S06.E08: Guitar Man

[Ana88]

Wow I cant believe I barely survived a Kevin epi. Was looking forward to this so much and Kevin is my favorite. I feel like Cassidy and Nicky stole his show though and in my mind this episode got completely sidetracked. Huge bummer. Hopefully Kate's will be better next week! 

[Haleth]

I too chuckled at the guy's reaction to Kevin's speechifying at the hospital.  I had thought maybe he didn't speak English or was deaf, but dismissing Kevin was even better.

The doctor didn't seem very concerned about Cassidy's mental state.

Nicky is the best.  Edie too for her cheerfulness in the middle of Pearson drama.

I guess I looked away when it was revealed the new Big 3 were Kevin, Cassidy, and Nicky.  That is wonderful.  Best thing Kevin has done.

2 stinky, crying infants in first class?  Worse thing Kevin has done.

Kudos to Jennifer Morrison for the hospital scene.  

[gameshowjunkie]

I forgot the cringiest part of the episode- Kevin saying TWICE "Celebrities, they're just like us, right?" Yikes. Agree that it didn't even look like first class. Agree it was insane for Kevin to try to take two babies on the flight. I've raised three kids and am really good with babies and I wouldn't attempt it. And would be very unhappy if anyone on one of my flights did.

[Rootbeer]

32 minutes ago, gameshowjunkie said:

I forgot the cringiest part of the episode- Kevin saying TWICE "Celebrities, they're just like us, right?" Yikes. Agree that it didn't even look like first class. Agree it was insane for Kevin to try to take two babies on the flight. I've raised three kids and am really good with babies and I wouldn't attempt it. And would be very unhappy if anyone on one of my flights did.

Even if he wanted to prove to himself and everyone else that he was perfectly capable of handling the twins on his own, a cross country flight was not the best idea for a first step.  No reason he couldn't have hired someone from a nanny agency to make the trip with him and the babies and then send them back to LA on the next flight.  I know regular, middle class, flying coach people who have brought along an extra to help wrangle kids on long flights.  Kevin's got the dough and it was really unfair to subject everyone else to the mayhem when they're all stuck in close proximity for hours and hours.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I watched promo for next week and Kate is saying she misses the old Toby and the show a picture of him younger and heavier. ( I forgot how much he changed and the stomach prosthesis he wore) I hope we don't get the "I liked you fat better" and it's more "I liked you here more" I've read about couples where one loses and they draw apart because one of the things they had in common, changes. It is much more complicated in their relationship but still was a shock for me to see that clip. I feel his past depression is never discussed and the fact Kate has to maintain her weight by not eating just low calorie foods is another. It's one relationship I thought had potential but they had it fall flat. I will never understand why Philip had to be.

Since Toby's weight loss is but one of the many changes and obstacles Kate and Toby have faced in the last 5 years, I think that clip is a fakeout.  Both of them are not the same person they were in 2016 when they met for good and for bad.  The writers have been throwing marriage ending type stories in their path for years now--

• Toby's heart attack
• Kate getting a job with Toby's ex-wife
• Toby going off his meds and having to restart them
• Kate's miscarriage
• IFV
• Premature baby with complications
• Toby's inability to bond with Jack
• Toby's secret weight loss using a program with a cult-like following
• Toby's emotional affair
• Toby losing his job and the emotional toll that took on him
• Both of them taking jobs without consulting the other one
• Toby taking a job that puts him away from his family

Anyone of these has the potential to break them up.  And through it all both Kate and Toby have patched things up instead of working through their issues.  You can only patch something up so many times before it falls apart.  Kate and Toby went from being on the same page to being in the same chapter to being in the same book to now being in two different books.  They can still fix their marriage, but it will take work.  

[Kip Hackman]

That was a $3,000 guitar that Kevin gave to Cassidy's son. 😲

[Good Queen Jane]

 

22 minutes ago, Kip Hackman said:

That was a $3,000 guitar that Kevin gave to Cassidy's son. 😲

In the words of Nicky to Kevin: "How much money do you have?"

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

Kevin's got the dough and it was really unfair to subject everyone else to the mayhem when they're all stuck in close proximity for hours and hours.

I'll defend Kevin a little and say that aside from the babies crying (which they may have done even if Kevin brought multiple nannies along to watch them), there was very little mayhem (at least that we saw).  The only thing I didn't like was Kevin staying overnight at the hospital for no real purpose except lesson learning (Nicky was in Cassidy's room literally minutes after Kevin was allowed in) and leaving the responsibility for his kids for that long to Edie.  I didn't think that was fair to her.   

[Blackie]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

No reason he couldn't have hired someone from a nanny agency to make the trip with him and the babies and then send them back to LA on the next flight. 

 

Are you even allowed to to fly with 2 babies /one adult? I thought for safety if kids were under 2(?) they needed an adult. What if  an emergency exit was required how could Kevin go down the chute with 2 baby carriers? 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

I know this might have been a small ER type of place but really no reference to her mental state? Even my elderly mom gets mental and physical checks when she goes to local ER for falls etc. She's a vet and it was late. They might not talk about it but they check certain things. He didn't even ask them about what might have happened previously. That part was glossed over so Nicky would be the only perceptive one but not really what happens.

I watched promo for next week and Kate is saying she misses the old Toby and the show a picture of him younger and heavier. ( I forgot how much he changed and the stomach prosthesis he wore) I hope we don't get the "I liked you fat better" and it's more "I liked you here more" I've read about couples where one loses and they draw apart because one of the things they had in common, changes. It is much more complicated in their relationship but still was a shock for me to see that clip. I feel his past depression is never discussed and the fact Kate has to maintain her weight by not eating just low calorie foods is another. It's one relationship I thought had potential but they had it fall flat. I will never understand why Philip had to be.

Yeah and wasn’t there a police investigation?  The message seemed to be just let her alone.  Just odd.

[Leeds]

 

9 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

 

Get out of my head! My comment while watching the airplane scene was, “I thought the reason people pay for first class is they don’t have to deal with this shit!” But of course everyone understood, because it’s Kevin. And I had the same reaction to the five-inch globs of paint. That was a 2-day drying process, minimum. 

When teen Kevin talked about touching the drain, my husband told me how dangerous that is: “The suction is really strong! You get sucked in and you can’t get free! People have drowned!” 
Me: “That’s ridiculous. Who do you know that has ever had that happen to them? That’s an urban legend.” 

We went back and forth, he insisting/ me mocking, until Randall said to Kevin: “That’s an urban legend.” Then I laughed and laughed and laughed…

Best part of the show.

 

Just because Randall says something doesn't make it true, even though he would like to think so.  As mentioned by another poster, there have been deaths related to swimming pool/hot tub drains.

Until airlines start imposing a minimum age for first class passengers (12 months, 5 years, 21 years?), anyone who can afford it can buy a ticket for whomever they want.  And believe me, there are plenty of so-called adults travelling first class who are more obnoxious than babies.

[Rootbeer]

32 minutes ago, Blackie said:

 

Are you even allowed to to fly with 2 babies /one adult? I thought for safety if kids were under 2(?) they needed an adult. What if  an emergency exit was required how could Kevin go down the chute with 2 baby carriers? 

I think as long as he pays for seats for them, which he did, he can take as many children as he likes, no matter what their ages by himself.  I think the airlines are not inclined to get involved in the sticky wicket of deciding how many kids are too many or how many kids one person can handle. It's only when the passenger doesn't purchase tickets for the kids and plans to hold them the whole flight that the airline steps in.  There needs to be an adult lap for every lap-child.

You're right about the difficulty of an emergency arising and having to deal with evacuating two infants emergently, but it's probably even a bigger concern for a single adult traveling with young children who can walk and talk and would have trouble leaving the plane without assistance and the adult cannot carry both of them at once.  For evacuating the plane with babies in carriers, I presume he'd be told to take them out of the carriers and perhaps another kind soul would carry one for him.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Rootbeer

[izabella]

If they wouldn't let Kevin on with two babies, then they also wouldn't let two parents on with three or four kids.  The airlines don't regulate number of adults and children.

[kili]

Quote

If they wouldn't let Kevin on with two babies, then they also wouldn't let two parents on with three or four kids.  The airlines don't regulate number of adults and children.

A friend with twins told me that there are regulations preventing two adults each with lap babies sitting beside each other. Apparently, there is only one extra oxygen mask per set of seats, so only one lap baby per set of seats. They would have to sit across the the aisle from each other or in separate rows. Perhaps that was just with some air craft. Kevin is good because he seems to have purchased a seat fo one of the babies (so, one oxygen mask apiece).

Another friend liked flying business class with her lap babies because it gave her more room. 

On the way home, the lady next to Kevin looked like she wanted to hold one of those babies.

Is Nicky's transition a little fast? He went from being barely able to get on a plane, completely out of his comfort zone in the TSA and unable to read social cues (e.g. his awkward behaviour on the trip to see his long-lost love), to being in a completely normal relationship with Edie, the life of the party and a wise sage. All in a matter of months since he left LA. I could see if he was that guy before (before Vietnam, before drinking), but he was really never that guy (he was a painfully shy, awkward, unconfident person whenever we saw him pre-war). It's like that road trip with Rebecca flipped a switch on him. 

[MissLucas]

That was my favorite episode of the season. I loved all the interaction we got from the teenage Big Three which is something that has become quite rare. And during the dinner scene it became clear that Kevin has actually built himself a family beyond the suffocating Pearson circle: Nicky, Edie, Matty and Cassidy (plus the twins). He must have come to a similar conclusion when he decided to create 'Big Three Homes' and I love it! Doesn't mean he'll end up with Cassidy. I do start to wonder if he'll remain single - it would be an unusual and daring choice for the show.

Jennifer Morrison was great - so much heartbreak . And they did a really good job to bring uncle Nicky into her story. Nicky stepping in at her big breakdown scene was a good choice. It prevented unnecessary shipping to enter the frame and it showed how much Kevin has grown because he finally realized what she needed and accepted what he could give and what not.

I did not think it odd for Kevin to hang out at the hospital - he's still a Pearson. Like others I wondered if the poor victim of his speechifying was deaf or did not speak any English. It brought some necessary humor to the episode.

And thank God Kevin gave away that guitar! He didn't need it anymore since he finally returned to painting. The scene with Matty was a nice call-back to season 1 when he talked to Annie and Tess.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, kili said:

Is Nicky's transition a little fast? He went from being barely able to get on a plane, completely out of his comfort zone in the TSA and unable to read social cues (e.g. his awkward behaviour on the trip to see his long-lost love), to being in a completely normal relationship with Edie, the life of the party and a wise sage. All in a matter of months since he left LA. I could see if he was that guy before (before Vietnam, before drinking), but he was really never that guy (he was a painfully shy, awkward, unconfident person whenever we saw him pre-war). It's like that road trip with Rebecca flipped a switch on him. 

While I do feel that Nicky's development has been rushed, I fully believe he knew Cassidy tried to kill herself.  He knew because he had been at that point many times in his life.  Him also knowing why Cassidy is a mess also tracks with his experience.  

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

That was my favorite episode of the season. I loved all the interaction we got from the teenage Big Three which is something that has become quite rare. And during the dinner scene it became clear that Kevin has actually built himself a family beyond the suffocating Pearson circle: Nicky, Edie, Matty and Cassidy (plus the twins). He must have come to a similar conclusion when he decided to create 'Big Three Homes' and I love it! Doesn't mean he'll end up with Cassidy. I do start to wonder if he'll remain single - it would be an unusual and daring choice for the show.

 

Kevin is wearing a wedding ring in the flashforward of Rebecca's deathbed.  He is not wearing one at Kate's second wedding in 2025.  Sometime between those two events he gets married.

[mostlylurking]

Per usual the episode just left me feeling super bad for Kevin (excluding the Cassidy trauma which is obviously on another level). I mean Kevin can be an ass  with the best of them don’t get me wrong, but he always apologizes and makes it right, usually in some grand way. Why does everyone else get to shit on him and NEVER apologize?  That’s just supposed to be ok because he’s Kevin and he’s rich and spoiled and apparently has no feelings. He got thrown into the pool before he was ready meanwhile Kate was literally being carried by daddy. He was harsh with Cassidy but not overly so. He was blind to what she was feeling, but maybe Nicky could have just explained it to him like a human instead of ripping him a new one. I just think everyone gets to railroad right over Kevin, but when he’s a dick no one lets him forget it. 

Things I liked:  Matty kissing the baby, Nicky dancing with Edie, all the Cassidy trauma scenes. Jennifer Morrison was really good. 

[Empress1]

21 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I do start to wonder if he'll remain single - it would be an unusual and daring choice for the show.

I wish they’d do this; it’s very rare that single people in media are depicted as happy, with full lives, and I think it would show the most growth for Kevin personally. Wealthy actor turned construction company-owner (or maybe he continues to act too), father of two, uncle of five who maybe dates sometimes, is a great life IMO. They don’t, though; as @Ohiopirate02 says, he’s wearing a ring at Rebecca’s bedside. (I’m one of the few who isn’t particularly interested in the mystery of who he ends up with.)

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Having said that, I feel like tv dramas rely a little bit too much on that trope to the point where you would almost think it was not possible for a veteran to return home without having significant emotional problems that leave them barely able to function. 

They also rely on the audience feeling nothing but unequivocal respect for veterans.  I do respect them, but it's mixed with a lot of politics, frustration and anger so I really can't  get behind a character like Cassidy without being taken out of the show.

It was a worst ever episode for me.  My favorite part was the male model in the Audi commercial.

[marceline]

13 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Kevin was really relying on others to take care of his twin infants when he volunteered to stay at the hospital overnight and into the morning.  No telling when the babies might wake up and need attention.  God bless Edie.

She wasn't just with the twins. Cassidy's son was there too. So Kevin and Nicky took off and Edie was left alone with two infants and a 12-year old whose mother is in the emergency room. (I'm guessing Matty's age here.)

Kevin on the flight just worked my nerves. He has the resources to travel in a way that would've spared all that drama but because he had something to prove he chose the most difficult option.

[voiceover]

Loved the ep; first one I’ve really enjoyed since year 3 (when I quit watching, only to tap back in this spring to say goodbye).

Throw your hand up if you knew the song that was title and theme for last night.  I was surprised by how well “Guitar Man” fit this hour, and Kevin’s epiphany: 

Somethin' keeps him goin'
Miles and miles a day
To find another place to play

Justin actually looked better than he has in awhile; loved the teen flashback; loved Kevin reuniting with Jack’s best hidden love, and drawing again, and just being in the waiting room for Cassidy.  Even if it was just to prove to himself he could do it.

And a David Gates & Bread shout-out!  

[Lovecat]

4 hours ago, gameshowjunkie said:

I forgot the cringiest part of the episode- Kevin saying TWICE "Celebrities, they're just like us, right?" Yikes. Agree that it didn't even look like first class. Agree it was insane for Kevin to try to take two babies on the flight. I've raised three kids and am really good with babies and I wouldn't attempt it. And would be very unhappy if anyone on one of my flights did.

Oh, but the dude who goes "You said that already.  Also, I don't know who you are." got a round of applause here in the 'cat house.  Manny say whaaaaaaat??

Just want to throw some props Teen Kevin's way.  I know we marvel all the time about the great casting on this show, but Logan Shroyer *really* has Justin Hartley pegged--his speech cadence, little tongue clicks...it's remarkable.

[Blakeston]

Of the many stupid things that Kevin said in this episode ("Celebrities - they're just like us!"), the stupidest one had to be when he claimed that having Matty around would give the twins someone to play with.

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, Lovecat said:

Just want to throw some props Teen Kevin's way.  I know we marvel all the time about the great casting on this show, but Logan Shroyer *really* has Justin Hartley pegged--his speech cadence, little tongue clicks...it's remarkable.

There was one bit in the pool, I forget what he even said (or if it was even an actual word) but if I hadn't been looking at the screen I might have thought it was adult Kevin.

4 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Of the many stupid things that Kevin said in this episode ("Celebrities - they're just like us!"), the stupidest one had to be when he claimed that having Matty around would give the twins someone to play with.

Well, Matty seems to like the twins so he probably would play with them but I wouldn't assume a kid his age would want to.

Edited March 16, 2022 by ams1001

[Cheyanne11]

11 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

My comment while watching the airplane scene was, “I thought the reason people pay for first class is they don’t have to deal with this shit!” But of course everyone understood, because it’s Kevin. 

I did like the guy telling him "yeah, you already said that" and "I don't know who you are" to Kevin's "hey, celebrities--they're just like us!" schtick.

Kate's "yeah, well" at Kevin saying he wished he was a good guitarist was the best line of the night.  Chrissy had the best delivery of it.

[jalady]

Was that the same child actor playing kid Kevin at the pool?  He looked different to me.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, jalady said:

Was that the same child actor playing kid Kevin at the pool?  He looked different to me.

The show has shifted their flashbacks to 1985-1986 and cast a new set of child actors to play the Big 3.  The ones from the first few seasons are now teenagers.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:55 AM, marceline said:

She wasn't just with the twins. Cassidy's son was there too. So Kevin and Nicky took off and Edie was left alone with two infants and a 12-year old whose mother is in the emergency room. (I'm guessing Matty's age here.)

I was thinking that as long as Matty was awake when the twins woke up (doubtful), he would have been a willing pair of helping hands since he seemed to like them, and they would have been a welcome diversion from worrying about his mother. Still, one or both twins might have been terrified to be left with a stranger, and Edie might not be a natural with diaper changes, figuring out their dietary preferences, and keeping them safe and occupied for an extended amount of time. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[himela]

Kevin is learning how to be a father --> I don't care

Cassidy needs urgently to see a therapist --> I don't care

What this episode left me with ---> disappointment and boredom

[Leeds]

 

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

They also rely on the audience feeling nothing but unequivocal respect for veterans.  I do respect them, but it's mixed with a lot of politics, frustration and anger so I really can't  get behind a character like Cassidy without being taken out of the show.

It was a worst ever episode for me.  My favorite part was the male model in the Audi commercial.

Yes.  I'm sorry but not all veterans deserve respect.

[himela]

4 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

 

In the words of Nicky to Kevin: "How much money do you have?"

Apparently not that much because poor Madison has to drive herself crazy having vomit on her hair for hours because they can't get a nanny to help her. 😶

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Well, Matty seems to like the twins so he probably would play with them but I wouldn't assume a kid his age would want to.

I think all of the adults at the cabin would have been willing to interact with the twins. But Kevin acted like Matty would be a peer for them to play with. Which got him some (well-deserved) mockery from Kate and Randall.

I've seen adults do that before - assume that any children will be be happy to play together if you put them in the same place, regardless of major age differences.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, himela said:

Apparently not that much because poor Madison has to drive herself crazy having vomit on her hair for hours because they can't get a nanny to help her. 😶

When Kevin was talking about his plans in the beginning of the episode, he told his coworker that he was giving their nanny some time off during the show's (Christmas??) break.  So there is a nanny employed by at least Kevin.  I can't imagine Kevin not sharing the nanny with Madison.  She did mention to Kevin back when she told him she was pregnant that she was willing to go it alone raising the kids.  I guess she truly did mean it.

[marceline]

8 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I did like the guy telling him "yeah, you already said that" and "I don't know who you are" to Kevin's "hey, celebrities--they're just like us!" schtick.

Six years in and I still can't figure out just how famous Kevin is supposed to be. So famous that when he and Madison got engaged it ended up on the cover of People or US Weekly, he starred in a film with Stallone, walked off the set of another film, and now he's on the Manny reboot. Given how famous he is (sometimes) at least half the plane would've whipped out their phones to get pics and video of him fumbling with his kids. Of course even if he wasn't famous somebody would tweet out a picture and ask "I paid for first class for THIS?"

 

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

They also rely on the audience feeling nothing but unequivocal respect for veterans.  I do respect them, but it's mixed with a lot of politics, frustration and anger so I really can't  get behind a character like Cassidy without being taken out of the show.

I agree with you on the general point but what I do appreciate about Cassidy's story is that it shows that mental illness is not a "one and done" thing. (Is PTSD considered mental illness? If not, I apologize for the mischaracterization.) As someone who has dealt with depression for most of my adult life, I could really relate to Cassidy wanting to live in that last happy memory. I also remember how my own suicidal ideation snuck up on me.

It was while I was driving. It was my evening commute. I was on the highway, it started to turn and suddenly I thought "What if I don't turn the steering wheel? What if I just drive into the barrier?" That's when I realized I needed help.  And I didn't have the added complication of military service. 

We've all pointed out the flaws in this ep but I thought that scene was well done and I hope it will help others. It helped remind me how far I've come since that day in my car.

Edited March 17, 2022 by marceline

[suzeecat]

57 minutes ago, himela said:

Kevin is learning how to be a father --> I don't care

Cassidy needs urgently to see a therapist --> I don't care

What this episode left me with ---> disappointment and boredom

I'm beginning to feel like the writers closed down this series already and are just feeding us this blather so they can give us any old series finale and we won't care and be fine however it ends because, by that point, nobody really WILL care.  It's working.  At this point, I don't really care how this all ends.  Every episode is just more disappointing "filler". 

[One Imaginary Girl]

2 hours ago, marceline said:

She wasn't just with the twins. Cassidy's son was there too. So Kevin and Nicky took off and Edie was left alone with two infants and a 12-year old whose mother is in the emergency room. (I'm guessing Matty's age here.)

The whole time Kevin was at the hospital, I was talking to the TV: "The twins.  What about the twins?"  I think I was more concerned about them than he was.  Instead of that long speech to the guy in the waiting room, that episode time would have been better spent showing him asking Edie to mind the babies and explaining what supplies he had, and then the next morning he could have called the cabin and checked in.  It'd be a better comment on what kind of father he's becoming to demonstrate how he'd balance things.

[Beezella]

14 minutes ago, marceline said:

I thought "What if I don't turn the steering wheel? What if I just drive into the barrier?" That's when I realized I needed help. 

Your comment literally gave me chills. I am glad it frightened you in the right way.

[tennisgurl]

The real hero was that guy at the hospital who's response to another long rambling Pearson speech was just "I'm just waiting for my wife" before probably joining the support group for random people that get dragged into random Pearson drama and have to listen to their speeches about things that no one other than them care about. That was hilarious, not even the possible near death of a close friend can stop a speech, Pearson's gonna Pearson. 

Kevin is my favorite of the Big Three, so while I was happy to get an episode focused on him, even if I wish we had a bit more forward momentum. I know that this is a show that is much more character driven than plot driven, but I would like a little bit more so close to the end. There is still so much to wrap up, especially now that they decided to do one of their Big Three Trilogies. I feel bad for Kevin, I feel like both the other characters and the narrative itself is too hard on him. Compared to Randall and Kate he gets a lot more speeches calling him out on his issues rather harshly and the narrative often frames him as being in the wrong in almost any conflict he's involved in, when I don't think that's fair. Kevin has a lot of flaws and makes a lot of mistakes, but not any more than Randall and Kate, who the narrative is usually easier on, despite Kevin being the Pearson who is the most aware of his flaws and is working the hardest to overcome them. or like the fight between him and Madison about Thanksgiving, everyone was acting like he was the jerk for wanting to spend Thanksgiving with the twins but to me he had every right to be upset about Madison making that choice without him, and I felt similarly about Nicky's speech to him. Yes Kevin was a jerk to Cassidy, but its not his fault he couldn't tell that she was depressed, I couldn't really tell, Cassidy is just a low key person. Since Nicky better knows what she is going through, he should have been the one who caught it, not Kevin. Maybe he was projecting his own guilt? Of course, that might be why Kevin is my favorite Pearson, the show being harsher on him means he has grown more as a character, even when he messes up and cringes it up. "Celebrities, they're just like us"? Oh Kevin...

That being said, I mostly really liked having Uncle Nicky around, him giving Cassidy the contact for the VA therapist really shows how much he has grown. Plus his relationship with Edie is still adorable, one of the best couples on this show. Jennifer Morrison was really great, I have always liked her a lot and I am glad to see her getting so much meaty material in a big show.

The scene in the pool with the teenage Big Three was definitely the best scene of the episode, probably of the season. We don't get a whole lot of the post Jack teen Big Three, and when they are together they're usually fighting, so it was great to see the three of them bonding. I love all three teens, but I think the actor who plays young Kevin is the best at seeming like adult Kevin. He does that jerky head shake that adult Kevin does so well. 

[Rammchick]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

When Kevin was talking about his plans in the beginning of the episode, he told his coworker that he was giving their nanny some time off during the show's (Christmas??) break.  So there is a nanny employed by at least Kevin.  

My take on that was that Kevin was bigging himself up for the benefit of his coworkers.  I really don't think there is a nanny, at least based on everything we've seen so far.

56 minutes ago, marceline said:

Six years in and I still can't figure out just how famous Kevin is supposed to be. So famous that when he and Madison got engaged it ended up on the cover of People or US Weekly, he starred in a film with Stallone, walked off the set of another film, and now he's on the Manny reboot. 

Or how much money he could have.  That was going through my mind when he was going to buy the land for the Big Three company to develop.  Granted, he was and is on a TV show, and that's pretty lucrative, but he has a failed movie career.  That sly little smile he gave when he talked about hiring the vets for the new company made it seem like he must have tens, if not hundreds, of millions, and that didn't seem right under the circumstances.

6 hours ago, Kip Hackman said:

That was a $3,000 guitar that Kevin gave to Cassidy's son. 😲

What was it?  I normally notice that, but the fact that it was so painfully out of tune the whole time made me block it out.

[Leeds]

57 minutes ago, marceline said:

 

I agree with you on the general point but what I do appreciate about Cassidy's story is that it shows that mental illness is not a "one and done" thing. (Is PTSD considered mental illness? If not, I apologize for the mischaracterization.) As someone who has dealt with depression for most of my adult life, I could really relate to Cassidy wanting to live in that last happy memory. I also remember how my own suicidal ideation snuck up on me. It was while I was driving. It was my evening commute. I was on the highway, it started to turn and suddenly I thought "What if I don't turn the steering wheel? What if I just drive into the barrier?" That's when I realized I needed help.  And I didn't have the added complication of military service. 

We've all pointed out the flaws in this ep but I thought that scene was well done and I hope it will help others. It helped remind me how far I've come since that day in my car.

I'm so happy you found that strength to make the choice you did.

Yes, PTSD is considered a mental illness.  The lack of appropriate treatment is an unfortunate example of what, if any, mental health therapy is available to most of us.

[BC4ME]

19 minutes ago, Rammchick said:

What was it?  I normally notice that, but the fact that it was so painfully out of tune the whole time made me block it out.

He said when he first started trying to play it that it was the guitar Bradley Cooper used on "A Star is Born" so it's probably worth a lot of money regardless of the quality. But it would be surprising if it wasn't supposed to be decent quality given where it came from.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I mean Kevin can be an ass  with the best of them don’t get me wrong, but he always apologizes and makes it right, usually in some grand way. Why does everyone else get to shit on him and NEVER apologize?  That’s just supposed to be ok because he’s Kevin and he’s rich and spoiled and apparently has no feelings. He got thrown into the pool before he was ready meanwhile Kate was literally being carried by daddy.

I am on board with the idea that Kevin never gets the apologies he deserves (looking at you, Randall 'dad died ashamed of you' Pearson), but my recollection of the pool scenes was that Kevin begged his dad to be in the pool, to let him jump off the board - which 100% would have resulted in something even more scary. Kevin has always been shown to be a willful child; IMO the only way to convince him that he was not ready for the deep end was to show him. Jack was right there and Kevin was never really in danger of drowning, and he learned the lesson he needed to.

[Kip Hackman]

28 minutes ago, Rammchick said:

What was it?  I normally notice that, but the fact that it was so painfully out of tune the whole time made me block it out.

Gibson J-45

[Sheggy50G]

So this was all about Kevin - and his pipe dream. First, when he was a kid, it was to touch the drain. Then, he wanted to play football. Then it was off to acting. Now he is picking up, what he described as Jack's pipe dream, to build that cabin and Big Three Houses. 

He's going to finally get his pipe dream. I thought it was wonderfully done. Teenage Kevin, jokingly saying, "Maybe I'll quit acting and move back to Philadelphia and pound nails like Dad."

He is going to be "just like Dad." Kate told him that he was just like his dad. Rebecca told him that he was just like his dad. Kevin is going to become the new Jack. The first thing was to see that he was able to take care of his kids. He wasn't sure about it, just like Jack. But by the end of the episode, he realized that he could take care of his kids - just like Jack.

I think it's wonderful - so long as he doesn't have a heart attack and die - just like Jack.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, himela said:

Apparently not that much because poor Madison has to drive herself crazy having vomit on her hair for hours because they can't get a nanny to help her. 😶

I guess they figured that out, because they gave the nanny a 2 week vacation.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Since Nicky better knows what she is going through, he should have been the one who caught it, not Kevin. Maybe he was projecting his own guilt?

Nicky did realize something was not okay. In the dinner scene where Cassidy asks Kevin to switch places the camera pans to Nicky who looks up to Cassidy and then aside (to the door). He noticed her hypervigilance another tell-tale sign of PTSD which he later explained to Kevin. I guess he noticed other things too since they spent so much time together. That's why he did not buy the 'accident' and told Kevin what was up and explained to him what he could do and what not. I'm okay with him losing his temper for a moment since Kevin was acting really obtuse. He knows she's a vet with an addiction problem and could have given some thought how the Afghanistan retreat would affect her.

[himela]

10 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I guess they figured that out, because they gave the nanny a 2 week vacation.

There was no nanny when Madison had vomit all day on her hair.

[Crs97]

I have no doubt Kevin got the call, had to wake up Nicky, which woke up Edie, and she immediately told them she had the kids for however long was needed.  I am not concerned about anyone dumping children on her.

I hope he continues to act-maybe take roles to pay for the new business, but his new passion infuses his acting so that he is successful in both.  I think Kevin needs that.

 

[LexieLily]

23 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I have no doubt Kevin got the call, had to wake up Nicky, which woke up Edie, and she immediately told them she had the kids for however long was needed.  I am not concerned about anyone dumping children on her.

I hope he continues to act-maybe take roles to pay for the new business, but his new passion infuses his acting so that he is successful in both.  I think Kevin needs that.

Cassidy was (presumably) conscious in the hospital for the doctors to say she was refusing pain medication, so I'm presuming she was the one to tell the doctors to call Kevin? I'm wondering how it was that Kevin, who isn't a family member or an emergency contact, got that call over the ex-husband/Matty's dad. 

[PRgal]

Does Edie have kids?  Do we know?  And I agree with someone upthread who wondered how famous Kevin is supposed to be.  It’s weird that no one took out their phones when Kevin walked on board with the twins.  I mean, someone must have posted something about cranky Kevin and the babies, right?   That would go viral?