S06.E12: Katoby

[Crs97]

I just read a recap that made sure we understand Toby is mean and Kate is a victim, and so I wonder what show they are watching.

I know people who dealt with infertility, yet once they were able to have their first baby they were able to have more.  It seemed to happen with friends right after they adopted, too.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I hope Toby found a better local job. That one looked awful (for him). He needs a community.

[Cheyanne11]

14 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

...and because it cannot be said enough, SHOW, I want a  FULL Rebecca and Miguel love story episode before this show is through...You've had six years, don't let it be like the smoke monster on Lost.

We're lucky there's only a handful of episodes left or we'd get a full episode on Philip's blind, dead wife. 

[LexieLily]

2 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I hope Toby found a better local job. That one looked awful (for him). He needs a community.

Presumably Toby is still in LA post-divorce because of Jack and Hailey, but that house he moved into after the beige apartment (the one where he showed Kate how he set up Jack's room mostly in the same layout that was at hers) looked a lot like the house Toby looked at for all of them in San Francisco. Am I wrong?

[anniebird]

I'm definitely in the minority here but I thought this was one of the best episodes in a long, long time. Things actually happened that moved the story along, Toby finally told Kate the truth, that his biggest sin is that he's not Jack Pearson, and we got a glimpse into the future. I've been watching this season just because I've invested so much in this show I wanted to see it through to the end but I thought this episode paid off. 

[30 Helens]

At least someone finally acknowledged the Jack-sized elephant in the room.

Philip to Kate: “You make me happy.” BWAHAHAH… oh, he was serious? Eh, he’s new. Give him time.

Are we finally done with Kate and Toby episodes, please? There are other characters on the show. 

[SunnyBeBe]

So, did Philip’s wife get hit by a car as a pedestrian?  He did say she was blind, right? I figured she wouldn’t be driving.  

[30 Helens]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

He did say she was blind, right? I figured she wouldn’t be driving.  

I believe he said she was in a cab. 

[Manda317]

I don’t have anything against Phillip, I just don’t see him with Kate. It just doesn’t fit. Maybe as I see more I’ll get it, but I’m not going to hold my breath. Tbh, I don’t understand why they didn’t put Kate with the neighbor if they really wanted to breakup Kate and Toby. They are actually close and he likes the kids (at least Jack). I could see them growing closer as her and Toby grew apart.

After seeing the entire story of the divorce play out, I don’t think anybody really looks bad. They both made mistakes, but honestly they just grew apart and made themselves miserable trying to pretend they didn’t. I get Toby’s desire to have a job that fulfills him and provides a very comfortable income. The biggest mistake that Toby made is not bothering to show Kate that there would be opportunities for her to continue the work she loved in SF. There has to be schools that Kate could work at there that would provide her the same fulfillment. That isn’t something that is specific to LA. 
 

In the end, I have to say that I would make Kate’s decision to stay in LA. She said two things that brought me to her side, especially since Toby admitted there was a job in LA that would allow them to pay their bills: Haley has family close and Rebecca is there. Those are two very important things that aren’t in SF, and Kate doesn’t know how long Rebecca has left. I agree with other posters that Jack would adapt to living in a new place, so that isn’t as big of an issue as Kate was making it, and more money is a benefit for Jack. Kate would have been more honest if she said LA is where she is most comfortable with her friends and family and she would have a hard time adapting. 

I kind of wish that Toby didn’t leave his job to try and save the marriage because it just made him miserable and it really affected his ability to be a parent. It doesn’t matter if you spend more time with your kids if that time isn’t making anybody happy. Quantity is important, but so is quality. The marriage was over, so he could have just kept his job until at least a better option in LA came up.

[Straycat80]

I really hope we get the story of how Rebecca and Miguel got together and their love story. Miguel has always gotten the short end of the stick. 

[bybrandy]

I also would have preferred and more easily bought Kate with the next door neighbor.  They were friendly and liked each other and did things together and he likes Jack...   

[buttersister]

Quote

"Boba Fett fell in the toilet, you guys have to stop yelling now and get him out." 😢

Highlight of the episode. Hoping it won't also be the highlight of the season.

Sorry, I'm not Team Kate. Maybe Toby's oh-so-accurate comment about not being Jack Pearson landed in a way that, after her fury over it, makes a change. But she and Phillip have no chemistry. Her brother's likely supporting her (or at least funding whatever she wants). 

Happy that Toby appears happy in the future. While he didn't come up with a good reason for them to stay married, he worked hard to take responsibility for himself. Unlike Kate.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, what was the point of portraying Philip as a total jerk to his girlfriend in the breakup scene?  Why was that important?  Did the writers want to make sure it was clear that Kate had zero interest in him?  So, there would be no question she had eyes for Phil before she dumped Toby.  And, once they hook up, they have to make him super sympathetic, so we feel Kate should hook up with him.  It’s so bizarre.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[LexieLily]

I'm still confused on the timeline. We saw little to no scenes of Kate and Phillip being friends but all of a sudden they are friendly enough that he texted her to take her out to karaoke the day her divorce was final? Was the first date with the mariachi band before or after that? When did Toby come over with the kids to find Phillip in the house?

It almost looked like they left it ambiguous as to whether or not Kate and Phillip cheated or had an emotional affair, but I doubt the show meant to do that.

Edited April 13, 2022 by LexieLily

[chocolatine]

I don't buy Kate getting together with someone who's gone through a bigger tragedy than she has. For the whole duration of the show until now, she needed to be the victim that everyone tiptoes around. We've never seen her acknowledge anyone else's trauma, not even her brothers' or mother's.

I'm glad that Toby found happiness again, but I'm furious that the show made him give up his job in SF. They should have separated after the ugly fight in the last episode without the 16 months of useless and miserable marriage counseling, into which Kate invested zero effort. They could have still done the divorce via mediation and ended up as friendly co-parents. Toby could have flown to LA every week to spend time with the kids. The future events could have played out the same without completely shitting on Toby.

I'm trying to imagine the conversation between Sophie and her husband when she told him she wanted to go to LA for Kate's engagement party. "You want me to fly all the way across the country to attend the engagement party for what will be the second marriage of your former sister-in-law? And your ex-husband, for whom you carried a torch for many years after your divorce, will also be there? Awesome, I can't wait!"

Edited April 13, 2022 by chocolatine

[bros402]

what even was this episode

1. Little Jack is the best
2. So they are getting around Kate not being a teaching by having her be a "supervisor"?
3. That was the world's worst therapist - not suggesting they spend some time alone to eat dinner until they are 18 months into therapy?
4. Why would Kate talk with Jack's teacher for 20 minutes when she knows she has an appointment? That wasn't being kind, Kate, that was torturing the teacher who just wants to go home, or grade papers, or finish a lesson plan, or sort pencils so they don't have to listen to a Pearson Speech.
5. Toby was honestly pretty close to the truth with that yelling at Kate that she is just looking for Jack.
6. am I bad if I laughed when PMJ said his wife was hit by a car and died?
7. I hope we get an episode like this for Rebecca & Miguel
8. ~6 year old Jack (or whatever age during the Philip proposal scene) was probably the worst kid casting - this show is normally pretty good at casting, but that one was a miscast.
9. I did not, and still don't buy, Kate & PMJ - especially now that she knows his history. Kate has always had to win the tragedy pissing contest.
 

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Also, the problem with doing a flashforward where you establish a couple on the show is divorced and one of them is remarrying is that there is now little purpose in investing in that couple's marriage, as we now know it is going to end, and the way it ended was really predictable.  The only thing I liked was Toby telling Kate that her biggest problem with Toby was that he was not Jack Pearson.  That was a huge truth bomb and you'll notice Kate doesn't really deny it.         

She looked great for being in her 60s.  I think the only thing they did was gray up her hair a bit.

Yeah - they should've shaken things around a bit if they wanted to have us care about the marriage... instead of devoting a few episodes to it when we knew what was going to happen.

I think that all Old Kate had was some gray hair. I'm surprised she isn't dead yet when she's maintained that weight for ~2 1/2 decades (assuming she's 60). I have to imagine Old Kate has had at least a couple of heart attacks, given her family history and her medical history.

Edited April 13, 2022 by bros402

[camom]

Quote

Were they in therapy for 16 months!? And they were still sniping at each other so visiously? 

Sorry, but if you're not making any progress after a couple of months, it's time to look for a new therapist.  What a waste of time and money.

I'm on the Toby train.  He made every compromise and Kate made none.  And she criticized every single thing he did with their kids.  They both had faults, of course, but Kate just wasn't ever willing to give an inch.

[project90]

3 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Was this the first episode with zero flashbacks to the young Big 3 or Jack?

We had whole episode of just deja before 

[ProudMary]

After this episode ended, I thought of the Entertainment Weekly interview that dropped a few days ago where someone on set was asked if we'd need to bring the tissues and she said something to the effect of, we should bring a beach towel. Was there anything in that episode that was supposed to make us cry? If there was, it sure didn't work for me and I have cried at many TIU episodes. I did some eye rolling, no tears.

I am NOT buying Philip's, "You make me happy, Kate." Why? They're on their first date! It's a visual medium--SHOW not tell! But they didn't give this supposed romance any time to develop. It all got smooshed together in one episode.

I'm glad that Toby seemed to have found a good long-term relationship but I'll be ticked off if that's all we get to see of his future happiness. He may not be a Pearson, but he has been a character on the show for six seasons. 

At least Jack has gotten his father's love for Star Wars characters. I'm happy for Toby about that! 

I agree with everyone that we'd better get the Rebecca/Miguel love story episode.

[bybrandy]

27 minutes ago, bros402 said:

I think that all Old Kate had was some gray hair. I'm surprised she isn't dead yet when she's maintained that weight for ~2 1/2 decades (assuming she's 60). I have to imagine Old Kate has had at least a couple of heart attacks, given her family history and her medical history.

Lots of heavy people make it into their 60s without having heart attacks.  Jack had a heart defect that was diagnosed before he entered the service and that there is absolutely no indication he ever had it monitored or treated.   We have no indication that Kate has a similar defect so I'm not sure that bit of family history is relevant.  

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, project90 said:

We had whole episode of just deja before 

Please do not remind me of that. 

[RachelKM]

Ugh. Thank the fucking lord for Little Jack.  That kid is a treasure. Adult Jack II is nice too. But Little Jack is the only thing that distracted me from how much I no longer gave any fucks about Kate & Toby's marriage (I'm not 100% I ever cared a lot).  I spent the whole episode that wasn't little Jack vacillating between rolling my eyes at the mad dash through a relationship to somehow suddenly get us to Kate with Phillip, trying to get a handle of the fucking timeline that bounced around like someone gave Chronos crack, and trying to figure out how in the hell there are enough episodes for Kevin to end up married in any plausible way after seeing him 4+ years into the future serial dating like he's regressed to season one.*  

As for the last bit, I have never liked the idea of Sophie being end game because they've already tried twice and it kinda makes her look more romantically dysfunctional than Kevin, which... Sweet Jesus.  But I can't see how they can cobble anything else together unless he and Cassidy dance around each other for at least another 5 years before dating.

 

*Speaking of Kevin's S1 dating life, I noted when they were listing off the his string of "faces of [product/service]" girlfriends, one was a mobile phone company.  It should have been AT&T for a nod to Milana Vayntrub (from the AT&T ads who played Sloane in S1 last seen abandoned on stage by Kevin).

Edited April 13, 2022 by RachelKM

[LexieLily]

21 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

and trying to figure out how in the hell there are enough episodes for Kevin to end up married in any plausible way after seeing him 4+ years into the future serial dating like he's regressed to season one.*  

That was an interesting choice, yeah. Are we supposed to assume that Madison and Elijah's impending engagement as of last episode regressed him to what we saw here? Did Madison and Elijah get married? They made a point to have the line that it was Elijah's baby, How much time is there usually between an engagement party and a wedding? We saw Madison in the five-year flash before tonight in her bridesmaid dress and she definitely did not appear to be heavily pregnant the way she was at Kate/Phillip's engagement. I'm still confused on all of the timeline jumps. Apparently Kevin was back on the serial dating/vapid women path as soon as Nicky and Frannie's second birthday, which I'm guessing is a few months after where we left off last episode?

Edited April 13, 2022 by LexieLily

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

Ok, I watched this and didn’t see Sophie. I need a rewatch. The actor playing Philip really sold that scene about his wife. I resent how shoehorned into this show he has been but he did a decent job. 

I didn't see Sophie either. Was she at the engagement party?

I don't think "Phillip" sold the scene.  He read off some lines that we were expected to swallow without any context or showing how this relationship developed.  I can't fathom what we are supposed to believe he sees in Kate.  And the dead wife story made me want to puke.  Such over the top storytelling.

[ProudMary]

Oh, and then Kevin brings State Farm girl to the engagement party, who actually SINGS THE JINGLE. We then go to a commercial break, where there's a full State Farm advertisement!

[twoods]

10 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

I didn't see Sophie either. Was she at the engagement party?

I don't think "Phillip" sold the scene.  He read off some lines that we were expected to swallow without any context or showing how this relationship developed.  I can't fathom what we are supposed to believe he sees in Kate.  And the dead wife story made me want to puke.  Such over the top storytelling.

Sophie was in the flash forward at the engagement party with her new husband. Kevin looked at them “sadly” and mentioned to Kate that he’s happy that she reconnected with Sophie. 
 

The dead blind wife thing wasn’t so bad to me, and sort of put into context why Phillip was a serial dater. I didn’t mind his relationship with Kate and I’m sure with more time we would have seen their buildup (especially with how someone as miserable as Kate could make anyone happy), but I do appreciate that him and Toby were cordial to each other. I’m also happy that Toby re-married, and for once Kate had a decent speech with the “this is not the end our story” by divorcing. 
Only 6 episodes left? We better get a Miguel and Rebecca backstory or I will be pissed.

 

[colorbars]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Also, the problem with doing a flashforward where you establish a couple on the show is divorced and one of them is remarrying is that there is now little purpose in investing in that couple's marriage, as we now know it is going to end, and the way it ended was really predictable.  The only thing I liked was Toby telling Kate that her biggest problem with Toby was that he was not Jack Pearson.  That was a huge truth bomb and you'll notice Kate doesn't really deny it.        

See, I'm the opposite. Knowing it ended in divorce made me a lot more interested in seeing how they fell apart because if I didn't know they ended up divorced, I definitely would have assumed they worked it out some how because that's usually the nature of television.

[EtheltoTillie]

17 minutes ago, twoods said:

left? We better get a Miguel and Rebecca backstory or I will be pissed.

 

Really they have never shown this?  How crazy!  I’m a new watcher who decided to tune in for the last few episodes out of curiosity. This is such a strange show. I tried the pilot years ago and gave up because all the flash backing and forwarding annoyed me. But I know it’s super popular, so I thought I’d check it out. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

That said Kate was just awful in those therapy scenes. No insight and just castigating the partner and smugly hoping for approval from the therapist. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[Quiet1]

So it seems that all the rest of the episodes are in the future? Kate and Phillip's wedding onward? I'll be happy not to see too much more of Kate, Phillip and Toby if that is the case but will miss young Jack. I'm glad he had that episode last week for the world to see his talent!

[ProudMary]

17 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Really they have never shown this?  How crazy!  I’m a new watcher who decided to tune in for the last few episodes out of curiosity. This is such a strange show. I tried the pilot years ago and gave up because all the flash backing and forwarding annoyed me. But I know it’s super popular, so I thought I’d check it out. 

Well, tonight's episode must have blown your brain to bits! I think many of us who've watched all six seasons had to take a beat with each new scene to figure out where it fell in the timeline. I can't even imagine what it must have been like for a newcomer to the show to try to understand what was going on. This was non-linear story telling on steroids!

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I nearly cheered when Toby said his only real crime was not being Jack Pearson.

Same here! I’ve never cared much for Toby but he was 100% spot on there. Best part of the episode IMO.

Wait, I take that back… the best part was having no Big 3 flashbacks.

[CarpeFelis]

6 hours ago, weightyghost said:

Kate is a miserable human being. Even on her wedding day "something will go wrong!" Like geez.

I didn’t take it that way. I thought she was being realistic. It’s almost guaranteed that at any wedding some things will go wrong (often little things that don’t really matter much, occasionally big ones) because life just isn’t perfect. The really miserable human beings are the bridezillas who expect everything to be absolutely perfect and pitch a fit if it isn’t. So, much though I don’t like Kate, I can’t fault her for that statement.

Edited April 13, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[PepSinger]

Kate literally got everything she wanted. I hated that Toby gave up his job in SF only for it to all end in divorce. It especially pissed me when Kate said she had her “dream job” while she knows that Toby hates his new job, but she doesn’t care. Kate gave up NOTHING to make her marriage work, which says to me that she thought Toby was 100% of the problem. It may have been cruel, but Toby was right that Kate wants a husband like Jack Pearson. She knows it’s true. What kills me is that Toby was forced to not only pay the mortgage on the house, but he also had to pay to rent an apartment while making less money than he was in SF! I also don’t buy that Toby needed to move to LA to be a better dad. The issue with his parenting was that Kate didn’t like it.

Like others, I had whiplash from this episode. The writing for Phillip has been atrocious and non-existent. The story about his first wife was so overkill that I scoffed. That was elementary school writing to make us sympathize with a character they failed to develop. Also, Kate and Philip have ZERO chemistry. I was embarrassed for the actors whenever they had to be romantic. Kate is such a sad sack, and Phillip thinks he can find HAPPINESS with her?! Unless Kate received a personality transplant, I don’t think so.

Last week’s episode, this episode, and next week’s episode have focused solely on Kate. Why in the hell is Kate taking over the show? I resent all of the focus being on her and her marriages for 4 out of 5 (including next week’s) episodes. Spread the wealth, show.

[LexieLily]

3 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Kate literally got everything she wanted. I hated that Toby gave up his job in SF only for it to all end in divorce. It especially pissed me when Kate said she had her “dream job” while she knows that Toby hates his new job, but she doesn’t care. Kate gave up NOTHING to make her marriage work, which says to me that she thought Toby was 100% of the problem. It may have been cruel, but Toby was right that Kate wants a husband like Jack Pearson. She knows it’s true. What kills me is that Toby was forced to not only pay the mortgage on the house, but he also had to pay to rent an apartment while making less money than he was in SF! I also don’t buy that Toby needed to move to LA to be a better dad. The issue with his parenting was that Kate didn’t like it.

Like others, I had whiplash from this episode. The writing for Phillip has been atrocious and non-existent. The story about his first wife was so overkill that I scoffed. That was elementary school writing to make us sympathize with a character they failed to develop. Also, Kate and Philip have ZERO chemistry. I was embarrassed for the actors whenever they had to be romantic. Kate is such a sad sack, and Phillip thinks he can find HAPPINESS with her?! Unless Kate received a personality transplant, I don’t think so.

I don't know why Kate even suggested couples counseling after Toby gave up the amazing San Francisco opportunity for her, when she clearly had both feet out the door of the marriage before they even started one session. She very well might have had to talk to Jack's teacher about Something Very Important that day but her being late for a counseling session, even just one, without calling to give Toby and/or the therapist a heads up, told Toby and the audience what she intended to get out of the sessions. 

Toby's reluctance to go through with the divorce two days before signing the papers bothered me for the 'I'm doing better with the kids, they see it, don't you see it?' Toby was never a bad father, Kate. The only reason he wasn't physically around during the Jack/Hailey toddler years was because he spent four days a week in San Francisco because he needed a job. And the show never, ever gave a legitimate reason for Kate and the two kids not to move to San Francisco with him. Jack was barely a year and a half when Toby first made the move; they could have easily gone with him. LA to San Fran. is not that far by plane, Kate could see Rebecca two or three times a month if she wanted/needed to. 

[Dowel Jones]

I guess Kate is going to have to edit her phone contacts now.  That's all I got.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

We're lucky there's only a handful of episodes left or we'd get a full episode on Philip's blind, dead wife. 

A fan saw first week of May is Miguel's episode so hopefully more of him and Rebecca, moving to Texas etc.

The week AFTER wedding is called ""The Night Before the Wedding" PLEASE don't let it be Kate's wedding. 3 weeks of this wedding? Let it be Kevin's, anyone's but hers. How much more can they drag it out unless we have to see who Kevin slept with and they can't fit it in the wedding day with all the hullabaloo.

Edited April 13, 2022 by debraran

[absnow54]

2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Toby's reluctance to go through with the divorce two days before signing the papers bothered me for the 'I'm doing better with the kids, they see it, don't you see it?' Toby was never a bad father, Kate.

I almost threw something at the TV when Kate implied Toby did something wrong, because Hailey, a toddler, cried at bedtime. Yesterday, my toddler sobbed until he was red in the face because I peeled the wrong banana, even though it was the banana he’d picked out. Chill, Kate.

Speaking of the kids, I think the timeline was especially hard to follow, because they’d say they’d been in therapy for 16 months, but Hailey and Jack were still the same age. It’s hard to fudge the numbers when the actors are that young. And how was Hailey turning 2 after the divorce? Shouldn’t she have been 2 before? Or was the party the weekend after they signed the papers?

[gameshowjunkie]

8 hours ago, Eliot said:

Did I hallucinate, or was there a flash forward many, many seasons ago that showed Toby in bed in a dark room sobbing? Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

That was when Rebecca was presumably on her deathbed. IIRC Toby was alone in bed sans wedding ring. But he was apparently happily married to the yogurt woman for a while. Maybe she dies later.

[gameshowjunkie]

What is wrong with me that I was rooting for Kate and Toby in the few nice moments they had last night? I don't even like Kate and I know how the relationship ends. I feel very manipulated. Possibly because I am in a long-term marriage that has gone through many challenges and at times we bicker the way they do and I am rooting for myself? Hearing someone else snipe at each other is really tough. I think the writing was really strong in those scenes.

I don't buy the Phillip transformation or that relationship either. I think it added nothing. 

I was so happy for Toby when he met the parfait woman. Also when he found another house. Between the depressing office and depressing house I was feeling terrible for him. He gave up the great job and gorgeous SF apartment for nothing in the end. But apparently his life does get better. It's pretty realistic with divorce- the same income now has to support two households, and something's gotta give.

Bobba Fett in the toilet- oh no! Love it. Little Jack is the best.

Next week looks like it's gonna be rough. Unhappy that it's yet another Kate centered episode, but looked like we'll be getting a lot of Rebecca and Miguel too. I still remember how hostile the kids seemed to Miguel in the beginning and it never made sense based on the timeline. It would be one thing if they cheated while Jack was alive but there was a significant gap. Who wouldn't want their widowed mom to find someone who makes her happy? And from everything we have seen thus far he has been an absolutely stellar husband to Rebecca. The kids are lucky they got together.

 

[LexieLily]

16 minutes ago, gameshowjunkie said:

That was when Rebecca was presumably on her deathbed. IIRC Toby was alone in bed sans wedding ring. But he was apparently happily married to the yogurt woman for a while. Maybe she dies later.

Future Mrs. Toby Damon / Parfait Woman is alive at the time of Adult Jack Damon's show at the bar, ten to twenty years after Rebecca's deathbed at the cabin. Why didn't we see Adult Hailey at that show? 

But now we have a new possible adult to be arriving at the deathbed cabin in the ten-year flash - could Parfait Woman be included in the 'they' coming with Jack? 

Edited April 13, 2022 by LexieLily

[Chatty Cake]

I don’t see Kate and Phillip as a couple. It was a crappy thing to throw at viewers. 
Hated that Toby tried so hard for a whiny, nagging unhappy woman. Now that she’s with the pipsqueak douche she’s suddenly happy and nicer? Bullshit.

[Jeddah]

7 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Why didn't we see Adult Hailey at that show? 

I don’t know why in show world, but my guess is that in the real world it’s because they didn’t want to pay Adelaide Kane just to stand there for 30 seconds. I have a similar question though. Now that we know they’re both alive when their kids are grown, why didn’t we see Kate and Toby when Hope is born?

[Haleth]

Yeah, the sudden romance of Kate and Phillip seems forced, and seen in flashbacks it seems to have progressed too rapidly.  There is zero chemistry between the actors.  I do like that both Kate and Toby came to realize they are better apart and both found new partners.  Having all of them there for Jack's performance was lovely.  They all seemed at ease with each other which is a million times healthier for them and for the kids than the constant bickering.

[LexieLily]

6 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I don’t know why in show world, but my guess is that in the real world it’s because they didn’t want to pay Adelaide Kane just to stand there for 30 seconds. I have a similar question though. Now that we know they’re both alive when their kids are grown, why didn’t we see Kate and Toby when Hope is born?

I suppose that bar scene could have happened in a window of time after Adult Jack met Lucy but before Lucy became Jack's wife/Hope was born.

[greekmom]

8 hours ago, anniebird said:

I'm definitely in the minority here but I thought this was one of the best episodes in a long, long time. Things actually happened that moved the story along, Toby finally told Kate the truth, that his biggest sin is that he's not Jack Pearson, and we got a glimpse into the future. I've been watching this season just because I've invested so much in this show I wanted to see it through to the end but I thought this episode paid off. 

I am not a Kate or Toby fan but I do agree that this episode was better than some in the past because it moved the story. 

We actually saw Kate and Phillip's relationship, the breakup/divorce and a flash in the future with adult Jack starting out.

I know that a big reason the flashbacks are used so that can utilize  Milo but enough is enough especially if you want to finish a story.

[Jeddah]

7 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I suppose that bar scene could have happened in a window of time after Adult Jack met Lucy but before Lucy became Jack's wife/Hope was born.

I think so. It definitely seemed like Jack was just starting out, so Hope being born is still a little more in the future from that. I just originally was worried since both Kate and Toby weren’t there, but now it seems like they probably are alive then.

[MissLucas]

Yeah, show - I see what you're trying to sell but I'm not buying.

• I guess when that therapist got out of her chair you'd find a sticky note on her back reading 'Please, kick me'.
• Kate and Toby bonding over mocking their therapist was in a nutshell why their relationship was doomed.
• Kevin is back to emotional speed dating? Why exactly? No other reason than prepare us for *dramatic pause* the return of Sophie!
• Speaking of Sophie - how will the writers get rid of her husband? Death by kitchen appliance? Prepare your Bingo cards, folks!
• Of course Randall runs for Senate.
• Best scene runner-up: Toby pulling a Diana and telling Kate that there was one pe(a)rson too many in their marriage.
• Best scene: Jack throwing dropping Bobba Fett into the toilet. I had to laugh at the stricken faces of his parents. Nothing a pair of rubber gloves and some rubbing alcohol can't fix. The Beskar can take it!

[Blackie]

10 hours ago, ams1001 said:

ccording to this recap it's 2032, and the bar is around 2043. Kevin's kids look to be around 10 or so in the cabin scenes.

10 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

 

That is the most depressing thing about this show: the future , 2043, looks totally boring. Unless future Little Jack is singing in some equivalent of a "period  theme" pub that are around now.  Its the future!! And Toby is there wearing an old man's cap, they haven't figured out how to grow hair 😞.

And I appreciate that they want to cast blind actors but unfortunately that had broken their usual pretty spot on casting of the kids at different ages. Chubby 6 year old Jack totally fit as Katobi's kid, but we had already seen grown up Jack who is a totally different body type.

I think the whole premise of trying to take the story into 2043 was a big fail.

 

ETA:  the worst marriage therapist ever is only after 16 months of therapy  suggesting they have a dinner alone together

Edited April 13, 2022 by Blackie
eta, clarity

[himela]

Very good episode but really sad in many ways and not sad in others.

And as a great poet in my country says, no ending comes empty handed.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by himela