S06.E12: Katoby

[chitowngirl]

Kate and Toby's relationship evolves over a few years.

[Armchair Critic]

I am not feeling Philip being warm and fuzzy. How are we supposed to be into their relationship when for the viewers it sprung out of nowhere? When he proposed I thought those were his kids, didn't realize it was Jack and Hailey.

I never was a big Toby fan but Kate is hard to live with, yet we are supposed to feel so bad for her. I don't.

[Cancun]

Twenty minutes in and I’m cringing. Who throws a giant engagement party the 2nd time? And non-family flew across the country for it? Who sings at their own engagement party? Kate was being flippant at the counseling she wanted so badly. My list will grow…

Nope, it’s too much to list all that was awful about this episode. Overall, though, most every character seemed out of character in an extra-chirpy sort of way. It was unnerving. Madison with the “Elijah you put this baby in me” line, Beth with the oysters, Randall smiling big about his donations, Kate being all-seeing in her wisdom on divorce day, on and on.

I do love Little Jack. Saved the episode.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Cancun

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, Cancun said:

My list will grow…

I do love Little Jack. Saved the episode.

I'm just typing as we go and I'll post it at the end.

Little Jack is too cute.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah…..she’ll whittle that Brit down. Lol

Kate is full of it.  Neither she nor Toby swallowed their feelings.  They ran their mouths too much. And, they seemed like they did not love each other.  

[weightyghost]

Kate is a miserable human being. Even on her wedding day "something will go wrong!" Like geez.

[Armchair Critic]

I don't think Kate will actually be happy with this new husband either, she is a downer.

[LexieLily]

Kate is alive in the future-flashes, that's the most important thing we learned tonight.

I do wonder how much of the Kate/Toby/Phillip storyline was planned out this way and how much of it was dictated by the circumstances of the episodes we lost during Covid. We're missing so, so much in the narrative here.

Edited April 13, 2022 by LexieLily

[CleoCaesar]

Shut up Kate, you selfish, miserable, sour-faced harridan. Toby gave up an amazing job, moved cities, became an involved dad, and she’s still bitching, having made ZERO compromises of any kind. I nearly cheered when Toby said his only real crime was not being Jack Pearson.

What on earth does Phillip see in this woman? There is zero reason he would ever go for her. I can’t suspend my disbelief enough for this one. I’d sooner believe Randall became a male stripper.

Was this the first episode with zero flashbacks to the young Big 3 or Jack? No wonder it was so fast-paced but also plot-heavy. This season could have eliminated them entirely and nothing would have been lost.

[greekmom]

Saw guest star Alexandra Breckenridge's name and thought maybe Sophie was the end game??!! Then a huge disappointment.

So both Madison and Sophie have husbands. Damn. Looks like poor Kevin will end up alone. Damn, I feel bad for Kev. His sister gets a second chance at love. His brother has a great partner and he gets crap.

Wow. Jack is like a little Toby (when Phillip proposed).

Toby was being unfair to Kate re: he's not Jack Pearson. Kate is being unfair to Toby re: parenting.

I have a feeling that Kate toned down the Jack Pearson idolizing when she got together with Philip. When Toby was talking about American football, Kate's dad, etc. Philip looked like he had a bit of "oh really?" face.

Little Jack continues to be the MVP overall.

Grown up flash forward of Jack starting out was nice.

Hopefully all future episode are like this one where stuff is explained cause they will never get through however many episodes to finish it off.

[Spartan Girl]

Sorry, this would have worked so much better if they spread out Phillip and Kate throughout the season instead cramming it into one episode. Even HIMYM had the sense to do that much. And giving Philip a tragic backstory of his wife getting killed by a drunk driver on the day she left him? Please. So manipulative.

While I appreciate Kate and Toby being civil to each other after the divorce and showing that it was the best thing in the long run for everyone I still feel like it was deliberately skewed to make Kate the wronged party without calling her out on her shortcomings and her role in how the marriage fell apart.

Toby ripping into her about trying to create her own version of her dad was nasty, but necessary. We have all called it out for years.

Wow we got to see them all in the future! Glad Toby finds someone else in the future too. So now we don’t have to worry about Toby looking depressed and lonely in the future.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[pianogirl73]

What was that and who thought it is what the audience wants to see? I hated everything about that episode!

[ams1001]

"Whatever it takes. As long as I don't have to move and you sacrifice all the things that are making you happy."

How long has it been since the job offer? What are the odds it's still available?

Did the retiring woman say Kate's a supervisor, not a teacher? But she has a classroom? What is she supervising? I'm confused about how this school works. (Did her nameplate say Mrs. Kate Pearson? If you keep your last name when you get married, do you still get referred to as Mrs. MaidenName? That seems odd.)

You can be polite while telling your kid's teacher that you don't have time to chat because you need to be somewhere...

I really didn't need Kate singing Chumbawumba. Or anyone, for that matter. It certainly didn't showcase her voice.

Maybe stop taking jabs at things when you're supposed to be celebrating something. Last episode they're sniping during R&M's anniversary, now it's at the kids' birthday.

I can see how kindergarten Hailey turned into adult Hailey. Not seeing grade school Jack turning into adult Jack. But apparently he took after his parents, after all. Maybe he gets into Crossfit, or whatever the It workout will be in 15 years or so.

"Boba Fett fell in the toilet, you guys have to stop yelling now and get him out." 😢

Toby needs to have a "how to behave around my kids" talk with the guy Kate's been dating long enough that he's planning to propose? Giving him a football lesson was kinda sweet. 

Nice to see a Pearson on the receiving end of a righteous speech. Poor Philip maybe-not-so-Mean Jerk. (Doing my best to keep in mind that we're jumping back and forth in time and it isn't five minutes ago that Katoby started marriage counseling.)

Little Jack: "You're both here!" I can't get enough of that little boy on my screen.

Karaoke Chumbawumba was even more painful.

"The New Big Three" turn 6.

Adult Jack: "You're both here." 💗

"I will never see it." Of course, he sees it on her wedding day. Because of course.

Three weeks in a row of Kate-focus?

 

[SunnyBeBe]

Best divorce I’ve ever seen.  Whew…..thank goodness.

[Eureka]

43 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

I am not feeling Philip being warm and fuzzy. How are we supposed to be into their relationship when for the viewers it sprung out of nowhere? When he proposed I thought those were his kids, didn't realize it was Jack and Hailey.

I never was a big Toby fan but Kate is hard to live with, yet we are supposed to feel so bad for her. I don't.

Yup, we got two sentences of backstory, no character development and no reason to like him. They’ve dragged out the Kate and Toby story, yet this episode felt so rushed with the different time lines trying to tie it all up. And the 8 yr old (or whatever) Jack looks nothing like his tiny or adult counterparts. Usually they do really well with that kind of casting. Not my favorite episode of the season.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, greekmom said:

So both Madison and Sophie have husbands. Damn. Looks like poor Kevin will end up alone. Damn, I feel bad for Kev. His sister gets a second chance at love. His brother has a great partner and he gets crap.

In the future he's wearing a ring, so it happens for him at some point.

If he cheated on Sophie when they were married and then she cheats on her husband with Kevin at the wedding.........

(And looked like Madison was pregnant, too?)

[LexieLily]

48 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

I am not feeling Philip being warm and fuzzy. How are we supposed to be into their relationship when for the viewers it sprung out of nowhere? When he proposed I thought those were his kids, didn't realize it was Jack and Hailey.

It was meant to be cute and/or endearing but given that we know absolutely nothing about Phillip before today and had never seen him interact with her children, him referring to her "germy, loud, unrefined children" during his proposal was an interesting choice. 

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

(And looked like Madison was pregnant, too?)

How long before the wedding was the engagement party? Madison didn't look obviously pregnant in the bridesmaid dress at the wedding.

Edited April 13, 2022 by LexieLily

[tennisgurl]

I am not even that big of a Toby fan, but its really hard for me not to take his side in this whole mess. Kate's just exhausting, I feel like she wont be very happy with her second husband either. She's always looking to be miserable, what a Debbie Downer. I have no idea why I should care about this guy we hardly know and his relationship with Kate. The exciting last minute nuptials between dickhead with an alleged heart of gold and a less charming Eeyore. Seriously, I am not super invested in Toby/Kate, but they've had six years to develop, and they broke them up in a couple of episodes and expect us to care about this rando? 

Toby really called it when he said his main flaw was not being Jack. Harsh, but not wrong, another reason why I feel like any marriage for Kate is doomed until she unpacks her shit. If being able to marry either your dad or a ghost was legal...

Edited April 13, 2022 by tennisgurl

[BuckeyeLou]

I have been saying for several weeks that I think Kevin ends up alone, learning to be a single Dad.  His endless stream of new girlfriends every time his family got together means he has not changed his ways as far as Romance goes.  Just love Jack(both child & adult) saying "You are Both here".  I am happy that Toby has a new love in his life, he deserves someone who does not compare him to Jack Pearson...

[Eliot]

7 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Glad Toby finds someone else in the future too. So now we don’t have to worry about Toby looking depressed and lonely in the future.

Did I hallucinate, or was there a flash forward many, many seasons ago that showed Toby in bed in a dark room sobbing? Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

Edited April 13, 2022 by Eliot

[Aileen]

4 minutes ago, Eliot said:

Did I hallucinate, or was there a flash forward many, many seasons ago that showed Toby in bed in a dark room sobbing? Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

No, he wasn’t sobbing. We saw him in bed alone when Randall called him to come to Rebecca’s deathbed. This was likely before he met ParfaitLady.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Thank god that's finally over. I hated being in that marriage almost as much as Kate and Toby did. And bonus, we'll never have to hear the portmanteau "Katoby" again. (I hope.)

Did I mishear? Were they in therapy for 16 months!? And they were still sniping at each other so visiously?  And that was the first time the therapist suggested they have dinner just the two of them? They should have fired Diane. I hope I misheard and it was only 6 months.

It was really nice of Toby to give Kate such a nice wedding present when he told her that he saw it. Plus good for him for (finally) letting it go.

So, looks like Kevin's going to hook up with someone at Kate's wedding. Guess it will be someone new? Unless Cassidy is back.

Little Jack and Hailey were too adorable. I liked Hailey excitedly reaching for Kate when Toby brought her back.

Philip's story couldn't have been more tragic. Their kiss was nice.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

In the future he's wearing a ring, so it happens for him at some point.

If he cheated on Sophie when they were married and then she cheats on her husband with Kevin at the wedding.........

(And looked like Madison was pregnant, too?)

Madison had a baby on her arm during the 6th birthday party.  I don't know if it's the same one she's pregnant with during the engagement party or if she and Elijah are having another one.  The timeline of the episode gave me whiplash.

[ams1001]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Toby really called it when he said his main flaw was not being Jack. Harsh, but not wrong, another reason why I feel like any marriage for Kate is doomed until she unpacks her shit. If being able to marry either your dad or a ghost was legal...

Hopefully she got some individual therapy in between the divorce and dating Philip.

8 minutes ago, Eliot said:

Did I hallucinate, or was there a flash forward many, many seasons ago that showed Toby in bed in a dark room sobbing? Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

That was his depression phase when he went off his meds, I think (I don't know if he was sobbing, but he was definitely spending a lot of time in bed). Though the flash forward has him ringless in (apparently) a hotel room at the time of Rebecca's imminent death. (And they seemed to make a point of showing his ringless hand when he was calling Kate on her wedding day, too.) Maybe he meets his girlfriend after that? They're together in the bar but Jack is older than he would be when they're all converging at the cabin.

Edited April 13, 2022 by ams1001

[Empress1]

4 minutes ago, Eliot said:

Did I hallucinate, or was there a flash forward many, many seasons ago that showed Toby in bed in a dark room sobbing? Or did that already happen and I just missed it?

Toby has depression. He takes medication for it. There was a point where he had a depressive episode and was in bed immobile and I think he had to get his meds reset, but that’s not the 2030 Rebecca deathbed scene. I think that scene was the first time Kate saw him in that state.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Eureka said:

Yup, we got two sentences of backstory, no character development and no reason to like him. They’ve dragged out the Kate and Toby story, yet this episode felt so rushed with the different time lines trying to tie it all up. And the 8 yr old (or whatever) Jack looks nothing like his tiny or adult counterparts. Usually they do really well with that kind of casting. Not my favorite episode of the season.

They cast another blind actor for Jack.  I'm willing to cut them a bit of slack with the casting.   

[tennisgurl]

On the plus side, with the divorce, we never have to hear the word “Katoby” ever again. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by tennisgurl

[KaveDweller]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Madison had a baby on her arm during the 6th birthday party.  I don't know if it's the same one she's pregnant with during the engagement party or if she and Elijah are having another one.  The timeline of the episode gave me whiplash.

Madison was supposed to not be able to get pregnant and the twins were a "miracle." But now she can get pregnant 5 years later? Is she meant to be much younger than Kate?

People on TV with fertility issues always end up pregnant later on when the writers want a different storyline.

[Jillybean]

The show would have us believe that (1) Toby would beg Kate to stay married after years of misery, and (2) Kate is the only woman to make Philip happy. Sorry, I'm not buying it. This was a bridge too far.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Jillybean

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Did I mishear? Were they in therapy for 16 months!? And they were still sniping at each other so visiously?  And that was the first time the therapist suggested they have dinner just the two of them? They should have fired Diane. I hope I misheard and it was only 6 months.

Yes, he said 16.

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Madison had a baby on her arm during the 6th birthday party.  I don't know if it's the same one she's pregnant with during the engagement party or if she and Elijah are having another one.  The timeline of the episode gave me whiplash.

I didn't even notice that.

 

Just now, KaveDweller said:

Madison was supposed to not be able to get pregnant and the twins were a "miracle." But now she can get pregnant 5 years later? Is she meant to be much younger than Kate?

People on TV with fertility issues always end up pregnant later on when the writers want a different storyline.

Did she say her doctor told her that or did she just assume because of her eating disorder?

[bettername2come]

Little Jack is such a good child actor. And the big one too. Not crazy about that middle one. But good on them for casting blind actors in the role, and I find it believable that Jack would go through a childhood chubby phase. 

So my big takeaway from this is that Kate lives to see Jack grow up. I'm glad about that. Since we haven't seen her at the cabin, I was concerned. The way they were styling her hair made her look more like Mandy Moore. 

I was also glad to see Miguel still alive at Kate's engagement party. I've been worried about him. 

 

[Seelouis]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

 

I didn't even notice that.

 

There was a throwaway line at the party where Madison said “Elijah, you put this baby in me so get me food” or something like that. 
 

I was so happy Toby met someone and is happily married in the future. I didn’t realize how much I wanted that for him. And in that one short meet-cute scene he and his new wife had more chemistry than Kate and Phillip, who have absolutely none. 

[debraran]

18 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

In the future he's wearing a ring, so it happens for him at some point.

If he cheated on Sophie when they were married and then she cheats on her husband with Kevin at the wedding.........

(And looked like Madison was pregnant, too?)

In the future scenes with Kevin I didn’t see ring on Sophie’s finger. Time will tell. I felt having Kevin playing the field like an 18-year-old seemed a little unseemly but they have a reason for doing it I suppose. I still from the scenes with Kevin that Alexandra filmed already and the fact that she filmed an old age make up I have a feeling she’s still going to be around in some capacity.I felt having Kevin playing the field like an 18-year-old seemed a little unseemly. Maybe later he grows up a bit?    I feel nothing for Philip and his story was so over the top sad I almost wanted to laugh but maybe I’m just tired. 
The part that made me sad was future scene with Miguel losing it as his wife slowly slips away. :(

Can Hailey talk ? Did she at any age? 

 

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, bettername2come said:

I was also glad to see Miguel still alive at Kate's engagement party. I've been worried about him. 

Yeah, sad to see Rebecca not knowing Philip's name, though.

Did I see correctly that Philip had a mustache when they were at the future bar for Jack's performance? No. Just no.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

The show would have us believe that (1) Toby would beg Kate to stay married after years of misery

I believed that because of what he said, that he didn't want to be alone and start over and be away from his kids half the time. It's not that he wanted to stay with Kate so bad, he just didn't want to have to go through the whole process of dating again and doing everything on his own instead of being part of a couple. Plus he's already divorced once, he probably didn't want to "fail" again.

[pianogirl73]

16 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Hopefully she got some individual therapy in between the divorce and dating Philip.

That was his depression phase when he went off his meds, I think (I don't know if he was sobbing, but he was definitely spending a lot of time in bed). Though the flash forward has him ringless in (apparently) a hotel room at the time of Rebecca's imminent death. (And they seemed to make a point of showing his ringless hand when he was calling Kate on her wedding day, too.) Maybe he meets his girlfriend after that? They're together in the bar but Jack is older than he would be when they're all converging at the cabin.

There was no in between. Their first hint of dating, was on the day Kate digned her divorce papers.

Edited April 13, 2022 by pianogirl73

[Jillybean]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Toby has depression. He takes medication for it. There was a point where he had a depressive episode and was in bed immobile and I think he had to get his meds reset, but that’s not the 2030 Rebecca deathbed scene. I think that scene was the first time Kate saw him in that state.

I've seen "2030" referred to before on these forums. What was the source for that info? It really appeared to me as though Rebecca's deathbed scene is more than 8 years in the future. Randall and Beth (if not Kevin) certainly looked older than 49-50.

[Cancun]

22 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

(And looked like Madison was pregnant, too?)

Yes, she said something like, “You put this baby in me, Elijah, and you will get me food(?) right now!” just before Kevin introduced State Farm girl.

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, pianogirl73 said:

There was no in between. Their first hint of dating, was on the day Kaye digned her divorce papers.

True. I couldn't really tell what the timeline was. No idea how long it took for them to get serious. 

[nilyank]

Well I am glad that Toby found love and was able to buy a nice house.

16 months and the only compromise that I saw from Kate was not talking about her job. I guess that was Kate swallowing her feeling (the only time ever).

Meanwhike, Kevin is in a even sadder state that when Toby moved into the beige post divorce apartment.

I don’t know why the show thinks I would root for Kate and Toby  breaking up and then for Kevin to get together with a married Sophie. As Pearsony as Randall could be, he and Beth are a great couple when they started the show and wihen the show ends this year, they still will  be great.

Edited April 13, 2022 by nilyank

[Quickbeam]

Ok, I watched this and didn’t see Sophie. I need a rewatch. The actor playing Philip really sold that scene about his wife. I resent how shoehorned into this show he has been but he did a decent job. 

[Jeddah]

3 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I believed that because of what he said, that he didn't want to be alone and start over and be away from his kids half the time. It's not that he wanted to stay with Kate so bad, he just didn't want to have to go through the whole process of dating again and doing everything on his own instead of being part of a couple. Plus he's already divorced once, he probably didn't want to "fail" again.

The speech definitely didn’t make me think he still loved Kate, just that it would be hard for him to start over. I momentarily felt bad for him until he kissed Kate when she clearly didn’t want him to. They’re both such awful people.

I’m glad Kate gets to watch her kids grow up. The show was making me nervous about that!

[txhorns79]

You know it is going to be a special kind of episode when I literally laughed out loud when Phillip said his first wife was immediately killed by a drunk driver within minutes of having left him.  I was just like: "It's This is Us.  Of course Phillip has some sad backstory.  In a perfect world where there was more time to tell the story, we'd probably learn that the ghost of a drunken Jack Pearson killed her to ensure Phillip could be with Kate."

Also, the problem with doing a flashforward where you establish a couple on the show is divorced and one of them is remarrying is that there is now little purpose in investing in that couple's marriage, as we now know it is going to end, and the way it ended was really predictable.  The only thing I liked was Toby telling Kate that her biggest problem with Toby was that he was not Jack Pearson.  That was a huge truth bomb and you'll notice Kate doesn't really deny it.         

Quote

I’m glad Kate gets to watch her kids grow up. The show was making me nervous about that!

She looked great for being in her 60s.  I think the only thing they did was gray up her hair a bit.

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I've seen "2030" referred to before on these forums. What was the source for that info? It really appeared to me as though Rebecca's deathbed scene is more than 8 years in the future. Randall and Beth (if not Kevin) certainly looked older than 49-50.

According to this recap it's 2032, and the bar is around 2043. Kevin's kids look to be around 10 or so in the cabin scenes.

2 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

Ok, I watched this and didn’t see Sophie. I need a rewatch. The actor playing Philip really sold that scene about his wife. I resent how shoehorned into this show he has been but he did a decent job. 

Sophie was at a table across the room at the engagement party; we don't see her actually talk to anyone.

Helps that I like Chris Geere, I guess. (The only other thing I've seen him in is A Million Little Things for a few episodes last year.)

[Katie111]

Seems like Kate went straight from Toby to Phillip, literally on the same day.  Who goes to karaoke in the morning?  That just made no sense to me.  And who is watching the kids as she’s off doing karaoke, signing divorce papers and going out for a drink with Phillip all in one day?  
 

And who is paying for that engagement party?  And how the hell does Kate all of a sudden have 200 friends?  She had 1 friend in LA for years (Madison).
 

And how nice of Phillip to invite Toby to dinner in the house that Toby pays for.  Based on the age of the kids in that scene, that didn’t seem long after the divorce.  And Toby didn’t seem surprised to see him there.  I don’t buy that their post- divorce life would ever be amicable.   Kate would still be bitching about everything Toby does, esp with the kids. 
 

How is Toby affording 2 houses in LA when he is clearly at a mid-level job? 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Katie111

[Armchair Critic]

2 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I momentarily felt bad for him until he kissed Kate when she clearly didn’t want him to.

If it was Jack Pearson, it would be considered a romantic grand gesture and the woman would be charmed and fall into his arms. 🙄😆

[KaveDweller]

31 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Did she say her doctor told her that or did she just assume because of her eating disorder?

I thought she said her doctors told her that, but it would have been second hand, so who knows.

11 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

And who is paying for that engagement party?  And how the hell does Kate all of a sudden have 200 friends?  She had 1 friend in LA for years (Madison).

Maybe they are Phillip's friends?

[ams1001]

Maybe Kevin's throwing the engagement party.

[BuckeyeLou]

The scene with Kate & Kevin, where they are both moaning about their lives, made me realize they both are looking for un-realistic "Romantic" love, they want what their Parents had, instead of having their own visions of Love & Marriage.

[stonehaven]

I hate that this show made me think way too much about a fictional couple's marriage falling aprt.

Tonight was dull 'til the flash-fowards. Kate has never been my favorite on this show. She just has NO personality or life or joy. Why would anyone root for that?

I do seem to recall the first meeting between Kate and Toby, where Toby made a joke and Kate's reply was "I don't want a fat friend" or some nasty comment like that and Toby replied "Okay, I'll guess I'll have to lose weight then".

I did notice that the laughter they had over the years was in mocking others on TV or other things. They rarely tried to build each other up. As Toby put it, they were broken when they met so they really couldn't hold together that long.

My mom has never watched a single episode and does not get why I watch this show. She decided to watch tonight and....just....didn't...get...it. She asked me "Is it always this dull? Why is Kate such a downer? Why would anyone want her? What did they do with that guy who played Randall?"

I haven't enjoyed this season much but am sticking it out til it ends. I will miss it when it goes.

....and because it cannot be said enough, SHOW, I want a  FULL Rebecca and Miguel love story episode before this show is through...You've had six years, don't let it be like the smoke monster on Lost.