her that she was right about everything all along? I just found this episode so depressing, Toby was so miserable as the divorce loomed over them while Kate was in full "thank you, next" mode the second he left the house, dating Cute Brit right away, talking about how great she feels now that Toby's not around, being super Zen about their marriage being over and how "their story isn't over" just because their marriage is over, no wonder she was late to therapy, she was clearly checked out of this marriage way before they actually started signing papers. She was practically skipping while Toby looked like he was on the verge of a breakdown until the ending montage. I am glad that he at least had a meet cute with another woman, who will hopefully be less of a selfish ass than Kate, and that he seems to be doing a lot better by the time Kate gets married again, but its really all just in the service of Kate getting to be right again about this divorce being for the best.

Why am I also not surprised that Cute Brit has a ridiculously tragic backstory about his blind wife leaving him due to fertility issues and then immediately getting hit by a drunk driver? He has also apparently gotten a personality transplants at some point, being a total dick when we first met him but is now prince charming as soon as he falls for Kate, manic pixie Pearson that she is. Also, is no one going to bring up the fact that he's her boss? That she already had something of a friendship with him when he hired her for her dream job? Isn't that a big conflict when it comes to hiring someone? With her lack of teaching credentials and limited professional experience working with special needs kids, I can only assume she got the job because the guy already liked her due to her Pearson specialness. How is dating and even marrying an employee in any way appropriate? 

It would have been hilarious if, when Cute Brit told Toby he was proposing to Kate, he bought him a stiff drink and was all "good luck buddy" before recommending that he grow a mustache and become a passionate football fan. Got to remind Kate of her dad if he wants this marriage to work.

Edited April 13, 2022 by tennisgurl

[HelloooKitty]

Has Philip been played by the same actor the entire time or has it changed since his first appearance?

[bichonblitz]

13 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Sophie was at a table across the room at the engagement party; we don't see her actually talk to anyone.

So Sophie stays buddies with Kate so much that she gets invited to Kates second big day? That's a little far fetched, no? We didn't need to see Sophie at all.  

I don't mind that Kevin was still serial dating. Look at Warren Beatty and George Clooney. They all eventually settle down and have kids. Men can take their sweet time and then settle down and still be able to pro-create. Sigh.